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2018-01-20 Staff Meeting

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  1. [2018-01-20 13:05:25] → Joined channel #bs12meeting
  2. [2018-01-20 13:05:25] * Channel mode is +Jnrt 5
  3. [2018-01-20 13:05:25] * Channel timestamp is 1452278484
  4. [2018-01-20 13:05:25] * ChanServ set +o ItsMeTheHolder
  5. [2018-01-20 13:05:30] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I can throw a prompt question if you want
  6. [2018-01-20 13:05:46] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> no this is fine, just wanted to make sure i wasn't speaking out of turn
  7. [2018-01-20 13:05:59] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ahh alrighty
  8. [2018-01-20 13:07:26] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Well ummm...no one wants to say anything on this?
  9. [2018-01-20 13:07:45] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> On fire
  10. [2018-01-20 13:07:53] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> What's the other topics real quick?
  11. [2018-01-20 13:07:53] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Bit too broad for me to talk about you know. I.E What about it.
  12. [2018-01-20 13:07:58] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So I can know if there's a more relevant one
  13. [2018-01-20 13:08:00] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> yeah, can we narrow it down a bit
  14. [2018-01-20 13:08:08] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I don't want to steal from the other topics if a thing is relevant to them
  15. [2018-01-20 13:08:13] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> yeah can we narrow it
  16. [2018-01-20 13:08:15] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Shrug. Server's ticking over well. People are playing and most slots are taken in peak rounds.
  17. [2018-01-20 13:08:18] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> what state do we want to talk about? admin image? setting? playerbase attitude?
  18. [2018-01-20 13:08:20] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Besides that IDGAF.
  19. [2018-01-20 13:09:06] <DiscordBridge> <Levyafan> kinda ingame so don't expect me to be that active
  20. [2018-01-20 13:09:08] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Server itself is healthy, people are antsy about things as usual
  21. [2018-01-20 13:09:17] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Some strife with Headmin fiat
  22. [2018-01-20 13:09:26] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (State of the Server isn't that crazy a question we do it every time) As in how do you think the server is currently doing. The other topics are the Server Poll and then a discussion on Server Direction (which holds a few things to it), the No AI Test, Centralized Punishment, and the Wiki
  23. [2018-01-20 13:09:42] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Every other time I wait for others to start saying stuff 😛
  24. [2018-01-20 13:09:54] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> admin image would be a cool topic...
  25. [2018-01-20 13:09:54] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> could we talk about it later @ThatOneGuy ?
  26. [2018-01-20 13:10:11] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> right now i think Bay's pretty strong; at least as strong as my heyday right after Luna, and I hope you realize that's a huge compliment. If things were to continue as they were right now indefinitely I'd be just fine
  27. [2018-01-20 13:10:15] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Are we talking about the marines in the state of the server or the server direction bit.
  28. [2018-01-20 13:10:23] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> to clarify, that's re: setting, current admin policy, etc
  29. [2018-01-20 13:10:31] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Sure (a PM of that would've been neat gosh)
  30. [2018-01-20 13:10:37] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Also note this is being logged as usual for public release
  31. [2018-01-20 13:10:40] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Thanks
  32. [2018-01-20 13:10:40] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Server Direction Eckles
  33. [2018-01-20 13:10:53] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> get me in the reddit screenshot
  34. [2018-01-20 13:10:54] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> etc etc
  35. [2018-01-20 13:11:01] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> As for general stuff then, as most other people have said, we got an alrightish pop on high. Can be uber empty on low but that's kinda to be expected. If we ignore forums everything seems pretty peachy in game, even when stuff is removed and added that's controversial
  36. [2018-01-20 13:11:43] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Is this where we talk about @masterrbc 's survey stuff?
  37. [2018-01-20 13:11:43] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> that's a good point, regarding the forums: we still have a wild disparity between public sentiment in-game and public sentiment on the forums
  38. [2018-01-20 13:11:53] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Consider ingame isn't really considered a platform to state your opinions
  39. [2018-01-20 13:12:05] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> I'm not really surprised on that front
  40. [2018-01-20 13:12:19] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> You missed the point a bit.
  41. [2018-01-20 13:12:22] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> yeah, the forums and the game are almost like
  42. [2018-01-20 13:12:22] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> :B
  43. [2018-01-20 13:12:27] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> for two different servers
  44. [2018-01-20 13:12:34] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> okay, but opinions *are* expressed on the server, frequently in fact
  45. [2018-01-20 13:12:44] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> and when they are, i note that they are considerably more positive than on the forums
  46. [2018-01-20 13:12:44] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> yeah what do you think dsay is for
  47. [2018-01-20 13:12:49] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> @masterrbc Are you here to talk about that btw?
  48. [2018-01-20 13:12:50] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> and from players who i never see on said forums
  49. [2018-01-20 13:13:06] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @ThatOneGuy BC mentioned this meeting would be at 5am for him and he probably wouldn't be here.
  50. [2018-01-20 13:13:06] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> But
  51. [2018-01-20 13:13:12] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Pinging him might work if you're lucky
  52. [2018-01-20 13:13:31] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I think it's a given there are a lot of people who just play without going onto the forums and, generally are happy to just play without getting involved in all that guff.
  53. [2018-01-20 13:13:33] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> To take a recent example, AI test. People disliked the idea a lot on forums, but when I played and observed during the period I didn't notice a lack of pop or as people say, loads of groaning and moaning in dsay or ooc. Things were normal.
  54. [2018-01-20 13:13:45] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> A lot of our playerbase is fairly casual pop in have fun pop out.
  55. [2018-01-20 13:13:50] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Just tuning in from work to mention staff meetings at this same time every time sucks kbai
  56. [2018-01-20 13:14:03] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> tbf @Eckles_Fire, imo it's the ideal way to play. I barely pay attention to the setting at all - I literally didn't even notice the marines were removed until i heard that the forum thread about it had salt
  57. [2018-01-20 13:14:12] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Because the AI players weren't playing @Shadow_Of_Man
  58. [2018-01-20 13:14:13] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> AI missing is just no AI round but constantly
  59. [2018-01-20 13:14:18] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Not a big surprise
  60. [2018-01-20 13:14:33] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> You probably didn’t notice marines were removed because you didn’t play them tbd
  61. [2018-01-20 13:14:37] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> tbf *
  62. [2018-01-20 13:14:38] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> that too!
  63. [2018-01-20 13:14:41] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @Earthcrusher For you sure,but when it's something you played on the regular it's a bit different. Sorta like if you played supply assistant a lot and suddenly it was gone.
  64. [2018-01-20 13:14:48] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> anyway since BC never posted my response to his poll in his responses thread and since I talked about this at length I'm just going to put it here. :^)
  65. [2018-01-20 13:14:50] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Right because I think everyone feels the best place to talk about how they feel is in a medium that's usually used for quick salt about how they died that gets (for all intents and purposes) wiped after the round
  66. [2018-01-20 13:14:51] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> but their effect on my characters was also totally negligible
  67. [2018-01-20 13:14:56] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/274952400358473728/404353120081018891/Untitled_1.pdf
  68. [2018-01-20 13:15:10] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> >in pdf form
  69. [2018-01-20 13:15:11] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> ok..
  70. [2018-01-20 13:15:14] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> let's crack it open lads
  71. [2018-01-20 13:15:18] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> fully operational battlestation etc
  72. [2018-01-20 13:15:25] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> As with most things like that it's generally a case of "Well did I interact with x a lot" Not really, meh, don't notice.
  73. [2018-01-20 13:15:27] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Man that's gonna be
  74. [2018-01-20 13:15:38] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> I just swapped my Marine character over to Fleet and carried on.
  75. [2018-01-20 13:15:41] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> E.G. Given what I mainly play the removal of salvage technicians wouldn't be very noticeable.
  76. [2018-01-20 13:15:50] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> We could remove the science department with that logic tbh
  77. [2018-01-20 13:15:57] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> We are removing the science department
  78. [2018-01-20 13:16:00] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Most people aren’t REALLY affected by it
  79. [2018-01-20 13:16:04] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Yeah NT's being removed apparently.
  80. [2018-01-20 13:16:04] <NanoTrasen_Inc> Ai removed?
  81. [2018-01-20 13:16:09] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> NT is being replaced
  82. [2018-01-20 13:16:10] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> The people who leave when you remove what they play aren't on to complain it's not there as muc
  83. [2018-01-20 13:16:12] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Oh. God we’re stupid as fuck then.
  84. [2018-01-20 13:16:14] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> With a bunch of loose contractors
  85. [2018-01-20 13:16:15] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> No NT that was last week
  86. [2018-01-20 13:16:16] <NanoTrasen_Inc> Obvious one week for a bottle.
  87. [2018-01-20 13:16:27] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I only found out ingame. Communication has been..Not great.
  88. [2018-01-20 13:16:33] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I've been discussing that and mulling over don't jump to the end of it
  89. [2018-01-20 13:16:38] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> huh, i had no clue
  90. [2018-01-20 13:16:38] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I'm awake hi guys
  91. [2018-01-20 13:16:39] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> And yeah crazy how people upset with a decision won’t play afterwards
  92. [2018-01-20 13:16:39] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> @F-Tang Steve They removed Exodus yet I am still here 😉
  93. [2018-01-20 13:16:43] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I set an alarm
  94. [2018-01-20 13:16:58] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @Shadow_Of_Man do you go play on the server often?
  95. [2018-01-20 13:17:04] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @ThatOneGuy I only found out yesterday when ZB mentioned in dsay that he's working on removing NT for you.
  96. [2018-01-20 13:17:04] <NanoTrasen_Inc> Its still think zb.
  97. [2018-01-20 13:17:19] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Reasonably yes. Mostly observing tho, cause Torch playstyle isn't my fave.
  98. [2018-01-20 13:17:21] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> So I mean, you've got people working at it code wise it's a bit disingenous to say you're only mulling it over and discussing it.
  99. [2018-01-20 13:17:29] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> >and, as well, our staff suffer issues with becoming non-playing or community-only which, quite simply, results in a disconnect with the playing body and for many, a sense of becoming an outsider, despite being empowered.
  100. [2018-01-20 13:17:32] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> i agree @spooky
  101. [2018-01-20 13:17:35] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @Shadow_Of_Man which shows my point really
  102. [2018-01-20 13:17:51] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> That people don't play?
  103. [2018-01-20 13:17:52] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @ParadoxSpace I don't fuck around
  104. [2018-01-20 13:18:01] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Well, not like ZB is staff or working on his code on staff instruction, is he?
  105. [2018-01-20 13:18:03] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Signed it any everything
  106. [2018-01-20 13:18:05] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> this is almost academic spook
  107. [2018-01-20 13:18:07] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> god damn
  108. [2018-01-20 13:18:12] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Yes he's working on a PR for it but that doesn't mean A. it will have a ton of support or B. if there isn't a better option like just replacing the organization
  109. [2018-01-20 13:18:17] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> spook's got a+ feedback always
  110. [2018-01-20 13:18:18] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Well yes since the argument was “people on the server are happy with the server”
  111. [2018-01-20 13:18:24] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> When they say "Working on removing NT for TOG" I sorta only have one way to take that.
  112. [2018-01-20 13:18:25] <NanoTrasen_Inc> Sorta spoil our shit.
  113. [2018-01-20 13:18:25] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ZB asked to help with it and I said sure
  114. [2018-01-20 13:18:28] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> "I don't see people crying about it ingame, so the people on the forums either aren't playing or don't count for our actual players"
  115. [2018-01-20 13:18:31] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> i think staff becoming non-players is
  116. [2018-01-20 13:18:33] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> a big issue
  117. [2018-01-20 13:18:37] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> agreed
  118. [2018-01-20 13:18:37] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> well, mostly game staff
  119. [2018-01-20 13:18:39] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> devs are ok
  120. [2018-01-20 13:18:43] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @Shadow_Of_Man that people who don't like changes aren't playing so are less likely to go on to complain and stuff
  121. [2018-01-20 13:18:44] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Anyway the main issue there is a genuine lack of communication.
  122. [2018-01-20 13:18:45] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> headmin and devs can get by imo
  123. [2018-01-20 13:18:48] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @ParadoxSpace I agree with that
  124. [2018-01-20 13:18:53] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I don't think headmin has that excuse
  125. [2018-01-20 13:19:02] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Since they're making decisions about the server as a whole
  126. [2018-01-20 13:19:06] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> Yeah.
  127. [2018-01-20 13:19:13] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Headmin to me does when they're not using fiat constantly
  128. [2018-01-20 13:19:20] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> but they have the senior staff who - don't hit me - *should* be playing, and can feed him information
  129. [2018-01-20 13:19:28] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> and if they are going to be reelected they should be playing
  130. [2018-01-20 13:19:29] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> >There is no hidden staff cavern where ToG wears a skeletor outfit and cackles about hoarding all of the juicy staff threads.
  131. [2018-01-20 13:19:30] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> kek
  132. [2018-01-20 13:19:32] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> He shouldn't be fed information
  133. [2018-01-20 13:19:35] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I haven't used it that much..
  134. [2018-01-20 13:19:39] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i mean it's not ideal, i'd prefer the guy in charge is actually playing the game
  135. [2018-01-20 13:19:48] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> but if i'm being honest i think headmin is a meaningless position anyhow
  136. [2018-01-20 13:19:53] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> There isn't any feeding going on.
  137. [2018-01-20 13:20:02] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I try to play but I also have had some shitty shit been popping up IRL that I've had to deal with
  138. [2018-01-20 13:20:04] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> so just
  139. [2018-01-20 13:20:05] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> havne't
  140. [2018-01-20 13:20:06] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> I feel like all staff should play or at least be notably present on the server, especially head and senior staff
  141. [2018-01-20 13:20:11] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Information being fed is a good way to get biased opinion
  142. [2018-01-20 13:20:14] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Being active on the server is a requirement of being an admin so being the head admin should have those requirements too
  143. [2018-01-20 13:20:25] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I don't remember the last time senior staff was consulted for any information.
  144. [2018-01-20 13:20:46] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I think it was...two weeks ago maybe?
  145. [2018-01-20 13:20:52] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> When we were talking about the rough polling numbers
  146. [2018-01-20 13:20:57] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Although @ThatOneGuy if you want to do the skeletor outfit thing I think we can make it an excellent reddit thread. Maybe write a whole episode of dialog.
  147. [2018-01-20 13:21:00] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> There are very few people here that I'd say would be able to unbiasedly provide information, if any
  148. [2018-01-20 13:21:00] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> You said it was just for your use
  149. [2018-01-20 13:21:06] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Unpopular opinion time - If people who dislike changes stop playing yet our pop stays alright...does it matter that much? Yes we are losing people that may have been playing for ages, but if they are stopping because of one change than that's their decision, change happens. This goes for me, as I
  150. [2018-01-20 13:21:06] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> say I disliked Torch, especially initially, but I stayed on and continued playing and adapting characters. (Took me too long to type this so this answer is gonna seem out of place :/ )
  151. [2018-01-20 13:21:06] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Oh yes
  152. [2018-01-20 13:21:07] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And you'd figure out how to use the data
  153. [2018-01-20 13:21:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And distribute jt
  154. [2018-01-20 13:21:12] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> That's it, TOG, I'm getting my time machine and voting for Xales.
  155. [2018-01-20 13:21:13] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> *it
  156. [2018-01-20 13:21:26] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Crush I was meaning that it isnt complete numbers
  157. [2018-01-20 13:21:28] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> hiterally litler up here
  158. [2018-01-20 13:21:28] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I mean tog and Xales are equal in consulting so
  159. [2018-01-20 13:21:31] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and theres still votes coming in
  160. [2018-01-20 13:21:31] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> “Fuck our players we’ll get new ones” basically
  161. [2018-01-20 13:21:34] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Loving it
  162. [2018-01-20 13:21:36] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> There's no evil
  163. [2018-01-20 13:21:37] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> Yep
  164. [2018-01-20 13:21:39] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> What skip said.
  165. [2018-01-20 13:21:42] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I won't delay you guys but I'm currently just making a coffee and waking up so I'll be about ten minutes before I sit down at the laptop and contribute
  166. [2018-01-20 13:21:42] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Ditto
  167. [2018-01-20 13:21:48] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> Lovely attitude
  168. [2018-01-20 13:21:52] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> I’m so sickened by how we look at our players now.
  169. [2018-01-20 13:21:56] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> This is a public log by the way
  170. [2018-01-20 13:21:58] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I thought it closed now
  171. [2018-01-20 13:21:58] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> So that's nice
  172. [2018-01-20 13:22:03] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i don't think "fuck the players" is a healthy attitude. but equally unhealthy is attempting to appeal to people who are inconsolable
  173. [2018-01-20 13:22:05] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> It was up for two weeks or whatever
  174. [2018-01-20 13:22:13] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> which we have to be fair here, is true of several vocal people on the forums
  175. [2018-01-20 13:22:14] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> If you don't like the changes get out would also sum this up
  176. [2018-01-20 13:22:18] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> "Fuck the players" is a toxic atitude and if you feel that way you have no right to be staff.
  177. [2018-01-20 13:22:22] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Steve I was meaning when I talked to seniors about the early numbers
  178. [2018-01-20 13:22:24] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> Exactly.
  179. [2018-01-20 13:22:24] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Can we have some order here?
  180. [2018-01-20 13:22:25] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Or no? I'm not saying fuck our players, I'm saying "Ok people are leaving, people are also staying and contributing to the server". We can't work for everyone.
  181. [2018-01-20 13:22:25] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> We're here to serve the players
  182. [2018-01-20 13:22:28] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> >As an odd artifact of human psychology, non-playing game users are often far more emotionally
  183. [2018-01-20 13:22:28] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> invested in discussions on policy and features than playing game users. Indeed they are demonstrably
  184. [2018-01-20 13:22:28] <DiscordBridge> <[SYSTEM]> full message from ParadoxSpace: https://ptpb.pw/ALvfF_RMBCdZ4P6Wo7IZi1gk35oI
  185. [2018-01-20 13:22:29] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> One at a time for a minute.
  186. [2018-01-20 13:22:33] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> this was a really good block
  187. [2018-01-20 13:22:33] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> The players are our lively hood, they are the reason we even have a game.
  188. [2018-01-20 13:22:38] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> And to reiterate, if you feel that is what my approach to players is then you are dead wrong
  189. [2018-01-20 13:22:40] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I think putting the staff-player divide that high is a bad thing. Juuust think of yourself as a player who does staff things.
  190. [2018-01-20 13:22:43] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> that being said can we ease down on the sensationalism? who said "fuck the players"?
  191. [2018-01-20 13:22:45] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Also guys chill out a little bit please
  192. [2018-01-20 13:22:49] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Exactly, EC
  193. [2018-01-20 13:22:49] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> let's not turn this into a shouting match
  194. [2018-01-20 13:22:59] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Anyway on the point of staff on the server.
  195. [2018-01-20 13:23:03] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Applying brakes.
  196. [2018-01-20 13:23:13] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Brakes applied move on.
  197. [2018-01-20 13:23:18] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> One sorta very frustrating thing I keep seeing is I log in, and see 5-6 unanswered tickets that're 40 minutes old with 2-3 staff on, playing.
  198. [2018-01-20 13:23:20] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Only valuing the opinions of staff because you don't think any players currently have opinions worth listening to is just as bad.
  199. [2018-01-20 13:23:21] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> And just not answering tickets.
  200. [2018-01-20 13:23:32] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Ok, we'll move on
  201. [2018-01-20 13:23:39] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Not saying move on, just calm down
  202. [2018-01-20 13:23:41] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> It's sorta a constant thing now, there's a few people who....Just don't seem to be bothering handling stuff?
  203. [2018-01-20 13:23:59] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Yeah @Eckles_Fire has a great point there.
  204. [2018-01-20 13:24:02] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> You know I get that you can't grab *every* ticket in a timely manner.
  205. [2018-01-20 13:24:02] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I agree that there is some staff who fail to actually help
  206. [2018-01-20 13:24:07] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's one thing when staff don't log on
  207. [2018-01-20 13:24:09] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> agreed. i swear when i'm online and eckles isn't, i'm handling like 75% of the tickets
  208. [2018-01-20 13:24:11] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But some log on and just don't even
  209. [2018-01-20 13:24:13] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Do anything
  210. [2018-01-20 13:24:16] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> They just sit afk
  211. [2018-01-20 13:24:20] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> But I sincierely doubt that you've been so busy you couldn't respond to a ticket within a 40 minute timeframe.
  212. [2018-01-20 13:24:22] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Or ignore that tickets are open
  213. [2018-01-20 13:24:29] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I'm mainly talking about people who're playing than are AFK.
  214. [2018-01-20 13:24:32] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Same, aside from the trial mods we treat like slaves because yay new blood
  215. [2018-01-20 13:24:33] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> If it's particular people every round tell staff man?? Otherwise it might be as easy as missing tickets.
  216. [2018-01-20 13:24:33] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> You're AFK no biggie.
  217. [2018-01-20 13:24:43] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> But I routinely find myself having to be the only one who's playing who'll touch the damn tickets.
  218. [2018-01-20 13:24:45] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> timeliness is a huge weakness in our staff team. there are enormous delays that are completely nonsensical
  219. [2018-01-20 13:24:47] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> And that's not great.
  220. [2018-01-20 13:25:03] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I get it you wanna take a round off from that stuff hit the deadmin button.
  221. [2018-01-20 13:25:09] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> or stealth
  222. [2018-01-20 13:25:14] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Stealth isn't for that.
  223. [2018-01-20 13:25:18] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> The trialmods are a different thing, IMO.
  224. [2018-01-20 13:25:18] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Nah SoM I’ve seen admins straight up go “man I wish we had trialmods” when a ticket comes up and nobody answers it for several minutes
  225. [2018-01-20 13:25:29] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> If you're on the staffwho list and not afk you should be handling things.
  226. [2018-01-20 13:25:34] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Oh, from who?
  227. [2018-01-20 13:25:48] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I've said "I wish we had trialmods" myself but not to then ignore it
  228. [2018-01-20 13:25:50] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Just to say
  229. [2018-01-20 13:25:56] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> "I wish I didn't have to handle this *right now*"
  230. [2018-01-20 13:26:01] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And then proceed to do it
  231. [2018-01-20 13:26:14] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Proceed to handle it, that is
  232. [2018-01-20 13:26:17] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I use stealth as a way to show I'm not able to do any big stuff but I can grab little stuff that comes up
  233. [2018-01-20 13:26:18] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> That’s different from just not doing anything or even delegating it to someone
  234. [2018-01-20 13:26:35] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> the question is: who said that and then ignored the ticket
  235. [2018-01-20 13:26:39] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> ^
  236. [2018-01-20 13:26:45] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i think we really need to be promoting a new culture of calling people out
  237. [2018-01-20 13:26:47] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> It was SoM actually.
