DEv convo on IRC about PBS

*** [M2S]Obi_Wan_Kenobi [7cb4f86c@perpetuum-online.com] has joined #perpetuum
*** Topic is: http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:Latest
*** Topic set by GargajCNS!gargaj@dsl54029B3F.pool.t-online.hu [Thu Feb  2 11:03:04 2012]
*** Yoslin Trap_Card1 Dredi Shaedys [NeX]Dazamin [TOG]VexD @GargajCNS [CHAOS]Alexadar tex AgY [WAR]Dan^afk [eHarm]Arga Lilianna [TOG]Sheriff [eHarm]Sundial Texnik Planner_Bot df @TinkerBot herewego mike [M2S]Obi_Wan_Kenobi
*** Channel created on Tue Sep 13 10:24:18 2011
<[M2S]Obi_Wan_Kenobi> evening gents o/
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> hi obi
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> hi Garg
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Devteam decided to make my morning happy)
<GargajCNS> ;)
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> reactor. This is a separate building, but you can’t just place it anywhere. << i cant understand this part
<GargajCNS> no we didnt fix killmail
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> So where i can place a reactor?
<GargajCNS> bah, ukrainians placing reactors again!
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Killmails are so minor in comparsion with PBS
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> HAHAHAHA
<GargajCNS> the key part is
<GargajCNS> "all your buildings need to be in the control range"
<GargajCNS> i.e.
<GargajCNS> there's a radius for each building
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> ok, got it
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> So you decided to make "C&C" system
<GargajCNS> well
<GargajCNS> C&C vs SimCity
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<GargajCNS> cos in C&C you could technically build anywhere as long as you somehow built a path there
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Why not to make it throught nodes like "pylons" in SC or perimeter?
<GargajCNS> that's entirely possible in our system
<GargajCNS> energy transmission nodes
<GargajCNS> i mean it IS node-based
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> I know, i played all C&C games (except last TT, what is fail for C&C)
<GargajCNS> i dunno if we have "repeater" nodes
<GargajCNS> ok
<GargajCNS> we do
<GargajCNS> :)
<GargajCNS> i just asked
<GargajCNS> so technically we do have pylons
<GargajCNS> :)
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Well, if you will implement "transfer" nodes, then defenders will have hard task to maintain all "pylons". Atackers will have opportunity to kill pylons and place their own pylons to capture your buildings. Am i got it right?
<GargajCNS> yes
<Shaedys> Is there a max size to the bases set by the main building?
<GargajCNS> size of what?
<Shaedys> Total number of buildings you can place.
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Its very very good
<Shaedys> Like, with transfer nodes you can indefinitely expand the area you can build in?
<GargajCNS> i dont think there's a hardcap for that
<Shaedys> Aha.
<Shaedys> There's just a usefullness cap on it.
<GargajCNS> or well
<GargajCNS> i dont think there's a hardcap for that RIGHT NOW
<GargajCNS> there might be one
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Planning your empire <<< if you will say that planning will be shared between multiple people (like between all buildres) i will say its a godlike system
<GargajCNS> hahaha
<GargajCNS> well
<GargajCNS> GOOD NEWS
<GargajCNS> the planning system is basically
<GargajCNS> "let's make something like googledocs for corps"
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> F.e. i want to sharte my planwith CEO in realtime
<Shaedys> Well making a big one will make it harder to defend from two pronged attacks, and naturaly they will want to be somewhat concise.
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Very very awesome.
<GargajCNS> i havent implemented it clientside yet
<GargajCNS> but on server side it's a lot like googledocs
<GargajCNS> i.e. people can edit at the same time
<GargajCNS> you can share, revoke rights, etc
<GargajCNS> view rights, edit rights
<GargajCNS> all that jazz
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> <Shaedys> i think if "pylons" will be ballanced, then if you have big village - big village will be very fragile, because you will be not able to plan defence for 100500 pylons. So technically cap will be nott needed imo
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Sounds very very good. Maybe you want to merge corporation bulleteins with this "googledoc" system?
<GargajCNS> i suggested it
<GargajCNS> but it'd be hard to transition
<GargajCNS> so not at the moment
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Bulleteins allready asking themselves to be revamped in future
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Also, i kinda dissapointed about building process... its very simple imo
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> But another parts of a blog are very promising)
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> i guess we will have PTS to test it
<GargajCNS> how do you want more complex building?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Like i sayd before, i want that after you placed blueprint, you will have to haul parts of your building with hauler, drop them into a structure basement (like in speciment SAP, okay)and "weld" it with a help of rivellers
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> It will make industry very complicated, because industrialls will have to build a components for a buildings
<GargajCNS> possible
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Like: "You placed a concreete plate, you placed a first floor with your scarab. Guys welded it. THen you have to haul parts for second floor. Guys will weld it. Then you will have to haul penthouse. And guys will finalise it"
<GargajCNS> ya, got ya
<GargajCNS> as said
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> After i saw scarab, my first impression was that scarab was designed for hauling building blocks
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> It will be epic if scarab will visually haul this parts
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Very important questiion: how you will be able to defend your base against server blob or not convinient TZ???
