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  1.  
  2.  
  3. what was going on between the Normans and the papacy?
  4.  
  5.  
  6. https://www.realmofhistory.com/2015/09/12/8-surprising-facts-about-the-normans-and-their-warfare/
  7.     Afflicted by such military actions, Charles III (also called ‘the Simple’) – the King of West Franks, invited Rollo and his followers to settle on the eastern side of Normandy (Upper Normandy) in 911 AD, in return for nominal allegiance and possibly Rollo’s conversion to Christianity.
  8.  
  9.     ...As history has proven, the Treaty of Saint-Clair-sur-Epte was a masterstroke by Charles III – if not for himself, but for future generations of French rulers and church officials after 10th century AD. To that end, the early Normans clearly demonstrated their Viking military heritage by operating in a similar manner – that entailed fast movements and decisive actions, all pinched with the element of sheer ruthlessness. But the Gens Normannorum showcased another evolving nature that was seldom found in their Northmen predecessors – the nature of adaptability. This societal force soon allowed them to wholesomely adopt the ‘foreign’ Carolingian culture and feudalism, thus transforming the Normans into an European entity that combined the viciousness of the Vikings and the acumen of more ‘advanced’ factions.
  10.  
  11.     One major effect of this scope of adaptability was the large scale adoption of Christianity by the primarily pagan Normans (under Rollo). Their future generations turned out to be the ‘sword arm’ of Christianity, with Norman conquests and influence reaching the far-flung corners of Europe and even Levant. Interestingly, the Normans also established a long-standing yet transparent relationship with the Papacy, as is evident from William the Conqueror’s alliance with the Vatican. In that regard, many of the ecclesiastical leaders of the church came from the Norman aristocracy, while secular Norman lords quite freely founded medieval monasteries in their realms. Many of these ‘church lands’ owed military service to their Norman overlords, and as such the first knights were probably related to such resource-rich abbeys.
  12.  
  13.     ...Yet another feather in the cap of the Normans was the conquest of a land even further than Sicily. We are taking about the ‘Holy Land’ in Levant, and how the Normans played an active role in the First Crusade by establishing their state around the ancient city of Antioch (that encompassed parts of modern-day Turkey and Syria). Keeping up with their reputation as the ‘sword arm’ of Christianity, the so-called Principality of Antioch was initially formed by the Normans (mostly from Italy) as a buffer state that would guard the Kingdom of Jerusalem from the northern passages.
  14.  
  15.  
  16. converted to Roman Catholicism under Rollo, became "sword-arm of Chrsitianity"
  17.  
  18.  
  19. ------
  20.  
  21.  
  22. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo
  23.  
  24. rollo was vikin leader whose descendants and descendants of followers became known as the normans
  25.  
  26.  
  27.     ...The name Rollo is generally presumed to be a latinisation of the Old Norse name Hrólfr – a theory that is supported by the rendition of Hrólfr as Roluo in the Gesta Danorum. It is also sometimes suggested that Rollo may be a Latinised version of another Norse name, Hrollaugr.[5]
  28.  
  29.     Rollo is generally identified with one Viking in particular – a man of high social status mentioned in Icelandic sagas, which refer to him by the Old Norse name Göngu-Hrólfr, meaning "Hrólfr the Walker". (Göngu-Hrólfr is also widely known by an Old Danish variant, Ganger-Hrolf.) The byname "Walker" is usually understood to suggest that Rollo was so physically imposing that he could not be carried by a horse and was obliged to travel on foot. Norman and other French sources do not use the name Hrólfr, and the identification of Rollo with Göngu-Hrólfr is based upon similarities between circumstances and actions ascribed to both figures.[citation needed]
  30.  
  31.     The 10th-century Norman historian Dudo records that Rollo took the baptismal name Robert.[6] A variant spelling, Roul, is used in the 12th-century Norman French Roman de la Rou, which was compiled by Wace and commissioned by King Henry II of England (a descendant of Rollo).[citation needed]
  32.  
  33.  
  34. historians theorize that Rollo had another name Hrolfr, based in similarities in description of him in Icelandic sagas and other records of Rollo
  35.  
  36.  
  37.     ...Rollo was born in the latter half of the 9th century; his place of birth is unknown.
  38.  
  39.     The earliest well-attested historical event associated with Rollo is his leadership of Vikings who besieged Paris in 885–886.[7]
  40.  
  41.     Perhaps the earliest known source to mention Rollo's early life is the French chronicler Richer of Reims, who claims (in the 10th century) that Rollo was the son of a Viking named Ketill.[8] In terms of onomastics, it is interesting that Richer also names – without explicitly linking him to Rollo – a man named Ketill as being the leader of subsequent Viking raids (in 888), against areas on the coast of West Francia, between the Seine and the Loire.
  42.  
  43.     Medieval sources contradict each other regarding whether Rollo's family was Norwegian or Danish in origin. In part, this disparity may result from the indifferent and interchangeable usage in Europe, at the time, of terms such as "Vikings", "Northmen", "Danes", "Norwegians" and so on (in the Medieval Latin texts Dani vel Nortmanni means "Danes or Northmen").
  44.  
  45.  
  46. Rollo lead viking raiders who besiged Paris in 885, Ketill named as his father also lead subsequent viking raids of France
  47.  
  48. medieval sources contradict each other on whether Rollo was Danish or Norweigan
  49.  
  50.  
  51.     A biography of Rollo, written by the cleric Dudo of Saint-Quentin in the late 10th Century, claimed that Rollo was from Denmark. One of Rollo's great-grandsons and a contemporary of Dudo was known as Robert the Dane. However, Dudo's Historia Normannorum (or Libri III de moribus et actis primorum Normanniae ducum) was commissioned by Rollo's grandson, Richard I of Normandy and – while Dudo likely had access to family members and/or other people with a living memory of Rollo – this fact must be weighed against the text's potential biases, as an official biography. According to Dudo, an unnamed king of Denmark was antagonistic to Rollo's family, including his father – an unnamed Danish nobleman – and Rollo's brother Gurim. Following the death of Rollo and Gurim's father, Gurim was killed and Rollo was forced to leave Denmark.[9] Dudo appears to have been the main source for William of Jumièges (after 1066) and Orderic Vitalis (early 12th century), although both include additional details.[10]
  52.  
  53.  
  54. chronicler Dudo of Saint-Quentin says Rollo was from Denmark, but wikipedia warns that Dudo might be biased (is where Rollo was from important?). Dudo says an unamed king of Denmark didn't like Rollo's family. Dudo says Rollo's brother and father were killed and Rollo was forced to leave Denmark.
  55.  
  56.  
  57.     A Norwegian background for Rollo was first explicitly claimed by Goffredo Malaterra (Geoffrey Malaterra), an 11th-century Benedictine monk and historian, who wrote: "Rollo sailed boldly from Norway with his fleet to the Christian coast."[11] Likewise, the 12th-century English historian William of Malmesbury stated that Rollo was "born of noble lineage among the Norwegians".[12]
  58.  
  59.  
  60. Gofreedo Malterra and William of Malmesbury said Rollo was from Norway
  61.  
  62.  
  63.     A chronicler named Benoît (probably Benoît de Sainte-More) wrote in the mid-12th Century Chronique des ducs de Normandie that Rollo had been born in a town named "Fasge". This has since been variously interpreted as referring to Faxe, in Sjælland (Denmark), Fauske, in Hålogaland (Norway), or perhaps a more obscure settlement that has since been abandoned or renamed. Benoît also repeated the claim that Rollo had been persecuted by a local ruler and had fled from there to "Scanza island", by which Benoît probably means Scania (Swedish Skåne). While Faxe was physically much closer to Scania, the mountainous scenery of "Fasge", described by Benoît, would seem to be more like Fauske.
  64.  
  65.  
  66. Benoit wrote that Rollo was born in "Fasge", was persecuted by a local ruler and fled to "Scanza island." Wikipedia says birthplace has been interpreted as either Faxe in Denmark or Fauske in Norway. Denmark was closer to Scania but Benoits description of mountounous "Fasge" seems more like the town in Norway (why has there been disagreement about this? hundreds of years ago and now)
  67.  
  68.  
  69. anonymous welsh source in 12 century says Rollo was brother of King Finehair of Norway
  70.  
  71. Iclandic sagas first explicitly identified Rollo with Hrolf in 13th century, and claim he was born in More, western Norway to jarl Eysteinsson
  72.  
  73. some Irish and Icelandic sources say rollo was related to Ketill Flatnose and that Rollo lived or visited Scotland at one point
  74.  
  75.  
  76.     ...Dudo tells us that Rollo seized Rouen in 876. He is supported by the contemporary chronicler Flodoard, who records that Robert of the Breton March waged a campaign against the Vikings, who nearly levelled Rouen and other settlements; eventually, he conceded "certain coastal provinces" to them.[19]
  77.  
  78.     According to Dudo, Rollo struck up a friendship in England with a king that Dudo calls Alstem. This has puzzled many historians, but recently the puzzle has been resolved by recognition that this refers to Guthrum, the Danish leader whom Alfred the Great baptised with the baptismal name Athelstan, and then recognised as king of the East Angles in 880.[20]
  79.  
  80.  
  81. Dudo says Rollo attacked Rouen, and Flodard backs him up saying there was a viking battle there. Dudo wrote that Rollo befriended an English King named Alstem, which "puzzled many historians," but eventually they decided this must have been Athelstan the Danish leader who was baptised.
  82.  
  83. A theme in wikipedia is that a lot about Rollo is not known for sure and historians debate about it
  84.  
  85.    
  86.     Dudo records that when Rollo took Bayeux by force, he carried off with him the beautiful Popa or Poppa, a daughter of Berenger, Count of Rennes, took her in marriage and with her had their son and Rollo's heir, William Longsword.[21]
  87.  
  88.  
  89. wikipedia says Dudo wrote that when Rollo took Bayeaux by force, he "carried off" the daughter of a Count and married her
  90.  
  91. did he "carry off" his wife or was he intermarying with European nobility? Dudo says he was friends with an English King, and Rollo made that deal with Charles the Simple later. So far get impression that Rollo tended to make friends and deals with European nobility despite his raids.
  92.  
  93.  
  94. ...
  95.  
  96.  
  97.  
  98. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Longsword
  99.     William Longsword was born "overseas"[a][6] to the Viking Rollo (while he was still a pagan) and his Christian wife Poppa of Bayeux.[7][8] Dudo of Saint-Quentin in his panegyric of the Norman dukes describes Poppa as the daughter of a Count Beranger, the dominant prince of that region.[9] In the 11th century Annales Rouennaises (Annals of Rouen), she is called the daughter of Guy, Count of Senlis,[10] otherwise unknown to history.[b] Despite the uncertainty of her parentage she was undoubtedly a member of the Frankish aristocracy.[11] According to the Longsword's planctus, he was baptized a Christian probably at the same time as his father,[12] which Orderic Vitalis stated was in 912, by Franco, Archbishop of Rouen.[13]
  100.  
  101.  
  102. Rollo's wife Poppa was Christian--maybe that influenced him to convert?
  103.  