  238. [2018-01-20 13:26:49] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> don't let anyone get away with something like that
  239. [2018-01-20 13:26:50] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> i agree with EC
  240. [2018-01-20 13:27:01] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I also agree with /EC
  241. [2018-01-20 13:27:03] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> OK, well I don't recall doing that ever :/
  242. [2018-01-20 13:27:03] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> by far if we had a callout culture problems would've been solved awhile ago
  243. [2018-01-20 13:27:05] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Anyway I think people need to put a spot more effort into handling tickets overall instead of just ignoring them for ages. Sometimes you can't grab it straight away, that's fine, no issue there, but there are too many cases of downright ignoring tickets.
  244. [2018-01-20 13:27:10] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> How about
  245. [2018-01-20 13:27:13] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Also.... "I wish we had trialmods" is a bad attitude because they should be supervised anyway.
  246. [2018-01-20 13:27:18] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> We just talk to the person
  247. [2018-01-20 13:27:24] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i'll admit i'll sometimes let a few tickets slip by if i've been handling a chain of them
  248. [2018-01-20 13:27:28] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> but i only do that if there are other staff on
  249. [2018-01-20 13:27:28] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Part of it is our political climate
  250. [2018-01-20 13:27:29] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Also I don’t call people out on fear of being told off because it didn’t happen or that’s not how it happened etc etc
  251. [2018-01-20 13:27:33] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Callout culture is obnoxious and can promote toxicity
  252. [2018-01-20 13:27:38] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> So either answering tickets or supervising a trialmod doing so, you should be working either way, IMO.
  253. [2018-01-20 13:27:39] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I mean you're trying to handle the tickets there's no issue there.
  254. [2018-01-20 13:27:46] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Or guys, or- you see something that another staffmember does that is wrong, and you tell the Staff Manager
  255. [2018-01-20 13:27:47] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ok well when i said "call out" i hope it was implied that you shouldn't be a douche about it
  256. [2018-01-20 13:27:49] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> but yeah, bring it up
  257. [2018-01-20 13:27:55] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> you don't want to call people out who you may be relying on to vote foor you
  258. [2018-01-20 13:28:01] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Also on the point of handling stuff.
  259. [2018-01-20 13:28:11] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> There's been *two* forum complaints sitting there for a week.
  260. [2018-01-20 13:28:20] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> I brought it up several times in staff channel and everyone but the few staff I se active constantly basically ignored it
  261. [2018-01-20 13:28:23] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I grabbed a third, but noone else seems to be bothering with 'em.
  262. [2018-01-20 13:28:29] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> we're intended to be given guides on how to forum moderate yet i've seen no guide forthcoming
  263. [2018-01-20 13:28:34] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> and i understand it's been waited on for a while
  264. [2018-01-20 13:28:35] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So, how about this for a resolution to the topic:
  265. [2018-01-20 13:28:35] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe>
  266. [2018-01-20 13:28:35] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> **If you see someone not pulling weight despite being online and not deadminned, report it to the Staff Manager or talk to them about it.**
  267. [2018-01-20 13:28:40] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> ^
  268. [2018-01-20 13:28:42] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Come forward to the immediate person responsible.
  269. [2018-01-20 13:28:47] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Don't come forward to staffroom
  270. [2018-01-20 13:28:47] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I like that
  271. [2018-01-20 13:28:56] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If it fails to be handled
  272. [2018-01-20 13:29:01] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Then escalate to public scenes
  273. [2018-01-20 13:29:17] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But don't make your first step going to staff-room, a setting which requires seeing your complaint when it happens
  274. [2018-01-20 13:29:59] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I think we can agree call out is specifically for not being afraid to call them out to the person in charge
  275. [2018-01-20 13:30:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> i.e. Spook or the Staff Manager
  276. [2018-01-20 13:30:09] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Not going hey @Crushtoe you lazy fuck
  277. [2018-01-20 13:30:15] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> I didn’t say that.
  278. [2018-01-20 13:30:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I know you didn't
  279. [2018-01-20 13:30:21] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I'm using hyperbole
  280. [2018-01-20 13:30:21] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> He's exaggerating
  281. [2018-01-20 13:30:28] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> for example, yeah
  282. [2018-01-20 13:30:30] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ^
  283. [2018-01-20 13:30:37] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> It's not something anyone actually said
  284. [2018-01-20 13:30:38] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Which is unnecessary when I just “called someone out” for it.
  285. [2018-01-20 13:30:44] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> But yeah.
  286. [2018-01-20 13:30:49] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Actually I might have called crushtoe a lazy fuck sometime
  287. [2018-01-20 13:30:54] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> >sometime
  288. [2018-01-20 13:30:58] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> You call me that once an hour
  289. [2018-01-20 13:31:02] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> crushtoe you lazy fuck
  290. [2018-01-20 13:31:04] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Stop being a lazy fuck then
  291. [2018-01-20 13:31:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Anyway that's irrelevant
  292. [2018-01-20 13:31:08] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Can I call @Snapshot a lazy fuck?
  293. [2018-01-20 13:31:11] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So, can we agree on that?
  294. [2018-01-20 13:31:16] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> What about if there are consistent issues that you report and nothing seems to be done and the behaviour continues?
  295. [2018-01-20 13:31:18] <DiscordBridge> <Noble Caos> Sorry, I was eating dinner, care to catch me up?
  296. [2018-01-20 13:31:20] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Anyway break time over wheee
  297. [2018-01-20 13:31:23] <DiscordBridge> <Snapshot> Wow
  298. [2018-01-20 13:31:28] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> File a staff complaint, I'd say @F-Tang Steve
  299. [2018-01-20 13:31:29] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Then escalate to the public theater of shame, Steve.
  300. [2018-01-20 13:31:33] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Or talk to another Senior.
  301. [2018-01-20 13:31:42] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> What if it was said in staff room though? You can't put that public
  302. [2018-01-20 13:31:42] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> go over that person, go up the chian of command
  303. [2018-01-20 13:31:46] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Put something in Staff-room btw, just visa vis some unhealthy opinion that is forming of me.
  304. [2018-01-20 13:31:46] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Another senior is definitely an option too
  305. [2018-01-20 13:31:52] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> I guess so but that leads to me not being comfortable with how I’ve been spoken to over this kind of thing in the past
  306. [2018-01-20 13:31:56] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> It would come under staff misconduct, correct?
  307. [2018-01-20 13:31:57] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Putting it in staff-room *is* the public theater
  308. [2018-01-20 13:32:04] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Or would it be neglection of duties?
  309. [2018-01-20 13:32:05] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Ah, roger.
  310. [2018-01-20 13:32:07] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> If we're all mature enough we can handle someone disagreeing with us in a public forum
  311. [2018-01-20 13:32:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's taking it from a closed case between you, the person, and the senior
  312. [2018-01-20 13:32:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And putting it into a more open theater of the staff
  313. [2018-01-20 13:32:22] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Staff room goes back to someone having to see it
  314. [2018-01-20 13:32:26] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> (Staffrom is public for a given value of "public")
  315. [2018-01-20 13:32:27] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> And that's very unlikely
  316. [2018-01-20 13:32:59] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> We also have the staff section of the forums
  317. [2018-01-20 13:33:05] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> For more sensitive matters
  318. [2018-01-20 13:33:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ^
  319. [2018-01-20 13:33:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Big hitters should probably be done in a medium that isn't time-sensitive like Discord
  320. [2018-01-20 13:33:22] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Where if you miss *the moment*
  321. [2018-01-20 13:33:26] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> You're out of the loop
  322. [2018-01-20 13:33:35] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I agree with Crush
  323. [2018-01-20 13:33:39] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> On a similar note, can we talk about staff complaints made by players and those and how those are handled?
  324. [2018-01-20 13:33:58] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Since there's not concensus on "being a dick while a staff member" is on there.
  325. [2018-01-20 13:34:03] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> god, yes, please
  326. [2018-01-20 13:34:07] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i'm so sick of seeing that being thrown out
  327. [2018-01-20 13:34:08] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Being a dick period is a rule
  328. [2018-01-20 13:34:09] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I feel it should
  329. [2018-01-20 13:34:15] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> For concerns of staff behaviour, I think it is among the few things, at least when reported internally that should stay internal until a public dispute arises, with regards to the whole
  330. [2018-01-20 13:34:16] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And staff shouldn't be asswipes
  331. [2018-01-20 13:34:17] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> yeah i'm tired of 'no make it a player complaint they didn't abuse their powers'
  332. [2018-01-20 13:34:20] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> yes but they're being a cock
  333. [2018-01-20 13:34:25] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> as a staff
  334. [2018-01-20 13:34:25] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> invisible hand visage we have
  335. [2018-01-20 13:34:28] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> ANywhere you're recognisable as staff that something happens should be a staff complaint.
  336. [2018-01-20 13:34:36] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Ditto
  337. [2018-01-20 13:34:41] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> If you fuck up in game as your character that's a player complaint since you're not as staff there.
  338. [2018-01-20 13:34:51] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> If you're a dick in DSAY that's a staff complaint because there you're staff.
  339. [2018-01-20 13:35:03] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> As well as OOC and ahelps
  340. [2018-01-20 13:35:03] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Anywhere something special distinguishes you as staff
  341. [2018-01-20 13:35:13] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> IIRC you can hide ckey in dsay while ghosted.
  342. [2018-01-20 13:35:14] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> So a colour, or a forum tag, or anything like that.
  343. [2018-01-20 13:35:15] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> if I call one of my service reps a shithead, guess what, i get fired. because i did it while representing the company as a member of the sales team
  344. [2018-01-20 13:35:19] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> The only reason we did that was cause of the Strike System as I recall
  345. [2018-01-20 13:35:23] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Which we don't use anymore
  346. [2018-01-20 13:35:26] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Actually yeah
  347. [2018-01-20 13:35:29] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> they don't let me off the hook just because i didn't abuse my mondelez power
  348. [2018-01-20 13:35:33] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> You're still speaking OOCly in deadchat @Techhead
  349. [2018-01-20 13:35:41] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Which goes back to your behaviour as staff, not as a character
  350. [2018-01-20 13:35:42] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Now everything is handled as staff complaints against staff
  351. [2018-01-20 13:35:58] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I feel like deadchat is something where we can trust the senior staff to be not a sack of potatoes
  352. [2018-01-20 13:36:03] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And apply reasoning
  353. [2018-01-20 13:36:08] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> I'm saying if they just see character name they don't know you're staff.
  354. [2018-01-20 13:36:23] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> HOWEVER, if it's on github AND you're NOT on there with dev OR tag powers that's not staff since you don't have any staff bling. Or should it be staff since it's reasonable people would know you are staff?
  355. [2018-01-20 13:36:24] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> and hoo boy people love to call that out like you're doing it on purpose
  356. [2018-01-20 13:36:28] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Deadchat is a mix of IC and OOC so
  357. [2018-01-20 13:36:30] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Can I just bring something up about staff complaints?
  358. [2018-01-20 13:36:32] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We can just apply reasoning
  359. [2018-01-20 13:36:45] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> @F-Tang Steve i think you're complicating it. if you fuck up and you're staff, it's a staff issue
  360. [2018-01-20 13:37:02] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> But yes, the rule should be "if you can tell they're staff w/o meta-ing, open a staff complaint"
  361. [2018-01-20 13:37:05] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> I agree.
  362. [2018-01-20 13:37:12] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> There seems to be this attitude towards "I've recieved a forum warning, he's absolutetely wrong and abusing his power" is bullshit reason for a staff complaint with regards to Comm Mods.
  363. [2018-01-20 13:37:13] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I want to get being an ass in a github comment nailed down
  364. [2018-01-20 13:37:27] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I think it should be taken up with Comm Manager, not directly into a staff complaint
  365. [2018-01-20 13:37:35] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @masterrbc maybe let people appeal them rather than a staff complaint
  366. [2018-01-20 13:37:43] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> our github is part of our community, that's totally fair
  367. [2018-01-20 13:37:56] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> no being a dick, no passive aggressive or soapbox PRs, etc etc
  368. [2018-01-20 13:38:01] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Ok so being an ass in github is the same as bieng an ass in discord or the forums.
  369. [2018-01-20 13:38:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Anyone mind if we briefly stop to explain how staff discipline *currently* works?
  370. [2018-01-20 13:38:17] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Yep
  371. [2018-01-20 13:38:18] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> i don't
  372. [2018-01-20 13:38:18] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> For a refresher?
  373. [2018-01-20 13:38:20] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> hit us
  374. [2018-01-20 13:38:23] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> lay it on thick daddyo
  375. [2018-01-20 13:38:24] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Currently, there is no strike system.
  376. [2018-01-20 13:38:25] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I think that'd be good, please do
  377. [2018-01-20 13:38:30] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The system is, if we notice you've been toxic or abusive
  378. [2018-01-20 13:38:35] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> (Also since I’m at work and wanna squeeze this in while I can, I wanna apologize for the angry slightly-blowup earlier, just a thing I’ve felt VERY strongly over recently)
  379. [2018-01-20 13:38:40] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We'll sit down, look over *all* your complaints and issues
  380. [2018-01-20 13:38:43] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And notes we have
  381. [2018-01-20 13:38:47] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And then judge you.
  382. [2018-01-20 13:38:59] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The distinction between staff vs player really existed to say "this is strikable" like tog said
  383. [2018-01-20 13:39:01] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (This is what we did with mkal btw)
  384. [2018-01-20 13:39:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And since we no longer do strikes
  385. [2018-01-20 13:39:15] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And we now look at player complaints too for toxicity
  386. [2018-01-20 13:39:20] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> strikes were a meme anyway
  387. [2018-01-20 13:39:27] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Since we just generally look at how rubbish you've been
  388. [2018-01-20 13:39:31] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> strikes lead to people like Mangled
  389. [2018-01-20 13:39:31] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i do like that, it prevents people from gaming the strike system or trying to lawyer it
  390. [2018-01-20 13:39:44] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It wouldn't hurt to say that anything that isn't IC is a staff complaint
  391. [2018-01-20 13:39:55] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Since the distinction of what we look at is nonexistant
  392. [2018-01-20 13:39:59] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @Crushtoe I feel that the verdict of this should be posted publicly if it was public toxicity. Not just "we investigated" but "we talked and decided that X and Y". I feel this transparency for public facing issues would be hugely helpful for community feeling like we're doing something about these
  393. [2018-01-20 13:39:59] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> complaints.
  394. [2018-01-20 13:39:59] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Agreed
  395. [2018-01-20 13:40:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Ultimately, public comments is hard because
  396. [2018-01-20 13:40:31] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> On one hand you want to be transparent and make sure people know it isn't just a slap on a wrist
  397. [2018-01-20 13:40:38] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But on the other hand you don't want shitlords gloating
  398. [2018-01-20 13:40:49] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i mean, they're going to gloat
  399. [2018-01-20 13:40:57] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Fair, yeah
  400. [2018-01-20 13:40:57] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> is that really a reason to do things behind closed doors
  401. [2018-01-20 13:40:59] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Right now the community feels that we don't do anything when complaints or toxicity happens since it's all behind doors. We need to say that something was done or nothing was done. And if they gloat, that's fine. As long as they're not being dicks about it it's not an issue if they feel good that
  402. [2018-01-20 13:40:59] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> something was done.
  403. [2018-01-20 13:41:03] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> 'shitlords gloating' affects us how?????
  404. [2018-01-20 13:41:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We do *try* to make public comments
  405. [2018-01-20 13:41:06] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Slap the gloaters on the wrist then
  406. [2018-01-20 13:41:07] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> please tell me
  407. [2018-01-20 13:41:11] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I'm not saying we never have because
  408. [2018-01-20 13:41:13] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> my gloats
  409. [2018-01-20 13:41:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's just, that's why sometimes it's a bit obtuse
  410. [2018-01-20 13:41:24] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> like how does 'hahahahaaa earthcrusher got D U N K E D what a SHITMIN'
  411. [2018-01-20 13:41:27] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> affect us in any meaningful way
  412. [2018-01-20 13:41:31] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If you do think "why are you being so dumb in saying it like that"
  413. [2018-01-20 13:41:32] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> the comments will probably end in like
  414. [2018-01-20 13:41:34] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> 7 business days
  415. [2018-01-20 13:41:38] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Then DM one of us
  416. [2018-01-20 13:41:41] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> and the only response i'd have to that would be 🖕
  417. [2018-01-20 13:41:41] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Tell us
  418. [2018-01-20 13:41:43] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> and then i mov eon
  419. [2018-01-20 13:42:05] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Also if you fuck up in public and you're apologising, don't apologies to staff or to the person in private. Apologise in public, admit you fucked up, and move on.
  420. [2018-01-20 13:42:12] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> amen
  421. [2018-01-20 13:42:18] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> You need to acknowlege you were wrong to the community.
  422. [2018-01-20 13:42:26] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> 🙏
  423. [2018-01-20 13:42:43] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> It may be embarassing to do, but if you don't then the community ends up hating you.
  424. [2018-01-20 13:42:55] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> We do make the information available that something has happened
  425. [2018-01-20 13:43:04] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> For example in mkals situation
  426. [2018-01-20 13:43:27] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> gonna move you guys to my phone while i pop in some toaster strudels
  427. [2018-01-20 13:43:36] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> mmmmmmmm
  428. [2018-01-20 13:43:37] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> okay griffers defeated
  429. [2018-01-20 13:43:42] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Not just making it avaliable, but a public thing for it
  430. [2018-01-20 13:43:42] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> so i'll be quiet for a minute
  431. [2018-01-20 13:43:46] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> woo
  432. [2018-01-20 13:43:52] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Putting it in meeting notes isn't enough.
  433. [2018-01-20 13:44:01] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I suppose that I can agree with being more public in sharing action since
  434. [2018-01-20 13:44:07] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> honestly i'd put it right in #news but
  435. [2018-01-20 13:44:13] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Let me figure out how to phrase it
  436. [2018-01-20 13:44:15] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Put what in news?
  437. [2018-01-20 13:44:16] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> that probably is why i'm not the one firing people
  438. [2018-01-20 13:44:16] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Depends where it happened
  439. [2018-01-20 13:44:20] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> nah like
  440. [2018-01-20 13:44:36] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> If it was discord: news. If forums: announcement. If in game: put it in the MOTD/
  441. [2018-01-20 13:44:40] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> actually i came back because i'm obsessive and can't detach myself from media
  442. [2018-01-20 13:44:45] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> With the mka thing (you'll notice we keep referencing it since it's the only case since we abolished strikes)
  443. [2018-01-20 13:44:47] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> can i bring up an example of how to into transparency that we fucked up on
  444. [2018-01-20 13:44:48] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We did put it in news
  445. [2018-01-20 13:44:54] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> @Earthcrusher go on
  446. [2018-01-20 13:44:54] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We just didn't ping it because that's not big header
  447. [2018-01-20 13:44:55] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Go for it EC
  448. [2018-01-20 13:45:19] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> a little while back, early in the no AI trial, I popped a question on #staffcoach, asking for an official word on whether or not players were allowed to build an AI in the round
  449. [2018-01-20 13:45:32] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> To my understanding, they were allowed to
  450. [2018-01-20 13:45:41] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> See I just thought they were and only the *slot* was closed.
  451. [2018-01-20 13:45:48] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i don't remember who spoke to me - it's honestly not that important - but the conversation was moved into #staff-room. there was an objection when i asked for the response to appear on #staffcoach
  452. [2018-01-20 13:45:50] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The No AI discussion frequently mentioned "people can build one anyway if they *really* want one"
  453. [2018-01-20 13:45:52] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> They were weren't they?
  454. [2018-01-20 13:45:55] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i just wanted it to be seen for reference
  455. [2018-01-20 13:45:58] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> they were
  456. [2018-01-20 13:46:01] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> and yes, the admin ruled that it was okay
  457. [2018-01-20 13:46:05] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> we intended it to be that you can build one
  458. [2018-01-20 13:46:13] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> the *point*, guys, was the transparency, not the AI building 😛
  459. [2018-01-20 13:46:14] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But yeah I think I see what you mean in that
  460. [2018-01-20 13:46:19] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Yes, agreed
  461. [2018-01-20 13:46:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We axed the slot but left the question of
  462. [2018-01-20 13:46:24] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If it's fine to even have one
  463. [2018-01-20 13:46:25] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> this is a tiny example, but!
  464. [2018-01-20 13:46:26] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Up in the air
  465. [2018-01-20 13:46:27] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> super secret admin tests
  466. [2018-01-20 13:46:33] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> variable secret
  467. [2018-01-20 13:46:38] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i think that it shows that we need to let go of the impulse to be secretive
  468. [2018-01-20 13:46:47] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> hide information when the player *really* doesn't need to know - like who is the wizard, etc
  469. [2018-01-20 13:46:57] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> but there's nothing wrong with a convo like that in public
  470. [2018-01-20 13:46:59] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I was trying to figure out how to word that EC
  471. [2018-01-20 13:47:08] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Because in-game we won't tell you after a ticket
  472. [2018-01-20 13:47:14] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> "We bapped him" because you may metagame
  473. [2018-01-20 13:47:19] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> right, right
  474. [2018-01-20 13:47:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But you can't metagame an admin being disciplined
  475. [2018-01-20 13:47:22] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (Also Steve we did put it on the forums and in News just didn’t ping everyone)
  476. [2018-01-20 13:47:37] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> There is the thing of some level of respect for privacy which is why we don't throw around notes
  477. [2018-01-20 13:47:44] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (Brb gotta pee)
  478. [2018-01-20 13:47:46] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> I mean being secretive and abrasive with the community is *one* of the reasons that led Bay to the polaris split.
  479. [2018-01-20 13:47:48] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Would now be a good time to shoehorn into my feedback poll?
  480. [2018-01-20 13:47:50] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But there's definitely some wiggle room for publicity
  481. [2018-01-20 13:47:53] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i get that. in this example there was just no reason, whatsoever, for the secrecy
  482. [2018-01-20 13:47:56] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @Chronograph No it wasn't, lol.
  483. [2018-01-20 13:47:58] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i just want it to be something kept in mind
  484. [2018-01-20 13:48:01] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Since we are talking about staff visibility and stuff?
  485. [2018-01-20 13:48:01] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It wasn't secrecy EC as much as
  486. [2018-01-20 13:48:04] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @masterrbc I think so
  487. [2018-01-20 13:48:04] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> No one thought to say it
  488. [2018-01-20 13:48:13] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> LEt's give BC a moment to talk
  489. [2018-01-20 13:48:23] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> yep! no accusations, no names in this case. just an example
  490. [2018-01-20 13:48:26] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> and now... my strudel
  491. [2018-01-20 13:48:38] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> I think we could be a *little* more transparent on ahelps.
