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Vaccinations - April 2014

Aug 8th, 2014
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  1.  
  2. vaccinations
  3.  
  4. Rick Cooper
  5.  
  6. Message 1 of 25 , May 27 2:54 PM[-- Image: Frame1 --]
  7.  
  8.  
  9.  
  10. View Source
  11.  
  12. Is there a source for DPT singles?
  13.  
  14.  
  15.  
  16. Rick Cooper
  17.  
  18.   New Canaan
  19.  
  20. Dr Kendra Becker
  21.  
  22. Message 2 of 25 , May 27 3:14 PM[-- Image: Frame2 --]
  23.  
  24.  
  25.  
  26. View Source
  27.  
  28. not to the best of my knowledge.....you can get DT but that is
  29. only
  30. for adults I believe
  31. if you are looking for single DOSE vials there are a number of
  32. sources
  33. I use Sanofi Pasteur (DTaP/ daptcel for kids)
  34. Kendra Becker ND, APRN, BC
  35. Mystic, CT
  36.  
  37. DoctorEm@aol.com
  38.  
  39. Message 3 of 25 , May 29 6:00 AM[-- Image:
  40. yui_3_15_0_1_1401386138671_1073 --]
  41.  
  42.  
  43.  
  44. View Source
  45.  
  46. Aventis is recently re-issuing tetanus alone.  Not cheap:  about
  47. $24 per dose.  It is not preserved with mercury, but does have a
  48. small amount of aluminum.  It is supposedly marketed for those
  49. over age 7 but it's the exact same thing as in the pediatric
  50. DPT so most pediatricians I've talked to about this are
  51. completely comfortable using the single T in babies.
  52.  
  53. Cheers,
  54.  
  55. Emily Kane ND LAc
  56.  
  57. Juneau AK
  58.  
  59.  
  60.  
  61. www.DrEmilyKane.com
  62.  
  63. kalliphillips
  64.  
  65. Message 4 of 25 , May 29 3:26 PM[-- Image: Frame3 --]
  66.  
  67.  
  68.  
  69. View Source
  70.  
  71. It's my understanding that the rates of sero-conversion are not
  72. as high with first vaccination 
  73. to tetanus alone. This is why it is combined with diphtheria and
  74. pertussis. The additive 
  75. effect of immune response to D & T increases the immune response
  76. to tetanus. Running a 
  77. titer is recommended to be sure of conversion if tetanus is
  78. given alone.
  79.  
  80. This is from the outer reaches of my memory of immunology, and I
  81. don't have my notes to 
  82. consult, so I beg pardon if I'm mis-remembering.
  83.  
  84. Kalli Phillips ND
  85. NCNM
  86. rainy Eugene, Oregon
  87.  
  88. Kristin Becker, ND
  89.  
  90. Message 5 of 25 , May 29 6:53 PM[-- Image: Frame4 --]
  91.  
  92.  
  93.  
  94. View Source
  95.  
  96. Any ideas on how to help the body/liver excrete the aluminum
  97. after a 
  98. vaccination? Liver support? Bentonite? Hydrotherapy? Kristin 
  99. Becker, St Paul MN
  100.  
  101. Winston Cardwell
  102.  
  103. Message 6 of 25 , May 29 9:55 PM[-- Image: Frame5 --]
  104.  
  105.  
  106.  
  107. View Source
  108.  
  109. Kristen,
  110.  
  111.  
  112.  
  113. For that purpose, I would consider Malic acid – accding to David
  114. Quigg at Doctors Data there is some new research around malic
  115. acid combined with magnesium (possibly human studies) I came up
  116. with this in a quick pubmed search; not sure how much it helps.
  117.  
  118.  
  119.  
  120.  
  121.  
  122. Biol Trace Elem Res. 2007 Winter;120(1-3):257-63.
  123.  
  124. Reduction of aluminum toxicity by 2-isopropylmalic acid in the
  125. budding yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae.
  126.  
  127. Suzuki T, Tamura S, Nakanishi H, Tashiro M, Nishizawa
  128. NK, Yoshimura E.
  129.  
