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  1. [17:56:27] <JohnGuru> <Ragtime^> Thanks to Donald Trump, people are saying Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays.
  2. [17:57:06] <Ragtime^> well, it was germaine to Christmas
  3. [17:57:23] <Malkovich> haha
  4. [17:57:24] <Cyberclaus> germaine jackson!
  5. [17:57:26] <Cyberclaus> ahem
  6. [17:57:26] <Malkovich> That's a fucking lie.
  7. [17:57:48] <Ragtime^> what kind of language is that for Christmas?
  8. [17:58:02] <Malkovich> Real talk (tm)
  9. [17:58:08] <Cyberclaus> Merry Christmas ya scurvy bastids!!!
  10. [17:58:10] <JohnGuru> what's the sense in stealing $1.5 Trillion from the people for christmas?
  11. [17:58:27] <JohnGuru> that was his goal, right? Get it passed by christmas?
  12. [17:58:30] <Ragtime^> Perhaps it was what the people wanted.
  13. [17:58:34] <JohnGuru> he even said so
  14. [17:58:52] <JohnGuru> 77% of the public hate the tax bill, and why shouldn't they?
  15. [17:59:09] <Malkovich> He signed it before the new year, too, so the PayGo rules applies and cuts to Medicare are coming.
  16. [17:59:10] <JohnGuru> we do still take polls, Ragtime^
  17. [17:59:36] <Ragtime^> Yes, but the only poll that counts is the electoral college.
  18. [18:00:03] <JohnGuru> I hear the white house staff makes up fake polls for Donald :)
  19. [18:00:07] <Malkovich> Supply-side economic reforms have never actually led to an economic boom.
  20. [18:00:33] <Ragtime^> Ronald Reagan started an 18 year bull market.
  21. [18:00:39] <JohnGuru> he is too narcissistic to be able to handle the truth (didn't somebody make a movie about that?), and he's too dumb to research the poll numbers himself
  22. [18:00:41] <Malkovich> After he raised taxes.
  23. [18:01:21] <Malkovich> We need to go back to Einsenhower-era progressive tax brackets.
  24. [18:01:33] <Malkovich> Eisenhower = last half-way decent Republican President.
  25. [18:01:38] <Ragtime^> That put him in a better position to politely tell Mr. Gorbachev to tear down a wall.
  26. [18:01:52] <Ragtime^> Under Eisenhower, there was a 90% tax bracket.
  27. [18:02:00] <JohnGuru> yes, and the country prospered
  28. [18:02:22] <JohnGuru> starting with Reagan, the richest people did well, but income of the working middle class stagnated
  29. [18:02:33] <JohnGuru> that's when, because of the new tax rates, income equality began to skyrocket
  30. [18:02:36] <JohnGuru> thank you Mr. Reagan
  31. [18:02:59] <Ragtime^> JohnGuru: do you propose a solution to that?
  32. [18:03:34] <JohnGuru> yes, several solutions actually. A whole raft of economic changes. I could post some videos by Richard Wolff, of Democracy at Work D@W organization, if you like
  33. [18:03:47] <JohnGuru> starting with hefty increases in the tax rates of the richest brackets
  34. [18:04:13] <Ragtime^> The one thing the American people overwhelmingly want is immigration control.
  35. [18:04:28] <JohnGuru> Ragtime^, you don't have the vaguest notion of what the American people want.
  36. [18:04:44] <JohnGuru> you're in the propaganda business, not the facts business
  37. [18:04:48] <Ragtime^> the last election gave me a clue
  38. [18:05:03] <JohnGuru> yes, me too! 2 million more votes for the Democrats
  39. [18:05:30] <JohnGuru> Turnip started out being a minority president, and it's getting worse
  40. [18:06:14] <JohnGuru> So Ragtime^, ifyou want to drive your car into some liberals, now is the time before the 2018 midterms.
  41. [18:07:54] <Ragtime^> JohnGuru: That would be against the law. I found that I can do more damage to the enemy if I comply with the law.
  42. [18:08:25] <JohnGuru> Don't see why you should comply with the law, Ragtime^. Nobody in Trump's administration does
  43. [18:08:54] <JohnGuru> you can probably get a pardon, just like Nazi Joe Arpaio :)
  44. [18:09:17] <Ragtime^> I don't recall ever seeing Sheriff Joe wearing a swastika arm band.
  45. [18:09:21] <JohnGuru> the gangsta president
  46. [18:10:07] <Ragtime^> I just received an offer that I cannot refuse.
  47. [18:10:12] JohnGuru deep breaths
  48. [18:11:01] <Ragtime^> The leader of a political party has asked me to be his speechwriter.
  49. [18:12:05] <JohnGuru> okay, I'll give you a tip, Ragtime^. It's not a good idea to call him "der Fuehrer."
  50. [18:12:21] <Ragtime^> I don't know German anyway.
  51. [18:12:34] <JohnGuru> but you know that phrase :)
  52. [18:13:24] <Malkovich> Lugenpresse!
  53. [18:13:32] <JohnGuru> whoa
  54. [18:13:46] <JohnGuru> that's the German translation of "Fox News" isn't it
  55. [18:14:05] <Malkovich> haha
  56. [18:14:08] <Malkovich> Basically.
  57. [18:14:42] <Ragtime^> you prefer fake news?
  58. [18:15:18] <JohnGuru> nah. I finally blocked Fox News posts to my timeline, Ragtime^
  59. [18:15:43] <JohnGuru> I thought I might learn something by monitoring, but it was nothing but hate posts
  60. [18:15:52] <Ragtime^> It is aways nice to have a free press.
  61. [18:17:41] <JohnGuru> I see they've ramped up a propaganda war against Mueller now. That's going to be fun
  62. [18:18:00] <JohnGuru> little donnie tinyhands is shaking in his boots, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it
  63. [18:18:28] JohnGuru (~jvalley69@JohnGuru.users.undernet.org) left the channel
  64. [18:18:46] JohnGuru (~jvalley69@JohnGuru.users.undernet.org) joined the channel
  65. [18:19:02] <JohnGuru> oh look, somebody changed the topic bar
  66. [18:19:04] X sets mode +o JohnGuru
  67. [18:19:18] JohnGuru changed the topic to Best of Season's Greetings to the whole #Philosophical Family
  68. [18:19:57] <JohnGuru> there is an extensive series of biblical commentary lecdtures on YouTube, if anyone is interested
  69. [18:20:30] <JohnGuru> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-wWBGo6a2w&t=7458s
  70. [18:20:34] <lakituscloud> — "Biblical Series I: Introduction to the Idea of God - YouTube"
  71. [18:20:55] <JohnGuru> rather peculiar series. The standpoint of critique is psychoanalytic theory...
  72. [18:21:12] <JohnGuru> typical episode is about 2 1/2 hrs long, and there are 15 episodes now
  73. [18:21:27] <JohnGuru> so it's not "light" reading :)
  74. [18:21:45] <JohnGuru> I'm up to episode VIII
  75. [18:21:58] <muadnem> There's a good montage of Obama saying merry Christmas publicly about 100 times on YouTube. The 'war on Christmas' never existed.
  76. [18:22:16] <JohnGuru> well, facts don't matter to propaganda organizations, do they
  77. [18:22:36] <JohnGuru> in fact, in fascist states, facts are often considered subversive
  78. [18:22:40] <muadnem> Obama seems way more likely to actually be a Christian than trump.
