Groot - Today at 12:49 PM
Just having a really stressful day. Blech.
Anyway.
So since we changed up the rooms the Chat has been running super smoothly. There has been no arguments that I'm aware of and Crossroads, LG, Abyss and now Sanctum (which is also stuck to the list now) has been seeing activity every day. With a lot of extra advertising I've been doing, the site is growing. We're getting at least 10 new Account registers every day and its going well. I created a Discord account a looooong time ago because I know there are RPing communities on lots of different platforms and have made accounts on as many of them as I can to build up the Chat. I want people to enter chat and see OOC chat and IC rp at all hours of the day in multiple rooms etc. So I created a Discord account and joined a bunch of RP servers.
The majority of which have 500+ users (which is why they were so easy to find) and am fairly active in two that have at least 1000. One is SFW and all ages the other is NSFW and 18+
I have befriended these people and want to create partnerships with them (they have a view only channel on each where they link their partners).
Getting us on that channel gives us another 2000 RPers that will see our Discord and therefore (thanks to TL's welcome message) see our Chatroom. Discord is great for RP but there's no profile creation and not as many RP useful tools as a chatroom offers. I'm hoping to not only boost the Discord's userbase but also the Chatrooms activity. Unlike most chats I don't want to stick to one platform, I want TL to be a powerhouse of many. An active facebook group, discord, chat, forum etc.
It opens us up to a much larger userbase and of course, brings in a lot more activity. Less boredom for us, much easier to find RP and make friends etc.
As for these Discords with 500+ users... we have less than 100. They are not going to be interested in a partnership with us until we have a larger userbase and more activity.
Right now, we have more users than LG's Discord. I don't want to create partnerships with lots of little Servers because its not that beneficial for us. It helps our users to spread more and find LG. 'They can use both'
Right now, most of the LG'ers do not use the TL Server. Even before this discussion.
I was/am moderating AveJoe anyway because he has taken an interest in the TL Discord and actually chats there while the other LG mods do not.

Groot - Today at 12:56 PM
The TL Discord is getting different moderators to our chat moderators (because their hands are full with chat) so I gave Bunnie and Guat a 'Special' role.
The Special role will allow you to have your own colors (when I finally get around to doing that - really overloaded thus the need for more mods)

Groot - Today at 12:56 PM
And it also allows you access to ALL channels (despite our leveling and reward system). The only thing you wont have is moderation tools.

Groot - Today at 12:57 PM
I only started talking to AveJoe the other day, really. Its all about who is active and seems friendly on the TL server. Its giving me the chance to give other people Moderation responsibilities (since Bunnie, Guat and TK arent getting it)
Anyway. So your Mods get the Special role (which is pretty fancy anyhow)
And you also get a Lost Garden VC and a Lost Garden text channel
And only those with the Lost Garden role can access it.
And its up to AveJoe to distribute that.
Anyway. I pitched the idea to AveJoe (very civilly and fairly, mind you). We actually had a good discussion about it
But he and I were both wary that Ave wouldn't take it well.

Groot - Today at 1:00 PM
Which is why I first spoke to Joe. Averus and I butt heads a lot. Not to be a dick but he is a bit rude and when he gets heated I get heated.
I can't help that I'm human and I feel like a lot of my conversations with him involve me being a punchingbag.
Anyway the only reason Averus could bring to me to not take the offer and create a larger, communal Server for everyone
Was that they like having a place to discuss things I wouldn't like without me seeing. Considering the invite link was publicly distributed there are people there who do show me.
So yes I have seen it.
You would be better off creating a private group DM on Discord to talk about me. :stuck_out_tongue:

Groot - Today at 1:01 PM
So the TL Discord LG channels wouldn't affect your ability to hide from me or not.. because you arent hiding.
Now let me get to the bit about the link

Groot - Today at 1:03 PM
I want the new people I herd in via my advertising efforts to come to TL's Server. You can say people can go to both but in the end, a lot of your people don't use mine and there's no saying that other new people who find yours will choose to be active in mine, rather than yours.
In which case its publicly advertising a competing server. And by that I mean people might go there instead of ours. Particularly new people who have been pulled in from my advertising efforts.
So poaching. Gentle poaching maybe, but poaching all the same.
You can't link TL on TK without getting in trouble.
You can't link TK on RPC without getting in trouble.
Its a rule that is common in every RP community.

