dragonkid11 27/09/2016 #moderation

[16:08]	Mishie	did things get resolved with DK?
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[18:09]	Wildbow	No
[18:42]	Mishie	Well he's back now
[18:53]	Mishie	Sorry for the mass pings, but should we talk to him here or something, also, not too sure who is here and what their opinions are on this, and I'm thinking that it would be for the best to talk to him now instead of waiting any further.  Gundor, Wildbow, Elara, Antioch, ColdGold.
[18:54]	Elara	I am present and not sure what to do with/about dk
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[22:15]	Mishie	Just going to assume that's a no
[01:09]	Gundor	hm
[01:09]	Gundor	it's probably better to do the conversation when he's in his usual mode rather than the problem mode
[01:09]	Gundor	so I am in favor of any mod who sees him active having a chat with him along the lines we've discussed
[01:10]	Mishie	well he's active literally right now
[01:11]	Mishie	if you're happy to do it now as well Gundor, I'm happy to bring him in
[01:11]	Mishie	still around Elara or ColdGold?
[01:13]	Elara	I'm finishing up at work, so can't take lead but can be generally involved
[01:13]	Mishie	mm
[01:15]	Mishie	and Antioch is apparently ilive
[01:15]	Mishie	alive*
[01:15]	Antioch	Yo, what's up?
[01:15]	Antioch	Got a lab meeting in a quarter hour, but am indeed alive
[01:15]	Mishie	DK is awake and around
[01:15]	Gundor	I can't lead either as I'm hungry
[01:15]	Gundor	but I can help a bit if we do it now
[01:15]	Mishie	wanting to talk to him before it gets too late
[01:16]	Gundor	(hungry => tetchy)
[01:16]	Mishie	Since I'm the only one free, I'll take lead from the looks of things
[01:16]	Mishie	main points that I'll hit
[01:16]	Mishie	1) Not blowing up in chat about things that he dislikes
[01:16]	Mishie	2) If he has a problem with something that people are discussing/linking/whatever, either talk to ops if it's against the rules, or take a breather away from IRC.
[01:17]	Mishie	not sure about 3) Trying to minimize drama in chat
[01:17]	Antioch	I think that's a valid point to raise.
[01:17]	Mishie	anything else?
[01:17]	Gundor	you could go into 3
[01:17]	Antioch	His coping mechanisms seem to heavily involve broadcasting negativity throughout the chat
[01:17]	Gundor	and note that people here tend *not* to be professionals at mental health
[01:17]	Mishie	yeah
[01:18]	Gundor	so that sort of stuff here doesnt' help him or them
[01:18]	Mishie	Really tempted to link him what Gundor linked last time.
[01:18]	Mishie	Because it really is appropriate
[01:18]	Gundor	proobably not the most tactful approach
[01:18]	Mishie	yeah
[01:18]	Mishie	But basically
[01:18]	Gundor	that's a good thing to link to folks on the other end of the dynamic
[01:18]	Elara	all sounds valid to me
[01:18]	Mishie	hoping to explain to him that the way he's behaving isn't appropriate
[01:18]	Gundor	not decided on whether it's good to link to folks in dk's role
[01:19]	Gundor	mh
[01:19]	Mishie	And it's the internet equivalent of well, hearing some people having a conversation and because of something that they say, rushing over and ranting about how terrible it is and how it makes you feel.
[01:20]	ColdGold	About to head to work
[01:20]	Mishie	np CG
[01:22]	Mishie	That make sense to you guys?
[01:22]	Mishie	Or have any rephrasings
[01:22]	Antioch	Makes sense to me.
[01:23]	Mishie	Going to send him a PM then
[01:23]	Gundor	looks good to me
[01:23]	Mishie	"Hey dragonkid11, if you're free right now could you pop into #moderation so we can discuss what happened last night?"
[01:26]	-->|	dragonkid11 (uid125228@brockwell.irccloud.com) has joined #moderation
[01:26]	dragonkid11	okay
[01:26]	Mishie	So
[01:26]	dragonkid11	was I...out of the line last night?
[01:27]	Mishie	I'm not sure if you remember this, but this isn't the first time something like this has happened.
[01:27]	Mishie	Where conversation has gone to topics that you're not very fond of, and well, you haven't reacted very well to them.
[01:27]	dragonkid11	I remember it quite well... :c
[01:27]	Mishie	Do you remember people talking to you about how you reacted in those previous situations?
[01:28]	dragonkid11	yes
[01:29]	Mishie	And do you remember what was suggested that you do instead?
[01:29]	dragonkid11	quit the chat and stay calm
[01:30]	dragonkid11	sighs
[01:30]	Mishie	Here's the thing, we understand why you reacted that way.
[01:30]	Mishie	We understand that it's a touchy subject for you.
[01:31]	Mishie	And if at any moment we think that people are trying to use it to fuck with you, it will not end well for that person.
[01:31]	Gundor	nods
[01:32]	Mishie	But at the same time, we can't condone the way in which you reacted, especially since we've had similar situations in the past and have talked to you about better and healthier responses.
