<aday> elleuca, is this a serious comment? > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=659045#c10
<bebot> Bug 659045: normal, Normal, ---, richard, UNCONFIRMED, Please add back lid action configuration
<aday> i honestly can't tell
<andre_> unlikely
<aday> <humour> tags could be useful :)
 or <joke>, maybe
<hadess> aday, the ":D" at the end kind of gives it away...
<aday> hadess, i couldn't work out if he was trying to be serious as well as funny
<elleuca> aday, it was serious, as well as office-runner is a serious solution to "I wanna know what my own computer does when I close the lid and I don't wanna be power user" :P  (<humor>)
<aday> elleuca, just checking :)
<elleuca> aday, anyway that change is something I would like in upstream, it's simple, unobtrusive and gives the idea "developers pay attention to users needs and accept their request without breaking the original design"; IMHO you need this message if you want people will trust changes occurred with 3.x serie (and the ones that will come)
<hadess> elleuca, we don't expose every single setting we have in the UI, and that one won't be an exception
 hadess halfline
<elleuca> hadess, am I saying to expose all settings?
<hadess> elleuca, except that 1) having it in the control-center is a bad way of doing it 2) it doesn't solve the actual use case
 hadess halfline
<aday> elleuca, my view is that what users need is for suspend/resume to work
<aday> they don't need a setting
<hadess> elleuca, you're using it as an excuse of why we should show the settings in the UI
 hadess halfline
<elleuca> hadess, sorry?
<hadess> you're saying "I want to know what my computer will do because i changed that setting"
 hadess halfline
 it's a hidden setting, and just like every other hidden setting, it's not shown in the UI
<aday> elleuca, i fully agree that we need to show that we care about users. i just don't think we need to sacrifice the user experience in order to do that
<aday> it's a different bug ;)
<elleuca> hadess, no, I'm saying "I want to know why my computer gone to suspend and I didn't asked for it"
<hadess> elleuca, you closed the lid, that's what it does when you close the lid
 hadess halfline
<hadess> and i'll add again that adding back the preference in the control center is a crappy way of helping the use cases that were mentioned in the bug report
<elleuca> hadess, the subsequent objection is: "why should I've to install power tools or learn how to use gsettings command line utility in order to make my own hardware acting in the way I want?" (and please note I'm able to use gsettings...)
<aday> elleuca, you shouldn't have to
<hadess> elleuca, why should you even care what it does when you close the lid?
<hadess> everybody uses it to suspend
<elleuca> is this a serious reply?
<hadess> and if we showed "suspend" we would get complaints that it doesn't suspend when you have an external display plugged in
 yes, it's a serious reply
<elleuca> here in Italy about 60% of people vote Berlusconi; should I do it too?
<steph> +1
<hadess> if that's the way you want the conversation to go, just stop talking right now
 i'm not interested
<elleuca> good to know, but I hope GNOME people will not blame Ubuntu for that downstream change to Power panel, Martin just tried to make it more suited to ubuntu users needs
<hadess> bullshit
 if he considered the users needs, he wouldn't be adding it back to the power panel
<hadess> i seriously doubt that any designer had an input into his patch to revert to a 2.32 UI
<aday> elleuca, users needs != what a very small number of users say they want
<hadess> aday, and there's always a difference between what users say they want, and what they're actually trying to achieve
<elleuca> aday, I'm sure about it, but I prefer to relax and listen them from time to time
<aday> elleuca, who isn't listening?
<hadess> elleuca, read the bug again then, and see the use cases
<hadess> actually, "use case", singular
 "i'm moving the laptop from one end to the other, and don't want it to suspend"
<elleuca> hadess, do you prefer a separate bug for "I want to know what my hardware will do and I like to change if it doens't match what I like"?
<hadess> elleuca, yeah, because i can close it as wontfix already
<elleuca> great
 I'll do
<aday> elleuca, do you consider that to be good design?
<elleuca> aday, do you mean the patch from martin or let people know what happens on lid close?
<hadess> "letting people know what happens on lid close"?
 it suspends
 like windows and osx do
<aday> elleuca, > "I want to know what my hardware will do and I like to change if it doens't match what I like"
<elleuca> aday, honestly yes (me and at least other 3 people using GNOME 3 on laptop)
 (while I'm not sure I can label it as "good _design_", more "good behavoir")
<aday> elleuca, do you realise that that goes against the design approach of pretty much all modern devices?
<aday> (following it as a general rule, i mean)
<elleuca> aday, if modern devices are tablets and smartphones, no I didn't; they simply turn off the screen -- and no lid to close :) -- if modern devices are hmm... macbooks? ... I don't know; i never had the ability to test them about suspend behavior
<hadess> laptops for the past ~15 years
<aday> elleuca, i think it's important to differentiate between what you personally want and what is good for gnome
<elleuca> aday, I never said I want it, you know I can use other tools to check and change those setting, please don't put in this way, it's not a personal request
<hadess> and *why* do they want to see what it would do?
 by default it suspends
 the only way it wouldn't suspend is if they changed it
 which means they would likely know how to see what it's set to after changing it
<aday> elleuca, fair enough. my point is that these decisions are designed to make gnome competitive
<elleuca> however, I quit by now, I've to go back to work and it seems me and you are just repeating ourself, see you later :)
<aday> see you :)
<hadess> sure we are, but then again, so are you
 so there you go