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<GargajCNS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB1zJU08IiA
<GargajCNS> in moments like this, i'm embarrassed to play video games.
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Okay, i got another idea: to prevent uberblobs and give ability to save your work or to evacuate: it is very important to have shield buildings, what defending territory and consuming shitload of commodities per hour. So if you expecting uberblob, you simply activating a shields and evacuating/reinforcing/whatever
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> What do you think?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> or maybe we should sommon ALF to discuss :D
<GargajCNS> i think that's done as well
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> seriously?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> 0.0
<GargajCNS> i'm not sure
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> i talking to guys, they saying its very very important
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<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Also, as i got it, buildings will be not able to auto-build?
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<DEVCrm> hi
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> hi!
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> \0/
<DEVCrm> NO PMs
<DEVCrm> pls
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> OKAY!
<DEVCrm> :)
<DEVCrm> but i thought you guys have questions so i appeared
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> yes, i will type now. (1 minute)
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> 1. to prevent uberblobs and give ability to save your work or to evacuate: it is very important to have shield buildings, what defending territory and consuming shitload of commodities per hour. So if you expecting uberblob, you simply activating a shields and evacuating/reinforcing/whatever. What do you think?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> 2. Also, as i got it, buildings will be not able to slowly auto-build?
<DEVCrm> 1: good idea, we will have nodes that increase the connected node's resists
<DEVCrm> 2: no auto build
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> about 1: you really must to defend a hard work for small corp, what spended f.e. month to build a base. Dont you want to loose it in 5 minutes to server blob, right?
<DEVCrm> sure that's true
<DEVCrm> the base has a reinforcement mechanism
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> im all ears)
<DEVCrm> and the nodes are just doing their stuff
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> what means "reinforcement mechanism"?
<DEVCrm> if the armor drops below 60% it switches to reinforced
<DEVCrm> for about 12 hours
<DEVCrm> then it switches to vulnerable for 12 more hours
<DEVCrm> and then goto 10
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> "reinforced" means "invincible"?
<DEVCrm> yes
<DEVCrm> otherwise it will be "bring more ppl"
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> All buildings will have this kind of defence?
<DEVCrm> only the base currently
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> "base" means main terminal, or what all non-turrets?
<DEVCrm> main terminal, sorry
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> will be i'm able to repair it during 12h?
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<DEVCrm> yes, that's the point
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> How would you ballance it to prevent "fast repair"? Also, what is risk-vs-revard to build something else except terminal?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> The point is: people will easily loose base to blob but terminal.
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> I'm allready see forum posts: " i spent over the 10kkk to build a base but server blob killed it in 5 minutes! Whydo i need it?" :D
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> How ould you avoid it?
<Mancs> You know, there are some basic ideas. Protect your property with similar amount of automatic defense.
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Will be my defence system effective against server blob?
<Mancs> Terraforming allows you to cut paths, focus fire on "gates".
<Mancs> I doubt any corp will create its base in the middle of a field
<DEVCrm> without any protection
<Mancs> If you have the right mind, you will place your precious stuff in a well protected, unreachable side of the base (mountains) while the enterance will be protected by turrets and so on
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> well, people will gather 1000 grophos, and assault "gates". Main idea of territorial shields: you will be able to turn on defence for short ammount of time.
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Like "perimeter" mode in a perimeter
<DEVCrm> we are talking about the same thing
<Mancs> yeah there's no issue with that, as Crm said with the "increased resist" building.
<Mancs> Did I read that right?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> but CRM said that "increased resist" will be only for one building
<DEVCrm> yes
<Mancs> right
<DEVCrm> your network will be able to protect a certain amount of enemy automatically.
<DEVCrm> you can increase that with player presence
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> I hope you will ballance it to defend against server blob
<DEVCrm> or realtime reconfiguration of the networkkr
<DEVCrm> --> more power to the turrets
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> means: more power-more efficiensy?
<DEVCrm> --> turn on resists
<DEVCrm> no, not like that
<DEVCrm> turrets use energy if they work
<DEVCrm> so you just want to feed them to the max
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<DEVCrm> so they CAN attacj
<DEVCrm> *attack
<DEVCrm> and you can send commands to them
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> I didnt got it: turrets will be in "on" or "off" state, or in "X% of power" state?