  492. [2018-01-20 13:49:00] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> At least on the scale of "thanks for bringing this up" to "why are you ahelping this?"
  493. [2018-01-20 13:49:22] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> (Sorry, you were typing something too.)
  494. [2018-01-20 13:49:41] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Go ahead BC
  495. [2018-01-20 13:52:12] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Okay - So, as you guys know I pinged a lot during this point in time to get my feedback thing into the air for people to see. Staff players have hopefully had a look at the answers provided by the community - which don't 100% quanitfy as the results because I've been busy as hell irl to go through
  496. [2018-01-20 13:52:12] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> them but there is a general consensus from them.
  497. [2018-01-20 13:52:12] <DiscordBridge> <[SYSTEM]> full message from masterrbc: https://ptpb.pw/ANByfLgCIOXV-jLLYUZGTta3Azqp
  498. [2018-01-20 13:52:20] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Sorry, still looking at the replies rn
  499. [2018-01-20 13:53:04] <DiscordBridge> <Levyafan> look, staff or not staff, we're STILL PLAYERS
  500. [2018-01-20 13:53:12] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> ^
  501. [2018-01-20 13:53:13] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> A lot of the community is however fine with out transparency - but only when it relates to sensitive issues. Otherwise there is a general wish for there to be transparency with us between them on the general - Which I can agree with
  502. [2018-01-20 13:53:37] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Can you elaborate on general?
  503. [2018-01-20 13:53:45] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I haven't looked at the spreadsheet in a week or two
  504. [2018-01-20 13:53:51] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I mean, this is why I call non-staff "community members" and not "players" since staff should be players too.
  505. [2018-01-20 13:53:52] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Mind is drawing blanks
  506. [2018-01-20 13:54:06] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We should also be community members too though
  507. [2018-01-20 13:54:12] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> I feel like that's less of a summary of responses and more of a restatement of the questions asked. >>
  508. [2018-01-20 13:54:15] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I guess to put it into words - Maybe we should talk about community related issues in the public staff forum more so than doing it all in general staff
  509. [2018-01-20 13:54:30] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I know a lot of people were upset that I wasn’t sharing the “2.0” stuff but at the same time I didn’t want to present something unfinished to the whole community
  510. [2018-01-20 13:54:33] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> OH SHIT
  511. [2018-01-20 13:54:35] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I was going to mention it earlier but decidedn ot to, but since you're mentioning it
  512. [2018-01-20 13:54:36] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> After this
  513. [2018-01-20 13:54:38] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I said "WITH OUT"
  514. [2018-01-20 13:54:44] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I wanted to say that
  515. [2018-01-20 13:54:44] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> when I meant "WITH OUR****"
  516. [2018-01-20 13:54:53] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> I think everything should be done in the public forum unless there's a reason for secrecy
  517. [2018-01-20 13:54:56] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> After the meeting I'm going to put up some things in PSF about community moderation
  518. [2018-01-20 13:54:59] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> No one's being fired
  519. [2018-01-20 13:55:00] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> Like, by default
  520. [2018-01-20 13:55:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Just some issues with us failing to properly give instruction to 20+ people dumped with the job
  521. [2018-01-20 13:55:15] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Also before it gets way too high in the log @Techhead "Thanks for telling us, we'll look into it" is a template response (so, something like it in reality) to note that the ahelp has been seen and is being handled that everyone should already be giving (or something equivalent) for complaints in
  522. [2018-01-20 13:55:16] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> play. For bugs and questions there's less or no requirement for maintaining round state secrecy, so those are much freer. So we do already give feedback on ahelps - just, the ones that require discretion are supposed to get it. :B
  523. [2018-01-20 13:55:16] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So some clarification needs to be made
  524. [2018-01-20 13:55:26] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Pretty sure we have a rule that stuff has to move to PSF after a while in GSF anways
  525. [2018-01-20 13:55:32] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We don't, TOG.
  526. [2018-01-20 13:55:35] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> What
  527. [2018-01-20 13:55:38] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> We used to then
  528. [2018-01-20 13:55:39] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> This isn't the government
  529. [2018-01-20 13:55:40] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> :/
  530. [2018-01-20 13:55:45] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> There isn't a declassification period
  531. [2018-01-20 13:55:47] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Half related and maybe not relevant, but my issue with public staff primarily is retired staff having access. I'd be almost fine with most gsf stuff happening there though, except mod votes and that, which should stay in gsf.
  532. [2018-01-20 13:55:50] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Bish no it was a thing stop it
  533. [2018-01-20 13:56:03] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @ThatOneGuy the thing is, brainstorming is great to do in public. Brainstorming in public gives some great ideas that you can choose to incorporate. If you present a finished thing all at once it's not as nice as giving a back and forth discussion between the creator and others.
  534. [2018-01-20 13:56:09] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Yeh that was a thing that worked well, although if I recall it was mostly for policy?
  535. [2018-01-20 13:56:14] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> It's policy to do so unless there's a reason not to, although where that's written down if at all IDK.
  536. [2018-01-20 13:56:15] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Side note, why do retired staff have public staff posting?
  537. [2018-01-20 13:56:25] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> IIRC, protocol is "post in a GSF thread that it should hit PSF" and in 24 hours it gets moved.
  538. [2018-01-20 13:56:25] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> I'd prefer retired staff not posting in public staff
  539. [2018-01-20 13:56:26] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> That comes up a lot as a question
  540. [2018-01-20 13:56:27] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> its just weird
  541. [2018-01-20 13:56:29] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Yeah
  542. [2018-01-20 13:56:29] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Yeah we had a timer before things were meant to move to PSF
  543. [2018-01-20 13:56:30] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> As former retired staff... why can they post again
  544. [2018-01-20 13:56:35] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> Agh, phone
  545. [2018-01-20 13:56:35] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> History of former staff being better than community members and deserving of special priviligas
  546. [2018-01-20 13:56:35] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Because staff have voted before to let them keep it D:
  547. [2018-01-20 13:56:37] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Essentially they're respected as having been former staff who are trustworthy
  548. [2018-01-20 13:56:41] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> But can I just say that overall we are looking at a positive light with our transparency and stuff like being honest and down with the players as there was good feedback to it. It's just some people think there needs to be more talk about staff behaviour as well as our attitude towards players
  549. [2018-01-20 13:56:46] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @F-Tang Steve lies
  550. [2018-01-20 13:56:48] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It was decided to be that way like
  551. [2018-01-20 13:56:49] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> A year ago
  552. [2018-01-20 13:56:50] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> 😉
  553. [2018-01-20 13:56:56] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And our use case for PSF doesn't make them an issue
  554. [2018-01-20 13:57:06] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ok i'm back for real and my strudel is delicious
  555. [2018-01-20 13:57:08] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If our use case shifted to be specifically GSF but visible and not just
  556. [2018-01-20 13:57:10] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> GSF-lite
  557. [2018-01-20 13:57:17] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Then they might be a tripping stone
  558. [2018-01-20 13:57:19] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> but yeah iirc the retired staff thing was from Apple Master wasn't it?
  559. [2018-01-20 13:57:26] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I'm going to be going through the results to actually put them into better words and just keep breaking it down and down until we have a more 'clear' result as I'm far from any hard cut answers, if that makes seanse.
  560. [2018-01-20 13:57:27] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Retired staff really are... retired though.
  561. [2018-01-20 13:57:31] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> ^^^
  562. [2018-01-20 13:57:32] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> Yes.
  563. [2018-01-20 13:57:39] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Well except when we have polls and have to go "only current staff vote pls" and then can't verify that that happened anyway because nobody has the rights to look except for like two people.
  564. [2018-01-20 13:57:42] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> if i'm retired from my job
  565. [2018-01-20 13:57:44] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> i can't just like
  566. [2018-01-20 13:57:45] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Actually spook
  567. [2018-01-20 13:57:46] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (Steve the thing is I brainstormed with a number of people and then moved it to staff first so that we could see if we agree on it)
  568. [2018-01-20 13:57:46] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> It's been around for a while afaik. There was a vote at some point to take them off but people voted keep them cause they are respected or w/e
  569. [2018-01-20 13:57:46] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> come into work
  570. [2018-01-20 13:57:49] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> pop into the backroom
  571. [2018-01-20 13:57:50] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's not hard to stop at all
  572. [2018-01-20 13:57:51] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> and start talking shit
  573. [2018-01-20 13:57:59] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> I'd rather see them reintegrate with the general players
  574. [2018-01-20 13:58:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> There's literally an option to disable those with "Retired Staff" from voting
  575. [2018-01-20 13:58:06] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> Yeah
  576. [2018-01-20 13:58:09] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> If they want to vote and take part in staff things they should have either not retired or they should try to join again
  577. [2018-01-20 13:58:09] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Do it
  578. [2018-01-20 13:58:14] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> though let's be real, if we remove retired staff post access those forums will die since it's 90% meyar posting
  579. [2018-01-20 13:58:16] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> hey what's the meeting channel for irc
  580. [2018-01-20 13:58:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The "muh poll cheating" is irrelevant
  581. [2018-01-20 13:58:20] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> i'm tryna get chinsky in here
  582. [2018-01-20 13:58:23] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> #bs12meeting
  583. [2018-01-20 13:58:25] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> We started doing retired staff uhhhhh
  584. [2018-01-20 13:58:26] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> You gotta have the perm
  585. [2018-01-20 13:58:28] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Years ago
  586. [2018-01-20 13:58:34] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Just give them a banner and let them loose kinda thing? They don't need any special privs more than a player
  587. [2018-01-20 13:58:35] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @ThatOneGuy This is another topic altogether. But brainstorming with a group of elite chosen people isn't really what I meant 😛
  588. [2018-01-20 13:58:36] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> They retired
  589. [2018-01-20 13:58:38] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Like during Abi
  590. [2018-01-20 13:58:41] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @ThatOneGuy we can talk later
  591. [2018-01-20 13:58:43] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> the rank has certainly been around forever, i had it when i retired from my first admin period
  592. [2018-01-20 13:58:47] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> I’m not saying don’t respect them I’m just saying don’t treat them like staff
  593. [2018-01-20 13:58:52] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> ^
  594. [2018-01-20 13:58:54] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> May I say a quick thing with extra **bold**?
  595. [2018-01-20 13:58:55] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> And you shouldn’t
  596. [2018-01-20 13:58:56] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I think the idea of the retired staff thing is that they are supposed to be able to voice player opinions to staff in a forum sense? @ThatOneGuy Or is it just a bygone tradition?
  597. [2018-01-20 13:58:56] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> They're community members
  598. [2018-01-20 13:59:04] → chinsky joined (Chinsky@monkey.vault)
  599. [2018-01-20 13:59:04] * chinsky was kicked by ChanServ (You are not permitted to be on this channel.)
  600. [2018-01-20 13:59:04] * ChanServ set channel modes +b *!*@monkey.vault
  601. [2018-01-20 13:59:04] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> To gather attention?
  602. [2018-01-20 13:59:06] → IDTia joined (IDTia@idtia.pw)
  603. [2018-01-20 13:59:06] * IDTia was kicked by ChanServ (You are not permitted to be on this channel.)
  604. [2018-01-20 13:59:06] * ChanServ set channel modes +b *!*@idtia.pw
  605. [2018-01-20 13:59:09] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Go for it crush
  606. [2018-01-20 13:59:13] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> use tripple ***
  607. [2018-01-20 13:59:14] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Crush 👍
  608. [2018-01-20 13:59:23] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> say it in emoji
  609. [2018-01-20 13:59:26] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> "retired admin" was a weird server rank for ages in the past which gave them basically admin rights "but totally don't use them guys :3". That went away, and a few retired staff were very sad about it, so they got forum peeking rights instead of something. IDK it was all very silly and still is.
  610. [2018-01-20 13:59:29] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The current use case for PSF is essentially GSF-lite; rather than PSF being the default, we use it as "this topic means little so it doesn't matter if Retired comment."
  611. [2018-01-20 13:59:31] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> chinsky can't get in
  612. [2018-01-20 13:59:32] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> what do
  613. [2018-01-20 13:59:44] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If we *do* shift to using PSF as GSF but visible instead of lesser GSF
  614. [2018-01-20 13:59:50] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Relevant: https://baystation12.net/forums/threads/re-public-staff-retired-staff-posting-rights.4590/
  615. [2018-01-20 13:59:50] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> oh nvm hi @CHINSKY
  616. [2018-01-20 13:59:51] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> @ParadoxSpace force him to use a modern chat client
  617. [2018-01-20 13:59:51] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Then we would definitely have to revisit letting them communicate
  618. [2018-01-20 13:59:52] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> There’s an IRC channel
  619. [2018-01-20 14:00:00] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But as it stands
  620. [2018-01-20 14:00:04] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> That's really why they're able to.
  621. [2018-01-20 14:00:07] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Vote was 8:7 on keeping their privs
  622. [2018-01-20 14:00:12] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> for some reason I am autobanned whne I join there
  623. [2018-01-20 14:00:14] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It doesn't hurt anything because we treat PSF as the inferior staff forum.
  624. [2018-01-20 14:00:15] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @Shadow_Of_Man but who voted ;0
  625. [2018-01-20 14:00:15] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> I'd like to push for removing the special stuff of retired staff.
  626. [2018-01-20 14:00:16] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> So clearly something that needs a revote imo
  627. [2018-01-20 14:00:18] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> @Crushtoe so: we move most things to a more visible medium and get rid of retired staff posting
  628. [2018-01-20 14:00:20] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> what's the downside
  629. [2018-01-20 14:00:23] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> It was in gsf so *shrug*
  630. [2018-01-20 14:00:24] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> so I'll have to endure this thing
  631. [2018-01-20 14:00:25] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Yeah, someone banned almost everyone from bs12meeting a while back.
  632. [2018-01-20 14:00:32] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> No downside I can think of
  633. [2018-01-20 14:00:35] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We just don't do it yet
  634. [2018-01-20 14:00:42] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Unless you're into secrecy
  635. [2018-01-20 14:00:44] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> IIRC because Hubble or Haswell or someone had just been hanging out there.
  636. [2018-01-20 14:00:48] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> In which case you'll push to undo this in 5 months
  637. [2018-01-20 14:00:54] → Techhead joined (Techhead@totally.not.a.robot)
  638. [2018-01-20 14:00:54] * ChanServ set +h Techhead
  639. [2018-01-20 14:00:54] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Also atlantis, who isn't staff either
  640. [2018-01-20 14:00:56] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> That's a general "anyone you"
  641. [2018-01-20 14:01:02] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Isn't Atlantis still a Dev?
  642. [2018-01-20 14:01:04] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> no it's me bitch
  643. [2018-01-20 14:01:05] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Nope
  644. [2018-01-20 14:01:14] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Oh @Techhead we set it to
  645. [2018-01-20 14:01:16] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> He handles the logs
  646. [2018-01-20 14:01:17] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I can't remember what mode
  647. [2018-01-20 14:01:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> You gotta be on the list now
  648. [2018-01-20 14:01:21] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Ah, legit
  649. [2018-01-20 14:01:23] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Before it was public
  650. [2018-01-20 14:01:26] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> kind of a sidebar comment but can i just say how pleasant this has been so far? this is a HUGE departure from those awful leaked meeting logs
  651. [2018-01-20 14:01:28] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I always hated public staff discussions and didn't quite understand the point of that forum. It's just silly, you're dangling stuff in front of people but they can't participate
  652. [2018-01-20 14:01:28] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> As in anyone could join, including spambots
  653. [2018-01-20 14:01:30] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Who did often
  654. [2018-01-20 14:01:32] <Techhead> Turns out I'm not autobanned.
  655. [2018-01-20 14:01:42] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> That means Techhead is on THE LIST
  656. [2018-01-20 14:01:44] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> go full secret or full public imo
  657. [2018-01-20 14:01:47] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> I say everything like it’s public anyway
  658. [2018-01-20 14:01:48] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> @CHINSKY why do you view it as taunting rather than keeping people in the know?
  659. [2018-01-20 14:02:00] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> dunno
  660. [2018-01-20 14:02:05] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> it just looks to me that way
  661. [2018-01-20 14:02:07] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I wouldn't be against treating GSF and PSF as we do GAF
  662. [2018-01-20 14:02:15] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Er, ASF? w/e
  663. [2018-01-20 14:02:15] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Wha
  664. [2018-01-20 14:02:18] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> If they want to talk about it, they or we can make an completely public thread about it.
  665. [2018-01-20 14:02:18] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The Admin Subforum
  666. [2018-01-20 14:02:23] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> How do you mean Crush
  667. [2018-01-20 14:02:25] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> same as why I was against special snowflake dev subforum for discussions stuff
  668. [2018-01-20 14:02:26] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i think i can't stress enough the psychological effect too: they see more activity out of staff
  669. [2018-01-20 14:02:27] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We *only* put what's totally relevant to the Admin subforum in it
  670. [2018-01-20 14:02:30] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> yeah they could just make a thread about it @CHINSKY
  671. [2018-01-20 14:02:31] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Everything else goes in GSF
  672. [2018-01-20 14:02:34] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> And keep the more staff discussions organized in PSF
  673. [2018-01-20 14:02:36] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> _shrugs_
  674. [2018-01-20 14:02:44] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> whatever floats your boat nerds
  675. [2018-01-20 14:02:46] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> the admin subforum used to have more of the discussion
  676. [2018-01-20 14:02:49] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But now it's mostly GSF
  677. [2018-01-20 14:03:06] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Admin is only used when we absolutely only need admins to see it
  678. [2018-01-20 14:03:08] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I'm only here for the setting discussion shit, did I miss that?
  679. [2018-01-20 14:03:13] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> nah, we're not there yet
  680. [2018-01-20 14:03:14] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> No.
  681. [2018-01-20 14:03:16] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Nope
  682. [2018-01-20 14:03:19] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> figured
  683. [2018-01-20 14:03:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So if we do want to shift to using PSF more
  684. [2018-01-20 14:03:20] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Maybe we should have some sort of poll? My idea was GAF stays as it is, GSF keeps it's votes, similiar to GAF but for mod stuff, PSF gets policy discussion on staff stuff.
  685. [2018-01-20 14:03:24] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I'd be in favor of doing that
  686. [2018-01-20 14:03:27] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Make PSF the default
  687. [2018-01-20 14:03:30] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> it's been only an hour, no way we'd get to anything of importance so fast :^)
  688. [2018-01-20 14:03:35] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Only put anything in GSF if it can't be seen by players
  689. [2018-01-20 14:03:45] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Like event planning
  690. [2018-01-20 14:03:49] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Yeh
  691. [2018-01-20 14:03:52] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Where we don't want spoilers
  692. [2018-01-20 14:04:10] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Also ok with that
  693. [2018-01-20 14:04:11] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Event planning, secret possible setting discussion where we don't want players freaking that we are changing everything
  694. [2018-01-20 14:04:13] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Also an addendum
  695. [2018-01-20 14:04:30] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Players should not be starting threads to discuss what we are discussing, I think that's fair right?
  696. [2018-01-20 14:04:33] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> But still, prolly best to poll this to both move on, and so someone gets a chance to get some better guidelines on what would go where
  697. [2018-01-20 14:04:44] <DiscordBridge> <Levyafan> um. if we change setting secretly, that's gotta freak out players even moar
  698. [2018-01-20 14:04:54] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> I was more thinking of like
  699. [2018-01-20 14:04:55] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> @masterrbc disagree, i think they should be allowed to discuss anything
  700. [2018-01-20 14:05:01] <DiscordBridge> <Levyafan> and it WON'T help this stereotype of staff secrecy
  701. [2018-01-20 14:05:03] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Alright
  702. [2018-01-20 14:05:03] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> When we first talked about torch, we kept it in GSF afaik
  703. [2018-01-20 14:05:08] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Incase we didn't go with it
  704. [2018-01-20 14:05:12] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Wot Rush that’s not what’s happening
  705. [2018-01-20 14:05:12] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> If they want to make a thread aboit what we are talking about, let them.
  706. [2018-01-20 14:05:24] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> it is a consequence, yes, that the entire bay playerbase seems to be unable to have a normal conversation without making death threats two pages in
  707. [2018-01-20 14:05:27] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> but that's why we moderate
  708. [2018-01-20 14:05:35] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> And then when votes happened we were like 'heres what we came up with'
  709. [2018-01-20 14:05:38] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Uh, Torch was the winner of the map contest.
  710. [2018-01-20 14:05:40] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> For the record note: Rush Birb is Levyafan.
  711. [2018-01-20 14:05:42] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> So we had a solid idea bashed out by staff
  712. [2018-01-20 14:05:43] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Remember that?
  713. [2018-01-20 14:05:47] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> We did it with something
  714. [2018-01-20 14:05:55] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Maybe not torch, but some sort of setting related thing I swear
  715. [2018-01-20 14:06:05] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Honestly anything to do with the setting should be pretty open.
  716. [2018-01-20 14:06:14] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> This behind closed doors guff for setting changes is no good.
  717. [2018-01-20 14:06:26] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I agree
  718. [2018-01-20 14:06:35] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Having this torch 2.0 behind closed doors isn't helpful
  719. [2018-01-20 14:06:41] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I don't care how early days it is it should be up front from the beginning.
  720. [2018-01-20 14:06:42] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Its what led to mass confusion when we did those first few Torch Tests
  721. [2018-01-20 14:06:45] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> So what if people say stuff about it? You don't need to follow it.
  722. [2018-01-20 14:06:45] <DiscordBridge> <Levyafan> I'll just rename myself if my nick is distracting
  723. [2018-01-20 14:06:50] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So, we're in general agreement to start pushing on that?
  724. [2018-01-20 14:06:53] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> A. it's currenlty not being worked on and B. there are reasons for both closed doors and not.
  725. [2018-01-20 14:06:55] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> sounds great.
  726. [2018-01-20 14:06:55] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Make PSF the default?
  727. [2018-01-20 14:06:55] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> And yes Crush
  728. [2018-01-20 14:07:00] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I've had all my stuff open from the beginning. Secret planning doesn't hlep even if it's a WIP
  729. [2018-01-20 14:07:01] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Not instantly do it *right now*
  730. [2018-01-20 14:07:05] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Let them see the development process
  731. [2018-01-20 14:07:07] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Few were ready for that amount of structural change
  732. [2018-01-20 14:07:08] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But get to digging to see if there's anything stopping it
  733. [2018-01-20 14:07:08] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> What are the reasons for being closed doors with setting changes
  734. [2018-01-20 14:07:11] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And get it done
  735. [2018-01-20 14:07:14] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Generally yes Crush, but do a poll and that. Not everyone's here and stuff
  736. [2018-01-20 14:07:15] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> You have no obligation to listen to their opinions of it
  737. [2018-01-20 14:07:19] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> okay, nitpicking question
  738. [2018-01-20 14:07:19] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> But at least let them see it
  739. [2018-01-20 14:07:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Mostly to keep noise out Eckles
  740. [2018-01-20 14:07:21] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> why can't it be done right now
  741. [2018-01-20 14:07:34] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Because I'm lazy and don't want to dig through 10 pages of posts to decide
  742. [2018-01-20 14:07:37] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> TLDR: "Not done writing yet"
  743. [2018-01-20 14:07:38] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Eckles I was only doing it with 2.0 so I could have a place to work without every single thing being tussled over while the rest of it is in development
  744. [2018-01-20 14:07:38] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> "Can this be moved?"