[01:33]	dragonkid11	I apologized, didn't I?
[01:33]	Gundor	That's good, but we also want you to not do it again.
[01:33]	Mishie	We've said that instead of reacting in chat in the manner that you do, it would be better if you instead either contacted a mod to discuss what had happened, or instead just took a moment to have a breather and calm down.
[01:34]	dragonkid11	I didn't actually expect that someone would be /sick enough/ to actually fucking draw that
[01:34]	Mishie	Think about it this way, if you were walking past some people that you knew, and they were discussing that topic in detail.  How would you react?
[01:34]	dragonkid11	detail is fine
[01:34]	Mishie	Would you go up to them and say the things that you said in chat?
[01:34]	dragonkid11	word is fine, I deal with worse
[01:35]	Mishie	Well
[01:35]	dragonkid11	But that link was a banana peel and I slip on it
[01:35]	Mishie	You kind of have a history of not dealing so well with words.
[01:35]	Mishie	And I understand that a picture is much worse.
[01:35]	dragonkid11	those histories are months ago
[01:35]	dragonkid11	The last time I broke is..when. 3 months?
[01:36]	Mishie	But you have to agree that the way in which you reacted wasn't appropriate.
[01:36]	dragonkid11	yeah...
[01:36]	Elara	3 months is a fairly short time, as these things go. with the number of people on this server, if everyone broke once every 3 months we'd be having someone breaking almost every day
[01:36]	dragonkid11	Now that I lowered my expectation yet again
[01:37]	Mishie	If you had said something like "Hey, can you not link something like that again, or maybe warn people about it?"
[01:37]	dragonkid11	Hopefully now I won't be affected by those kind of 'sick' art again
[01:37]	Mishie	Or even just not said anything
[01:37]	dragonkid11	And that people don't somehow make /worse/ thing than that
[01:37]	Mishie	It's just that #parahumans isn't the place for you to vent.
[01:37]	dragonkid11	yeah...
[01:37]	Mishie	It isn't healthy for the community for you to lash out like that
[01:39]	dragonkid11	I literally had panic attack from it, but that's just excuse
[01:39]	Mishie	And I know that you have been directed to other, healthier methods of coping.
[01:39]	dragonkid11	yeah
[01:39]	Mishie	Have you followed up on any of them?
[01:39]	Mishie	Because to be perfectly honest, the people in #parahumans, hell, the people in #moderation aren't trained professionals.
[01:40]	dragonkid11	Multiple times
[01:41]	Mishie	I don't want to give you any specific advice since I'm not an expert on this.  But at the same time, I just want to ensure that you understand that the way that you're acting isn't appropriate, and if anything can be harmful to the other members of the chat.
[01:41]	dragonkid11	noids
[01:41]	dragonkid11	*nods
[01:44]	Mishie	So basically just to sum things up.  I just want you to remember a few simple things.
[01:45]	Mishie	1)  Try not to blow up in chat and go on a rant about something.  If you want to discus something be civil and reasonable about it.  If you don't feel that you can do so, maybe it isn't the best idea to talk about it here.
[01:46]	Mishie	2)  If something pops up in chat again that you have a problem with, or if somebody is trying to use it to mess with you, you can alert a mod.
[01:48]	dragonkid11	okay
[01:48]	Mishie	3)  Keep in mind that people are generally here to relax and enjoy themselves by talking to friends.  I know that it can be tempting to use some of the people here to vent with, but they're not going to be a trained professional to help you deal with your problems, and all you're doing is creating more stress since most of the people here are the kinds of people that will want to help, and...
[01:48]	Mishie	...will feel terrible about not being able to do so.
[01:50]	Mishie	You yourself have mentioned that you've felt stressed out because of something that's happened to a friend of yours.  You using #parahumans to vent makes people feel the same way.  #parahumans is not the right place for you to go when you're having these problems.
[01:50]	dragonkid11	I have been to #relationship to get some help
[01:50]	Mishie	Mhm
[01:50]	dragonkid11	it well, kinda works
[01:53]	Gundor	I don't want to speak for Antioch but I'm concerned that that channel may not be for this purpose either.
[01:54]	Gundor	I mean, not for repeated venting
[01:54]	Gundor	not not for talking about your personal life, that is in fact one of its core purposes
[01:54]	Gundor	hopes that was comprehensible
[01:55]	dragonkid11	nods
[01:56]	Mishie	And well, speaking of #relationships
[01:56]	Mishie	You mentioned that you have used it in the past for help
[01:56]	Mishie	And you even briefly went into it last night to vent.
[01:56]	Mishie	Is there any reason why you went back into #parahumans after that dragonkid11 to continue?
[01:57]	Mishie	Because from what I saw, chrono was trying to talk to you and help there.
[01:57]	dragonkid11	I calmed down enough to make sense again
[01:58]	Gundor	I think that from the perspective of #parahumans coherent rage isn't that much better than incoherent rage <.<
[01:58]	Mishie	You weren't particularly calm from what I saw.
[01:59]	dragonkid11	I was absolutely furious that's for sure.
[02:00]	dragonkid11	But at that point, I made my point clear.
