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  1. 01/04/2020 LinuxMint-chat
  2.  
  3. <lumberjack> any muffled whispers of a date when LMDE4 might be released?
  4. <themachine> lumberjack: It's already out. It's called Debian 10.
  5. <Kutulu> Minkar: Totally! As it was patched in May 19 I would imagine it wouldn't be too much longer. Couldn't hurt to put a feature request in though.
  6. <lumberjack> you clearly are not a LMDE3 user...
  7. <xmetal> o\
  8. <themachine> lumberjack: Have you considered trying Debian?
  9. <lumberjack> I have used it, and seriously appreciate LMDE3 cinnamon integration into Debian. Thank you!
  10. <lumberjack> Not a fan of Ubuntu, but love Mint!
  11. <xmetal> why not use Cinnamon on Debian?
  12. <lumberjack> xmetal: it's not the same
  13. <sponix2ipfw> Everyone should run Debian 10
  14. <lumberjack> I thought this a Mint chat? WTF?
  15. <sponix2ipfw> lol
  16. <themachine> Mint? Who uses mint?
  17. * xmetal shrugs i use Cinnamon on OpenSuse and/or Arch
  18. <sponix2ipfw> Very few of us in here use Mint
  19. <xmetal> the  GUI updater that Mint has is the only thing i can think of that is not in Debian by default
  20. <lumberjack> sponix2ipfw: freenode has a linux chat...
  21. <KM> I use Mint.
  22. <sponix2ipfw> I use MX Linux.. A modernized Debian
  23. <themachine> lumberjack: sooo, what's the difference between mint + cinnamon and debian + cinnamon
  24. <themachine> "modernized"
  25. <Minkar> Why spend time on the "Official Linux Mint Chat Channel" if you don't even use it?
  26. <themachine> I feel that's a loose interpretation
  27. <xmetal> not on it now but i have Debian 10 here
  28. <xmetal> not booted into it*
  29. <lumberjack> themachine: you're half smart, why don't you figure it out for yourself?
  30. <themachine> Minkar: Because of the people that didn't use mint left then you'd lose 90% of the people that know what they are talking about.
  31. <xmetal> themachine, the GUI updater ... the theme (that can be copied over)
  32. <xmetal> trying to think of anything else
  33. <themachine> oh right, I forgot about the gui updater
  34. <themachine> I just feel like "apt upgrade" is so much easier
  35. <xmetal> i do admit i still have not had luck with the GUI updater in Yast on opensuse ... keeps crashing when i go to try it
  36. <xmetal> (i am more comfortable with zypper in the cli anyway)
  37. <themachine> s/Because of/Because if/
  38. <themachine> I get that a frontend for the repos can be nice for users that aren't sure what they are looking for but the updater just seems unnecessary.
  39. <themachine> Clearly I'm biased towards the cli though
  40. <lumberjack> themachine: you sound a young promiscuous Linux user...or are you monogamous as I?
  41. <themachine> if you're asking me if I distro hop the answer is no
  42. <lumberjack> themachine: if so which distro?
  43. <themachine> I use Debian
  44. <themachine> though I certainly have a number of distros in VMs for when people ask questions
  45. <lumberjack> themachine: and why are you here again?
  46. <themachine> Because I can be
  47. <nameless> his friends are here!!
  48. <themachine> They are?
  49. <xmetal> he has friends ... pfft
  50. <themachine> I'm here because occasionally someone has an interesting question and for some reason I take it upon myself to help with said question
  51. <themachine> The real question is why am I in -help
  52. <themachine> Cause I still don't know the answer to that question
  53. <themachine> though I blame nameless for it
  54. <sponix2ipfw> He is programed to be here
  55. <sponix2ipfw> That's why
  56. <lumberjack> themachine: do you always try and talk Mint users to a different distro then this chats support?
  57. <themachine> beep boop
  58. <themachine> Of course
  59. <themachine> Well maybe not always
  60. <themachine> but certainly often
  61. <xmetal> seriously ... I dont see what the big change between LMDE 4 (what it will be) and Debian  Cinnamon
  62. * xmetal shrugs
  63. <xmetal> Debian 10 Cinnamon
  64. <lumberjack> themachine: has anyone else here thought you a dick for doing so?