  745. [2018-01-20 14:07:45] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> This instant
  746. [2018-01-20 14:07:50] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> We tried full openness when Spook wanted to remove marines and redo stuff
  747. [2018-01-20 14:07:51] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> oh, you want to also move a lot of archived stuff
  748. [2018-01-20 14:07:53] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ok, that makes sense
  749. [2018-01-20 14:07:59] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i thought for some reason you wanted to wait on making it a decision
  750. [2018-01-20 14:08:02] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Oh, that stuff.
  751. [2018-01-20 14:08:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I mean, I guess maybe give people time to object?
  752. [2018-01-20 14:08:15] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But most of staff is here
  753. [2018-01-20 14:08:21] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And everyone seems to agree which is rare
  754. [2018-01-20 14:08:22] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So
  755. [2018-01-20 14:08:27] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> You're open with the planning, you take feedback, and then you impliment it if you like it. If you don't you do what you want.
  756. [2018-01-20 14:08:30] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I think there should be not so much secrecy but a seperate topic for staff to discuss about big stuff in? Is that whatcha mean crush?
  757. [2018-01-20 14:08:36] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I'd say just go with it
  758. [2018-01-20 14:08:37] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> What
  759. [2018-01-20 14:08:45] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I'm wrong... lmao ignore me
  760. [2018-01-20 14:08:48] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I'm just going to do it and make a post for players explaining what the change is
  761. [2018-01-20 14:08:52] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And you guys can also read that
  762. [2018-01-20 14:08:52] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> K?
  763. [2018-01-20 14:08:57] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> K
  764. [2018-01-20 14:08:58] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Ok
  765. [2018-01-20 14:08:58] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> 👍
  766. [2018-01-20 14:09:02] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Woo
  767. [2018-01-20 14:09:08] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Woo topic 1 and DONE
  768. [2018-01-20 14:09:15] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> @F-Tang Steve I agree but I was mostly talking about first impression. People see a shit idea that could be improved and they might go "Well that's shit, never gonna touch that". In staff channels it goes more like "Well that's shit, but could be improved like this", and then later "Look community
  769. [2018-01-20 14:09:15] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> members, what do you think of this cool *thought out* idea"
  770. [2018-01-20 14:09:17] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Topic 1 was really 4 topics
  771. [2018-01-20 14:09:20] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Moving on now guys
  772. [2018-01-20 14:09:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Squeezed into one name
  773. [2018-01-20 14:09:21] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> I have no idea what we're talking about due to in round admin tasks so uh, go for it idk
  774. [2018-01-20 14:09:23] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Yeah I know lmao
  775. [2018-01-20 14:09:25] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> That felt like three seperate topics
  776. [2018-01-20 14:09:28] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Alright we're moing on
  777. [2018-01-20 14:09:28] <DiscordBridge> <Levyafan> I vote for open discussion. I still believe that the player community should be trusted about where they want their game to be taken.
  778. [2018-01-20 14:09:31] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> next topic yes
  779. [2018-01-20 14:09:31] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> thank god
  780. [2018-01-20 14:09:47] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ***Server Setting and the Setting Poll***
  781. [2018-01-20 14:09:53] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> @CHINSKY
  782. [2018-01-20 14:09:54] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> 🔥
  783. [2018-01-20 14:09:54] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Ok so I haven't received the full numbers YET
  784. [2018-01-20 14:09:59] <DiscordBridge> <Levyafan> OH HERE WE GO
  785. [2018-01-20 14:10:02] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> because xales has been dealing with sick GF
  786. [2018-01-20 14:10:03] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ohhhhh boy
  787. [2018-01-20 14:10:17] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> 🔥 🔥
  788. [2018-01-20 14:10:18] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> When we get them @ThatOneGuy I can do some graphs for it. I took a data visualisation course.
  789. [2018-01-20 14:10:28] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> That'd be great cause mine won't look as good as yours
  790. [2018-01-20 14:10:36] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I do have tho
  791. [2018-01-20 14:10:36] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> fuck you i'll do one in crayon
  792. [2018-01-20 14:10:44] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> an older poll number
  793. [2018-01-20 14:10:47] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> when it was around like 160
  794. [2018-01-20 14:10:48] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> I'll use paint dw ToG
  795. [2018-01-20 14:10:49] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> or something
  796. [2018-01-20 14:10:53] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> enterprise shit aside, what's the gist of results
  797. [2018-01-20 14:10:55] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Jesus
  798. [2018-01-20 14:11:03] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> yeah give us the meat
  799. [2018-01-20 14:11:04] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> so hey! how about that setting
  800. [2018-01-20 14:11:08] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> the
  801. [2018-01-20 14:11:08] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> M
  802. [2018-01-20 14:11:08] <DiscordBridge> <[SYSTEM]> full message from ParadoxSpace: https://ptpb.pw/AIIFaSetokWNlyTMiBDcHJZYqhw_
  803. [2018-01-20 14:11:10] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @ThatOneGuy Has also, for the record, been thoroughly polluted by now as well, given that it hit critical mass in public knowledge long ago and has seen people overtly grabbing friends to connect and vote specific ways, as I've pointed out to you. It's basically worthless now unless we have a
  804. [2018-01-20 14:11:10] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> history of votes as well as sums.
  805. [2018-01-20 14:11:12] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> 🍖
  806. [2018-01-20 14:11:29] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> People were doing that?
  807. [2018-01-20 14:11:30] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> What the hell
  808. [2018-01-20 14:11:31] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> We've got a history @spooky
  809. [2018-01-20 14:11:31] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Why
  810. [2018-01-20 14:11:32] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Yes.
  811. [2018-01-20 14:11:34] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> of course they were
  812. [2018-01-20 14:11:35] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> are you really surprised SoM
  813. [2018-01-20 14:11:37] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> are you really
  814. [2018-01-20 14:11:37] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> are you actually honestly surprised
  815. [2018-01-20 14:11:38] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Anyway
  816. [2018-01-20 14:11:38] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> really surprised
  817. [2018-01-20 14:11:39] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Next topic
  818. [2018-01-20 14:11:40] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> I honestly am
  819. [2018-01-20 14:11:41] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> glad to see it's as worthless as forum votes, won't need to adjust
  820. [2018-01-20 14:11:41] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> A large portion of our community enjoys MilRP(around 50%) and 1/4 do not.
  821. [2018-01-20 14:11:42] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Also
  822. [2018-01-20 14:11:46] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> **Can we get this done in less than three hours**
  823. [2018-01-20 14:11:47] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> We do have history of votes
  824. [2018-01-20 14:11:48] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Yes
  825. [2018-01-20 14:11:49] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> yeah man we need to move from this topic like right the fuck now
  826. [2018-01-20 14:11:50] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> I could not imagine grabbing random ass friends to vote on a random ass poll
  827. [2018-01-20 14:11:51] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> this is gonna go nuclear
  828. [2018-01-20 14:11:53] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> We do have history of votes
  829. [2018-01-20 14:11:54] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and who voted
  830. [2018-01-20 14:11:56] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> GO
  831. [2018-01-20 14:11:57] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> NEXT TOPIC
  832. [2018-01-20 14:11:57] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and how old their cky is
  833. [2018-01-20 14:11:59] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> anyways
  834. [2018-01-20 14:12:00] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> NO HISTORY OF VOTING
  835. [2018-01-20 14:12:04] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> rofl
  836. [2018-01-20 14:12:06] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> <:abbysalwhip:326527328953827329>
  837. [2018-01-20 14:12:07] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> crush relax
  838. [2018-01-20 14:12:07] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> jesus
  839. [2018-01-20 14:12:09] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> People like MilRP, people like the Torch,
  840. [2018-01-20 14:12:22] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> surprising results
  841. [2018-01-20 14:12:22] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> truly shocking
  842. [2018-01-20 14:12:32] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> (oh wait this is the topic fuck I'm an idiot)
  843. [2018-01-20 14:12:37] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> 👏
  844. [2018-01-20 14:12:39] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> (I thought this was between topic banter)
  845. [2018-01-20 14:12:39] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> massive upheavel like what 2.0 is isn't what people want
  846. [2018-01-20 14:12:39] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (hence I haven't been talking about it)
  847. [2018-01-20 14:12:39] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Best way to describe it "the playerbase likes the direction the server is going"
  848. [2018-01-20 14:12:40] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> (sorry)
  849. [2018-01-20 14:12:42] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Ah but that's just the people playing, what about the one's that don't play cause their stuff got removed T.T
  850. [2018-01-20 14:12:46] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> _pat @Crushtoe_
  851. [2018-01-20 14:12:48] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> But thinks our organizations should be stronger and the lore more consistent
  852. [2018-01-20 14:12:48] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> it's okay
  853. [2018-01-20 14:12:54] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> you'll be fine
  854. [2018-01-20 14:12:55] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Also that Away Missions take too long to start up
  855. [2018-01-20 14:13:02] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Ok that's v. true
  856. [2018-01-20 14:13:03] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If they're still connected to the community at all SOM
  857. [2018-01-20 14:13:03] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> That's just bad command play.
  858. [2018-01-20 14:13:05] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and that Government-authority for security is pretty great
  859. [2018-01-20 14:13:06] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> then they'll have been told about it
  860. [2018-01-20 14:13:09] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Can I post a graph from a while back?
  861. [2018-01-20 14:13:11] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I mean *at all*
  862. [2018-01-20 14:13:11] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Right now?
  863. [2018-01-20 14:13:12] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> I'm mostly kidding Crush 😛
  864. [2018-01-20 14:13:24] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Like you get people who sit around waiting 40 minutes for shields/engines/power even though you can literally just fly the Torch from round start as long as you're careful.
  865. [2018-01-20 14:13:34] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> It's the same numbers as the one I have probably but I'm wondering how you placed the numbers
  866. [2018-01-20 14:13:39] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Eckles oh I know
  867. [2018-01-20 14:13:43] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> that was just one of the questions
  868. [2018-01-20 14:13:43] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> In a line prolly
  869. [2018-01-20 14:13:44] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @ThatOneGuy can I post a graph?
  870. [2018-01-20 14:13:44] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> There's 0 reason for away missions taking an hour thirty to start other than operator error.
  871. [2018-01-20 14:13:45] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I mean we can just bin the overmap and ship movement
  872. [2018-01-20 14:13:47] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> and put gateway
  873. [2018-01-20 14:13:49] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (which is why I started the thread about em)
  874. [2018-01-20 14:13:54] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> gross chinsky
  875. [2018-01-20 14:13:54] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> @F-Tang Steve post it
  876. [2018-01-20 14:13:55] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> jfc
  877. [2018-01-20 14:13:56] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> steve sure
  878. [2018-01-20 14:13:57] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/331575881808084992/397985241215664128/unknown.png
  879. [2018-01-20 14:14:01] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> aww, the overmap is neat
  880. [2018-01-20 14:14:06] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> it's so *thematic*
  881. [2018-01-20 14:14:11] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @Eckles_Fire Engine optimization is a blight. Shields are a blight.
  882. [2018-01-20 14:14:13] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> yeah I'm kidding, I'd keep overmap over keeping players :^)
  883. [2018-01-20 14:14:14] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @CHINSKY You joke but when I do away mission events I literally have to do magic portals and teleporters otherwise people *never* arrive.
  884. [2018-01-20 14:14:15] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> agreed with EC
  885. [2018-01-20 14:14:19] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> thanks chin
  886. [2018-01-20 14:14:23] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @spooky But neither of those things are necessary for the ship to move?
  887. [2018-01-20 14:14:23] <DiscordBridge> <Levyafan> If we're asking if we should remove NT and only leave EC, we'll remove the only alternative to milRP we have. And sometimes people, well. Don't want any milRP.
  888. [2018-01-20 14:14:25] <NanoTrasen_Inc> Still disproportionally dangerous spider country codes alternative map conflicts.
  889. [2018-01-20 14:14:35] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/382715083337498624/397989861644304388/Snap_2018-01-03_at_00.49.11.png
  890. [2018-01-20 14:14:35] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i'm telling you, the only thing you can do to remove engine optimization is to make the engine literally just a "push the ON button" affair
  891. [2018-01-20 14:14:37] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> which god
  892. [2018-01-20 14:14:37] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> what no that's not the plan Levy
  893. [2018-01-20 14:14:38] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i'd love that
  894. [2018-01-20 14:14:53] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> replace SM with 10 pacmans
  895. [2018-01-20 14:14:55] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> problem solved
  896. [2018-01-20 14:14:58] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> @Earthcrusher a series of wall-mounted levers
  897. [2018-01-20 14:15:02] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> > series
  898. [2018-01-20 14:15:03] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> make it one
  899. [2018-01-20 14:15:03] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Again, the SM being on or off does not prevent the ship from flying.
  900. [2018-01-20 14:15:10] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Please stop saying it does if you think that.
  901. [2018-01-20 14:15:10] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> yeah I guess just
  902. [2018-01-20 14:15:12] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @Eckles_Fire Yes but the problem is that they are loved by a tiny subset of players who also tend to take important roles 8)
  903. [2018-01-20 14:15:13] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> you push it and then you go do the rest of your engineering job instead of sitting in your autism fort
  904. [2018-01-20 14:15:16] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I'm not surprised people don't like pretending to be wowed by a derelict station the 10th time they've seen it
  905. [2018-01-20 14:15:18] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> add it in BOLD BLACK LETTERS
  906. [2018-01-20 14:15:26] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> to SOP or whatever pages people who fly reference
  907. [2018-01-20 14:15:28] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Some documentation in general might be nice for engine basics visa vis overmap
  908. [2018-01-20 14:15:29] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> guide to ships maybe
  909. [2018-01-20 14:15:35] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @spooky I mean i've literally told the CO as the CE to just go at round start and they've screamed at me for not putting the shields and engine on.
  910. [2018-01-20 14:15:36] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> There was one on the forums but outdated afaik
  911. [2018-01-20 14:15:38] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> BO/CO/XO pages
  912. [2018-01-20 14:15:43] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> So the vast majority of people like civ RP
  913. [2018-01-20 14:15:46] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Unless someone recently added a guide to wikik
  914. [2018-01-20 14:15:49] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Yeah I think a big fat SOP addition would make people move.
  915. [2018-01-20 14:15:55] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i apologize, i'm not helping, and we're getting a second conversation going about engineering toxicity that we oughta shelf
  916. [2018-01-20 14:15:55] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> less than 5% don't like civ RP
  917. [2018-01-20 14:15:56] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Just something to throw at people officially.
  918. [2018-01-20 14:15:59] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I added a guide to flyuing ship like few months ago
  919. [2018-01-20 14:16:10] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Steve remember tho
  920. [2018-01-20 14:16:11] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> https://wiki.baystation12.net/Guide_to_Ships
  921. [2018-01-20 14:16:12] <NanoTrasen_Inc> @CHINSKY: Guide to Ships - Baystation 12
  922. [2018-01-20 14:16:12] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> tbh - I think the poll does show that there is more players who'd like to go to the non-milrp, which I'm totally okay with
  923. [2018-01-20 14:16:14] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Some people like MilRP, and surprise surprise
  924. [2018-01-20 14:16:16] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Also, running to get more coffee
  925. [2018-01-20 14:16:18] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> That that number also includes people who like MilRP and CivRP
  926. [2018-01-20 14:16:18] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> People don't mind also doing other stuff
  927. [2018-01-20 14:16:20] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> @Eckles_Fire "Sir, do you plan on flying into asteroid fields today?"
  928. [2018-01-20 14:16:21] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> No it doesn't BC.
  929. [2018-01-20 14:16:23] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> That's not a surprise
  930. [2018-01-20 14:16:26] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Not everyone is split one way or the other
  931. [2018-01-20 14:16:27] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> It shows that people like both.
  932. [2018-01-20 14:16:29] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ^
  933. [2018-01-20 14:16:30] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @Techhead Believe me they insist on waiting anyway.
  934. [2018-01-20 14:16:40] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> yeah, it seriously doesn't have to be so partisan. i love playing either civ or low-ranking EC, and i also love being shouted at by jarheads
  935. [2018-01-20 14:16:40] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> TOG just said 50% of people like milRP
  936. [2018-01-20 14:16:42] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> you're just asking "Do you like this niche kind of RP and then do you also like normal rp that isn't milrp"
  937. [2018-01-20 14:16:43] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> Oh my bad then
  938. [2018-01-20 14:16:46] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i'd never play the milRP part but i don't mind it being there
  939. [2018-01-20 14:16:50] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Then they are lost!
  940. [2018-01-20 14:16:51] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> What EC said
  941. [2018-01-20 14:16:59] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> That said
  942. [2018-01-20 14:17:01] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @ThatOneGuy it does show that peoplel ike both and we should keep both. but that if we're getting rid of one we should stick with civ and not go full mil.
  943. [2018-01-20 14:17:01] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's still useful to know
  944. [2018-01-20 14:17:07] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Plenty of people would be happy with civrp
  945. [2018-01-20 14:17:07] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> what
  946. [2018-01-20 14:17:09] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> wh
  947. [2018-01-20 14:17:12] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Yeah like I said the ship failing to move in a timely manner is operator error not the fault of game mechanics.
  948. [2018-01-20 14:17:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So
  949. [2018-01-20 14:17:13] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> why would we get rid of one
  950. [2018-01-20 14:17:19] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> We shouldnt
  951. [2018-01-20 14:17:22] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I just said that
  952. [2018-01-20 14:17:23] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> 😄
  953. [2018-01-20 14:17:26] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> It's a hypothetical ToG
  954. [2018-01-20 14:17:26] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Pls
  955. [2018-01-20 14:17:28] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> pls
  956. [2018-01-20 14:17:29] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's just useful to know where people stand
  957. [2018-01-20 14:17:31] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> ugh ugh I guess that puts a lid on my secret agenda of removing fleet too
  958. [2018-01-20 14:17:32] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So if we do go satan
  959. [2018-01-20 14:17:35] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We go the right satan
  960. [2018-01-20 14:17:36] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Liek going all EC would be terrible since it's military style RP
  961. [2018-01-20 14:17:37] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> god, go ahead and remove fleet
  962. [2018-01-20 14:17:42] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> why isn't there just civ/NT/EC
  963. [2018-01-20 14:17:43] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Don't remove fleet
  964. [2018-01-20 14:17:44] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> reeee
  965. [2018-01-20 14:17:44] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Leave precious fleet alone.
  966. [2018-01-20 14:17:46] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> no idea
  967. [2018-01-20 14:17:47] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I like my flavor
  968. [2018-01-20 14:17:48] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> No my stark white uniforms x.xz
  969. [2018-01-20 14:17:48] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Actualy BTW on EC
  970. [2018-01-20 14:17:50] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I have a thing
  971. [2018-01-20 14:17:56] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ***excuse me***
  972. [2018-01-20 14:17:57] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I want to go EC/contractors/NT
  973. [2018-01-20 14:17:58] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> dear people who like fleet: to a non milRP person you are indistinguishable from EC
  974. [2018-01-20 14:17:59] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Anyway the disgusting polluted graphs clearly show that playing players like to play what they play.
  975. [2018-01-20 14:17:59] <DiscordBridge> <spooky>
  976. [2018-01-20 14:17:59] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> <:blobshocked:396538475257528331>
  977. [2018-01-20 14:17:59] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> #DeleteTheFleet
  978. [2018-01-20 14:18:05] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> what EC said
  979. [2018-01-20 14:18:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Order, Order!
  980. [2018-01-20 14:18:10] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I have a thing that Stev and Drew worked on
  981. [2018-01-20 14:18:13] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> #DeleteTheFleet
  982. [2018-01-20 14:18:13] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Why are they disgusting and polluted @spooky
  983. [2018-01-20 14:18:18] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I think a few of you have seen it too prolly
  984. [2018-01-20 14:18:21] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @Earthcrusher And that's fine. It means something to the people who play it though.
  985. [2018-01-20 14:18:23] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Those were from the first few days of the poll
  986. [2018-01-20 14:18:27] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> lemme pull it up real quick
  987. [2018-01-20 14:18:30] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Before people started pulling in their buddies
  988. [2018-01-20 14:18:37] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> @F-Tang Steve because people (and i guarantee i can name a source of them) are pulling in their comrades
  989. [2018-01-20 14:18:39] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> to doctor the results
  990. [2018-01-20 14:18:48] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @F-Tang Steve They're probably not if they're older, I'm just being horrible for effect. The final results really have been gamed though, so IDK what they'll show.
  991. [2018-01-20 14:18:56] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Wait, is this the part of the meeting where I pull up my Marines lore proposal again?
  992. [2018-01-20 14:18:56] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> That was from the first three days of the poll
  993. [2018-01-20 14:19:00] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> I still find it so dumb that people are doing that for blimming "2d Spessman"
  994. [2018-01-20 14:19:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> no
  995. [2018-01-20 14:19:10] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (also we don't need to talk about the results of the poll as if we don't have a way to check for cheating and shit)
  996. [2018-01-20 14:19:11] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @spooky It's not like people have been churning out alt accounts just to vote...Right.
  997. [2018-01-20 14:19:11] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> never underestimate the pettiness of teenagers
  998. [2018-01-20 14:19:18] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @Eckles_Fire actually
  999. [2018-01-20 14:19:20] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> @spooky here's a funny idea. we post in #news 'we can look at poll history and player age'
  1000. [2018-01-20 14:19:23] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> just to scare them lmao
  1001. [2018-01-20 14:19:24] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Yeah we can control for that
  1002. [2018-01-20 14:19:34] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> we can tho
  1003. [2018-01-20 14:19:38] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> We can remove votes from accounts that don't play
  1004. [2018-01-20 14:19:38] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and their IPs
  1005. [2018-01-20 14:19:41] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Or new accounts
  1006. [2018-01-20 14:19:44] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> yep
  1007. [2018-01-20 14:19:44] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> or ones that share IP
  1008. [2018-01-20 14:19:49] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Lots of stuff we can do
  1009. [2018-01-20 14:19:51] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Do you know any confirmed cases of "yeah I called my friends, what of it?"
