What worries me is that Donald is a nihilist My grandfather actually believed in legacy He wanted Donald to preserve his legacy Donald doesn't believe in that He does not believe that anything, --- whether he thinks he is going to be going down --- because of the Epstein issue or because if he starts to think that his --- health is failing, he will not go alone He will take as many people down with him I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast you wrote, and we listened And we have another person --- that you have been clamoring to hear from Mary Trump --- and how she describes her life as a member of the Trump --- family is is really quite extraordinary And how she talks about her grandfather and noticing his symptoms of Alzheimer's --- and then recognizing those very same symptoms in our president --- is really quite chilling She now has her own media company, Mary Trump Media, where she has a podcast --- like we do on YouTube But I found her an absolutely fascinating --- and very thoughtful interviewee as she is able to analyze through her own --- training as a clinical psychologist, the dynamics of the family --- and what it's like growing up Trump So let's get into it Mary Trump is in the House Mary Trump it's been a very long week Well, it seems that they all are now What is it like to wake up in the morning and just see your uncle Everywhere Everywhere A man that you've been in and out of --- endless lawsuits, as is the Trump way Apparently, yes But how how do you Well, you've set up --- your own media business to deal with it But but what's it like inside your head It's actually something --- I've gotten used to Don't get me wrong There's there's a a level at which --- I still take it very personally I know I should probably let that go, but it's hard --- because he is my uncle after all And I feel like my not --- I feel like my family is doing untold damage to my country --- and the planet, so that is hard to take But it doesn't, have its teeth in me --- the way it used to After the 2016 election, every time I heard his name --- and I can distinguish, I could tell when he was being referred --- to, obviously, at least twice a day, --- I would have this feeling of horror wash over me --- that this horrible thing had happened I don't get that anymore I'm Because this is this is our reality And it has been for over a decade now It is more a shift in focus for --- me to the people who keep enabling him Those are the people we need --- to figure out and start dealing with So in your book, --- who could ever love you a Family Memoir, you talk about your 16th birthday, and you --- have it at a ballroom at a Hyatt hotel, and your father has written a check out --- to Donald Trump because it's his hotel And he turns up at the party --- and is parading around the party as if it's his party And I wanted to know, from your vantage --- point as a teenager, what he was like as a man to be around and what you observed of him --- when he was with women Because you get used to people --- you grow up with Right It's not as if I ever thought --- there was something weird about him People have asked me, oh, wow, what was it --- like growing up in this family It's like it was normal It was my It was my normal There was no other frame of reference So I believed the myth that my grandfather started, --- that Donald was successful But I never bought into the idea --- that he was smart because he was so demonstrably not And that not not that I experienced it --- this way that night, but certainly later, and certainly --- in the context of the last ten years and the way his base treats him --- and how thirsty is about attention That was the first inkling --- that as long as Donald has an audience that's giving him attention, --- he doesn't really care about who is in the audience --- because what he was doing was trying Like going out of his way --- to impress a bunch of teenagers who couldn't have cared --- less about the fact that he was there This has been the week --- of the release of the Epstein emails And, you know, the endless, endless demand --- for the release of the Epstein files Did you ever meet Jeffrey Epstein I never met him, thankfully, but --- I found out recently that he was at Donald second wedding, his wedding to Marla --- maples, and I was there too So I have had the great misfortune --- of being in the same room with Jeffrey Epstein, --- which is alarming enough, but thankfully, no, I never I never met him I wouldn't have been considered --- worthy of meeting him Meaning what weird way of putting it I mean, you are too old Oh, she's now, --- Although that's a horrifying thought I probably would have been at that point No, that, I wasn't somebody that Donald --- never would have gone out of his way to introduce to his close --- friends and inner circle Okay, so what was your impression of I mean, was he attractive to women Did women cleave to him Did he, did he behave in appropriately at all --- with women Donald Yeah I never saw anything inappropriate He was sexist, for sure Or like, everybody in my family, including --- the women, were were misogynists He and my Uncle Robert --- treated my grandmother, but in a very infantilizing, --- disrespectful way And it was very obvious, --- that they didn't respect women and didn't --- think women should have any power And, a common dinner --- table conversation would be talking about all of the ugly fat women --- or talking about the beautiful women and how, they were classed by --- by the men in my family My dad wasn't like that at all But also, he wasn't really included --- in a lot of the conversations And just to remind people, --- your father was Donald Trump's older brother and he died when he was 42, --- of course, is related to alcoholism And you were 16 Yes And I mean, --- that was a very big complicating factor, I certainly in my dad's life, --- but it might as well He was the oldest son in the Trump family He was the namesake He was Fred Jr He was supposed to take over the Empire --- from my grandfather And obviously that didn't work out So that set my dad's life --- on a pretty awful trajectory, especially after he started drinking --- and was never able to rehabilitate himself --- in his father's mind And then, simply by virtue of the fact --- that I was Freddie's daughter and and a girl, nobody in the family had any interest, in me --- or anything I wanted to do or had to say But you've now turned it into a career The irony Yeah That that is a sort of sobering way --- to look at it, but it also happens to be true What is unfortunate, though, is that Donald Trump is the most or arguably --- the most powerful person on the planet and has shown himself to be willing to be destructive and cruel as possible --- to get power and wealth for himself So it would feel utterly irresponsible for me to step aside and say nothing Watching all of this unfold --- and trying to play some small role has felt, felt like a way --- to stay grounded in a fight that's much bigger than he is Stepping away and washing my hands of it --- would And for me, --- I wouldn't be able to live with myself In your first book that came out in 2020, --- you called him the most dangerous man in the world It's very clear --- that people are scared of him Do you --- recognize why people are scared of him Were you scared of him --- when you were growing up Were people around him in the family --- scared of him I honestly find it unfathomable that anybody would ever be scared of --- Donald He's the weakest, --- most pathetic person I've ever known And, there is nothing about him --- that's threatening So I think it's important to step back --- and and put that, designation in context He was and remains --- the world's most dangerous man because of power that was given to him by other people So Donald is the result of a myth --- my grandfather started a long time ago My my dad was not going to cut it --- as my grandfather's heir, so he turned to Donald --- and made use of him When did Donald become --- your grandfather's favorite son and talk to us --- about how he sort of molded Donald, or how the intensity of their relationship --- grew Yeah, --- I think it's it's more accurate to to say he became useful And it happened probably simultaneously to his discovering --- that my father was not the right person, my father, my grandfather wanted a killer --- to be the one to take over And my dad was despite being very smart, --- you cannot be a stupid person And put yourself through flight school --- and start flying. 707 at the age of 25 He was sensitive, though He was kind He was generous These are not qualities --- valued by the Trump family at all At the same time as, Donald as a teenager, my grandfather is saying he's belligerent, he's disrespectful, he's never wrong He's the best He's this, the that And that resonated with my grandfather And then from there, --- he realized that Donald had something my grandfather did not have in the way --- he needed to He had media savvy He had an ability to self-promote --- that far exceeded my grandfather's So that became very valuable --- because my grandfather, as successful as he was in Queens in Brooklyn, never --- was able to make the move into Manhattan He needed somebody with Donald's --- personality and essentially lack of self-awareness --- and willing to t