Untitled


MARTY NEMKO
NEW AND I BELIEVE POTENT IDEAS ABOUT CAREER, EDUCATION, MEN'S AND BOYS' ISSUES, THE LIFE WELL-LED, AND IMPROVING THE WORLD.

OTHER BLOGS I LIKE


Freakonomics
In Case of Rain
15 hours ago

Alexandra Levit
Are Women Catching Up To Men? Not Exactly.
20 hours ago

Ben Casnocha
Mexico’s New President and the War on Drugs
1 day ago

Guy Kawasaki: How to Change the World
10 Things You Can Learn From the Apple Store
3 months ago
SUBSCRIBE VIA EMAIL

Enter your email address:


ABOUT ME


MARTY NEMKO
I am working like hell to avoid becoming a has-been who hasn't quite been. I still love being a career coach and host of Work with Marty Nemko on KALW-FM, a National Public Radio affiliate in San Francisco. But I've also been doing a lot of thinking and writing about how to improve the world. Those ideas are distilled in my new book, What's the Big Idea? 39 reinventions for a better America. Also, I am directing an initiative to bring dream-team-taught online courses into the classroom. Hundreds of my columns and articles plus an archive of my radio show are free on www.martynemko.com. If you'd rather email me than post your comments on this blog, my email address is mnemko@comcast.net.
VIEW MY COMPLETE PROFILE
Lijit Search
TUESDAY, JUNE 16, 2009

"What it's Like to Teach Black Students?"
Despite almost 50 years of large and accelerating efforts to improve the school achievement of African-American students, the gap between their achievement and that of whites and Asians remains about as large as ever.

Yet proposals for what to do about it are basically unchanged: Spend more money and divert existing money to reduce class size and train teachers better, have more students take a rigorous college prep curriculum, work on improving self-esteem, have high expectations, eliminate ability-grouped classes, use cooperative-learning techniques, and reassign top teachers to schools with a high percentage of African-American students.

I have become especially doubtful about whether those approaches will work better in the future than they have in the past when I read this report from the trenches. (I have added boldface to the previous sentence after having posted the essay because some commenters, despite the essay's byline, think I wrote it.) Usually, we hear only from politicians and education leaders (who also are politicians) spouting lofty rhetoric. Occasionally, we hear of a promising program, but which never turns out to be scalable. Or we see a Hollywood movie about some amazing teacher.

We rarely, however, hear from more typical teachers who, day to day, teach low-achieving African-American kids. So it was with interest that I read this truly depressing account from a teacher. The essay is long but I believe worth your time.

The essay does make me feel uncomfortable because, while it presents an eye-opening report from the trenches, it is just one person's report and a more extreme one than I would have issued when I taught in a school with many African-American students. Also, while the author made passing mention that not all Blacks behaved as he described, those comments felt, to me, too parenthetical. Of course, a good number of Black students are high-achieving and motivated.

But I decided to post this teacher's essay for the following reason. The much-needed women's movement was triggered not just by measured academic tomes but also by passionate statements that, though often excessively bashing of men, shone powerful light on women's plight. Similarly, I believe we need to hear passionate--even if frustrated and overly drawn--reports on this issue from front-line workers .

For decades, we've certainly heard plenty lofty rhetoric from education leaders and academics yet the achievement gap remains and little new is being proposed. I hope that my posting Jackson's essay will make a small contribution toward a more full-dimensioned view of the problem, a response to Attorney General Eric Holder's calling us "a nation of cowards about race," and thus in turn, a step toward identifying more promising approaches, and not be used to justify racist behavior toward African-Americans. That is the last thing I want. We must judge people as individuals, on the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

After you read this essay, I hope you'll post your thoughts on what if any implications you believe this has for what we should do differently to better serve the needs of African-American kids, their non-African-American classmates, and in turn, the nation as a whole.

Update, July 4, 2009: I have reviewed the over 150 comments on this essay, updated my knowledge of the research on what works in reducing the racial achievement gap, and drafted a plan for doing so. Here's the link.

Update, July 26, 2009. In a separate post, I have collected the most interesting quotes from the now almost 400 comments. I must say that the more of those quotes I read, the more amazed I am. Although it would take you an hour or so to read that distillation, I do believe it's worth your reading. And I welcome your benevolently derived comments, especially your thoughts on ethical, effective approaches to the achievement gap.

What is it Like to Teach Black Students?

by Christopher Jackson

Until recently I taught at a predominantly
black high school in a southeastern
state.

The mainstream press gives a hint of
what conditions are like in black schools,
but only a hint. Expressions that journalists
use like “chaotic” or “poor learning
environment” or “lack of discipline” do
not capture what really happens. There
is nothing like the day-to-day experience
of teaching Black children and that is
what I will try to convey.

One of the most immediately striking
things about my students was that so many of them were
were loud. They had little conception of
ordinary decorum. It was not unusual
for five students to be screaming at
me at once.

It did no good to try to quiet them and
white women were particularly inept at
trying. I sat in on one woman’s class as
she begged the children to pipe down.
They just yelled louder so their voices
would carry over hers.

So many of them seemed to have no conception of waiting for
an appropriate time to say something.
They would get ideas in their heads and
simply had to shout them out. I might be
leading a discussion on government and
suddenly be interrupted: “We gotta get
more Democrats! Clinton, she good!”
The student may seem content with that
outburst but two minutes later, he would
suddenly start yelling again: “Clinton
good!”

It was not uncommon for 15
boys to swagger into a classroom,
bouncing their shoulders and jiving back.
They were yelling back and forth, rapping 15 different sets of
words in the same harsh, rasping dialect.
The words were almost invariably
a childish form of boasting: “Who got
dem shine rim, who got dem shine shoe,
who got dem shine grill (gold and silver
dental caps)?” The amateur rapper often
ends with a claim—in the crudest
terms imaginable—that all womankind
is sexually devoted to him. For whatever
reason, many of my students would often groan
instead of saying a particular word, as in,
“She suck dat aaahhhh (think of a long
grinding groan), she f**k dat aaaahhhh,
she lick dat aaaahhh.”

So many black girls dance in the hall, in the classroom,
on the chairs, next to the chairs, under
the chairs, everywhere. Once I had to take a
call on my cell phone and stepped
outside of class. I was away about two
minutes but when I got back,
girls had lined up at the front of the
classroom and were convulsing to the
delight of the boys.

Blacks, overall, are the most directly critical
people I have ever met: “Dat shirt stupid.
Yo’ kid a bastard. Yo’ lips big.” Unlike
whites, who tread gingerly around the
subject of race, Blacks can be brutally to
the point. Once, I needed to send a student
to the office to deliver a message. I
asked for volunteers, and suddenly you
would think my classroom was a bastion
of civic engagement. Thirty hands
shot into the air. I picked a light-skinned
boy to deliver the message. One
very dark student was indignant: “You
pick da half-breed.” And immediately
other Blacks take up the cry, and half
a dozen are screaming, “He
half-breed.”

For decades, the country has been
lamenting the poor academic performance
of Blacks and there is much to
lament. There is no question
that many Blacks come to school with a
serious handicap that is not their fault.
At home they have learned a dialect that
is almost a different language. They
not only mispronounce words; their
grammar is so often wrong. When a Black
wants to ask, “Where is the bathroom?”
he may actually say “Whar da badroom
be?” Grammatically, this is the equivalent
of “Where the bathroom is?” And
this is the way they speak in high school.
Students write the way they speak, so
this is the language that shows up in
written assignments.

It is true that some whites face a
similar handicap. They speak with
what I would call a “country” accent
that is hard to reproduce but results in
sentences such as “I’m gonna gemme
a Coke.” Some of these country whites
had to learn correct pronunciation and
usage. The difference is that most whites
overcome this handicap and learn to
speak correctly; many Blacks do not.

Most of the Blacks I taught simply
had no interest in academic subjects. I
taught history, and students would often
say they didn’t want to do an assignment
or they didn’t like history because it was
all about white people. Of course, this
was “diversity” history, in which every
cowboy’s Black cook got a special page
on how he contributed to winning the
West, but Black children still found it
inadequate. So I would throw up my
hands and assign them a project on a
real, historical black person. My favorite
was Marcus Garvey. They had never
heard of him, and I would tell them to
research him but most of them never did. They
didn’t care and they didn’t want to do
any work.

Anyone who teaches Blacks soon
learns that they have a completely different
view of government from whites.
Once I decided to have students write about one thing
the government should do to improve
America. I gave this question to three
classes totaling about 100 students,
approximately 80 of whom were Black.
My white students came back with
generally conservative ideas. “We
need to cut off people who don’t work,”
was the most common suggestion.
Nearly every Black gave a variation on
the theme of “We need more government
services.”

My students had only the vaguest
notion of who pays for government
services. For them, it was like a magical
piggy bank that never goes empty. One
Black girl was exhorting the class on
the need for more social services and I
kept trying to explain that people, real
live people, are taxed for the money to
pay for those services. “Yeah, it come
from whites,” she finally said. “They
stingy anyway.”

“Many Black people make over
$50,000 dollars a year and you would
also be taking away from your own
people,” I said.

She had an answer to that: “Dey
half breed.” The class agreed. I let the
subject drop.

Many Black girls are perfectly happy
to be welfare queens. On career day, one
girl explained to the class that she was
going to have lots of children and get fat
checks from the government. No one in
the class seemed to have any objection
to this career choice.

Surprising attitudes can come out in
class discussion. We were talking about
the crimes committed in the aftermath of
Hurricane Katrina and I brought up the
rape of a young girl in the bathroom of
the Superdome. A majority of my students
believed this was a horrible crime
but a few took it lightly. One Black boy
spoke up without raising his hand: “Dat
no big deal. They thought they is gonna
die so they figured they have some fun.
Dey jus’ wanna have a fun time; you
know what I’m sayin’?” A few Black
heads nodded in agreement.

My department head once asked all
the teachers to get a response from all
students to the following question: “Do
you think it is okay to break the law if it
will benefit you greatly?” By then, I had
been teaching for a while and was not
surprised by answers that left a young,
liberal, white woman colleague aghast.
“Yeah” was the favorite answer. As one
student explained, “Get dat green.”

How the world looks to Blacks
One point on which most Blacks agree
is that everything is “racis’.” This is
one message of liberalism they have
absorbed completely. Did you do your
homework? “Na, homework racis’.”
Why did you get an F on the test? “Test
racis’.”

I was trying to teach a unit on British
philosophers and the first thing the students
appeared to care about Bentham, Hobbes,
and Locke was “Dey all white! Where da
black philosophers’?” I tried to explain
there were no Blacks in eighteenth century
Britain. You can probably guess
what they said to that: “Dat racis’!”
One student accused me of deliberately
failing him on a test because I
didn’t like Black people.

“Do you think I really hate Black
people?”
“Yeah.”
“Have I done anything to make you
feel this way? How do you know?”
“You just do.”
“Why do you say that?”

He just smirked, looked out the window,
and sucked air through his teeth.
Perhaps this was a regional thing, but
the Blacks often sucked air through their
teeth as a wordless expression of disdain
or hostility.

My students were sometimes unable
to see the world except through the lens
of their own blackness. I had a class
that was host to a German exchange
student. One day he put on a Power Point
presentation with famous German landmarks
as well as his school and family.

From time to time during the presentation,
Blacks would scream, “Where da
Black folk?!” The exasperated German
tried to explain that there
were no black people where he lived in
Germany. The students did not believe
him. I told them Germany is in Europe,
where white people are from, and Africa
is where Black people are from. They
insisted that the German student was
racist and deliberately refused to associate
with Blacks.

Blacks are keenly interested in
their own racial characteristics. I have
learned, for example, that some blacks
have “good hair.” Good hair is black
parlance for black-white hybrid hair.
Apparently, it is less kinky, easier to
style, and considered more attractive.
Blacks are also proud of light skin.
Imagine two black students shouting
insults across the room. One is dark
and slim, the other light and obese. The
dark one begins the exchange: “You
fat, Ridario!” Ridario smiles, doesn’t deign to look
at his detractor, shakes his head like a
wobbling top, and says, “You wish you
light skinned.” They could go on like this, repeating
the same insults over and over.

My Black students had nothing but
contempt for Hispanic immigrants. They
would vent their feelings so crudely
that our department strongly advised us
never to talk about immigration in class
in case the principal or some outsider
might overhear.

Whites were “racis’,” of course, but
they thought of us at least as Americans.
Not the Mexicans. Blacks have a certain,
not necessarily hostile understanding of
white people. They know how whites
act, and it is clear they believe whites
are smart and are good at organizing
things. At the same time, they probably
suspect whites are just putting on an
act when they talk about equality, as if
it is all a sham that makes it easier for
whites to control Blacks. Blacks want a
bigger piece of the American pie. I’m
convinced that if it were up to them
they would give whites a considerably
smaller piece than whites get now, but
they would give us something. They
wouldn’t give Mexicans anything.

What about Black boys and white
girls? No one is supposed to
notice this or talk about it but
it is glaringly obvious: Black
boys are obsessed with white
girls. I’ve witnessed the following
drama countless times. A Black
boy saunters up to a white
girl. The cocky black dances
around her, not really in a menacing
way. It’s more a shuffle
than a threat. As he bobs and
shuffles he asks, “When you
gonna go wit’ me?”

There are two kinds of reply.
The more confident white
girl gets annoyed, looks away
from the Black and shouts, “I don’t wanna
go out with you!” The more demure
girl will look at her feet and mumble
a polite excuse but ultimately say no.

There is only one response from the
Black boy: “You racis’.” Many girls—all
too many—actually feel guilty because
they do not want to date Blacks. Most
white girls at my school stayed away
from Blacks, but a few, particularly the
ones who were addicted to drugs, fell
in with them.

There is something else that is striking
about Blacks. So many of them seem to have
no sense of romance, of falling in love.
What brings men and women together is
sex, pure and simple, and there is a crude
openness about this. There are many degenerate
whites, of course, but some of
my white students were capable of real
devotion and tenderness, emotions that
seemed absent from most Blacks—especially
the boys.

Black schools are violent and the
few whites who are too poor to escape
are caught in the storm. The violence is
astonishing, not so much that it happens,
but the atmosphere in which it happens.
Blacks can be smiling, seemingly perfectly
content with what they are doing,
having a good time, and then, suddenly
start fighting. It’s uncanny. Not long
ago, I was walking through the halls
and a group of Black boys were walking
in front of me. All of a sudden they
started fighting with another group in
the hallway.

Blacks are extraordinarily quick to
take offense. Once I accidentally scuffed
a Black boy’s white sneaker with my
shoe. He immediately rubbed his body
up against mine and threatened to attack
me. I stepped outside the class and had
a security guard escort the student to
the office. It was unusual for students
to threaten teachers physically this way,
but among themselves, they were quick
to fight for similar reasons.

The real victims are the unfortunate
whites caught in this. They are always
in danger and their educations suffer.
White weaklings are particularly susceptible,
but mostly to petty violence. They
may be slapped or get a couple of kicks
when they are trying to open a bottom
locker. Typically, Blacks save the hard,
serious violence for each other.

There was a lot of promiscuous sex
among my students and this led to
violence. Black girls were constantly
fighting over Black boys. It was not uncommon
to see two girls literally ripping
each other’s hair out with a police officer
in the middle trying to break up the
fight. The Black boy they were fighting
over would be standing by with a smile,
enjoying the show he had created. For
reasons I cannot explain, boys seldom
fought over girls.

Pregnancy was common among the
Blacks, though many Black girls were
so fat I could not tell the difference. I
don’t know how many girls got abortions,
but when they had the baby they
usually stayed in school and had their
own parents look after the child. The
school did not offer daycare.

Aside from the police officers constantly on campus, security guards are everywhere in
Black schools—we had one on every
hall. They also sat in on unruly classes
and escorted students to the office. They
were unarmed but worked closely with
the three city police officers who were
constantly on duty.

There was a lot of drug dealing at
my school. This was a way to
make a fair amount of money but it
also gave boys power over girls who
wanted drugs. An addicted girl—Black
or white—became the plaything of anyone
who could get her drugs.

One of my students was a notorious
drug dealer. Everyone knew it. He was
19 years old and in eleventh grade. Once
he got a score of three out of 100 on a
test. He had been locked up four times
since he was 13.

One day, I asked him, “Why do you
come to school?”

He wouldn’t answer. He just looked
out the window, smiled, and sucked air
through his teeth. His friend Yidarius
ventured an explanation: “He get dat
green and get dem females.”

“What is the green?” I asked. “Money
or dope?” “Both,” said Yidarius with a smile.

A very fat student interrupted from
across the room: “We get dat lunch,” Mr.
Jackson. “We gotta get dat lunch and
brickfuss.” He means the free breakfast
and lunch poor students get every day.
“Nigga, we know’d you be lovin’
brickfuss!” shouts another student.

Some readers may believe that I
have drawn a cruel caricature of Black
students. After all, according to official
figures some 85 percent of them graduate.
It would be instructive to know how
many of those scraped by with barely a
C- record. They go from grade to grade
and they finally get their diplomas
because there is so much pressure on
teachers to push them through. It saves
money to move them along, the school
looks good and the teachers look good.

Many of these children should have been
failed but the system would crack under
their weight if they were all held back.

How did my experiences make me
feel about Blacks? Ultimately, I lost
sympathy for them. In so many ways
they seem to make their own beds.
There they were in an integrationist’s
fantasy—in the same classroom with
white students, eating the same lunch,
using the same bathrooms, listening to
the same teachers—and yet the Blacks
fail while the whites pass.

One tragic outcome among whites
who have been teaching for too long
is that it can engender something close
to hatred. One teacher I knew gave up
fast food—not for health reasons but
because where he lived, most fast-food
workers were black. He had enough of
Blacks on the job. This was an extreme
example, but years of frustration can
take their toll. Many of my white colleagues
with any experience were well
on their way to that state of mind.

There is an unutterable secret among
teachers: Almost all realize that Blacks
do not respond to traditional white
instruction. Does that put the lie to environmentalism?
Not at all. It is what
brings about endless, pointless innovation
that is supposed to bring Blacks up
to the white level. The solution is more diversity, or put
more generally, the solution is "change."
Change is an almost holy word in education,
and you can fail a million times as
long as you keep changing. That is why
liberals keep revamping the curriculum
and the way it is taught.

For example, teachers are told that Blacks need hands-on
instruction and more group work. Teachers are told that Blacks are more
vocal and do not learn through reading and lectures. The implication is that they
have certain traits that lend themselves to a different kind of teaching.

Whites have learned a certain way for
centuries but it just doesn’t work with
Blacks. Of course, this implies racial
differences but if pressed, most liberal
teachers would say different racial
learning styles come from some indefinable
cultural characteristic unique to
Blacks. Therefore, schools must change,
America must change. But into what?
How do you turn quantum physics into
hands-on instruction or group work? No
one knows, but we must keep changing
until we find something that works.

Public school has certainly changed
since anyone reading this was a student.
I have a friend who teaches elementary
school and she tells me that every week
the students get a new diversity lesson,
shipped in fresh from some bureaucrat’s
office in Washington or the state
capital. She showed me the materials
for one week: a large poster,
about the size of a forty-two inch
flat-screen television. It shows
a diverse group—I mean
diverse: handicapped, Muslim,
Jewish, effeminate, poor, rich,
brown, slightly brown, yellow,
etc.—sitting at a table, smiling
gaily, accomplishing some undefined
task. The poster comes with
a sheet of questions the teacher is
supposed to ask. One might be: “These
kids sure look different, but they look
happy. Can you tell me which one in
the picture is an American?”

Some eight-year-old, mired in ignorance,
will point to a white child like
himself. “That one.”

The teacher reads from the answer,
conveniently printed along with the
question. “No, Billy, all these children
are Americans. They are just as American
as you.”

This is what happens at predominately white,
middle-class, elementary schools everywhere.
Elementary school teachers love All
of the Colors of the Race, by award-winning
children’s poet Arnold Adoff.

These are some of the lines they read
to the children: “Mama is chocolate …
Daddy is vanilla … Me (sic) is better …
It is a new color. It is a new flavor. For
love. Sometimes blackness seems too
black for me, and whiteness is too sickly
pale; and I wish everyone were golden.
Remember: long ago before people
moved and migrated, and mixed and
matched … there was one people: one
color, one race. The colors are flowing
from what was before me to what will
be after. All the colors.”

Teaching as a career
It may come as a surprise after what
I have written, but my experiences have
given me a deep appreciation for teaching
as a career. It offers a stable, middle-class
life but comes with the capacity
to make real differences in the lives of
children. In our modern, atomized world,
children often have very little communication
with adults—especially, or even,
with their parents—so there is potential
for a real transaction between pupil and
teacher, disciple and master.

A rewarding relationship can grow
up between an interested
student and his teacher. I have stayed in
my classroom with a group of students
discussing ideas and playing chess until
the janitor kicked us out. I was the
old gentleman, imparting my history,
culture, personal loves and triumphs,
defeats and failures to young kinsman.
Sometimes I fancied myself Tyrtaeus,
the Spartan poet, who counseled the
youth to honor and loyalty. I never had
this kind intimacy with a Black student,
and I know of no other white teacher
who did.

Teaching can be fun. For a certain
kind of person it is exhilarating to map
out battles on chalkboards, and teach
heroism. It is rewarding to challenge
liberal prejudices, to leave my mark on
these children, but what I aimed for with
my white students I could never achieve
with most Blacks.

There is a kind of child whose look
can melt your heart: some working-class
castaway, in and out of foster homes,
often abused, who is nevertheless almost
an angel. Your heart melts for these children,
this refuse of the modern world.

Many white students possess a certain
innocence. Try as I might, I could not get the
Blacks to care one bit about Beethoven
or Sherman’s march to the sea, or
Tyrtaeus, or Oswald Spengler, or even
liberals like John Rawls, or their own
history. Most of them cared about nothing I
tried to teach them. When this goes on
year after year, it chokes the soul out
of a teacher, destroys his pathos, and
sends him guiltily searching for The Bell
Curve on the Internet.

Blacks break down the intimacy that
can be achieved in the classroom, and
leave you convinced that that intimacy
is really a form of kinship. Without
intending to, they destroy what is most
beautiful—whether it be your belief in
human equality, your daughter’s innocence,
or even the state of the hallway.

Just last year I read on the
bathroom stall the words “F**k
Whitey.” Not two feet away, on the
same stall, was a small swastika.

The National Council for the Social
Studies, the leading authority on social
science education in the United States,
urges teachers to inculcate such values
as equality of opportunity, individual
property rights, and a democratic form
of government. Even if teachers could
inculcate this milquetoast ideology into
whites, liberalism is doomed because so
many non-whites are not receptive to
education of any kind beyond the merest
basics.

It is impossible to
get them to care about such abstractions
as property rights or democratic citizenship.
They do not see much further than
the fact that you live in a big house and
“we in da pro-jek.” Of course, there are a
few loutish whites who will never think
past their next meal and a few sensitive
Blacks for whom anything is possible,
but no society takes on the characteristics
of its exceptions.

Once I asked my students, “What do
you think of the Constitution?”
“It white,” one slouching Black rang
out. The class began to laugh. And I
caught myself laughing along with them,
laughing while Pompeii’s volcano simmers,
while the barbarians swell around
the Palatine, while the country I love,
and the job I love, and the community I
love become dimmer by the day.

I read a book by an expatriate Rhodesian
who visited Zimbabwe not
too many years ago. Traveling with a
companion, she stopped at a store along
the highway. A black man materialized
next to her car window. “Job, boss, (I)
work good, boss,” he pleaded. “You
give job.”

“What happened to your old job?”
the expatriate white asked. The man replied in the straightforward
manner of his race: “We drove
out the whites. No more jobs. You give
job.”

At some level, my students understand
the same thing. One day I asked
the bored, Black faces staring back
at me. “What would happen if all the
white people in America disappeared
tomorrow?”

“We screwed,” a young, pitch-black
boy screamed back. The rest of the
blacks laughed.

I have had children tell me to my face
as they struggled with an assignment. “I
cain’t do dis,” Mr. Jackson. “I black.”

The point is that human beings are not
always rational. It is in the Black man’s
interest to have whites in Zimbabwe but
he drives them out and starves. Most
whites do not think Black Americans
could ever do anything so irrational.
They see Blacks on television smiling,
fighting evil whites, embodying
white values. But the real Black is not
on television, and you pull your purse
closer when you see him, and you lock
the car doors when he swaggers by
with his pants hanging down almost to
his knees.

I have been in parent-teacher conferences
that broke my heart: the child
pleading with his parents to take him
out of school; the parents convinced
their child’s fears are groundless. If you
love your child, show her you care—
not by giving her fancy vacations or a
car, but making her innocent years safe
and happy. Give her the gift of a not-heavily black
school.

Mr. Jackson now teaches at a majority-
white school.

INSHARE

POSTED BY MARTY NEMKO AT 5:53 PM
LABELS: ACHIEVEMENT GAP, AFRICAN-AMERICAN ACHIEVEMENT, EDUCATION REFORM, REINVENTING EDUCATION
776 COMMENTS:

1 – 200 of 776   Newer›   Newest»
 R D. Robinson said...
I read your writing relative to African American students. I agree, there are educational divides between white students and black students. Perhaps a conspiracy has been enabled. The promotion of Rap Music, Celebrity Life, and other illusions have capture young African Americans minds. A form of new slavery. The best slave is one who doesn't know that he or she is a slave. The system is exploiting the positive future of so many African American students. It is sad. America must revamp its educational system.

JUNE 16, 2009 9:44 PM
 Anonymous said...
Even during my years as a black student at a public school (and those schools were not the best in the district) had I encountered such boorish behavior as this teacher describes. It sounds like doing his job of teaching was just about impossible to do.

The teacher does end up using a lot of stereotypes:

"There is a level of conformity among blacks that whites would find hard to believe. They like one kind of music: rap. They will vote for one political party: Democrat. They dance one way, speak one way, are loud the same way, and fail their exams in the same way."

At the end of that paragraph he adds, "Of course, there are exceptions but they are rare."

"Blacks are all - well - black, and they are quick to let other blacks know when they deviate from the norm."

"Of course, there are a few loutish whites who will never think past their next meal and a few sensitive blacks for whom anything is possible, but no society takes on the characteristics of its exceptions."

"There is an unutterable secret among teachers: Almost all realize that blacks do not respond to traditional white instruction."

I did. What am I, a freak of nature?

I'm an exception to the rule, and I'd like to hope that there are more than just a rare few like me. To be honest, there probably aren't a whole lot, and I'll always stick out like a sore thumb.

Reading a whole bunch of stereotypes is a turn-off. But I kept reading, knowing that there are probably a lot of people who openly or secretly agree with everything he says.

This experience will color his view of all blacks, and any that encounter him will automatically have that strike against them.

At the same time, I have to admit that a lot of blacks act exactly as he describes, and unless they get rid of this mindset, they will not become productive members of society. There are more that are as he describes to a lesser degree. Many of my family members, with whom I no longer associate, are like this.