  65. <themachine> Probably
  66. <themachine> though I'm a dick for a number of other reasons too
  67. <xmetal> there are far better reasons to come to that conclusion
  68. <xmetal> DAMN
  69. <themachine> 2slow
  70. <xmetal> typed that too slow
  71. <xmetal> :|
  72. <themachine> gotta get them WPMs up xmetal, those are rookie numbers
  73. <sponix2ipfw> lumberjack: please don't call themachine names
  74. <themachine> That was hardly a name sponix2ipfw. It was more of a title.
  75. <sponix2ipfw> Or anyone for that matter
  76. * mint is now known as Guest3189
  77. <lumberjack> sponix2ipfw: I didn't, I simply notice what some call a virtue...
  78. * Guest3189 is now known as Power-Supply
  79. <lumberjack> sponix2ipfw: the 'please' was a nice touch! :-J
  80. <sponix2ipfw> lumberjack: if you don't like our #LinuxMint-chat family. You are free to go elsewhere
  81. <themachine> So far at least on the surface I'm not seeing a huge difference in LMDE3 and  Debian 10 with cinnamon
  82. <sponix2ipfw> Most of us have used Mint in some capacity. But it is far from a requirement
  83. <lumberjack> sponix2ipfw: and your okay with themachine telling others to go away from Linux Mint?
  84. <themachine> What's so wrong with that?
  85. <themachine> I'm not forcing you to do anything.
  86. <sponix2ipfw> lumberjack: I'm good with recommending whatever may best work for the users
  87. <sponix2ipfw> We all are fine with that
  88. <lumberjack> sponix2ipfw: wow! clown world everywhere..
  89. <themachine> lol
  90. <sponix2ipfw> And most of the documentation we point out is from the Arch Linux wiki lol
  91. <themachine> It seems like synaptic can handle updates too
  92. <themachine> lumberjack: I'm merely trying to understand the reason to use LMDE over Debian with cinnamon
  93. <lumberjack> My daily driver is LMDE3 and I come here to ask about LMDE4 and am told to move to Debian 10, and if I don't like it to simply go elsewhere for my Linux Mint help?
  94. <lumberjack> please pass the crack pipe here!
  95. <lumberjack> use guys are out-of-your minds!
  96. <sponix2ipfw> lumberjack: sure. There is a pretty good Linux Mint help chat on freenode
  97. <themachine> To directly answer your question about LMDE4: It'll be out when it's out
  98. <nameless> have you considered = told to move
  99. <themachine> That's the same answer you'd get if you ask about Mint 19.4
  100. <themachine> or Debian 11
  101. <xmetal> wtf
  102. <sponix2ipfw> Umm.. I'm not smoking crack... I'm smoking Weed
  103. <xmetal> i mean you want what LNDE will be ... adding Cinnamon to Debian 10 seems like the thing to do
  104. <lumberjack> xmetal: my thoughts exactly...
  105. <xmetal> until "LMDE 4 is released"
  106. <themachine> For news on Linux Mint I'd recommend https://blog.linuxmint.com/
  107. <nameless> themachine: the mint tools and newer versions of them and cinnamon
  108. <nameless> (except for kernel upgrades, driver manager, timeshift too I think)
  109. <xmetal> ah timeshift stuff too maybe
  110. <xmetal> forgot about that
  111. <lumberjack> I don't think the Mint team is aware of the level of sell out happening in this chat!
  112. <xmetal> hmm never paid attention to say "Cinnamon in Debian 9" vs "LMDE 3 Cinnamon"
  113. <xmetal> version wise i mean
  114. <lumberjack> offensive and disgusting to say the least!
  115. <xmetal> oh grow up
  116. * You have been kicked from #linuxmint-chat by sponix2ipfw (I've already asked you not to call names)
  117. * Disconnected ()
  118. * Now talking on #linuxmint-chat
  119. * Topic for #linuxmint-chat is: Official Linux Mint Chat Channel | Channel Rules: https://goo.gl/mP1Rz1 - for support use #linuxmint-help | All languages are welcome. No politics. No religion. Safe For Work conversations only.
  120. * Topic for #linuxmint-chat set by Sum1lson18!~Blokey@linuxmint/team/Sum1lson18 (Thu Jun 27 15:21:06 2019)
  121. -ChanServ- [#linuxmint-chat] Welcome to #linuxmint-chat. Channel Rules: https://goo.gl/mP1Rz1. Type /topic to see more. If you need support, state your issue & wait for a response, this may take 5-10 minutes.