  79. [18:22:51] <JohnGuru> *nods*
  80. [18:22:59] Skept (~ooo@Whirl.users.undernet.org) left IRC (Quit)
  81. [18:23:04] <JohnGuru> nobody can seriously believe Trump can even spell "Christian"
  82. [18:23:13] <JohnGuru> "Chrisfefe"
  83. [18:23:17] <Malkovich> :o
  84. [18:26:25] <leeloo`> incorrect, the war on christmas exists because it rallies the conservative base to believe it exists
  85. [18:27:17] FreqOff2Bed is now known as EbenezerFreq
  86. [18:27:32] <JohnGuru> merry christmas EbenezerFreq
  87. [18:27:42] <EbenezerFreq> Merry Christmas JohnGuru
  88. [18:28:01] Skept (~ooo@Whirl.users.undernet.org) joined the channel
  89. [18:28:03] <JohnGuru> friend of mine used to call it "capitalist hogfest day"
  90. [18:28:12] <JohnGuru> needless to say, he was a marxist
  91. [18:28:19] JohnGuru sets mode -o JohnGuru
  92. [18:28:22] <muadnem> It probably stems from public schools being denied nativity scenes and such
  93. [18:28:46] <JohnGuru> leeloo, they will believe anything, won't they :)
  94. [18:29:03] <muadnem> That's where Christianity is the most oppressed.
  95. [18:29:05] <JohnGuru> like cows with a nose ring
  96. [18:29:56] <JohnGuru> it started with Limbaugh's "dittoheads"
  97. [18:29:57] Tybalt (~Tybalt@Tybalt.users.undernet.org) joined the channel
  98. [18:30:04] X sets mode +l 45
  99. [18:30:29] <JohnGuru> he would spit bile and fan the flames of righteous anger, and people would line up to shoot somebody, anybody
  100. [18:30:33] Tybalt (~Tybalt@Tybalt.users.undernet.org) left IRC (Quit: Leaving)
  101. [18:30:46] <JohnGuru> all in the name of fun, of course
  102. [18:30:52] <JohnGuru> it was just radio entertainment :)
  103. [18:30:56] <leeloo`> weren't ditto machines notoriously degrading to the information?
  104. [18:31:15] <JohnGuru> I dunno
  105. [18:31:33] <JohnGuru> you mean the copiers called "ditto" machines?
  106. [18:31:42] <leeloo`> faded purple heat activated
  107. [18:31:50] <JohnGuru> yes. very poor quality
  108. [18:32:01] <leeloo`> one ditto, dittoed became nearly illegible
  109. [18:32:34] <leeloo`> i think that sums up the rush limbaugh phenomenon nicely, don't you?
  110. [18:33:16] <JohnGuru> last I saw, Fox News was using the method popularized during world war II by the japanese for identifying american planes. FN puts up an image of a liberal political figure, some enemy of their 'state,' and scrawl a message of hate over it. Everybody gets to post a comment about how vile this person is.
  111. [18:33:46] <JohnGuru> it's very personal, and it's very incendiary
  112. [18:34:03] <JohnGuru> no informational content whatsoever. Just mocking excoriation
  113. [18:34:20] <leeloo`> it's like whispering a secret around a circle, the end result is wildly weird
  114. [18:34:27] <Malkovich> http://thumbnails.mibbit.com/unsafe/32x32/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_ten_military_expenditures_in_$_in_2013.jpg.jpeg
  115. [18:34:45] <Ragtime^> Rush Limbaugh helps people see thought the fake news.
  116. [18:34:57] <JohnGuru> there's a great documentary, "The Brainwashing of my Dad" that describes the slow character change of the narrator's father as he succumed to right wing hate radio
  117. [18:35:06] <Malkovich> Hm.
  118. [18:35:09] <Malkovich> Is that image working?
  119. [18:35:18] <fattratt> no
  120. [18:35:22] <Malkovich> :|
  121. [18:35:42] <Malkovich> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_ten_military_expenditures_in_$_in_2013.jpg.jpeg
  122. [18:35:45] <Malkovich> How about that?
  123. [18:36:02] friida presents Malkovich with a neatly packaged and wrapped box of poo with a bow on it
  124. [18:36:07] <Malkovich> :)
  125. [18:36:13] <+friida> merry christmas malkovich
  126. [18:36:25] Malkovich uses the poo to fertilize his garden.
  127. [18:36:51] <leeloo`> ewwwww
  128. [18:37:07] <leeloo`> nice save Malkovich
  129. [18:37:14] <Malkovich> hehe
  130. [18:37:16] <Malkovich> thanks
  131. [18:38:19] geo5 (~ohno@geo5.users.undernet.org) joined the channel
  132. [18:39:30] <Ragtime^> http://www.picpaste.com/TheyHateUs-zN5dRGNq.jpg
  133. [18:40:18] <Malkovich> There's no such thing as "white heritage"; there's, like, German heritage, or Spanish heritage, or Italian heritage, or English heritage ...
  134. [18:40:33] <Malkovich> ... but European culture is not a monolithic thing.
  135. [18:41:31] <+friida> the african human genome on the continent of africa has far more depth than the rest of the world
  136. [18:41:54] <JohnGuru> I believe that's true
  137. [18:42:08] <+friida> all the emigre's from there amounted to a very small portion of the whole, and then THEY spread out and became asians and europeans etc
  138. [18:42:19] <JohnGuru> *nods*
  139. [18:42:26] <mime> http://www.businessinsider.com/i-tried-the-new-23andme-genetic-test-2015-12?r=US&IR=T&IR=T
  140. [18:42:28] <lakituscloud> — "I tried the new 23andMe genetic test - Business Insider"
  141. [18:42:38] <JohnGuru> and then they began to intermix, erasing what distinctiveness they had
  142. [18:42:43] <+friida> so the rest of us are like a lil' subset of humanity, with all the inherent errors that entails
  143. [18:43:08] <JohnGuru> ah, so your point is that Fox News it he result of inbreeding :)
  144. [18:43:14] <mime> JohnGuru Its actually the opposite way...
  145. [18:43:48] <+friida> foxnews is the result of parent child couplings, sibling couplings, etc, for at least five generations
  146. [18:44:29] <+friida> the toothbrush was invented at fox news, otherwise it would have been called the Teeth Brush
  147. [18:44:54] <JohnGuru> hmm
  148. [18:44:57] <mime> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_drift#/media/File:Random_sampling_genetic_drift.svg
  149. [18:45:01] <lakituscloud> — "Genetic drift - Wikipedia"
  150. [18:45:06] <mime> Here is a simple mathematical model illustrating it.
  151. [18:45:07] <+friida> The fox news family tree rivals the branchless spear of the washington monument
  152. [18:45:27] <mime> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_drift#/media/File:Population_bottleneck.jpg
  153. [18:45:35] <mime> Here is an advanced genetical model illustrating how this works.
  154. [18:46:18] <mime> JohnGuru Well, so you are correct on inter-specie level, so to speak. But I dont take regard to subsets when saying its the opposite way.
  155. [18:47:08] <mime> Its genetic segregation which occurs at inter-specie level.
  156. [18:47:23] <mime> Thus variations become smaller and smaller within the same species, but bigger compared to others.