Groot - Today at 1:04 PM
And it was fair for me to request that it be removed. I did not ask you guys to close your Server.
I did not tell you guys that if you didn't join my Server you would be banned.
I did not threaten to ban the people who have been publicly slating and slandering me

Groot - Today at 1:05 PM
I did not even give you a time limit to remove the description
Nor have I checked that its been done
So in a way, I've acted a lot more fairly than most Admins would
But I feel like I'm getting treated like Im Hitler.
Picture it this way
You enter a room on TL
'Well we actually just RP on TK.'
Groot - Today at 1:06 PM
Oh? Tk? Whats that?
'Just our Chatroom. I can't link it publicly'
'But I can whisper it to you'
Oh awesome come at me
'-links-'
Person goes there and doesn't really use TL anymore
You get what I mean?

Groot - Today at 1:07 PM
But they might not. Someone who uses our Server actively now could enter your room, find your Discord and choose to go there more instead.
It has the possibility of costing us users and activity. And like I said, no other chats would allow it. I feel like I've been pretty reasonable in that Ive given you guys time to do it

Groot - Today at 1:08 PM
All your people are already there, it just stops new people from entering and finding it now

Groot - Today at 1:08 PM
Meanwhile if you befriend someone and add them on Skype or Discord and then link them
Thats totally fine
I just don't want it happening on my chat.
That's fair, isnt it?
All I was trying to do was create one large, cohesive environment. I get you guys want your own thing and feel safer there. That's fine.
I'm just saying the advertising can't happen anymore.

Groot - Today at 1:10 PM
Yes. If someone who is whispered it tells us 'Oh DL whispered me this'
That is a warning. Like I said, if you befriend someone and message it to them on skype or discord thats fine

Groot - Today at 1:11 PM
But publicly talking about your discord and then whispering newbies the link is not on.
That's just it
=[ The whole point of this site is that we're one big community
You guys had your own thing on TK

Groot - Today at 1:11 PM
You can still have your own thing on TK
Exactly!
Im trying to fix that.

Groot - Today at 1:11 PM
Im not forcing it - You can have your own Discord
Groot - Today at 1:12 PM
You just cant advertise it on my chatroom.
Its really not an unreasonable request.

Groot - Today at 1:17 PM
Your community is wanted. I want us to coexist on the one server. Your people will still have important roles and you will still have the chance to have a tight knit, LG role only community on the VC and text channel.

Groot - Today at 1:18 PM
I feel insulted.
To me it feels like
'We don't like you Groot. We're here because your chat is better than the one we had but we still don't like it, and we don't like you. If something better comes along we intend to leave. We don't want to help the chat flourish. We don't want to be apart of your big community. We want to have our own Discord so we have a safe place to complain about you... even though its publicly listed and a lot of TL users can see it.'
That's kind of how I feel today.

Groot - Today at 1:19 PM
Its almost like despite my hard work and my effort to involve you in our community
You guys are just using me for my chat until something better comes along. Even so, I feel like I've made a fair request and haven't made an effort to police it in any haste.

Groot - Today at 1:20 PM
Thank you.

Groot - Today at 1:23 PM
Thank you. Part of the hike is encouraging more activity and a more cohesive community but another part is continuing to release new updates and keep people interested.

Groot - Today at 1:23 PM
I get that, I do.
You've explained it well. I guess my only rebuff to that is

Groot - Today at 1:24 PM
1. No other chats would permit it and I've been more fair than most. You wouldn't be able to do it elsewhere (except maybe on your TK thing because it wasnt policed by Admin at all).
And
2. As I understand Ave had removed the link to the LG TK thing from the TK forum and no new people were allowed to enter it at all.
You'll still have the chance to welcome new people into your community on the chatroom
And if you befriend them enough that you're adding them to skype or discord, they can still find their way to your Discord

Groot - Today at 1:25 PM
and you're more than welcome to advertise your Discord elsewhere which will draw in people thataway
Not a secret thing
Just an off chat thing.

Groot - Today at 1:28 PM
As you've probably noticed
I don't even look at the Lost Garden
For the most part, I have no idea what goes on in there so I probably wouldn't notice. That said

Groot - Today at 1:28 PM
If a new person asked
And it wasn't just you guys talking about it and then them asking
You could simply say 'We're not really supposed to share that on chat, sorry.'
In which case they might whisper you and you could say 'Id prefer to add you personally on Discord first'
Lets be real
When you enter a chatroom your first question isnt usually 'do you guys have a discord'
Its more likely that they'd befriend you and find themselves on your friendlists
before it occurs to them to ask
unless you guys are talking about it in chat

Groot - Today at 1:34 PM
Wellll to be fair
Every other Discord Server that isnt linked with a chat (which is most) is 'cut off from people' but they draw in new users in other ways.

Groot - Today at 1:38 PM
I guess all we can do is say
'I see your point of view, but this is mine.'
The rule is going to remain as it is. You guys can enjoy your Discord you just can't link it in chat, and I hope people at least appreciate that I haven't been a huge hardass about it... because most other chats would have instabanned, especially with the public slating and slander that went in on your Discord. Considering what now sits in the history of your Discord its definitely not something I want publicly linked for all our users and future newbies to see.