  130. Department of Applied Biological Chemistry, School of
  131. Agricultural and Life Sciences, The University of Tokyo, Yayoi,
  132. Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo 113-5687, Japan .
  133.  
  134. The budding yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae secretes
  135. 2-isopropylmalic acid (2-iPMA), an intermediate in leucine
  136. biosynthesis. Because 2-iPMA binds Al(III) in the culture
  137. medium, it is thought to reduce toxicity by Al(III). The
  138. effects of 2-iPMA and malic acid (MA) on Al toxicity were
  139. investigated in a medium with a low pH and low concentrations
  140. of phosphates and magnesium. The reduction in the growth of S.
  141. cerevisiae observed in the presence of 100 muM Al(III) ions was
  142. relieved more by the addition of 1.0 mM 2-iPMA than by 1.0 mM
  143. MA, indicating that 2-iPMA possesses superior Al(III)-ion
  144. detoxification ability. Investigations using the wild type and
  145. the deltaleu4 and deltaleu9 mutant strains indicated that
  146. secretion of a sufficient level of 2-iPMA was required to
  147. enhance the Al tolerance. It is thought that 2-iPMA secreted
  148. from the yeast cells chelates Al ions and prevents them from
  149. entering the cells, resulting in Al tolerance.
  150.  
  151. 1: J Cell Biochem. 2004 Dec 15;93(6):1267-71.
  152.  
  153. Aluminum decreases the glutathione regeneration by the
  154. inhibition of NADP-isocitrate dehydrogenase in mitochondria.
  155. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  156.  
  157. Murakami K, Yoshino M.
  158.  
  159. Department of Biochemistry, Aichi Medical University School of
  160. Medicine, Nagakute, Aichi 480-1195, Japan .
  161.  
  162. Effect of aluminum on the NADPH supply and glutathione
  163. regeneration in mitochondria was analyzed. Reduced glutathione
  164. acted as a principal scavenger of reactive oxygen species in
  165. mitochondria. Aluminum inhibited the regeneration of
  166. glutathione from the oxidized form, and the effect was due to
  167. the inhibition of NADP-isocitrate dehydrogenase the only enzyme
  168. supplying NADPH in mitochondria. In cytosol, aluminum inhibited
  169. the glutathione regeneration dependent on NADPH supply by malic
  170. enzyme and NADP-isocitrate dehydrogenase, but did not affect the
  171. glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase dependent glutathione
  172. formation. Aluminum can cause oxidative damage on cellular
  173. biological processes by inhibiting glutathione regeneration
  174. through the inhibition of NADPH supply in mitochondria, but
  175. only a little inhibitory effect on the glutathione generation
  176. in cytosol. Copyright 2004 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
  177.  
  178.  
  179.  
  180. Winston Cardwell N.D., L.Ac.
  181.  
  182.  
  183.  
  184. Spherios Medical Centers
  185.  
  186. 5755 North Point Parkway
  187.  
  188. Suite 74
  189.  
  190. Alpharetta, Georgia 30022
  191.  
  192. (678) 218-4230
  193.  
  194. (678) 218-4281 fax
  195.  
  196. www.rethinkyourhealth.com
  197.  
  198.  
  199.  
  200. Wendy Hodsdon
  201.  
  202. Message 7 of 25 , May 30 4:08 AM[-- Image: Frame6 --]
  203.  
  204.  
  205.  
  206. View Source
  207.  
  208. I thought that DPT was not available as singles because the 
  209. immunogenicity of DPT is dependent on Pertussis. In other
  210. words, 
  211. pertussis acts as an adjuvant for Diphtheria and Tetanus. A 
  212. significantly smaller response happens in the absence of
  213. Pertusses. 
  214. That is what my notes say from the seminar "the vaccine
  215. Balancing act" 
  216. that Zwickey and Andrews gave in November of 2005. 
  217. I hope that helps - 
  218. Wendy Hodsdon, ND
  219. www.portlandalternativemedicine.com
  220.  
  221. DoctorEm@aol.com
  222.  
  223. Message 8 of 25 , May 30 4:13 AM[-- Image: Frame7 --]
  224.  