  157. [18:47:25] <JohnGuru> There was a project sponsored by National Geographic called the Genographic project. They invited people to send in a sample of their DNA, typically a swab of the inside of one's mouth, and they would identify the various genetic branches of one's ancestors. Many people who thought they were "pure white" had african forebears, and people who hated jews had some jewish ancestors... it
  158. [18:47:25] <JohnGuru> was very eye-opening for the participants
  159. [18:47:45] <mime> Such "surprises" just comes from ignorance in the first place...
  160. [18:48:07] <JohnGuru> there's just no such thing as a "white man"
  161. [18:48:32] <mime> Well, thats a little strange, JohnGuru. First of all, there is really no such thing as homo sapiens - there is no specie-type for that.
  162. [18:49:03] <mime> "nlike every other human species, Homo sapiens does not have a true type specimen. In other words, there is not a particular Homo sapiens individual that researchers recognize as being the specimen that gave Homo sapiens its name. "
  163. [18:49:05] <Ragtime^> If the liberals claim that race does not exist, then why do they push affirmative action?
  164. [18:49:06] <mime> Unlike*
  165. [18:49:11] <mime> http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/homo-sapiens
  166. [18:49:14] <lakituscloud> — "Homo sapiens | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program"
  167. [18:50:01] <JohnGuru> Ragtime^, the U.S. is the most racist country in the world
  168. [18:50:03] <mime> Many people think we come from One Origin, like Adam and Eve in Creationism. Thats not so according to the Fossil records. There are multiple origins, it was actually springtime in Sibir some centuries ago.
  169. [18:50:59] <mime> So when one say "there is no such thing as a white man" - thats strange at multiple levels.
  170. [18:51:08] <fattratt> So when did the biped lose its feathers?
  171. [18:51:11] <JohnGuru> there is no such thing as a white man
  172. [18:51:23] <mime> Yeah, you can repeat it, JohnGuru, but what does it mean?
  173. [18:51:42] <+friida> when did the dinosaurs gain their feathers?
  174. [18:51:51] <mime> Likewise we could say; there is no humans, only st
  175. [18:52:05] <mime> ... only stardust, but that makes as little sense and isnt really helpful in any regard.
  176. [18:52:07] <JohnGuru> well, i'm bbl
  177. [18:52:16] JohnGuru (~jvalley69@JohnGuru.users.undernet.org) left IRC (Quit: nap time)
  178. [18:53:10] <mime> There is huge variations and differences between humans, much bigger than seen in other animals and their subsets, for example. Just look at an Asian, and a Caucasian.
  179. [18:53:47] <fattratt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sH0uR2u7Hs
  180. [18:53:51] <lakituscloud> — "Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young - Woodstock - YouTube"
  181. [18:53:57] <mime> Here even the origins is different, you know and consist of exclusive and specific admixture. These differences will no go away by changing some definitions or looking at the world from a different perspective.
  182. [18:54:07] <mime> These are natural differences, and as seen by genetic drift, they arent going to go away.
  183. [18:54:21] <+friida> the way i see it is darker skin colour is a result of evolution in regards to the harsh effects of the Sun, so first humans lose their body hair, then the skin is affected and changes to darker skin (over generations)
  184. [18:54:34] <+friida> what this means is white people only recently lost their fur
  185. [18:54:44] friida raises a defiant eyebrow
  186. [18:55:11] <mime> Well, skin-color is really a bad anthropological standard, and many misunderstand it due to phenotypical categorization of humans according to their color; such is much more than skin-deep.
  187. [18:55:36] <mime> A "white black person", for example one suffering from albinoism, is still not the same human as the other object.
  188. [18:55:48] <+friida> yes, but my explanation is petty enough to explode thru the meme world if propogated rush limbaugh style
  189. [18:56:20] <+friida> survival of the fittest and all that
  190. [18:56:26] <+friida> Wagner would be so proud!
  191. [18:57:57] <mime> Its simply not correct that skin-color is merely a phenotypical trait. Its genetical and it constitute one of our differences, which is much more than color by itself. A Spaniards is as little a black man as a Chinese is Caucasian.
  192. [18:58:29] <mime> For some reason we must also call black people for black, and not by their scientific name.
  193. [18:58:34] <mime> That also confuse the debate.
  194. [18:58:39] <+friida> https://news.expats.cz/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/ice-age-4.jpg
  195. [18:59:22] <+friida> their scientific name being: Homo Sapiens?
  196. [18:59:51] <Ragtime^> with a lowercase s
  197. [19:00:26] <mime> As I have already explained, homo sapiens is just a general term for some species which appear to act and behave in specific manners. There is no specie-type for this specie.
  198. [19:00:36] <+friida> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5T4jWt2EfE
  199. [19:00:39] <lakituscloud> — "Lewis Black on Christmas -- I'M DREAMING OF A BLACK CHRISTMAS - YouTube"
  200. [19:00:47] <mime> So a black man or a white man - who is human? We dont know. Its just a name for them both. The scientific name for black people is Negroid.
  201. [19:01:01] <+friida> who is human?
  202. [19:01:02] <+friida> both are
  203. [19:01:21] <mime> Yeah, I have already explained that confusion. "Homo Sapiens" is just a name, its not a specie-type.
  204. [19:01:30] <+friida> a black and a white can successfully breed repeatedly and reproduce progeny who can also breed with anybody
  205. [19:01:32] <+friida> no mules
  206. [19:01:35] <+friida> no monsters
  207. [19:01:38] <+friida> just people
  208. [19:01:57] <+friida> human is defined by that
  209. [19:02:04] <mime> hehe
  210. [19:02:08] <+friida> it's not like a horse breeding with a donkey
  211. [19:02:22] <mime> A horse and a donkey is two different species, they arent subgroups.
  212. [19:02:28] <+friida> correct
  213. [19:02:35] <mime> That you need sexual compatability to consiste subgroups is BS.
  214. [19:02:40] <mime> There are thousands of subgroups of mice.
  215. [19:02:46] <mime> constitute*
  216. [19:02:53] <+friida> a black person and a white person have less than 1/2 variation between them
  217. [19:03:19] <mime> That would depend on how many alleles you investigate. If you only take 20, there are fewer differences; they are still differences. If you take 100; there are only differneces, hehe.
  218. [19:03:22] <mime> Let me show you.
  219. [19:03:31] <+friida> i don't believe you
  220. [19:03:42] <mime> Thats not my problem. I have the evidence, hehe.
  221. [19:04:23] <mime> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1180234/
  222. [19:04:25] <+friida> so my saying i don't believe you stops you from presenting your "evidence" mmmmmk
  223. [19:04:27] <lakituscloud> — "Human Population Genetic Structure and Inference of Group Membership"
  224. [19:04:27] <mime> See figure 5.
  225. [19:04:37] <+friida> ooo pictures!
  226. [19:04:51] <mime> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1180234/figure/FG5/
  227. [19:04:54] <lakituscloud> — "PubMed Central, Figure 5: Am J Hum Genet. 2003 Mar; 72(3): 578–589. Published online 2003 Jan 28. doi: 10.1086/368061"
  228. [19:05:01] <mime> Here you can see the findings when we compare alleles.
  229. [19:05:13] <+friida> oh dear, that's 14 years out of date!
  230. [19:05:24] <mime> Thats genetical science.
  231. [19:05:31] <mime> Its very dogmatic.