  1010. [2018-01-20 14:19:53] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> this entire vote is so sketch
  1011. [2018-01-20 14:19:55] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Probably
  1012. [2018-01-20 14:20:00] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> lmao, right
  1013. [2018-01-20 14:20:02] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Xales already caught a few new ones
  1014. [2018-01-20 14:20:04] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @Techhead yeah I took a picture of one and sent it to tog.
  1015. [2018-01-20 14:20:04] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's no more sketch than a forum poll?
  1016. [2018-01-20 14:20:08] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ^
  1017. [2018-01-20 14:20:10] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> literally nothing legit about it on either side
  1018. [2018-01-20 14:20:17] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Most votes are sketch
  1019. [2018-01-20 14:20:18] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So throw it all data
  1020. [2018-01-20 14:20:20] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> We can also ban the people who did that both the people who called riends and the friends themselves
  1021. [2018-01-20 14:20:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And go full anarchy
  1022. [2018-01-20 14:20:21] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Got it
  1023. [2018-01-20 14:20:26] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> can you clarify why it might be sketchy on the side of the poll creator?
  1024. [2018-01-20 14:20:32] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Alright that was hyperbole on my part
  1025. [2018-01-20 14:20:32] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Sorry
  1026. [2018-01-20 14:20:36] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> lil' bit
  1027. [2018-01-20 14:20:41] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> My main problem with that poll was that one question
  1028. [2018-01-20 14:20:41] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> ***ANYWAY*** let's move on
  1029. [2018-01-20 14:20:42] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> @F-Tang Steve <:GWchadMEGATHINK:366999806343774218>
  1030. [2018-01-20 14:20:44] ← Techhead left (Techhead@totally.not.a.robot): "*poof*"
  1031. [2018-01-20 14:20:44] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> "do you enjoy OOC conflict"
  1032. [2018-01-20 14:20:48] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I sure do
  1033. [2018-01-20 14:20:52] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I still don't get why that was added.
  1034. [2018-01-20 14:20:52] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> that question was hilarious and i voted 5 on it
  1035. [2018-01-20 14:20:53] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> put solid 10 there
  1036. [2018-01-20 14:20:55] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Okay never mind then
  1037. [2018-01-20 14:21:03] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> tell me if you can read this https://docs.google.com/document/d/14SwGepsxrYHOiF1iwx8sSayW9rSlSjHeodshqNwl2WE/edit?usp=sharing
  1038. [2018-01-20 14:21:03] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Why in the world was that considered a necessary question.
  1039. [2018-01-20 14:21:04] <NanoTrasen_Inc> @ThatOneGuy: Stev-Drew EC Proposal - Google Docs
  1040. [2018-01-20 14:21:04] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> I was in the "bait for shitters" camp.
  1041. [2018-01-20 14:21:07] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> skip, man, you gotta stop doing that. if you think something is dumb explain it
  1042. [2018-01-20 14:21:16] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> oh jesus no
  1043. [2018-01-20 14:21:21] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Admin said to move on
  1044. [2018-01-20 14:21:26] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> alright, alright, fair enough
  1045. [2018-01-20 14:21:33] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I'm back
  1046. [2018-01-20 14:21:34] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> >SCMJ for EC and DF branches are separated into the Explorer’s Code and SCMJ
  1047. [2018-01-20 14:21:38] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> TOG
  1048. [2018-01-20 14:21:39] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> more law books for law gods
  1049. [2018-01-20 14:21:41] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> That's too long for a meeting
  1050. [2018-01-20 14:21:45] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> the fuck is 'SCMJ'
  1051. [2018-01-20 14:21:48] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> TOG that's way too long
  1052. [2018-01-20 14:21:49] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I know I was just linking it jeeze
  1053. [2018-01-20 14:21:51] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> Sol Code of Military Justice
  1054. [2018-01-20 14:21:52] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Sol Central Military Justice EC
  1055. [2018-01-20 14:21:53] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ah
  1056. [2018-01-20 14:21:54] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Gimme a second to finish typing
  1057. [2018-01-20 14:22:01] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> the thing that makes people scream because 'my boss can make me do pushups!!!!!!!!!!!'
  1058. [2018-01-20 14:22:01] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Before jumping on me
  1059. [2018-01-20 14:22:03] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> lord
  1060. [2018-01-20 14:22:04] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> even though that never happens
  1061. [2018-01-20 14:22:06] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ok EC's super topical opinion on setting: acronyms suck, remove them please
  1062. [2018-01-20 14:22:11] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i can't understand half of players anymore
  1063. [2018-01-20 14:22:18] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Anyways
  1064. [2018-01-20 14:22:25] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> get on with times grandpa
  1065. [2018-01-20 14:22:26] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Also, the giant blocks of red text isn't really any more helpful than "SCMJ removed"
  1066. [2018-01-20 14:22:28] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> we only use acronums now
  1067. [2018-01-20 14:22:28] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @ThatOneGuy reign this back in please and let's bet back on topic
  1068. [2018-01-20 14:22:29] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> @Earthcrusher do you CO the XO and SCMJ your 3DPD while NT and DF?
  1069. [2018-01-20 14:22:29] <NanoTrasen_Inc> Would prefer 3dpd.
  1070. [2018-01-20 14:22:31] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> fuck you i'm busy selling shit in supply
  1071. [2018-01-20 14:22:36] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Guys
  1072. [2018-01-20 14:22:44] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> You're on a tangent
  1073. [2018-01-20 14:22:52] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> we don't wanna be here for 5 hours
  1074. [2018-01-20 14:22:57] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> or 9
  1075. [2018-01-20 14:23:00] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> What's next on the agenda?
  1076. [2018-01-20 14:23:04] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ^
  1077. [2018-01-20 14:23:06] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> (Or current?)
  1078. [2018-01-20 14:23:08] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Let's keep chugging
  1079. [2018-01-20 14:23:11] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> 24 hour meeting when
  1080. [2018-01-20 14:23:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> You fall behind you kept swept away
  1081. [2018-01-20 14:23:17] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @ThatOneGuy At a glance, this document describes a squirrely mess of exceptions and edge cases. I have nothing against the intent, but the reality is bad.
  1082. [2018-01-20 14:23:22] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> We can move on and just have a PSF on setting
  1083. [2018-01-20 14:23:35] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Spook I was gonna say something on it but guess not now
  1084. [2018-01-20 14:23:35] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> I got an agenda item.
  1085. [2018-01-20 14:23:40] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> what if we just remove the SCMJ
  1086. [2018-01-20 14:23:43] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> and have SHIP ARTICLES
  1087. [2018-01-20 14:23:44] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> sorry, what was the verdict, if any, on setting?
  1088. [2018-01-20 14:23:46] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> like God intended
  1089. [2018-01-20 14:23:54] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> like we talked around it but i didn't see any real decision making
  1090. [2018-01-20 14:24:04] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Was it something someone wanted decisions on
  1091. [2018-01-20 14:24:05] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> With the setting, can I have a floor for a moment?
  1092. [2018-01-20 14:24:12] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i mean not a 'decision' per se
  1093. [2018-01-20 14:24:14] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Yeah, sure go ahead.
  1094. [2018-01-20 14:24:15] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I wanna say something when there's a chance.
  1095. [2018-01-20 14:24:20] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I'll wait till Steve's done.
  1096. [2018-01-20 14:24:21] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Eckles you can go next
  1097. [2018-01-20 14:24:24] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Ok, steve has the floor, let me type something long.
  1098. [2018-01-20 14:24:27] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (after Steve I mean)
  1099. [2018-01-20 14:25:44] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Reminder to *please* DM tog with topics if they're not related to the current thing even tangentially
  1100. [2018-01-20 14:25:48] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Not saying Steve is
  1101. [2018-01-20 14:25:55] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Just more to Techhead who asked to give a topic
  1102. [2018-01-20 14:26:22] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Anonymous complaint/suggestion box: I think it should be a thing.
  1103. [2018-01-20 14:26:25] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> So: this thing with changing bits and pieces is not working. We can't nickel and dime this setting into pieces. It hasn't worked in the past and it's not working now; marine removal added nothing and had none of the supporting structure it needed.
  1104. [2018-01-20 14:26:25] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve>
  1105. [2018-01-20 14:26:25] <DiscordBridge> <[SYSTEM]> full message from F-Tang Steve: https://ptpb.pw/AL3ZguIXo43obYegnZYUZjgy9WCq
  1106. [2018-01-20 14:26:44] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> (Wait, sorry, I misread that cue)
  1107. [2018-01-20 14:26:46] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> +1
  1108. [2018-01-20 14:27:03] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> +1
  1109. [2018-01-20 14:27:09] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I've been pretty vocal about my endgame with like marine nuking/EC ranks ftr
  1110. [2018-01-20 14:27:15] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The marine removal was a weird thing to try and string it until the full thing was done and
  1111. [2018-01-20 14:27:24] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> @ThatOneGuy Do you mind if I share a thing from the Torch 2.0 chat about this
  1112. [2018-01-20 14:27:24] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> +1
  1113. [2018-01-20 14:27:28] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> That I disagree with the sentiment of?
  1114. [2018-01-20 14:27:28] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Sure
  1115. [2018-01-20 14:27:29] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Yes *your* end goal. We need a *server* end goal @CHINSKY
  1116. [2018-01-20 14:27:37] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> we weren't getting one
  1117. [2018-01-20 14:27:42] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Then make one
  1118. [2018-01-20 14:27:45] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I did
  1119. [2018-01-20 14:27:49] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> chinsky was doing what we needed
  1120. [2018-01-20 14:27:49] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> And get it approved
  1121. [2018-01-20 14:27:53] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> ah
  1122. [2018-01-20 14:27:55] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> someone to grab the cow by the udders
  1123. [2018-01-20 14:27:56] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> and steer it
  1124. [2018-01-20 14:27:57] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> No
  1125. [2018-01-20 14:28:01] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> That's not what's needed
  1126. [2018-01-20 14:28:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> This bit
  1127. [2018-01-20 14:28:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/274952400358473728/404371527384170537/unknown.png
  1128. [2018-01-20 14:28:06] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The sentiment was
  1129. [2018-01-20 14:28:08] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> we need more polls and maybe a committee
  1130. [2018-01-20 14:28:10] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> It's causing a lot of fighting in the community
  1131. [2018-01-20 14:28:15] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> "Remove it, if it doesn't go well we can do the full plan anyway"
  1132. [2018-01-20 14:28:20] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> it's a great point though. this setting is amazingly schizophrenic right now
  1133. [2018-01-20 14:28:21] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Now Steve one thinf o note and not to be pessimistic
  1134. [2018-01-20 14:28:22] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> "So it doesn't matter if the reaction is haphazard"
  1135. [2018-01-20 14:28:27] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I didn't agree with that either Crush
  1136. [2018-01-20 14:28:30] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I absolutely **despise** that sentiment
  1137. [2018-01-20 14:28:42] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> That "Who cares if it goes to shit"
  1138. [2018-01-20 14:28:47] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> "We can fix it with the full plan"
  1139. [2018-01-20 14:28:50] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> I find meyar to be generally disagreeable but that's just me
  1140. [2018-01-20 14:28:54] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's like sabotaging it so you can replace all of it
  1141. [2018-01-20 14:28:59] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> We weren't even working off of 2.0 at that point
  1142. [2018-01-20 14:29:00] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> The marine removal was a big mess that chased people off and who may not come back when we put in the fixes that are ment to help with that.
  1143. [2018-01-20 14:29:03] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> 2 week no fleet test
  1144. [2018-01-20 14:29:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> 2.1, yeah, I know
  1145. [2018-01-20 14:29:16] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> not even 2.1 that's just me categorizing ideas
  1146. [2018-01-20 14:29:18] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> And this 2.0 chat thing is gross.
  1147. [2018-01-20 14:29:26] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Just the fact it exists for such a big thing
  1148. [2018-01-20 14:29:30] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> And people are excluded
  1149. [2018-01-20 14:29:34] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's also mainly you and Meyar really
  1150. [2018-01-20 14:29:34] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Steve it was litearlly just a PM group with all senior staff and raptor
  1151. [2018-01-20 14:29:41] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> And meya
  1152. [2018-01-20 14:29:42] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Can I say something?
  1153. [2018-01-20 14:29:44] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and yeah meyar
  1154. [2018-01-20 14:29:44] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> Whole secrecy about 2.0 thing is fucking disgusting to be quite honest
  1155. [2018-01-20 14:29:47] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> And zerobits
  1156. [2018-01-20 14:29:48] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> agree
  1157. [2018-01-20 14:29:48] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> Torch wasn't made in secrecy
  1158. [2018-01-20 14:29:52] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I have little reason to contribute, loremins haven't contributed any
  1159. [2018-01-20 14:29:53] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Zero isn't in it
  1160. [2018-01-20 14:29:54] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> the 2.0 thing should involve all of us
  1161. [2018-01-20 14:29:54] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> At all
  1162. [2018-01-20 14:29:59] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> I mean frankly I don't like it and don't look at it so /shrug
  1163. [2018-01-20 14:30:02] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> We've been waiting on "coherent set of setting changes" for months.
  1164. [2018-01-20 14:30:08] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Yeah not even all the lore people are in it @ThatOneGuy and that has no excuse
  1165. [2018-01-20 14:30:09] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i don't wanna be a dick but i'm not worried about 2.0 because i don't even believe we'll ever see it
  1166. [2018-01-20 14:30:10] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Since EARLY JULY.
  1167. [2018-01-20 14:30:14] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> yeah this marine removal is actually second one
  1168. [2018-01-20 14:30:16] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> You want the Torch 2.0 member list?
  1169. [2018-01-20 14:30:17] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/274952400358473728/404372079442526220/unknown.png
  1170. [2018-01-20 14:30:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> No ZeroBits.
  1171. [2018-01-20 14:30:22] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> ....what the fuck
  1172. [2018-01-20 14:30:23] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> meyar?
  1173. [2018-01-20 14:30:24] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> why
  1174. [2018-01-20 14:30:24] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Did I never post in the actaul thread saying that nothing was happening with it currrently?
  1175. [2018-01-20 14:30:34] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Meyar is the chat owner @ParadoxSpace
  1176. [2018-01-20 14:30:41] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The staffmins don't really participate because
  1177. [2018-01-20 14:30:41] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @ParadoxSpace because meyar made it, ye.
  1178. [2018-01-20 14:30:43] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Because of the server poll
  1179. [2018-01-20 14:30:43] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> This lore group confuses me
  1180. [2018-01-20 14:30:43] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It isn't relevant to them
  1181. [2018-01-20 14:30:48] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Rapto's in it too.
  1182. [2018-01-20 14:30:50] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I don't participate in it because
  1183. [2018-01-20 14:30:50] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ... so make a new discord server, why is he privy to this stuff
  1184. [2018-01-20 14:30:50] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sluHwh3hJhI
  1185. [2018-01-20 14:30:51] <NanoTrasen_Inc> Merry Cone: Funny Vines: Wah - YouTube
  1186. [2018-01-20 14:30:52] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's not relevant to me
  1187. [2018-01-20 14:30:53] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> It should have been in #lore-maintainers if it was to be anywhere
  1188. [2018-01-20 14:30:55] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Because Raptor was gonna work on the map
  1189. [2018-01-20 14:31:03] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The loremins don't really interact too much in it
  1190. [2018-01-20 14:31:07] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and it was originally pulled from his PSF thread
  1191. [2018-01-20 14:31:09] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @Earthcrusher It's a group DM, not a server.
  1192. [2018-01-20 14:31:10] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's mostly just tog and meyar back and forth
  1193. [2018-01-20 14:31:13] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> The lore maintainers aren't even in it
  1194. [2018-01-20 14:31:20] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> or devs..
  1195. [2018-01-20 14:31:24] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> or admins..
  1196. [2018-01-20 14:31:24] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> or mods..
  1197. [2018-01-20 14:31:25] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I don't see PS or anyone
  1198. [2018-01-20 14:31:26] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Dear lord we haven't even really discussed anything of merit in there for a while
  1199. [2018-01-20 14:31:33] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> TOG that's not the point.
  1200. [2018-01-20 14:31:35] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I think peoples issue is
  1201. [2018-01-20 14:31:38] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Not even nearly the point
  1202. [2018-01-20 14:31:43] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Okay no I get that people have issues with it
  1203. [2018-01-20 14:31:53] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> You made a group DM like that and you didn't include people and had this private old chat about server direction.
  1204. [2018-01-20 14:31:54] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Like, I can find very little case of *any* staff actually contributing any besides one liners
  1205. [2018-01-20 14:31:56] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> But I also posted that 2.0 was pretty much done
  1206. [2018-01-20 14:31:57] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Having a private group for discussing something that'll impact the whole direction of the server is gross
  1207. [2018-01-20 14:32:00] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> dredge it out of the secret cabal underworld and wipe the dust off
  1208. [2018-01-20 14:32:03] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and that thread also had the doc
  1209. [2018-01-20 14:32:08] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Also what Crushtoe says is sorta worrying?
  1210. [2018-01-20 14:32:13] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> You didn't even invite any of the senior staff (or at least me) until 2.0 was *done*
  1211. [2018-01-20 14:32:17] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So I could proofread it
  1212. [2018-01-20 14:32:18] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> so *that's* where the skeletor outfit is
  1213. [2018-01-20 14:32:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Or whatever
  1214. [2018-01-20 14:32:22] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> lmfao
  1215. [2018-01-20 14:32:24] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @ParadoxSpace 😄
  1216. [2018-01-20 14:32:27] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> boom
  1217. [2018-01-20 14:32:28] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> This whole thing is completely unacceptable @ThatOneGuy
  1218. [2018-01-20 14:32:33] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Because originally it was just me and raptor and meyar saying some things
  1219. [2018-01-20 14:32:34] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> meeting's over guys, we cracked the case
  1220. [2018-01-20 14:32:48] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Gonna be devil's advocate I guess and say it doesn't seem like that big a deal.
  1221. [2018-01-20 14:32:48] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> You and raptor and meyar deciding the direction of the server alone isn't right
  1222. [2018-01-20 14:32:55] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> it's not a massive deal. it's just shady as hell
  1223. [2018-01-20 14:32:58] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Who said that it'd be the deicison?
  1224. [2018-01-20 14:33:03] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ultimately it's not really server breaking
  1225. [2018-01-20 14:33:05] <DiscordBridge> <Shadow_Of_Man> Cause they weren't deciding shit, they were discussing
  1226. [2018-01-20 14:33:07] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I wasn't gonna just go "THIS IS IT WERE DOING THIS"
  1227. [2018-01-20 14:33:13] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> But it's a huge bias
  1228. [2018-01-20 14:33:16] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Since you're the headmin
  1229. [2018-01-20 14:33:18] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I was discussing what to do with the guy who made torch
  1230. [2018-01-20 14:33:24] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> If you wern't in it then it wouldn't be nearly as shady
  1231. [2018-01-20 14:33:24] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> To sum up my reasoning. I don't care for or about this 'Torch 2.0' secret project that 'is being worked on' behind closed doors 'until it's ready'. My proposal to remove Fleet and Marines as separate branches was unrelated to it. It's neither random nor sudden. There is no coherent decision on
  1232. [2018-01-20 14:33:24] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> ""server direciton"" and I don't see one appearing in foreceeble future. So I proposed a change, change got approved by headmin/lorehead.
  1233. [2018-01-20 14:33:28] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> yes and then I had a doc where I asked for the opinions of the entire staff team
  1234. [2018-01-20 14:33:37] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and if it was what we wanted to do (which it seems it wasn't)
  1235. [2018-01-20 14:33:43] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I would've presented it to the community
  1236. [2018-01-20 14:33:53] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @CHINSKY got a google doc on your plans?
  1237. [2018-01-20 14:33:57] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Because it was a massive overhaul of the server
  1238. [2018-01-20 14:33:58] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> It just looks weird.
  1239. [2018-01-20 14:34:01] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> it doesn't need a google doc
  1240. [2018-01-20 14:34:06] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> It's useful
  1241. [2018-01-20 14:34:08] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> But it was never ready and got shelved
  1242. [2018-01-20 14:34:09] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> EC + contractors + NT
  1243. [2018-01-20 14:34:09] <NanoTrasen_Inc> Slots contractors arent cards.
  1244. [2018-01-20 14:34:09] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Or a forum post
  1245. [2018-01-20 14:34:11] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Or anything
  1246. [2018-01-20 14:34:14] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> it had a forum post
  1247. [2018-01-20 14:34:16] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> in GSF
  1248. [2018-01-20 14:34:18] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> jesus
  1249. [2018-01-20 14:34:20] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I can put that line in a google doc sure
  1250. [2018-01-20 14:34:22] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Mmm. I mean realistically just to lay this out clearly, @F-Tang Steve you're very much going a bit nuts over two or three people tossing around ideas in a back channel. There are *dozens* of those involving large sets of different people. Outrage because tog has one is ridiculous.
  1251. [2018-01-20 14:34:40] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> yeah this is... like i said, i agree it's shady
  1252. [2018-01-20 14:34:45] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> but are we supposed to be furious about this
  1253. [2018-01-20 14:34:45] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> @ThatOneGuy I personally dont find the group DM all super terrible, but it's still just more closed door bullshit.
  1254. [2018-01-20 14:34:55] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> ^
  1255. [2018-01-20 14:34:59] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i'm not feeling anything stronger than an urge to "tut tut" and wag a finger
  1256. [2018-01-20 14:34:59] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I wanted to have a working idea before I brought it out
  1257. [2018-01-20 14:35:01] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> is that so bad
  1258. [2018-01-20 14:35:09] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> discord shit aside, it shouldn't be secret as fuck o forums either
  1259. [2018-01-20 14:35:11] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> I think what they were discussing is a bad plan and a meh way to go about it, but whipping yourselves up into a frenzy is neither appropriate not helpful tbh.
  1260. [2018-01-20 14:35:13] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and then when I had one I brought it out to you guy
  1261. [2018-01-20 14:35:32] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> tfw you don't hear about anything except when someone slaps a half completed google doc up or mentions things in dsay.
  1262. [2018-01-20 14:35:34] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Main issue really.
  1263. [2018-01-20 14:35:35] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and you gave your opinions all over the doc
  1264. [2018-01-20 14:35:46] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Communication is sorta shit atm about all the big stuff.
  1265. [2018-01-20 14:35:56] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> As I said it just LOOKS sketchy.
  1266. [2018-01-20 14:35:58] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> My point in sharing it is there's a sentiment of
  1267. [2018-01-20 14:35:59] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @spooky It's because of the bias introduced since ToG is headmin for me. And I apologise for getting that strong about it. I agree that isn't not as big as I was implying. It doesn't set a good precedent.