To answer your question of what we should do about this, Mr. Nemko: well, after a certain point, people of all ages begin to think for themselves and have their own thoughts and ideas. They know on some level that there is a certain way the world works, or America works. If these people do not want to follow the rules and make better lives for themselves and/or their families, they need to be cut off. They do not deserve to be coddled. If they keep refusing to be taught, why should money be wasted on teaching them? If they do not want to contribute to society, why should society contribute to them? Just because they're here?

Maybe at some point, citizens should have to earn their citizenship, like legal immigrants do. You think that natural-born citizens would take their spot in America more seriously if they had to apply for it every few years, like a driver's license?

JUNE 16, 2009 11:30 PM
 Kelly said...
Mr. Nemko and Mr. Jackson: You are brave to post this. It's not often we see truths this uncomfortable spelled out in such stark terms. People are afraid to tell them for fear of being labeled racists.

R.D. Robinson: I agree with you. If I were a conspiracy theorist (which I'm not), I would say this horrible situation could hardly have occurred without being engineered on purpose. But then the question would become "why?" and I don't think even the most wacko leftist would have wanted the massive, dangerous underclass we have now.

Anonymous: I can hear the pain in your words. I'm so sorry you've been left with essentially no family and you have to read such awful things about the people who look like you. I, too, was taken a little aback by the stereotypes in Mr. Jackson's piece, but then I thought about how I would probably feel after going through what he has experienced.

At the end of it all, I'm left feeling enormously sad for these kids and for the adults they will become. They clearly take no joy in life whatsoever and have no idea that joy exists or is possible. Most of them probably never will. Mr. Jackson got out of that situation, as do most of the white kids he speaks of, and a few of the blacks. But the majority of those blacks will live out their (likely foreshortened) lives never knowing the simple pleasures of accomplishment and of meaningful connections with other people.

I wish I knew the answer.

JUNE 17, 2009 10:06 AM
 Marty Nemko said...
On rereading this article, this seems more extreme than I remember. I had been working on medical research at the Rockefeller University but it was 1971 and I was swept up by the times' liberal idealism and left to run drug-prevention "rap groups" in I.S. 61, an inner-city school in New York City.

While my experience in that school was rather similar to what this article reports, it wasn't as extreme. Yes, a number of Black girls came to school with razor blades in their hair because they knew they'd get into a fight in which their opponent would pull their hair and thus get cut by the razor blades. I remember my utter frustration in being unable to control the kids--despite my really trying hard to be a great teacher--there would often be a few kids running around the room, flirting, pushing, and I'll never forget when I told a kid to sit down he get got up in my face and said, 'You ain't my mama. You can't make me!"

But because the article reports such extreme behavior, a piece of me wonders if it's exaggerated or at least atypical of inner-city heavily African-American schools. So, I'm wondering what it would be like if today, one walked through the halls and peeked into classes at random (not those hand-picked by the principal for me to see) and watched recess at an inner-city, heavily African-American high school. I'd welcome comments from anyone who has done so.

JUNE 17, 2009 10:47 AM
 Anonymous said...
As a former tutor to some black students in an under performing elementary school (I was in high school) I found that the really dedicated students needed outside tutoring in basic skills because their regular teachers were overwhelmed with the daily requirements of keeping some order in the class. Many black students have parents who want them to succeed but don't know where to turn for help.

JUNE 17, 2009 1:42 PM
 Anonymous said...
(Full disclosure - I'm white)

Sad. For the teacher but even more for the students who ultimately suffer.

I will say...having worked in companies and an area with a large number African American employees that virtually no one was like this, but apparently exceptions were very rare in this school.

You know, if I'd had the chance in school to avoid homework, disrespect instruction, blame others, and dismiss initiative with an easy excuse I likely would have taken it.

It's not a skin color thing, it's an African American certain groups thing.

Many African Americans would not behave this way. Having spent time in Africa, the average African wouldn't dream of behaving in such a manner (they could well educate all of us on decorum). Nor the Africans who come to America and become citizens, get jobs and raise families.

At first, I was thinking, if these students could see this in Africa - would they chance their minds?

I don't think so, because then the excuse is gone. They are angry and defensive when the sham is revealed - people who look like them can succeed, etc. They know that but sometimes we're victims of our own habits and the system is expecting or forcing them otherwise, and one teacher can't be expected to in a sea of denial.

I haven't a clue how to start fixing it, but I hope it changes. I dream of the day when expectations are the same no matter what shade your skin is - at school, at work, at play.

JUNE 17, 2009 6:36 PM
 Anonymous said...
You really struck a chord with this post. I'm surprised that not only are the responses civil, but also just about everybody agrees with you.

I bet that there are more stories like this out there than you know. Probably not quite like Mr. Jackson's story. Extreme or not, however, you got some of your readers thinking.

I've been looking at websites that compare public schools in California, where I live. The ones usually rated best or with the best scores had mostly white and/or Asian students, and the worst usually had mostly black and/or Latino students. After a while, you begin to wonder if this is merely coincidence.

Nothing will be done about this. I believe that most of the people that run schools are stuck in what I'm calling the "insanity loop" (trying the same things and expecting different results). Or maybe, just maybe, they don't care all that much about improving education for students. They're giving what they believe is necessary for a very large and increasingly diverse population without truly trying to figure out what that population needs.

I just read your most recent comment, and I can see why you might be ambivalent about speaking to a journalist about this.

While both Eric Holder and Barack Obama called for an open discussion of race, very few of us are equipped to have it. Race is one of those topics where it is almost impossible for a person to come to the table with an open mind. Our opinions on race are formed very early, and so many of us stubbornly stick to them even if the situation before us proves us wrong.

I can only hope that the journalist whose interest you piqued comes to the table with an open mind if and when he speaks to you.

Like one of the anonymous posters here, I will give disclosure as well.

I wrote the first anonymous response. I've written many of the anonymous comments in response to previous posts. Often Marty can't tell who it is, but I think he'll recognize me this time.

I'm a black woman, and I've personally known Marty for 4 years. In that time he's become a very good friend to me, one of the kindest people I've met in my life.

He's also the only person I've met, including my black friends and family, who has been willing to have open discussions on race with me.

I know Marty would not have posted Mr. Jackson's story if he did not honestly believe that it could lead to better, not worse, race relations. As Kelly said, it's brave. Any person who reads Mr. Jackson's story and can confront their own feelings and reactions without any excuses or justifications is just as brave. We can all learn from this.

JUNE 17, 2009 9:27 PM
 Marty Nemko said...
Thank you, Anonymous. I am touched.

JUNE 17, 2009 10:50 PM
 Marty Nemko said...
A journalist said he may be doing a story on the fact that I would post this incendiary essay. He asked me why I posted it.

This is my answer. It is somewhat redundant with the penultimate paragraph of my introduction to the essay, but you may, nonetheless, find it of interest.

Hi Matt,

Maybe it would help if I, in writing, answered your question about why I reproduced on my blog and then in our phone conversation you can ask whatever follow-ups you may have.

This is why I posted the person's essay. I worry terribly about censorship. Like the ACLU, I believe society is best served when, especially around such important issues as the achievement gap, the full range of ideas, even and maybe especially ideas that make us feel uncomfortable, are allowed to be given voice.

If I were blogging in the 1950s McCarthy era, no doubt I would have been posting leftist essays to counter McCarthy's attempts to censor such thought.

Today, the opposite seems true--conservative ideas have a hard time finding a major public voice. Sure there's Fox News and much talk radio but the media outlets with the largest mindshare, especially among the intellengsia (e.g NPR, NY Times, etc) publish little conservative thought except as a whipping boy or straw man.

So, in my blog, I look for opportunities to present perspectives that are often censored. Certainly, this post is the most extreme essay I've ever posted and, indeed, I feel its position is too extreme and broad-brush--Of course, many African-American students are bright and hardworking.

But I felt that, especially in education, we mainly hear lofty rhetoric from politicians and educational leaders (who often themselves are politicians) and from academics worried that political correctness is required for getting hired or tenured. That's not the whole story.

Just as the much-needed women's movement was triggered not just by measured academic tomes but also by passionate statements that, even though they were sometimes excessively male-bashing, shone powerful light on women's plight, similarly, I believe we need to hear passionate (even if deeply frustrated and overly drawn) reports from the trenches on tough issues, for example the question of the achievement gap between African-Americans and Asians/whites.

As I said, for decades, we've certainly heard plenty of the lofty rhetoric from education leaders and academics yet the achievement gap remains and little new is being proposed. I made a decision to post this flawed essay, hoping that its from-the-street perspective, overdrawn though it is, would make a small contribution toward a more full-dimensioned discussion of the problem and toward identifying more promising approaches and not be used to justify racist behavior toward African-Americans. That is the last thing I want.

You may recall that Attorney General Eric Holder called us a nation of cowards about race and urged us to discuss the issue in full dimension. Reproducing this essay on my blog was simply a small effort in that direction.

Yet, I must admit feeling, somehow, ambivalent now about having posted it and, frankly, a little scared to talk with you--Whether or not you agree with my decision to post that essay, I hope you'll understand that it was an act of integrity, even bravery to post it: I had absolutely nothing to gain from posting it (other than being true to my desire to facilitate the full-dimension exploration of issues) and much to lose (damage to my reputation which I've worked long and hard to earn) if you decide to post an article that is critical of me for having posted that person's essay.

JUNE 17, 2009 10:55 PM
 dance teacher said...
Great post.. and some interesting points made.

JUNE 18, 2009 3:37 AM
 Kelly said...
"I made a decision to post this flawed essay, hoping that its from-the-street perspective, overdrawn though it is, would make a small contribution toward a more full-dimensioned discussion of the problem and toward identifying more promising approaches and not be used to justify racist behavior toward African-Americans. That is the last thing I want."

You're in good company, Marty. In his amazing book, The Blank Slate, Steven Pinker drives home the point that, while effectively addressing societal problems such as this requires that we face them full-on and honestly acknowledge their origins, such a direct approach never justifies bigotry and prejudice, because those are simply not features of a modern, civil society.

The above is very much a paraphrase, as I don't have the book in front of me at the moment. But I believe it's an accurate (though bare-bones) summary of his position, with which I strongly concur. It seems to also be your position.

JUNE 18, 2009 7:26 AM
 Marty Nemko said...
Thanks, Kelly.

Yes, while I do think the essay is flawed in its extremity and broad-brushness, I do believe it is important to see various people's first-hand reporting of the cultural mores in the black community--to the extent they're inimical to education, it's crucial to be aware of them if we hope to close the achievement gap.

Those cultural mores have largely been ignored in efforts (delineated in the intro to the original post) to close the achievement gap because it makes people (including me) uncomfortable to discuss--as you can tell, it's uncomfortable for me even to publish others' first-hand reporting on the subject.

But we have to. It's like trying to cure cancer without examining all the likely causal factors.

JUNE 18, 2009 9:11 AM
 D Robinson said...
After reading this blog, I have to admit I'm quite embarrassed. I'm a 32 year old Black female engineer who was born and reared in the Southeast (Tupelo, Mississippi), and I knew a group of kids who acted like this.

I was in a predominantly white school so I was a bit more sheltered from this sort of environment. However, the white kids were equally as rude and cruel to one another. At the end of the day, I was raised to be a good kid and treat people with respect from day one. I'm still that same person today.

It's curious to hear this teacher's account of these kids, and all I can think is this person will have this misconception that all Blacks are that way. I like rap, I like R&B, I like rock, and I adore techno...does that make me a rare Black? When I was a teenager my favorites were Ice Cube, MC Hammer, Keith Sweat, Poison, Warrant, and Guns n Roses...does that make me a freak?

I live in Connecticut now, and there are virtually no Blacks where I live. It's tough to have a Black community in a town of 96% whites. They watch TV and listen to the stereotypes and assume we're all like the Blacks on BET or Cops.

And why is it so considered a bad thing? Even if it were true that Black people were generally less intelligent, listen to rap all day, vote Democrat, and talk loudly...why is that considered a negative? It's an assumption that whites act appropriately and are considered the pristine standard for human behavior.

I'm fed up, and although I work in a corporate environment with mostly 50 year old white males, I laugh out loud, I joke, I have fun, I even joke in "Ebonics" with a select few of them who are familiar with Blacks. However, I’m no one’s token. I've survived layoffs, management changes, and career changes in this environment because I'm genuine, true to myself, command respect, and I produce results.

I’m not sure what to think of this article, and (honestly) I feel a little embarrassed to be Black after reading this teacher’s account. It’s just one person who is genuinely expressing his opinions and reading it made me defensive. My defensiveness just means that I’ve got more to work to do over here (on myself that is) because I cannot affect someone else’s opinions/perceptions. I can only affect how I perceive myself. If I was truly okay about whom I am (skin, culture, capabilities, etc.), this person’s comments would not affect me.

JUNE 18, 2009 6:38 PM
 Marty Nemko said...
Dear D Robinson,

I am sad indeed that your reputation suffers because of the actions of others.

Marty

JUNE 18, 2009 6:48 PM
 wrallen99 said...
Marty,
I think Mr. Jackson should have been more specific about who he was writing about. It's likely that his students were mostly low-income students with American born parents. Many African-American families with middle or upper income either move to a more diverse school or put their children into private schools. This leaves the local schools with students who are low-income and have parents with little education. Parents of students who immigrated from Africa or the Caribbean also tend to value education and put their children in private or diverse schools.

My wife is black and from Belize. Her and her family are typical of many people who recently moved here and are serious about education. Of course, where she went to high school, you had to pay and the school was vary rigorous in science and math. They are often puzzled by the African-American families who don't take advantage of a good education. Like I said, I've met friends from Africa and the Caribbean who value education, too. Also, they are not caught up in the whole this race, that race thing.

As for education, I've felt that we should adopt the model where there are two tracks: vocational and college. If someone isn't interested in going to college, they can learn a vocational skill in high school. Many of these skills are in high demand and pay very well.

JUNE 18, 2009 11:57 PM
 JimJinNJ said...
(I'm white)
This essay is quite overdue to be written and published. I think/hope the situation is on the extreme end of the distribution-can't imagine what is beyond it.
But I fear it is true. When I occasionally go into philadelphia to the Gallery (indoor shopping mall) during the day, it is flooded with young, mostly male black kids. why aren't they in school I always wonder. And they are loud, illieterate and generally objectionable. No amount of diversity training and brainwashing could get me to relate to them.
I suspect this is quite regionally determined. Phila is a trash heep of black folk generally. When I travel to e.g. Atlanta, SC, or central Illinois I get a different, more likable impression. So I suspect this is big city stuff. Somehow we've ended up with a sub-culture (called it a tribe or the "black commuinty") that is just not civilized, socialized. I think the data (US and worldwide) is correct taht Black are significantly lower in intelligence than Whites who in turn are consistently lower than many Asians. (If you don't like Bell Curve, checkout Global Bell Curve.) But that doesn't explain all. the differences are real but the distributions overlap more than not. So this is a socialized condition. It takes no genious to imagine what is going on after school. If there's a parent, it is most likely a woman and hi probability the child is illegitimate (and she proud of it).

I could go on but I know many are saying what a "racis" I am. I don'
t think so. The fact is there is serious dysfunction in the american black population; in addition, you are hard pressed to name a black country or a black mayor city in US that is not dysfunctional.
This is the culture Bill Cosby. Thomas Sowell and others points out only to be called Uncle Tom.
Hideous situation.

JUNE 20, 2009 10:42 AM
 Anonymous said...
This really hits home for me. I teach in an inner city school. It's mostly hispanic but we do have a lot of African American students too. I see a lot of issues between the two groups. Mostly the African American students not liking the Hispanic students. These students are in a cycle of poverty and it's a culture that they've been in all their lives. It's really sad. They don't seem to want to change it, or in some of the cases, don't know how. As they get older they just don't even care. Their parents are some of the worst to deal with too. As a special education teacher it is very disheartening to try time after time to get a parent in for a meeting, only to be blown off. Or to have to stake out their house, spend lots of personal time tracking this person down because they just don't care enough to come in and work with you on their child's education. (A sign that education is not valued.) Most of the behavior problems in our school come from our black students and not from our hispanic students, and our school has a much larger hispanic population. We get more support from our hispanic parents when there is a problem.
I wish that it wasn't a "bad" thing for African American students to excel in school. They should be proud to be good students. They shouldn't be labeled traitors or Uncle Toms. They should be celebrated and regarded as role models. And so should the white students, the hispanic students, asian students, etc. Maybe that's my wishful thinking as a middle class white woman. I'll continue working with my students and trying to change the cycle, trying to make a difference.

JUNE 20, 2009 12:44 PM
 Anonymous said...
I am not sure WHERE your experiences have been Mr. Jackson, if I can call you that. Let me assure you, PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE NOT THE SAME! You write as if you are the authority on these behaviors, you are not. You write as if someone as threatened you with bodily harm. You're comments and 'insights' are greatly controlled and directed by your racist attitude. If you had respected your students they may have come up to your standards, but from what you have written - the students understand your underlying racist attitude and live up to just that - an attitude that they are all too familiar with. All black students do not talk loud, yes some do. All black students do not listen to rap, yes SOME do. All black teenagers think of only sex and drugs and getting 'dat green'. You have written as if because of the color of skin a child can be categorized into your little pot of characteristics. There are more than a few black students that do not fit into your pot, Mr. Jackson. I challenge you, go somewhere else and teach, try not to let your attitude get in the way when you hear the street language come from these lips unlike your own from backgrounds unlike your own. Respect the person who has thoughts and sway them with the expert teaching that you MAY possess to think out side of the box that has obviously become your home!
As far as the educational system changing the curriculum for the cause of black students, think again - yes there is a huge gap between blacks and whites but it is beginning to close. The black individuals I know at one time felt no hope. That is, until Obama became President - now they feel they can accomplish anything. You see, they at one time felt utter hopelessness because they came up against white people who called themselves educators - people with one thought - they are black and black equals stupid - people like you Mr. Jackson. I have a lot more to say about this but I feel some of it you may need to find on your own - challenge yourself to look for that student who stands out and search your inner soul - how would I behave if I had that background? Ask yourself this question before putting all assumptions upon the student before allowing them a chance to prove their intelligence because of the color of the skin, an outward appearance that is only that - on the outside. Once you look inside they do have the same needs and desires - but you as an educator helped to form some of those thoughts and some of those desires - think also of that Mr. Jackson.
From a mother and teacher of black students

JUNE 21, 2009 5:04 AM
 Anonymous said...
C. Kirabo Jackson, an associate professor of labor economics at Cornell University, published a study last month in the Journal of Labor Economics. He reported that, at all levels of schooling, high-quality teachers, both black and white, were more likely to switch schools when the racial makeup of a school became predominantly black.

JUNE 22, 2009 10:24 PM
 D Robinson said...
Thanks Marty, really cutting edge stuff you're posting. Keep stirring the pot, it makes people think.


Daphne R.

JUNE 23, 2009 3:11 PM
 Anonymous said...
Here's the study referred to earlier:

http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1010&context=c_kirabo_jackson

His study was limited to one school district, Charlotte-Mecklenburg, NC, which recently ended mandatory school desegregation. His website says that the paper has been peer reviewed.

http://works.bepress.com/c_kirabo_jackson/subject_areas.html

Interesting.

JUNE 23, 2009 6:47 PM
 Anonymous said...
Sad, so sad.

I sit here reading the comments to this informative article and just chuckle.

Some of you will deny reality until the bitter end. Yet more will pile on more excuses as to why it is. You will ignore the obvious answer because it is too painful to think about.

Its glaringly obvious this "racist" was no racist when he started. Its glaringly obvious he tried everything he could, and still failed in the face of the thug-life culture gripping the black community. A culture they love and endorse. You are the means to your own ends, yet still you blame whitey. Such ignorance to dance around the inconvenient truth. Even now you praise a halfbreed in the white house, who cannot speak without a teleprompter. To you he is the messiah, but he is nothing but a weak man with a strong heart. nothing any country can do will save you from yourselves.

Insult away, insults are the only way many know how to counter the truth. Lambast away at me. It changes nothing of the reality of the situation.

The exceptions change nothing, only the majority, with their pure numbers, do. Untill the culture is changed, by you yourselves, to endorse education, this will only continue.

It is not America that needs revamping.

Nor any educational system.

Nor laws, policies, or what have you.

Its the culture blacks have fostered for themselves.

Mr.Jackson never forced them to behave the way they do, nor anyone else in his situation. The more black the area, the more glaringly obvious his observations, and more moronic those who tout diversity, yet live purely among whites, seem.

If you do not change this, something only you as a community can do.

This degradation will continue.

That i guarantee.

JUNE 30, 2009 1:06 PM
 Anonymous said...
I find it hilarious how so many people who had a comment about this essay felt that it was imperative to state their own race (even if they were not citing personal experiences). You can agree or disagree with the essay without categorizing yourself in a racial group. Especially if you disagree with the essay, it undermines your comment to state your race.

I was educated in a parish and then a private grade school, in a magnet high school, and will attend a private university.

I have heard stories exactly like this one from friends who were educated in public schools.

Does that mean I think that all black people act this way? No.

Does that mean I think there is something going wrong with the raising of children in a large segment of our society? Yes.

However, regardless of another's actions, "two wrongs don't make a right." At high school age, I don't care if you were raised in the most difficult home situation: you are in charge of your actions.

Our society provides public education, public libraries, etc. for everyone, and it's your own decision--and no one else's-- if you are going to take advantage of the opportunities presented to you.

JUNE 30, 2009 2:00 PM
 Anonymous said...
Citing the paragraph stating that you did not want this essay to become a justification for racist thoughts and discussion, well, that failed. I only became aware of this article/essay because of a visit to Stormfront.org. So, if your intention was genuine, it did not work. As you may or may not be aware, Stormfront is a bastion of racist thought and contains the worst of the worst thinking and expressions regarding African Americans in all aspects of our great American society. The hate discussed there is not only irrational, but will make the most tolerant non-whites begin to hate whites on a whole. They are currently running with it as I type this response, see http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=615235 Some of what you wrote contains a kernel of truth, but don't forget, an ear of corn has multiple kernels and among 30 million plus African Americans, saying that your observations are the rule and there are few exceptions is highly misleading. If that were the case, Black america would not produce any successes whatsoever. Remember when it was widely believed that Blacks lacked the capacity to excel in sports? Now, the only sports that Blacks do not dominate, are those that require millions from sponsors that do not have the interest of Blacks as a priority. One Black in Golf among a field of thousands and, well you know the rest, it was the same for tennis, baseball, football, even basketball. I will admit that reading your essay made my eyes well up with genuine tears because I am familiar with that segment of the African American community. What is rarely discussed is the fact that White teachers who do venture to tackle the task of teaching in the inner city, do so with a set of preconceived ideas. They go in expecting to observe and experience that kind of behavior and subsequently fulfill their prophecy. They do very little to attempt to change those behaviors, but are quick to condemn those students once they exit. I know that because I attended inner city schools during my primary school career. I have had white teachers and guidance counselors try to steer me away from higher education because of the color of my skin, telling me that it is not necessary for me to further my education and that I would be better off learning a trade. I proved them wrong by not only attending university, but have been a great success in my professional life. I have known Black students that have acted out in the way you described, but on the other hand, I have also known Black students who were the complete opposite and excelled. One thing that needs to be understood, is that the European thought process is a bit different from the non-European thought process. Europeans developed the English language, they perfected it to meet their own needs and desires, An African American experiences difficulties with the language because it is essentially foreign to them. Even when born into the language, they have trouble with it due to linguistics. You have to agree that English is the most difficult language to learn, either written or spoken. African Americans are indoctrinated and are forced to think in the way Europeans think. Blacks are an oral people, their histories used to be passed on orally through proverbs and stories that weren't necessarily written down. That is one of the reasons that rap music is so popular. I do think that written language is very important especially in a complex society such as ours; however, older African tribal societies were not at all complex. I have always believed that as a people, Europeans considering themselves superior and civil, should have the wisdom to at least attempted to share their "superiority" in the same way that teachers should share their superior knowledge with their students instead of berating them.

JUNE 30, 2009 2:49 PM
 Anonymous said...
Well, this just about describes my high school experience. It wasn't as bad as this article because my school was mostly Hispanic in population.

To posters who seek other reasons for this type of failure in black schools I have my own opinion.

If the way they act is based on some conspiracy and so forth, do black students have some intellectual backbone? That is, can't they reason, or at least question why they like their lifestyle? Or perhaps the answer lies in that they simply gravitate to whatever lifestyle seems palatable to them, for reasons that might be considered "racis'." I.e. biological differences?

Continuously blaming others or society is fruitless. Where is the black students' ability to read through conspiracies or to give respect to teachers, or to be quiet when told so. Or is that racist as well?

Maybe then, black students only have an interest in free brekfus, da gren, and da honnies.

Of course, there are exceptions.

JUNE 30, 2009 3:28 PM
 Anonymous said...
I avoided this kind of atmosphere, but a family member went to an "integrated" school and her experiences were illuminating. She and her white girl friends had to go to the restroom in groups to deter attacks by black girls. They gave up eating in the cafeteria because of black violence and ate their brown bag lunches in vacant class rooms during the noon hour.

My experiences with blacks came in college, and they weren't much better than in high school. They were loud, rude, ill mannered, lazy and stupid. In my younger idealistic days I tried to befriend a couple of them and was that a jolt! The fact is that regardless of their declared field of study, most blacks major in being black. Liberal teachers immediately fall silent when the blacks speak because the "black perspective" is holy doctrine. What is the "black perspective"? The "black perspective" is a world view based on elevating the ugliest, crudest most uncivilized human instincts and denigrating every single uplifting or ennobling value they encounter.

If you want a good example of this, down load and read Michelle Obama's senior thesis from Princeton University. Apart from the grammatical mistakes, typos and tedious syntax, it seethes with hatred of white people and white civilization. Michelle Obama is a text book example of the affirmative action Negro who majored in "being black." The only differences between her and the people described in this essay is that she has better table manners and dresses more fashionably.

I have no more patience for blacks. None. In my entire life I've never seen any institution, classroom, place of employment or any thing else uplifted or improved by their presence. I can't remember all the times that standards have been lowered for them. Has anyone ever heard of standards being raised because of their presence or contribution?

We need to bring back segregated schools and segregated neighborhoods. We need "White Safety Zones" to protect white people from them. They are just not in sync with civilization and never will be.

JUNE 30, 2009 3:50 PM
 Anonymous said...
I missed the joys of integrated schooling, but other family members were not so lucky. A younger sister briefly attended an "integrated" school and it was Hell. She and her white girl friends could only use the restrooms in groups to deter black girls who wanted to fight them. Violent black girls chased them out of the school cafeteria and my sister and her friends ate their bag lunches in quiet but safe empty class rooms during the lunch period.