  232. [19:05:41] <+friida> i'm sure you believe that
  233. [19:05:49] <mime> As we see, even when we only compare 20 alleles, there are huge differences.
  234. [19:06:19] <+friida> one person has dark skin, the other has light skin?
  235. [19:06:21] <+friida> ooooo
  236. [19:06:28] <+friida> that's YUGE
  237. [19:06:31] <mime> Thats a difference, yes, but its much more than color-deep.
  238. [19:06:54] <mime> A black person has a different genetic and metaphorical differences.
  239. [19:07:11] <mime> Its a different subgroup of what some call homo sapiens.
  240. [19:07:13] <+friida> by golly we should round them all up in corrals!
  241. [19:07:25] <mime> Dont act silly, friida.
  242. [19:07:29] <mime> You discredit your own position.
  243. [19:07:33] <+friida> we can't have them weird ass semihumans contaminating us!
  244. [19:07:59] <mime> Yeah... When people who dont know science, and even dont accept science, begin to address a topic at that level - they have lost.
  245. [19:08:02] <+friida> i have no position
  246. [19:08:06] <mime> Dont do this, friida, you discredit serious people.
  247. [19:08:26] <+friida> i'll react to science when i see science
  248. [19:08:42] <+friida> all i see here is Look at this, it's online, so it has to be true!
  249. [19:08:50] <mime> hehe
  250. [19:09:37] <mime> There are some misnomers around, and they are very bad to base science upon and especially a debate about science.
  251. [19:09:52] <mime> Like Creationism, its simply not a good place to begin.
  252. [19:10:31] <mime> Go to a Museum instead, and look at the fossil records. They are many, they are diverse and they are different.
  253. [19:10:43] <mime> To deny that is simply anti-scientifical and not serious.
  254. [19:11:41] <+friida> this is online, so it has to be true: https://www.salon.com/2017/08/28/stormfront-internets-oldest-major-racist-website-has-domain-suspended/
  255. [19:11:44] <lakituscloud> — "Stormfront, the internet’s oldest major racist website, has domain suspended - Salon.com"
  256. [19:11:47] <mime> You dont need many scientifically observations to establish that there are differences between an Asian and an European. But science tells us why this is, how this is and what to make of it - to simply reject science and what we observe, based upon some misnomer, is simply not smart.
  257. [19:11:51] <mime> It discredit very serious people.
  258. [19:12:52] <mime> It discredits all evidences, it discredits everything we value as accuracy, proof, yes, the entire scientific discipline is undermined by such.
  259. [19:13:55] <mime> We could just as well become Scientologists :-)
  260. [19:14:32] <+friida> all right, i'm clear, now what? (Charles Manson at the Hollywood Scientology Center)
  261. [19:14:36] mazy^afk (mazygrace@24-113-242-93.wavecable.com) left IRC (Quit: I'm in the 'snapdragon' time of my life, part of me has snapped and the other part is draggin!)
  262. [19:15:48] friida not smart enuf for science
  263. [19:16:05] <mime> The second world war and what is portrayed as the horrors therefor, is probably the most substantial reasons to why many rejects truth and reality to the benefit of anti-science, but thats not doing science, thats doing horseshit.
  264. [19:16:30] <mime> At BEST, rhetorics. But its not even rhetorics.
  265. [19:16:34] <+friida> yes! yes! the second world war was nothing but fun!!!
  266. [19:16:37] <+friida> :D
  267. [19:16:51] <mime> Are you bored on Christmas Day, friida?
  268. [19:17:05] <+friida> merry christmas
  269. [19:17:17] <mime> Thank you and blessed Christmas to you and your family as well, friida :-)
  270. [19:18:14] friida writes that down on her calendar
  271. [19:18:24] <+friida> dec 25 is christmas
  272. [19:18:27] <+friida> ok, got it
  273. [19:18:38] <mime> Well, its the Vigil, so Europe really celebrates the 24th.
  274. [19:19:13] <mime> After 17:00 on the 24th of December, Christmas has begun.
  275. [19:19:18] <+friida> dec 24 is christmas, got it
  276. [19:20:58] <mime> So, we have established that humans is really just a name and that what we denote by it is really different and diverse at all levels.
  277. [19:21:23] <+friida> and all those subspecies that claim to be human should be rounded up
  278. [19:21:32] <mime> "Human" is just a name.
  279. [19:21:36] <mime> There is no specie-type for it.
  280. [19:21:52] <+friida> so my dog is a human?
  281. [19:22:05] <mime> Dogs has a true specie-type, hehe.
  282. [19:22:10] <mime> Homo Sapiens do not.
  283. [19:22:27] <mime> This is where the creationist narrative of the lacking transitional fossils comes from, you know.
  284. [19:22:32] <+friida> so homo sapiens are wanna be dogs, wanna be chimps, wanna be marmosets, etc?
  285. [19:22:34] <mime> They arent lacking; they are just not homo sapiens.
  286. [19:23:18] <mime> Homo sapiens is just a name we use of the diverse and different offsprings of the various humanoid ancestors.
  287. [19:23:27] <mime> It do not have a true type.
  288. [19:23:30] <+friida> so, YOU are not homo sapiens?
  289. [19:23:47] <+friida> pardon my french, what the phuc are you?
  290. [19:24:04] <mime> Homo Sapiens is just a name we use to denote all the diverse offsprings of humanoid ancestors who arent homo sapiens.
  291. [19:24:13] <mime> Its just more accurate to call me Caucasian.
  292. [19:24:15] <Malkovich> uh
  293. [19:24:46] <mime> "Unlike every other human species, Homo sapiens does not have a true type specimen. In other words, there is not a particular Homo sapiens individual that researchers recognize as being the specimen that gave Homo sapiens its name."
  294. [19:24:52] <+friida> so you are ignoring scientific nomenclature of speciation in order to be a special white race?
  295. [19:24:55] <mime> Smithsonian institute.
  296. [19:25:15] <mime> Of course not, friida - I just use it according to scientific nomenclature correctly.
  297. [19:25:20] <mime> Its just a name without a true type.
  298. [19:25:31] <+friida> I am not caucasion
  299. [19:25:32] heythere (~me@h3yth3r3.users.undernet.org) joined the channel
  300. [19:25:37] <mime> So what?
  301. [19:25:38] <+friida> i'm a subhuman
  302. [19:25:46] <+friida> no wonder you can't teach me anything
  303. [19:25:46] <mime> Then you are something else, friida and thats equally fantastic?
  304. [19:25:54] <mime> So many misnomers here.
  305. [19:26:27] <+friida> hell, i'm not even human
  306. [19:26:31] <+friida> thanks mime
  307. [19:26:43] <mime> Its just a name used to denote the offsprings of non-homo sapiens, yes.
  308. [19:26:58] <mime> As you are such an offspring, you are of course a human, friida. But its not very scientifical. Its just a name.
  309. [19:27:01] <mime> It has no type.
  310. [19:27:05] <+friida> so why do they even use the name homo sapiens,
  311. [19:27:10] <mime> I explained that, friida.
  312. [19:27:16] <+friida> shouldn't they excise it from the language?
  313. [19:27:18] <+friida> you did?
  314. [19:27:30] <+friida> sorry, i have the attention span of a bird sapiens
  315. [19:27:35] <mime> Its merely a concept, a terminology, friida.