<DEVCrm> to modify their behaviour
<DEVCrm> turrets will be like robots
<DEVCrm> they will consume AP
<DEVCrm> as they shoot
<DEVCrm> energy transfer will work on them for example
<DEVCrm> you you can "help" them
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> ok, i got it
<DEVCrm> or neut, or vampire
<DEVCrm> and the fun part is that those energy modules will work on xfer and reactor as well
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Its good)Okay, another question: how would you avoid ultimate defence with 100500 turrets and terraform around it?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> nvm
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> i got it
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> you will have to build alot of reactors
<DEVCrm> well, the abstract problem is the existence of "action per period"
<DEVCrm> like DPS
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> but okay, if youbuild 100500 reactors and 100500 turrets? then what can counter you?
<DEVCrm> well, then you are a busy man feeding all the reactors
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> what means "feeding"?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Reactors will consume energy?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> err
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> hydrobenol?
<DEVCrm> consume material
<DEVCrm> yes
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> very very good
<DEVCrm> you must feed them so they can generate energy *AP*
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> then, i have a question about power and defence of turret?
<DEVCrm> power is balancing
<DEVCrm> no idea
<DEVCrm> but they have a nifty new AI system
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Okay, i got a hint from my brosefs: turrets should be very powerful but very consuming. You got it i hope
<DEVCrm> yes
<[WAR]Dan^afk> wow CRM on irc :D
<[WAR]Dan^afk> hi
<DEVCrm> hi
<DEVCrm> i made a nice summary
<DEVCrm> "reinforcement mechanism" If the armor of the terminal drops below 60% it switches to reinforced. Nothing can hurt it. But repairs will work. The reinforced perios is 12 hours long. This gives some time to the defenders to prepare/evacuate/reorganize. Then it switches to vulnerable for 12 more hours. During this period it can't switch to reinforced -> it can be destroyed. Resulting a heavy loot from the items stored in the base including market, pr
<[WAR]Dan^afk> hmm POS bashing
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<DEVCrm> for the alt corp spamming issue: there is a limit per zone for amount of terminals
<DEVCrm> also per corporation
<DEVCrm> the amount is being discussed
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> In my opinion - the biggest fail in your system could be in a possibility of destroying whole base. Terminal have "reinforce" - thats very good, but the cost of a base could be higher (and logically i think itwil be higher). Thats why you should give very good tools for defence, to ballance risk - vs -revard for building anything but terminals. My guys generated three ideas: invulnerability
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> territoral shield and (or)very powerfull (large ammount of EW power, armor, DPS AP consumption)and (or)"reinforcing" for all structures
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> * (or)very powerfull turret << i meant
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<DEVCrm> what is a territorial shield?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> that was my idea: building what consumes shitload of power, but defending a small ammount of territory
<DEVCrm> defending players or defending nodes?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> everything in range but blocking shooting from inside(i guess)
<DEVCrm> like a big bubble, and all the stuff inside is invulnerable, right?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uYY_taqUYBc#t=281s
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> in this game shield covered a base (or a node) but consumed so much energy, so you cant maintain it permanently
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> yes
<Mancs> Long Cycle time, short effect, invulnerability/increased resists for all nodes in its surrounding. Interesting concept for sure
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> the main idea: to prevent wiping a base, where you spent so much time
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> f.e. what can you do if your turrets was permajammed  with ecm/suppressors?
<DEVCrm> this video is awesome
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> CRM try a game
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> this game is epic: terraforming, nodes, energy
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> You will be attracted
<DEVCrm> this is EXACTLY what we are doing
<DEVCrm> omfg
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> HAHA
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> but without "perimeter" defence, ig uess (what is a main concept of territory)
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> *(what is a main concept of that game)
<DEVCrm> i must go and RL stuff, later i'll be here
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> okay)
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> ty for your time
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Also, what DEVS think to add kinda "PLEX" system in perp? To motivate people to risk, farm, and build bases
<DEVCrm> no problem, thanks for the ideas
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> anytime)
<DEVCrm> plex u mean item VS gametime?
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> yes. You bying time, and you can sell it for nic
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> Each item like it, was bought from your store for $
<DEVCrm> yes. on the todolist for ages
<DEVCrm> later
<DEVCrm> o/
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> 0/
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<[CHAOS]Alexadar> The point is: my think thinks that this "PLEX"s should be released with PBS patch to motivate
<[CHAOS]Alexadar> *i think
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<[CHAOS]Alexadar> without it people will have huge wallets on gamma, and "what to do with them? Why i should risk to maintain my base, what dont bring anything but useless NICs to me"