[02:00]	dragonkid11	'why didn't you give warning with that link?'
[02:01]	Mishie	Yes you made your point clear, but do you feel that you made it in an appropriate way?
[02:01]	dragonkid11	I made my point /really/ clear after nearly having a heart attack and puking my dinner.
[02:01]	dragonkid11	Honestly, no
[02:02]	Elara	that's...pretty worrying
[02:02]	Elara	that you would react to a cartoon picture of something with a near heart attack and vomiting
[02:03]	dragonkid11	Let's just say I do not like that part very much
[02:03]	dragonkid11	But that's not the point
[02:03]	Mishie	Well, how do you think you made TheJ feel with what you said?
[02:04]	Mishie	I can understand if you had popped back in and just explained yourself
[02:04]	dragonkid11	He said sorry, that's all I cared. And I forgave him.
[02:04]	Mishie	But you then continued on for a while.
[02:05]	dragonkid11	Yeah...
[02:09]	Mishie	I'm just personally not a very big fan of the fact that well, after you had apparently had had time to calm down and vent in #relationships, you went back to #parahumans to continue and escalate things.
[02:10]	Mishie	Especially since as you said, you knew that we had talked about this and that we had talked about other options.
[02:10]	Mishie	Does that makes sense dragonkid11?
[02:11]	Mishie	You chose to follow our advice about leaving the channel, albeit after having a small vent, and then deliberately chose to return.
[02:14]	Mishie	Still there dragonkid11?
[02:14]	dragonkid11	Yes
[02:14]	dragonkid11	Was away for a moment
[02:15]	Mishie	Any comments?
[02:16]	dragonkid11	I left the channel, calmed down a bit.
[02:16]	dragonkid11	Came back
[02:16]	dragonkid11	Make my point clear
[02:16]	dragonkid11	And actually tried to deescalate by changing the topic.
[02:17]	Antioch	can acquire the necessary logs.
[02:17]	Antioch	(If needed.)
[02:17]	Mishie	It's just that you didn't make your point clear in a very appropriate way
[02:17]	dragonkid11	I came right back, and the first thing I get is called promagerate boy
[02:17]	Mishie	and I have a pastebin open
[02:17]	Mishie	http://pastebin.com/nfzCHmXB
[02:19]	Mishie	And you didn't really change the topic.
[02:19]	dragonkid11	So yeah, I was calmed down, and I get pissed right back up by Zeikos
[02:19]	Mishie	In fact you went on to talk for the next 10-15 minutes about how sick you felt.
[02:20]	Mishie	and the same topic
[02:20]	dragonkid11	[02:13] dragonkid11 Thank you, now I will put that website on my shortlist forever until I have accrued vote fetish somehow.
[02:20]	dragonkid11	Worst possible change of topic, but still is
[02:21]	dragonkid11	Look, I know I'm damn well not the right one here.
[02:22]	dragonkid11	But I'm not the only one at fault here.
[02:24]	Mishie	And who do you feel is at fault then?
[02:26]	dragonkid11	sighs
[02:26]	dragonkid11	Give me a moment to calm down
[02:26]	dragonkid11	I'm just wondering why you decided to talk this now instead of hours ago because it's midnight here.
[02:28]	Mishie	A variety of reason, but more importantly, who do you think was also at fault for the way in which you acted?
[02:30]	dragonkid11	The_J, obviously, but I forgive them since they clearly had didn't know about my button.
[02:30]	dragonkid11	Zeikos...slightly at fault but not really.
[02:30]	dragonkid11	And honestly, it's mostly myself
[02:32]	Mishie	Yes
[02:33]	Mishie	But what I'm trying to get at is the fact that although you felt that you had calmed down
[02:33]	Mishie	Your actions didn't really reflect that.
[02:34]	Mishie	And we've been in this exact same position before.
[02:34]	Mishie	Since you've mentioned it being late for you, I'm happy to wrap things up quickly.
[02:35]	dragonkid11	K
[02:36]	Mishie	Based on your behavior last night dragonkid11, and your history of similar outbursts.  We feel that it would be for the best if you had a 1 day tempban.  Hopefully that should be enough time for you to reflect on what was brought up tonight.
[02:36]	Mishie	And also to maybe consider how you could behave if something similar were to happen in the future.
[02:36]	Mishie	Do you understand?
[02:38]	Mishie	dragonkid11?
[02:40]	dragonkid11	...Did The_J get one day temp ban too
[02:41]	Mishie	I gave TheJ a warning about making sure to not link NSFW pictures in the future, and to think about how people might react.
[02:42]	dragonkid11	You gave the perpetrator a slap on their wrist?
[02:42]	Gundor	dragonkid11, your reaction is not their fault
[02:42]	dragonkid11	sighs
[02:43]	Gundor	They are responsible for their misstep, but not for consequences they couldn't have expected
[02:43]	Gundor	Further, their record is... pretty short
[02:43]	dragonkid11	Fine yeah whatever.
[02:43]	dragonkid11	I just want to sleep
[02:44]	Gundor	good night
[02:44]	dragonkid11	It 1 AM
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