My wonderful experiences with Negroes came in college, where I quickly learned that the presence of a single one of them could completely sabotage a class. They're loud, rude, lazy, ill mannered and stupid beyond belief. At the same time, with the leave of gutless liberal teachers, they're always spouting off with the "black perspective." And do you know what is the “black perspective”? The "black perspective" is bizarre world view based on elevating the ugliest, crudest, and most uncivilized human instincts and denigrating anything with an uplifting or ennobling influence. These people are dysfunctional savages.

After I wrote an op ed in the college newspaper about affirmative action, the Black Student Union came to the newspaper office, trashed the place and beat up one of the liberals there. They couldn’t find me and I guess all whites look alike to them. Police were not called to investigate or prosecute these crimes and we were told the most important thing was “not to overreact.”

I have never heard of a single area of life that was uplifted or improved by the presence of blacks. To the contrary, one always reads about civil rights law suits seeking to lower standards, dumb down tests, or otherwise lower the quality of life to accommodate them. They’re not suited for modern, advanced civilization. It’s as though they were broken people or something.

We need to bring back segregated schools, segregated communities…White Safety Zones, if you will. We would not send adult soldiers into war zones un armed and denied the right of self defense and there is no excuse for sending white children, or white adults for that matter, into black communities, schools or anything else. Call me a racist. Call me a bigot. Call me a hater. Then, pause for reflection, and try to think of a single big city taken over by blacks and black elected officials in which you would be safe.

JUNE 30, 2009 4:03 PM
 Anonymous said...
A recent study said more black teachers are needed for the black children.
Well, first it was thought that black children needed to be around white children to learn.
Then when that did not improve outcomes it was because the teachers needed diversity seminars and the district had to hire expensive "consultants".
Now, ...they are rediscovering the obvious, that blacks do better with blacks.
All the more reason to return to segregation when both races were happier.

JUNE 30, 2009 4:47 PM
 Anonymous said...
About what I've realized.

I already had my pre-concieved notions from experiences before I began working at an office with a large portion of Black people. The behavior seems to be one of spontaneous dance, excuses, and basically doing as little work as possible while complaining about a lack of pay. They constantly come in late, talk extremely vulgar and loud and just generally engage in behavior you would not see of someone of another race.

It's really quite sad and has done nothing but confirm the stereotypes I already knew.

JUNE 30, 2009 5:06 PM
 Anonymous said...
"I did. What am I, a freak of nature? I'm an exception to the rule, and I'd like to hope that there are more than just a rare few like me."

Read, The Bell Curve by Murray and Herrnstein. You'll see that you as a very smart black, are, indeed a freak of nature, just as those very, very, very smart whites are. There ARE only a rare few like you. I'm sorry. I hope you find them. Try looking for black conservatives. They tend to be smart, and, obviously, nonconformist.

"If these people do not want to follow the rules and make better lives for themselves and/or their families, they need to be cut off. They do not deserve to be coddled. If they keep refusing to be taught, why should money be wasted on teaching them?"

Thank you for daring to say this.
The real tragedy that the leftists have caused with their push of the comfortable, pretty, multicultural lie that "we are all equal and white racism is the cause of black underachievement and any white who says different is racist" is that, if these deliberated disrupters were GONE, no more excuses, the few, clearly capable and motivated blacks such as yourself could have a chance to learn -- and even the chance to meet those few others like you.

JUNE 30, 2009 5:18 PM
 Anonymous said...
I have worked with blacks for years in a health care capacity. I am white.

There is clearly a genetic difference in intelligence which is not compatible with blacks residing in a civilized society.

I am not sure what the answer is at this point.

JUNE 30, 2009 8:27 PM
 Anonymous said...
You just be a racis, mufucka, mah dik and all dat sheet. A nigga gotta do wat a nigga gotta do, mah dik.

Truthfully, anyone who has ever spent any time living around the garden variety ghetto trash that are very truthfully described in this piece, comes to HATE them! There is no other rational emotion that could come from true immersion in the black inner city culture. Maybe pity, but pity only goes so far when you are dealing with violent, degenerate savages.

JUNE 30, 2009 9:30 PM
 Anonymous said...
I'm white and I went to school in Los Angeles during the 80's and early 90's. I had the EXACT same experiences with blacks as described in this article. I entered school as an incredibly open minded, left leaning child. I exited school completely the opposite. My experiences mirror those Mr. Jackson has described, and that was almost 20 years ago. I can't imagine what schools look like today. I could write pages and pages on the behavior of black kids and many Latino kids as well, and not just aimed at whites, but aimed at anyone deemed too weak to fight back. Blacks become their own worst enemy, and they don't even know it.

JUNE 30, 2009 11:25 PM
 Beth said...
"There is an unutterable secret among teachers: Almost all realize that blacks do not respond to traditional white instruction."

I did. What am I, a freak of nature?"

No, you are not. I assume that you had a strong support system that taught you a value for education. You were blessed, unlike these other unfortunate children.

I've seen the same behavior among welfare whites in California, so this dysfunctionality is not related to race. If the author had removed the term black, it could have been the same school system that I pulled my kids out of because of said attitude. The same lack of value for education, inability to focus on the future, entitlement mentality, etc. Parents who didn't give a damn and encouraged their kids to fail rather then succeed. The same frustration and anger among the teachers who were struggling against a low rent culture.

Read Theodore Dalrymples "Life at the Bottom" to see how the same scenario plays out in England.

CULTURE (or lack thereof), not race, is everything.

JUNE 30, 2009 11:51 PM
 Marty Nemko said...
Candidly, I have been strongly tempted to censor a number of the most recent comments.

Much of their content strikes me as not constructive. Some of it, arguably, could even be termed hate speech.

But I'm not sure and so--especially, when, in my most recent post, I decried the censorship of political incorrect thought--I decided (and this is another truly gray area decision) to publish the comments rather than censor them but state in THE STRONGEST TERMS POSSIBLE, my antipathy toward much of what they had to say and express my dismay that the essay was touted in a clearly racist organization's online forum.

Whatever negative experiences a person may have had with individuals of a certain background, it is ESSENTIAL that we not tar all people of that background with the same brush AND that those negative experiences should never be used as an excuse for advocating such approaches as deliberately segregated schools, a practice I find anathema.

I have friends of different racial and ethnic backgrounds and I would be saddened indeed to think that any of them would have been precluded from attending a school because of their race or ethnicity.

I urge all readers to use this remarkably, often frighteningly candid essay and subsequent comments as a trigger for constructive ideas aimed at benefiting kids of all races and ethnic backgrounds.

JULY 1, 2009 12:02 AM
 Beth said...
BTW, my grandfather taught in a one room California schoolhouse in the late 1800s.

He had a gun in his desk because of the big hulking WHITE farm boys who thought it would be fun to "whip the teacher". They soon found out otherwise.

Culture, my dears, it's all about culture.

"Give me a child until he is seven, and I will give you the man".

JULY 1, 2009 12:04 AM
 Anonymous said...
My nephew and niece attend one of the top H.S.'s in the country. It is a magnet program, but the school is in the low-income part of town. Kids who live there have the great privilege of attending the school without having to apply and be accepted.

What I hear from my nephew is totally consistent with what I read in that article. The black students' cultural differences, outbursts ("O-BA-MA!"), and constant claims of racism make it difficult to maintain an environment conducive to good instruction and learning for those students who want to achieve. Additionally, the teachers' hands are tied when it comes to enforcing rules or punishing a student. Why? Because the student will claim "racism"...which could destroy the teacher's career. The school district is so worried about avoiding lawsuits and keeping a PC reputation, that they rarely side with the teachers when the race card is played.

Parents have complained en masse, to no avail at this point.

There is an undeniable cultural difference. It's the difference in the mindset of those who believe they are owed a living, and those who believe success is the result of hard work. This "the gov't should take care of me" mentality is taught and cultivated in the black community - and the Democrats work hard to preserve those racial envy so as to forward their agenda. The gov't would like us all to dumb down and be "Welfare queens" so they can control the population more efficiently.
Consider this quote:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship." (Source unconfirmed.)
So....Where do you think we are in this process?

Voters went to the polls to get their promised REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH and FREE HEALTHCARE. What they're getting is taxes, taxes, and more taxes on the job-creators. (Don't even get me started on the Cap and Trade racket.) Those
businesses cannot afford to stay in business now, or will be outsourcing those jobs overseas, where labor is cheaper. The people who voted Obama into office will be unemployed, and (shock!) totally dependent on the government. Hmmm. It almost seems deliberate, doesn't it?

JULY 1, 2009 12:11 AM
 Robert said...
Thank you for this post. My experience with Blacks from Africa is that their interest in learning was much more like the universal norm. I do not say, more like whites, because my experiences with Asian, Navajos, Aboriginies, and Middle Easterners, as well as Europeans, show at least to me that education and learning is a common experience for us all. My experience with Black Africans in our Physics Department at University hardly found them lacking, intelligence and education-wise. Is it perhaps that we have created in the Black American subculture the excuse not to excel, not to strive, not to contribute, but to only take?

JULY 1, 2009 12:21 AM
 Jay said...
Someone expressed belief in a genetic difference in intelligence between blacks and whites.

I personally don't for one moment believe that such a thing. Or at least, I don't believe that any such difference, if any exists, is significant.

And from what I've read, this is shown by studies. Black kids adopted by white families nearly match the white kids from white families in IQ tests. What little difference remains can easily be explained in terms of influences in societal and cultural expectations, and the influence of other kids with the same color of skin. I've no doubt black kids raised in white families want to fit in with other black kids.

That means dumbing yourself down.

Now, having said all of that, practically speaking, I've found differences between black people and white people.

It's all in attitude.

I grew up with an ideal notion that all people ought to be and basically are equal. I truly believed black people and white people were all the same.

Then I went into business for myself. And my eyes were opened.

I live in an area with a very small percentage of black people.

I'm nice to all my customers, but I've also always been especially careful to be nice to black customers (I'm white) because... why? No desire to give any offense or be thought of as having any negative racial attitude.

So... after a while... I realized that even though maybe 3% to 5% of my customers are black, black customers were causing nearly as many real problems for me as white customers.

An enlightening example is the couple who made a definite appointment with me at their house. I went to their house, nobody there. After about 15 minutes, I reached one of them at their cell phone. "Oh, I'll be right there."

I waited another half hour.

Finally, after 45 minutes of waiting when nobody ever showed up and not being able to recontact the customer by cell phone, I left. I simply can't spend my entire day waiting for no-shows.

A while later (I can't recall whether it was that day or the next), I got an anonymous call on my cell phone cussing me out in the most vile of language, in a very clear "black" accent.

These were the only black customers I'd dealt with recently.

Now to be fair, I can think of a white customer who was every bit as ugly. And I have black customers whom I love, who are wonderful people, as good as gold.

But the problem is this: why do black customers cause nearly as many problems as white customers, when fewer than 5% of my customers are black, when 95% of my customers are white, and when I've done everything possible to treat all customers - but especially black customers - with respect and royal care?

It's attitudinal, and it's just disproportionate.

JULY 1, 2009 1:16 AM
 Anonymous said...
Depressing post, but I have seen a lot of what was described. I have experience teaching, but only to military, so limited to 17 and up. I never saw this type of thing in my classes, but students like those described would never have made it that far.
I have, however, seen it in members of my own family. I have seen it in some of the neighborhoods I have lived in. I even saw it in college.
I have only found one thing in common every time.
Welfare.
It doesn't matter what form of welfare, it only seems to matter how much. The more people rely on it, the more drained they seem. There is no drive to succeed. It seems to me to be the worst form of slavery. And the ones caught in it resent the ones who provide the welfare. In a way I guess it dehumanizes them.
Other comments mentioned the difference between blacks here, and those coming here from other places. The difference is still welfare. In most other places in the world, there is none. You make it, or not, on your own. That often translates into success here.
It is not just blacks. I see the same thing reflected in every race. Some are just newer to welfare than others.
I have often considered teaching, but I'm getting old, not sure how long I would last.
I think that I would try to find a way to restore their self-esteem. Not by telling them that it's OK that they can't learn, but by making them earn it.

JULY 1, 2009 1:57 AM
 Anonymous said...
This IS the way Black kids are EVERYWHERE. Carribean people are different, American Blacks alkways have this "I am getting screwed and I can't excell " attitude.
The town I live in was all White when I moved here. it is becoming Black. I will move out when I can.
Black schools are always insane zoos.
Diversity and equality are lies. Blacks are not capable of living in a civilized manner. The few that can fir into society are the Freaks.

JULY 1, 2009 2:35 AM
 Anonymous said...
I was a substitute teacher for years as well as a History teacher for many years as well throughout Dade county. I worked in nearly every middle school and high school in the district. I won't tell you my race, I am neither Black nor White, but one thing I can tell you with absolute certainty is that the level of control and my ability to teach in ANY given class was in direct proportion to the ratio of Black students I had. If the class was 10% Black, just minor problems. 30% Black, things became increasingly difficult. 50% or greater and I suddenly felt as though I was a correctional officer rather than a teacher and I spent most of my time policing the classroom.

And I MUST point out here that the normal excuses that we are fed to try and explain these differences did NOT apply in my experiences. I might teach a class of poor Hispanics and the response from my students would be GREAT when compared to the Black students in the same school and in the same socioeconomic class. I became somewhat of an independent researcher over my years of teaching and I am absolutely convinced that the only differences that can attribute to this clear correlation were racial, since all other variables could be accounted for. As unpleasant of a conclusion as that might be for anyone to face, I think Blacks need to face this FACT more than anyone else. Their finger pointing will do NOTHING to address this issue. And for once they need to look WITHIN, rather than to simply blame the White man or the system.

For what it's worth.

A. Kahn

JULY 1, 2009 3:17 AM
 fitness training new orleans said...
I taught several years. The first couple of years I was very aware of the race of my students. One year around Thanksgiving a student came up to me and said, "You know I am the only white girl in class". I looked up and saw that she was right. I smiled. It was a revelation to me that I was unaware of the the race of my students. I was not blind. Some are tall, some are light, others dark, some wear glasses - I could see all that. What was different was that it was not uppermost in my mind when dealing with them. I was dealing with who they were not what their physical attributes were or what the sterotype was.

JULY 1, 2009 6:15 AM
 Architect said...
This can all be summed up in a few words: blacks have low intelligence, little empathy and less discipline.

Consider yourselves lucky that American blacks have a substantial intermingling of white DNA. African blacks are almost another, lesser species in their brute savagery.

JULY 1, 2009 7:29 AM
 Alexandra said...
I'm glad someone has the guts to tell the truth!

I am white with a little bit of Cherokee ancestry. I was in a gifted program in junior high school. All I saw were whites and Jews--there were no blacks in the program at my school. I can only remember one other girl in the program; the rest were boys.

The races are not all equal. Affirmative Action seems to be a way of tacitly acknowledging this. But your garden-variety lefty will say it's because otherwise blacks wouldn't have opportunities. Please. I'm all for equal opportunity--but I am not for forcing equal outcome!

To anyone complaining about stereotypes--I and others have found that at least 80% of the time, people do conform to their associated stereotypes!

We can't be afraid of being called "racist." Just let it bounce off. Anyone who plays the race card has issues--they are just trying to use their race to get what they want. They act like spoiled children.

After high school I enrolled in an administrative assistant course. I graduated with a 3.9 GPA and was the first student in that program, I was told, to have earned all A's. I was also the only white student in that particular session--everyone else was black.

(BTW the "women's movement" was not needed. I am a traditionalist and I can see that the feminist movement has just wreaked havoc on the family. Just thought I'd throw that in.)

JULY 1, 2009 7:34 AM
 Anonymous said...
"I have always believed that as a people, Europeans considering themselves superior and civil, should have the wisdom to at least attempted to share their "superiority" in the same way that teachers should share their superior knowledge with their students instead of berating them."

It is impossible to share anything, whether a "civil" "superior" European teacher with "superior knowledge" (to use your terminology) or anyone else, when the students' refusal to sit and be quiet creates a such a din, it is impossible to be heard.

Creators of racket and chaos deserved to be berated.
Those who practice self-control deserve praise.

JULY 1, 2009 7:40 AM
 Anonymous said...
Experience and thus real and pragmatic truth is of the essence.

I am from the only white (Caucasian) tribe of Africa.

Our earliest real experiences with blacks taught us that white survival and civilization will only be achieved if each racial group is allowed the freedom to rule itself and each living according to its own choices and way of life.

This however was found to be “racist” and a “human rights abuse” as:
The product of white culture is civilization with accountable government, quality people, brick houses, infra-structure, cars, trains and plains, industrialization, jobs, education, abundance, long and prosperous lives etc…
Where as,
The product of black culture is savage dictatorship with massive corruption, quantity people, mud huts, no infra-structure, walk or run on foot, subsistence farming, no education, poverty, short and miserable lives to the weak and the moderates and short but parasitically rich lives for the criminally powerful and connected few, etc…

This the rich white liberals found to be grossly unfair. Therefore while they are getting even richer, they devised laws, systems and approaches, to force the middle class white majorities of the world to embrace the in embraceable and to subsidize these black masses’ “need” to be as prosperous as whites, without the need for blacks to take on the same tasks, responsibilities or accountability.
The liberals just made it “fashionable” human rights to attach 50 plus black parasites to each white productive member of society…

Further the liberal white idiots decided that all peoples are the same and must be intermixed. As segregation became as wrong and “sinful” as “racism” and peoples’ and individuals’ right of freedom of expression, especially regarding race truths, and freedom of association were curtailed by unnatural laws, it became abundantly clear that this forced multi-culti experiment is dismally failing.

The white races are infected with false guilt towards blacks, because they are taught and brainwashed to believe that blacks are disadvantaged and savage because of white racism. At the same time laws are made to prohibit whites from discussing their own demise and to ridicule any and all whites that break from their mass media brainwashed state and see their demise rushing towards them. The white races’ education are being dumbed down, as white schools must now cater for blacks as well and if the curricula are not dumbed down, +-90% of blacks will fail. And that would be a sure sign of white racism, wouldn’t it…!?

The +- 10% of blacks who can compete with the white average, does not bother anyone. However as the majority of society or a race determines the “norm” neither the black 10% nor the whites as a whole is safe in such intermixed society.


IT IS TIME FOR EVERY FAIR AND BALANCED HUMAN BEING TO ACCEPT THAT ONE CAN ONLY HAVE WHAT ONE CAN EARN!

We do not allow blind, or crippled people in the national baseball or basketball team…
We do not force brilliant athletes to run with 50 kg sandbags on their backs so that fat and unfit couch potatoes can stand a chance to win an Olympic medal in a race against them…
We do not ignore or purposefully overlook the fact that locking up a few testosterone raging criminally inclined men with one beautiful young 14-year-old girl might lead to rape or gang rape…

Yet we bind all these handicaps to our own white youths.
We handicap their education and future.
We handicap their safety and security.
We handicap all their human rights.
We handicap their future, prosperity and happiness.
We even handicap their right to keep on breeding a pure version of their own kind!

All this we do in the name of “human rights”,
Trying to give to another kind,
The advantageous of our kind,
At the cost of our kind,
And destroying our kind,
And the advantageous achieved.

JULY 1, 2009 8:49 AM
 Marty Nemko said...
A couple of the comments incorrectly implied that I wrote the essay. I merely reposted it. And when I taught in a largely African-American middle school, while my experiences were indeed challenging, they were not as extreme as those reported by the author.

I plan, soon, to take the time to carefully read the comments, reflect on my knowledge of what works in education and attitude change, and write a post proposing what I would do to try to reduce the black-white/Asian achievement gap.

But for now, I welcome your benevolently derived comments, especially when they include your thoughts on how the gap can be reduced or eliminated.

JULY 1, 2009 9:02 AM
 Beth said...
To all the ignorant people blathering on about how black kids can't learn, take a look at the American Indian Charter School in Oakland and tell me again that miniority kids can't excel when properly motivated.

That school is number 5 in California as far as test scores go.

The only difference is that the school doesn't put up with any of the behavioral nonsense described above. Here is part of their school code.

"Our staff does not subscribe to the back swamp logic of minority students as victims. We will plow through such cornfield philosophy with common sense and hard work!

The staff of AIPCS does not preach or subscribe to the demagoguery of tolerance. Anyone who does not follow our rules will be sent packing with their rags and bags!

Squawkers, multicultural specialists, self-esteem experts, panhandlers, drug dealers, and
those snapping turtles who refuse to put forth their best effort will be booted out.

Boot-licking or self-promoting is not allowed by any politician who enters our classrooms.
Politicians should beware: teachers are on duty!

We do not believe standardized tests discriminate against students because of their
color. Could it be many of them have not been adequately prepared to take those tests?

The staff does not allow students to wear hats, gold chains, or ear-bobs in the building."

Most of our public schools in California could benefit from their approach.

And to the racist idiots (black and white) out there....my grandkids are half black and have been raised to be decent, hardworking US CITIZENS, not card carrying members a racial or ethnic group.

Teddy Roosevelt once warned that the only thing that could destroy this country was if we turned into a tangle of squabbling nationalities fighting each other for political power.

It's time to think of each other as Americans FIRST and FOREMOST.

As Erich Fromm (a Jewish psychologist who survived the Holocaust) said....there are two races, decent people and indecent people. God knows there are enough of the latter in each race and ethnic group to be an embarassment to us all.

Let's bring back the good old fashioned idea of shaming people for bad behavior. It my day, if you called someone a "no account" it was a big deal.

Cultural pressure has been supporting bad behavior for too long, time to turn it in our favor.

JULY 1, 2009 9:06 AM
 Anonymous said...
Having grown up in a black section of town I can reflect back on this story. The black kids, in my school, did best when they had a strict teacher. Back then it was legal for a teacher to strike children, and we all towed the line at certain grade levels. Some were strict, some were not.
At the time I understood everything, but now its different.
Most of those kids I went to school with are Dead, or in prison. One or two went on to college and made a life.

JULY 1, 2009 10:00 AM
 Anonymous said...
Very interesting essay, and I thank Marty for having the courage to post it.

The whole black underclass issue is one that's been bothering me a lot. It's very difficult not to save yourself the time and just steer clear of blacks in general, and if it can't be avoided, to keep the interaction as short and sweet as possible.

The contact almost invariably isn't worth the effort.

It's possible many are badly brought up, if they're brought up at all; others may not be well educated (and probably don't give a damn); some might just be mentally slow.

But I can't figure out why, no matter how nice you are (maybe that's taken as a sign of weakness), far too many blacks have this attitude - like a hatred of whites. They say and do things that no one white could get away with without getting fired.

This might just be a racist rant, except that there are relatively few blacks in the country, and there almost always is a PROBLEM when there's contact. How can a small percentage of the population be behind so much of the strife?

I don't dislike blacks. I don't dislike anyone for the color of their skin. But I will say that a sensible approach is CAUTION, and do everything possible to avoid contact. Give them a wide berth.

Your life will be a lot better and more pleasant for minimizing interaction. (and isn't it sad I have to say this? but isn't it even sadder that it's TRUE?)

JULY 1, 2009 10:16 AM
 Donat said...
I'm from Baltimore. There used to be some technic highschools with great reps until the 60s, when they became mostly black. Then they just became lousy black schools. No school that has become predominantly black has maintained a good academic reputation. Black professors who have been honest, have written about the apathy towards learning anything, not too different from Mr. Jackson's findings, except that these were college students and I would have thought were in school because they wanted to be.

Those people who say it's all "culture" and "we" (doubtless meaning whites) have "created" this black "culture" really need to re-read the article. There were white kids as low economically as the blacks, who were not very good academically. They still fell within a low normal range of what we are used to in white behavior. There have been raucus, poorly motivated white school kids for centuries. They just don't characterize the culture. They are not the norm, they are the exception. In PG county Maryland, the average income is one of the higher in the entire country.It is mostly black and many of them work in government jobs. The classrooms are no better, as a front-page article in the Washington Post shows. What the black principle goes through just to maintain order....no serious student could learn well in such an environment.
As for the Africans...I've know some that really are intelligent and capable of a high level of abstract and idealistic thinking, but they represent a tiny percentage of the total African population. This is a Continent where rape of the most ferocious kind (5 years with gunshot wounds in the vagina) is endemic. Where men who perpetrate it say they would rape family members if the "magic" required it. There are documentaries on this subject that you will never see on PBS. There are good people there, but the black population is possessed of a superstition and violence that we in this country (or almost anywhere else) cannot comprehend. This is a continent that had functioning, comfortable universities for blacks in places now called Zimbabwe and Sierra Leone. Former missionary school students recall their schooling fondly and say that blacks have since destroyed both the buildings and the educational system.
Sub-Saharan Africans never developed writing or even the wheel. There is no tradition of book learning or of abstract, high-level thinking. The closest might be some madrassas in Muslim areas. Out of a billion people you'll find a few bright ones just as you'll find a few Germans with rhythmn. But Africans left to their own devices do not create, or even maintain, civilization as we know it.

JULY 1, 2009 10:44 AM
 Alexandra said...
The gap CANNOT be closed. To say that it can be closed is to say that everyone's equal. No, we are not all equal!

There is a huge gap between me and my own sister! It cannot be closed due to how she is and how I am. I was in a gifted class, she was in special education. We were raised the same. She gets jealous of me, but she's going to have to learn to deal with it.

It's like trying to teach trigonometry to your average two-year-old because you think two-year-olds can be on the same level as twenty-year-olds. It just cannot be done!

No matter how much money is thrown at it, the gap can't be closed. Period. And I don't say this from a white supremacist standpoint, I say this from facts and observation.

Just hang it up. You can't change lead into gold.

JULY 1, 2009 10:56 AM
 Beth said...
"African blacks are almost another, lesser species in their brute savagery."

Oh really?

Let's see......Nazi Germany attempting to exterminate the lesser races, the killing fields of Cambodia, the massive slaughter of the Hindus by Muslim invaders, the rape of Nanking by the Japanese, the charming raiding habits of the Vikings, and so on ad infinitum.

Anyone with a minimal knowledge of history knows just how brutal human beings can be as a species, irrespective of race.

You, sir or madam, are an ignoramous.

JULY 1, 2009 11:09 AM
 Marty Nemko said...
Conservative, often very conservative perspectives have dominated the comments on this post. So I want here to issue a particular invitation to more liberal voices. My goal is to encourage a truly diverse conversation about how to close the achievement gap. Usually, such discussions have been overwhelmed by liberal perspectives. In this one, it has been the opposite. As I've perhaps too often said, I believe the best solutions come from considering the full range of benevolently developed ideas.

JULY 1, 2009 11:12 AM
 Beth said...
So you are saying that conservative voices are the ones saying blacks are incapable achievement?

I'd say it was the liberal voices, who seem to think that black students present some kind of racial "special problem".

You are just as biased as some of the commentators.

Conservatives believe that everyone deserves a chance to succeed through education and hard work.

The American Indian school in Oakland that has reached great achievements in education for "minority" students is conservative in its values.
They don't tolerate misbehavior in their school, and they do just fine.