Groot - Today at 1:41 PM
Not necessarily the pastebins
But the things that were said on the chat
Like Averus saying how shit I am and that everyone should leave.
Its basically like if I created a forum post about how 'shit the lost garden is and what a dick Averus is' for every user for ever more to possibly come across it
I wouldn't.
Its not fair and its not nice.
And is all the more reason for me to not allow you guys to link the Discord in the room.

Groot - Today at 1:43 PM
And I am human.
And on a professional level its not a good look for chat.
On a fairness level, I'm not policing you guys speaking your mind about me and the chat
But I can tell you right now in TK's heyday that would have gotten you all a perma.

Groot - Today at 1:45 PM
I was unlikely to allow you to advertise your server publicly on my chat before. Given what's in there now, its a definite no. Maybe a long while in future that decision may change - if TL's Discord grows large enough that I feel yours wont harm it.'
I meant more
Moderators in other places would ban the people who said especially bad things. Like Averus.
But I didn't. I haven't. I wont.

Groot - Today at 1:47 PM
And instead of appreciating that he uses that freedom to continue to throw me under the bus.
I would bet you any day
If I had entered your TK LG chatroom
And complained about the moderators as Ave has complained about me
You guys would have banned me.

Groot - Today at 1:48 PM
I appreciate that.

Groot - Today at 1:53 PM
Ahhh I getcha.

Groot - Today at 1:54 PM
And for the record.. it was Ave that was trying to convince me to post Lord Tina's personal information. TK (the admin) told me not to.

Groot - Today at 1:55 PM
Ave still went ahead and used his skillz to aquire a lot of personal information from Tina which he fed to me
And threatened Tina with

Groot - Today at 1:55 PM
A dude who apparently harassed one of your people and created 60 accounts in two hours to evade ban
Yeah

Groot - Today at 1:59 PM
He fucking hates me.For whatever reason.
We've had two disagreements before
1. Because he constantly complains about the CC people being mean to him when most of them don't know him. He acts like they wont drop the past but he wont drop it either. His attitude has also made a lot of 'new people' (like myself) dislike him so he needs to stop blaming everything on 'the past'.
2. He wanted ombudsmen which was a ridiculous decision at the time because the chatroom had 1 ban, that 1 ban being Custard who was not trying to dispute the ban. ONE DAY we will need Ombudsmen but so far we do not (the userbase is so small and the ban list is tiny). Really the only people that have been banned our outsider spammers and stuff. No one that could dispute their ban or needs to. It came at the suggestion of a girl who wasn't even banned and was not at risk of being banned either.
Since then he and I have had a lot of civil discussions but as we've seen

Groot - Today at 2:02 PM
I wasnt really part of CC at all

Groot - Today at 2:02 PM
And yet I have found his attitude offputting
And Im not the only non CC person who feels that way.

Groot - Today at 2:08 PM
No.
But I gave the instruction with eyes on the future
I wanted to be clear so you couldnt say you werent aware that the rules stretched to whisper if it does indeed happen later down the track

Groot - Today at 2:44 PM
Btw

Groot - Today at 3:13 PM
Not often.
And the issue wouldn't have been made public if you guys hadn't made it public on your server.
There are a lot of people who arent exclusive to LG in there and if everyone is going to be discussing me and my offer and request
I at least wanted to share my side of it.
Even a biased person would have to admit that's fair.

Groot - Today at 3:30 PM
I guess it comes down to confusion - The Lair is one chatroom and one community. You are a room in it. You do not have the right to freely advertise other platforms. I gave you the chance to do it for a little while and herd your main userbase but I am stopping it now to stop you from benefiting from new users I have drawn into the chatroom. No other room on The Lair is permitted to do it either. If the Abyss tried, I'd request that they stopped. It wouldn't be permitted on any other RP chat. I gave you time to remove to remove it and time to stop. I may introduce the paid right to do so in future but as it stands it is not an option right now, especially not with what is currently in your Server and what is likely to be in your Server in future.
I have spent thousands of dollars on The Lair. Thousands.
I have spent thousands of hours on The Lair. Advertising it, encouraging activity, moderating.
If I feel that linking your server may detract from the activity we could gain on ours
I am within my right to request that you don't.
I appreciate the Lost Garden and the people in it
But allowing you guys exemptions from certain rules now
Will only promote further segregation in future
And I'm looking to minimize segregation not build on it.
I hope you guys see that you receive a lot more freedom on TL's platform that you would on most. Especially since we have been working to NSFW freedom (which is mainly because of you guys).