  104.  
  105. https://www.history.com/news/what-was-life-like-for-women-in-the-viking-age
  106.     There’s been a lot of talk in recent years about the role that women played in the Viking Age. Were they warriors, wielding shields and swords alongside the men? Did they go along on the famous Viking voyages, sailing to places as far flung as Europe, Russia and North America? While in some cases it’s hard to separate myth from reality, it’s clear that Scandinavian women in Viking Age society enjoyed more freedom and power in their communities than many other women of their day. Recent research even suggests that many more Norse women than previously believed traveled alongside the men on those Viking long boats, suggesting women also played an active role in Viking colonization.
  107.  
  108.     ...While earlier historical research about the Vikings had theorized that the seafaring Norsemen traveled in male-only groups—perhaps due to a lack of desirable mates in Scandinavia—a more recent study tells a very different story. In the newer study, published in late 2014, researchers used mitochondrial DNA evidence to show that Norse women joined their men for Viking Age migrations to England, the Shetland and Orkney Islands and Iceland, and were “important agents in the processes of migration and assimilation.” Especially in previously uninhabited areas such as Iceland, Norse women were vital to populating the new settlements and helping them thrive.
  109.  
  110.  
  111. vikings would travel with Norse women on voyages and would populate settlements with Norse people
  112.  
  113. did Vikings tend to marry foreigners? or not want to do that? In Norman conquest it was said that they Normans only sent men and so intermarried with anglo-saxons there
  114.  
  115.  
  116.     ...But women in Viking Age Scandinavia did enjoy an unusual degree of freedom for their day. They could own property, request a divorce and reclaim their dowries if their marriages ended. Women tended to marry between the ages of 12 and 15, and families negotiated to arrange those marriages, but the woman usually had a say in the arrangement. If a woman wanted a divorce, she had to call witnesses to her home and marriage bed, and declare in front of them that she had divorced her husband. The marriage contract usually stated how family property would be divided up in case of a divorce.
  117.  
  118.     Though the man was the “ruler” of the house, the woman played an active role in managing her husband, as well as the household. Norse women had full authority in the domestic sphere, especially when their husbands were absent. If the man of the household died, his wife would adopt his role on a permanent basis, singlehandedly running the family farm or trading business. Many women in Viking Age Scandinavia were buried with rings of keys, which symbolized their roles and power as household managers.
  119.  
  120.     Some women rose to a particularly high status. One of the grandest burials ever found in Scandinavia from that period belonged to the Oseberg “queen,” a woman who was buried in a sumptuously decorated ship along with many valuable grave goods in A.D. 834. Later in the ninth century, Aud the Deep-Minded, the daughter of a Norwegian chieftain in the Hebrides (islands off northern Scotland) married a Viking king based in Dublin. When her husband and son died, Aud uprooted her household and organized a ship voyage for herself and her grandchildren to Iceland, where she became one of the colony’s most important settlers.
  121.  
  122.  
  123. women treated better by vikings than in European continent, would get involved in managing and owning land and politics
  124.  
  125.  
  126.     ...Were there female warriors in Viking Age society? Though relatively few historical records mention the role of women in Viking warfare, the Byzantine-era historian Johannes Skylitzes did record women fighting with the Varangian Vikings in a battle against the Bulgarians in A.D. 971. In addition, the 12th-century Danish historian Saxo Grammaticus wrote that communities of “shieldmaidens” dressed like men and devoted themselves to learning swordplay and other warlike skills, and that some 300 of these shieldmaidens held the field in the Battle of Brávellir in the mid-eighth century. In his famous work Gesta Danorum, Saxo wrote of a shieldmaiden named Lagertha, who fought alongside the famous Viking Ragnar Lothbrok in a battle against the Swedes, and so impressed Ragnar with her courage that he sought and won her hand in marriage.
  127.  
  128.     Most of what we know about women warriors in the Viking Age comes from literary works, including the romantic sagas Saxo called upon as some of his sources. Female warriors known as “Valkyries,” who may have been based on shieldmaidens, are certainly an important part of Old Norse literature. Given the prevalence of these legends, along with the greater rights, status and power they enjoyed, it certainly seems likely that women in Viking society did occasionally take up arms and fight, especially when someone threatened them, their families or their property.
  129.  
  130.  
  131. viking shieldmaidens did battle and held field in Bravellir and this impressed viking man Ragnar and was his reason to marry Lagertha
  132.  
  133. viking legend of Valkyries were female warriors who might have been based on shieldmaidens
  134.  
  135.  
  136. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/04/vikings-may-have-first-taken-seas-find-women-slaves
  137.     The sudden and dramatic breakout by the Vikings has long puzzled scholars. The Lindisfarne raid inaugurated 3 centuries of expansion that led to settlement of Iceland, Greenland, and, briefly, Newfoundland in Canada. To the east, Vikings dominated the rivers of today’s western Russia and Ukraine, sent diplomats to Constantinople, and traded as far afield as Baghdad and North Africa.
  138.  
  139.     But although previous scholars identified the raids as the start of the Viking era, Price stresses that their way of life began long before. In the Vendel period from about 
550 C.E. to 790 C.E., Scandinavians exported iron and furs and developed impressive seafaring skills. And between 2008 and 2012, researchers discovered two ship burials on the edge of the Baltic Sea in Estonia, 250 kilo
meters from the Swedish coast. The burials are “the most significant Viking discovery of the last hundred years,” Price says—and they apparently predate the Lindisfarne raid by nearly a century, according to dating by radio
carbon and artifact styles.
  140.  
  141.  
  142. sudden dramatic breakout of vikings has "long puzzled scholars"
  143.  
  144.  
  145.     ...Historical sources make it clear that the “Vikings were taking, transporting, and selling slaves,” Raffield said in his talk. He estimates that slaves comprised as much as 25% of Scandinavia’s population. Norse sagas mention slaves—“thralls” in Old Norse—who were often given pejorative names like Stinky, Stumpy, and Stupid. But compelling archaeological evidence has been elusive. Iron manacles and collars hint at slavery, but might have been used for prisoners or dogs. Raffield plans to search for evidence of special vessels designed to carry captives.
  146.  
  147.     Other archaeologists have found tantalizing hints of slavery in existing remains. About one in 25 male Viking burials in Sweden and Norway includes teeth incised with deep grooves. The marks were long thought to indicate a warrior class, but at least some of these men were decapitated and placed in a burial with another man, said Anna 
Kjellström of Stockholm University, who is also part of the project. “You can make a strong argument that these were special slaves who were ritually killed” upon the death of their master, she said in her talk. “The slaves may have been in front of us all the time.” The team plans extensive isotopic analysis to discover whether the victims were local or recent, perhaps involuntary, arrivals.
  148.  
  149.  
  150.     ...The team also will tackle the disturbing issue of sexual slavery. There are hints of polygyny in Germanic cultures from this time, though researchers aren’t sure of its extent in Viking society or in the Vendel era. But if it were prevalent, Price speculates, poorer men would have been eager to seek  wives outside Scandinavia. Researchers hope to understand more by pulling together DNA and other data to determine relations and origins among Viking dead.
  151.  
  152.     The argument that Vikings set out to capture women gets tantalizing support from recent genetic studies of living people in Iceland, which has not experienced a significant migration since the Vikings settled it more than a thousand years ago. About three-
quarters of male Icelandic settlers hailed from what is today Norway, although well over half of the women were from the British Isles, according to genetic studies of today’s Icelanders. That suggests that Viking men partnered with British women on a massive scale. “We must be talking about some degree of coercion,” Price said. His team will emphasize examining the remains of Viking women—long understudied—to understand their origins.
  153.  
  154.     Price adds that much more work is required to understand the emergence of the Vikings’ raiding society. “This is just the start of a decade of research,” he says.
  155.  
  156.  
  157. archeologists are also looking at evidence for vikings going out to capture slaves and women for sexual slavery
  158.  
  159.  
  160. https://www.livescience.com/49038-viking-women-colonized-islands.html
  161.     The findings suggest that both Viking men and women sailed on the ships to colonize new lands. The new study also challenges the popular conception of Vikings as glorified hoodlums with impressive seafaring skills. [Fierce Fighters: 7 Secrets of Viking Men]
  162.  
  163.      The findings suggest that both Viking men and women sailed on the ships to colonize new lands. The new study also challenges the popular conception of Vikings as glorified hoodlums with impressive seafaring skills. [Fierce Fighters: 7 Secrets of Viking Men]
  164.  
  165.      ... Vikings hold a special place in folklore as manly warriors who terrorized the coasts of France, England and Germany for three centuries. But the Vikings were much more than pirates and pillagers. They established far-flung trade routes, reached the shores of present-day America, settled in new lands and even founded the modern city of Dublin, which was called Dyfflin by the Vikings.
  166.  
  167.     Some earlier genetic studies have suggested that Viking males traveled alone and then brought local women along when they settled in a new location. For instance, a 2001 study published in the American Journal of Human Genetics suggested that Norse men brought Gaelic women over when they colonized Iceland.
  168.  
  169.     Modern roots
  170.  
  171.     To learn more about Norse colonization patterns, Hagelberg and her colleagues extracted teeth and shaved off small wedges of long bones from 45 Norse skeletons that were dated to between A.D. 796 and A.D. 1066. The skeletons were first unearthed in various locations around Norway and are now housed in the Schreiner Collection at the University of Oslo.
  172.  
  173.     The team looked at DNA carried in the mitochondria, the energy powerhouses of the cell. Because mitochondria are housed in the cytoplasm of a woman's egg, they are passed on from a woman to her children and can therefore reveal maternal lineage. The team compared that material with mitochondrial DNA from 5,191 people from across Europe, as well as with previously analyzed samples from 68 ancient Icelanders.
  174.  
  175.     The ancient Norse and Icelandic genetic material closely matched the maternal DNA in modern North Atlantic people, such as Swedes, Scots and the English. But the ancient Norse seemed most closely related to people from Orkney and Shetland Islands, Scottish isles that are quite close to Scandinavia.
  176.  
  177.     Mixed group
  178.  
  179.     "It looks like women were a more significant part of the colonization process compared to what was believed earlier," said Jan Bill, an archaeologist and the curator of the Viking burial ship collection at the Museum of Cultural History, a part of the University of Oslo.
  180.  
  181.     That lines up with historical documents, which suggest that Norse men, women and children — but also Scottish, British and Irish families — colonized far-flung islands such as Iceland, Bill told Live Science. Bill was not involved with the new study.
  182.  
  183.     "This picture that we have of Viking raiding — a band of long ships plundering — there obviously would not be families on that kind of ship," Bill said. "But when these raiding activities started to become a more permanent thing, then at some point you may actually see families are traveling along and staying in the camps."
  184.  
  185.  
  186. looks like another historical debate...
  187.  
  188. this study says comparing DNA found vikings travelled with families which lines up with some historical documents, counters narrative of vikings as crazed pillagers
  189.  
  190.  
  191. ...
  192.  
  193.  