You instill the values of self discipline, family, education, thrift, and hard work in ANY child and they will do well in life.

When the black community no longer has a 70% out of wedlock birth rate, when strong familes are the norm, when achievement is valued, when being on welfare is considered shameful, when working hard in school isn't considered to be "white" (and yes a friend's daughter was systematically harrassed at her school for just that reason), when wussy public school educators DEMAND that students behave themselves properly, then the problem will be solved.

It isn't rocket science for crying out loud.

JULY 1, 2009 11:39 AM
 Anonymous said...
I have been a teacher in an inner-city school and my experiences unfortunately jibe with those of Mr.Jackson (the author of the piece). It's not clear what constructive approach can be advocated as it seems just about everything has been tried -- and shown not to work. One possible dispiriting conclusion is that African-Americans are wired differently; perhaps they differ in some fundamental sense not only from Whites but from Mexicans, Native Americans, and Asians. If we go along with this conclusion for a moment, the policy implications are staggering. We would be talking again of segregated schooling. Yet I do not see a viable alternative at the moment. And incidentally, we see de facto segregated schooling across swathes of the USA.

JULY 1, 2009 12:05 PM
 Marty Nemko said...
Beth, I labeled those comments as "conservative," because they place all responsibility for the problem on the students and none on the larger society. Liberals generally place more blame for the achievement gap on what the schools and larger society are doing and not doing.

JULY 1, 2009 1:32 PM
 Anonymous said...
This is in parts:
Part One

I will share an experience I had with my Fresh Air son to came to my family every summer from Harlem. I will call him D.

Culture shock is putting it mildly but it was not negative because D gladly fell right into the atmosphere of our family. His running commentary on the difference between his life and the people in Harlem while he was living with us was heart breaking.

He'd throw back his head and close his eyes with a big smile on his face and I'd ask him what he's thinking. He would explain it's not thinking; it's smelling. He is smelling pine trees not garabage cooking in the sun.

JULY 1, 2009 1:35 PM
 Anonymous said...
Part 2

I prepared meals for him; family meals he was not served at home. He exercised every day and was worn out at night. At home he could not fall asleep. His grandmother would not let him out to play because of "mean people."

We had a pool and in order for him to hang with the big boys in the deep end, he had to learn to swim and tread water. His big brothers took turns teaching him to swim so he could play ball in the deep end. Once D looked at the eldest and asked him why he does not hit. D said noone was nice like that in Harlem. My son said, "You are." He denied it.

Anyone in the family who saw he needed to learn something, taught him. This was his life in the summer. Playing and learning - day in and day out.

I taught him to read and one of his favorite activities was sitting by the pond out back early in the morning and reading books with me and a cup of choclate. My husband taught the math facts by playing math games ater dinner. . It was serious; they played for money, so he had to learn fast.

JULY 1, 2009 1:36 PM
 Anonymous said...
Part 3


He loved his life with us and he wanted to stay. We would have taken him but he had a grandma and younger brother who loved him in Harlem.

When he was twelve I called him in the Spring and he told me he was not coming that summer. I asked him why and he did not want to say. So I had him put his grandmother on the phone and she asked him so I could hear the answer indirectly. What I heard was "you white." He did not usually talk "Black" with me.

He gave me a heads up at the end of his last summer with me. He said he was under pressure in Harlem for acting white. During this race conversation, he did not look me in the eyes. I said that we have to stay together, college will be here before he knows it and Dad has a plan for that. Nothing...

I never heard from D again. Harlem won. I called to speak to his grandmother after the summer was over, but the phone was disconnected.

I am not sorry or resentful towards him; I don't name the race thing that spoiled our routine as the meaning of him.

The removal of D from the Harlem culture and enviornment was central to his progress which points out to me that the Black inner city culture, as it has evolved since the 60's in the care of the radical left, is not serving the children.

The Black and White cultural excuses (expressed by the Black racialist up above) for the cultural failure of the inner city is a lie. Multiculturalism is a leftist invention to replace the American melting pot culture and they gave American Black inner city people the cultural gutter. They all vote Democrat so they can get "free" stuff - socialism - that is the point. You have to be kept stupid and small to expect so little.

These kids are Americans - it is time we treat them and expect them to act and be like Americans - from the time they are babies. If that is "acting white" like constitutional freedom is "white"; it's time we take the race lable off of it and just name it American.

We have to tell the excuse makers; the political, academic and professional race hustlers, who do their best to keep Blacks in a separate racist gutter to stop and we have to remove their self annointed race authority. Just because they are Black, does not mean they get to own and abuse the Black tribe with their left wing drive for power, stupidity and self interest. Since segregation died, Whites got free from the Left. It is time to set Blacks free, too. Classical American liberal ideals is the way to get back on track! Time for the "New Left" to go the way of the segregationists they replaced!

JULY 1, 2009 1:37 PM
 Levi said...
Mr. Nemko
Unfortunatly there is no "liberal" solution that will solve this problem. This is because of the flawed premise that we are all genetically the same. We are not.

When you accept that there are differences in the races, then the answer is simple.

Seperate but EQUAL. Why is this concept so horrible?

Look at the performance of our schools compared to the rest of the world since desegregation.
If in fact blacks learn different than whites/asians/whomever, then how can one group succeed while the other is present? Why should teachers have to use two different forms of teaching for the same subject matter? What are the white kids supposed to do while teacher has to switch to her "black" teaching style?

The problem is liberals dont want equal rights, They want equal RESULTS. This is impossible, because we are all different.

JULY 1, 2009 2:22 PM
 Marty Nemko said...
A reader wrote a private comment to me, which I so agree with that I want to state it here.

He said that it's one thing to describe your experiences and then suggest ways the situation might be ameliorated. But it's another to, after describing experiences, to claim it's hopeless--that it's a waste of time and money trying to improve the situation. That's what, for me, crosses the line, into hate speech.

JULY 1, 2009 4:49 PM
 Anonymous said...
Like it or not, the differences in culture are obvious and absolute. I live in a county where whites, as of our last census, make up 47% of the population-blacks are roughly 17%-Hispanics are 17%-and the rest are diverse. Blacks are arrested nearly 2-1 over nearly every other ethnic group---I know this because I have worked in law enforcement for 10 years. I wish these statistics were not true, but they are. Blacks think every enforcement of the law that directly affects them is racially motivated. They are arrested because of their color and not their guilt. That this begins while they are young and in school is no surprise at all. They are their own worst enemies.

JULY 1, 2009 6:26 PM
 Beth said...
"because they place all responsibility for the problem on the students and none on the larger society"

Thanks for the clarification.
However, I don't agree that conservatives ses it as solely an individual responsibility issue. Some more reading on the conservative philosophy may be in order?

This is a multifacted problem-from the individual to the community at large.

The PARENTS of these children have failed to provide them with a proper upbringing.

The KIDS have failed themselves by foolishly buying into a cultural ideal that is destroying them, and by dragging down anyone who tries to escape that toxic culture.

The SCHOOLS have failed to apply high standards and strict discipline from grade school on. You can bet if bad behavior wasn't tolerated starting in elementary school, many of these kids wouldn't be the basket cases they are now. I am shocked that a student felt safe threating a teacher, and that there were no repercussions....and after reading about LAUSD teaching experiences I can see that teachers get NO SUPPORT from administrators for dealing with discipline problems.

SOCIETY AT LARGE has failed by undermining the nuclear family, fostering an entitlement culture, and failing to use social pressure to penalize antisocial behavior.
It is failing by not providing alternatives to students who want to escape educational hellholes (e.g. witness the DC voucher program that is going to be scrapped by the current administration in order to placate entrenched educational interests).

All these factors need to be addressed.

JULY 1, 2009 7:05 PM
 Stephen said...
As a white male who moved to the Mississippi Delta to teach black kids, I witnessed much of what Mr. Jackson writes about. Yet, I am appalled. It is obvious that he had contempt for his black students, and I'm sure they knew it. These are not the words of anyone who has any business teaching America's youth.

My experience in the Delta was very difficult. Like Jackson, I faced a situation where apathy, violence, and irrational behavior ran rampant. Everyday students entered a learning environment riddled with internal and external distractions. However, I cannot accept the picture that Jackson paints. My room was extremely diverse - and I don't mean racially (all of them were black). I had nerds, suck-ups, jocks, class clowns, musicians, bullies, book worms, thugs, etc. Not all of them worked hard for me all the time, but they all cared because they knew I cared for them. They didn't want to disappoint me. In my final year at the school, 13 of my 29 students tested into the honors program for the following year. They worked their butts off for me and they were rewarded with a chance to have a better learning environment, a better education, and a potentially better future. There were about five students that were in danger of failing my class, and they stayed after school everyday the second half of the year to get help. True, I had to chase some of them down from time to time, but they did the work and all of them passed (One of them earned a B his final quarter- his first ever). I had meaningful relationships with all of my students that extended beyond my classroom walls.

There were fights in my classroom. There was occasionally disorder. There was frustration from both me and my students. I had to deal with pregnancy, drugs, and weapons at one point or another. They didn't always like me, and God knows I didn't like all of them all the time. However, they were my kids and it was my responsibility to give them everything I had.

There is a huge achievement gap in our educational system. However, the root cause is not race as Jackson would have you believe. It is a culture of poverty that is prevalent in minority school districts. The essay hints at this by talking about their, at times, distorted world view. I recommend a book entitled "A Framework for Understanding Poverty" by Ruby K. Payne. My black students lived in a different world than I did. They came from homes where education was not valued. They had parents that made terrible decisions and, if present, taught them lessons that ran counter to our middle-class value structure. They had terrible teachers who came out of the same educational system that we're criticizing. And then they'd go home to neighborhoods where survival is a greater concern than homework.

I highly doubt Jackson ever visited the home or neighborhood of any of his black students to see this. He said himself that he had no meaningful relationship with any of his black students. I'm guessing that a big part of the problem in his classroom was himself. Students need a reason to care.

Marty, you want to encourage "real" dialogue on the issue, but I don't see a one-sided and obviously close-minded essay written out of frustration and anger to be helpful. The reality is that our school system is in crisis. It is a complex issue and race belongs in the dialogue, but we need to understand that race is not the problem. Bad teachers, bad parents, and bad cultural norms in poverty stricken areas are problems. It saddens me that Jackson's experience in a black school brought him to the conclusions that it did, but I think it was irresponsible of him to publish an essay of such stereotypical hyperbole.

JULY 1, 2009 7:24 PM
 Anonymous said...
After all the slavery and Jim Crow laws the whites still continue to abuse the blacks. The most invidious present form is so called "affirmative action". Blacks are told that they are equal and human. This theory is shattered by the collision with reality.
Just because the African Americans attain a set of pidgin English-like words does not them an equal make.
In steps the government, and housing, jobs, college degrees are then allotted.
Look up whatever happened to the proverbial 40 acres and a mule program utilization.
Nowadays, adjusted to inflation, give the African tourists in America an Escalade Cadillac with 24" shiny rims, and $50,000 cash a month.

I think we all know what the wonderful results will be. The sacred bond with the effort and reward must never ever be broken. The government "thinks" that propping the Africans up will allow them to catch up.
In my 40 years of experience with the Africans, majority of them are not capable of comprehending the concept of effort and reward correlation.

No less of a humanitarian than Albert Schweitzer, Nobel Peace Prize winner said after a life amongst the noble prototypes of mankind:
"I have given my life to alleviate the sufferings of Africa. There is something that all white men that have lived here must learn and know;
that these individuals are a sub-race; they have neither the
intellectual, mental or emotional abilities to equate or share in any of the functions of our civilization. I have given my life to try and bring them the advantages which our civilization must offer, but I have become well aware that we must retain this status; white, the superior, and they the inferior, for whenever a white man seeks to
live among them as their equal, they will either destroy him or devour him, and they will destroy all his work; and so for any existing relationship or for any benefit to this people let white men from anywhere in the world who would come to help Africa remember that you must continually retain the status; you the master, and they inferior,
like children that you would help or teach. Never fraternize with them as equals, never accept them as your social equals; or they will devour you; they will destroy you."

JULY 1, 2009 9:31 PM
 Anonymous said...
I have to say that after reading the comments on this page, what really scares me is this utterance of the term "hate speech", as if merely speaking one's mind constitutes a crime. This is a slippery slope into the bowels of a tyranny that western civilization has spent centuries attempting to drag it's self out of.

If we allow unpopular opinions to become ILLEGAL opinions, then we are no better than all those despotic regimes around the world that we decry so loudly over ill treatment of their own citizens.

Regardless of how much an opinion hurts to hear, we must allow it to be spoken and heard, lest we do our Founding Fathers a dis-service they would have branded as unAmerican.

One last thing: If anyone on here thinks for a second that this subject would be discussed on a blog frequented mainly by blacks without subsequent anti white racial epithets and threats of violence towards whites tossed about like so much ordinary conversational fodder, they're deluding themselves and are the epitome of naivete.

JULY 1, 2009 9:33 PM
 Anonymous said...
I am in awe at the ignorance of Mr. Jackson. I am a female who teaches students who are from a lower socio-economic area. I do very well with discipline. The key is mutual respect and seeing through many facades. Most students are hiding troubled homelives. His rantings reveal a less than adequate understanding of dialects. He also does not see the wonderful opportunity of educating students who obviously need to understand the complex world around them. I am so glad that he has found a suitable audience. He really missed an opportunity to join a racist organization and wear a white sheet. He should use an appropriate vocabulary. Haven't we adopted better terms than black, white, and Mexican? I grieve for a man that is that ignorant. I hope he retires soon. I hope he avoids transfering his racist and sexist views. I have taught for 21 years, and I love teaching different ethnicities. I abhor ignorance from all sectors.

JULY 1, 2009 10:00 PM
 Anonymous said...
None of these posts examines the RELATIONSHIP between blacks and whites – which is formed by a mutually interlocking set of pathologies that reinforce one another in a feedback loop.

There will be no progress until this perverted relationship is analyzed and exposed.

1) racial differences are real, and there was never any evidence that all races had the same cognitive abilities, either quantitatively or qualitatively, nor the same temperament, the same language ability the same capacity for empathy or cooperation, etc..

2) Whites are committed to the fiction of racial equality because it is the most straightforward and decent solution to designing a society where different races can live in harmony.

3) The current framework simultaneously a) treats blacks as though they were mentally inferior (affirmative action, special protected status), while at the same time b) immediately destroying any white person who says out loud that blacks tend to be mentally limited in comparison to whites.

4) This means that the United States is living in a state of enforced schizophrenia.

5) With a few encouraging exceptions, most blacks cannot compete in a white society.

6) This leaves them with the option of extorting the system for special protected status and special benefits, but does not give them the tools to catch up cognitively.

7) Blacks do sincerely hate whites, but not because whites abuse them. (Whites endure shocking levels of black-on-white violence while at the same time spending billions trying to lift blacks up our own level. This is NOT how racists behave.) Blacks hate whites because they feel inferior, because they are dependent on us.

8) An honest discussion of race cannot exclude the possibility that evolution has favored higher mental development in one race over another – which is what Charles Darwin said and believed.

9) Until the censorship ban is lifted on discussions concerning the biological, physical, physiological, mental, sexual, etc. differences between the human races, we will to tread water without progress as we've done for the past half-century.

10) Most importantly of all, European Americans (for that is what we are) must assert our group identity, our collective and civil rights, and our pride in our heritage. This is not racism, nor white supremacy, but instead a simple precondition for survival.

11) Whites are a SMALL and rapidly dwindling MINORITY of the world's population, and we are rapidly being pushed into minority status in Europe and in North America.

12) In order for European style civilization to survive, Europeans will have to survive as a strong, proud community.

13) Creating the most advanced, the most sophisticated, the most free societies in the history the world is nothing to be ashamed of.

14) Finally, if whites/Europeans do not start having adequate numbers of children, we will go extinct no matter what other factors are in play.

JULY 2, 2009 3:02 AM
 Anonymous said...
The author of this article, this teacher, does not seem like he really wanted to teach.
He seems so immersed in his own racist ideals that he is not even trying. I went to a predominately black school and experienced a few of the things he described, speaking out in class, some students having difficulty with the material etc. But not to this degree, no teacher I’ve ever had would have accepted this behavior described by Mr. Jackson. Nor would a teacher simply give up if he was not getting through to a particular student. I’ve had and seen some dedicated teachers in my time and they were of all races.

Misbehaving students does not only fall on one race it applies to every race all over the world. I cannot imagine the students I went to school with speaking in that manner, how in the world did they make it through each grade if they could not articulately complete a sentence? I was given every opportunity to succeed and took advantage of them. And I am not a rarity, it was common. All of my family members went to predominately black schools and they are succeeding in their given field, as well as the students I went to school with. This article seems to me a least to perpetuate a way of thinking, not bring about change, not bring about deep thinking, not even a way to bring about understanding, but a racist man giving his racist views.

JULY 2, 2009 8:53 AM
 Anonymous said...
"SOCIETY AT LARGE has failed by undermining the nuclear family, fostering an entitlement culture, and failing to use social pressure to penalize antisocial behavior. Etc."

No, Beth, "society" has not failed. Liberal politicians that insist in using our school kids as guinea pigs in their cockamamie social engineering schemes have failed.

Unforch, voters are too stupid to understand this, and don't vote these morons out of office. Just this past November, they stupidly voted in a whole bunch of these libtards.

Keep on doing what you've been doing; keep on getting what you're getting.

JULY 2, 2009 11:39 AM
 Anonymous said...
You guys are blinding yourselves.
We have, through scientific methods, found genetic differences between races that cause one to be more violent, or intelligent than another.

We are too politically correct to implant measures to address such genetic differences despite the fact that implanting such measures might be the only way to achieve true equality.

There are reasons why Africans that have yet to experience western influence have no written language, technology, and live in dwellings that even a beaver could build.

I've been in schools all over the place. USA, Canada, Australia, and South Korea. Guess what race of kids, in every one of these countries, cause the most trouble?
Blacks.

Now, some of you're blaming this on poverty, etc. Although finance might have some sort of an influence, when seeing a recent analysis of SAT scores based on income and race, you'll start to believe otherwise. In fact, according to statistics, on average black children who come from $100k+ incomes score LESS than white children from $20k incomes.

America SHOULD revamp its educational system to address the genetic inferiority of certain minorities. It has worked wonders for White and Asian students because the system was meant for genetically superior races.

Perhaps a better idea would be to establish a separate system of education, but what are the odds of that happening in these politically correct states?

JULY 2, 2009 3:03 PM
 Anonymous said...
In the 1980’s I spent a year working as a substitute teacher at public schools in a major East Coast city, an experience that allowed me to see a spectrum of schools, ranging from decent to intolerable. The really bad schools were always predominately black – similar to what Mr. Jackson describes. The others were far more manageable with some attempt at academics; these were schools in which there was a sizable white or Asian minority. Teachers, mostly white, were essentially baby sitters making good pay but highly stressed out. In one school the principal begged me to return. “Just keep them from hurting themselves” he implored. At another school the elevator operator, spotting a new face, commented: “You’re NOT going to have a good day”! When I asked her what she had meant she told me that they had recently employed an ex boxer as a sub. The ex heavyweight couldn’t take it; he resigned after a few days. The elevator operator was right. My middle school students were completely recalcitrant. There was one white girl in that class who was taunted mercilessly by her classmates. I’ll never forget the misery she underwent merely because she was white. These were just a few of many eye opening experiences. All of the schools were acceptable from the perspective of facilities – a reality that convinced me that money is not the issue. Students do not learn more because they have a carpet on the floor or better projectors. They learn when they come to school willing to make the effort and are guided by responsible teachers. The problem is cultural and I have no idea how you change an entire culture while denying its reality. Unfortunately we live a big lie in the US. We talk about ‘diversity’ when we all know that the only way to get ahead, to get out of the ghetto and live a better life, is to adopt the values of the majority. We can’t say that, though, as it goes against the PC grain. Instead we perpetuate a lie which in turn perpetuates an underclass.

JULY 2, 2009 3:34 PM
 Anonymous said...
Why the fixation on education, it has never made anyone more intelligent.
It's wrong to take money from whites and spend it on blacks. Think of all the talented white kids who could have benefited, what a waste, a racist waste of money. As whites become more of a minority it will change, but what a waste.

JULY 2, 2009 3:44 PM
 Anonymous said...
Marty - this guy's claim that the response of some posters who throw their hands in the air and give up is "hate speech" is politically correct nonsense. Who is this guy? The hate thought hallway monitor in the sky?

Unless the person who spoke is filled with hatred for Black people, their comments can not be decribed honestly and correctly as "hate speech". Ideas can be described as stupid or mean, but that requires and argument to justify that opinion.

Hate speech is an orwellian term and smear tatic created by the far left to shut everyone up but them so they can be the self annointed ones. "Oh, I better not say what I think and what I have experienced or someone (the usual suspects) will call me a hate speecher and get me fired; get me beaten up; get me harassed; get me kicked out of school..."

Interesting how the "journalist" contacts you and strikes a tad of fear in your heart and you find yourself trying to prove you are not a racist; just want to talk openly about race. "Getting uppity there whitey? We'll pay you a visit and examine your racial attitudes?" What planet did these authoritarian bimbos come from and how did they steal the title of American liberal!

JULY 2, 2009 6:24 PM
 Marty Nemko said...
As I commented earlier, I have not been in a heavily African-American high school for decades and would welcome teachers at such schools posting a video of their classroom in action. While, of course, the presence of a camcorder will affect the representativeness of what got recorded, I think viewing such videos could be instructive.

JULY 2, 2009 6:42 PM
 Stokely said...
Marty, you mentioned that, because the essay author and many commenters conclude that the situation is hopeless, they "cross[] the line into hate speech." The assumption underlying this is that this particular problem, no matter how severe and thoroughgoing experience has shown it to be, can be solved - that it is not hopeless. For that, I admire your faith in human potential. Is there anything that could make you accept the proposition that the gap is inate and irremediable? Theoretically, assuming you did accept that conclusion, would expressing it still be hate speech? I suspect that a lot of people actually believe just that, whether they know it or not.

Regarding solutions, the only way to level the playing field is to bring higher-achieving students down. I recommend hiring additional faculty to punch all white and asian children in the throat every morning at 8:15 a.m. The resulting inability to concentrate should bring about a rough equivalence in scores and finally salve our white guilt. Everybody's happy!

JULY 2, 2009 7:44 PM
 Marty Nemko said...
In another attempt to avoid commenters'(ahem) black and white statements on this issue, I want to briefly describe my experiences with the two African-Americans who are currently in my life. My friend, Jeffrie, is in my view, unquestionably smart, hard-working, ethical, quiet, and reflective. My engineer on my KGO radio show, Anthony, is just a dream: totally professional yet relaxed, and he works hard to prepare for each show. He and I get the job done while having a great time working with each other--we spend a lot of time during commercials telling each other jokes and just generally having a relaxed good time. While, like the essayist and a number of the commenters, I have had some negative experiences with a disproportionate percentage of blacks, I'd be the first to protest if someone like Jeffrie or Anthony were to be prejudiced against.

I caution all commenters again against making statements about "all" blacks, indeed "all" people of any racial or ethnic group.

JULY 2, 2009 7:46 PM
 Marty Nemko said...
As I've written, when the comments slow down, I plan to reread them all, do some thinking, and propose what I believe would be the wisest approach to the problem. But I know that I do NOT believe the problem is hopeless. I believe more thoughtful, out-of-the-box, potent, yet always ethical approaches are required, which I hope to offer.

JULY 2, 2009 7:55 PM
 Anonymous said...
Let me be blunt. Blacks are, as a group, less intelligent than Whites. Every standardized test used in the last hundred years shows a consistent and statistically significant gap between Blacks at the low end and Whites and Asians at the high end. This intelligence deficit is caused, at least in part, by genetic differences. Therefore, nothing can really ever be done to close this achievement gap.

The Left, however, refuses to accept this reality, and they (and their media allies) will denounce anyone who speaks this truth as a "racist." So no elected official who actually, you know, wants to be elected can say these things. Because of this, we are stuck in a position where all we can do is hope that some miraculous new educational reform or policy will magically change the status quo.

It's not going to happen, folks. Fifty years from now, this racial academic achievement gap will remain. You can try to paper it over with "social promotion" and "Affirmative Action" and a massive infusion of federal monies into "disadvantaged" school districts, but the end result will be the same as it is now.

Yes, there are exceptions. There are exceptions to every rule. But the rule remains.

This isn't the way I want the world to be, but it is an honest reporting of the facts as they stand.

JULY 2, 2009 9:21 PM
 Anonymous said...
The anonymous poster who commented on July 1, 2009 10:00 PM is typical of the left-liberal mindset. Anyone who holds a politically-incorrect opinion on the subject of race (or at least any *White* person who does) is denounced as a "racist" and labeled "ignorant." In fact, the commenter herself uses the term "ignorant" three times in just one paragraph!

"Ignorant" has to be the most overused (and misused) word in the English language today. The word "ignorant" doesn't mean rude, or socially-conservative, or politically-incorrect. The actual meaning of the word is "lacking in knowledge about a subject." It's quite clear that the author of the essay, as a long-time teacher, is not lacking in knowledge about the subject he wrote about. You simply don't like the conclusions he draws from the experiences he's had.

We live in scary times indeed when the act of simply stating an *informed* opinion on a subject - but an opinion that is not popular among the elites - gets one accused of the equivalent of thought-crimes. Then we wonder why White people are so terrified of having an open and honest discussion about race. We are labeled "cowards" by our own government (Attorney General Eric Holder) for not discussing the subject of race, but then we're demonized as hate-mongers when a few of us do stand up and speak our minds. It's a catch-22, that Whites are destined to lose every time, no matter what we do. The entire system is gamed against us.

JULY 2, 2009 9:47 PM
 Anonymous said...
I've been reading the comments and some people have mentioned that if a teacher demands cooperation, he/she will receive it no matter what.

I posted an earlier comment about the fact that I attended inner city schools in Los Angeles growing up, and I can tell you, from personal experience, that all the discipline in the world will not reach some individuals.

There were certain classes that we didn't have a teacher in at all, only substitutes. They'd stick around for two weeks or so until they'd had enough and then they'd leave and another would take their place.

There were teachers who tried to send kids out into the hall or to the principal's office for discipline, only to find them off doing their own thing. I've even seen students threaten substitutes with physical violence. I had an English class in eighth grade where the teacher just put her head down and went to sleep while the whole class did whatever they wanted, give each other tattoos, throw supplies out the window, make out, drink, etc.

The schools I went to were out of control. At the time, I thought it was funny. Today, I wouldn't send my own son to them under penalty of death.

JULY 2, 2009 10:52 PM
 Anonymous said...
That was a scary piece of writing. Considering your demographic trends, I honestly think the United States is a doomed nation.