  122. <themachine> lumberjack: I just want to say I in no way supported sponix2ipfw's kicking of you
  123. <sponix2ipfw> odd how he hates us so much, But keeps coming back    ;)
  124. <themachine> nameless: you've got me on "other software" but it seems that cinnamon is the same version
  125. <themachine> at least LMDE3 vs Debian10
  126. <nameless> you have to compare debian 9
  127. <themachine> oh right
  128. <lumberjack> sponix2ipfw: the admins above you support what you just did to a Mint user?
  129. <themachine> well, I mean do I though? Since I am on a crusade to get lumberjack to use Debian 10 since LMDE4 isn't out and won't be for who knows how long.
  130. <themachine> lumberjack: Oh please, now you're just trying to instigate something
  131. <lumberjack> themachine: I've used LMDE3 since its release!
  132. <themachine> Ok?
  133. <xmetal> hmm @ if there is a package list so to speak for LMDE? (olnlinee)
  134. <themachine> What does that have to do with anything?
  135. <xmetal> ACK ... @ fingers
  136. <xmetal> online *
  137. <sponix2ipfw> lumberjack: please fill out the appropriate forms and get in touch with them: http://sponix.tk/Downloads/Hurt_Feelings_Report.pdf  http://sponix.tk/Downloads/ButtHurt.png
  138. <themachine> Dang, I must be +o to kick sponix2ipfw
  139. <themachine> sucks
  140. <nameless> xmetal: http://packages.linuxmint.com/ select under release
  141. <xmetal> A) LMDE 4 will be released when it's ready B) LMDE 4 is based on a different version of Debian C) all that was said was gotten at was "if you want to see Cinnamon on the version of Debian LMDE 4 will be based on ...  you can try Debian 10"
  142. <lumberjack> sponix2ipfw: you're a real tough nut aren't you? NOT FUNNY! I'm a LMDE3 user and am being abused here!
  143. * ChanServ gives channel operator status to mtn
  144. <xmetal> ty ... thought it would be there but wasn't sure if that was for LMDE too
  145. <nameless> yep
  146. <xmetal> oh great
  147. <xmetal> mtn is here now :)
  148. <Kutulu> Just the simple fact that they are valid links... yeah... I giggled.
  149. <xmetal> wouldn't want mtn too miss the fun
  150. <xmetal> to *
  151. <themachine> lumberjack: Lucky for you no one cares you're an LMDE3 user
  152. <nameless> we save all the fun for mtn
  153. * mtn never wants to miss the fun
  154. <Minkar> Kutulu: Awesome, let me know how it goes
  155. * mtn looks around for some fun
  156. <xmetal> i am picturing Jurassic Park only "I use LMDE 3" ....
  157. <lumberjack> themachine: you really just said that on a Linux Mint chat?
  158. <Kutulu> Minkar: in process....
  159. <xmetal> "Dodson ... we gott DODSON HERE !... see? .. no one cares"
  160. <themachine> lumberjack: I am still aware of what channel we are in, yes.
  161. <sponix> mtn: lumberjack would like to file a grievance against me .. well all of us not using Mint to start off with
  162. <xmetal> i'd hate to see this guy's reaction if i mentioned arch
  163. <xmetal> (which ... i just did)
  164. <Kutulu> LMAO...
  165. <mtn> sponix: going to be a few in that group :p
  166. <sponix> mtn: lol ... Yeah - we attempted to explain that.. He is pretty hung up on it though
  167. <Minkar> My question is this: How exactly did themachine and sponix2ipfw get half-op status on the OFFICIAL Linux Mint Chat Channel, if they tell people to not use Mint and to go to another distro? That'd be like if Microsoft's official forums had admins there saying "go to Mac OS" or something
  168. <themachine> Minkar: I'm not telling people to do anything. I strongly suggested Debian 10 because LMDE4 is not out.
  169. <sponix> hmm, weed is wearing off .... hmm.. Smoke more weed OR put some Vodka in a glass of Orange Juice ? Life's tough decisions... Any recommendations ?
  170. <xmetal> this is just getting "silly" at this point .. and i dont mean that in a "ha ha" way
  171. <xmetal> what themachine suggested is completely logical
  172. <themachine> Minkar: and I have +h to enforce the rules
  173. <themachine> Suggesting other distros is not against the rules
  174. <xmetal> it was a suggestion
  175. <sponix> themachine: nor is using them :)
  176. <xmetal> "take it or leave it"
  177. * xmetal shrugs
  178. <mtn> Minkar: using mint is not a religion, just a choice of distros. shrug
  179. <lumberjack> Someone who manages these chats will here of this I can assure you of that. Disgusting what is going on in here!