  1268. [2018-01-20 14:36:02] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> "Eh we got a doc anyway"
  1269. [2018-01-20 14:36:09] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> "So if it goes bad we can PULL OUT THE DOC"
  1270. [2018-01-20 14:36:18] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I like to have my opinions
  1271. [2018-01-20 14:36:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And even if only Meyar holds that sentiment
  1272. [2018-01-20 14:36:24] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> He's the main one giving feedback
  1273. [2018-01-20 14:36:27] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> And when you released the Doc you should have said, "Look guys there is a group DM that we have open for you if you really want to help work on this idea"
  1274. [2018-01-20 14:36:28] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> No one else really talks in it
  1275. [2018-01-20 14:36:36] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> It'd make this situation a whole lot better.
  1276. [2018-01-20 14:36:41] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> have we really used it for anything important tho besides shooting shit
  1277. [2018-01-20 14:36:45] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> like
  1278. [2018-01-20 14:36:46] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> in a while
  1279. [2018-01-20 14:36:50] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Then make it useful
  1280. [2018-01-20 14:36:52] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> is that relevant
  1281. [2018-01-20 14:36:59] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> that's even more slightly frustrating
  1282. [2018-01-20 14:37:05] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> No I'm saying the PM group
  1283. [2018-01-20 14:37:08] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> so i think we established that TOG is chatting with buddies about ideas, none of which have actually touched the server in any tangible way, shape, or form
  1284. [2018-01-20 14:37:09] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> can we move on
  1285. [2018-01-20 14:37:13] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> There've been serious attempts to push ideas
  1286. [2018-01-20 14:37:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> They usually only last 3 messages
  1287. [2018-01-20 14:37:22] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But the attempt exists
  1288. [2018-01-20 14:37:28] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Except for the one that removed marines
  1289. [2018-01-20 14:37:29] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So even if little is accomplished its still *tried*
  1290. [2018-01-20 14:37:30] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> we've been waiting with dicks in hand on the edge of our seats for like months for 2.0 to come out
  1291. [2018-01-20 14:37:30] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> and nothing's really occured besides shooting shit
  1292. [2018-01-20 14:37:31] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> *screams*
  1293. [2018-01-20 14:37:40] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I posted in the thread
  1294. [2018-01-20 14:37:42] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> that it was shelved
  1295. [2018-01-20 14:37:44] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> If it’s not the super secret lore decision canal the silence made it out to seem then whatever really.
  1296. [2018-01-20 14:37:57] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Sounds like a reformation of organization on 2.0 is in order then.
  1297. [2018-01-20 14:37:58] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> cabal not canal lol
  1298. [2018-01-20 14:38:12] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i didn't want to know what a "decision canal" was
  1299. [2018-01-20 14:38:12] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> And even besides that
  1300. [2018-01-20 14:38:19] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I don't think 2.0 is even something we should be going in to
  1301. [2018-01-20 14:38:22] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Bring in people to help, get this ball actuslly rolling.
  1302. [2018-01-20 14:38:24] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> Do like Torch did, make a subforum, or repurpose Torch subforum
  1303. [2018-01-20 14:38:25] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Considering that's not what the community wants
  1304. [2018-01-20 14:38:27] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> just discuss shit there
  1305. [2018-01-20 14:38:42] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> don't 'discuss what community wants' behind closed doors shutting out community 'until its ready'
  1306. [2018-01-20 14:38:56] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> think that's a great takeaway point there.
  1307. [2018-01-20 14:38:58] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Can we publically release 2.0 yet
  1308. [2018-01-20 14:39:03] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> it's been really frustrating to go 'its still secret shh' whenever people ask me to explain wtf this 'torch 2.0' is about
  1309. [2018-01-20 14:39:05] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> yes you can
  1310. [2018-01-20 14:39:06] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We aren't on Torch 2.0 anymore
  1311. [2018-01-20 14:39:08] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We're on Torch 2.1
  1312. [2018-01-20 14:39:08] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Throw it around all you want
  1313. [2018-01-20 14:39:11] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> there isn't even one
  1314. [2018-01-20 14:39:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The NEW DOC
  1315. [2018-01-20 14:39:17] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> the new doc which is like
  1316. [2018-01-20 14:39:18] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Can I say my thingy yet.
  1317. [2018-01-20 14:39:18] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> There's a new doc?
  1318. [2018-01-20 14:39:19] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> 4 lines of comments
  1319. [2018-01-20 14:39:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Yes
  1320. [2018-01-20 14:39:21] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Can I see it?
  1321. [2018-01-20 14:39:21] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Torch 2.1
  1322. [2018-01-20 14:39:31] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I haven't actually read it
  1323. [2018-01-20 14:39:32] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I thought I told you my thoughts steve
  1324. [2018-01-20 14:39:32] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> @Eckles_Fire please rescue us from this circular hell
  1325. [2018-01-20 14:39:37] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> yeah it's kinda useless
  1326. [2018-01-20 14:39:42] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I'm just waiting till everyone's done with this thing.
  1327. [2018-01-20 14:39:43] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Alright, yeah
  1328. [2018-01-20 14:39:43] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> its just me musing ideas from the poll
  1329. [2018-01-20 14:39:46] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> This is frenzied and
  1330. [2018-01-20 14:39:47] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Circular
  1331. [2018-01-20 14:39:52] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> In the words of the great Mordeth
  1332. [2018-01-20 14:39:54] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Put a bow on it.
  1333. [2018-01-20 14:39:56] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I vote eckles says his bit now
  1334. [2018-01-20 14:39:57] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> But jesus guys like 2.0 *isn't a thing*
  1335. [2018-01-20 14:39:59] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> I don’t feel frenzied
  1336. [2018-01-20 14:40:02] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> we're blowing up a small matter pertaining to a project that the community doesn't really want and probably wouldn't see the light of day
  1337. [2018-01-20 14:40:03] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> seriously
  1338. [2018-01-20 14:40:04] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> can we move on
  1339. [2018-01-20 14:40:07] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I agree with Eckles talking
  1340. [2018-01-20 14:40:10] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Be more public with it
  1341. [2018-01-20 14:40:11] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and freaking out because I tried to work in private without getting everyone involved
  1342. [2018-01-20 14:40:12] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> well
  1343. [2018-01-20 14:40:14] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> sorry I guess
  1344. [2018-01-20 14:40:17] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> Ecklepsy when
  1345. [2018-01-20 14:40:20] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> It's best to move on then
  1346. [2018-01-20 14:40:21] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Good attitude tog
  1347. [2018-01-20 14:40:22] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> but man nothing gets done if it's all public forum anymore
  1348. [2018-01-20 14:40:30] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> in this regard
  1349. [2018-01-20 14:40:39] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> and I wanted to have something that can actually be talked about
  1350. [2018-01-20 14:40:43] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> before it was pulled apart
  1351. [2018-01-20 14:40:50] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (pulled apart as in looked over)
  1352. [2018-01-20 14:41:03] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> so that it wouldn't die early early on because some people don't like this aspect of it
  1353. [2018-01-20 14:41:11] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I was trying to be delicate with it
  1354. [2018-01-20 14:41:16] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's not wrong to have a group you trust to consult but my issue is it feels like one person there has been given more credit in their word than the senior staff has
  1355. [2018-01-20 14:41:16] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> but even then
  1356. [2018-01-20 14:41:24] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> it was taken as me just shafting opinions
  1357. [2018-01-20 14:41:26] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I wasn't
  1358. [2018-01-20 14:41:55] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Meyar has just been another voice
  1359. [2018-01-20 14:41:55] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Meyar hasn't played in years so it just feels wrong for him to be
  1360. [2018-01-20 14:41:58] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The biggest consultant
  1361. [2018-01-20 14:42:10] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> I think it's just best to get this meeting rolling again.
  1362. [2018-01-20 14:42:11] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> literally the only shit i give about this entire thing is meyar being included
  1363. [2018-01-20 14:42:14] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> why not grab kocoa while you're at it
  1364. [2018-01-20 14:42:30] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> when can we get Herb Derpman on this
  1365. [2018-01-20 14:42:32] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> meyar stopped playing before kocoa started ¬¬
  1366. [2018-01-20 14:42:50] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> nah he had his brief stint as an adminbus axe killer that no one liked
  1367. [2018-01-20 14:43:06] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ok look this is me also being off topic
  1368. [2018-01-20 14:43:07] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i apologize
  1369. [2018-01-20 14:43:13] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> I don't really count one or two "events" a year as playing.
  1370. [2018-01-20 14:43:20] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Ok I'm sorry that he was in a PM group it wasn't meant to look like I value his opinon over any of yours
  1371. [2018-01-20 14:43:32] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> He was just the one who opened it
  1372. [2018-01-20 14:43:43] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> And I'm sorry that I haven't communicated as well as I should with all of you
  1373. [2018-01-20 14:43:54] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Can we let it go as just “looked sketch” now
  1374. [2018-01-20 14:43:57] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> can we shut up and let @Eckles_Fire say dumb things we can laugh at already
  1375. [2018-01-20 14:44:01] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> please
  1376. [2018-01-20 14:44:04] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> And I'm sorry that I've done some things here that aren't as well looked at
  1377. [2018-01-20 14:44:05] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> agree
  1378. [2018-01-20 14:44:07] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> TOG you're fine dude
  1379. [2018-01-20 14:44:09] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Tog stop
  1380. [2018-01-20 14:44:12] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> stop apologizing aa
  1381. [2018-01-20 14:44:17] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> sorry
  1382. [2018-01-20 14:44:20] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> look he's typing, let him go
  1383. [2018-01-20 14:44:24] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> (eckles that is)
  1384. [2018-01-20 14:44:26] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Bruh I got anxiety problems I'll apologize for like 10 minutes straight
  1385. [2018-01-20 14:44:39] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> as someone with super fucking heavy anxiety i completely feel you on that one. trust us, it's okay right now, we're good
  1386. [2018-01-20 14:44:41] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> `------------------`
  1387. [2018-01-20 14:45:18] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Okay so this is pretty directed at @ThatOneGuy and it's about THE MARINES. Now this is pertaining solely to TOG's decision and responses (Yes Chinsky I know you wanted it and it was your PR and you were pushing it, but TOG okayed it) and mainly I don't see from TOG the *why* it has been done. That
  1388. [2018-01-20 14:45:18] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> is, from an *in game* standpoint it hasn't really done anything except drive a few people away and make security a mess. My main issue there is when I keep asking you *why* you decided to do it the only thing I get is you felt the need to take a "risk" or it was "political". I keep asking you for
  1389. [2018-01-20 14:45:18] <DiscordBridge> <[SYSTEM]> full message from Eckles_Fire: https://ptpb.pw/AINuzvUVMhcBJ-NNPEEZlsvomtLQ
  1390. [2018-01-20 14:45:24] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> There we go I think I got that out in enough words.
  1391. [2018-01-20 14:45:49] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> TL:DR Eckles wants an explanation.
  1392. [2018-01-20 14:45:55] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> yeah, i gotta agree, it felt... really random
  1393. [2018-01-20 14:46:04] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I'm in agreement too
  1394. [2018-01-20 14:46:07] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Aye
  1395. [2018-01-20 14:46:08] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i admit i don't pay a LOT of attention but the marines were just suddenly gone one day and i have no idea why
  1396. [2018-01-20 14:46:10] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> Me too
  1397. [2018-01-20 14:46:10] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ^
  1398. [2018-01-20 14:46:16] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The PR had gone cold for a month
  1399. [2018-01-20 14:46:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> No one was focused on it anymore
  1400. [2018-01-20 14:46:19] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i mean, i don't miss them
  1401. [2018-01-20 14:46:22] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> but why are they gone
  1402. [2018-01-20 14:46:24] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And then it suddenly got merged
  1403. [2018-01-20 14:48:18] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I personally wasn't happy with it as I main a marine character and it was very much so out of the blue - But that's my remarks on it
  1404. [2018-01-20 14:48:53] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Like I said I have 0 problem with changes or stuff being removed but I very much appreciate a reason and discussion on it going and the impact.
  1405. [2018-01-20 14:48:55] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> That goes for anything.
  1406. [2018-01-20 14:49:06] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> I think it would have accomplished more back when I was going for it originally and marines were actually a hive of scum and villainy. These days they just sort of exist because all of the problem people moved on or got banned. *That said*, I can see it being useful simply in terms of reducing
  1407. [2018-01-20 14:49:06] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> complexity and putting a department to rest that had spent the, what, last two years as an afterthought, and a stub, and a constant point of low level contention about how they should be played and even what their role is.
  1408. [2018-01-20 14:49:08] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> But dat me.
  1409. [2018-01-20 14:49:27] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/274952400358473728/404371527384170537/unknown.png
  1410. [2018-01-20 14:49:28] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> you're not people spookerton
  1411. [2018-01-20 14:49:39] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> This feels like it was relevant to the decision
  1412. [2018-01-20 14:49:43] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> *squints*
  1413. [2018-01-20 14:49:52] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Merely adding here
  1414. [2018-01-20 14:49:55] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> also I had a marine character too btw
  1415. [2018-01-20 14:49:58] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> two in fact
  1416. [2018-01-20 14:50:00] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> hm
  1417. [2018-01-20 14:50:07] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> oh my god not again
  1418. [2018-01-20 14:50:13] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ok lemme finish this word wall
  1419. [2018-01-20 14:50:19] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (omg is directed at the photo)
  1420. [2018-01-20 14:50:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> In TOG's defense If I may
  1421. [2018-01-20 14:50:29] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> There's a lot of group chats we're both in like that so far as
  1422. [2018-01-20 14:50:33] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Unwanted "advice"
  1423. [2018-01-20 14:50:41] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Where the best course is to just go "mhm yeah sure"
  1424. [2018-01-20 14:50:41] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> tfw noone invites u to their cabals.
  1425. [2018-01-20 14:50:46] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Otherwise they'll just chase you down
  1426. [2018-01-20 14:50:50] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> guys i hope you're not equating that screenshot to TOG being on meyar's leash
  1427. [2018-01-20 14:50:54] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> I'm not
  1428. [2018-01-20 14:51:00] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> @Eckles_Fire anyone not in at least 7 cabals is a scrublord
  1429. [2018-01-20 14:51:02] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> _waits on word-wall._
  1430. [2018-01-20 14:51:08] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @F-Tang Steve I am in 0 cabals.
  1431. [2018-01-20 14:51:09] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> *joins the waiting*
  1432. [2018-01-20 14:51:09] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> When need a cabal that rounds up all the cabals
  1433. [2018-01-20 14:51:10] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> I'm pointing out that ontop of the decision being described as random and political
  1434. [2018-01-20 14:51:14] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> 🔥 🔥 🔥
  1435. [2018-01-20 14:51:18] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I am in *angry shouts in staff-room* cabal.
  1436. [2018-01-20 14:51:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The biggest example is a former admin that's been gone since at least September?
  1437. [2018-01-20 14:51:25] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> He regularly tries to give "advice"
  1438. [2018-01-20 14:51:36] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Which is trash we ignore
  1439. [2018-01-20 14:51:44] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> @F-Tang Steve Did you know that me an chinsky are in like 3 different IRC-only cabals?
  1440. [2018-01-20 14:51:52] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Just because you can find a screenshot of someone saying "mhm" doesn't mean that's the reason
  1441. [2018-01-20 14:51:58] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Sounds like I need to join IRC
  1442. [2018-01-20 14:52:00] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Oh that reminds me @Crushtoe where does #bs12admin go on IRC
  1443. [2018-01-20 14:52:03] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Like that's mirrored here.
  1444. [2018-01-20 14:52:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> To #ahelps
  1445. [2018-01-20 14:52:08] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Oh huh.
  1446. [2018-01-20 14:52:16] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> uh no it's just #bs12admin on IRC
  1447. [2018-01-20 14:52:22] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I even have it so I can laugh at nerds
  1448. [2018-01-20 14:52:27] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @ParadoxSpace remember when I did that public thing and literally got hate mail from staff like lonefly for daring to even write something and then ask for input and changes
  1449. [2018-01-20 14:52:29] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> and sometimes answer a bug ahelp maybe
  1450. [2018-01-20 14:52:30] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> That was a good time right
  1451. [2018-01-20 14:52:32] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Chinsky you'rse a Mod+ get to work
  1452. [2018-01-20 14:52:33] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> No he's asking what is #bs12admins mirrored to
  1453. [2018-01-20 14:52:36] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Answer some ahelps.
  1454. [2018-01-20 14:52:38] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> He said it wrong but
  1455. [2018-01-20 14:52:40] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> never
  1456. [2018-01-20 14:52:44] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> @spooky what public thing?
  1457. [2018-01-20 14:52:44] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I'll fight you.
  1458. [2018-01-20 14:53:17] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @ParadoxSpace the original reshuffle that didn't happen in the end because it got mired in crap and xeno officers
  1459. [2018-01-20 14:53:25] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> And now we have xeno officers!
  1460. [2018-01-20 14:53:27] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> oh your proposal?
  1461. [2018-01-20 14:53:29] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> ye
  1462. [2018-01-20 14:53:30] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> ..Just not heads of staff.
  1463. [2018-01-20 14:53:40] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> Don't need xeno heads of staff
  1464. [2018-01-20 14:53:41] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Conversations are going left and right right now.
  1465. [2018-01-20 14:53:51] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> It's just the lul while we wait for TOG's response.
  1466. [2018-01-20 14:54:16] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i ate my last toaster strudels and now i'm out
  1467. [2018-01-20 14:54:18] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> I hate the strawman of people going 'muh heads of staff'
  1468. [2018-01-20 14:54:20] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> fuck baystation i have real problems
  1469. [2018-01-20 14:54:24] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Yeah let's stop for tog
  1470. [2018-01-20 14:54:26] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @Earthcrusher you have failed us
  1471. [2018-01-20 14:54:28] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Because he had a response he's typing
  1472. [2018-01-20 14:54:29] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So
  1473. [2018-01-20 14:54:36] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ⏸
  1474. [2018-01-20 14:54:37] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @Earthcrusher Eat poptarts instead
  1475. [2018-01-20 14:54:38] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> k
  1476. [2018-01-20 14:54:39] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Man ok look. CHIN had been waiting for me to make a decision on it and I thought it best if just Marines were removed because A. I do not think the number of factions aboard the ship has been helpful to the server, and I think we should have less with stronger backgrounds. To me Marines are only
  1477. [2018-01-20 14:54:39] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> different to Fleet by their uniform, and them as their own branch has always been Americana (something people have complained about for a loooonnggg time). B. This same thing has popped up..how many times now? And would continue to pop up. Rather than let it persist for a long time I decided it
  1478. [2018-01-20 14:54:39] <DiscordBridge> <[SYSTEM]> full message from ThatOneGuy: https://ptpb.pw/AANAqSu4HnGM3MaFWPmgEx6tAsr0
  1479. [2018-01-20 14:55:12] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Right, but what did it improve.
  1480. [2018-01-20 14:55:29] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Given that it's a social and complexity change
  1481. [2018-01-20 14:55:33] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> I'd say it's too soon to know.
  1482. [2018-01-20 14:55:37] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Fuck knows, wait and see
  1483. [2018-01-20 14:55:45] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> it's solved most sec cliques
  1484. [2018-01-20 14:55:46] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> :^)
  1485. [2018-01-20 14:55:47] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I hadn't play yet even since that chance 😮
  1486. [2018-01-20 14:55:52] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Well it seems to have caused more issues than improvements than I expected in the immediate aftermath. It's been what..less than two weeks since it happened?
  1487. [2018-01-20 14:56:01] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> what issues tho?
  1488. [2018-01-20 14:56:04] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> People have only come to me with negative insults about not being able to play a character
  1489. [2018-01-20 14:56:04] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's caused more OOC conflict
  1490. [2018-01-20 14:56:05] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> forums aside
  1491. [2018-01-20 14:56:06] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> @ParadoxSpace pls
  1492. [2018-01-20 14:56:07] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> IC seems to be the same
  1493. [2018-01-20 14:56:07] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> What did you *expect* it to improve and how.
  1494. [2018-01-20 14:56:15] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> @ThatOneGuy I mean I haven't noticed any issues in the game.
  1495. [2018-01-20 14:56:20] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> direct them to me @ThatOneGuy tbh
  1496. [2018-01-20 14:56:21] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It's just less flavor of "now you can't have marine on your nametag"
  1497. [2018-01-20 14:56:25] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So
  1498. [2018-01-20 14:56:29] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Tastes same
  1499. [2018-01-20 14:56:35] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Slightly less rank to memorize for newbies
  1500. [2018-01-20 14:56:38] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Less complexity to the setting
  1501. [2018-01-20 14:56:39] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Isn’t all lore flavor
  1502. [2018-01-20 14:56:39] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Which is nice
  1503. [2018-01-20 14:56:52] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> All lore is flavor but some flavor is stronger than others
  1504. [2018-01-20 14:56:56] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I think that's what lore is, at the core we're a spessmen game where antags fight people on a ship.
  1505. [2018-01-20 14:57:00] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Marine lore was basically "it hooah u liek jarhed" tho
  1506. [2018-01-20 14:57:03] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The fact you can actually play a marine is more useful than knowing the lore of
  1507. [2018-01-20 14:57:09] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Psi Omicron Nineteen
  1508. [2018-01-20 14:57:14] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i mean yeah, i gotta be honest, i think the change was *minimal* on the game and chiefly just affected people having to retire/reconfigure their favorite characters
  1509. [2018-01-20 14:57:17] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> it was just how it came out of nowhere
  1510. [2018-01-20 14:57:31] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> if you'd legit just said "ok they're gonna be gone in 3 days, make your peace" that would have been alright
  1511. [2018-01-20 14:57:46] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ^
  1512. [2018-01-20 14:57:48] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> it's been in making for a month at least, I forgot you plebs don't refresh github 20 times a minute like me
  1513. [2018-01-20 14:57:54] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Well it was stale af
  1514. [2018-01-20 14:58:00] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i only refresh github to see if my money cannon's been merged
  1515. [2018-01-20 14:58:02] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> what if we revert that thing, say you have 3 days, and then unrevert it
  1516. [2018-01-20 14:58:07] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> That PR was so buried at that point
  1517. [2018-01-20 14:58:09] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Still feel we should pop them back in honestly. Really wasn't hurting anything. But that's just me.
  1518. [2018-01-20 14:58:16] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> No thx.
  1519. [2018-01-20 14:58:20] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i mean i don't
  1520. [2018-01-20 14:58:20] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> At least gone, they're gone.
  1521. [2018-01-20 14:58:41] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> If we're gonna pop them back in
  1522. [2018-01-20 14:58:44] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> because people seriously were getting cliquey and toxic about marines
  1523. [2018-01-20 14:58:51] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Adding them back right now prevents us from seeing the long term effect of removing them
  1524. [2018-01-20 14:58:51] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> It should be in a different form than what they were
  1525. [2018-01-20 14:58:56] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> For example Tech's idea
  1526. [2018-01-20 14:58:57] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> i don't miss the sec clique
  1527. [2018-01-20 14:58:58] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> at all
  1528. [2018-01-20 14:58:58] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> I prefer them gone
  1529. [2018-01-20 14:58:59] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I mean I could say the same about the "explorer cliques" you sometimes see.