JULY 2, 2009 11:06 PM
 Anonymous said...
Stephen, it's glaringly obvious that you didn't bother reading all of the essay and instead wanted to jump Mr. Jackson because you quickly perceived his essay to be nothing more than hateful literature. Do you honestly think he decided to teach in this school for a number of years if he truly disliked African Americans? Why would he stay there for so long if this were the case? Could it instead be that he was just too worn down after trying awfully hard to get his students to learn and yet they never did? How do you know that Mr. Jackson was the problem in the classroom when many of the people who've posted comments said that they've had very similar experiences? A lot of comments, and even those by Marty himself, believe that Mr. Jackson was not being inherently racist nor they think that Mr. Jackson immediately give up and decided to paint such a stark picture of black culture because he couldn't truly teach his students. How is it irresponsible of Mr. Jackson for him to publish what he perceives to be his genuine understanding, coming from many years of teaching mind you, and correct assessment of a predominately black school? You can, by all means, offer your opinion, but you're doing no better than what you think Mr. Jackson is doing, that is you're saying his essay is pointless and offers no help in terms of trying to identify the problem associated with schools like this one. Marty himself thinks that reading such experiences, whether they are in fact biased because of some developed racism, are still important in identifying the larger problem with America's public school system in such areas. I truly believe that Mr. Jackson really did try to teach and care about his students, because if that weren't the case then why would he go to such a school or even become a teacher for that matter? I felt this essay was humbling, because so many of us never attended such a school, and we can hopefully prevent this from happening in the near future.

JULY 2, 2009 11:28 PM
 writeratp said...
Dear Mr. Jackson I'm 38 yrs. old and it sounds like things haven't changed a bit since I went to school; and your essay really tells it like it is. I transferred from an all white school where I made A - B honor roll to a all black school my sophomore year of high school.I'd like to mention at both schools I was a Varsity football starter, and at the latter: the only white kid on the
team. Everything in Mr.Jackson's essay is true. every class I had looked like: a none moving section of "Mardi Gra" in the class room. It was impossible to teach let
alone learn in that atmosphere. Someday you would have: 3
guys gambling, different cliques of girls carrying on conversations, multiple cut-ups, the usual bunch that gave the teacher hell for that day, and, believe it or not sleepers. Pretty soon their not going to be able to
find anyone to teach at predominantly black high-schools.
I was never bothered physically because I said before, " I was a varsity football starter, but I seen a lot of kids that were terrified. I think African-American kids need to be sent through some kind of boot-camp type atmosphere before starting High-school to teach them
respect.

JULY 3, 2009 2:54 AM
 Anonymous said...
All I cans say as a white person who attended a predominantly all black school in nyc as a youngster is, "the article is on point and my education ruined by blacks"

JULY 3, 2009 4:30 AM
 bashzilla said...
I don't understand- why does Mr. Jackson assume he deserves respect? It's clear he doesn't respect his class, treating them as a whole or dividing them by gender, so it seems obvious to me that they should respond in turn.
He doesn't do anything when the class gets out of hand, or if he does try to calm the class, he doesn't do enough, which seems to me to signal he's an easy teacher to mess with.
I've been in so many classes like this, I find it much easier to sympathize with the students than the teacher. If he's in over his head, and is aware of that, why does he keep pushing through? If the students have made it clear that they don't respect him enough to believe anything he could teach worth learning, why doesn't he pass the mantle?
I've had so many teachers who believe they can pull a Freedom Writer that this article is, frankly, more embarrassing than inflammatory. As teachers, you're not expected to change our behaviour, you're expected to give us information. Everything else, we'll learn on our own, just like we've done before. No one likes having someone elses' idea of normal shoved down their throats- just ask Mr. Jackson. Grillz and rimz are so bizzare to him he needs to add a side-note, as if the idea is from another planet rather than a different neighborhood.
Maybe if he had laid down ground rules and upheld them, he could have gotten a little more respect.
Or, maybe, if he had been a more capable teacher. I don't think his white students like him any more than his black students did, but they've been taught that it's polite to talk behind someones' back- I'm sure if he borrowed someone's notebook and looked for the nasty caricature of his mole, teeth, or hairstyle, he'd find it.

JULY 3, 2009 5:29 AM
 Anonymous said...
We had a choice in the 60's to go with a constitutional based remedy to bringing racial equality or following the Left's goal of using race to cleanse American culture and end constitutional rule.

The American constitution comes with a culture and that is what we call white. King wanted to expand that culture beyond race. The Left wanted to keep that culture separate and named it "racist". They invented an anti-constiutional and anti-white culture for minorities.

So here we are. It explains all the changes that have been made in education and in law that is outside the ideals the majority set out to acheive with King. Get it back!

JULY 3, 2009 6:35 AM
 Joseph Anthony said...
I also am a white male who teaches in a majority black school. I hate to say it but I think black culture epitomizes failure. Most black students want to grow up to play for the NBA or be a Rap star. Just how realistic is that?Black students who do well as ridiculed for "acting white" by their fellow blacks. I do have a few high achieving blacks but in every single case they usually have a father and mother at home who make them study and are concerned about their education.
Most black students are being raised by their grandmother after their birth mother has fobbed them off so they can continue their irresponsible lifestyle.Children are just a government check to most of these teen black mothers.
Is there racism public schools? What exactly constitutes racism? At lunch students self segregate themselves.Its a matter of choice, not because some evil white racist makes them sit in certain areas among their own people.
Most white males now dress like blacks and listen to Rap music. Interracial dating among the races is increasing if we define interracial dating as white females and black males. I have yet to see a white male date a black female.
Yes, there are some whites who disapprove of interracial dating and stick to their own. Its not the country boys like you might suspect, but those who listen to Heavy Metal or adopt a Gothic lifestyle tend to be the most racially conscious among whites.
But no matter how liberals might think white racism is all prevalent they would be blown away by how black people feel about whites, and how the darker blacks treat the lighter skinned blacks.Blacks cannot take responsibility for their own failures and everything that happens to them is because of white people and racism. I kid you not!That is what they believe! If you want to talk about racism, hatred, bigotry, and intolerance, whites can't hold a torch to blacks!

JULY 3, 2009 8:40 AM
 Anonymous said...
Black people (men, women, and children) make up only about 12% of the USA, which logically makes "crime-age" black men ONLY about 6% or less of the US population (probably more like 3% or 4%), but somehow only 6% or less of the population commits over 52% of all murders, over 32% of all rapes, over 56% of all robberies, and over 34% of all aggravated assaults in the USA.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_43.html

When viewing the stats linked above, be aware that the FBI and USDOJ count Mestizos (the proper ethnic term for most "Mexicans" or "Latinos") as being WHITE, which unfairly raises the reported "white crime rate" much higher than it actually is.

Most Police Departments in the USA also do the same thing. Don't believe me? Check out the Sex Offender page of the Grand Prairie, Texas (a large suburb of Dallas) Police Department. Every Mestizo is categorized as being "white".

http://www.grandprairiepolice.org/sexoffender/75050.htm

Just about every state and local agency does this. Here are some examples from Washington state. Do these guys look white to you???

ml.waspc.org/offender.aspx?pid=292821&name=Garcia,%20Juvencio%20John&address=17xx%20Independence%20RD&city=Outlook%20&zip=98938

ml.waspc.org/offender.aspx?pid=1094963&name=Garcia,%20Israel%20Trevino&address=13xx%20Summerfield%20DR%20SE&city=Lacey%20&zip=98513

Again, this unfair and inaccurate classification of non-whites as being "white" wrongly inflates the "white crime rate", especially "white sex offender rate" FAR HIGHER than it actually is in reality.
---------

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/bvvcpr.htm

"Black Americans accounted for 13 percent of the U.S.
population in 2005 ...but were the victims of 49 percent of all homicides. Among single victim-single offender homicides, about 93 percent of black victims were murdered by black offenders."

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/bvvc.htm

"Blacks were victims of an estimated 805,000 nonfatal violent crimes and of about 8,000 homicides in 2005."

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND that 93% of those 8,000 black people killed in 2005 were killed BY OTHER BLACKS.

So it is now shown beyond doubt that the real danger posed to blacks comes from other blacks, and not from "racist whites".

From the US Department of Justice:

http://ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cvusst.htm

Go to the "Victims and Offenders" and download the pdf document for 2005. Then go to table 42. It states:

"Type of crime and race of victim" for "Rape/sexual assault" : White only - Number of single-offender victimizations - 111,490- Percieved Race of Offender - Black - 33.6%."

33.6% of 111,490 is 37,460.

Here are the numbers for black victims of rape and sexual assault:

"Type of crime and race of victim for "Rape/sexual assault" : Black only - Number of single-offender victimizations - 36,620- Percieved Race of Offender - White - 0.0%"

So there you go, plain as day. According to the US Department of Justice, in the year 2005 alone black men raped at least 37,460 white women, and in the same year white men raped less than ten black women.

Therefore, statistically, over 100 white women are being raped every day by black men.

If you add in the rate of rape in African countries (raping babies to "cure" AIDS, etc), the numbers become so astronomical that they approach the innumerable.

JULY 3, 2009 9:11 AM
 Anonymous said...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3455741

"Serum testosterone levels in healthy young black and white men.
Ross R, Bernstein L, Judd H, Hanisch R, Pike M, Henderson B.

Blacks in the United States have the highest prostate cancer rate in the world and nearly twice that of whites in the United States. The 2:1 black-to-white ratio in prostate cancer rates is already apparent at age 45 years, the age at which the earliest prostate cancer cases occur. This finding suggests that the factor(s) responsible for the difference in rates occurs, or first occurs, early in life. Testosterone has been hypothesized to play a role in the etiology of prostate cancer, because testosterone and its metabolite, dihydrotestosterone, are the principal trophic hormones that regulate growth and function of epithelial prostate tissue. This report gives the results of assays of circulating steroid hormone levels in white and black college students in Los Angeles, CA. Mean testosterone levels in blacks were 19% higher than in whites, and free testosterone levels were 21% higher. Both these differences were statistically significant. Adjustment by analysis of covariance for time of sampling, age, weight, alcohol use, cigarette smoking, and use of prescription drugs somewhat reduced the differences. After these adjustments were made, blacks had a 15% higher testosterone level and a 13% higher free testosterone level. A 15% difference in circulating testosterone levels could readily explain a twofold difference in prostate cancer risk."

======
http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theedrich/JP_Rushton/Race.htm

Average Differences
Among Blacks, Whites and Orientals:

Brain Size:

Cranial capacity

Blacks: 1,267
Whites: 1,347
Orientals: 1,364


Cortical neurons (millions)

Blacks: 13,185
Whites: 13,665
Orientals: 13,767

====
http://www.anthropogeny.com/A%20New%20Theory%20of%20Sudden%20Infant%20Death%20Syndrome.htm

African women produce more testosterone than white women. This is very difficult to find in current journals. I know of one group of endocrinologists who measured testosterone in African American women and European American women and found much higher levels of testosterone in the African Americans, but did, or would not, publish. The following is the best I could find.

Dada ,O.A., et al., "17 Beta-estradiol, Protesterone and Testosterone in the Normal Menstrual Cycle of Nigerians," (Int J Gynaecol Obstet 1984; 22: 151)
============


"Circulating blood levels of estradiol, progesterone and testosterone are reported in 17 normally menstruating Nigerian women. The pattern of secretion and the range of levels of estradiol and progesterone are similar to those reported in other ethnic groups. Testosterone levels were, in general, higher than corresponding values in Caucasian or Asian women, but were of the same order of magnitude as previously reported in Zambian African women."

This corresponds with the findings that testosterone is higher in black men, medium in Asian men, and lowest in white men. See Table II, page 888 in Lancet 1992; 339: 887-889. In a group of college men in the U.S., black men produce significantly more testosterone than white men (Journal of the National Cancer Institute 1986; 76: 45).
================

So there you go. Science PROVES that blacks have more testosterone and less cranial capacity/cortical neurons than other races.

High testosterone levels have the well known proven effect of increasing aggressiveness, "macho" behavior, and also causes poor impulse control.

Smaller skulls and less cortical neurons means, unfortunately, less intelligence.

These factors easily explain black criminal behavior. Unfortunately it is almost completely taboo to state scientific facts and put 2 and 2 together.

JULY 3, 2009 9:11 AM
 Anonymous said...
News of the "warrior gene" surfaced recently... funny how they completely left out the racial distribution of this "warrior gene", other than mentioning Maoris. Which race do you think has the most "warrior genes"? I think I can take a pretty informed guess.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090605/sc_livescience/boyswithwarriorgenemorelikelytojoingangs

Boys with 'Warrior Gene' More Likely to Join Gangs

Boys who have a so-called "warrior gene" are more likely to join gangs and also more likely to be among the most violent members and to use weapons, a new study finds.

"While gangs typically have been regarded as a sociological phenomenon, our investigation shows that variants of a specific MAOA gene, known as a 'low-activity 3-repeat allele,' play a significant role," said biosocial criminologist Kevin M. Beaver of Florida State University.

In 2006, the controversial warrior gene was implicated in the violence of the indigenous Maori people in New Zealand, a claim that Maori leaders dismissed.

But it's no surprise that genes would be involved in aggression. Aggression is a primal emotion like many others, experts say, and like cooperation, it is part of human nature, something that's passed down genetically. And almost all mammals are aggressive in some way or another, said Craig Kennedy, professor of special education and pediatrics at Vanderbilt University in Tennessee, whose research last year suggested that humans crave violence just like they do sex, food or drugs.

"Previous research has linked low-activity MAOA variants to a wide range of antisocial, even violent, behavior, but our study confirms that these variants can predict gang membership," says Beaver, the Florida State researcher. "Moreover, we found that variants of this gene could distinguish gang members who were markedly more likely to behave violently and use weapons from members who were less likely to do either."

The MAOA gene affects levels of neurotransmitters such as dopamine and serotonin that are related to mood and behavior, and those variants that are related to violence are hereditary, according to a statement from the university.

The new study examined DNA data and lifestyle information drawn from more than 2,500 respondents to the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health. Beaver and colleagues from Florida State, Iowa State and Saint Louis universities will detail their findings in a forthcoming issue of the journal Comprehensive Psychiatry.

A separate study at Brown University from earlier this year found that individuals with the warrior gene display higher levels of aggression in response to provocation.

Over networked computers, 78 test subjects were asked to cause physical pain to an opponent they believed had taken money from them by administering varying amounts of hot sauce. While the results were not dramatic, low-activity MAOA subjects displayed slightly higher levels of aggression overall, the researchers said.

The Brown University results, published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, support previous research suggesting that MAOA influences aggressive behavior, the scientists said.

JULY 3, 2009 9:12 AM
 Michael said...
"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3455741

"Serum testosterone levels in healthy young black and white men.
Ross R, Bernstein L, Judd H, Hanisch R, Pike M, Henderson B.
....
These factors easily explain black criminal behavior. Unfortunately it is almost completely taboo to state scientific facts and put 2 and 2 together."

(look above for full comment, deleted middle to save length)


The reason two and two were not put together were because there is no reason for them to be. For example, testosterone is known to cause aggression in many species, but the fact that the testosterone is present is what causes the aggression. The is no study backing that and increased testosterone level causes and increased level of aggression.
Increased testosterone levels causes a reducing of a chance of heart attacks and high blood pressure but those effects are negated when the individual is ore likely to drink, smoke, or do something stupid to harm themselves.

Also, I looked at more then one study on the average brain size across races, and none of them correlate with each other. This is because there hasn't been a way to actually measure the size of a brain, or the volume of skull, with out actually cutting someone open and measuring. But going on to explain what I saw, some studies found white males with a bigger brain size, one found white females, several found that black females have a bigger brain size, and some found that black males have a bigger brain size. The fact that these results can not come together, I see that as not being 'scientific proof'

JULY 3, 2009 10:41 AM
 Anonymous said...
"I see that as not being 'scientific proof'"

Perhaps not.

However, in my opinion, when considering all the evidence in those posts, I think the common-sense conclusion is pretty obvious.

I can no longer deny the evidence of my senses and my experiences, or those of people I know, and the conclusions that the science hints at are simply overwhelming.

"All men are created equal" is a political fantasy written down by politicians over 200 years ago in a far less scientific age.

It is easy to see that reality/nature itself is racist and hierarchical.

JULY 3, 2009 11:28 AM
 Gareth said...
I know it's been a few weeks, but I just stumbled upon this essay and thought I had some interesting thoughts to contribute. I recently returned from a month-long trip through South Africa and Namibia, a place in which Mandela's reconciliation has given their race relations a different tone. Our guide, a well-educated colored (in South Africa there are three racial categories, White, Colored, and Black, where one is only considered "black" if they have no mixed heritage whatsoever) told us a story about a group of Black Activists from the United States. He said the activists came and immediately requested a different guide, because he wasn't "African" enough. When he would describe stories of reconciliation (the result of political violence, but the black organizations agreed to let bygones be bygones and ignore the past as they ascended to power) the American blacks were upset that the Africans hadn't sought more "justice". They eventually requested he be taken off their tour, because he wasn't as angry towards the whites on behalf of mother Africa as they thought Africans should be. That, and the fact that no one in the group was considered "black" in South Africa was something they couldn't wrap their minds around. The point is that there is a debased hatred for white culture that has nothing to do with anything; a false separation that comes from fabricated sources like entertainment and inflammatory rhetoric. I'm writing you because a woman I who accompanied me on that trip is leaving to teach at an inner-city West Philadelphia high school this year, and I immediately forwarded this to her. I'm writing you because this sort of essay, how things really are, needs to be heard in order for anything to be done about it. We cannot leave these parts of the country to rot, something must be done to motivate these extreme corners of what has unfortunately become a rapidly growing culture of American anti-intellectualism and laziness. Thanks for your courage in posting this under your name, the only way to combat racism and fear is to confront it head on, not to brush content under the table and pretend it doesn't exist, because people not knowing is what lets these situations flourish.

JULY 3, 2009 11:36 AM
 M Yusuf said...
To be honest, teaching should be about the children only. it is only when teachers fail that they begin to blame parents, culture etc.

How would schools know whether such kids are abused at home or not if they are frightened of the children that much?

I thought people in pedagogy already knew this, but don't you have measures to deal with testosterone fuelled kids?

My local school runs sports sessions early in the mornings to physically prepare the students and they all succumb to the physical pressure proven by their good conduct in classes. It is just a matter of diverting their energy, rather than showering obscenities upon kids and teachers

JULY 3, 2009 11:44 AM
 Anonymous said...
Blacks are indeed less intelligent. Exceptions are acknowledged. But if I were black I'd be doing the same thing by citing examples of my own achievement or that of others. It must suck to be black and smart. You'll always have to prove yourself. You can't blame people for assuming. You can only do your best to distance yourself from those cultural indicators that mark you as an idiot.

JULY 3, 2009 12:15 PM
 Anonymous said...
I could have told you all this and I was just a student in NYC public schools. . . why the attitude that you should be sorry to say these things so bluntly? These are facts that are unpleasant to the blacks who know that they act like animals, and to the apologist whites who desperately cling to the idea that there are no differences between the races. Have no fear of the truth, Mr. Jackson.

JULY 3, 2009 12:59 PM
 marabou said...
Wow, I'm amazed that this teacher dares stand up to black culture. He's risking being labeled as a racist, shunned by both his own and the blak students he abhors. I think what's really shocking, is that this teacher is using his judgment, something we have been effectively trained not to do. All are equal, no one's any different, yada yada. Good on him. It takes courage to say unpopular things. I respect him for going about it in such a reasoned, informed, passionless manner. He's probably right on in his assessment of the problem.

JULY 3, 2009 2:48 PM
 meign said...
Mr Marty, if you're taking the "essay" seriously, you are being fooled by a racist teacher.

I can't believe how racist Americans are from this one post.

JULY 3, 2009 3:08 PM
 maur33n said...
Jackson's article is full of stereotypes and reeks of his own fear and racism.

I went to a mixed race public school. I recall an honors biology class, probably around 7th grade. We were about 30-40% black in a middle-class to well-to-do suburb of Chicago.

We had a stern task master that we all respected. You could sense her genuine caring and what seemed like love for us all.
She became ill for a length of time, and so we had a series of substitute teachers.

Those poor substitute teachers were made mince-meat by the unruliness of the students, similar to the scene Jackson describes. For weeks, until the return of our regular teacher, we went through substitute after substitute.

A similar phenomena happened for one of our male math teachers who had no idea how to gain respect or control the classroom.

I think the common thread is the kids can sense respect and caring. If it isn't there, they don't return it.

I think Jackson is a failure as a teacher. He failed himself and the students. They sensed his failing and weakness and went for the jugular.

He may have eventually reached a truce, but he already gave up that he disdained them.

You failed, Jackson. Your lengthy diatribe about how you did so is evidence. You were frightened, didn't care, and your guilt was thinly veiled with disdain and hatred before you set foot in the classroom. The students pegged you for what you are, and became what you already assumed they were.

JULY 3, 2009 3:20 PM
 Anonymous said...
"I don't dislike blacks. I don't dislike anyone for the color of their skin. But I will say that a sensible approach is CAUTION, and do everything possible to avoid contact. Give them a wide berth."

Funny, because that's exactly what blacks say about your kind. All of you are snakes in a pit.

JULY 3, 2009 4:14 PM
 Anonymous said...
"I tried to explain
there were no blacks in eighteenth century
Britain." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_British#17th-18th_centuries

Read something once in a while.

JULY 3, 2009 4:30 PM
 Anonymous said...
Straight on! I had the mis-fortune of having to go to a predominantly Black school. It was a nightmare that lasted for several years. When I attended high school sadly the whole Rodney King beatings took place and I suffered for it because of the color of my skin.

I'll never send my child to a school that is predominantly black. I would never try to destroy their future like that.

I know how to solve the issue though. I think a change needs to be implemented in the Constitution. If you do not graduate from High school and receive your diploma you are not an American citizen, thus you are not able to become a welfare queen and not be a leech on society.

JULY 3, 2009 4:36 PM
 Anonymous said...
I read this post and brought back some really bad memories of high school. It actually kind of infuriated me looking back on it on all the things I missed just because of the School District I lived in and realizing for the first time that all those opportunities were lost because of the same reasons that the author had given.

I went to a predominantly black high school near Philadelphia, PA and literally was in fear of my life every day. I hated that school so much and tried desperately to skip school as much as possible due to the drug use and knowing those who carried knives and guns. There were no metal detectors at the doors although there should have been.

Reading I couldn't stop but remember all the beatings I had to endure. I really really hated being called "White Boy" even by those people whom I had known since Kindergarten.

I am so happy now that that horrible time is over now and I would never subject my children to that kind of filth.

From someone who has been there this post is absolutely not made up and is a testament to the author. This is exactly what it is like.

I've read over the other posts and you can call me racist all you want. I wasn't that way until high school. I was taught it by the faculty and students there by their own words and actions.

JULY 3, 2009 5:03 PM
 Anonymous said...
anonymous wrote


R.D. Robinson: I agree with you. If I were a conspiracy theorist (which I'm not), I would say this horrible situation could hardly have occurred without being engineered on purpose. But then the question would become "why?" and I don't think even the most wacko leftist would have wanted the massive, dangerous underclass we have now


desegregation/racial integration is NOT leftist, but rightwing. Whenever you mix in different races and cultures into one community, one nation, etc., you get more factions.

The more factions there are, the less unity there is.

The rightwing represents the rich and powerful, the minority of the opulent, as james madison, the father of the constitution said.. That is the true nature of rightism.

The leftwing represents the working class, the majority.


If an idea or policy serves the minority of the opulent, it is a rightwing idea.


If an idea or policy serves the majority, it is a Leftwing idea.

Racial integration serves the rich and powerful by fracturing the unity of the electorate, by decreasing the social capital of a community, by lowering community spirit and trust. When the majority looks around them and see people of another race and culture, where these people were not there years ago, they become mistrustful.
That is a natural human reaction.

James Madison was a rightwing aristocrat who wrote our constitution. He said (in the federalist papers and the constitututional convention notes) that the way to control the masses was to divide and rule them by increasing the number of factions in the voting districts. he did that by increasing the size of the political districts. That was why the federal govt was created by the founding fathers--to disempower the majority by making it hard for them to "unite and discover their common interest" (quote by madison).

The minority of the opulent has found another was to decrease unity--multiculturalism, racial integration, and mass immigration.

The comment above mentioned a conspiracy. It is indeed deliberate, an open conspiracy. Why you ignore it, I cannot say.

Divide et impera, that is what has brought us the conditions depicted in the essay above.


Nemko wrote:


Today, the opposite seems true--conservative ideas have a hard time finding a major public voice. Sure there's Fox News and much talk radio but the media outlets with the largest mindshare, especially among the intellengsia (e.g NPR, NY Times, etc) publish little conservative thought except as a whipping boy or straw man


Your statment is both true and untrue.

There is a difference between rightwing social and rightwing economic.

What you call 'rightwing' includes the idea that affirmative action and multiculturalism is bad. I would call it leftwing instead, for the reasons I give in my post above.

However, let us accept your definition.

Yes, using your definition, rightwing ideas about SOCIAL issues are not given much credence by the establishment.

However, rightwing ECONOMIC ideas rule the roost.

Where is progressive taxation, single payer, european style workers benefits, etc? These ideas are rarely mentioned by the so called liberal establishment, and given token mention.

Of course, as I have already pointed out, the social aspect of american leftism is actually rightwing in its effect in that it makes it hard for the voters to unite, to form any solidarity.

Madison wrote in a letter to jefferson that the way to run america was to use the 'divide et impera' tactic.


The upper class just keeps on dividing and ruling. But now they use multiculturalism, racial integration, etc.

As evidence of my "far out,' waky theories, please consider the small nations of western europe. Unless very recently, they were almost entirely white. And they have been the MOST leftist of any nations on earth--ever! Soviet Russia and China were never leftist. Just because there is not private property does not they were run for the benefit of the masses.


-cryofan

JULY 3, 2009 5:06 PM
 Anonymous said...
Pretty surprised by these responses. The author is clearly both racist and incapable of contextualizing what he saw.

JULY 3, 2009 5:29 PM
 Anonymous said...
As a teacher what I SEE is a teacher who lacked classroom management. Kids speaking loudly and out of turn, getting up and dancing, are all the symptoms and signs of a teacher who is not adequately controlling his or her classroom. Yes, the kids were acting out but YOU (the teacher) didn't stop it. When students understand that there are acceptable and unacceptable behaviors THEY WILL conform and respond. Because this teacher was afraid or reluctant too be the authority in the classroom he felt he could do nothing about it and just marked it up to cultural differences that fit his preconceived notions. Since this was ”just the way they are” he thought it couldn’t be changed. The mistake this teacher made was forgetting his title “TEACHER” which means you “teach” the students not only the subject, but also unfortunately, how the should act. STOP BEING AFRAID AND TEACH! I am glad you have left the school you were doing more harm than good.

JULY 3, 2009 5:47 PM
 Anonymous said...
I have NO LOVE whatsoever for former President Bush but he did get one thing right “the soft bigotry of low expectations” are very true. And especially true for this teacher. He didn’t expect much and therefore did not get much in return.