  180. <mtn> lumberjack: several of us are already here.
  181. <sponix> Minkar: because this is unpaid/unfunded ** Volunteer ** help -- We we are allowed to suggest what we feels is best for the situation - period .. both HERE, and in -help
  182. <themachine> lol
  183. <xmetal> someone really wants to "start something"
  184. <nameless> you are incredibly stuck up
  185. <FireCat> Mabye mint is more open then microsoft.   At microsoft they are all about brain washing and is all about them .  Perhaps a mint chat pepole are alla bout trying linux because its linux not just because its mint.
  186. <Kutulu> Disgusting is a bit of an exaggeration isn't?
  187. <sponix>  -- I've never seen such a Linux Nationalist before :P
  188. <xmetal> if you didn't want to try Debian 10... then dont ... and move on ... seems easy enough logic to follow
  189. <themachine> lumberjack: I've got some bad news for you. The people that "managed these chats" are right here in front of you
  190. <sponix> Linux Mint or RIOT
  191. <themachine> DEBIAN OR DD IT ALL TO THE GROUND
  192. <sponix> themachine: Preach it !!   ;)
  193. <lumberjack> No I'm speaking of someone @ Linux Mint
  194. <themachine> Are you now?
  195. <xmetal> i would laugh if you bugged clem and his response was "you can always try Debian 10 for now"
  196. <lumberjack> These channels are to help Linux Mint users!
  197. <sponix> lumberjack: let Clem know we sent you.. Might want to put him on your notify list for when he pops in :)
  198. <themachine> lumberjack: This is a general chat channel
  199. <Kutulu> No... linuxmint-help is for that..
  200. <Minkar> I'd say that "disgusting" is a hyperbole, but the combination of (advocating moving to somewhere else) and (it's not a problem, just RTFM), especially from people here with some official capacity, certainly LOOKS bad for the project, and doesn't give me much confidence at all
  201. <themachine> if you want help with mint then you should join #linuxmint-help
  202. <Kutulu> this is just chat... it can be called compuhypermeganet-chat... it's just chat
  203. <themachine> You won't find me in -help telling people to just change to debian instead of fixing their problem.
  204. <xmetal> ^
  205. <beurs> every linux mint user is a debian user anyway
  206. <Kutulu> ... alltough that would be hilarious!
  207. <jeremyb> Maybe you should visit #ubuntu-offtopic on Freenode, not much different
  208. <sponix> Can we Move on now ?
  209. <lumberjack> this channel is #linuxmint-chat i.e., chat about linux mint
  210. <themachine> lumberjack: Did you read the rules or topic?
  211. <sponix> lumberjack: you are WAY to caught up on that
  212. <xmetal> of  course not
  213. <lumberjack> Official Linux Mint Chat Channel
  214. <themachine> Because it's just a chat channel and the only requirement is "No politics. No religion. Safe For Work conversations only."
  215. <themachine> yeah, emphasis on Chat Channel
  216. <jeremyb> Use the #linuxmint-chat channel for general chat with other users.
  217. <themachine> It's for chatting
  218. <themachine> which is what we are doing
  219. <sponix> We attempt to keep Porno, Politics, and Religion out -- Pretty near everything else is welcome
  220. <jeremyb> forgot hacking
  221. <themachine> Currently we are chatting about Debian 10 being the superior distro
  222. <sponix> Damn..
  223. <sponix> Yeah, and NO Hacking shit either
  224. <sponix> jeremyb: Thanks
  225. <themachine> sponix: Yeah but that's a network rule
  226. <sponix> themachine: well... We still try to follow it ;)
  227. <themachine> I'd sure hope so
  228. <sponix> _try_
  229. <jeremyb> It is #7 https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=224270#rules
  230. <themachine> oh hey look at that
  231. <themachine> apparently I need to re-read the rules
  232. <themachine> OH RULE #8!
  233. <themachine> "Arguing with the moderators in the channel"
  234. <themachine> :)
  235. <jeremyb> We only have ops here, moderators are on the forums
  236. <lumberjack> a chat sponsored by Linux Mint to tell users not to use any flavor of Mint...incredible!