  225.  
  226.  
  227. View Source
  228.  
  229. Hi Wendy,
  230.  
  231. That's interesting -- I never heard of that.  The vaccines used
  232. to be available singly, and again recently as I mentioned in
  233. the previous post Aventis is marketing "preservative free"
  234. Tetanus alone which actually is preserved with a small amount
  235. of aluminum.
  236.  
  237. Emily Kane ND LAc
  238.  
  239. Juneau AK
  240.  
  241.  
  242.  
  243. www.DrEmilyKane.com
  244.  
  245. Dr. Virginia Oram
  246.  
  247. Message 9 of 25 , May 30 4:42 AM[-- Image: Frame8 --]
  248.  
  249.  
  250.  
  251. View Source
  252.  
  253. Tetanus is definitely available singly.  My colleague at my
  254. office uses it all the time.  It is the only vaccine he gives.
  255.  
  256. Multi-dose vials always have a preservative - mercury or
  257. aluminum.  I don't think the aluminum is any better.  If one
  258. choses to vaccinate, the single vaccines with no preservatives
  259. are best, I believe.  I think they are available, it is more of
  260. a question of whether their MD is willing to order the single
  261. dose vial (more expensive & possibly a hassle for them to
  262. order).
  263.  
  264. Sanofi Pasteur makes our tetanus vaccines.
  265.  
  266. Virginia Oram, ND
  267.  
  268. virginia@...
  269.  
  270. 400 East 2nd Avenue, Suite 105
  271.  
  272. Eugene, Oregon 97401
  273.  
  274. 541.343.2384 phone
  275.  
  276. 541.485.3602 fax
  277.  
  278. www.DrOram.com
  279.  
  280. Vibrant health is a Natural Path Away!
  281.  
  282. kimberlylandino
  283.  
  284. Message 10 of 25 , Mar 17, 2011[-- Image: Frame9 --]
  285.  
  286.  
  287.  
  288. View Source
  289.  
  290. Hello Fellow NDs-
  291.  
  292. I have a patient who is choosing to vaccinate her baby ( I wish
  293. she wouldn't...) who already received the HepB after birth last
  294. week and she would like for her baby to receive less
  295. vaccinations at one time in the near future.
  296. Any NDs in the Phoenix area who can refer me to an MD who gives
  297. less vaccinations at once would be helpful.
  298.  
  299. Thanks!
  300.  
  301. Kimberly Landino, ND
  302. Tempe, AZ
  303.  
  304. drdeanna
  305.  
  306. Message 11 of 25 , Mar 30[-- Image: Frame10 --]
  307.  
  308.  
  309.  
  310. View Source
  311.  
  312. Hi All,
  313. With the recent outbreaks of measles in NY and California, I am
  314. wondering what people are suggesting to their patients as far
  315. as vaccinations.  I have always been supportive of not
  316. vaccinating, but last summer when my daughter had pertussis, I
  317. started questioning it.  If someone gets measles and ends up
  318. with encephalitis, the consequences of that can be life long. 
  319. 30% of measles cases develop complications.  (In the recent
  320. outbreak in California, about 1/3 ended up in the hospital) 
  321. What about if you end up in the hospital from measles and then
  322. develop another infection.  These infections are all getting
  323. more virulent.  They are mutating, not only due to vaccinating,
  324. but due to GMOs and toxins in the environment.  There are no
  325. ways to get away from these things.  Also, living in lyme
  326. country, so many have a weakened immune system due to lyme and
  327. associated diseases and don't know it.  Anyway, just wanted to
  328. hear other thoughts.  
  329. Deanna Berman, ND, CM
  330. Ithaca, NY
  331.  
  332. greendoc61
  333.  
  334. Message 12 of 25 , Mar 30[-- Image: Frame11 --]
  335.  
  336.  
  337.  
  338. View Source
  339.  
  340. HI Dr. Deanna, 
  341.  