JULY 3, 2009 5:56 PM
 Anonymous said...
Here is a link to the college version of this story, with a Black teacher
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/20/Opinion/A_dream_lay_dying.shtml

JULY 3, 2009 6:31 PM
 Anonymous said...
Graduating in 2004 in the richest county in the entire United States (outside of Washington DC), I can confirm that the original post accurately describes a significant portion, but not all of the black students in my school. Keep in mind, the black students in my area were borne to rather wealthy families who lived in a prodominently white neighborhoods. While some of you think these issues are only rampant in low-class, urban schools, I can assure you that is not at all the case.

Even with financial backing, many of the black students resorted to this type of behavior and to personify themselves as "gangstas out fo the green." I'm not sure why this is the case. These students had a great opportunity to rise above the inhibiting culture that is a crutch for so many of today's black youth. This is often shown to be the mentality of numerous black athletes and stars, who clearly have the financial backing, but can not resist the urge to mimic the actions of many disadvantaged blacks in urban conditions. It's baffling.

The black community was divided in my school which can best be put into three catagories. You had the blacks who greatly excelled and did not subscribe to the culture, you had the blacks who moderately excelled but also felt to embrace the culture in a limited way, and then you had the blacks who wholly embraced the culture and did not excel. This group was equally very boisterous, very disrespectful of any kind-of authority, often poised to engage in violence, etc. They fit many of the stereotypes that seem to plague the black community. This group was also largely involved in the drug trade and the criminal acts that occurred at the school. I can also confirm that blacks in my high school who chose to embrace the culture had serious discontent for the Hispanic community. I am fairly sure that the equal discontent felt by Hispanics is provoked by the black's racism.

It is a very sad situation that nobody seems to have the stomach to even discuss. It would appear the black community in large, as stated before, is simply still enslaved. I believe the United States as a whole has a very serious ethical, moral, and cultural problem that needs to be addressed immediately.

JULY 3, 2009 7:24 PM
 Doug said...
Disclosure: I am a mostly Caucasian mongrel that until recently lived on the part of the blue marble that nationalists would choose to call South Africa.

I believe that the answer lies hidden in the middle of this sad but socially necessary diatribe.

Humans would benefit from individuality training. Non-conformity is a powerful force driving, or at least attending, the greatest leaders, artists and inventors through the ages. Conformity is no less powerful, leading inexorably to the behaviour of the lowest common denominator. Teach people to think for themselves and they may learn to think.

Educators, please, break away from the 'group work' hobbles. In a culture of individuality the leaders emerge and motivate while the bad apples are allowed to fall, unremarked. As far as differences between groups go, it's cultural. Community solidarity, like religion, has two sides.

JULY 3, 2009 7:46 PM
 Anonymous said...
I read all the way to the bottom of the comments, because I really wanted to read some commentary that wasn't racist. I didn't find as much as I thought I would, so I'm posting.

I thought it was pretty obvious that the essayist was being racist. I sympathize with him, sure, he's had a bad time of it. But that doesn't make the content of the essay any less racist.

Like everyone, I've had lots of experiences that corroborate my prejudices. Maybe that's why it's so hard to let go of them. But it doesn't make them less harmful because I feel justified by them. I've lived long enough to know that the racist crap in my head diminishes the quality of my life. It encourages me to be angry and afraid, and makes it harder to focus on the things that make life good.

For what it's worth, there's lots of racism where I live (Vancouver, BC), and it can get pretty ugly. So it's not like I live in a bubble.

Race is an easy scapegoat. Nice to read comments from Beth and the others who've pointed out that there's other things at work here than race.

JULY 3, 2009 8:27 PM
 Dave said...
I am currently a teacher in a Low Performing New York City High School in the Bronx. Our black student population is the majoriy, followed by hispanics, So I work closely with these students every day. In addition, many of them come into the school working at level 1 or 2 in math and english, and we have barely any 4's to speak of.

The conditions in my school are depressing, to say the least, and the cognition and ability of the students I teach are pretty much deplorable- however, I am absolutely appalled and disgusted by the pure blindness, over arching stereotyping, and blatantly racist undertone of the writer of this essay. I have a hard time believeing that ther person who wrote this is even a teacher, and if they are their ignorance and lack of abilty to get results from his students speaks very poorly of his own ability.

I do not argue that the students we get in my school ARE for the most part ignorant of history, math and whatever else the author feels they should know- but thats the whole point! WE ARE TEACHERS, OUR JOB IS TO TEACH. If the students were already experts in american history, and government and math- they would not need us. We do not get to choose the abilities of the students who get sent to us in public schools- but what we do get to do is direct them and change their lives.

The author of this essay is obviously writing with a very myopic view. The fact that he is shocked that these students have a different culture and upbringing from his has never struck his mind. This artical positively REEKS of "making fun of the others".

His constant use of the definative: they never, they always, they don't is a means of grouping them all into an unintelligable mass, so we cannot feel sympathy for the INDIVIDUALS that they all are. The first rule of teaching is to treat each student as a PERSON, one who can succeede, in spite of all of the horrific odds that are stacked against them. Rather than the "woe is me" lamentation that the author is expressing here, he should be looking to himself for solutions as to how he is going to address these issues and help fix the problem. If he is not, then this article is pure sensationalism, promoting racist ideals, and muddying up the discourse. He should step out of the way and let the REAL teachers do their jobs.

JULY 3, 2009 8:50 PM
 Lucien said...
I'm white and I grew up in Atlanta going to majority black schools all my life. I have certainly experienced situations like the ones described in the article. With that out of the way, I have to say anyone that thinks white people are superior to blacks is an idiot. Guess what? It is quite likely that the human race began in africa. As we spread across the globe we splintered into different "races" due to our local environments. Check out "Guns, Germs and Steel" and you might learn something.

On a different note, many people don't seem to understand that colonial europeans travelled to africa, enslaved the locals, brought them to america, and systematically tortured them physically and mentally for HUNDREDS OF YEARS. Do you want to know why the black family unit is so fucked up? Because the slave owners broke families apart and RAPED the women! How about the way slave owners would kill the smartest slaves who attempted to educate themselves? Or how slave owners created the best workers by breeding the most physically fit slaves? The colonial americans and europeans destroyed their african identity. Not to mention the past 60 years where both republicans and democrats have treated them like ass. (On a side note all of you claiming to be conservatives or liberals can suck it. What difference there once was had eroded over time.)

This is getting a little too long but I would like to end it by saying this: Fuck all you racists out there who feel the need to pick on black KIDS (some who were born with no one in this world to tell them that they are worth a shit and to shelter them from the death and destruction surrounding them everyday of their lives) to make yourselves feel better. I really do hope that most of you lost money in the stock market or some other "legal" swindle by (mainly) white people. Those people stole more of "your" taxpayer money than any of these kids have. Have a nice day

JULY 3, 2009 8:53 PM
 Hush said...
This article is racist stereotypical bullshit. I hope people are smart enough to see that not all black people or schools are like this. The comments were far more interesting then the actual article, and I thank the people who contributed respectful opinions for opening my eyes to different viewpoints.

JULY 3, 2009 8:58 PM
 Anonymous said...
Very interesting article.

Ethnically, I'm Hispanic; racially, Amerindian. I went to public schools where the majority of the students and teachers were white. About 10% of those in my high school classes were Hispanic, and about other 10% were Black.

I went on to "greater and better" things in my life. So my experience dates from the late 80s and early 90s. I completed a graduated degree, and work as a researcher now. Practically all the people I have around are either white or Asian. I'm, more often than not, the one dark face in the pictures of the research group.

All my life I've been aware of my difference with respect to others around me. Everybody, in one level or another, is racist. People do prefer the company of those who are more like them. And it's not just a matter of sharing values, but of sharing appearance. The only way, it seems, people break the barrier are when they get sexually involved.

When I was a young, probably fairly bright student, I could never attain any sort of intimacy neither with the several white teachers nor with the two black teachers. It was impossible: try as I may, there was an invisible wall between them and me. It was evident that my presence, my trying to talk to them, made them uncomfortable.

I stopped trying.

And, frankly, along the years I've learned that we all tend to judge others greatly based on our sympathies and antipathies --and that such as often but the product of whether we're physically attracted or repulsed by the person.

Common wisdom tells us that a person's character can be more important than their appearance. Yet, in life, one's character is often judged based on one's appearance. The same words, spoken by someone we consider attractive and/or similar to us, acquire a different meaning when spoken by someone who is homely, or someone who is very different to us.

I must admit I felt profoundly discouraged by not being able to connect with my teachers and professors along the years of my education. As an Amerindian with South Americas roots, I'm seldom (if ever) around people who are racially like me. I've proven myself in all fields I've had to, and I've been a positive asset to both societies, the USA and Canada. I've managed to achieve more than most other people with a similar background of poverty.

Yet, in all my years, I've never managed to have a true friend from a different racial background. Someone who could open up with me as if I were an equal.

I consider that my worst failure.

JULY 3, 2009 9:42 PM
 Anonymous said...
Seems to me the author of the essay summed up the problem quite nicely, maybe without even realizing it:

"...according to official
figures some 85 percent of them graduate.
It would be instructive to know how
many of those scraped by with barely a
C- record. They go from grade to grade
and they finally get their diplomas
because there is so much pressure on
teachers to push them through. It saves
money to move them along, the school
looks good, and the teachers look good."

JULY 3, 2009 11:50 PM
 Anonymous said...
As a teacher in a mostly black school, I have seen similar things as are described in the essay, but the author made me want to vomit. Children, no matter how hard their lives are, do still have an innocence about them. And they can detect insincerity amazingly. A lot of these underprivileged children need to be motivated and encouraged. They need teachers whom they know truly care about their success. The boy that claimed the author of this essay disliked blacks was not speaking falsely. He could sense it. I would have sucked my teeth, too! Personally, I was blessed to grow up in a very diverse community, but many of my friends from school are brown-skinned. And they are all quite successful. As far as my students, once they realized that I cared, once I honed my skills in classroom management, they were much better behaved than I could have imagined. Any child, black, white, or purple, would behave similarly if he were raised in a community that has been affected so negatively by the educational system with which it is provided. I am a bi-racial female, of asian, italian, and irish descent. I look like no other person in the building, but I make it a point to relate to them on a HUMAN level. What was that business of "white education?" That teacher was biased and never made an effort to actually get to know his students. How can one learn from someone who is so distant? He himself never attempted to close the social gap in which he and his students were drowning.

JULY 4, 2009 12:13 AM
 Anonymous said...
Wow. I didn't read the other posts before posting my own, but I am further appalled at the flaccid attempt of resurrecting eugenics to differentiate between "races." I don't even like THINKING about the term "race," because we should have gotten past that by now... Unfortunately, I do use it in my vocabulary, and even referred to myself as "bi-racial," but that's only because of our narrow societal scope and the need to explain things in ways that we are comfortable. I just... I can't even get over the fact that the author of the essay is so unabashed and displays his name. Can someone truly be proud of writing all of that mess?

JULY 4, 2009 12:35 AM
 Anonymous said...
In general I find public schools to cater to the lowest common denominator. My school system was almost entirely white and generally middle class. I felt that the other students did not value learning, discouraged "lame" class participation, and that the assignments were generally busywork designed to encourage good state test scores but not rigorous thought.

I think Mr. Jackson makes a lot of good points, but I'm glad the poster put up a disclaimer since he had good observations, but a somewhat biased point of view.

It got me thinking about my interactions with black people and I realized that they have been quite good. My main complaint in my personal race relations is that sometimes black people seem to be quiet and shy in predominantly white groups. This might be true in the reverse as well and certainly while I haven't felt weird being the only white person in a room, I know some white people who have. But the black people I have met, talked to, and befriended, are generally so intelligent and academically-minded, like the rest of my friends, that it is hard to equate them with the people this man mentions in his classroom.

Since the comments have gone into a lot of "black people are different from white people" speech, I just wanted to point out something which most people downplay and that is that the "broken" black communities might be still-lasting effects of slavery. That isn't to say black people are not responsible for getting themselves out of a poverty culture if they are in one, but neither is society off the hook and able to wash their hands of the situation.

People seem to think that black people should have just "gotten over" slavery by now, but it was a destructive system that lasted over 200 years, followed by another 100 with no voting rights and a culture of racism where academic achievement was not rewarded with economic success.

Additionally, people mentioned genetics. Though I disagree with the haphazard statements written in regards to them and race, the additionally funny thing about genetics is that they are sexually selected. Slavery, theoretically, could actually interfere with sexual selection given enough time. When people are bought and sold like cattle, and when the intelligent and free-thinking individuals are more likely to be killed and good physical attributes are more highly valued, that could have an overall genetic effect. I am not saying it did, but nobody ever mentions that in their talks about supposed "African American genetic inferiority". What people usually mention is that there is more variation within a race than between the races.

But societally, slavery was a breakdown of the family, a constant culture of violence, and an economic culture based on punishment and not incentives. Marriage wasn't allowed and even with a monogamous couple with children, there was no guarantee they wouldn't be separated. 200 years of such a negative societal structure (+100 years of other negative societal structures) is a long enough time to create bad cultural habits of disrespect for authority, intelligence and a stable family structure. Why would all that just go away by giving black people the same opportunities as whites? I think this is why, when comparing many African Americans to people of African descent in other cultures where slavery was of much shorter duration, there is such a great divide: they're culturally very different.

When we pass the 200 year mark of a slavery-free U.S., then perhaps we should revisit the differences between the races. But until that approximately 50 years from now (2065, I think), I don't think test scores of black students prove anything along the lines of what some posters think they do.

Finally, I don't believe that society is going downhill; I think it is only improving. Certainly violence has gone down quite significantly over the ages.

JULY 4, 2009 1:59 AM
 Anonymous said...
Lol, this sounds grossly exaggerated. Well... whether it's fact or fiction... thanks for the laughs.

JULY 4, 2009 2:09 AM
 J said...
I'm a senior premed student at a university located in the southern part of the United States. To make myself more competitive for medical school, I have spent a great deal of time volunteering at a local hospital in a big city. I know this might sound a bit crude, but black people for the most[high average] part are exactly as the author of the article describes.

I agree with previous comments that suggest that the problem is not with the 'system' but, rather, with the culture that many black people embrace.

Bill Cosby said it best in his speech[several quotes]:

"...parenting is not going on..."

"I’m talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was two? Where were you when he was twelve? Where were you when he was eighteen, and how come you don’t know he had a pistol? And where is his father, and why don’t you know where he is? And why doesn’t the father show up to talk to this boy?"

"...We cannot blame white people..."

"...50 percent drop out rate, I’m telling you, and people in jail, and women having children by five, six different men."

"...[Black]People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake! Then we all run out and are outraged, “The cops shouldn’t have shot him” What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand? I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said if get caught with it you’re going to embarrass your mother..."

"...We are not parenting. Ladies and gentlemen, listen to these people, they are showing you what’s wrong. People putting their clothes on backwards. –isn’t that a sign of something going on wrong?"

"It can’t speak English. It doesn’t want to speak English. I can’t even talk the way these people talk. 'Why you ain’t where you is go, ra,'...And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. Then I heard the father talk. This is all in the house...Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads."

"Where did these people get the idea that they’re moving ahead on this? Well, they know they’re not, they’re just hanging out in the same place, five or six generations sitting in the projects when you’re just supposed to stay there long enough to get a job and move out."

"What the hell good is Brown V. Board of Education if nobody wants it?"

"I know that you all know it. I just want to get you as angry that you ought to be. When you walk around the neighborhood and you see this stuff, that stuff’s not funny."

JULY 4, 2009 3:12 AM
 Anonymous said...
Mr. Jackson sounds pretty racist towards blacks. This reads like the typical stuff you'd find on Stromfront.org.
The students he described weren't much different from the non-black and mostly white students in many of the high schools I've been to.

JULY 4, 2009 4:09 AM
 Munin said...
Thank you, Marty Nemko, for posting this essay.

You wrote: "it's one thing to describe your experiences and then suggest ways the situation might be ameliorated. But it's another to, after describing experiences, to claim it's hopeless--that it's a waste of time and money trying to improve the situation. That's what, for me, crosses the line, into hate speech."

The idea that will and desire ultimately can be sovereign in human affairs and that things therefore - if we try hard enough - eventually will pan out the way we want them to is a deeply flawed legacy of the Enlightenment.

Why do you regard questioning this legacy as "hate speech"??

The author finishes his essay by saying: "I have been in parent-teacher conferences that broke my heart: the child pleading with his parents to take him out of school; the parents convinced their child’s fears are groundless."

Several commentators have contributed their own experiences e.g: "I’ll never forget the misery she underwent merely because she was white", "I seen a lot of kids that were terrified", "I went to a predominantly black high school near Philadelphia, PA and literally was in fear of my life every day", "she and her white girl friends had to go to the restroom in groups to deter attacks by black girls".

You write, however: "negative experiences should never be used as an excuse for advocating such approaches as deliberately segregated schools, a practice I find anathema".

Please explain to me, how you morally justify subjecting children to s.c. "negative experiences" = misery, fear, assaults and a (partially or wholly) ruined education.

Why is that not anathema to you?

From Confucius to Kant moral philosophers have stated cleary, thar a human being must not be treated merely as a means to an end.

It would seem that you disagree...

Why - and how do you justify that?

JULY 4, 2009 4:27 AM
 Anonymous said...
Black white equality? Marty Lemko 3Jul09

To all these leftist pro-multi-culti responders on this blog, consider the following:

In the "New democratic" South Africa where all are now equal by law and in practice, chaos reigns!

The 80% black population is now running the show. Infra structure and services are collapsing. Crime and corruption are the norm!

There are many black only schools with zero pass rates.

Only the few remaining only white schools still have 90% to 100% pass rates.

As schools get more race mixed, they become more dangerous to pupils and to teachers and the pass rate drop and the criminality rises, in correlation with the percentage change to black.

But once again you liberals will ignore the truth and "develop" and popularize amazingly infantile excuses, reasons and theories, of why blacks with total equality and equal opportunities, are failing dismally and rather choose to make everything ungovernable and chaotic.

You liberals refuse to accept that there are definite and real differences between the races' average IQ, abilities and aptitudes. Likewise you refuse to accept the fact that whites and blacks have totally colliding cultures and that segregation would be the most peaceful and progress attaining solution.

However by doing so, you are the racists! Because your whole approach is built on the premises that blacks cannot achieve and prosper by themselves. They need to hitch a parasitic ride with whites to stand a chance! And when the majority of black parasites still fail, you blame the white hosts!

What are wrong with you liberal whites?
Why are you so hell bent on handicapping your own white youth and to destroy your own kind and their future?

What happened to the logic of: put together that which naturally fits together?

Why is it acceptable with regard to whites and totally unacceptable and "racist" with regard to blacks that every individual should only have what he/she can honestly earn?
Follow the correct path and the blacks that deserve it will excel.
Those blacks and whites that don't deserve it will sink to and operate at the level of their own abilities. And that is called the natural order!

Wake up! You are destroying the natural habitat and eco-system of man, called earth!

Freedomfighter

JULY 4, 2009 4:46 AM
 Dr. F said...
HERE IT IS!!

I found the 'racist test' that Harvard University created.

It's a real eye opener.

The results for 98% of the population are not surprising, to say the least.

Take it!!!!!

>>> Click 'I wish to proceed', then click the 'Race IAT'

***

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/takeatest.html

***

JULY 4, 2009 5:19 AM
 Anonymous said...
"On a different note, many people don't seem to understand that colonial europeans travelled to africa, enslaved the locals, brought them to america, and systematically tortured them physically and mentally for HUNDREDS OF YEARS. Do you want to know why the black family unit is so fucked up? Because the slave owners broke families apart and RAPED the women! How about the way slave owners would kill the smartest slaves who attempted to educate themselves? Or how slave owners created the best workers by breeding the most physically fit slaves? The colonial americans and europeans destroyed their african identity. Not to mention the past 60 years where both republicans and democrats have treated them like ass. (On a side note all of you claiming to be conservatives or liberals can suck it. What difference there once was had eroded over time.)"

This is why Whites look down upon Blacks. Every time this kind of crap is brought up it just lowers the respect that whites can give blacks. Now the events of this are horrible I agree but this kind of crap happened over a hundred years ago. Let it GO!

I am white and my ancestors NEVER OWNED SLAVES! None of them did. Hell my family didn't even come to this country until 1910. When I went to high school I was accused of being a racist and owning slaves. I corrected the "Brother" and he and I got into a fight about it. It didn't work I couldn't pummel the ignorance out of him.

It makes me laugh though about bringing up slavery. It is nothing more than an excuse to be lazy and blame white people for everything that goes wrong.

Blacks need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming white people for everything.

JULY 4, 2009 7:58 AM
 Lia said...
Wow, what this essay shows more than anything is extremely poor teaching to children who need it most. This teacher really did nothing to change these children's locus of control and its pretty clear he gave up early on with "blacks". This entire piece is racist and written out frustration, that much is obvious.

JULY 4, 2009 8:20 AM
 Anonymous said...
My personal experience with blacks in high school and the military agree with Mr. Jackson's account. In 1971 a Federal court mandated busing for my all white high school in Tampa, FL. Prior to the order, Plant High was considered the best academic environment in the city. The very first day the blacks were bussed to Plant, they attempted to burn the cafeteria down, giving us all a two week vacation. Until I graduated in 1972, the situation at Plant just got worse and worse. Classrooms were in total chaos, robberies at knife-point in the bathrooms, boys publicly masturbating etc. The Dean of Boys at Plant, a retired Marine Corps gunnery sgt, finally quit as he "was tire of going to court with the NAACP over expelling 23 year old males who only showed up to rob and pillage." In 1972 I went into the Air Force. My basic training flight at Lackland AFB was composed of 60 males - 58 blacks from East St. Louis, Illinois and two whites. At least by this time I knew what to expect and I wasn't disappointed. My most memorable occasion in basic, was the time one of the black's girlfriends mailed him a letter with 50 hits of LSD embedded in it. Just when I thought we might graduate from the training, the Security Police had to break up a drug-induced RIOT resulting in yet another 2 week set back for the "team." Like Mr. Jackson, I too have sought out "white-majority" situations.

JULY 4, 2009 8:29 AM
 Anonymous said...
I taught for a couple of years in an inner-city school system that was more than 90 percent black. There were life threatening situations almost daily. The kids called each other the "N..." word thousands of times every day, and considered it a joke that whites were not allowed to use that word.
There seemed to be a culture of entitlement without requiring any effort. We were supposed to provide them with entertainment, and if they showed up, they were supposed to get good grades. I had parents complaining that it was too much to expect their children to read "Catcher in the Rye" as highschool freshmen because it was too hard. The students would throw their trash on the floor and when I told them to pick it up, would respond that it was the janitor's job. When the situation escalated, their parents also explained that it was the janitor's job to clean up the messes their children made.
I know there are many blacks that work hard to improve themselves and their lives, but the vast majority of black students in inner city schools do not, and feel that they should not have to.

JULY 4, 2009 8:45 AM
 Anonymous said...
I was a serious problem-child in school. I often acted like the kids the author described. I know what the problem was. The author is a bad teacher. He comes with the assumption that the students should "learn" anything he teaches them. From my experience, a lot of learning means either accepting or memorizing a fact or an idea. A society that blindly follows their teachers from a young age is not what I would consider a democracy, maybe a well-oiled machine, but not a nation of citizens. Remember the word citizen used to be exclusive, but I guess the only way to control the mass was by giving this title freely. That's how America was built. America was obviously built on inequality. From the slave trade to the railways, to the inner-cities.

My big problem in school was boredom. If a teacher was boring and the subject was boring I would just start doing something else. When I got to high-school I learned more peaceful ways of dealing with this, like listening to my iPod or playing video-games. I later learned there was a huge danger to this passive ignorance. I would sometimes carry on these activities in class without even considering listening, missing a chance to get a good lesson.

I was often reprimanded for disturbing the class. I guess I just didn't get it. Even with the adults in my life, I never aspired to be like any of them. I had this vague notion that it was good to be rich. Some kids at school thought that you can be rich if you get good grades. This idea allowed me to stay on the honour roll throughout high-school. I didnt know much about the world, everything I did, if it wasn't done for instant pleasure, then it was done for some logical/idealistic reason.

I would deliberately ignore things I thought were useless. I think a teacher's job in ANY school is to SHOW interest in the subjects they are teaching. Showing interest does not mean just talking about it (as you would talk about a sequence of events in history class). Showing interest means relating it to life, to social concepts that everybody can relate to. It's difficult to gauge what your students can relate to if you don't know them, it can be difficult to know them for several reason:
-no time
-don't care
-scared
-stereotype
These are all difficult to deal with, but I don't think its impossible.

JULY 4, 2009 9:14 AM
 Anonymous said...
There are things that we have in our North American culture that transcend racial divisions and connect with people. This is evident in the entertainment industry. A nation should find ways of putting those same resources in the teaching of basic concepts to its citizens.

If its a technical thing, break it down so that students can digest. Don't worry that they may be too stupid or too slow. Once you build them up to understand a complex concept, they will be able to understand more. This is the snowball effect of math/science learning. Curricula should be better designed with this in mind. Here in Ontario, the curriculum doesn't say much. The teacher largely has to rely on privately produced textbooks and teachers manuals, which give a bunch of material the teacher will never use, so that they have options. I am all for a rich and diverse education, but the reality is most teachers can't handle this. For the sake of the kids, you have to break it down and give the teacher exactly what you want them to teach, limiting and enriching the teachers creative jurisdiction at the same time.

For the soft/social goals of education, that is going to be tough. This is where proper teacher training and positive atmospheres plays a huge role. This where teachers need a lot of flexibility to teach students THEIR PLACE in society. This wasn't done properly in school for me, and my parents did their best, but were too busy dealing with the world. Maybe its good that I get to find my own way. But it means that I'm going to make a lot of mistakes and both the world and I will have to adapt.

This is the situation with black people as well. The idea of formal education is not as much a given. There are much stronger social pulls that demand the student's attention, and any teacher who ignores this or looks down on it will be left behind. The author failed to recognize these things. He sees it as animalistic. If civility means ignoring the fact that we are also animals, then I want no part of it. It is that has lead to the medical and social mess that we're in. We are animals with rich lives.

JULY 4, 2009 9:14 AM
 Anonymous said...
I don't think of this issue in terms of race but of culture. I do believe that there are very successful African-Americans that are well educated. Having said that, I taught in a school that was 60% black, 35% Hispanic and 5% white I face many of the same issues. My issues were just on a second grade level. The Black students were LOUD, and giving them hands-on group work is like shooting yourself in the foot. There was no control in the classroom when it came to group work. They just either cannot or choose not to regulate themselves given the opportunity. I actually have had to slam books on the floor just to get their attention because they were so loud. Now, my question for anyone out there who blames the teachers for poor classroom management is this : how do you manage students who were told by their "mama" they don't have to listen to you because you're white?