  237. <themachine> lol nice loop hole
  238. <themachine> Absolutely incredible
  239. <mtn> lumberjack: you can stop that now. get another topic or be quiet
  240. <FireCat> oh no,  #8 means i should leave.   I find that just because someone is a mod does not give them the right to be right just because. May as well be a cop as they think the same way.
  241. <sponix> lumberjack: no, you are free to use whatever you want and discuss it here .. Even Windows 10 for all we care ;)
  242. <themachine> heh
  243. <jeremyb> FireCat: #8 means PM after asking
  244. * themachine broke rule 8 and all I got was this stupid +h
  245. <sponix> hmm, wonder if he stays gone
  246. <themachine> I guess I've been banned once too
  247. <sponix> themachine: with his statement.. kinda ironic - I've played cop in real life too :)
  248. <sponix> so yeah, I probably do think the "same way" as a cop
  249. <themachine> If you don't have a warrant then fuck off
  250. <Minkar> lumberjack: FWIW I think that it was a questionable decision to give half-op status in the official LM channel to people who advocate against LM, since it gives the impression that the project is officially saying "go somewhere else, we suck".
  251. <mtn> !mute Minkar
  252. * mintbotd sets ban on m:*!*@SpotChat-87v19c.wi.charter.com
  253. <mtn> Minkar: enough already
  254. <themachine> mtn takin' the gloves off
  255. <mtn> !unmute Minkar
  256. * mintbotd removes ban on m:*!*@SpotChat-87v19c.wi.charter.com
  257. <sponix> mtn: I already booted the other one earlier for having such negative karma. But he came right back with more :)
  258. <lumberjack> Minkar: this whole channel has hit a huge iceberg and sinking...Linux Mint better man the life boats, it going down!
  259. <evinracher> Hi everyone
  260. <mtn> Minkar: now behave and find a new horse to ride
  261. <beurs> hi
  262. <Huanlou> こんにちは、誰もが日本語を話せますか?
  263. <mtn> !kick lumberjack
  264. * You have been kicked from #linuxmint-chat by mintbotd (Channel Rules: https://goo.gl/mP1Rz1)
  265. * Disconnected ()
  266. * lumberjack sets mode +i on lumberjack
  267. * lumberjack sets mode +x on lumberjack
  268. * lumberjack sets mode +R on lumberjack
  269. -InfoServ- *** Message(s) of the Day ***
  270. -InfoServ- [New connect modes] Notice from r00t, posted 16:57 on 09/05/2018:
  271. -InfoServ- We now set usermode +R by default when you connect to SpotChat. This means PMs from unregistered users are blocked. This is a good time to register with SpotChat services if you haven't already. See /msg NickServ help REGISTER   for help with that, or go to the #SpotChat channel.
  272. -InfoServ- [SASL Authentication mechanisms] Notice from r00t, posted 01:24 on 03/05/2015:
  273. -InfoServ- DH-BLOWFISH and DH-AES is no longer supported. If you are using any of these, please switch to either PLAIN or ECDSA-NIST256p-CHALLENGE
  274. -InfoServ- *** End of Message(s) of the Day ***
  275. -SaslServ- Last login from: ~lumberjack@71.65.230.142 on Jan 04 21:51:30 2020 +0100.
  276. * Disconnected ()
  277. * lumberjack sets mode +i on lumberjack
  278. * lumberjack sets mode +x on lumberjack
  279. * lumberjack sets mode +R on lumberjack
  280. -InfoServ- *** Message(s) of the Day ***
  281. -InfoServ- [New connect modes] Notice from r00t, posted 16:57 on 09/05/2018:
  282. -InfoServ- We now set usermode +R by default when you connect to SpotChat. This means PMs from unregistered users are blocked. This is a good time to register with SpotChat services if you haven't already. See /msg NickServ help REGISTER   for help with that, or go to the #SpotChat channel.
  283. -InfoServ- [SASL Authentication mechanisms] Notice from r00t, posted 01:24 on 03/05/2015:
  284. -InfoServ- DH-BLOWFISH and DH-AES is no longer supported. If you are using any of these, please switch to either PLAIN or ECDSA-NIST256p-CHALLENGE
  285. -InfoServ- *** End of Message(s) of the Day ***
  286. -SaslServ- Last login from: ~lumberjack@71.65.230.142 on Jan 04 21:52:09 2020 +0100.