  1530. [2018-01-20 14:58:59] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> or asset protection
  1531. [2018-01-20 14:59:01] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> or something
  1532. [2018-01-20 14:59:01] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> etc.
  1533. [2018-01-20 14:59:09] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Not a full branch
  1534. [2018-01-20 14:59:09] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> explorers don't have a license to do it
  1535. [2018-01-20 14:59:11] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> One of those fads that comes and goes.
  1536. [2018-01-20 14:59:14] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> Explorers clique died with exoplanets were removed for a long while
  1537. [2018-01-20 14:59:15] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Because in the end, months from now, this may be a nice change.
  1538. [2018-01-20 14:59:22] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i've never seen explorer cliques sit in deadchat and spam it with how much everyone's milRP sucks
  1539. [2018-01-20 14:59:30] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I think that was just a couple people.
  1540. [2018-01-20 14:59:37] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I was in explorer clique on two rounds
  1541. [2018-01-20 14:59:41] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Anyway this is tailing off into infinity so
  1542. [2018-01-20 14:59:43] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Is that really a marine clique or just people who like milRP
  1543. [2018-01-20 14:59:45] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Who had poor attitudes, I don't think it was a result of them playing marines.
  1544. [2018-01-20 14:59:51] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Isn't the current topic still poll results
  1545. [2018-01-20 14:59:52] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> those people are almost always propping up the marines, so
  1546. [2018-01-20 15:00:00] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Do we have anything else to crucify tog for, or is it over. I'm lost.
  1547. [2018-01-20 15:00:07] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Crucify.
  1548. [2018-01-20 15:00:09] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Well, the topic was server setting crush.
  1549. [2018-01-20 15:00:11] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I had a legitimate concern :/
  1550. [2018-01-20 15:00:13] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> he's not a real texan he's canadian
  1551. [2018-01-20 15:00:21] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> No I'm exaggerating for comedic effect you see
  1552. [2018-01-20 15:00:22] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> jesus chinsky
  1553. [2018-01-20 15:00:27] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> you can't say that
  1554. [2018-01-20 15:00:28] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Which you shouldn’t
  1555. [2018-01-20 15:00:37] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @spooky You aren't very funny ur too serious for that.
  1556. [2018-01-20 15:00:45] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Spook legit scariest person in staff.
  1557. [2018-01-20 15:00:49] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> just count apologies @Earthcrusher you can't argue with stats
  1558. [2018-01-20 15:00:52] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> 👀
  1559. [2018-01-20 15:00:52] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> We may want to move to the next topics
  1560. [2018-01-20 15:00:58] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Since we're runinng around now
  1561. [2018-01-20 15:00:58] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i mean he's not wrong, we're seriously digging into TOG more than is warranted and we ought to chill
  1562. [2018-01-20 15:01:06] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> On that subject, there's kinda a oroborus of "Fleet isn't srs milRP" and "I like srs milRP so play marines, not fleet"
  1563. [2018-01-20 15:01:12] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> so I play*
  1564. [2018-01-20 15:01:14] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> <:TEXAS:328842339034333184>
  1565. [2018-01-20 15:01:16] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Make fleet srs milRP
  1566. [2018-01-20 15:01:28] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> it should be
  1567. [2018-01-20 15:01:28] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I would love it if Fleet was more "srs MilRP"
  1568. [2018-01-20 15:01:32] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> pointing out his mistakes is good; doing the political bullshit like the meyar screenshots and accusing him of making cabals is not
  1569. [2018-01-20 15:01:34] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> but also that means basically
  1570. [2018-01-20 15:01:34] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Fleet is srs milrp. If people are unseriousing, suggest that they play EC instead.
  1571. [2018-01-20 15:01:35] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> more words
  1572. [2018-01-20 15:01:35] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> That requires like, more OOC enforcement on people rocking Fleet and just not having a clue though.
  1573. [2018-01-20 15:01:48] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> We need good SEAs
  1574. [2018-01-20 15:01:49] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> We're pretty hands off on most of the people just picking w/e.
  1575. [2018-01-20 15:01:56] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Playing SEA with a bad CO is literal pain.
  1576. [2018-01-20 15:01:57] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> 98.5% of people pick branch based on uniform
  1577. [2018-01-20 15:01:59] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Also on SEAs I think we should move it back to whitelist
  1578. [2018-01-20 15:02:00] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I don't fault people for not picking it.
  1579. [2018-01-20 15:02:00] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i think there'd be merit to leaving out the marines and overhauling fleet a bit so they're not just "EC but you have to be stern and unfriendly"
  1580. [2018-01-20 15:02:11] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> at least for a little while
  1581. [2018-01-20 15:02:12] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> like, jobs only they can do, etc
  1582. [2018-01-20 15:02:15] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Oh no, whitelist jobs
  1583. [2018-01-20 15:02:15] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Or, you know... integrating the Marines playerbase into the Fleet playerbase?
  1584. [2018-01-20 15:02:21] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> 👀
  1585. [2018-01-20 15:02:21] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ^that too
  1586. [2018-01-20 15:02:31] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We really need to time how long a topic takes
  1587. [2018-01-20 15:02:33] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Chrono originally you had to be approved by Raptor so
  1588. [2018-01-20 15:02:42] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> I know that, but still
  1589. [2018-01-20 15:02:43] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I agree with @Crushtoe
  1590. [2018-01-20 15:02:44] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @Techhead But the issue there is your plan is basically "Say you're a marine" but not have ranks/uniforms, which is what people really *see* ultimately.
  1591. [2018-01-20 15:02:48] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I used to
  1592. [2018-01-20 15:02:48] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Oh yeah SEA was originally a whitelist job
  1593. [2018-01-20 15:02:49] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> We can finish this on the forums
  1594. [2018-01-20 15:02:52] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Whitelisting jobs is always a hot topic
  1595. [2018-01-20 15:02:54] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It wasn't neccessarily bad?
  1596. [2018-01-20 15:02:55] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> but we've also bounced between a few things
  1597. [2018-01-20 15:02:55] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Just...
  1598. [2018-01-20 15:02:58] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> It was never filled
  1599. [2018-01-20 15:03:01] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> yeah
  1600. [2018-01-20 15:03:06] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So if you want a job to only be filled by the rare specialist
  1601. [2018-01-20 15:03:08] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Then it's good
  1602. [2018-01-20 15:03:08] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> yeah, there's more to talk about but i agree this topic is monopolizing time
  1603. [2018-01-20 15:03:13] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But if you want it regularly played
  1604. [2018-01-20 15:03:16] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Then it's not so good
  1605. [2018-01-20 15:03:17] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Gonna move on
  1606. [2018-01-20 15:03:18] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> We have hit the 2H mark, FTR.
  1607. [2018-01-20 15:03:22] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Yep.
  1608. [2018-01-20 15:03:27] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We're 2 topics in
  1609. [2018-01-20 15:03:31] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> With 10 microtopics
  1610. [2018-01-20 15:03:32] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> when's the pizza going to be brought out I was told there would be pizza
  1611. [2018-01-20 15:03:37] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> AI test topic when
  1612. [2018-01-20 15:03:41] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> AI when @ThatOneGuy gogogo
  1613. [2018-01-20 15:03:42] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> @CHINSKY donate to the meeting fund.
  1614. [2018-01-20 15:03:47] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> ugh
  1615. [2018-01-20 15:03:48] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Then we can globally order everyone pizza at once.
  1616. [2018-01-20 15:03:57] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ***The AI Test*** is our next topic
  1617. [2018-01-20 15:04:02] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> YEAH
  1618. [2018-01-20 15:04:03] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> YEAHHHH
  1619. [2018-01-20 15:04:12] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> rip
  1620. [2018-01-20 15:04:24] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> yeah rip
  1621. [2018-01-20 15:04:24] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I legitimately enjoyed not having the AI around, but that's just me. It let antags do shit without getting caught every 5 seconds and being bolted down.
  1622. [2018-01-20 15:04:42] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> yeah i loved not having the AI
  1623. [2018-01-20 15:04:44] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> It also caused antags to do things that *didn't* revolve around taking out/subverting the AI.
  1624. [2018-01-20 15:04:45] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I feel it's the same as having no AI for a round but for several rounds.
  1625. [2018-01-20 15:04:47] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> I actually did too
  1626. [2018-01-20 15:04:49] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> having the AI now just feels like i'm in 1984
  1627. [2018-01-20 15:04:50] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> do we want to discuss the overarching consequences or give feedback
  1628. [2018-01-20 15:04:50] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> My stance is kinda like with cloning. I don't like it, but I don't think removal would be good at all. It's even worse than cloning because instead of just adjusting lethality of stuff / adding alt method to things, it's just tied in a lot of systems.
  1629. [2018-01-20 15:04:50] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> honestly I just wanna see if you guys think it's done really well and we should keep it or not
  1630. [2018-01-20 15:04:52] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> But mainly what I *don't* miss at all is malf.
  1631. [2018-01-20 15:04:54] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> because just saying, there's a forum thread
  1632. [2018-01-20 15:04:57] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> It was indeed nice
  1633. [2018-01-20 15:04:58] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I think that we should have mechanical changes to help mitigate the issues with AI but keep it
  1634. [2018-01-20 15:04:59] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> `Malf is horrid.
  1635. [2018-01-20 15:05:00] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I believe we should bring back AI.
  1636. [2018-01-20 15:05:07] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> @CHINSKY what would you suggest
  1637. [2018-01-20 15:05:11] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> hell, i used to only get to play lowpop, i didn't even notice a difference with no AI
  1638. [2018-01-20 15:05:13] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Rather than nuking the AI I'd rather see adjustments made to how its able to do things
  1639. [2018-01-20 15:05:16] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I dunno, it'll all involve effort
  1640. [2018-01-20 15:05:16] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ^
  1641. [2018-01-20 15:05:19] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Fix what people don't like about AI and stuff but don't remove the AI as a whole
  1642. [2018-01-20 15:05:23] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Having No AI had it's frustrating points since I mainly play Corpsman, but i didnt see much a problem with them being gone.
  1643. [2018-01-20 15:05:23] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> the game is so easy without an AI and i think players are lazy about it
  1644. [2018-01-20 15:05:24] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Remove antag AI at all imo
  1645. [2018-01-20 15:05:24] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> and I don't feel strongly about this issue to apply effort needed
  1646. [2018-01-20 15:05:26] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> You know
  1647. [2018-01-20 15:05:33] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Like fixing its abilities to lockdown doors instantly
  1648. [2018-01-20 15:05:34] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Because currently what I'm thinking is:
  1649. [2018-01-20 15:05:37] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> The problem with making the AI 2018 level is it'd take a shitload of work
  1650. [2018-01-20 15:05:39] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Enforce better play
  1651. [2018-01-20 15:05:42] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Honestly I'd settle for just removing malf.
  1652. [2018-01-20 15:05:43] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> *Remove Malf
  1653. [2018-01-20 15:05:45] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Malf is just a horrible mode.
  1654. [2018-01-20 15:05:46] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> god, yes
  1655. [2018-01-20 15:05:49] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> having no AI was nice because i could do literally anything without a giant fucking computer yelling it over every channel
  1656. [2018-01-20 15:05:52] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> I'd be fine with nixing malf
  1657. [2018-01-20 15:05:55] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> malf barely worked on exodus, it's terrible on torch
  1658. [2018-01-20 15:05:57] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> *Keep AI and discuss how to imrpove it overall
  1659. [2018-01-20 15:06:05] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> 'HELLO SECURITY THIS IS THE AI HE'S CURRENTLY AT EXACT COORDINATES'
  1660. [2018-01-20 15:06:13] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> I've actually got
  1661. [2018-01-20 15:06:13] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> *screams*
  1662. [2018-01-20 15:06:16] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> p much, I think it should be castrated instead of killed :^)
  1663. [2018-01-20 15:06:16] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> *If nothing gets improved, bring back up removing it
  1664. [2018-01-20 15:06:19] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> \*cough ECOM cough\*
  1665. [2018-01-20 15:06:27] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> My opinion: AI needs cameras to be helpful, which means ALWAYS WATCHING.
  1666. [2018-01-20 15:06:30] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Suggested changes if a coder would be willing provide directions
  1667. [2018-01-20 15:06:35] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ECOM didn't do anything without being asked though
  1668. [2018-01-20 15:06:37] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Let me just pull them up
  1669. [2018-01-20 15:06:39] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Or very little at least
  1670. [2018-01-20 15:06:41] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Reduce camera-reliance and we can reduce cameras.
  1671. [2018-01-20 15:06:48] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I think that:
  1672. [2018-01-20 15:06:48] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> 1) have the AI not able to see names of people through camera
  1673. [2018-01-20 15:06:48] <DiscordBridge> <[SYSTEM]> full message from F-Tang Steve: https://ptpb.pw/ADcZ9XEM-LDXs_Rg67bRYZs3aePk
  1674. [2018-01-20 15:06:51] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Shadowrun Matrix when.
  1675. [2018-01-20 15:07:02] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> That works yeah
  1676. [2018-01-20 15:07:08] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I kind of like making it work with sensors
  1677. [2018-01-20 15:07:09] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Also remove malf.
  1678. [2018-01-20 15:07:12] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I mean honestly we don't need to go into huuugee detail here
  1679. [2018-01-20 15:07:13] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> They can say "someone is doing X" but not who
  1680. [2018-01-20 15:07:20] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Intruder in Room X
  1681. [2018-01-20 15:07:22] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But not identify who it is
  1682. [2018-01-20 15:07:22] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> But yes, I can't support removing AI fully
  1683. [2018-01-20 15:07:29] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Very much like
  1684. [2018-01-20 15:07:29] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> - Nix jumping to someone if suit sensors are off
  1685. [2018-01-20 15:07:29] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> - Nix camera alarms
  1686. [2018-01-20 15:07:29] <DiscordBridge> <[SYSTEM]> full message from Spooky: https://ptpb.pw/AIMCPKiivq12DMvMMiAvx4pW_IKo
  1687. [2018-01-20 15:07:35] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Also delay on door bolting
  1688. [2018-01-20 15:07:37] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Stop the AI from shocking doors maybe.
  1689. [2018-01-20 15:07:41] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> So there's a warning and people can escape through it
  1690. [2018-01-20 15:07:42] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Why is the AI able to electrify doors anyway.
  1691. [2018-01-20 15:07:43] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We have an item that tells you if the AI is tracking you
  1692. [2018-01-20 15:07:51] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> COuld make it double as having a disable tracking entirely mode
  1693. [2018-01-20 15:07:54] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Eh, I think if you're wearing ID AI should see your name.
  1694. [2018-01-20 15:07:58] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Well, it tells you when the AI can *see* you
  1695. [2018-01-20 15:07:59] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Specifically
  1696. [2018-01-20 15:08:00] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> They're not supposed to
  1697. [2018-01-20 15:08:02] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Delay on door bolting with a visual or/and audio warning woild be fantastic
  1698. [2018-01-20 15:08:03] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> How can the AI see your ID
  1699. [2018-01-20 15:08:12] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> But yes, we can talk specifics later
  1700. [2018-01-20 15:08:14] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> RFID more than actually seeing it
  1701. [2018-01-20 15:08:14] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> bolting has message and sound
  1702. [2018-01-20 15:08:15] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i thought about visualizing shocked doors as a coder project
  1703. [2018-01-20 15:08:16] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> RFID chips.
  1704. [2018-01-20 15:08:18] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Yeah.
  1705. [2018-01-20 15:08:19] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> But its there because its just the door hacking interface
  1706. [2018-01-20 15:08:22] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> soo remove malf y/y
  1707. [2018-01-20 15:08:34] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Do a PSF thing to let players air grievances
  1708. [2018-01-20 15:08:36] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Also....
  1709. [2018-01-20 15:08:37] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> @CHINSKY hey nerd, how feasible is it to have a door produce an ambient humming noise when you go near it
  1710. [2018-01-20 15:08:41] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But lean heavily towards pushing for removal
  1711. [2018-01-20 15:08:42] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> ez pz
  1712. [2018-01-20 15:08:44] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> Antags already have camera jammer.
  1713. [2018-01-20 15:08:45] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> #nice
  1714. [2018-01-20 15:08:46] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> So we're in agreement then? *Remove Malf *Keep AI but castrate it *
  1715. [2018-01-20 15:08:47] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Overall: AI should be kept, malf should be worked into traitor, AI should have mechanical adjustments
  1716. [2018-01-20 15:08:58] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> AI should be dickless yes
  1717. [2018-01-20 15:09:02] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> > malf should be worked into traitor
  1718. [2018-01-20 15:09:03] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> holy shit yes
  1719. [2018-01-20 15:09:06] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> regular traitor AI suuuuucks
  1720. [2018-01-20 15:09:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ^
  1721. [2018-01-20 15:09:13] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> actually can we add one more on there
  1722. [2018-01-20 15:09:15] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> tbh antag ai sucks
  1723. [2018-01-20 15:09:16] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I feel if you did that though it'd just turn each round into a malf round.
  1724. [2018-01-20 15:09:17] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Im for axing or reworking malf
  1725. [2018-01-20 15:09:19] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> make it impossible to be a traitor borg with a non-traitor AI
  1726. [2018-01-20 15:09:23] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> you may as well fucking store yourself
  1727. [2018-01-20 15:09:30] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I mean a malf AI which starts harming traitors is just like
  1728. [2018-01-20 15:09:33] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Antag AIs needs some balancing at the moment
  1729. [2018-01-20 15:09:34] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Gonna make those traitors storm it.
  1730. [2018-01-20 15:09:39] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> And kill it with their OP traitor tools
  1731. [2018-01-20 15:09:41] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> And here I was gonna suggest "malf AI gets uplink and can teleport traitor items anywhere it can see"
  1732. [2018-01-20 15:09:47] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> os/malf/traitor
  1733. [2018-01-20 15:09:47] <NanoTrasen_Inc> <DiscordBridge-Techhead> And here I was gonna suggest "traitor AI gets uplink and can teleport traitor items anywhere it can see"
  1734. [2018-01-20 15:09:49] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I think ax antag AI
  1735. [2018-01-20 15:09:59] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Axe antag AI until a better built replacement exists
  1736. [2018-01-20 15:10:02] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Antag AI is doable with mechanical balances
  1737. [2018-01-20 15:10:03] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Also the AI suddenly getting malf mid-traitor round is..
  1738. [2018-01-20 15:10:04] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> Not fun.
  1739. [2018-01-20 15:10:07] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If someone can make an actually good replacement
  1740. [2018-01-20 15:10:07] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> hah, make the tater AI a support unit
  1741. [2018-01-20 15:10:08] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Then sure
  1742. [2018-01-20 15:10:08] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> that'd be neat
  1743. [2018-01-20 15:10:13] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> No AI had about the exact outcome everyone imagined it would IMO. Things were generally better and more chaotic, with more freedom for everyone on the server, and only really lacking the convenience of "ai door".
  1744. [2018-01-20 15:10:13] <DiscordBridge> <spooky>
  1745. [2018-01-20 15:10:13] <DiscordBridge> <[SYSTEM]> full message from spooky: https://ptpb.pw/AIoJMOy9Iviw_3VJbtPw1LDa8-sN
  1746. [2018-01-20 15:10:55] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Well no
  1747. [2018-01-20 15:11:03] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Lacking of the convenience of having an AI
  1748. [2018-01-20 15:11:12] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> No doors, no APC reboots, no remote checks
  1749. [2018-01-20 15:11:14] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Also people couldn't play AI which is a fun role
  1750. [2018-01-20 15:11:19] <DiscordBridge> <Techhead> *Currently* (unless TOG fixed it) Malf is vote or adminbus only, it's not in secret still.
  1751. [2018-01-20 15:11:26] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> And that
  1752. [2018-01-20 15:11:27] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> It can be adjusted without being removed
  1753. [2018-01-20 15:11:34] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> We can open a forum topic on malf
  1754. [2018-01-20 15:11:35] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Robots and engineers exist @Spooky
  1755. [2018-01-20 15:11:40] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> AI has been removed from people who enjoy it as a unique role- its not just a branch or an alt title
  1756. [2018-01-20 15:11:44] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I did want to open a discussion yeah
  1757. [2018-01-20 15:11:44] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> But let's move on to the next topic
  1758. [2018-01-20 15:11:46] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> Oh also on the subject of AIs, I think they could stand to be decoupled from the round a bit. I'd like to be able to have an AI that isn't listed on the roster.
  1759. [2018-01-20 15:11:51] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Lean heavily towards change but give a chance to suggest
  1760. [2018-01-20 15:11:56] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Change being removal if no change is found
  1761. [2018-01-20 15:11:57] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> the only thing the AI really brought
  1762. [2018-01-20 15:11:58] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> was yes
  1763. [2018-01-20 15:11:59] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> 'AI door'
  1764. [2018-01-20 15:12:04] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> the only /problems/ we had during the test
  1765. [2018-01-20 15:12:04] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I disagree but
  1766. [2018-01-20 15:12:04] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> was 'AI door'
  1767. [2018-01-20 15:12:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  1768. [2018-01-20 15:12:07] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> No
  1769. [2018-01-20 15:12:07] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We're going in circles
  1770. [2018-01-20 15:12:10] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Which helps nothing
  1771. [2018-01-20 15:12:11] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> *circles*
  1772. [2018-01-20 15:12:13] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> APC resets during Ion storms
  1773. [2018-01-20 15:12:13] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> also 'AI where wizard'
  1774. [2018-01-20 15:12:14] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> What's our next topic?
  1775. [2018-01-20 15:12:16] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> YEah
  1776. [2018-01-20 15:12:18] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Next topic.
  1777. [2018-01-20 15:12:22] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ayyyyyyyyy
  1778. [2018-01-20 15:12:23] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> next topic
  1779. [2018-01-20 15:12:29] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ***Centralized Punishment***
  1780. [2018-01-20 15:12:37] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I have a thing for this
  1781. [2018-01-20 15:12:41] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> OK NOW EVERYONE
  1782. [2018-01-20 15:12:41] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> I say only for permabanned peeps
  1783. [2018-01-20 15:12:45] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> wait for Crush to speak
  1784. [2018-01-20 15:12:46] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Pls let me speak
  1785. [2018-01-20 15:12:46] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> ok
  1786. [2018-01-20 15:12:47] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> he has thing
  1787. [2018-01-20 15:12:50] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> shhhhhhhhh
  1788. [2018-01-20 15:12:51] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ⏸
  1789. [2018-01-20 15:12:54] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> psst nerds can you list the 'many more' other 'microtopics'?