I have been called a b**ch by a student in SECOND grade because I was trying to maintain control of the class.

There were two major problems I faced among a predominately black school besides the lack of authority we have as teachers. One is that there is a lack of critical thinking skills. They don’t try to think for themselves, they only think what they are told, and can’t even handle that sometimes. Problem solving questions were a nightmare, so I frequently used them to try to build on these skills.
The other major problem I faced when trying to teach these students was this learned self-helplessness, the "I can't" which really means "do it for me” because they don't want to put forth the effort. This to me is the same as “give me a welfare check.”

My husband says that if we have to take drug tests to have a job, go to work, and provide for our families, then anyone who is cut a welfare check must take supervised drug tests regularly to receive them.

I think that in order to solve the problems in schools, we need to empower the teachers to discipline. The students know that all teachers can do these days is give them a "slap on the hand” so to speak. Bring back the old-school days before everyone was afraid of what might happen if we actually discipline students.

JULY 4, 2009 9:18 AM
 SHADY MILKMAN said...
I don't have a long piece to share like some of the other comments. but i did want to share a perspective of a young black man who went through 13yrs of public school and graduated college. its not the teachers fault, its not the schools fault, its not the governments fault, its not the class size, its not the kids in the class, its the lack of discipline and direction as well as values from the homes of these students. the article drew parallels between poor country whites and blacks (side note about music, blacks have invented/pioneered every form of music since slavery, to say that we only listen to rap is fundamentally inept regarding music, and its history) well the values from their home environments may not lie with getting an education, some parents may see it as a way out for their children, but that maturity only comes from suffering. when you can be on welfare and still be "ok" or sell drugs to make money whats the incentive at home to get out and get up? its just not there. kids will be kids, and when you get a lot of kids together with an authority figure they dont respect they will run all over that figure with no remorse. teaching a 6th grader who is essentially a 1st grader pushed through, is demeaning to everyone involved, the teacher is at a loss because those before him/her havent done their job. and the kids are just getting flushed through. i personally think that if you take a militaristic approach for a short while to encourage the authority challenged through it would go a long way. sometimes fear works, if you can get unruly kids to fear you more than their parents (not your job, but if you want to complete it successfully ...) you'll win, and they'll learn.

aggression met with harsh and unparalleled punishment may yield the results that are sought.

no one has the single greatest answer, as society changes so do the needs of its citizenry.

JULY 4, 2009 10:29 AM
 Anonymous said...
This article is so very true, and almost sugarcosts how bad teh problem is.
Breeding like fruitflies with 0 parental love and guidance is a recipe for disaster

JULY 4, 2009 10:29 AM
 Anonymous said...
This essay is one of the best examples I have ever seen of an unholy lack of self-reflection and a façade of academic language masking, at best, a rudimentary grasp of both teaching and the socio-economic state of minorities in this country. To make grand, sweeping pronouncements on “black” behavior and culture based simply on time at a low-income serving high school; to discern a minority worldview by looking to admittedly academically disinterested 16 and 17 year-olds; to lament with sincerity how students who seemingly possess poor comprehension and literacy skills and little prior exposure can’t find interest or understanding in Greek poetry or contemporary philosophy; and to suggest such a state of education without illuminating any attempt at modifying instruction, collaborating with colleagues, finding unique routes to stimulate interest or protesting to higher authorities confirms this man’s fundamental failure to successfully teach and accurately assign any “cause” to its possible “effect.” It is equivalent to watching a child try and force a square peg into a round hole, then stand up and declare, “The peg thinks I’m racist so this is impossible.”

I do not have the time or the desire to correctly and thoroughly deconstruct and refute what most of this passage implies, both directly and indirectly. I am a white teacher, and I have and continue to work with low-income, minority students in the public school system in New York City. I have watched as I both myself and my colleagues have reflected on our teaching practices to better our instruction, talked to grades above and below to adequately prepare them, fought to improve practices by appealing to school officials and worked with those in the student’s home to impress upon them the importance and expectations of school. If a teacher does not at least attempt to do this and more, they do not deserve any right to stand in front of a class. The situations I see day to day can be incredibly disheartening, and I have witnessed my share of violence and the repercussions from the chronic poor choices often made by young people, however that still leads me to more a sane conclusion than Mr. Jackson. Poor vocabulary and a lack of decorum are not symptomatic of a larger culture, and I would never assume as much. Biased or unsubstantiated viewpoints are not reason enough to decree that all blacks think “everything is racist.” To label Mr. Jackson racist would be to treat him to the same inarticulate accusation and unsupported conclusions he has similarly demonstrated towards African-Americans. It is, and remains, deeper than any such characterization. Mr. Jackson needs to put more than just his physical presence to use next time he enters a classroom, as does any educator, otherwise they put themselves in danger of finding the same tenuous connections, inarticulate revelations and outright stereotypes that were illuminated in the above essay. Mr. Jackson has to do more than care, he has to show it to his students in his actions and look beyond the bright and loud problems to the more rooted and chronic issues at work in his students. Unless that happens, he can no longer fancy himself Tyrtaeus, but instead Tyrtaeus’ freshman classroom teacher, standing at the blackboard, hands on his hips, infuriated and blaming, giving Tyrtaeus all the reason in the world to grow and become his opposite and achieve the satisfaction of being a truly wonderful teacher.

JULY 4, 2009 10:31 AM
 Jessica said...
There's so much I want to say in agreement with the author of this article but I'll just say, as a former White female student of the public school system in Florida that the same things happened to me as described in the ending of the article. I was harassed, spat on, called a racist and nearly beaten because I refused to date blacks and was raised to be proud of my White heritage but not to hate people just because they were different.

I would beg, cry and even resorted to self injury to avoid going to school. No matter how much my parents tried to fight the school board and school staffs at the various schools I transferred to it was always the same, there was nothing they could do or they flat out denied there was a problem and even blamed me for being spat on.

I will absolutely under no circumstances allow my daughter to go to public school out of fear for her safety, it's too much of a hostile environment for Whites these days. I will home school or get a private tutor for her if needed.

The only solutions I can suggest that educators to consider is optional segregation, the legal allowance of private community-interest schools with special legal protection and a effort to get role models within the Black community to come together to find a way to encourage their youth to learn. Maybe even have a serious discussion with the rappers that Black children idolize and hope they can put out music that encourages respectful and responsible behaviors instead of a life of crime, casual sex and drugs.

The very liberal community needs to quit targeting White youth in these diversity campaigns to make them feel ashamed of who they are or that they need to go out of their way to make friends with non-Whites or they are some how bad. This is why you have White kids that go astray and become violent and irrationally hateful towards minorities.

JULY 4, 2009 10:42 AM
 RWFG said...
So Marty is 'racis' because he observed, over time, what society democrats have built for black people?

1. Dems keep them down, feeling worthless, useless, incapable. They remove all the necessary self-driving accomplishment values that should be instilled at an early age.
2. Dems are careful to control appearance - "white" is synonymous with "republican" - lobbying groups spent decades & millions to get black citizens thinking like that.
3. By removing the value from the family unit, these kids are basically raising themselves, with their own value system, language, and social class system.

It's a sub-culture of failure created by democrats in an atmosphere of political power grabs at any cost.

Visible now are the dangers of government indoctrination.

Blame everyone and never take any personal responsibility.

Oh, and get dee booty, yo, word son.

JULY 4, 2009 11:00 AM
 Californian said...
It's interesting that a number of critics do one of the following:

1) Resort to name calling: i.e., the author of the article is a "racist" so therefore we do not have to listen to his arguments or refute his points. They then follow up by making accusations that he is not a good teacher, even though they have not been in his classroom. Sounds like the critics are expressing ignorance and stereotyping the author. But this does not answer the argument being made here: is the racial point of view the correct one? What if the reality was that race was a determinant in learning? Would this fact be suppressed by the multicult because it was not in accordance with the prevailing ideology?

2) Ignoring the very real differences between the general populace of blacks and Whites: For example, the black illegitimacy rate, which is several times that of the White. Judging from frontline reports of grade school teachers I know, this makes a major difference in learning and classroom discipline.

Take the following comment:

"Blacks are an oral people, their histories used to be passed on orally through proverbs and stories that weren't necessarily written down."

But if "race is just a construct" as the multicult tells us, then how can be blacks be seen as a separate people with separate art forms? If race is only a matter of mere skin color then how could it possibly account for different learning patters? But if there are these inherent differences, then perhaps do the race realists have a point?

"Whatever negative experiences a person may have had with individuals of a certain background, it is ESSENTIAL that we not tar all people of that background with the same brush ..."

True, but this is precisely what many minorities and virtually all liberals do in regards to Whites: treat Whites as an "oppressing" group who must be re-educated, bused, sensitivity trained, and subjected to lawsuits and regulation in order to rid them of their "privilege" and “racism.”

...they "cross the line into hate speech."

Ah, so then the author of this statement is opposed to civil rights insofar as he or she believes in censoring comments which are not in accordance with the prevailing multiculist ideology? But wait, how does this jibe with the civil rights movement which claimed to be speaking for freedom? Are we to set up boards of censorship to conduct witch hunts against anyone who dares dissent from the prevailing multicultist orthodoxy, as they do in Europe? Perhaps the author of this comment would like to be in charge of jailing those who dare dissent?

...those who listen to Heavy Metal or adopt a Gothic lifestyle tend to be the most racially conscious among whites.

This is something I have observed, having been involved with these scenes professionally at one point. Add in punk rock to boot.

Anyway, interesting essay.

JULY 4, 2009 11:37 AM
 Alyssa's Bog said...
Dear Mr. Nemko,
I have to say immediately how completely and utterly offended I am by your posting. Secondly, I don't know whether or not to even take the time to respond to an "essay" with no references, and reckless use of such phrases as "on average," "most," and "many." I saw no statistics or any indication that these observations were grounded in anything but Mr. Jackson's inane and shortsighted opinions.

Your disclaimer in the beginning did nothing to dispel the myth that you shared the sentiments of Mr. Jackson. I am left to believe that you nodded your head through the entire racist, absolutely racist, "essay." I became increasingly enraged as I read through the essay, and then became even more so rage-filled in reading the subsequent postings. I do not know what gives you, Mr. Jackson, or your readers the right to talk about Black Americans as if they were animals in the zoo, or a species to be studied. The tone of the writing was so condescending that I could not believe that people living in 2009 could write it. Of my many, many qualms with this posting that which was particularly disturbing to me, was Mr. Jackson’s obvious lack of teaching skills. His scapegoating of his students to cover up for his own failure to complete his job does nothing to disguise his clear ineptitude.

As a teacher myself I can point to a few actions that if I had been so reckless to partake in would never have to gall to admit to.

1. His answering of his cell phone during class time, and then stepping into the hallway for 2 minutes! Who is watching the students during that time? Why would it be alright to leave any students, black or otherwise, unattended and then blame them for taking advantage of the situation? Furthermore, had his principal been aware of the situation, I hope some sort of severe reprimand would have been in order, something along the lines of a letter in his file.

2. He purposefully chose the "lightest" student in the classroom to carry out a task, and then was surprised that the students called him on it? Does he think his students aren't entirely aware of their complexions? That they don't know where exactly they fall on the color spectrum, and what that placement means in society? By having no other information by which to choose a responsible volunteer shows he invested zero time in getting to know his students, and by then choosing a process dating back to slave times (the lightest Black person being the most intelligent and capable) he shows his own inability to constructively interact with any Black population. I am sad to hear he has moved on to a majority white school, no student should be subjected to such a disgrace of a teacher.

There were many more particulars that were offensive, but to be perfectly I do not think that Mr. Jackson is worthy of any more of my thoughts or words. Mr. Nemko I hope you will be more conscientious in what you choose to post in your blog.

JULY 4, 2009 12:14 PM
 Hush said...
I really think some of the outright hate speech (claiming whites to be genetically superior, blacks are sub-species, ect) should be removed. This article does well to teach us how NOT to go about improving race relations.

Unfortunately all my personal experiences with Black people from suburbia during my time in high school have been very similar, where often times negative aspects of black culture are glamorized. I would see kids in high school whose parents were making 200K+ who were still selling cocaine, getting bad grades or getting in fights, just living the 'gangsta rap' lifestyle and I couldn't understand it.

What needs to change is not black people, but the negative aspects of black CULTURE. There is plenty of great aspects of black culture to be celebrated, and those are really what parents should be teaching their children. About strong black leaders like Malcom X and the insane struggles they overcame here in America.

Gangster Rap music I think is unfortunately a main culprit, and I'm guilty of listening to it, perpetuating negative and counterproductive values. I'm sure you can relate how an on the 'edge' lifestyle where you can make a lot of money appeals to many young rebellious people - not just blacks.

It's just going to take a major cultural change. A lot of black people can see there is major problems (Chris Rock for instance in Blacks Vs N*****s) it will just take more people accepting it. How to bring about this enormous cultural change, I have no idea, something better to replace the 'gangsta' lifestyle perhaps...

JULY 4, 2009 1:40 PM
 Manu Akula said...
I find it hilarious that people still dismiss the original post and every other post that agrees with them (even ones through personal experience) as "RACIST" by some of the comments here.

Hey players of the race card, this isn't the 80's. This is 2009 and people don't give a tiny rat's ass if you accuse them of being "racist". That card doesn't shut them up by inciting white guilt like it used to in your hay days of the 70's to the 90's. Now deal with it.

JULY 4, 2009 2:02 PM
 Anonymous said...
I'm a white teacher in South Africa. I used to teach at a public school which had a large proportion of black students. Every year the proportion of black students increased, due to demographic changes in the area and the fact that schools are forced to accept poor black students from outside the area. The school was probably half black, but there were also large numbers of Indian and "Coloured" students ("Coloured" means something very different here than in the states, coloured people are a distinct race of mixed Asian, white and black descent. Everyone in SA is classified by government as either black, white, Indian, coloured or "other". Chinese people have won the legal right to be classified as "black" for affirmative action etc, it's all quite funny I suppose.)

Anyhow, back to my point - I can really relate to a lot of what Christopher Jackson says. I found the same problems with so many black students - they just are not interested in learning at all, they are much more violent: the only students I was every afraid of were the black students. Once a black student got his phone confiscated by a female teacher for using it during class. The rules in our school stated clearly that phones that are used during class would be confiscated and returned af a later date; there was nothing unusual about the teacher
s action, he knew what to expect. He then came back to her after the lesson and wanted to beat her up to get his phone back and I and some other male staff had to stop him and escort him off the property. Even though many of the white students were extremely naughty, rude, even aggressive, I never really felt threatened by them.

I don't know how much you know about South Africa, but what is happening is that since we became a liberal democracy we have become a "rights" obsessed culture. This is understandable, because for many years black people were segregated from whites, as I'm sure you know. Unfortunately a consequence of this is that when schools want to take action against students like the one I mentioned above, they shout about their "right to an education" and the relevant government departments actually support them in this. It is nearly impossible to expel delinquents, even if they come to school drunk, phycially harm teachers or other students, steal, etc etc...Rights at all costs, even the rights of teachers and other students, it seems.

Anyway, it's just interesting to see that even in a completely different country, with a very different set of cultures, the experiences we have here are nearly exactly the same as what he says in his letter.

Black people are the ones who are ultimately being harmed by our cultures that are afraid to see things as they are because political correctness rules. Much better to allow people to experience bad consequences due to bad behavior, and encourage responsibility above demanding entitlements from the rest of society.

JULY 4, 2009 2:26 PM
 Anonymous said...
You're kidding yourself if you think that black culture contributes to any of what was mentioned in this article.

What kind of slovenly kid(black, white, whatever) hears lyrics from a rap song and thinks that's how real life works?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with black culture.

There is everything wrong with these individuals not knowing the difference between boasting fantasy and the reality of things.

The education system is fine. Open your fucking eyes.

Parents at home are the root cause of this, not instilling values or some level of decency when acting in society. Often you'll see the stereotypical 'harsh black mother' character browbeating their child after doing some sort of wrong. If this was true, would not more blacks be better behaved or would they take is passively and lash out in places like school?

Often times we see troubled demographics in our society and think about what we can do to accommodate them, without actually lending any thought to what conditions give rise to such demographics.

JULY 4, 2009 2:51 PM
 Anonymous said...
The educational gap between black in America and all other ethnic groups can be explained in one word, ACCOUNTABILITY.

As it was told to me, many blacks as late as the 1950's and 60's strived to overcome common stereotypes by working doubly hard and always remaining presentable. Then, in the decades following, black culture transformed into the rebellious, anti-establishment, "thug life" culture of today, justified by the liberal notion embracing ethnic pride amidst a vacuum of identity for the black culture in America. Programs of entitlements attempting to repair past wrongs and enhance equality merely perpetuated the vicious cycle, which cannot be broken until black families and individuals embrace accountability and education.

Excuses for the state of black culture are evident in the responses to this thread. The oral tradition of africans and the lack of capacity for the phonetics of the english language as a reason for lack of educational advancement is a fallacy! All human babies are born with the innate ability to form all the sounds (approximately 130) of every language on the planet and this hard-wiring is evidenced by the random expression of these sounds in the babbling phase that all babies go through. Also undermining this notion is the accomplishment of african born blacks, like my friend from Uganda, who have achieved a graduate degree level of mastery of english as a second language. A more apt explanation is the failure of black parents to encourage proper speech and reading by children or even worse, discouraging it, instead relying on public education as the sole source for a child's language learning, which limits even 1st grade teachers to a sort of remedial course study, impairing the learning of other students. This problem will be posed as a pretense for early childhood educational programs, which will undoubtedly become merely a tax-payer subsidized day care program. It begs the question: "should the gov't be responsible for raising our children?" What about the function of the family in our culture, to teach the basic skills of socialization?

Also, the article points out that almost every regional dialect contains some improper language, but ignorant black's embrace "ebonics" as part of their cultural identity and refuse to conform to the proper use of our national language. Again, liberal philosophy attempted to legitimize this foolish belief by incorporating courses to teach this in public schools in California in the 1990's.

I must point out the hypocrisy of black's, educated or otherwise, that present anecdotal examples of the truly rare exceptions of success stories of blacks such as Tiger Woods and Barrack Obama. Both of these men are very much mixed race. More likely than not, it was Obama's upbringing by White grandparents that pushed him to academic and success, aided by affirmative action policies that excluded equally qualified whites from his classes at Harvard Law, whereas his political rise was due to his convenient embrace of extremist positions held by the proponents of the Black Prospective. Tiger rose to the pinnacle of his sport though tireless work ethic, not by virtue of his race. Nonetheless, citing these men as black role-models belies the truth. I distinctly remember a mandatory assembly at my public High School in South Louisiana (20% black) during Black History month, where a few black students were called to the center of the court to name their role models. Instead of great man, such as Thurman Thomas, Frederick Douglas, Langston Hughes, or Jackie Robinson, whom actually impacted the perceptions and rights of black people in America, the students listed such people as "Pac"(Tupac Shakur), "Kobeeeeee" Bryant, and "Cash Money" (Rappers of Cash Money records of New Orleans: Manny Fresh, Baby, Juvenile, Lil Wayne). The reality is that the extensive efforts to inform young black people of the impact of black's throughout history, the vast majority aspire to become athletes or entertainers.

JULY 4, 2009 4:42 PM
 Anonymous said...
The frustration deemed "racism" of whites with this segment of blacks in our society is born out of a lifetime of experiences inconsistent with the virtues of equality preached by elitists. Whereas, the real racism of many blacks blaming whites for the problems of the world and the beliefs held by elitists that blacks are held in poverty by institutional racism toward blacks in the South are truly ignorant.

JULY 4, 2009 4:42 PM
 John Dias said...
I too feel that the writer was a little excessive and sweeping in his conclusions about blacks, or black culture. Nevertheless, there were sufficient details that make me believe that some of what he was witnessing was actually happening. And so if it was happening, to what do I attribute the cause?

I kept thinking that there was a lack of harmony and order in these kids' lives. It starts at home. I remember hearing a speaker talk about how women are meant to nurture their young, while men are meant to provide the stable and secure environment necessary for that nurturing to take place. When each party -- father and mother -- fulfills their natural roles (or when they adapt and establish their roles by mutual consent), there is harmony and order -- a quiet household. Mom does not have to scream and yell helplessly at the kids, because Dad is there to establish the ground rules and make it easy for Mom to do her job. How is this related to the type of kids that Mr. Jackson was lamenting in his essay? It's all about fatherhood.

Fathers and fatherhood are sorely lacking in the black community. The conventional wisdom is that the reason for this is irresponsible fathers, but I think that it’s actually more nuanced than that. Irresponsible fathers mate with irresponsible mothers, in a sexual free-for-all without boundaries. When a particular father wants to remain in his kids' lives, Mom is left with the choice of (A) being denied welfare and child support and depending on an unskilled father, versus (B) accepting welfare and child support while consigning Dad to the periphery of the children's lives. And so fatherhood dies a quiet death, over an 18 year period in the case of a particular fatherless child. The result is chaos, at home and school.

I hear Barack Obama on Father's Day, projecting the pain that he had about growing up without his father, and calling for black men to "step up" and be a man. But barely a word is spoken on ensuring that fathers who do want to "man up" be given legal guarantees to be around their kids -- and to be free from child support payments to the degree that they support their kids through their own utilization of parenting time.

People like Mr. Jackson seem to believe that the solution to this problem is to separate non-blacks from blacks. Perhaps that might be a viable solution for the non-blacks, and I don't begrudge any parent who wants to ensure that their child has an innocent, safe and productive childhood. Racial separation thus might help the non-blacks, and yet leave the blacks in the cold. Even some of Mr. Jackson's students seemed to recognize the dire consequences to blacks of racial separation:

"One day I asked the bored, black faces staring back at me. 'What would happen if all the white people in America disappeared tomorrow?'

"'We screwed,' a young, pitch-black boy screamed back. The rest of the blacks laughed."

No kidding... "We screwed" is right. Without a clear legal guarantee in family law for black fathers to remain connected to their children, there is no incentive for black fathers to even try to do so. There is no incentive for black mothers to reign in their open sexuality, which leads to child support and welfare benefits. The lack of fatherhood, and the peace and order that it bestows, results in this cultural devastation. The worst part is that it gets passed down through generations, making one race almost completely dependent on the other. All the while, white liberal Democrats (who blacks seem to admire) continue to embrace ideologically feminist policies in family law which keep dads out of their children's lives. I don't say this to shame blacks into voting for Republicans, but rather to invite members of the Democratic party to question family law policies that have such devastating ripple effects that carry from the family to the schools, and from there to the maternity wards, and from there to future generations who will merely repeat the same cycle.

JULY 4, 2009 7:04 PM
 Daniel said...
there is no easy solution to this problem that is growing exponentially in this wonderful nation of ours. lets not forget the real reason why black people's culture and demeanor is in such a way as you described it. POVERTY. most black people are in poverty and pass it on from generation to generation. im not going to get into it any deeper but what you say is true. god bless america, and lets hope we find a way to handle this horrible situation

JULY 4, 2009 7:51 PM
 Anonymous said...
chris rock tackled this in "black people"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7b2oCYgfik

JULY 4, 2009 8:48 PM
 Anonymous said...
The essay makes broad generalizations about "blacks" that many have correctly critiqued as stereotypical and generalizing. While much of what Mr. Jackson may have been true, what he fails to acknowledge is that there is a whole different world of blacks who have successfully blended and succeeded in larger society. Middle class African Americans have much more in common with middle class whites than they do with the poor underclass African Americans described in the essay. While there are more and more African Americans arising out of the poverty life, there remains a substantial entrenched underclass whose "culture of poverty" characterized by teenage parenthood and other lifestyle habits continue to produce generation after generation of dependency and failure. I don't have any magical solutions to change these patterns of behavior, but I do know that taking the conservative hands-off approach is just going to make things worse. There is a place for Head Start. There is a place for Planned Parenthood. There is a place of affirmative action. Perhaps society needs to go further and actively promote birth control and more active rewards for moving in the direction of middle class values of delayed parenthood, two parent families, and a more traditional lifestyle. Just implying that blacks are hopeless as Mr. Jackson's pretty obvious racist, conservative perspective suggests may seem enlightening to some, but to me offers no hope for a better tomorrow. Mr. Jackson's viewpoint denies the great progress that has been made. And there remains much more progress to come, but such progress cannot come from hopelessness. It can only come from a proactive effort to try to produce change and progress.

JULY 4, 2009 11:43 PM
 Anonymous said...
The irony is that the liberals who push the insanity of political correctness and race guilt know what this author has to say is all too true, but do not care. Their goal is not to educate and advance blacks, it is to keep them on the democrat party plantation and fuel the fires of resentment to create another generation of faithful democrat party voters. Even Barack Obama - the current black Messiah - won't subject his kids to the majority black public school system in Washington, DC.

JULY 5, 2009 8:17 AM
 Anonymous said...
Well, you've got guts, I'll give you that. If this ever goes national, your career is trashed.

You should take a look at KIPP. I have philosophical and practical disagreements with KIPP, but the program could credibly be called a success at teaching and socializing ghetto students.

JULY 5, 2009 8:27 AM
 Anonymous said...
When I retired from the army, I became a teacher. Being an ex-military man, it was assumed that I could handle the discipline problems in a innercity middle school. Being enthusiastic about my new job, my eyes were opened as I walked down the hallway between classes and a group of young blacks walked by me and one said, "What you lookin at MF?" Having retired as a field grade officer and being used to respect, I was floored. During the three years that I attempted to "be all I could be" as a teacher, I constantly faced depressing obsticles, ie. students that could care less about academics, parents that could care less about their kids education and getting involved in their schooling, students that had absolutely no respect for white people or authority, total disrespect and disregard for school rules.

I worked with many truly dedicated teachers. I was really depressed that I had so much to offer and I could reach so few. There were black teachers there that had adopted the attitude, "it's just a job".

The few good black students that I had were military dependents and generally shunned by their fellow classmates that weren't. These kids behaved well as they knew that I knew that a call to the commander of their military parent would cause serious problems. And, they had not been poisoned with the idea that racism is the cause for black failure as fhe former writer )commenter) R.D.Robinson contends.

I learned lots about life in black America during my three years at that school. I know that if blacks don't stop using race card to cover their ignorance and laziness, they will always be the scum of the earth. I apologize to the blacks that do not fit into this category. A double standard has been established in schools to cater to the lifestyles of black students in innercity schools. For example, a white student that ever called a black teacher a nigger would be severely punished on the unlikely event it could ever happen. On the other hand, a black student that calls a white teacher a "white MF", cracker, or other name is just given a talk by the counselor. Blacks are allowed to get by with murder so to speak. It creates a problem when whites ask why blacks get by with certain rule breaking acts and whites can't.

Until black leaders like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other glory seeking hypocrates stop encouraging racism and supporting racism, we will all suffer.

Opportunity is truly equal as a minimum. There are programs and opportunities for blacks that have never been available for my kids. If one isn't motivated enough to take advantage, it isn't white racism.