  287. * Disconnected ()
  288. * Disconnected ()
  289. * Now talking on #linuxmint-chat
  290. * Topic for #linuxmint-chat is: Official Linux Mint Chat Channel | Channel Rules: https://goo.gl/mP1Rz1 - for support use #linuxmint-help | All languages are welcome. No politics. No religion. Safe For Work conversations only.
  291. * Topic for #linuxmint-chat set by Sum1lson18!~Blokey@linuxmint/team/Sum1lson18 (Thu Jun 27 15:21:06 2019)
  292. -ChanServ- [#linuxmint-chat] Welcome to #linuxmint-chat. Channel Rules: https://goo.gl/mP1Rz1. Type /topic to see more. If you need support, state your issue & wait for a response, this may take 5-10 minutes.
  293. <adesz> Kutulu: Ahoy! :)
  294.  
  295. * Loaded log from Sat Jan  4 16:05:42 2020
  296.  
  297. * Now talking on #linuxmint-chat
  298. * Topic for #linuxmint-chat is: Official Linux Mint Chat Channel | Channel Rules: https://goo.gl/mP1Rz1 - for support use #linuxmint-help | All languages are welcome. No politics. No religion. Safe For Work conversations only.
  299. * Topic for #linuxmint-chat set by Sum1lson18!~Blokey@linuxmint/team/Sum1lson18 (Thu Jun 27 15:21:06 2019)
  300. -ChanServ- [#linuxmint-chat] Welcome to #linuxmint-chat. Channel Rules: https://goo.gl/mP1Rz1. Type /topic to see more. If you need support, state your issue & wait for a response, this may take 5-10 minutes.
  301. <Minkar> Kutulu: I appreciate all the effort, but I think that I'll just wait until LM 20.0 rolls out with a new Ubuntu base, satisfied with the knowledge that somebody has fixed the issue; until then, I'll just add @server in front of my requests
  302. * themachine will just stick to not using systemd-resolved
  303. <themachine> Although the whole per interface DNS is neat
  304. <jeremyb> Just use /etc/network/interfaces
  305. <themachine> but I also don't see myself needing it
  306. <themachine> jeremyb: True
  307. <sponix2ipfw> Huanlou adesz : this is the place for General chat -- welcome
  308. <Minkar> Kutulu: Does it work if you do: dig -6 hostname.ttl ?
  309. <Huanlou> sponix2ipfw: Ty
  310. <adesz> Who is developer? :)
  311. <themachine> Up to this point I've never had a need for different DNS per interface so it's never even occurred to me
  312. <themachine> adesz: No one
  313. <themachine> wait jeremyb is I think
  314. <orcus> some are ... it depends on adesz
  315. <jeremyb> Not a dev
  316. <themachine> newsflash, jeremyb is not a dev
  317. * ken is now known as Drain
  318. <Minkar> Kutulu: Because that was the other issue
  319. * Drain is now known as Drainplug
  320. <Kutulu> Minkar: I complied from the latest ubuntu source of bind 9.11.4 and the bug was still present. The latest packages from ISC are 9.15. I doubt this will be in LM 20.
  321. <lumberjack> mtn: you kicked me from the chat why?
  322. <Huanlou> Kuja is a main person here then.
  323. <Drainplug> :^)
  324. <mtn> lumberjack: told you to stay off that topic and I meant it
  325. <themachine> rule #8
  326. <lumberjack> mtn: just to be cristal clear, the exact topic?
  327. <Kutulu> Minkar: Couldn't tell you about the IPv6 support as I have it disabled.
  328. <mtn> lumberjack: please don't play dumb. just move along and behave
  329. <Minkar> Kutulu: Thanks. Maybe it'll be fixed in LM 21.0 then :D
  330. <Kutulu> :-)
  331. <sponix2ipfw> lumberjack: current topic is DNS resolution, its methods, fact that it might be partial broken in mint, how to work around it, and so forth
  332. <Huanlou> lumberjack: you speak japanese?
  333. <Kutulu> sponix2ipfw: ... or that it's partial broken in bind9... amirite?!?!
  334. <sponix2ipfw> mtn: did you know that you can CNAME *outside* of your own owned domain name (within the same record) ? it is a new thing the spammers are exploiting, and I just "assumed" that DNS would not allow it (for obvious security concerns)
  335. <themachine> Kutulu: More so that the default behavior dig exhibits is unexpected.
  336. <Minkar> themachine: Again, the consensus is overwhelmingly against that in the bugreport
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