  342. I think this is a topic we need to have a serious
  343. profession-wide discussion about. I was just talking with it
  344. about a colleague about starting a thread on natchat.  I was a
  345. geolopgy major before going to ND school and have been peak oil
  346. aware for going on 30 years now.  I strongly believe the future
  347. will not be like the past: we are facing staggering economic,
  348. environmental and energy challenges.  There is even a small
  349. movement amongst allopaths who recognize these threats to
  350. conventional medicine. You can educate yourself here at these
  351. websites;
  352. www.peakprosperity.com (watch the crash course)
  353. or http://www.postpeakmedicine.com/.
  354.  
  355. Long story short: we can no longer rely on herd immunity to
  356. protect our unvaccinated children.  And it is hard to find wild
  357. cases to expose children to and an appropriate time so they can
  358. have life long immunity. We have a generation of mothers who,
  359. even if they breastfed, do not have high Ab titers as they
  360. never had the diseases.  I think our future will see a
  361. breakdown of current vaccine practices and these now uncommon
  362. UCD's will become "usual" again.  I choose to recently have my
  363. 15 year old son vaccinated with MMR.  
  364. I was hoping before now we could expose him to a case and he
  365. could have the disease, but no such luck. Who knows what kind
  366. of medical care will be available 20 years from now?  And these
  367. childhood diseases can be more devastating as an adult.  I also
  368. had him vaccinated with DPT several years back when we had an
  369. outbreak of pertussis. Our family regularly associated with
  370. friends with newborn infants and I felt morally and ethically
  371. moved to not be the weak link that could possibly transmit
  372. pertussis to another. 
  373.  
  374. Mind you, my son got no vaccinations for the first 5 years of
  375. his life and was breastfed 4 years.  I had measles, mumps,
  376. rubella and chickenpox as a kid in the 60s.  He had chickenpox
  377. when he was 6, so covered there. We also had him vaccinated for
  378. polio at 7 when we were doing some international travel and
  379. there was the possibility of encountering wild polio. He is
  380. currently healthy as a horse.  I just felt it would be
  381. irresponsible to send him out in to an uncertain future without
  382. giving him some chance of immunity, even if imperfect, but tried
  383. to do it so his immune system could handle in an appropriate way
  384. rather than follow the CDC schedule.  
  385.  
  386. I would love to hear what other NDs with kids are doing, as well
  387. as for patients in their practice. I would also love to start a
  388. dialogue about peak medicine, but that is another thread.  
  389.  
  390. Looking forward to hearing all the wisdom out there, this is
  391. just the path I have negotiated so far. 
  392. Claire Green, ND
  393. Santa Rosa, CA
  394.  
  395. Kristin Cox
  396.  
  397. Message 13 of 25 , Mar 31[-- Image: Frame12 --]
  398.  
  399.  
  400.  
  401. View Source
  402.  
  403. I would appreciate a constructive discussion about this, though
  404. I know there are strong feelings on both sides.  My daughter is
  405. 10 years old.  She was breast fed for 2.5 years and is very
  406. healthy.  She had not taken an antibiotic until this winter
  407. when I went out of town and she got Pertussis.  It was no big
  408. deal at all for her, and now she has permanent immunity (of
  409. course, I know that I am obligated to keep her away from more
  410. vulnerable infants).  Most of her school classroom had the same
  411. cough, though only the unvaccinated children were tested for
  412. Pertussis.    
  413.  
  414. My intention was not that she benefit from herd immunity and be
  415. protected from getting these illness'.  I wanted her to get
  416. these illness' as a healthy young child when they would affect
  417. her less.  Though it is difficult to contract these illness'
  418. these days.  I tried several times to inoculate her with
  419. varicella and the most I got was one pock.  I hope she has had
  420. the chickenpox and is now immune, but I am not convinced.  
  421.  
  422. Now that she is 10 and hasn't had most of these illness', do I
  423. vaccinate her now, or not?  Her pediatrician recommended
  424. reading Dr. Sears vaccine book and I did.  It actually
  425. convinced me not to vaccinate her since the risks of her
  426. getting these illness are so small now.  I did learn something
  427. that concerned me and that was that giving the MMR after
  428. puberty significantly increases risk for RA.  So if you are
  429. going to vaccinate for MMR it should be done at age 10, before
  430. puberty. 