  316. [19:27:51] <mime> You must understand what this terminology denote, in order to use it correctly. It do not denote a speciemen.
  317. [19:28:29] <+friida> we could just change the dictionary definition to say human being is john glenn
  318. [19:28:35] <+friida> then it would have a spaceman
  319. [19:28:51] Deanr` (~Deanr@24-113-62-167.wavecable.com) joined the channel
  320. [19:28:51] Deanr` (~Deanr@24-113-62-167.wavecable.com) left IRC (Registered)
  321. [19:28:51] Deanr` (~Deanr@Deanr.users.undernet.org) joined the channel
  322. [19:29:01] <+friida> Deanr, are you a human being
  323. [19:29:02] <+friida> ?
  324. [19:29:03] <mime> It would be correct to say that every offspring of mentioned humanoid ancestors are called human, but they have no true ancient type or anything like that. Its merely a name.
  325. [19:29:24] <+friida> so we are all Bob
  326. [19:29:28] <mime> Yeah
  327. [19:29:28] <+friida> ?
  328. [19:29:28] <Deanr`> friida: last I checked, yes
  329. [19:29:38] <+friida> mime, tell him why he's wrong
  330. [19:29:44] <mime> And there are many different bobs and they are more and less alike and such, according to which group you compare.
  331. [19:29:48] <+friida> mime is telling me human beings do not exist
  332. [19:29:58] <mime> You are very dishonest, friida.
  333. [19:29:59] <+friida> only caucasians and negroids exist
  334. [19:30:03] <Deanr`> friida: oh, well....
  335. [19:30:07] <mime> Its better to be dumb, but I am not sure you are dumb.
  336. [19:30:20] <+friida> mime, I don't believe you
  337. [19:30:28] <mime> Its very clear that the offsprings of mentioned ancestors exist, friida.
  338. [19:30:32] <thymos^> i am mime's favorite negroid
  339. [19:30:32] <+friida> I think you have a very definite surety about me
  340. [19:30:33] <mime> But its merely a name; its not a type.
  341. [19:30:54] <+friida> you are my favourite negroid too, thymos
  342. [19:30:58] <thymos^> thank u
  343. [19:31:08] <thymos^> <3
  344. [19:31:15] friida smoochhugs thymos
  345. [19:31:17] <+friida> merry xmas
  346. [19:31:21] <thymos^> merry xmas:)
  347. [19:31:32] <mime> Blessed Christmas to you and yours, thymos^!
  348. [19:31:52] <thymos^> merry xmas to you too mime
  349. [19:31:59] <+friida> happy birth of zombieboy!
  350. [19:33:50] <mime> So, homo sapiens is merely a general term used about the diverse and different offsprings of equally diverse and different ancestors.
  351. [19:34:02] <mime> Its not a species-type.
  352. [19:34:06] <+friida> are you a raccoon then?
  353. [19:34:14] <mime> Thats not the same thing, friida. Please.
  354. [19:34:51] <+friida> all homonids can be traced back to Lucy
  355. [19:35:02] <mime> Thats not correct.
  356. [19:35:04] <+friida> Charlie Brown is nowhere to be found
  357. [19:35:11] <mime> Lucky was sensationalism 101.
  358. [19:35:15] <mime> Lucy.
  359. [19:35:31] <+friida> i was talkin' about peanuts
  360. [19:35:34] <+friida> sheesh
  361. [19:35:36] <+friida> so serious
  362. [19:36:02] <fattratt> Bipes nonpinnatus
  363. [19:36:19] <+friida> gesundheit?
  364. [19:36:38] Malkovich (177432cd@ircip1.mibbit.com) left IRC (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  365. [19:37:02] <mime> There are many misnomers also regarding ancient humanoid ancestors as well, for example that all of them came from Africa and such. That is absolutely not true; there are several of these creatures, and they are all over the planet, mostly in Europe.
  366. [19:37:27] Ragtime^ (~Ragtime@cpe-104-175-222-202.socal.res.rr.com) left IRC (Ping timeout)
  367. [19:37:32] <+friida> and they are all alive and well today?
  368. [19:37:55] <+friida> pardon me for a moment
  369. [19:38:03] <mime> If you are religious, sure.
  370. [19:38:12] friida ramtacklhugz fattratt and kisses fattratt all over
  371. [19:38:14] <+friida> ok
  372. [19:38:16] <+friida> :)
  373. [19:38:27] <fattratt> Thanks friida
  374. [19:38:57] fattratt feels slightly less scroogy after that.
  375. [19:39:21] friida raises her eyebrow
  376. [19:39:25] <+friida> =D
  377. [19:39:28] <mime> https://archive.org/stream/recentdiscoveries00hrdlrich#page/n0/mode/2up
  378. [19:39:31] <lakituscloud> — "Recent discoveries attributed to early man in America"
  379. [19:39:45] <mime> Here is a book regarding ancient humans in America which I came over some weeks ago, and will probably interest a lot of people.
  380. [19:40:00] <+friida> definition: Early Man - One who sets the alarm clock to 4am
  381. [19:40:09] <mime> hehe
  382. [19:40:13] <fattratt> hehe
  383. [19:40:28] <+friida> it's so biased towards men tho
  384. [19:40:41] <+friida> what about ancient women in America? like me?
  385. [19:42:21] <+friida> i guess women have contributed nothing to the non species of humans
  386. [19:43:06] <+friida> we should all be rounded up and shot off in a rocket
  387. [19:43:07] <thymos^> men rule. women DROOL
  388. [19:45:38] <fattratt> http://www.bartleby.com/246/1066.html
  389. [19:45:40] <lakituscloud> — "A Thought by James Kenneth Stephen. Edmund Clarence Stedman, ed. 1895. A Victorian Anthology, 1837-1895"
  390. [19:48:09] <+friida> I think it's agreed then, the men should rise up and kill all women
  391. [19:48:33] <thymos^> i prefer making them sex slaves
  392. [19:48:36] <zenmonkey> what did you say about shooting off a rocket?
  393. [19:48:57] <+friida> what did you say about shooting off a rocket?
  394. [19:49:22] <fattratt> Do you think Kim will do it?
  395. [19:49:31] <thymos^> i'm not a premature rocket shooter
  396. [19:49:42] <+friida> Kim is the angriest lesbian in the world, of course she will
  397. [19:50:01] <zenmonkey> kim's rocket tech comes from a chinese firework factory
  398. [19:51:14] <zenmonkey> it's like watchign someone adjust a catapault
  399. [19:51:38] <+friida> that's right, unless it's american, it's inferior!
  400. [19:53:26] <+friida> that's why we have the fastest passenger tra....um
  401. [19:53:37] <+friida> that's why we have the best health ca......oh
  402. [19:53:47] <+friida> that's why we have the fairest taxat......
  403. [19:53:48] <+friida> shit
  404. [19:53:57] <+friida> back to the drawing board
  405. [19:54:45] <zenmonkey> well we're losing all the jobs. the rest of the population needs to support the corporations through taxes and cut corporate taxes to bring those jobs back! then we'll have the best stuff.
  406. [19:55:08] <+friida> AMERICA WILL HAVE THE BEST OFF SHORE CORPORATIONS
  407. [19:55:12] <+friida> donald trump
  408. [19:55:31] <zenmonkey> the US came up with the idea of robots. the japanese just spent years making them better, that's all
  409. [19:55:58] <+friida> robots?