  1790. [2018-01-20 15:13:05] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> just so I know if I need ot hang out or is it your bureaucratic shit after this
  1791. [2018-01-20 15:13:22] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The proposal I am about to make is not the definitive decision, nor the main course of action. It's only the decision I've thought up for handling the ban thing.
  1792. [2018-01-20 15:13:25] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> lemme look
  1793. [2018-01-20 15:13:30] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> after this is the wiki i believe @CHINSKY
  1794. [2018-01-20 15:13:36] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> There is still room for entire other suggestions.
  1795. [2018-01-20 15:13:44] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Alright?
  1796. [2018-01-20 15:13:54] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> (ALso @spooky can you update)
  1797. [2018-01-20 15:13:59] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (state of the wiki, response to disliked decisions, amphibibros)
  1798. [2018-01-20 15:14:03] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> _raises pitchfork in preparation_
  1799. [2018-01-20 15:14:28] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> oh responsibilitie
  1800. [2018-01-20 15:14:29] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> s
  1801. [2018-01-20 15:14:33] <DiscordBridge> <masterrbc> *raises Kangaroo's*
  1802. [2018-01-20 15:14:33] <DiscordBridge> <CHINSKY> I guess that's my cue to disappear
  1803. [2018-01-20 15:14:35] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> you're probably good chinsky.
  1804. [2018-01-20 15:15:11] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So, the suggestion is as follows:
  1805. [2018-01-20 15:15:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe>
  1806. [2018-01-20 15:15:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If a user is permabanned from the server, they may at any time be banned from the Forum, Discord, or IRC by a community moderator for any reason, regardless of if a definitive rule was broken, assuming that it was not for some incident they were not personally involved in.
  1807. [2018-01-20 15:15:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The reason for this method is as follows:
  1808. [2018-01-20 15:15:39] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> * Not every permaban *requires* banning them from all mediums. A Ban Until Appeal for hiding in a locker doesn't mean we need to lock you out of the Discord.
  1809. [2018-01-20 15:15:58] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> * It's hard to draw a definitive line on what timed bans are good for being banned whenever.
  1810. [2018-01-20 15:16:01] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And that's it.
  1811. [2018-01-20 15:16:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> A footnote:
  1812. [2018-01-20 15:16:11] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Any ban issued in this way would be conditional.
  1813. [2018-01-20 15:16:18] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If the server ban is lifted, the community ban is lifted.
  1814. [2018-01-20 15:16:43] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Can I request a time until appeal for a ban until appeal thingy? Some kind of thing where if you don't appeal a ban for 3 months or whatever you get community banned or something so people aren't stirring up stuff when they're not planning on appealing.
  1815. [2018-01-20 15:16:46] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Essentially, once they fuck up on the server, they're on thin ice and it's up to you if you think they broke it.
  1816. [2018-01-20 15:16:50] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> if Jeff Spaceman is a toxic piece of shit or releases 50 slimes on the CO and loses his Bay privileges, why do we want him in Discord or on the forums?
  1817. [2018-01-20 15:17:06] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i'm not trying to be accusatory i legitimately do not understand the reason to keep them around
  1818. [2018-01-20 15:17:07] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If he's toxic then you can go to ban him immediately.
  1819. [2018-01-20 15:17:26] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> it just seems odd. if i get banned from Final Fantasy XIV i can't use their forums or anything
  1820. [2018-01-20 15:17:35] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> But you violated their TOS.
  1821. [2018-01-20 15:17:39] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> We have no TOS.
  1822. [2018-01-20 15:17:40] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The reason it's not instantly mirrored is for the locker example
  1823. [2018-01-20 15:17:42] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> which of course-- right
  1824. [2018-01-20 15:17:43] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> I mean we do
  1825. [2018-01-20 15:17:45] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> We have rules
  1826. [2018-01-20 15:17:47] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> We do?!
  1827. [2018-01-20 15:17:50] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> We use Ban Until Appeal a lot for quick things like
  1828. [2018-01-20 15:17:51] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> You agree to play by the rules or be banned
  1829. [2018-01-20 15:17:52] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> 😄
  1830. [2018-01-20 15:17:54] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> "Explain why you did xyz"
  1831. [2018-01-20 15:18:04] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And that doesn't neccessarily demand banning them from everything
  1832. [2018-01-20 15:18:04] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> I didn't get a DO YOU AGREE TO THESE TERMS box so it doesn't count kthx.
  1833. [2018-01-20 15:18:17] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> But no I feel all these things are v case-by-case.
  1834. [2018-01-20 15:18:20] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i know this is a really dumb question but i've never been forum banned: if you're forum banned you can still access the appeal subforum right?
  1835. [2018-01-20 15:18:20] <DiscordBridge> <Ace McLazer> 1
  1836. [2018-01-20 15:18:22] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> By playing on this server you agree to follow our rules blah blah blah
  1837. [2018-01-20 15:18:27] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> we should do a Europa like
  1838. [2018-01-20 15:18:28] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If you want to throw hypothetical situations at me for if you can ban in x situation
  1839. [2018-01-20 15:18:29] <DiscordBridge> <Cammy> Yes EC
  1840. [2018-01-20 15:18:29] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Go ahead
  1841. [2018-01-20 15:18:31] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> when you connect for the first time
  1842. [2018-01-20 15:18:32] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> the rules pop up
  1843. [2018-01-20 15:18:33] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ah ok
  1844. [2018-01-20 15:18:36] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> there's a 'do you agree'
  1845. [2018-01-20 15:18:41] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Do, throw any hypothetical
  1846. [2018-01-20 15:18:43] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> at the ver ybottom
  1847. [2018-01-20 15:18:47] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> so yeah, not seeing the downside. Jeff Spaceman gets on the forums, makes his appeal like he normally would, he's back in the game
  1848. [2018-01-20 15:18:57] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> also
  1849. [2018-01-20 15:18:59] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> even if all jeff did was log out in a closet
  1850. [2018-01-20 15:19:03] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> >F-Tang Steve - Today at 2:16 PM
  1851. [2018-01-20 15:19:03] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> Can I request a time until appeal for a ban until appeal thingy? Some kind of thing where if you don't appeal a ban for 3 months or whatever you get community banned or something so people aren't stirring up stuff when they're not planning on appealing.
  1852. [2018-01-20 15:19:05] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> i agree
  1853. [2018-01-20 15:19:09] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> we all know who this is about
  1854. [2018-01-20 15:19:10] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> but i agree
  1855. [2018-01-20 15:19:16] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> lol
  1856. [2018-01-20 15:19:19] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Maybe give it a week? If you don't appeal in a week or two you get banned until you get an approved appeal
  1857. [2018-01-20 15:19:26] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The biggest thing is that doing a proper system for mirroring requires
  1858. [2018-01-20 15:19:29] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Coding which
  1859. [2018-01-20 15:19:33] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> So, the current deal is:
  1860. [2018-01-20 15:19:35] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> I mean the problem with this idea is that, it's kinda what we seem to already do
  1861. [2018-01-20 15:19:40] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> To mirror on Xenoforo would require interacting with the API
  1862. [2018-01-20 15:19:42] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> We can do it just fine with some manual labor
  1863. [2018-01-20 15:19:45] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i don't think it makes sense for us to complain about people who don't play the game but toxify our channels, and yet allow for a subgroup of people who *can't* play the game but can toxify our channels
  1864. [2018-01-20 15:19:46] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> We are just making it a shorter fuze
  1865. [2018-01-20 15:19:46] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> But we're considering switching to Xenoforo 2.0
  1866. [2018-01-20 15:19:50] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Which means new API
  1867. [2018-01-20 15:20:10] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And mirroring instantly to discord and IRC no question asked means getting someone to code that
  1868. [2018-01-20 15:20:14] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Make a private staff channel and add applied bans with reasons there. Then manually pull a list and mirror it
  1869. [2018-01-20 15:20:14] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> man that'd be nice. our forum software is awful
  1870. [2018-01-20 15:20:25] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> spoiler:
  1871. [2018-01-20 15:20:28] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> XF2.0 is worse.
  1872. [2018-01-20 15:20:32] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If someone does release 50 slimes though
  1873. [2018-01-20 15:20:44] <DiscordBridge> <IDTia> Go back to Simple Machine Forums /s
  1874. [2018-01-20 15:20:46] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Nothing stops you from mirroring it automatically here if its a permaban/ban until appeal
  1875. [2018-01-20 15:21:02] <DiscordBridge> <Eckles_Fire> tfw not using PHPBB
  1876. [2018-01-20 15:21:09] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If they're a toxic idiot who won't appeal and keeps being toxic in the chat?
  1877. [2018-01-20 15:21:11] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> shit even vanilla forums are better
  1878. [2018-01-20 15:21:14] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> And they're permabanned?
  1879. [2018-01-20 15:21:21] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> They're able to be removed instantly.
  1880. [2018-01-20 15:21:25] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> Mirroring it here also does require manual work either way, ckeys don't exactly match up with discord nicks usually
  1881. [2018-01-20 15:21:33] <DiscordBridge> <Spooky> 👋
  1882. [2018-01-20 15:21:35] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Implimentation detail can be talked about on the forums I think
  1883. [2018-01-20 15:21:36] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> i still haven't gotten an answer as to why to keep them around
  1884. [2018-01-20 15:21:44] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I'm not saying we keep them?
  1885. [2018-01-20 15:21:45] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> the only real response was "if they're bad, ban them from there too"
  1886. [2018-01-20 15:21:48] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Whether it should or shouldn't is what's important
  1887. [2018-01-20 15:22:33] <DiscordBridge> <spooky> I've always wanted to do it properly and blanket ban both ways, but shrug.
  1888. [2018-01-20 15:22:40] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If they're permabanned they're on thin ice and you can mirror it immediately if you really want to, or ban them later if they keep being an idiot
  1889. [2018-01-20 15:22:46] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The reason for not defaulting to mirror is
  1890. [2018-01-20 15:22:58] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I personally feel it won't always demand a ban immediately
  1891. [2018-01-20 15:23:06] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> right... but why
  1892. [2018-01-20 15:23:12] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I've said that
  1893. [2018-01-20 15:23:14] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Already
  1894. [2018-01-20 15:23:41] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> you mentioned something about a forum appeal, but even if they're super duper banned they can still do that
  1895. [2018-01-20 15:23:44] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> If you do want to make all bans include having to hunt down someone's discord key, forum name, and IRC name as standard procedure for permabans then
  1896. [2018-01-20 15:23:50] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> What do you mean by forum appeal?
  1897. [2018-01-20 15:24:01] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> a... forum appeal? to be unbanned
  1898. [2018-01-20 15:24:04] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Yeah
  1899. [2018-01-20 15:24:07] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> (Btw I'm gonna stop the meeting at 3 hours so if we dont reach everything the other topics will be threads)
  1900. [2018-01-20 15:24:07] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> What about it?
  1901. [2018-01-20 15:24:20] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> ok i think we lost each other, re: forum appeals
  1902. [2018-01-20 15:24:33] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> the takeaway i'm getting is that because of our current setup, it's a bit of work to remove them from forums/discord
  1903. [2018-01-20 15:24:38] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> The only part I mentioned is if they get unbanned from the server then they also get unbanned from the community if it was a conditional thing
  1904. [2018-01-20 15:24:38] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> and that's a fair reason
  1905. [2018-01-20 15:24:49] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> That's the thing I've not been saying, yeah
  1906. [2018-01-20 15:24:53] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> This system kind of lets you go
  1907. [2018-01-20 15:25:00] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> "Well if they can behave on the Discord they can stick"
  1908. [2018-01-20 15:25:03] <DiscordBridge> <Earthcrusher> damn, you coulda said it and saved me the trouble of having to ask dumb questions
  1909. [2018-01-20 15:25:05] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> "But if they cause any problem they're gone"
  1910. [2018-01-20 15:25:06] * Connection closed for inactivity
  1911. [2018-01-20 15:25:06] * Socket closed
  1912.  
  1913. -- At this point, my client died and I have to supplement with Discord logs. --
  1914.  
  1915. [3:25 PM] Crushtoe: "But if they cause any problem they're gone"
  1916. [3:25 PM] Crushtoe: So you don't have to dedicate time to hunting them down
  1917. [3:25 PM] Earthcrusher: that makes sense then. though i'd hope that if we come up with an easy blanket ban solution, maybe it's used
  1918. [3:25 PM] Crushtoe: Any other comments on this?
  1919. [3:26 PM] ThatOneGuy: Nooopeee
  1920. [3:26 PM] Earthcrusher: i'm good!
  1921. [3:26 PM] Chronograph: What about on the reverse
  1922. [3:26 PM] Chronograph: Forum bans that lead to game bans
  1923. [3:26 PM] Chronograph: How do we handle that
  1924. [3:26 PM] Crushtoe: Forum bans can only really happen in two ways
  1925. [3:26 PM] Crushtoe: Community Senior applies one or automatically by strike
  1926. [3:26 PM] Crushtoe: That's a thing I wanted to put up a forum thread up about actually
  1927. [3:26 PM] spookatron: I feel like leaving it fluffy is going to potentially result in uneven applications of mirror bans, which I can see causing complaints ("why am I banned if X isn't"), but otherwise nop.
  1928. [3:26 PM] Crushtoe: Because there's some asymmetry with forum bans and discord bans
  1929. [3:26 PM] Crushtoe: And I wanted to address all that
  1930. [3:27 PM] Crushtoe: Right now, there's no plan to mirror in the reverse
  1931. [3:27 PM] spookatron: Although there should be 8)
  1932. [3:27 PM] Chronograph: That kinda defeats the purpose of the proposed centralized ban
  1933. [3:28 PM] Skip: Can we ban people in game for talking shit about their forum ban
  1934. [3:28 PM] Crushtoe: The reason the server to community works well is because
  1935. [3:28 PM] Crushtoe: All game staff are now community mods
  1936. [3:28 PM] Skip: It’s rare but happens
  1937. [3:28 PM] Crushtoe: So if you can ban on the game we don't need to do a special thing to get the person banned on the forum
  1938. [3:28 PM] Crushtoe: Or the discord
  1939. [3:28 PM] Crushtoe: Well technically forum yes but that's a forum thread to address
  1940. [3:29 PM] spookatron: Meh. "I need someone to ban X on Y for their Z ban" is easy enough, and shouldn't be much of an obstacle IMO.
  1941. [3:29 PM] Crushtoe: Test
  1942. [3:29 PM] Crushtoe: Discord doesn't want to work on my laptop apparently
  1943. [3:30 PM] Crushtoe: I'd tell them off and if they keep going ban them personally
  1944. [3:30 PM] Crushtoe: @Skip
  1945. [3:30 PM] Crushtoe: It doesn't belong on the game
  1946. [3:30 PM] Crushtoe: It's irrelevant and just useless
  1947. [3:30 PM] Crushtoe: If they don't stop, I'd ban
  1948. [3:30 PM] Crushtoe: We good with this topic?
  1949. [3:31 PM] ThatOneGuy: :thumbsup:
  1950. [3:32 PM] Crushtoe: .
  1951. [3:32 PM] Ace McLazer: Ah, I was writing somthing out but its not important lol
  1952. [3:32 PM] Crushtoe: Then next topic
  1953. [3:32 PM] Crushtoe: There'll be a forum thread too
  1954. [3:32 PM] Chronograph: My concerns are not really addressed, but for the sake of the meeting i'll just talk about it in staffroom
  1955. [3:32 PM] Skip: Telling them off first is a given but yea works for me
  1956. [3:32 PM] Crushtoe: If you can wait until I throw up a thread? @Chronograph
  1957. [3:32 PM] Crushtoe: I'll do it after the meeting
  1958. [3:32 PM] F-Tang Steve: What's next?
  1959. [3:32 PM] Chronograph: That's fine too
  1960. [3:32 PM] Crushtoe: :heart:
  1961. [3:33 PM] ThatOneGuy: Next up
  1962. [3:33 PM] ThatOneGuy: STAte of the Wiki
  1963. [3:33 PM] spookatron: I AFK, it 21:30 and I want to cook food before people start going to sleep.
  1964. [3:33 PM] Earthcrusher: Thots
  1965. [3:33 PM] Earthcrusher: er
  1966. [3:33 PM] F-Tang Steve: Ok This is my topic
  1967. [3:33 PM] Earthcrusher: that, right
  1968. [3:33 PM] F-Tang Steve: Give me a moment
  1969. [3:33 PM] ThatOneGuy: Thots yes
  1970. [3:33 PM] Ace McLazer: Begone
  1971. [3:34 PM] ParadoxSpace: remove medical
  1972. [3:35 PM] F-Tang Steve: So: the wiki no longer has someone maintaining it at all. We have a few bits and pieces but need a dedicated person for it. We need either:
  1973. 1) an existing staff position whose job it becomes to maintain the wiki or
  1974. 2) a new staff position to be lord of the wiki
  1975.  
  1976. This needs to include things like making sure that it's up to date, handling spammers, and marking or removing pages that don't fit our content guidelines.
  1977.  
  1978. Is anyone currently willing to take on that full responsibility or should we look for a community member willing to do so?
  1979. [3:36 PM] Chronograph: I'd say it's a job I've been interested in. But I have no experience.
  1980. [3:36 PM] Crushtoe: I'd personally try to court skeeve back
  1981. [3:36 PM] Earthcrusher: i mean no offense whatsoever but maintaining a wiki is gonna be something you want experience with
  1982. [3:36 PM] Crushtoe: It's unlikely he would but
  1983. [3:36 PM] ThatOneGuy: TBH I dont want skeeve coming back
  1984. [3:37 PM] Crushtoe: Still
  1985. [3:37 PM] ThatOneGuy: he's more trouble than he's worth
  1986. [3:37 PM] F-Tang Steve: Skeeve was not at all respected in it and wouldn't come back.
  1987. [3:37 PM] Chronograph: Yeah, as I said, it's just an interest.
  1988. [3:38 PM] Crushtoe: We'll have to probably find a community member
  1989. [3:38 PM] Crushtoe: And maybe not treat them like trash
  1990. [3:38 PM] ThatOneGuy: TBH I'm fine with looking at Chrono or someone else in the community (maybe opening up a "hey were looking for someone") to fine somone
  1991. [3:38 PM] ThatOneGuy: I'd expect them to not treat others like trash too then
  1992. [3:38 PM] F-Tang Steve: So I feel it should be an official staff position under lore manager. Put them in #lore-maintainers and have them be involved in some dev stuff too.
  1993. [3:39 PM] 🔩 Real Boy 🔩: I would do some work on wiki topics I'm interested in but I'd need wiki training
  1994. [3:39 PM] ThatOneGuy: Wiki Main means previous wiki training tbh
  1995. [3:39 PM] Crushtoe: ^
  1996. [3:39 PM] F-Tang Steve: IT needs to be a staff role so they are seen as an equal by the entire staff team.
  1997.  
  1998. -- And this is where I noticed my IRC client logging the chat was dead and I kicked it back to life. --
  1999.  
  2000. [2018-01-20 15:39:16] → Joined channel #bs12meeting
  2001. [2018-01-20 15:39:16] * Channel mode is +Jnrt 5
  2002. [2018-01-20 15:39:16] * Channel timestamp is 1452278484
  2003. [2018-01-20 15:39:16] * ChanServ set +o ItsMeTheHolder
  2004. [2018-01-20 15:39:47] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> ^
  2005. [2018-01-20 15:39:52] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> IT needs to be a staff role so they are seen as an equal by the entire staff team.
  2006. [2018-01-20 15:40:14] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> But remember tho
  2007. [2018-01-20 15:40:19] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> I think the mood is find a community member
  2008. [2018-01-20 15:40:22] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> That doesn't mean they do anything else
  2009. [2018-01-20 15:40:25] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> No one's volunteering here with experience
  2010. [2018-01-20 15:40:27] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Yes ToG
  2011. [2018-01-20 15:40:28] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> They are *just* in charge of the wiki
  2012. [2018-01-20 15:40:38] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> They'd be like the species maintainer role
  2013. [2018-01-20 15:40:44] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> that doesn't always come across when a new staff role is made as "equal to the entire staff team"
  2014. [2018-01-20 15:40:59] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> They're staff so they're accountable and they have access to the staff stuff
  2015. [2018-01-20 15:41:27] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> anyways
  2016. [2018-01-20 15:41:39] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> Either I or @Noble Caos can start a thread looking for someone
  2017. [2018-01-20 15:41:49] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> What's next?
  2018. [2018-01-20 15:42:11] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ***Responses to Disliked Decisions***
  2019. [2018-01-20 15:42:19] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Ok so this one is also mine.
  2020. [2018-01-20 15:43:33] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> So a few times there have been decisions made on the dev side of things that, if staff don't like, they start a fuss about. I'd like to remind people that there is a procedure with controversial dev stuff and, if that process is followed, please don't give the devs greif over the final decision as
  2021. [2018-01-20 15:43:33] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> that is a part of their job.
  2022. [2018-01-20 15:43:34] <DiscordBridge> <[SYSTEM]> full message from F-Tang Steve: https://ptpb.pw/AMCtuJdLJhn6MeYAdHIRqoqZPArk
  2023. [2018-01-20 15:43:56] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Can I still moan in general?
  2024. [2018-01-20 15:43:58] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> YEs
  2025. [2018-01-20 15:44:01] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Just not at devs for being devs?
  2026. [2018-01-20 15:44:11] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> I dont see an issue here
  2027. [2018-01-20 15:44:21] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Don't blame them for doing their job. If you have something that you want taken into account, say it in the threads as a part of the process.
  2028. [2018-01-20 15:44:24] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> 👍
  2029. [2018-01-20 15:44:25] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Right
  2030. [2018-01-20 15:44:32] <DiscordBridge> <Crushtoe> Don't shoot the messenger
  2031. [2018-01-20 15:44:34] <DiscordBridge> <Chronograph> Understood
  2032. [2018-01-20 15:44:37] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Thank you
  2033. [2018-01-20 15:44:45] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> Cool, what's next?
  2034. [2018-01-20 15:45:44] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> ***Amphibibros***
  2035. [2018-01-20 15:45:46] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> you mean we didn't spend an hour on that?
  2036. [2018-01-20 15:45:49] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> wait wait go back
  2037. [2018-01-20 15:45:52] <DiscordBridge> <ParadoxSpace> i don't think we're done
  2038. [2018-01-20 15:45:52] <DiscordBridge> <ThatOneGuy> NO
  2039. [2018-01-20 15:46:03] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> These are my topics so I'm happy to be succinct
  2040. [2018-01-20 15:46:12] <DiscordBridge> <F-Tang Steve> This one is also mine, let me type something up
  2041.  
  2042. -- At this point, my client died again and the meeting broke up into nonsense. This was the final topic. --
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