  194. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo
  195.     There are few contemporary mentions of Rollo. The earliest record is from 918, in a charter of Charles III to an abbey, which referred to an earlier grant to "the Normans of the Seine", namely "Rollo and his associates" for "the protection of the kingdom." [22] Dudo retrospectively stated that this pact took place in 911 at Saint-Clair-sur-Epte. In return for formal recognition of the lands he possessed, Rollo agreed to be baptised and assist the king in the defence of the realm. Rollo took the baptismal name Robert. The seal of agreement was to be marriage between Rollo and Gisla, daughter of Charles. Dudo claims that Gisla was a legitimate daughter of Charles.[23] Since Charles first married in 907, that would mean that Gisla was at most 5 years old at the time of the treaty of 911 which offered her in marriage.[24] It has therefore been speculated that she could have been an illegitimate daughter.[25] However a diplomatic child betrothal need not be doubted.[26]
  196.  
  197.  
  198. a Charles III charter to an abbey referrs to a grant to "Rollo and his associates" for "the protection of the Kingdon"
  199.  
  200. Dudo said this pact was in 911, and Rollo agreed to be baptised and assist charles in defence in return for recognition of his lands in Normandy. Dudo says agrement was sealed with Rollo marriage to Charles daughter Gisla.
  201.  
  202.  
  203.     After pledging his fealty to Charles III as part of the Treaty of Saint-Clair-sur-Epte, Rollo divided the lands between the rivers Epte and Risle among his chieftains, and settled with a de facto capital in Rouen.[27]
  204.  
  205.     Charles was overthrown by a revolt in 923, and his successor, Robert I, was killed by the Vikings in 923. His successor, Ralph, conceded the Bessin and Maine to Rollo shortly afterwards, the chronicler Flodoard tells us.[28]
  206.  
  207.     Rollo died sometime between a final mention of him by Flodoard in 928, and 933, the year in which a third grant of land, usually identified as being the Cotentin and Avranchin areas, was made to his son and successor William.[29]
  208.  
  209.  
  210. Rollo divvied up his land then Charles was overthrown by a revolt and his successor killed by vikings in 923. His successor Ralph conceded Bessin and Maine to Rollo shortly afterward according to Flodard.
  211.  
  212. Rollo died before a third land grant was made to his son and successor William.
  213.  
  214. Why did the French keep giving the Vikings land?
  215.  
  216.  
  217.     ...Rollo's son and heir, William Longsword, and grandchild, Richard the Fearless, forged the Duchy of Normandy into West Francia's most cohesive and formidable principality.[30] The descendants of Rollo and his men assimilated with their maternal Frankish-Catholic culture and became known as the Normans, lending their name to the region of Normandy.
  218.  
  219.     Rollo is the great-great-great-grandfather of William the Conqueror, or William I of England. Through William, he is one of the ancestors of the present-day British royal family, as well as an ancestor of all current European monarchs and a great many claimants to abolished European thrones.
  220.  
  221.  
  222. descandants of Rollo and followers assimilated with Frankish-Catholic culture and became Normans
  223.  
  224. Rollo is great-great-great-grandfather of William the Conqueror
  225.  
  226.  
  227. Dudo and Wiliam of Jumiges write that Rollo had daughter Gerloc with Poppa
  228.  
  229. Irish and Icelandic sources say Rolly had daughter Cadlinar born in Scotland and married an Irish prince. Her daughter was abduted by Icelandic Viking Helgi Ottarsson and became mother of poet Einarr Helgason whose grandkid became protagonist of an Icelandic saga
  230.  
  231.  
  232.     ...A genetic investigation into the remains of Rollo's grandson, Richard the Fearless, and his great-grandson, Richard the Good, was announced in 2011 with the intention of discerning the origins of the historic Viking leader.[34] On 29 February 2016 Norwegian researchers opened Richard the Good's tomb and found his lower jaw with eight teeth in it.[35] Unfortunately, the skeletal remains in both graves turned out to significantly predate Rollo and therefore are not related to him.[36]
  233.  
  234.  
  235. there was a genetic investigation into the remains of Rollo's grandom Richard the Fearless and great-grandson Richard the Good announced in 2011
  236.  
  237. is this why questions about Rollo's origin and family are important? some researches have been using genetics to answer questions about the Vikings.
  238.  
  239.  
  240. ------
  241.  
  242. what did new genetic studies find?
  243.  
  244.  
  245. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98673&page=1
  246.     By studying the genetic roots of a population, the study's main author, David Goldstein, says we can reveal facts about human history that archaeology and written sources are unable to uncover. Such studies also have an epidemiological significance since they can help researchers isolate genes that influence common ailments such as heart disease.
  247.  
  248.     ... Goldstein found there was a strong Scandinavian genetic influence among the 71 islanders that were examined — evidence that there was plenty of Viking blood among the now far-from-fierce islanders.
  249.  
  250.     But when examining the Celtic credentials of Orkney's males against the Welsh and Irish control groups, the scientists stumbled across a remarkable similarity in the gene patterns passed down the male line. The similarities suggested that the populations on the so-called "Celtic fringe" of the British Isles shared Y chromosome characteristics that pre-dated the fifth century Saxon invasion of the islands.
  251.  
  252.     ... In contrast to the stubborn Celtic Y chromosome, Goldstein found there is genetic similarity between the British Isles and the rest of Northern Europe in the X chromosome, or in other words — women. Women enhanced the genetic diversity of the Isles, starting approximately 8,000 years ago. Goldstein explains this may be due to the fact that men controlled the ownership of land and brought women to live with them and sometimes even traded women as commodities.
  253.  
  254.     The isolated Orkney Islands were a convenient starting point, Goldstein said, since there were only two discernible genetic influences upon the population — Celtic and Viking. Tracking the genetic make-up of the rest of the British Isles — a project that is expected to be completed in the next six to eight months — will prove a far more daunting task as Roman, Norman, Saxon and Norse influences will all have to be disentangled.
  255.  
  256.  
  257. says they hope to find things that archaeology and written sources can't uncover
  258.  
  259. found that vikings settled British isles before Saxon invasion
  260.  
  261. remember reading that vikings went everywhere, even settled North America before columbus, and I guess were able to figure this out with DNA
  262.  
  263. what's up with vikings and why did the settle everywhere? (and why is this important?)
  264.  
  265.  
  266. http://www.newsweek.com/irish-viking-dna-792789
  267.  
  268. this says basically vikings were in Ireland and made up significant chunk of the population
  269.  
  270. Rollo wikipedia article says some Irish sources wrote on Rollo, so maybe brought history and culture too?
  271.  
  272.  
  273. on studies of Rollo:
  274.  
  275.  
  276. http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/01/22/mystery-of-viking-ruler-rollo-continues-surprising-discovery-in-ancient-grave/
  277.     Mystery Of Viking Ruler Rollo Continues – Surprising Discovery In Ancient Grave
  278.  
  279.     AncientPages.com - The mystery of Viking ruler Rollo continues. An ancient sarcophagus Fécamp, Normandy, France has been opened, analysis has been conducted, but the results are startling and not what anyone expected.
  280.  
  281.     While trying to solved an ancient mystery, a new one has suddenly emerged.
  282.  
  283.     There are many famous Vikings whose identity is unknown and one of them is Viking Rollo who was the founder and first ruler of Normandy, the Count of Rouen and the great-great-great grandfather of William the Conqueror, the first Norman King of England. The identity of Viking ruler Rollo is of great historical significance. For years, there has been debated whether Viking Rollo was from Denmark or Norway. The answer is important to the British royal family, because their family descended from Rollo.
  284.  
  285.  
  286. says the research will answer the debate on where Rollo was from
  287.  
  288. this says "the answer is important to the British royal family"
  289.  
  290.    
  291.     As MessageToEagle.com previously reported, last year, scientists opened a sarcophagus that might shed new light on Viking Rollo’s identity.
  292.  
  293.     In January 2016, French officials granted a Norwegian application to open the tomb of Rollo’s grandson and great-grandson, Richard I of Normandy (also known as Richard the Fearless) and Richard II, also called Richard the Good.
  294.  
  295.  
  296.     ...While Norwegian-Icelandic history holds that Rollo is the same man also known as Ganger Hrólf and hails from Norway, some Danish historians claim that Rollo is from Denmark.
  297.  
  298.  
  299.     ...The results are disappointing, not only for the Danes, but also for the Norwegians. The two skeletons in the sarcophagus are in no way related to Viking Rollo. They are much older!
  300.  
  301.     “These skeletons have nothing to do with Rollo. The skeletons in the sarcophagus are in fact much older, one from 250-300 years before our era and the other from around the year 700, that is, before the Viking era, “ says historian and project initiator Sturla Ellingvåg from Foundation explico.
  302.  
  303.     The condition of the skeletons were unfortunately very poor, and researchers were unable to obtain DNA.
  304.  
  305.     What is really interesting is that the elder skeleton is actually from 3rd Century BC!
  306.  
  307.     “This has caused quite a stir, and since the elder is from 1-2 centuries before the Roman conquest of the area, we are speculating if this could be the relic of a early Celtic chieftain. At the moment, we have sent in a tooth for Strontium Isotop analysis, and we expect to know more about this issue soon,” Ellingvåg says.
  308.  
  309.  
  310. turns out the body wasn't Richard the Fearless?
  311.  
  312.  
  313.     ...Why these people were places in Duke coffins is unknown because there are no proper historical writings that could shed light on the mystery.
  314.  
  315.     Is There Another Way To Determine Viking Rollo’s Identity?
  316.  
  317.     The hope is still not gone and it might be possible to learn more about Viking Rollo’s identity. One way is to examine the DNA of people living in the area, but it’s difficult to conclude anything from these tests, Ellingvåg points out.
  318.  
  319.     British and French scientists tried it in 2016.
  320.  
  321.     The results of Viking DNA project show that 89 men in Normandy have  surnames that could indicate that they are of Nordic origin. However, the results showed no direct genetic line of these men to Scandinavia.
  322.  
  323.     Researchers are now hoping they can get permission to open another grave in Normandy and conduct a DNA test, but for the moment they are unwilling to reveal which one.
  324.  
  325.     The mystery of Viking Rollo remains unsolved. Danes and Norwegians have argued about Viking Rollo’s identity for over 100 years and they must wait a little longer before this historical mystery will be solved.
  326.  
  327.  
  328. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/hunt-for-viking-dna-in-normandy-riles-anti-racism-campaigners-who-fear-the-results-could-contribute-10327258.html
  329.     Hunt for Viking DNA in Normandy riles anti-racism campaigners who fear the results could contribute to increasing xenophobia in France
  330.  
  331.     It’s been more than 1,200 years since the Scandinavian longships first invaded Western Europe – but France remains scared of Vikings.
  332.  
  333.     A study of the DNA of a handful of rural Normans by a British academic team searching for Viking “roots” has been condemned by anti-racist campaigners and some French academics.
  334.  
  335.     ...“We fear that this will encourage the idea that there are true Normans and false Normans,” said Jacques Declosmenil, president of the Mouvement Contre le Racisme (movement against racism) in Manche, lower Normandy.