  410. [19:56:02] <zenmonkey> other countries just made the products better, they didn't dream up the ideas.
  411. [19:56:15] <+friida> wait a moment, robots will put all of us dark people out of work!
  412. [19:56:30] <zenmonkey> like the automobile. henry ford dreamed up the idea, other countries just excel at making them more efficient and affordable, that's all
  413. [19:56:33] <+friida> that's right, America invented the WHEEL
  414. [19:56:44] <zenmonkey> right, and everyone else just improved the wheel
  415. [19:57:49] <+friida> AMeriCA invented firearms!
  416. [19:57:57] <+friida> America invented the compass!
  417. [19:58:08] <+friida> america invented glass!
  418. [19:58:15] <zenmonkey> america invented the standard system of measurements. europe wanted to copy us and invented metric units
  419. [19:58:18] <+friida> America invented the Printing Press!
  420. [19:58:26] <zenmonkey> thats' right
  421. [19:58:30] <+friida> by golly, we're so fuckin' awesome!
  422. [19:59:33] <+friida> the microscope, the telescope, radio, submarines, photography, helicopters, dynamite.... ALL AMERICAN
  423. [19:59:39] <+friida> oh, wait
  424. [19:59:41] <+friida> sorry,
  425. [19:59:49] <+friida> none of those things were invented in america
  426. [20:00:24] <zenmonkey> that's because of jewish interference in hollywood
  427. [20:00:54] <+friida> ᵒᵒᵖѕ
  428. [20:02:28] <fattratt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZixtwdqGR8
  429. [20:02:31] <lakituscloud> — "Does Santa Claus Exist - YouTube"
  430. [20:02:37] <zenmonkey> well benjamin franklin was american, he invented electricity
  431. [20:02:43] <Cyberclaus> jews in space!
  432. [20:03:02] <zenmonkey> he used a kite and a key
  433. [20:03:30] <zenmonkey> and don't forget, einstein was an american
  434. [20:04:07] <zenmonkey> he invented spacetime. see? all american
  435. [20:04:42] <zenmonkey> other countries have spacetime because they just copied our ideas
  436. [20:07:36] <fattratt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8LmMtScH3g
  437. [20:07:39] <lakituscloud> — "All I Want for Christmas Is... Jews - YouTube"
  438. [20:10:43] <Cyberclaus> demented
  439. [20:10:55] <Cyberclaus> weirdness makes me straight (tm)
  440. [20:16:50] <fattratt> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clerk_Maxwell
  441. [20:16:55] <lakituscloud> — "James Clerk Maxwell - Wikipedia"
  442. [20:17:13] <fattratt> Invented colour photography.
  443. [20:17:31] <fattratt> And was big in radio.
  444. [20:17:31] <Cyberclaus> James Burke ...
  445. [20:17:40] <mime> So, we are discussing; how many people with American citizenship has contributed to science?
  446. [20:17:42] <Cyberclaus> invented nothing but commented a lot on it
  447. [20:18:00] <fattratt> yes
  448. [20:18:28] <fattratt> Anyway, JCM is buried just up the road.
  449. [20:19:39] <mime> Boring topic, really.
  450. [20:19:57] <Cyberclaus> jude the obscure is fun
  451. [20:20:07] <Cyberclaus> JTO
  452. [20:20:14] <mime> I think one must be pretty mad to postulate that people with American citizenship do not contribute to science, hehe.
  453. [20:20:19] <Cyberclaus> on an unrelated and stupid note
  454. [20:21:01] <mime> But then again, America is merely 250 years old. There has been done a lot of reaserch before that time, and also after that time in already established countries, like England and Germany.
  455. [20:21:01] <zenmonkey> !phrase
  456. [20:21:02] Socrates says: Was she so loved because her eyes were so beautiful or were her eyes so beautiful because she was loved? -Anzia Yezierska-
  457. [20:21:31] <mime> Its only natural that Americans, as a legal term, come late to the show, so to speak.
  458. [20:22:06] <mime> But I dont think that has stopped them from obtaining both acknowledgment, reputation and progress in understanding.
  459. [20:22:56] <Cyberclaus> the world is ancient... 20 years at a time
  460. [20:23:06] <Cyberclaus> last I looked nobody is 1,000 years old
  461. [20:23:36] <zenmonkey> they keep it secret
  462. [20:24:21] <mime> There is also this sociological factor, that "American" is more a legal term than a scientific term. Like dr. Ivar Giæver, who won the nobel prize in physics. He later became American, and thus didnt win this prize for America...
  463. [20:24:28] <mime> Randomness like that.
  464. [20:24:36] <zenmonkey> the monkey king downed the medicine of immortality, and he was hunted, as anyone who ate his skin would be immortal
  465. [20:24:50] <Cyberclaus> America is an unknown bastardization
  466. [20:24:51] Deanr` (~Deanr@Deanr.users.undernet.org) left IRC (Ping timeout)
  467. [20:24:59] <zenmonkey> and so he fought demon after demon. that's why people who live for 1000 years keep it secret
  468. [20:25:04] X sets mode +l 42
  469. [20:25:12] <mbog> hi *. happy merry.
  470. [20:25:25] <Cyberclaus> oh... pot poetry... I can dig it mannnnnn
  471. [20:25:28] <Cyberclaus> very cosmic
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  476. [20:36:30] EbenezerFreq strolls in
  477. [20:36:44] <fattratt> Hello EbenezerFreq
  478. [20:36:51] <fattratt> How are the ghosts?
  479. [20:39:35] ZShurp (~ZShurp@71.204.203.156) joined the channel
  480. [20:41:06] <Cyberclaus> did old men write that warning to old men?
  481. [20:48:10] Sol tunes into Scrooge-Radio.
  482. [20:48:29] <Sol> Hello
  483. [20:59:47] ZShurp (~ZShurp@71.204.203.156) left IRC (Quit)
  484. [21:03:27] <LionClan> David Hilbert did the algebraic union of time and space, and asked his friend Hermann Minkowski to investigate the geometric implications; Hermann Minkowski taught spacetime to Albert Einstein.
  485. [21:09:07] <LionClan> Bernhard Rust was the nazi minister of education and culture removed the Jewish influence from Gottingen University, so all three came to America.
  486. [21:14:08] <mime> Hilbert do not seem to have come to America, but died in Germany in 1943 according to Wikipedia.
  487. [21:16:44] <mime> Wikipedia could be wrong, but it lists some sources regarding these relations. However, there is a jewish stereotype which ruins any debate.
  488. [21:17:44] <mime> These stereotypes simply shut down any analytical approach to anything which involves "Jew", as identifier or similar.
  489. [21:18:52] <+friida> the jews are not a race
  490. [21:19:37] <mime> Well, that is a difficult topic. By some factors, a jew is simply a person born of a mother who held a certain religious opinion.
  491. [21:19:39] <Cyberclaus> abrahamic religions
  492. [21:19:51] <Cyberclaus> borrowed a lot from zoroaster
  493. [21:20:00] <+friida> correct
  494. [21:20:15] <mime> This is for example the case with converts, and generally also the attitude among the "native jews".
  495. [21:21:28] <mime> On the other hand, some scientists claims that there are some specific genetic markers exclusive to the jews, which is nothing but natural as they have amalgamated with other people and thus left their specific markers in some populations.
