First of all, the studies I posted are applicable to both abusers and/or regular users of Steroids. Second of all, your statement about producing 'Androgen' hormones is completely contradictory to the actual meaning of the word, do you actually understand what an Androgen is and the part it plays in your body? Your body doesn't START compensating for the lack of natural testosterone production by ramping up your Estrogen (And thus having it bind to receptors), the low natural testosterone production is a consequence of the use of prolonged Anabolic Steroid usage. Also, about 'Post-Cycle-Therapy', the process only has ANY value because of the synthetic nature of Testosterone and the fact that it diminishes your NATURAL production of Testosterone. For one, Estrogen IS the female hormone, that's why you get bitch tits, just like DHT (The more potent form of Test) Which carries the hallmarks of peak male sexual development, and a consequence of increased test -> DHT conversion via the 5α-reductase enzyme is why you LOSE your hair in the first place. 2nd of all, Estrogen is a carcinogenic, the research points to Estrogen metabolism being the precursor to Estrogen related Cancers (Which DOESN'T make Estrogen a BAD hormone, nor does it merrit blocking it's production at all, Estrogen is important for MEN just as it's important for women, just like using Medication like Finasteride that blocks the Alpha5 enzyme from converting testosterone into dihydrotestosterone - usually causes more harm than good.Dihydrotestosterone About 'Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) - The drug actually works by binding to Estrogen receptors, rather than actually decreasing Estrogen (This is a huge difference.), this as a by-product limits Estrogen reactive gene expression. It does not raise Testosterone levels at all, "he Tamoxifen did not produce any significant change in the metabolic clearance rate, the plasma concentration or the calculated blood production rate of testosterone. The only significant alteration in the conversion ratio of testosterone to metabolites was the reduction (p less than 0.02) in conversion to 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone. A significant reduction in the plasma concentrations (p less than 0.05) of dehydroepiandrosterone and of luteinizing hormone (p less than 0.02) was found. " About 'Clomid' (Clomiphene Citrate) - It's not 'Anti-Estrogen', it like Tamoxifen binds to Estrogen receptors, it doesn't influence the amount of Estrogen your body produces. A byproduct of Clomid is that it promotes protein-based hormones that are derivatives of your Pituitary gland (What you should know as the driving force behind HGH.), this CAN and does promote natural Testosterone production. Also quick note, it's effective for the amount of time you continue to take it, once you CEASE medication your Estrogen will be free again to bind to the Estrogen receptors like the ones found in your breast tissue, thus not solving the problem. To completely eradicate the issue you would need to take an aromatase inhibitor. This goes to show how little you actually understand about hormonal profiles and the Endocrine system in general. HGH injections are SYNTHETIC, you're not being injected with actual growth hormone you're being injected to precursors that encourage and facilitate/stimulate your Pituitary gland to release HGH in to your blood stream, where it then filters into your Liver and is metabolised into IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor.) - Which actually mostly happens when you're asleep in pulses, assuming a standard Circadian Rhythm. Secretion of Insulin hinders HGH due to them both being similar structurally and both binding to the same receptors (Not dissimilar to how Testosterone/DHT vs. Estrogen minus their structural differences.) It is impractical to supplement both, and actually completely unnecessary (Unless you have a diagnosed Medical condition such as Diabities) if you have a basic understanding of the role both hormones play. Do you actually understand WHY Insulin can be dangerous in the first place? For ex: Hypoglycemia (Something you will of heard of.) - A result of low levels of Glucose within your blood, which by the way is a potential risk when injecting Insulin (Causing symptoms akin to Insulin overdose when cells within your body absorb too much glucose within a relatively short time period.) If your Insulin is high, secretion of HGH is lower and vice-versa, which is why you shouldn't eat before bed, the amount of Insulin released in accordance to the Carbohydrate/Sugar profile of what you ate warrants a certain amount of Insulin release to break down Carbs to convert in to Glucose; which in turn inhibits normal HGH pulsative patterns whilst sleeping (And the same is true for during your waking hours) Which is why schedules like Intermittent Fasting naturally increase basal HGH levels by proxy. Also it should be obvious to even somebody without an interest in Chemistry or Biology that the promotion of HGH is VASTLY more important than stimulating/increasing base testosterone or dihydrotestosterone - not only for general health but for making significant muscle mass gains. Which is why Carb loading is both GOOD and BAD for that purpose. Do you understand the role of testosterone/dihydrotestosterone OR HGH secretion on your cardiovascular health or do you want me to explain it to you? It's actually very simple. Also, if you're so confident, let's get some blood work done for basic bio-markers? I'll put money on mine showing better overall health. ----------------------------------------------- Minradk - Today at 13:03 Just shut up will you, there is a difference between personal experience and reading something in a book. Secrezy - Today at 13:04 The fuck is going on here + London - Today at 13:04 :THINKING: I'm pretty sure you've done a bit of reading on the subject, difference is you completely didn't understand the terminology or the processes behind it. In my explanation above I actually simplified it but if you'd like we can go in to detail.Oh you mean there is a huge difference between what you personally believe vs. actually understanding the Scientific principles behind it Don't contradict yourself Minradk - Today at 13:05 Believe? I've been using steroids long enough to know what it does to your body, something clearly you havent :smile: + London - Today at 13:07 Do you understand how dumb that sounds? Are you saying you know more about Steroids than actual scientists? Minradk - Today at 13:08 I'm saying I have alot more experience than YOU regarding steroid usage big difference :smiley: You have read something in a book, I've been injecting this shit into my body Who got the most experience do you think ? Dont embarass yourself :smile: Secrezy - Today at 13:09 Here's a picture of a dog https://i.redd.it/e9y8kc0emt811.jpg 😛1 Vinckier - Today at 13:10 Did you ever experience any rashes minra? A friend of mine used to take some kind of steroids from when he was ~14 years old and he had a lot of rash issues on his back, he also couldn't get his dick hard anymore xd Minradk - Today at 13:10 Yea Vinckier, ofcourse :smile: Alot on my back + London - Today at 13:11 You do understand how studies are formulated right? You do understand HOW scienists deviate the information and conclusions they do right? It's called experimentation, control groups vs placebo - and working upon research concluded previously - I'm pretty sure they know FAR more about Steroids than you ever will and they haven't injected themselves with it. You're embarassing yourself; guess this just shows how dumb you really are Feel free to continue the discussion though I'd love to hear how educated you are on cardiovascular health