  336.  
  337.     “When you see pictures in local papers of Viking warriors wielding their weapons under the headline ‘Have you got Viking blood?’, you can’t help being worried.”
  338.  
  339.     ...“The objective is to explore the intensity of the Scandinavian colonisation of Cotentin in the 9th and 10th centuries,” said Richard Jones, head of the Leicester University team in France. “We also want to know whether the invaders stuck to themselves or intermarried with the local people.”
  340.  
  341.     ...Mr Declosmenil of the movement against racism said that he was worried that, however innocent the intentions of the research team, their findings could be hijacked by racist groups.
  342.  
  343.     “In the present context of increasing xenophobia, this is extremely dangerous,” he said. “Certain racists could say, for instance, I have proof that I have no Arab blood.”
  344.  
  345.     The study was also criticised as a possible infringement of French laws that forbid any form of racial classification. The keeping of any form of ethnic statistics is illegal in France on the grounds that, under the constitution of the Republic, French people are “indivisible”.
  346.  
  347.     “I warned my British colleagues that these questions were extremely sensitive in France,” said Pierre Bauduin, professor of medieval history at the University of Caen. “This is not the kind of thing that we do. You have to be very careful that such research is not exploited for political ends.”
  348.  
  349.  
  350. research was attacked and became controversial in France
  351.  
  352.  
  353. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https://saint-lo.maville.com/actu/actudet_-Jacques-Declosmenil-candidat-pour-le-MRC-_-466967_actu.Htm&prev=search
  354.  
  355.  
  356. Declosmenil is a French politician
  357.  
  358.  
  359. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://mrc53.over-blog.com/article-saint-lo-manche-itineraire-de-jacques-declosmenil-militant-sincere-98108634.html&prev=search
  360.  
  361. says he's a Communist and an activist
  362.  
  363.  
  364. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https://gollnisch.com/mot-cle/jacques-declosmenil/&prev=search
  365.     The system cracks on all sides and its representatives appear every day more worried and overwhelmed by events, caught in the trap of their multicultural and globalist doxa. In recent days, Le Monde reported the fears of the small kapos of the anti-racist lobby before the study that will be launched by British scientists from the University of Leicester [...]
  366.  
  367.  
  368. a French article apparently writing derogatoratively on Declosmenil's campaign against the viking research and being part of "multicultural and globalist doxa"
  369.  
  370. on the website of "Bruno Gollnisch," a member of far-right National Front party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Gollnisch) Worked with Le Pen there, ran agaist her, considered even more extreme than Le Pen. Gollnisch has a history of bringing forth scandals among French public.
  371.  
  372.  
  373. so far seems like viking research of interest to propagandists
  374.  
  375.  
  376. https://www.quora.com/Why-were-the-Nazis-so-obsessed-with-Norse-mythology
  377.  
  378. https://jasondarensburg.wordpress.com/2015/07/10/norse-mythology-and-the-nazis/
  379.  
  380. apparently Himmler and Nazi occultists were obsessed with them too
  381.  
  382. author of second article a little sketchy
  383.  
  384.  
  385. controversy on viking genetic research reached other circles:
  386.  
  387. http://sciencenordic.com/archaeologists-and-historians-clash-geneticists-over-viking-study
  388.     Archaeologists and historians clash with geneticists over Viking study
  389.  
  390.     Geneticists and biologists are increasingly involved in historical research. But as the new boys on the block, collaborations do not always run smoothly.
  391.  
  392.     A large DNA study has received criticism from archaeologists who think that geneticists have gotten the wrong end of the stick and misunderstood the Viking occupation of England.
  393.  
  394.     The story is just the latest in a series of examples demonstrating how archaeologists, historians, and geneticists are far from in agreement on how the past should be interpreted and described.
  395.  
  396.     “The debate on the Vikings in England sets a trend that is often debated among archaeologists—that geneticists don’t have all the necessary knowledge of the historical sources,” says Søren Sindbæk, archaeologist and professor with special responsibilities in the School of Culture and Society from Aarhus University, Denmark.
  397.     A newcomer to writing history
  398.  
  399.     Archaeologists and historians have traditionally documented our history, but in recent decades, DNA has entered the field as an entirely new form of historical evidence.
  400.  
  401.     ...“Archaeologists can feel threatened”
  402.  
  403.     The controversies between archaeologists, historians, and geneticists in-part stems from DNA scientists who do not always understand the historical context or overlook important historical details, says Professor Rasmus Nielsen from the Center for Theoretical Evolutionary Genomics at the University of California, Berkeley, USA.
  404.  
  405.     “But the debate is also a result of archaeologists who feel threatened by a new form of historical data that they don’t control,” says Nielsen.
  406.  
  407.     Professor and director of The Wellcome Trust Centre for Human Genetics at the University of Oxford, Peter Donnelly, points out that DNA research can provide new information and a different view of history.
  408.  
  409.     “Archaeology often tells us about the rich in society--jewellery and many other artefacts tell us about society's elite. There is a famous saying that history is written by the victors. But genetic material does not distinguish between rich and poor or winners and losers,” says Donnelly.
  410.  
  411.     “Therefore, DNA studies contribute new pages to our written history, but it’s obviously very important that we work together with archaeologists and historians,” says Donnelly, who co-authored a large DNA study to map historical migrations to the UK using modern DNA—one being the Danish Viking invasions from the 9th to the 11th century.
  412.  
  413.  
  414. big problem in history is that some chroniclers had an agenda, and the more evidence you get the better you can tease out what that was and compare to other data
  415.  
  416.  
  417.     ...Physics is already integrated
  418.  
  419.     Sindbæk points out that there’s a long history of other scientists hopping a board the archaeology train: physicists, chemists, and other natural scientists were involved long before geneticists and biologists came along, he says.
  420.  
  421.     For example, physicists had already begun to revolutionise archaeology in the 1950s with the use of radioactive carbon-14 to date archaeological remains.
  422.  
  423.     “[These years represent] the third revolution of natural sciences in archaeology. Biological methods proved particularly popular. [These] new methods [could] investigate at a molecular level, be that antiquities, or remains of animals or people,” says Sindbæk.
  424.  
  425.     “Things that previously were [considered] just dead material are suddenly an enormous source of knowledge about the past, and that has certainly helped archaeology. DNA research is just one aspect of this exciting archaeological revolution. We can suddenly get information about the past by studying living human genomes,” he says.
  426.  
  427.  
  428. remember reading some attacking carbon-dating as innacurate too, particularly from creationists (example: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating2.html)
  429.  
  430. like this article:
  431.  
  432. https://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/31/us/errors-are-feared-in-carbon-dating.html
  433.     Archives | 1990
  434.  
  435.     ERRORS ARE FEARED IN CARBON DATING
  436.  
  437.     By MALCOLM W. BROWNE
  438.  
  439.     Since 1947, scientists have reckoned the ages of many old objects by measuring the amounts of radioactive carbon they contain. New research shows, however, that some estimates based on carbon may have erred by thousands of years.
  440.  
  441.     It is too soon to know whether the discovery will seriously upset the estimated dates of events like the arrival of human beings in the Western Hemisphere, scientists said. But it is already clear that the carbon method of dating will have to be recalibrated and corrected in some cases.
  442.  
  443.     Scientists at the Lamont-Doherty Geological Laboratory of Columbia University at Palisades, N.Y., reported today in the British journal Nature that some estimates of age based on carbon analyses were wrong by as much as 3,500 years. They arrived at this conclusion by comparing age estimates obtained using two different methods - analysis of radioactive carbon in a sample and determination of the ratio of uranium to thorium in the sample. In some cases, the latter ratio appears to be a much more accurate gauge of age than the customary method of carbon dating, the scientists said.
  444.  
  445.     ...Dating Subject to Error
  446.  
  447.     But scientists have long recognized that carbon dating is subject to error because of a variety of factors, including contamination by outside sources of carbon. Therefore they have sought ways to calibrate and correct the carbon dating method. The best gauge they have found is dendrochronology: the measurement of age by tree rings.
  448.  
  449.     Accurate tree ring records of age are available for a period extending 9,000 years into the past. But the tree ring record goes no further, so scientists have sought other indicators of age against which carbon dates can be compared. One such indicator is the uranium-thorium dating method used by the Lamont-Doherty group.
  450.  
  451.     Uranium 234, a radioactive element present in the environment, slowly decays to form thorium 230. Using a mass spectrometer, an instrument that accelerates streams of atoms and uses magnets to sort them out according to mass and electric charge, the group has learned to measure the ratio of uranium to thorium very precisely.
  452.  
  453.     The Lamont-Doherty scientists conducted their analyses on samples of coral drilled from a reef off the island of Barbados. The samples represented animals that lived at various times during the last 30,000 years.
  454.  
  455.     Uranium-Thorium Dating
  456.  
  457.     Dr. Alan Zindler, a professor of geology at Columbia University who is a member of the Lamont-Doherty research group, said age estimates using the carbon dating and uranium-thorium dating differed only slightly for the period from 9,000 years ago to the present. ''But at earlier times, the carbon dates were substantially younger than the dates we estimated by uranium-thorium analysis,'' he said. ''The largest deviation, 3,500 years, was obtained for samples that are about 20,000 years old.''
  458.  
  459.     One reason the group believes the uranium-thorium estimates to be more accurate than carbon dating is that they produce better matches between known changes in the Earth's orbit and changes in global glaciation.
  460.  
  461.     According to carbon dating of fossil animals and plants, the spreading and receding of great ice sheets lagged behind orbital changes by several thousand years, a delay that scientists found hard to explain. But Dr. Richard G. Fairbanks, a member of the Lamont-Doherty group, said that if the dates of glaciation were determined using the uranium-thorium method, the delay - and the puzzle - disappeared.
  462.  
  463.     The group theorizes that large errors in carbon dating result from fluctuations in the amount of carbon 14 in the air. Changes in the Earth's magnetic field would change the deflection of cosmic-ray particles streaming toward the Earth from the Sun. Carbon 14 is thought to be mainly a product of bombardment of the atmosphere by cosmic rays, so cosmic ray intensity would affect the amount of carbon 14 in the environment at any given time. #30,000-Year Limit The Lamont-Doherty group says uranium-thorium dating not only is more precise than carbon dating in some cases, but also can be used to date much older objects. Carbon dating is unreliable for objects older than about 30,000 years, but uranium-thorium dating may be possible for objects up to half a million years old, Dr. Zindler said. The method is less suitable, however, for land animals and plants than for marine organisms, because uranium is plentiful in sea water but less so in most soils.
  464.  
  465.     But even if the method is limited to marine organisms, it will be extremely useful for deciphering the history of Earth's climate, ice, oceans and rocks, Dr. Fairbanks said.
  466.  
  467.  
  468. paper cited:
  469.  
  470. http://doc.rero.ch/record/210333/files/PAL_E4371.pdf
  471.     Calibration of the 14C timescale over the past 30,000 years using mass spectrometric U-Th ages from Barbados corals
  472.  
  473.     Edouard Bard, Bruno Hamelin, Richard G. Fairbanks & Alan Zindler
  474.  