  496. [21:21:29] <+friida> there is no genetic difference at all between the jewish people of israel and the palestinians around them
  497. [21:21:30] ZShurp (~ZShurp@71.204.203.156) joined the channel
  498. [21:21:42] <mime> Hehe, exactly.
  499. [21:22:05] <mime> But that is a little generalized, I think. For jews are by no means a homogeneous group. If you travel to Israel, that will become very apparent.
  500. [21:22:07] <+friida> except for millions of aleles
  501. [21:22:36] <Cyberclaus> god wars was a thing
  502. [21:22:39] <Cyberclaus> rule the mobs
  503. [21:22:42] <+friida> a lot of citizens of israel have the connection to judaism generations back
  504. [21:22:55] <Cyberclaus> keep them paying taxes
  505. [21:23:01] <+friida> why are we all involved in the family squabbles of the middle east exactly?
  506. [21:23:13] <mime> There is also this show on YouTube, called "Ask an Israeli", which will serve the same purpose as an actual trip to Israel for observing this fact.
  507. [21:23:31] <mime> They come from all over the world, generally speaking.
  508. [21:23:38] <mime> And that is very, very apparent of course.
  509. [21:23:51] <Cyberclaus> I hear onanism is fun
  510. [21:24:04] <Cyberclaus> we're on our way to onan's land!
  511. [21:24:11] <Cyberclaus> where the sun always shines!
  512. [21:30:37] <mime> What is very clear on the other hand, is that jews as wanderers has strayed outside of the ghettos and their biological lineage and ancestry in some cases.
  513. [21:31:03] <Cyberclaus> is this the jew bashing hour again?
  514. [21:31:07] <Cyberclaus> equal time
  515. [21:31:10] <ZShurp> Hard to say
  516. [21:31:15] <Cyberclaus> bash ethiopians or something
  517. [21:31:17] <ZShurp> I can't tell why we're talking about Jews at al
  518. [21:31:17] <Cyberclaus> mix it up a bit
  519. [21:31:41] <mime> There are jewish Ethiopians, Cyberclaus.
  520. [21:31:51] <Cyberclaus> incorrigible
  521. [21:31:55] <ZShurp> I could start ranting about Zionism and Apartheid... but it's hard to tell why I should bother
  522. [21:32:00] <mime> They are very different from for example jewish Germans, Cyberclaus.
  523. [21:32:14] <Cyberclaus> did you get breast fed enough mime?
  524. [21:32:22] <ZShurp> Since obviously my opinion has no impact on US foreign policy or any way to change the mess in the ME
  525. [21:32:24] <mime> huh?
  526. [21:33:22] <mime> As I already said, I think there is a jewish stereotype which effectively ruins any debate and shit down any analytical approach to anything which involves "jews", as identifier or similar.
  527. [21:33:36] <mime> shut down
  528. [21:33:47] <Cyberclaus> oh I get it
  529. [21:33:58] <Cyberclaus> it is the generalized derogatory hour
  530. [21:34:00] <Cyberclaus> is that it?
  531. [21:34:28] <mime> Is there a problem to say that jews as being wanderers has with time strayed outside of their ghettos neighborhoods - much like black ghettos today - and their biological origins?
  532. [21:34:39] <mime> Its clear for example in the case of Jewish Germans, and Jewish Ethiopians.
  533. [21:35:37] <mime> I dont get your problem, Cyberclaus. It seems to be much more a private problem of rationalization and such, than an actual problem.
  534. [21:36:04] <Cyberclaus> you appear to be complaining about jews
  535. [21:36:05] <mime> Whats the problem, Cyberclaus? Cant speak about Jews, thats anti-semitism or something like that, speaking about Jews?
  536. [21:36:10] <ZShurp> mime, is it a problem to say that Betelgeuse has no observed planets?
  537. [21:36:15] JohnGuru (~jvalley69@JohnGuru.users.undernet.org) joined the channel
  538. [21:36:16] <Cyberclaus> complaining the key concept
  539. [21:36:17] <mime> Cyberclaus I am merely being objective and factual.
  540. [21:36:27] <Cyberclaus> weak argument
  541. [21:36:29] <Sol> Its THE JEWY JEW HOUR NOW?
  542. [21:36:32] <ZShurp> The variation in Betelgeuse's brightness was first described in 1836 by Sir John Herschel, when he published his observations in Outlines of Astronomy.
  543. [21:36:34] <mime> I am sorry, but accusation is even worse, Cyberclaus.
  544. [21:36:43] <zenmonkey> ZShurp what do you have against the betelgueze?
  545. [21:36:49] <Cyberclaus> you are steering the convo mime
  546. [21:36:53] <Cyberclaus> into idiocy
  547. [21:36:58] <ZShurp> zenmonkey, it doesn't have any observed planets. This is clearly a crime against planets
  548. [21:36:59] <Cyberclaus> it's fundamentally annoying
  549. [21:37:05] <mime> No, you are doing that, and you accuse people of things they have not said, done or intended.
  550. [21:37:11] X sets mode +o Cyberclaus
  551. [21:37:14] <ZShurp> Betelgeuse has committed planetcide
  552. [21:37:24] <@Cyberclaus> I have a better idea
  553. [21:37:33] Cyberclaus sets mode -o Cyberclaus
  554. [21:37:38] <JohnGuru> lol
  555. [21:37:47] X sets mode +o JohnValuk
  556. [21:37:52] <heythere> isn't that star a red giant, a dying star? .. maybe it absorbed all its planets when it expanded
  557. [21:37:53] <JohnGuru> ah
  558. [21:38:06] <JohnGuru> The Great and Powerful Oz
  559. [21:38:11] <Cyberclaus> hah
  560. [21:38:14] <mime> As I think is very obvious here, there is a jewish stereotype, often denoted by the term anti-semitism, which effectively shut down any analytical approach to anything "jewish", as identifier or similar.
  561. [21:38:25] <ZShurp> heythere, probably. Or blasted them out. Or we just can't observe them because the radial velocity method doesn't work on variable stars
  562. [21:38:36] <JohnGuru> merry xmas ZShurp, zenmonkey
  563. [21:38:38] <Sol> Do jews have a land holding right to Israel?
  564. [21:38:44] <zenmonkey> hey johnguru
  565. [21:38:45] <Sol> based in historical and biblical terms?
  566. [21:38:50] <@JohnValuk> your aggravation fest mime is about to end
  567. [21:38:52] <mime> We just have to accept the historical facts at this biological level, Cyberclaus. There is no problem with that.
  568. [21:39:05] <zenmonkey> well mime I'm not saying your mother is fat at all. not saying anything like that. and I'm certainly not going to comment on her sexuality.
  569. [21:39:14] <mime> huh?
  570. [21:39:31] <ZShurp> *OH*, well that is interesting
  571. [21:39:33] <mime> What is very clear on the other hand, is that jews as wanderers has strayed outside of the ghettos and their biological lineage and ancestry in some cases.
  572. [21:39:37] <zenmonkey> I didn't say anything is wrong about your mother's promiscuity
  573. [21:39:38] <mime> That is very obvious.
  574. [21:39:50] <mime> Such can be seen in the case of the diversity of groups in Israel, for example.
  575. [21:39:50] <JohnGuru> zen, you been reading Derrida again?