  431.  
  432. If you haven't read An Epidemic of Absence, by Moises
  433. Velasquez-Manoff, you should.  It doesn't address vaccine
  434. preventable illness and vaccines as much as parasites and other
  435. environmental bacteria, but this is my main concern with
  436. vaccines is the unintended, long-term consequences of not
  437. contracting these infections as children.  
  438.  
  439. Thank you.
  440.  
  441. Kristin Cox
  442. Juneau, AK
  443.  
  444.  
  445.  
  446. Emily Kane
  447.  
  448. Message 14 of 25 , Mar 31[-- Image: Frame13 --]
  449.  
  450.  
  451.  
  452. View Source
  453.  
  454. Kristin
  455.  
  456. I vaccinated Katherine with MMR mostly so she could not possibly
  457. expose a future conception to Rubella, before she menstruated.
  458. She also got pertussis the disease 2 years ago and the most
  459. helpful remedy, though her cough did last 100 days, was the
  460. salmon DNA Mucolyxir Torrey Smith wrote into NatChat about. I
  461. also gave Katherine the Gardasil series after much deliberation
  462. because Rick Marnelli died of HPV throat cancer and Pam Snider
  463. and John Weeks both nearly died of it. Before we travelled to
  464. Europe together for the first time when she was 11 I gave her
  465. polio vaccine. She has also had tetanus alone at age 18 months
  466. and a booster at age 11. That's it.  To
  467.  
  468. www.DrEmilyKane.com
  469.  
  470. www.naturopathic.org
  471.  
  472. "Let your highest aspiration organize your life."
  473.  
  474. Emily Kane
  475.  
  476. Message 15 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image: Frame14 --]
  477.  
  478.  
  479.  
  480. View Source
  481.  
  482. Sorry sent before signing and trimming
  483.  
  484. Emily Kane ND
  485.  
  486. just returning from PRP/ozone training :)
  487.  
  488. www.DrEmilyKane.com
  489.  
  490. www.naturopathic.org
  491.  
  492. "Let your highest aspiration organize your life."
  493.  
  494. Michelle Simon
  495.  
  496. Message 16 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image: Frame15 --]
  497.  
  498.  
  499.  
  500. View Source
  501.  
  502. Hi Clare,
  503.  
  504. I appreciate your position.  The AANP Scientific Affairs
  505. Committee has been discussing this topic for the past year.
  506. There is a large evidence base and vaccination technology is
  507. always changing as is epidemiology data and our understanding
  508. of the immune system.  My question to you, and others, is what
  509. would be the best venue for a profession wide discussion on
  510. vaccination?  Some ideas are a conference session, a
  511. preconference summit on the topic, several online continuing
  512. education modules, etc.  What do you think would best serve us
  513. all?
  514.  
  515.  
  516.  
  517. Thanks for your input on this important topic.
  518.  
  519. Regards,
  520.  
  521. Michelle
  522.  
  523. Michelle A Simon PhD ND 
  524.  
  525. drdeanna
  526.  
  527. Message 17 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image: Frame16 --]
  528.  
  529.  
  530.  
  531. View Source
  532.  
  533. It would be great if we could reach as many people as possible. 
  534. What if we had a webinar series with a couple of speakers and
  535. then an online discussion after.  This way it would all be
  536. recorded and if people were not aware of it happening, but want
  537. to join in or read after it already happened, that would be
  538. possible.  We could set up a yahoo group just for vaccination
  539. discussions if there was enough interest.  We could also expand
  540. to discussions of immune system insults due to environmental
  541. toxins, not just vaccinations and the increase in antibiotic
  542. resistant infections. 
  543. Deanna Berman, ND, CM
  544. Ithaca, NY
  545.  
  546. Amanda Richardson-Meyer
  547.  
  548. Message 18 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image:
  549. yui_3_15_0_1_1401386138671_1332 --]
  550.  
  551.  
  552.  
  553. View Source
  554.  
  555. Kristin,
  556.  
  557. How about checking her titers?
  558.  
  559. Amanda Richardons-Meyer, ND
  560. Corvallis Naturopathic
  561.  