  475.     Uranium-thorium ages obtained by mass spectrometry from corals raised off the sialnds of Barados confirm the high precision of this technique over at least the past 30,000 years. Comparison of the U-Th ages with 14C ages obtained on the Holocene samples shows that the U-Th ages are accurate, because they accord with the dendrochronological calibration. Before 9,000 yr BP the 14C ages are systematically younger than the U-Th ages, with a maximum differences of ~3,500 yr at ~20,000 yr BP. The U-Th technique thus provides a way of calibrating the radiocarbon timescale beyond the range of dendrochronological calibration.
  476.  
  477.     ...Recently 234U-239Th dating of corals by thermal ionization mass spectrometry (TIMS) has been demonstrated to be significantly more precise and accurate than the [alpha]-counting method. It has been predicted that U-Th dating would be even more precise than the 14C in the time range of the last deglaciation (6-20 kyr). We have implemented this technique at the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory and measured TH and 14C ages in the same coral samples to enable comparison of the two geochrometers. Here we focus on the U-TH/14C comparsison for the past 30,000 years.
  478.  
  479.     ...The most striking result is that the Th ages are consistently older than the 14C ages, with a maximum difference of ~3.5 kyr at ~20 Th kyr BP (Fib. 2). The difference between the two chronometers is equivalent to a [Delta]14C of ~400-500% above the present-day reference level for ages between 18 and 22 kyr BP.
  480.  
  481.  
  482. graph shows in agreement until 9,000 years ago then veers off linearly until off by 3,500 yr at 20,000 years ago
  483.  
  484.  
  485.     ...Before the Holocene, we cannot yet demonstrate that our U-Th ages are true 'calendar' ages, but we will argue that this is a reasonable assumption.
  486.  
  487.  
  488. Holocene beginning of current geological epoch about 11k years ago
  489.  
  490. in their data carbon dating disagreed with Th by a few hundred years at that point
  491.  
  492. goes on about looking at what could have caused the discrepency where their results imply 400-500% more C14 20,000 years ago. This was where the C14 and Uranium-Thorium results were off by 3,500 years
  493.  
  494. considered contamination of the samples, "diagenetic alteration or uranium exchange", uranium loss
  495.  
  496.  
  497.     ...A definitive test of the accuracy of the 14C ages used in this comparison will be to replicate all of the measurements by AMS.
  498.  
  499.     The good quality of the corals for U-Th was tested by X-ray diffraction which showed that no secondary calcite was detectable in the corals. This is important, but not sufficient, to rule out any diagenetic alteration or uranium exchange. The strongest argument for the quality of the samples comes from the U-Th measurements themselves: all the initial 234U/238U ratios fall in the range of the modern sea water (activity ration between 1.14 and 1.1.5, ref. 21) in contrast with older air-exposed samples
  500.  
  501.  
  502. says definite test will be to replicate measurements, spends rest of the paper on explanation of discrepancy with carbon cycle changes or changes in C14 production
  503.  
  504.  
  505.     ...Carbon cycle changes
  506.  
  507.     The 14C-age calculation relies on the assumption that the atmospheric 14C/C ratio has not changed with time and therefore can be used to normalize the measured ration in fossil carbon. Unfortunately, the atmosphere contains less than a ton of 14C and most of the radiocarbon is in the ocean (> 40 tons). Subtle changes in the reservoir sizes and/or rates of exchange between reservoirs could have significantly affected the 14C content of the atmosphere. CO2 measurements in old polar ice showed that the atmospheric concentration was lower during the last glacial than during the Holocene.
  508.  
  509.  
  510. Need to know ration of isotope 14C and C to calculate carbon date, not that much 14 c in the atmosphere, and found that it was lower during glacial period, and can be different for ocean and atmosphere
  511.  
  512.  
  513.     ...A model calculation similar to that of Oeschger et al. shows that the difference in 14C between the surface and the deep sea would have to be increased by ~3.5 kyr to account for a 400% higher atmospheric 14C/C. This age difference is not supported by the palaeoceanographic data on benthic-planktonic pairs of foraminifera dated by 14C AMS. These studies have shown that the ventilation age difference was higher in the Pacific by ~500+/-100 yr (refs 43, 44) and in the Atlantic by 200 +/- 200 yr (ref. 44). Assuming that the highest values measured in the Pacific are valid for the global ocean would lead to a maximal atmospheric 14C/C ratio increase of ~70%.
  514.  
  515.     In summary, changes in the carbon cycle can account for only ~100-150% increase in the [delta]14C of the atmopshere as compared to the 400-500% inferred from the Barbados data.
  516.  
  517.  
  518. says theres a problem that carbon-cycle data doesn't account for the 400-500% C14 difference
  519.  
  520.    
  521.     Changes in the 14C production
  522.  
  523.     The mean 14C/C ration of the exchangeable carbon on the Earth is maintained by a steady state between production by cosmic rays in the upper atmosphere and radiodecay. The 14C of the atmosphere can therefore undergo variations in response to changes in the flux of galactic protons, solar-wind magnetic properties or the dipole moment of the Earth.
  524.  
  525.     Little is known about possible variations of the cosmic rays on the timescale of interest. As discussed below, the main [Delta]14C variations during the Holocene can be explained by changes of the magnetic field and/or changes in the ocean circulation. Therefore it is not necessary to call for a modulatino of the galactic protons, and this flux can be assumed to be constant with time until data is produced to the contrary.
  526.  
  527.     Changes in the solar-wind modulation are also poorly known...
  528.  
  529.     ...We assumed no error on the 14C production algorithm and constant errors of 5 and 10% of the present-day magnetic field on the palaeomagnetic record. There is clear agreement between the [delta]14C data calculated from the U-TH/14C comparison and our calcuation based on the palaeomagnetic record. The [delta]14C values around 18-22 kyr BP are, however, higher on average than the paleomagnetism reconstruction, which may indicate that ~100% of the signal is the result of reservoir changes associated with the last glacial maximum.
  530.  
  531.     It must be mentioned that some of the palaeomagnetism data compiled by McElhinny and Senanayake were dated by 14C. Using our calibration (Fib. 2) to correct the timescale would only stretch the predicted [delta]14C curve by a few kyr. The U-Th/14C would still be well within the errors of the geomagnetic reconstruction of the [delta]14C curve. Therefore the most reasonable explanation for the large difference between the 14C and U-Th ages involves magnetic modulation of the atmosphere 14C production rate.
  532.  
  533.  
  534. after ruling out everything else, figure change in magnetic field is the most reasonable explanation for the discrepency
  535.  
  536.  
  537.     Discussion
  538.  
  539.     We have shown here that by using U-Th mass spectrometry one can achieve an age precision and reproducibility comparable to or even better than that obtained by the radiocarbon geochronicological method. U-Th ages measured in corals drilled off the shore of Barbados indicate that the 14C timescale is significantly compressed during the late glacial interval These results can be explained mainly as the consequences of chances in the cosmogenic nuclide production linked to the gradual decrease of the Earth's magnetic field. Changes in the carbon cycle can account for ~10-20% of the age discrepency observed between the two geochronometers. It should be borne in mind that the accuracy of the U-Th ages is proven only back to 10,000 years; nevertheless, all geophysical information available (dendrochronology, varve dating and paleomagnetism) suggests that our U-Th results are reasonable and that they may be used as a first-order tool to calibrate the radiocarbon timescale beyond the range of the high-resolution dendrochonological comparison.
  540.  
  541.  
  542. paper concluded their Uranium-Thorim dating data was only proven back 10,000 years, during which the C14 and Uranium-Thorim data agreed. Data implied a huge discrepency in C14 20,000 years ago which they spent most of the paper discussing. After a back-of-the-hand calculation concluded changes in the earth's magnetic field was the most reasonable explanation for the discrepency.
  543.  
  544.  
  545. NY Times headline: "ERRORS ARE FEARED IN CARBON DATING"
  546.  
  547. "it is already clear that the carbon method of dating will have to be recalibrated and corrected in some cases."
  548.  
  549. "some estimates of age based on carbon analyses were wrong by as much as 3,500 years."
  550.  
  551.  
  552. Author Malcolm Browne was the guy who took the famous picture of the monk who set himself on fire in protest of Deim's government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Browne went on to be a science writer
  553.  
  554.  
  555. maybe he wasn't a very good one...
  556.  
  557.  
  558. William Booth of Washington Post reported on the research similarly in shorter article:
  559.  
  560.  
  561. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1990/06/04/archaeology-resetting-carbon-14-clock/a133c430-0b4d-4475-87dd-7a039cd3a741/
  562.     ARCHAEOLOGY RESETTING CARBON-14 CLOCK
  563.  
  564.     By William Booth June 4, 1990
  565.  
  566.     Researchers using new techniques reported last week that the method most widely used to date prehistoric artifacts and fossils is inaccurate by thousands of years, meaning that many key dates for events such as ice ages and human migrations may have to be adjusted.
  567.  
  568.     Columbia University scientists say in the current issue of the journal Nature that the popular method of dating materials using ratios of radioactive carbon-14 gives dates that are up to 3,500 years too young. In other words, the "carbon-14 clock" has been running fast.
  569.  
  570.     The researchers drilled into an ancient coral reef off the coast of Barbados and then compared dates produced by the traditional carbon-14 technique and a more sophisticated technique based on the ratios of radioactive uranium and thorium. Carbon-14 dating consistently gave younger ages from about 8,000 to 30,000 before the present.
  571.  
  572.     Based on the new dating system, the peak of the last ice age is now thought to be 21,500 years ago, not 18,000 as figured by carbon-14 dating. Many archaeologists may also need to fiddle with their dates, though the more important question of sequence -- of what happened first -- will not be altered.
  573.  
  574.  
  575.  
  576. paper was published in May 31 1990: https://www.nature.com/articles/345405a0
  577.  
  578. Booth says this was from the researches in the week before June 4, 1990, so referring to the paper or a statement by them
  579.  
  580. paper doesn't say anything about "time to adjust key dates" and its unusual even for Washington Post to flat out lie
  581.  
  582. second paragraph referring directly to the paper is a lie
  583.  
  584.  
  585. Booth was arrested by Israeli police I guess for falling for some kind of trap where they wanted to pay protestors to take pictures of them inciting unrest:
  586.  
  587.  
  588. https://www.timesofisrael.com/washington-post-reporter-briefly-detained-in-jerusalem-for-incitement/
  589.     Police briefly detain Washington Post reporter for ‘incitement’
  590.  
  591.     Border policemen question William Booth outside Jerusalem's Damascus Gate after woman reportedly offers to provoke a demonstration; government calls move 'unnecessary'
  592.  
  593.     By JUDAH ARI GROSS
  594.  
  595.     Washington Post Jerusalem bureau chief William Booth and a colleague were briefly detained by Israeli police Tuesday outside Jerusalem’s Old City, in what what the government called the “the result of an unfortunate misunderstanding.”
  596.  