  576. [21:39:52] <Sol> I guess the Zionist started buying up land before WW II and the zion international congress was establsihed well before any sympathy of the british for jewish holocaust survivors. The Zionist congress was looking for a homeland I think.
  577. [21:39:55] <ZShurp> I just read that Betelgeuse is only 8 million years old -- too young for stars to have even formed
  578. [21:40:11] <ZShurp> It looks like giant stars don't stick around long enough for planets to form
  579. [21:40:18] <ZShurp> before they go *kaboom*
  580. [21:40:31] <JohnGuru> okay, I allow all kinds of dirty talk in here, but talking about astrophysics is asking for trouble
  581. [21:40:38] <Cyberclaus> hah
  582. [21:40:41] <Cyberclaus> star dirt
  583. [21:40:46] <JohnGuru> *nods*
  584. [21:41:02] <Cyberclaus> molecules that think
  585. [21:41:05] <Cyberclaus> very cosmic
  586. [21:41:09] <mime> I think some people are more emotional than rational when it comes to certain topics, and I dont know why the jewish topic is hypersensitive.
  587. [21:41:10] <Sol> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Zionist_Congress
  588. [21:41:12] <lakituscloud> — "First Zionist Congress - Wikipedia"
  589. [21:41:14] <Sol> first meeting 1897
  590. [21:41:15] <Cyberclaus> topic selection is a deep mystery
  591. [21:41:17] <JohnGuru> well, I don't believe molecules think
  592. [21:41:24] <Sol> they were interested in buying up land in palestine well before any modern wars
  593. [21:41:37] <JohnGuru> I've decided to come around to Dennett's point of view. Brains don't think, they just think they do
  594. [21:41:44] <Cyberclaus> mime the problem is that your inflammitory range is very narrow
  595. [21:41:46] <ZShurp> Hey, JG, I'm just relating certain facts about the evolution of giant stars, I'm not trying to stereotype anyone
  596. [21:41:48] <mime> Any jews or others are welcome to try to refute science, but thats really redundant.
  597. [21:41:52] <Cyberclaus> too few groups to bash
  598. [21:41:58] <mime> Stop accusing people of what you project, Cyberclaus.
  599. [21:42:01] <ZShurp> "they just think they do", heh, no contradiction there :)
  600. [21:42:04] <JohnGuru> ZShurp, okay. I was going to try to make a joke but
  601. [21:42:21] <Cyberclaus> inflammitory mime
  602. [21:42:32] <Cyberclaus> you have merely selected a common topic
  603. [21:42:46] <JohnGuru> ZShurp, I know, it seems paradoxical, self-refuting, but that's only becasue the language is ordi8nary and not technical
  604. [21:42:52] <mime> You arent even addressing what I say, Cyberclaus, but accuse others of your feelings.
  605. [21:43:09] <Cyberclaus> read your own logs blather
  606. [21:43:11] <Cyberclaus> it's blather
  607. [21:43:18] <JohnGuru> his point is more along the lines that there is no such thing as consciousness, but the signs that brains make, in electronic form, signify consciousness but it's not ACTUAL
  608. [21:43:25] <JohnGuru> it just represents consciousness.
  609. [21:43:33] <mime> Next time, try to be an adult and read what is said, Cyberclaus. Stop projecting your BS into what others say and dont say.
  610. [21:43:44] <JohnGuru> sort of like whenever you have a representation of something that doesn't exist
  611. [21:43:45] <zenmonkey> consciousness is a word that denotes a phenomena
  612. [21:43:53] <Cyberclaus> you are citing old noise mime
  613. [21:44:00] <Cyberclaus> why bother to cite it at all?
  614. [21:44:01] <JohnGuru> zen, yes, but you're being reasonable.
  615. [21:44:04] <heythere> like unicorns?
  616. [21:44:07] <Sol> 8 million years is short for some sort of biochemical evolutoin probably.
  617. [21:44:07] <ZShurp> A representation of consciosuness without consciousness? OK, that makes my head hurt
  618. [21:44:09] <JohnGuru> yes, like unicorns
  619. [21:44:10] <mime> You have a lot of ad hominems, Cyberclaus. They are becoming boring and predictable.
  620. [21:44:12] <ZShurp> I'd rather talk about Zionists
  621. [21:44:17] <zenmonkey> to say that human brains are not conscious, you are really implying some primitive understanding of consciousness is wrong. it's what consciousness *is*
  622. [21:44:26] <JohnGuru> or money. The paper, the coins, etc. are all representations of money but the money ITSELF does not exist.
  623. [21:44:34] <Cyberclaus> I try to be objective
  624. [21:44:40] <Cyberclaus> but a stream of blather is just that
  625. [21:44:42] <Cyberclaus> blather
  626. [21:44:47] <JohnGuru> if I were objective, I'd be dead
  627. [21:44:51] <Cyberclaus> haaa
  628. [21:44:58] <Cyberclaus> you might be a lens :)
  629. [21:45:05] <mime> I understand that you project something into what is said, Cyberclaus. That is very evident. But you dont prove that what I have said is inaccurate.
  630. [21:45:05] <Cyberclaus> wordplay
  631. [21:45:07] <Cyberclaus> yay
  632. [21:45:09] <JohnGuru> zenmonkey, yes. Well, it's complicated isn't it
  633. [21:45:18] <zenmonkey> not to me
  634. [21:45:18] <Cyberclaus> mime yer a weasel
  635. [21:45:26] <Cyberclaus> and an amateur weasel at that
  636. [21:45:27] <JohnGuru> you really only have two choices, mysticism or objectivity
  637. [21:45:29] <mime> Are you done with the personal attacks soon?
  638. [21:45:47] <heythere> well some say money is like a language, but for expressing the change of ownership of value only
  639. [21:45:51] <zenmonkey> I don't have to know the inner workings of consciousness to know that the word "consciousness" denotes a phenomena
  640. [21:45:56] <Cyberclaus> I attack your topic choice
  641. [21:45:57] <JohnGuru> mime, if you just avoid stigmatizing the jews, you probably won't have a problem
  642. [21:45:59] <Cyberclaus> pick another one
  643. [21:46:03] <Cyberclaus> all will be lovely
  644. [21:46:05] <Cyberclaus> maybe
  645. [21:46:14] <JohnGuru> :)
  646. [21:46:19] <mime> The sooner you finish that childish stuff, you could rather focus on what is said and try to understand it, and then for example try to refute it if you think its inaccurate.
  647. [21:46:34] <mime> No one is stigmatizing the jews, JohnGuru.
  648. [21:46:38] <mime> Stop that BS.
  649. [21:46:39] <ZShurp> zenmonkey, maybe, maybe not -- it depends on what sort of ontology you're using. Perhaps the world is a strange sort of thing such that subjectivity can never itself be a phenomenon
  650. [21:46:41] <JohnGuru> heythere, oh yes, money is very much like language. Both are symbolic, where the entities represented are imaginary
  651. [21:46:48] <Cyberclaus> what you call history is no excuse to rant forever on it
  652. [21:47:10] <mime> No one has ranted and certainly not "forever", but this assbleed of yours seems to be a constant.
  653. [21:47:16] JohnValuk sets mode +b mime!*@*
  654. [21:47:24] <Cyberclaus> now you can listen and not pollute
  655. [21:47:41] <Cyberclaus> happy now?
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