  562. Corvallis, OR
  563.  
  564. Eric Blake
  565.  
  566. Message 19 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image: Frame17 --]
  567.  
  568.  
  569.  
  570. View Source
  571.  
  572. That is a great question Michelle and a very good idea for such
  573. a very complicated topic
  574.  
  575. I wouldn't think this forum is the place for organized evolution
  576. of a policy or position. Great place for chatting and hashing
  577. through experience and ideas, but not for more formal positions
  578. to develop.  It is a topic that we need to evaluate in a larger
  579. and more meaningful context that has a variety of positions
  580. that need be represented.  It certainly is not an either /or
  581. ideological position for a lot of us anymore
  582.  
  583. Dr. Eric Blake
  584. Naturopathic Physician and Diplomate of Acupuncture
  585.  
  586. J. Claire Green
  587.  
  588. Message 20 of 25 , Apr 1[-- Image: Frame18 --]
  589.  
  590.  
  591.  
  592. View Source
  593.  
  594. I think Natchat/yahoo group not an ideal forum for this topic. 
  595. I do think a webinar (with pharmacy CME's!) probably the best
  596. forum. 
  597. I did a search on pubmed and found conflicting research..isn't
  598. that always the case!
  599.  
  600. fully vaccinated as children males get orchitis
  601. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24655811
  602.  
  603. recently vaccinated males get orchitis
  604. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20085834
  605.  
  606. unvaccinated male adolescents makes get orchitis
  607. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100330082722.htm
  608.  
  609. I would be interested in how ABO types effect immunity or
  610. increase risk of complications.
  611.  
  612. Also, another topic I hope the AANP is looking into is the
  613. general topic of Peak Medicine or the future of medicine in an
  614. energy constrained world where standards of care decline. 
  615.  
  616. J. Claire Green, N.D.
  617. greendoc61@...
  618. NPI #1679916084
  619. California License #ND-215
  620.  
  621. 707-490-7053 cell
  622. 707-544-1362 home
  623. Santa Rosa, CA 95404
  624.  
  625. drdougcutler
  626.  
  627. Message 21 of 25 , Apr 2[-- Image: Frame19 --]
  628.  
  629.  
  630.  
  631. View Source
  632.  
  633. I agree with Eric.
  634.  
  635. Is the goal of the AANP to change the current position on
  636. vaccines? And other than quackwatch.org is there another source
  637. for the position?
  638.  
  639. Regards,
  640.  
  641. Doug Cutler, ND
  642.  
  643. Southfield, MI
  644.  
  645. O: 248-663-0165
  646.  
  647. www.cutlerintegrativemedicine.com
  648.  
  649. jacobschor
  650.  
  651. Message 22 of 25 , Apr 2[-- Image: Frame20 --]
  652.  
  653.  
  654.  
  655. View Source
  656.  
  657. Doug,
  658.  
  659. I can't speak for the entire AANP board but from my corner of
  660. the universe, it appears that many of the thoughts regarding
  661. vaccines I left school with were formulated in the late 1800s
  662. and somehow preserved and handed down to us intact.  I recently
  663. wrote a short review for the Townsend Letter (I should check if
  664. it's been printed yet, i've got it posted on our clinic website
  665. though and will find the link:
  666.  http://denvernaturopathic.com/on-specificeffectsofvaccines.htm )
  667. on the non-specific effects of vaccinations.  I won't detail
  668. that information here, but the bottom line is the action of
  669. vaccines is complex and we have done a lousy job of keeping up
  670. with the data.  My knee-jerk reaction is to distrust them, to
  671. see the entire agenda as a conspiracy and not believe anything
  672. I'm told or read.  Yet in writing this article I was surprised
  673. by some of the fringe benefits vaccinations trigger in immune
  674. function and suspect we should be taking advantage of them
  675. rather than avoiding some of them.
  676.  
  677. I think it's time that we look at the topic afresh and if
  678. Michelle Simon et al can provide some decent up to date
  679. information, I'd like to get some new perspective on the topic.