  597.     Booth, along with journalist Sufian Taha and reporter Ruth Marks Eglash, had been planning to interview locals near the Damascus Gate next to the Old City of Jerusalem, which has been the site of several attempted attacks in the last three days.
  598.  
  599.     ...An Arab woman allegedly told Booth that if he paid some of the bystanders, they would provoke the nearby police officers and start a violent demonstration, Jerusalem Police spokesperson Asi Aharoni told The Times of Israel.
  600.  
  601.     “Police officers were told that she said if you pay these youngsters, they will start the provocation and you’ll be able to take pictures,” Aharoni said.
  602.  
  603.     ...Speaking in Berlin, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel was committed to a free press.
  604.  
  605.     “We do not arrest journalists. The press in Israel is very energetic and free to say anything it wants,” he said during a press conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel.
  606.  
  607.  
  608. gov apologized for it and said nothing was going on
  609.  
  610. NY Times article on it short on details: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/17/world/middleeast/washington-post-reporter-william-booth-detained-by-israel.html
  611.  
  612. background:
  613.  
  614. http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Initial-report-Suspected-stabbing-of-2-Israelis-in-Old-City-Damascus-Gate-445474
  615.     OFFICERS THWART TWO ATTACKS AT DAMASCUS GATE
  616.  
  617.     IDF to demolish homes of two teenage terrorists from Sha’ar Binyamin Rami Levy attack
  618.  
  619.     BY DANIEL K. EISENBUD, KHALED ABU TOAMEH, YAAKOV LAPPIN  FEBRUARY 19, 2016 09:20
  620.  
  621.     Two Border Police officers were wounded in a stabbing attack outside the Old City’s Damascus Gate on Friday morning carried out by a Palestinian man who was shot dead at the scene.
  622.  
  623.     It was one of four violent incidents that occurred in the West Bank and east Jerusalem over the weekend, two of which occurred at the Damascus Gate.
  624.  
  625.     On Saturday evening, at approximately 6 p.m., Border Police stationed at the Damascus Gate identified a suspicious-looking 18-yearold Arab male who pulled a knife when he was asked to show identification, police said. Aided by a police canine, the officers were able to quickly disarm and subdue the suspect without sustaining any injuries.
  626.  
  627.     In the Friday incident, Muhammad Muhammad Abu Khalif, 20, attacked the two officers from behind at approximately 9 a.m.
  628.  
  629.     ...Police said heightened security remains in effect in and around the Old City, with an emphasis on Damascus Gate, which has been the site of a series of deadly attacks carried out by Palestinian men, women and teenagers of both sexes since the terrorism wave engulfed the capital in October.
  630.  
  631.     ...Border Police and IDF soldiers were dispersing a disturbance at the scene, when the ramming attack occurred. The attacker’s car plowed into a Border Police jeep after he was shot.
  632.  
  633.     Some 3,000 Palestinians attended Hamed’s funeral later in the day, chanting slogans calling for revenge and praising him as a “hero” and martyr.”
  634.  
  635.  
  636. there were multiple attacks over a few days on police officers and it caused unrest
  637.  
  638. looks there their have been a lot of attacks on police officers at Damascus gate:
  639.  
  640.  
  641. https://www.timesofisrael.com/probe-into-deadly-damascus-gate-attack-said-to-fault-officers/
  642.  
  643. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-violence/three-palestinians-shot-dead-after-killing-israeli-officer-idUSKBN1972J3
  644.  
  645.  
  646. in Feb 2016, there were 4 attacks as of Feb 19, two of which occured at damascus gate over weekend of 14-15th and one on morning of 19th. Booth was arrested on the 16th so this was in the middle of the attacks.
  647.  
  648. police had a statement:
  649.  
  650. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/jerusalem-police-briefly-detain-washington-post-reporter-1.5405234
  651.     Jerusalem Police issued a statement saying that a "passerby had complained that he was witness to the intention on the part of a number of people to stage a provocative situation and a disturbance of the peace by young Arabs directed at police." The incident was apparently to be staged for "propaganda purposes," the police added.
  652.  
  653.     "In light of the complaint, the police detained a number of suspects to clarify the facts – in a sensitive and discreet manner at the adjacent police facility. When the circumstances of the incident became clear, and no suspicion of criminal activity was found, the detainees were immediately released by the investigating officer without proceedings of any kind in the matter."
  654.  
  655.     ...Israel Police later released another statement, apologizing for any emotional harm caused to the journalists, saying that an investigation of the incident showed that the detainment was necessary in light of the information that had been received, which later turned out to have been false.  
  656.  
  657.  
  658. booth later reported on the violence at Damascus Gate:
  659.  
  660. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/jerusalems-ancient-damascus-gate-is-at-the-heart-of-a-modern-wave-of-violence/2016/02/16/a3da07f8-d42a-11e5-a65b-587e721fb231_story.html
  661.     Jerusalem’s ancient Damascus Gate is at the heart of a modern wave of violence
  662.     By William Booth and Ruth Eglash
  663.  
  664.     Asked why Palestinians chose the Damascus Gate as a site for attacks, the teen said, “Because this is where the police harass and humiliate the girls and the boys.”
  665.  
  666.     That is reason to grab a knife?
  667.  
  668.     “For some,” Afaneh said.
  669.  
  670.     Oct. 4, when Palestinian teen Fadi ­Alloun was accused by nearby Israelis of attempting to attack them. The crowd chased Alloun into the central square, where he was shot by Israeli police officers who had responded to a call. Palestinians say Alloun was lynched. Israeli police said he had a knife. Since then, at least 11 Palestinians have been killed at the gate or at the nearby tram stop.
  671.  
  672.     ...The high level of security extended even to journalists. On Tuesday, while conducting interviews at the Damascus Gate, Washington Post bureau chief William Booth and correspondent Sufian Taha were briefly detained by police on suspicion of causing incitement. The police later issued an apology, saying the suspicions were “without foundation.”
  673.  
  674.     ...Hatem Ganam, 57, sells duffel bags and backpacks at a shop just inside the Damascus Gate. “All the tension, all the pressure, is concentrated right here. All the insults, humiliations, searches. All here. It is a terrifying atmosphere, I promise you.”
  675.  
  676.     “Damascus Gate is our gate,” the Palestinian merchant said. “The more the Israelis pull, the tighter we hold on.”
  677.  
  678.     Sufian Taha contributed to this report.
  679.  
  680.  
  681. also reported this:
  682.  
  683. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/palestinian-journalist-jailed-without-charge-by-israel-has-not-eaten-for-three-months/2016/02/18/48b007a8-d59a-11e5-a65b-587e721fb231_story.html
  684.     Palestinian journalist detained without charge by Israel has not eaten for three months
  685.  
  686.     By William Booth February 18, 2016
  687.  
  688.     RAMALLAH, West Bank — “They’ve kidnapped my husband,” said the wife of Mohammed al-Qeq, a Palestinian journalist who has been on a hunger strike in an Israeli hospital for three months.
  689.  
  690.     “He is dying,” she said.
  691.  
  692.     Qeq, a reporter for a Saudi TV network, was arrested by Israeli security forces in November at his home in Ramallah and taken to an Israeli prison, where he was placed under “administrative detention,” a tool employed by Israeli military courts to hold Palestinian suspects without charges.
  693.  
  694.     Such detainees, arrested in the occupied West Bank and assumed to pose an immediate danger to the state, can be jailed indefinitely.
  695.  
  696.  
  697. looks bad for israeli police
  698.  
  699. maybe laying it on too thick--police were just murdered, later reported blamed israli police for the attacks
  700.  
  701. police issued three statements on the arrest:
  702.  
  703. http://mondoweiss.net/2016/02/israel-detains-washington-post-bureau-chief-in-jerusalem-accusing-him-of-incitement/
  704.     “A passer-by complained that he witnessed a number of people intending to stage a provocative situation and disturbances by young Arabs toward policemen responsible for security in the area, apparently for propaganda purposes. In view of the complaint, the policemen detained a number of suspects in order to clarify the facts in a sensitive and discreet manner at the nearby police facility,” said the statement from police spokesperson Luba Samri, adding Booth was  “released immediately by the investigating officer without any other steps taken in the matter.”
  705.  
  706.     Update: Israeli police have now issued a third statement in the case, stating that the original complaint was “without foundation.”
  707.  
  708.     ...“Regarding the detaining and questioning of a Washington Post correspondent, we would like to make it clear that following an inquiry into the circumstances of the event it has been ascertained that the information which had been given to the officers was without foundation. We regret if any distress was caused to those who were detained. The police are aware of the need for sensitivity and officers are instructed to allow journalists to do their work including in centers of friction that are especially sensitive due to the security situation, with emphasis on the public peace and the security of the journalists themselves while honoring and realizing the important value of freedom of the press.”
  709.  
  710.  
  711. wapo might have done better to report the first two police statements: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/16/israel-briefly-detains-two-washington-post-journalists-calls-it-an-unfortunate-misunderstanding/
  712.  
  713. https://www.thewrap.com/washington-post-reporter-detained-by-israeli-authorities-in-unfortunate-misunderstanding/
  714.  
  715. http://www.dw.com/en/journalists-fume-over-arrest-of-washington-post-reporters-in-jerusalem/a-19054303
  716.  
  717.  
  718. why were there three statements and how did they figure out the charges were "without foundation" so quickly?
  719.  
  720. might be worth looking at this for media back-and-forth a la Leopold and Loeb case, particularly in the context of the subsequent attacks (not subject of current inquiry, something for later)
  721.  
  722.  
  723. seems most likely true that the journalists were innocent of what they were arrested for, interesting part being media reaction to the case
  724.  
  725.  
  726. https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2016/02/16/israel-detains-washington-post-jerusalem-bureau-chief
  727.     An Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman, Emmanuel Nahshon, called it "a regrettable incident" and praised Booth as "an excellent journalist".
  728.  
  729.  
  730. on that last point, however...
  731.  
  732.  
  733. booth getting in trouble again:
  734.  
  735. https://www.poynter.org/news/report-washington-post-suspends-william-booth
  736.     The Washington Post has suspended William Booth, Alexander C. Kaufman reports. The Post apologized earlier this week, saying Booth lifted copy from an article by a University of Southern California professor in a story he wrote about the Panama Canal.
  737.  
  738.     ...Kaufman has a letter from Post Executive Editor Marty Baron to Andrea Hricko, the professor to whose work Booth helped himself. The plagiarism "represented a serious violation of our ethics standards," Baron writes.
  739.  
  740. https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/news/city-desk/blog/13066704/washington-post-mexico-bureau-chief-admits-plagiarizing-academic-journal-in-panama-story
  741.  
  742.  
  743. is Booth an idiot?
  744.  
  745. most propagandists in NY TImes and WaPo don't flat-out lie, but Booth is an exception, and so would tend to be the one to take the heat for it
  746.  
  747. to keep with theme here's a slightly creepy article by him on Bayeax tapestry:
  748.  
  749. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/frances-fabled-bayeux-tapestry-is-headed-to-britain-in-a-loan-for-the-ages/2018/01/18/a8827044-fb9f-11e7-9b5d-bbf0da31214d_story.html
  750.     France’s epic Bayeux Tapestry is headed to Britain, in a loan for the ages
  751.  