  680.  I think as everyone has said so far that nat-chat isn't the
  681. correct forum.  I too am thinking of webinar in combination
  682. with print articles in NMJ (I'm forever looking for material)
  683. that gives us Rx CE (I'm always looking even harder to get
  684. those stupid Rx hours.).
  685.  
  686. drdougcutler
  687.  
  688. Message 23 of 25 , Apr 3[-- Image:
  689. yui_3_15_0_1_1401386138671_1422 --]
  690.  
  691.  
  692.  
  693. View Source
  694.  
  695. Thanks Jacob, I always enjoy your reads and perspective.
  696.  
  697. So correct me if I am wrong, it sounds like the AANP is indeed
  698. looking to come up with a new/updated position on vaccines? If
  699. webinars and articles will be the preferred route for that
  700. goal, maybe we can continue to add the possible topics on
  701. NatChat with both sides of the debate?
  702.  
  703. Personally, I would like to see a topic challenging the entire
  704. concept of vaccines without dismissing it as a "conspiracy".
  705. With that challenge, facts laid out that can obviously be
  706. debated as with any study, expert opinion, etc. But at least
  707. with the final goal (of that challenge) in not giving vaccines
  708. an automatic free pass. To question what we know and don't know
  709. and if we really don't know what we claim to know. To look at
  710. each individual ingredient (thimerosal, aluminum, formaldehyde,
  711. MSG, phenoxyethanol, antibiotics, etc) and why as NDs we would
  712. never allow these toxic ingredients to be in patient's
  713. supplements, food and water - yet we allow them in vaccines? To
  714. discuss why this is so and why generally, there aren't concerns
  715. with these toxic ingredients? 
  716.  
  717. To discuss how we as NDs and as a population see a news story
  718. about a scary outbreak (which really isn't an outbreak) and
  719. then come on NatChat wondering what to do about it. To look at
  720. ways to treat childhood diseases with naturopathic medicine
  721. when needed. To look at ways to improve vaccines which really
  722. are outdated and archaic with the above toxic ingredients and
  723. look for safer alternatives that will help "stimulate" the
  724. immune response or just continue to add a booster to a booster
  725. to a booster. To discuss if "first do no harm" is more
  726. important than "prevention" or vice versa and if vaccines
  727. really even fit in those categories.
  728.  
  729. And lastly, I would like to see a part of the topic to properly
  730. train docs (who vaccinate) on how they should prepare their
  731. patients for the above toxic ingredients by first addressing
  732. genetic polymorphisms, nutritional deficiencies, food
  733. allergies/sensitivities and parent's toxic burden before
  734. conception. That way, I won't have to continue to see vaccine
  735. injured patients who are very difficult in recovering and
  736. supposedly don't exist in our society.
  737.  
  738. Regards,
  739.  
  740. Doug Cutler, ND
  741.  
  742. Southfield, MI
  743.  
  744. O: 248-663-0165
  745.  
  746. www.cutlerintegrativemedicine.com
  747.  
  748. Kristin Cox
  749.  
  750. Message 24 of 25 , Apr 5[-- Image: Frame21 --]
  751.  
  752.  
  753.  
  754. View Source
  755.  
  756. Emily, MMR is the one that I think of for my daughter, but then
  757. I think that her chances of getting RA (increased risk from MMR
  758. vaccine) is probably better than getting MMR while she's
  759. pregnant (in the US).  
  760.  
  761. Also, don't you need Pertussis to make the diptheria and tetanus
  762. effective?
  763.  
  764. I have considered checking her titers.  I'll do it eventually
  765. and before vaccinating her for varicella.  
  766.  
  767. Kristin Cox
  768.  
  769. Juneau, AK
  770.  
  771. Anne Van Couvering
  772.  
  773. Message 25 of 25 , Apr 5[-- Image: Frame22 --]
  774.  
  775.  
  776.  
  777. View Source
  778.  
  779. nicely said, Doug. 
  780.  
  781. Anne Van Couvering, ND, LMT, CNS
  782.  
  783. (917) 653-7406
  784.  
  785. annevanc@...
  786.  
  787. "It's only work if you'd rather be doing something else."  -
  788. Abigail Van Buren (Dear Abby)
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