  752.     By William Booth and James McAuley January 18
  753.  
  754.     LONDON — It is probably the most famous piece of medieval embroidery in the world, a ribbon of scrolling tapestry 70 yards long that tells in pictures the story of the Norman Conquest of England in 1066, an epic tale of gore, glory and God.
  755.  
  756.     There is nothing quite like the Bayeux Tapestry, a near-cinematic work of narrative genius. French President Emmanuel Macron's announcement Thursday evening that his government will allow the priceless treasure to leave France for the first time in almost 1,000 years to be exhibited in Britain is a sensational stroke of cultural diplomacy.
  757.  
  758.     ...For the British, the Bayeux Tapestry holds a powerful allure, since the Norman Conquest represented not just a tragedy and a defeat but a pivot point that essentially transformed Anglo-Saxon society into the Britain of today (and gave us the language of Shakespeare).
  759.  
  760.     ...The 20-inch-high, intricately stitched work is a history and morality play — unfolding chronologically from left to right, with a couple of flashbacks — about how the heroic but flawed Harold, Earl of Wessex, briefly took the throne after the death of the heirless Edward the Confessor, only to be defeated just months into his reign by the righteous William, Duke of Normandy, at the climactic Battle of Hastings.
  761.  
  762.     As William Faulkner wrote: "'The past is never dead. It's not even past." A descendant of William the Conqueror sits on the British throne today, 91-year-old Queen Elizabeth II.
  763.  
  764.     ...fans of the Bayeux embroidery were giddy at the prospect of its appearance in Britain, with various museums and their political patrons already competing to host the show.
  765.  
  766.     "This is a work that can only be spoken of in superlatives," said Andrew Bridgeford, a lawyer, historian and the author of "1066: The Hidden History of the Bayeux Tapestry."
  767.  
  768.     ...Not everyone in Britain was as thrilled about the second coming of the tapestry — not least because it chronicles a crushing defeat. John Redwood, a Conservative Party lawmaker and hard-line advocate of Britain's exit from the European Union, blasted out a volley of tweets.
  769.  
  770.     "While I'm sure the offer is well meant, I will pass over the unfortunate truth that it depicts an invading French army killing England's King & many in his army before taking over," he wrote.
  771.  
  772.     ...Not only is the tapestry extraordinary, so is its mere survival: The wool yarn embroidered on linen has bested both moths and Nazis.
  773.  
  774.     During the French Revolution, the panels were to be confiscated to cover military wagons, but they were rescued by a local lawyer.
  775.  
  776.     Napoleon took the tapestry to Paris and paraded before it as he contemplated an invasion of England.
  777.  
  778.     Because of its depiction of the conquest — by the descendants of Norsemen or Vikings — the Nazis coveted the tapestry as Aryan propaganda.
  779.  
  780.     Before the Allied invasion of France in World War II, the Germans moved the tapestry to occupied Paris to safeguard it along with their other loot in the ­Louvre. The SS chief, Heinrich Himmler, wanted it to decorate his medieval castle in Germany.
  781.  
  782.     Just hours before the Allies swept into Paris, British code-breakers intercepted a signal from Himmler ordering his troops to snatch the tapestry — but they were repelled by French resistance fighters who took up positions at the Louvre.
  783.  
  784.     ...Most scholars suspect that William the Conqueror's half brother, Bishop Odo of Bayeux, commissioned the piece, although no one knows and there are other intriguing possibilities. Indeed, William's Norman lords, and the Anglo-Saxons who backed him, became landed millionaires, even billionaires, by today's standards.
  785.  
  786.     The designer's identity is also lost to history. Although Gameson said it could have been a monk, as some argue, he suspects it was someone more worldly and well traveled who was familiar with the look of contemporary ships, weapons, horse tack, architecture and court life.
  787.  
  788.  
  789. Booth seems to be giddy himself about all the mysteries behind the Bayeau tapestry
  790.  
  791.  
  792.     ...But the tapestry suggests, too, that William won by divine right. Harold was the usurper to the throne, it appears to argue, and William the rightful heir.
  793.  
  794.     There is a literal hand of God shown here, a cross emblazoned on a Norman ship there. "The signs are subtle to us," Gameson said. But to its 11th-century audience, the message would have been clear: The right guy won.
  795.  
  796.  
  797. ------
  798.  
  799.  
  800. https://github.com/amazing-conspiracy-theory-notes-guy/amazing-conspiracy-theory-notes/blob/master/cases/william-booth
  801.  
  802.  
  803. booth misantrhopic, liar
  804.  
  805. why lie to make it harder to figure out human history?
  806.  
  807.  
  808. the "carbon dating might be all wrong" articles were contemporary with this, which was also in the news: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dating_the_Dead_Sea_Scrolls
  809.  
  810.  
  811. so they made it more confusing or harder to figure out, resolve debate
  812.  
  813. would hope didn't confuse debate among experts, since have tree rings back 9k years
  814.  
  815.  
  816. https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/radiocarbon/article/viewFile/1537/1541
  817.  
  818.  
  819. http://roberteisenman.com/articles/Redating_the_Radio_Carbon_Dating_of_the_DSS.pdf
  820.  
  821.  
  822. debate on carbon dating the scrolls continued through 1995
  823.  
  824.  
  825. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/who-wrote-the-dead-sea-scrolls-11781900/
  826.  
  827. I guess debate ongoing in 2010
  828.  
  829. this is the sort of stuff Booth would write about too, caves being looted
  830.  
  831.  
  832. ------
  833.  
  834.  
  835. http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1566827/23/Jones_E-THESIS_FINAL_EDJ_JULY_2017.pdf
  836.     This is the first academic historical account of the search for DNA fro m ancient and extinct organisms and the first account of the celebrity science concept. The se arch for DNA from fossils surfaced from the interplay between paleontology, archeology, and molecul ar biology in the 1980s and has e volved from an emergent into a more established technoscience today. However, it has evolved under intense public interest and extreme media exposure, particularly as it coincided with and was catalyzed into the media spotlight by the book and movie Jurass ic Park in the 1990s. Drawing on historical material and oral history interviews with over fifty scientists, I explore ancient DN A’s disciplinary development and explain its relationship with the media, especially through examining its close connection to de - extinction, the idea of bringing back extinct species. As the discipline developed , researchers responded to its tec hnoscientific challenges and status as a public - facing practice. Authentication of research results was a primary problem for scientists. Here, contamination concerns placed the practice’s credibility on the line. However, celebrity was also a crucial component to ancient DNA’s disciplinary development. While media mobilized the practice, it destabilized it, too. This thesis argues that the search for ancient DNA can be characterized as a history of a celebrity science. I argue that a celebrity science develops within a shared concept ual space of professional and popular interests. M edia are crucial in the making of a celebrity science , pursuing the science and scientists for the news values . But researchers participate in this process , too, responding positively and negatively to the attention. Ultimately, a celebrity science is the outcome of prolonged publicity advanced by a relation ship actively pursued and produced by both scientists and media members . Ancient DNA as a case study of celebrity science has implications for the process of science and scienc e communication.
  837.  
  838.  
  839. using DNA in general in paleantology, archeology, and history has been a hot-button issue in media and author says this has been a destablizing force
  840.  
  841. focuses on idea of ressurrecting extinct species with DNA
  842.  
  843.  
  844.     ...This thesis has provided the first academic historical account of the search for DNA from ancient and extinct organisms and the first account of the celebrity science concept. This microstudy and disciplinary history of ancient DNA research is a contribution to the historiography of science with clear i mplications for understanding the broader process and practice of contemporary science today. Ancient DNA’s history highlights the role of popul ar culture in the development of a discipline , spotlighting the fact that media can and does influence the practice, production, and communication of scientific knowledge over a prolonged period of time. This history demonstrates that the media is not just influential in how a single controv ersy, event, or episode in science plays out, but it demonstrates that it can have a sustained impact on the entire development of a discipline.
  845.  
  846.  
  847. in conclusion says media "can and does influence" the practice and development of a science over time
  848.  
  849. other examples of this? maybe the cold fusion controversy, and radio-carbon dating thing too
  850.  
  851. everyone reads the news so I guess the news influences everyone
  852.  
  853.  
  854. ------
  855.  
  856.  
  857. here's another debate, (hopefully) resolved by science:
  858.  
  859. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ajpa.23308
  860.     A female Viking warrior confirmed by genomics
  861.  
  862.     ...Already in the early middle ages, there were narratives about fierce female Vikings fighting alongside men. Although, continuously reoccurring in art as well as in poetry, the women warriors have generally been dismissed as mythological phenomena (Gardeła, 2013; Jesch, 1991; Jochens, 1996).
  863.  
  864.     ...A first osteological analysis done in the 1970ies identified the skeleton as a female, but this could not generate further discussion as the skeleton could not securely be associated to a context. When the sex identification and a proper contextualisation was made, and set in relation to the objects (Kjellström, 2016), questions were still raised if the martial objects in the grave mirrored the identity of the deceased. Similar associations of women buried with weapons have been dismissed, arguing that the armaments could have been heirlooms, carriers of symbolic meaning or grave goods reflecting the status and role of the family rather than the individual (Gardeła, 2013). Male individuals in burials with a similar material record are not questioned in the same way. Furthermore, an argument can be put forward that the grave originally may have held a second, now missing, individual. In which case, the weaponry could have been a part of that individual's grave furnishings, while the remaining female was buried without any objects. However, the distribution of the grave goods within the grave, their spatial relation to the female individual and the total lack of any typically female attributed grave artefacts disputes this possibility.
  865.  
  866.  
  867.  
  868. https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?hl=en&volume=Analecta+Archaeologica+Ressoviensia&publication_year=2013&pages=%0AGarde%C5%82a%2C+L.+%282013%29.+%E2%80%9CWarrior%E2%80%90women%E2%80%9D+in+Viking+Age+Scandinavia%3F+A+preliminary+archaeological+study.+Analecta+Archaeologica+Ressoviensia%2C+8%2C+273%E2%80%93314.%0A&journal=273-314&issue=8&author=L.+Garde%C5%82a&title=Warrior%E2%80%90women%E2%80%9D+in+Viking+Age+Scandinavia%3F+A+preliminary+archaeological+study
  869.     'Warrior-women'in Viking Age Scandinavia? A preliminary archaeological study
  870.     L Gardeła
  871.  
  872.  
  873. this article on same subject uses a lot of weasel-language and concludes "it's too early to say if there were female viking warriors" even though author overviews female viking warrior graves, viking texts describing female warriors, and statues of them that aren't Valkyries  
  874.  
  875.  
  876. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigg
  877.     Frigg is described as a goddess associated with foreknowledge and wisdom in Norse mythology, the northernmost branch of Germanic mythology and most extensively attested. Frigg is the wife of the major god Odin and dwells in the wetland halls of Fensalir, is famous for her foreknowledge, is associated with the goddesses Fulla, Lofn, Hlín, and Gná, and is ambiguously associated with the Earth, otherwise personified as an apparently separate entity Jörð (Old Norse "Earth"). The children of Frigg and Odin include the gleaming god Baldr. Due to significant thematic overlap, scholars have proposed a particular connection to the goddess Freyja.
  878.  
  879.  
  880. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulla
  881.     In Germanic mythology, Fulla (Old Norse, possibly "bountiful"[1]) or Volla (Old High German) is a goddess. In Norse mythology, Fulla is described as wearing a golden band and as tending to the ashen box and the footwear owned by the goddess Frigg
  882.  
  883.  
  884. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gn%C3%A1_and_H%C3%B3fvarpnir
  885.     In Norse mythology, Gná is a goddess who runs errands in other worlds for the goddess Frigg and rides the flying, sea-treading horse Hófvarpnir
  886.  
  887.  
  888. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigg
  889.     ...Frigg receives three mentions in the Poetic Edda poem Völuspá. In the first mention, the poem recounts that Frigg wept for the death of her son Baldr in Fensalir.[13] Later in the poem, when the future death of Odin is foretold, Odin himself is referred to as the "beloved of Frigg" and his future death is referred to as the "second grief of Frigg".
  890.  
  891.  
  892. this goddess was important in norse mythology too, plus Friday was named after her
  893.  
  894. she was the goddess of wisdom
  895.  
  896. did Rollo think of her example if/when taking poppa's advice? (probably not eventually since he converted to christianity)
  897.  
  898.  
  899. they also had GUNNHILD, MOTHER OF KINGS
  900.  
  901. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnhild,_Mother_of_Kings
  902.  
  903.  
  904. https://www.quora.com/Did-the-vikings-really-have-a-woman-leader-as-shown-in-the-TV-show
  905.  
  906.  
  907. also Aud the deep-minded:
  908.  
  909.  
  910. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aud_the_Deep-Minded_(Ketilsd%C3%B3ttir)
  911.     On her ship were twenty men under her command, proving that she was respected, capable, independent and strong-willed. In addition to the crew, there were other men on her ship, prisoners from Viking raids near and around the British Isles. Aud gave these men their freedom once they were in Iceland, making them freed-men, a class between slave and free, where they were not owned but did not have all the rights of a free-born man. She also gave them land to farm and upon which they could make a living. One of these men so rewarded was Vifil, who was given Vifilsdal, part of Hvammur í Skeggjadal, the area in which Aud settled. When Aud arrived in the western region of Iceland, she claimed all the land in Dalasýsla between the rivers Dagverdara and Skraumuhlaupsa for her family.[6] Unlike most early Icelandic settlers, Aud was a baptized Christian and is commonly credited with bringing Christianity to Iceland. Aud erected crosses where she could pray on a prominent hill within her lands, now known as Krossholar (Krosshólaborg).[7]
  912.  
  913.  
  914.  
  915. this is interesting:
  916.  
  917. https://www.quora.com/Did-the-vikings-really-have-a-woman-leader-as-shown-in-the-TV-show
  918.     Given that the jarls were the war leaders, it’s possible their wives would rule in their stead while the men were out plundering.
  919.  
  920.     Auslag ruled in place of the missing Ragnar. This is a likely power position for Norse women. She minded the home fires while the king was elsewhere engaged.
  921.  
  922.     Lagertha ruled in her own right in the show. This is not likely. She would have had to marry and her husband would become jarl. She did marry a couple of men, who she promptly killed. She would more likely be de facto ruler, but Bjorn would be considered the next in line to follow Ragnar.
  923.  
  924.     Women did have a great deal of autonomy in Norse society, but were generally restricted from ruling positions. They certainly had power, but would not be rulers on their own.
  925.  
  926.     The Oseberg burial ship contained the bodies of two women. The burial goods showed at least one of the women to be very wealthy (or had a wealthy and doting husband).
  927.  
  928.  
  929. if the jarls were out fighting norse women would have to rule at home
  930.  
  931.  
  932. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagertha
  933.     Lagertha's tale is recorded in passages in the ninth book of the Gesta Danorum, a twelfth-century work of Danish history by Saxo Grammaticus.[2] According to the Gesta (¶ 9.4.1–9.4.11), Lagertha's career as a warrior began when Frø, king of Sweden, invaded Norway and killed the Norwegian king Siward. Frø put the women of the dead king's family into a brothel for public humiliation. Hearing of this, Ragnar Lodbrok came with an army to avenge his grandfather Siward. Many of the women Frø had ordered abused dressed themselves in men's clothing and fought on Ragnar's side.[1] Chief among them, and key to Ragnar's victory, was Lagertha. Saxo recounts:
  934.  
  935.         Ladgerda, a skilled Amazon, who, though a maiden, had the courage of a man, and fought in front among the bravest with her hair loose over her shoulders. All-marvelled at her matchless deeds, for her locks flying down her back betrayed that she was a woman.
  936.  
  937.     Impressed with her courage, Ragnar courted her from afar. Lagertha feigned interest and Ragnar arrived to seek her hand, bidding his companions wait in the Gaular valley. He was set upon by a bear and a great hound which Lagertha had guarding her home, but killed the bear with his spear and choked the hound to death. Thus he won the hand of Lagertha in marriage. According to Saxo, Ragnar had a son with her, Fridleif, as well as two daughters, whose names are not recorded.[2]
  938.  
  939.     After returning to Denmark to fight a civil war, Ragnar (who, according to Saxo, was still annoyed that Lagertha had set beasts against him) divorced Lagertha in order to marry Thora Borgarhjört (Þóra Borgarhjǫrtr), daughter of King Herraud (Herrauðr) of Sweden.[1] He won the hand of his new love after numerous adventures, but upon returning to Denmark was again faced with a civil war. Ragnar sent to Norway for support, and Lagertha, who still loved him, came to his aid with 120 ships, according to Saxo.[2] When at the height of the battle, Ragnar's son Siward was wounded, Lagertha saved the day for Ragnar with a counter-attack:
  940.  
  941.         Ladgerda, who had a matchless spirit though a delicate frame, covered by her splendid bravery the inclination of the soldiers to waver. For she made a sally about, and flew round to the rear of the enemy, taking them unawares, and thus turned the panic of her friends into the camp of the enemy.[2]
  942.  
  943.     Upon returning to Norway, she quarrelled with her husband, and slew him with a spearhead she concealed in her gown. Saxo concludes that she then "usurped the whole of his name and sovereignty; for this most presumptuous dame thought it pleasanter to rule without her husband than to share the throne with him".[2]
  944.  
  945.  
  946. compare this to Henry-Gregory-Saxon conflict
  947.  
  948. shit was a sausage-fest
  949.  
  950. (there was Matilda, Agnes)
  951.  
  952.  
  953. http://www.thefinertimes.com/Middle-Ages/women-in-the-middle-ages.html
  954.     In order to best describe the role and position of women in the Middle Ages, it is first necessary to look at social standing of the women.  In general, women at this point were considered inferior to men and their duties were primarily confined to the home and family life.  A number of women, however, were able to transcend the confines of societal expectations to become prominent women in medieval society.
  955.  
  956.  
  957. so this is weird--there's a debate on role of women in viking society with some arguing male-dominated, but so far looks like women were more powerful in norse lands than anywhere else thousands of miles around
  958.  
  959.    
  960.     ...Whether a woman in the Middle Ages held the occupation of mother, nun, artisan, peasant, or noble, her role in life was set from the beginning.  Through marriage or prolific accomplishments, individual women were able to merit more respect from men or other women.  Though in appearance and everyday activity poor women and rich women were worlds apart, they were both restricted by their sex and seen as inferior by men and society.
  961.  
  962.  
  963. but in norse society they were sometimes literally worshiped and given names like "MOTHER OF KINGS" and "The Deep-Minded"
  964.  
  965.  
  966. this is a good article with factual arguments:
  967.  
  968. http://valkyrja.com/270415.html
  969.  
  970. says viking society was egalitarian
  971.  
  972. also goes over history of role of viking women debate, including misidentification of skeletons (worth looking into later? Gardeła article and others point to a mystery there, like how did they end up doing such a bad job)
  973.  
  974.  
  975. ------
  976.  
  977. can conclude that, barring other information, best guess is that Rollo would have listened to the advice of his wife
  978.  
  979. unfortunately, Poppa's wiki article is a stub and there are a lot of pizza places named "Poppa Rollo's"
  980.  
  981.  
  982. Dudo's biography was translated to English: https://books.google.com/books/about/History_of_the_Normans.html?id=3ueqiHfAzrMC
  983.  
  984.  
  985. apparently "Poppa" only appears twice... only says Rollo married Poppa and she gave birth to Will longsword
  986.  
  987.  
  988. ------
  989.  
  990.  
  991. https://books.google.com/books?id=3ueqiHfAzrMC&q=poppa#v=snippet&q=convert&f=false
  992.  
  993. Dudo dedicated the book to bishop Adalbero of Laon
  994.  
  995.  
  996. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adalberon_(bishop_of_Laon)
  997.  
  998. Adalbero was anti-papal reform and got popesmacked with a sex scandal involving queen of Italy
  999.  
  1000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_of_Italy
  1001.  
  1002. later got exonerated and accusing duke had to flee, then both accused of poisoning someone
  1003.  
  1004. Adalbero had an idea of three classes in medieval society, warriors, priests, and peasants, and that peasants were most important and supporting mankind
  1005.  
  1006. he didn't like Odilo, abbot of Cluny, for his opposition of lower-class people becoming bishops
  1007.  
  1008.  
  1009.  
  1010. ------
  1011.  
  1012.  
  1013. this says not much known about Poppa, and Dudo one of the only sources:
  1014.  
  1015. http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/poppa000.htm
  1016.     A wife or mistress of Rollo of Normandy, and mother of Rollo's son and successor William "Longsword", her name is reported only by the often unreliable Dudo [ii, 16 (pp. 38-9); iii, 36 (p. 57)] and by sources depending on him (hence the quotes around her name). The only certain fact that is known about her comes from the contemporary (or nearly so) Planctus of her son William, which states (without naming her) that she was a Christian, and that her son William was born overseas.
  1017.  
  1018.     ...Poppa was said by Dudo [ii, 16 (pp. 38-9); iii, 36 (p. 57)] to be of Frankish origin, daughter of a certain count Bérenger. The Planctus, which does not provide her name, states that she was a Christian, and mother by a pagan father (i.e., Rollo, whose name is also not given) of William, who was born overseas. The accounts given by Dudo and the Planctus are not necessarily contradictory (since Dudo places Rollo overseas in England not long after mentioning the marriage), but there is also nothing in the Planctus that could be seen as confirming Dudo's account. Some authors have gone even further than Dudo's vague account, by attempting to identify the father of Poppa more specifically, and even to provide her with a mother. Two recent such suggestions are mentioned here, with some comments.
  1019.  
  1020.  
  1021.  
  1022. This has more than would could find in translation of Dudo's Rollo biography
  1023.  
  1024. Dudo said she was Frankish--did Charles III see her as part of his efforts to convert Rollo? (I think that's what he was doing?)
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