Black mothers must start getting more involved in their childrens' lives and stop the laziness. Successful blacks need to be more critical of those that are slackers.

In summary, I worked in a school that had all of the top technology, excellent teachers, and other benefits that many other schools dream of. It did nothing to motivate most students. It all depends on the community leaders and parents. The other blame is a cop out. People like the writer RD. Robinson is the black person's worse enemy. His racism is obvious.

JULY 5, 2009 8:37 AM
 Anonymous said...
I am a public high school teacher and a scientist who is aghast at many of the misconceptions that are being perpetuated in the original article and in many of the comments. I'll try to be succinct:
1) Just because some kids, some classes, or some schools are having problems does not justify stereotyping to an entire group or race of people.
2) Students that are out of control can become in control. I teach at a school with very few minority kids but find that the same kids that are in control in my classroom are out of control in other teachers' classrooms.
3) The teacher, school administration, and district are all responsible for creating safe classrooms, enforcing school policies, and teaching children how to be appropriate and successful. In addition, better parenting prepares students to understand the expectations for achieving success in school and society.
4) Yes, genetics contributes to intelligence but intelligence is not fixed but malleable. In addition, cutting edge research has shown how our environment and our behaviors can affect gene expression. ALL children can learn and can improve their intelligence.
5) The achievement gap or IQ gap has been shown to disappear in a variety of studies (I will post a comment with links in Mr. Nemko's follow-up post looking for suggestions on how to improve the situation). It is not a fixed gap.
6) Yes, bad schools and bad teachers and bad students and bad parents and bad neighborhoods and bad societies all can contribute to poor outcomes. Each of them can be modified and improved. We as individuals and we as a country must examine the research showing what works and both utilize and build upon it.
7) Blaming behavior, learned helplessness, and/or a fatalistic view of the situation will only lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy of continued problems.
8) Honest, INFORMED debate on the topic is what will lead us to success.

JULY 5, 2009 8:59 AM
 Marty Nemko said...
In reviewing the research on approaches to reducing the achievement gap, I did indeed take a look at the data on KIPP. Alas, it was disappointing:

Some observers, such as the authors of "The Charter School Dust-Up,"[4] say that KIPP's admission process self-screens for students who are both motivated and compliant, from similarly motivated and compliant -- and supportive -- families. Parents must commit to a required level of involvement, which rules out badly dysfunctional families. Reports of KIPP's discipline policy, which involves shunning the miscreant student, and other KIPP policies such as teaching students how to "walk briskly down the hall" (according to one admiring description of KIPP practices),[5][citation needed] might further tend to discourage willful, defiant or simply independent-minded students from applying.

In addition, some KIPP schools show high attrition, especially for those students entering the schools with the lowest test scores. A 2008 study by SRI International found that although KIPP fifth-grade students who enter with below-average scores significantly outperform peers in public schools by the end of year one, "... 60 percent of students who entered fifth grade at four Bay Area KIPP schools in 2003-04 left before completing eighth grade."[6] The report also discusses student mobility due to changing economic situations for student's families, but does not directly link this factor into student attrition. Six of California's nine KIPP schools, researched in 2007, showed similar attrition patterns.[citation needed] Figures for schools in other states are not always as readily available.

My best bets on how to reduce or eliminate the achievement gap are presented in the post I wrote yesterday: http://martynemko.blogspot.com/2009/07/my-plan-to-close-achievement-gap.html

JULY 5, 2009 10:05 AM
 Anonymous said...
It might be useful to look at history. Back in the days of George Washington Carver and Booker T. Washington, black children AND white children were taught by their parents to be quiet, respectful and productive / law-abiding members of society. I'm not saying ALL children. I'm saying "for the most part" and/or "compared to nowadays."

So what changed? It might be useful to think about this.

I think George Washington Carver and Booker T. Washington -- and their contemporaries of both races -- would be appalled at certain things going on in our society today.

JULY 5, 2009 10:22 AM
 bvw said...
153 comments as I post. I read the essay and the first half of posts.

I grew up in a neighborhood in transition from white to mixed. It is still mixed.

I went to a high school in central NJ that was 30% black when I went there and is just over 50% now. It is urban but not inner city. When I attended high school we had the race riots of the 1960's, the violence in those riots was significant, but it was matched by riots between schools at basketball games, and also some white-on-white fighting that occurred between the locals and the Hells Angels when they tried to move into the town. They left.

I had white friends and black friends. There was order in the classrooms, disorder, fights and riots were only as scheduled and not everywhere.

I was always a good student because that part of my life was easy. Most everything else was hard, rough and tough.

Four years ago a friend advised me to try substitute teaching. So I did. I taught at a couple of districts one year, and then returned to the district I had gone to myself the next year.

I taught at every school in that district, at every grade level, and in every subject (almost). At the high school level I can teach as an expert on just about any subject that comes up. Yet since was was able and willing to immediately step in and break up fights, the district wanted to hire me as a "hall walker". But for me subbing was a hobby, a learning experience -- I wanted to go to the ground and see what was really happening in our schools, to see what our future would be like.

And I did. The posted essay has many parallels to my experience, yet there were major faults in it, and like others I think those are faults of vision, inability to step out of what is normal human framing of social interactions -- which is based on the cultures one has grown up in, the cultures one identifies with, and the culture OTHERS want to place you in.

The most troubling is that the author did not see a number of types of blacks. Yes, American black culture in any one region is highly conformal -- it is as conformal as Philadelphia Irish Catholic culture, or American Chinese culture, or the Amish, just to name groups who are similarly intolerant of deviations from currently prevalent cultural norms.

My best black students were in one group joined by optimism about their life and their school. Some were like me --those who found refuge in education and learning, most others were members of band, orchestra or some other performing group. Another group was those who came from other countries -- a Haitian boy who came here to live with his uncle, and a few others of Caribbean and African birth.

There was a another group, of one only that I found, although I expect I would have discovered a few more. And that was of those who came back to school after being incarcerated, and never wanted to be incarcerated again.

Yet I also came to know a few hard cases who had been incarcerated yet were happy to continue to act in a way that seemed certain to guarantee they would be again, and that group included girls.

As a teacher I came not to associate problem classes with the percent of blacks, but rather the percent of kids from broken and fatherless homes. I can teach all black classrooms, but I can't teach a class were more than 50% of the kids do not have the internal self-discipline that seems only gained from homes were the father trains the child as only a responsible male can.

Some of my worst classes only had a few blacks in them, but they had what is the worst case in my experience for a male teacher -- a classroom with six or more junior high school age girls from broken homes.

JULY 5, 2009 10:31 AM
 Mack Lyons said...
"Seperate but EQUAL. Why is this concept so horrible?"

Simple. Because the EQUAL portion of this equation never existed. And when you create facilities for a group you consider inferior, why give them the same level of quality and comfort? Look at the condition of segregated facilities for blacks vis a vis whites and do the math.

JULY 5, 2009 10:52 AM
 Anonymous said...
"
This is why Whites look down upon Blacks. Every time this kind of crap is brought up it just lowers the respect that whites can give blacks. Now the events of this are horrible I agree but this kind of crap happened over a hundred years ago. Let it GO!"

And this is why most Blacks look down upon Whites. Because they appear to be an insensitive lot who would rather sweep the more sordid details of their history under the rug rather than deal with it in genuine reconciliation. There are many Whites out there who would rather the "nigger" be "put back in his place".

JULY 5, 2009 11:13 AM
 Anonymous said...
Dear Marty Nemko,
thank you for publishing this fascinating discussion and pushing the boundaries of permissible discourse on race, race relations, and race differences.

But I'm afraid that nearly everyone who was participated in this discuss has missed a fundamental point altogether:

It MAY be true, as most geneticists and psychologists in fact believe (this is well documented but not well-publicized) that there are absolutely fundamental differences in physiology, cognitive ability, sexuality, and psychology between the different human races.

OR it may be true instead that Homo sapiens are the only Earth species to be somehow mysteriously exempt from Darwin's law of selection selection, that is to say, it may be true that despite evolving separately for tens of thousands of years, despite obvious genetic differences, all of the different human races are psychologically identical (this is the position, for example, of Luigi Cavallo-Sforza, assuming he actually believes it, which I doubt)

No matter which is true, the following is still necessarily an incontrovertible the case:

While reasonable people can disagree on the above question, until the censorship is lifted, we we are NOT!!!! having a discussion about race, we are not having a discussion about anything, we are having a monologue, with the other side of the debate (i.e., the Darwinists) being silenced.

If people are burnt at the stake for saying that the earth is round, then you're not really having a discussion about geography.

Online fora like this are OK, but until someone has powerful as James Watson can speak publicly without being destroyed, the discussion hasn't yet.

The reason for the virulent censorship rigidly enforced by the anti-Darwin lobby is the fact that they have no evidence on their side, only moral admission diminishing, ideological compulsions of.

Despite the censorship, the science is so overwhelmingly on the side of Darwinism, that is to say, on the side of biological diversity, that the truth is about to come out in a big way, and very publicly.

It is PHENOMENALLY STUPID AND CRIMINALLY IRRESPONSIBLE FOR progressives to waste any more time on this ridiculous orthodoxy, which will be dead as a doornail is a couple of years – maybe sooner.

Historians will look back with amusement at the “Boasian interregnum” during which racial difference was ideologically repressed: the only such recorded period in human history.

(What happens when it is solidly established that many or most blacks carry the “warrior gene”? Most whites do not.)

Instead, progressives should be preparing a progressive discourse on racial difference that will enable us to demand social justice once the racial equality myths has been laid to rest.

I have spent my life in the equality camp, but have decided that reality is far more interesting and stimulating than the cartoonish, Leninist, ideological straitjacket I have now cast off.

The following posts contain my “Call for a Progressive Discourse on Racial Difference.”

Any suggestions on getting it published would be welcome.

Ps. I’m not a cracker living in a trailer somewhere, I'm a US-American white/half jew, from New York/Boston, a doctoral candidate in the humanities at an Ivy League university, a successful freelance translator, a social democrat, openly homosexual, and I've lived in a European capital for the past 15 years.

JULY 5, 2009 11:24 AM
 markrite said...
This was amomg the most depressing, but obviously true, pieces that I've ever read. And it makes me boiling mad. When we hear the race hustlers like Jackson and Sharpton talk about all the great "progress" made in civil rights, but there must be MORE and MORE, because there can NEVER EVER be the point of "TRUE EQUALITY" reached, then the piece under discussion becomes obviously TRUE and RELEVANT to the race-obsessed culture in which we're all immersed. For, under the rules formulated by the RACE HUSTLERS, whites will always have the "upper hand" over blacks until we have.................................what? A BLACK PRESIDENT?? Well, we've got one, so what happens now? Does the degenerate, boorish behavior by blacks in the classroom suddenly come to a screeching halt? Don't hold your friggin' breath. This is a systemic,endemic problem which is the primary OUTCOME of forty years of incessant secular liberalism WRIT LARGE in the black culture, but especially in black education. And it won't get better until the stranglehold of said secular liberalism is broken,,GOD BLESS--MARKRITE

JULY 5, 2009 11:44 AM
 Anonymous said...
Pt 2

A Call for a Progressive Discourse on Racial Difference

Ironically, this stalling tactic only ensures that when it finally does arrive in the public consciousness with full force (as inevitably, it must), the recognition of human biodiversity will represent a far more jarring and disorienting shock than is necessary.

The reasons for these denials on the part of progressives (not just in the United States, but in Europe, Latin America, and elsewhere) have little to do with science, and everything to do with politics – specifically the politics of race and of integration and assimilation, with remorse for slavery and for colonialism in Asia and Africa and elsewhere, with attempts to establish equality and equity between the various ethnicities which often share common national homes.

But well-intentioned ignorance is still ignorance, and censorship in the cause of racial harmony is still repressive and stultifying. Meanwhile, while progressives circle the wagons, denying the undeniable and maintaining a firewall between public discourse and the breakneck discoveries of the biosciences, those with a racist axe to grind (whether they refer to themselves as “racialists,” “race realists,” “white nationalists,” “separatists,” or something else) are gleefully mining this treasure trove of new knowledge and are building a new politics of race on its basis.

The perverse consequence, meanwhile, of the progressive “hear/see/speak no evil” approach is to grant the far-right a total monopoly on public interpretations of the exploding discoveries of the biosciences. And a total monopoly of characterizations of their implications for human health, human society, and human culture.

Rather than leaping into the fray and attempting to steal the thunder of far-right “race realists” by articulating a progressive discourse on biodiversity, progressives have simply maintained a stoic silence while the myth that we are all “the same under the skin” crumbles to dust around us – demolished not by the thankfully still remarkably few isolated and marginalized racist groups that continue to exist in the US, but instead by the accumulating avalanche of scientific data on human biodiversity.

Elaborate debates about the term “race,” meanwhile, are red herrings. The term is indeed ideologically fraught, and is often avoided, but euphemisms ultimately alter nothing: we are talking about clearly observable and quantifiable differences between human population groups – between individuals of African, Asian, European, etc., heritage. Sensitivity to linguistic nuance is always a virtue, but the fetish for disappearing problematic realities by banning certain words is reactionary know-nothingism.

Based on my own experiences in academicia, it is clear that beyond the political stakes involved, lingustic hairsplitting (“deconstructions of discursive structures”) is often a nervous tic of scholars in the humanities who are ill-equpped to follow contemporary scientific discourse, and who often compensate by producing opaque and scholastic mumbo jumbo designed to repel the uninitiated and to certify their superior comprehension of the political and philosophical implications of the “merely empirical” findings of those unimaginative grunts toiling away in the lab.

There is nothing esoteric, of course, about the origin of this ideological stalemate, of the inability of progressives to engage in a genine “dialogue on race.” It is simply the persistent learning and achievement gap and cognitive deficits experienced by some ethnic minorites. It is, of course, the political consequences of the possibilities that cognitive differences could be at least partly attributable to genetic and racial difference that terrifies progressives: What happens to the political project of equality once we have abandoned the a priori (for that is what it is: a mere postulate with no basis on observable reality) that all groups have identical cognitive strengths and weaknesses, identical temperaments and styles of learning?

JULY 5, 2009 12:31 PM
 Anonymous said...
Other sites have become interested in this essay by Mr. Jackson. I've seen it on political sites, white supremacist sites, and even several times on Craigslist.

The most rational and civilized discussion I've seen so far is here:

http://www.ornery.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=013303

If any readers are looking for more perspectives on this, start there.

JULY 5, 2009 1:30 PM
 Dark said...
Can't anyone debate without calling everyone "racist" anymore? It must be clear by now that buzzwords such as "ignorant" and "racist" haven't been solving any problems lately.

With these people egalitarianism has become a religion complete with the faith-based belief that all people are just blank slates. Really now, how are we going to solve these problems when we aren't allowed to examine what may be the harsh truths of nature? Will we all just go down in flames reciting our feel-good litanies?

JULY 5, 2009 3:20 PM
 Anonymous said...
I just graduated from high school with an overwhelmingly white and asian population, so take my opinion for what it is. Throughout grade school, my best friend was African American. I was put into a gifted program, and we split during middle school. Once high school came around, I met him again, and he had completely changed. In grade school, he worked hard and liked doing well in school, but he felt the need to associate with other black students in high school. I realize that it is natural to want to be with people like you, but he suddenly acted exactly the way that was described in the post. There are probably less than 50 African American students at my high school, but I do not know one who has been pulled into thinking that academic achievement is unimportant. I have discussed this with several of my classmates, and they have had the same experience with their African American friends. I refuse to believe this particular experience is due to economic reasons, as this suburb is comparatively wealthy. Something is wrong with black education, even in the wealthiest white suburbs.

JULY 5, 2009 3:56 PM
 Anonymous said...
The people that claim it's cultural - what is your excuse when you realize that this behavior is the same whether it is the U.S or the U.K where Africans from Africa are responsible for high levels of gang rape, murder, etc?

JULY 5, 2009 4:02 PM
 Marty Nemko said...
Anonymous (of July 5, 4:02 PM,) THAT is the question that has troubled me more than any other regarding the issue of closing the racial achievement gap: If the core causal factor for the achievement gap is culture, then why, among the world's 205 nations--some in which slavery occurred, others not, majority black or minority black, colonized or not, Westernized or not--is there not one nation in which blacks don't occupy the lowest socioeconomic stratum? I first heard that question raised years ago but have never heard nor can think of a helpful answer. I welcome your thoughts. A valid, ethical, constructive, helpful answer to this question may be the key to reducing the achievement gap.

JULY 5, 2009 4:56 PM
 Anonymous said...
The problem lies in the culture created by blacks themselves. A culture that teaches the young blacks that education takes a back seat to rapping skill and athleticism. Why bother studying when it is clear the money lies in entertainment and sports?

All the while, they make the rich white men that own them richer by the day. Ignorant to this modern slavery, the next generation happily falls in line and start rapping and practicing basketball instead of hitting the books because the lesser money lies ahead for the educated ones.

Finally, they cannot see whilst the cry out "O-BA-MA!" that the man is an ivy league, educated lawyer.

Of course, most also believe he is a half-breed sell out.

JULY 5, 2009 5:54 PM
 Gurfinkle said...
I have taught briefly in a southern black college on a professor exchange program, and also as at a charter high school for black students. Most of the author's statements struck me as exaggerations. I did not see black students shouting over me and each other. They observed the normal conventions of personal communication and in class communication. That said, I remember my feeling after teaching at the black college. I characterized it this way - I felt like I'd taught the same lesson every day for the entire semester. No progress was made. My experience at the charter school was worse. The classes were loud and unruly. It was the normal stuff, I suppose, but it was uncontrollable by me and I bailed out. A study hall next to my class, taught by the school dean, was non-stop pandemonium. The school was a joke. Absolutely hopeless because of the lack of discipline.

I wonder is the author a real person. Has anyone verified that he is who he says he is? This is a remarkable scandal. Wild.

JULY 5, 2009 7:22 PM
 Anonymous said...
OK, so you've all read the "angry white male" version of the story, now why don't you all read a Black college professor's version of "what's it like to...", for a different perspective and contrast of the issue.
a two part article


http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/13/Opinion/I_had_a_dream.shtml

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/20/Opinion/A_dream_lay_dying.shtml

JULY 5, 2009 7:27 PM
 Fredrich said...
We are now in a position to size up the difference between the position of those who demand “equal opportunity for all” and that of those like myself who, to be sure, would make it available to all, but to all alike on a condition—on the single condition that those who receive it shall first have proved that they have it in them to make worthy, socially valuable use of it. The first are animated by what seems to be a well-intentioned but futile sympathy for what they call the underprivileged, or else by a rebellious determination to level (and thus in its ultimate effects, to degrade) all humanity into a universal equality. But they have been led up a dead end by their quite unfounded notion that a favoring environment, to be achieved by a free squandering of opportunity, can ever make it up to a man for having been poorly born. The latter, on the contrary, realistically and frankly recognize that from heredity there is no escape, that men are born unequal, and unequal they must remain to the end of their days. And they would therefore apportion opportunity selectively and cautiously, with a view to determining who can inspire, create, and lead, and those others who, on one level or another, must follow and obey. On this latter basis, only those will be given opportunity who shall have first proved they have in them the stuff required to rework and to transform opportunity into that manifold meaning and beauty which is the ultimate flowering of human existence.


History is one long proof that “the equalitarian denial of the need of leadership” is sheer folly. Without leadership of a high order the people perish, as shall presently be witnessed in America.

No one dealing with men, or school chilfren, realistically and looking out upon them soberly would ever dream of pronouncing them equal—no teacher, no commander, no social worker, no employer. Indeed, I simply cannot make myself believe that there is any man, with eyes in his head and wit behind them, who thinks that men are equal. To my mind, anyone who would argue seriously that Shakespeare and a moron are equal, or of equal value to society, or that an idiot is of any value whatever, is either himself feeble-minded—in which case I would have to be feeble-minded, too, if I wasted time in talking with him—or he is a sentimental fool, in which case, no less, I would waste my time in taking him seriously; or else, finally, he is a subversive knave bent on bringing down all elevation among men to the mediocrity of the masses, in which case I will fight him to the death.

Merely to list the acknowledged symptoms should be enough to establish the seriousness of our condition. One thinks of the rapid and enormous increase in lawlessness and crime, particularly crimes of violence, and not only among Blacks but among Whites as well; the deterioration and near-breakdown of our entire system of education, not only in our public schools but in our colleges and universities; the increase of pornography and drug addiction; the deterioration of the family as women en masse abandon their traditional role and responsibility as mothers and home-makers and turn over what youngsters they have to be bandied about in day-nurseries, while they seek the limelight and independence of jobs and careers; the general flabbiness of wishy-washy men who, bemused by the doctrines of equality and freedom that television has drilled into their stupid heads, abdicate their authority as head of the home and settle down to letting their wives and their children do as they please, until gradually an attitude of permissiveness, toward anything and everything, has spread over the entire country. Often it seems that nowhere is there now left any iron strength that can and will draw a hard sharp line and bring the weakness, defiance, and virtual treason to a dead stop.

JULY 5, 2009 7:35 PM
 Anonymous said...
As an educator for 34 years, I found Mr. Nemko's comments to be spot on. Black students have to be "more" than everyone else--louder (especially), more flamboyant, more defiant, more full of rage, more violent at the system (white) that feeds them. A growing number of immigrant students a fast adopting this attitude. I found that the black students were the most racist and intolerant of any of the groups at my school. Anyone who says that educators like Mr. Nemko shouldn't be teaching should try and be a substitute at schools such as he described. At my high school we had more than one teacher (black, by the way), walk out of the classroom after 2 classes, get in their car and drive away never to be seen again. One teacher from Texas (my school is in Calif) sat in the lounge and cried. Never saw her again either. She left her books on the table in the lunchroom - didn't even stop to turn in her keys. All the liberals who spout how intolerent some teachers are haven't put up with abuse that some teachers endure. I have broken up fights, gotten blood over my clothing, had a knife pulled on me, had a mother kick me because I wouldn't pass her son and had a student try to rape me in my own classroom after school. Just the kind of people that all you white liberals want sitting next to your child in school I suppose. No, you'd rather send your child to private school and blame all the ills of society on the teacher. Try it some time for the lousy pay, the hours spent grading papers, the nasty parents, the foul-mouthed kids and see how you like it.

JULY 5, 2009 7:37 PM
 Anonymous said...
Dr Watson, who runs one of America's leading scientific research institutions, made the controversial remarks in an interview in The Sunday Times.

The 79-year-old geneticist said he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really.". He said he hoped that everyone was equal, but countered that "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true".

He says that you should not discriminate on the basis of colour, because "there are many people of colour who are very talented, but don't promote them when they haven't succeeded at the lower level". He writes that "there is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so".

JULY 5, 2009 7:44 PM
 Anonymous said...
"Brilliant"

"Spot On"

10/10

Sometimes....the TRUTH hurts. Great Read. Thank you for posting.

JULY 5, 2009 7:46 PM
 Anonymous said...
Mothers need endless physical, emotional, and social support in the first few years of their babies lives.

Mostly, they need the father of their babies to love them, and support and admire their hard work and efforts to feed, nurture, chase, and let these new ones explore the world.

Why have we decided to destroy the proper role of fathers in our culture?

If we keep it up, all families, whether they be black, white, yellow, or green, will be at risk of disintegration into barbarism.

Civilization is so easily destroyed, and Daniel Patrict Moynihan (democratic Senator from NY) was correct.

Please do not blame the black sub-culture for the destruction of their family structure, their communities, role models, etc. The "helping hands" have struck again.

Think about this, friends, and grieve for all the good souls that have been lost to the welfare society, and are now lost to jail, drugs, and disease.

Look at your silly selves, and point the finger of common sense at your heads, for swallowing the "touchy-feely" nonsense you see on the boob tube.

Just an old granny's opinion. And, for whatever it matters to the rest of you, the pigment of one's skin matters not a whit to God. He sees our hearts, and they have no color.

Teachers cannot be expected to overcome social chaos.

Please think about that before you condemn teachers who report the results/consequences of social programs that have destroyed any kind of social structure on children they then are expected to "socialize".

Just my opinion, but the author is right, not a racist. He is just an observer of what didn't work.

Can the rest of us just stop arguing, and realize we messed up with "welfare", etc? Anyone have some positive ideas about how to get kids in these terrible circumstances into happier and more productive lives?

First, I am guessing, we have to agree that "welfare" has failed. If we can't get beyond that argument. we are truly lost.

JULY 5, 2009 8:27 PM
 Anonymous said...
This post is extremely dissapointing and backward. Its really depressing. For me, an African person reading these posts rots me inside. When I hear such things as "segregation is the best option" I really lose all faith.
First of all, there are many perspectives I'd like to adress.
1. African people had a language and a written language before white people came. It is sad that i have to say this.
2. Africans are not savage animals- we are extremely intelligent. There are many excellent universities in the CONTINENT of africa- Ibadan and university of Lagos to name a few. The idiotic idea that African people carry the warrior gene is laughable; my culture abhors fighting. Its hard to see but the intelligence in African people fixed for socioeconmic differences is identical to whites. Furthermore, Iran has an unstable government. No one says all its because all muslims are stupid and unitelligent- correct? So why is a double standard used when there are unstable governments in African countries?
3. Obviously, this teacher would not recieve any positive responses from any black people. Usually, people can discern when someone else doesb't like them. If I felt that a teacher did not see me as a human being but one of many black people- I would act disprespectfully too. And its sad that I have to justify this but I have an IQ of 135. The teacher has already disrespected me by not acknowledging me as an individual. I might as well be chalkboard.
4. OPeople have ignored a certain poster- that I would like to call out. Stephen is a teacher in schools with predominantly African populations. He says that he sees the kids as different each separated by his/her own problems and feelings. By acknowledging their worth as a person- he has gotten results. Hats off to you- stephen.
5. This brings me to my last point. What is killing African Americans in the inner city Nemko. It is that they are being taught by teachers who don't care. I went to school in the inner city. No one cared to talk to me- or help me- teachers ignored my sorrows and passed me by. If i had stayed there, BI would never have been able to blossom. So what do we need? An army of teachers like Stephen to tackle the inner city students- that solves the problem.

JULY 5, 2009 8:49 PM
 Anonymous said...
the teacher who wrote this is a racist idiot. what he is describing is for the most part true. However, to describe black children who are a product of their environment in such a one-dimensional manner is quite simply racist. why doesn't this teacher ask himself "why?" do we have this problem, instead of portraying black children as inherently ignorant and inferior. there is a deep rooted and sophisticated sociological reason why they behave in such a manner. i don't have time to write why this article is stupid, and even more offensive than the teacher himself. wtvr, just don't adopt this teacher's racist views...

JULY 5, 2009 8:49 PM
 teacher.paris said...
Although most of my years as a public school teacher in America were spent teaching in a an elementary school for gifted children and later in one of the most respected high schools in the city (Out of 64 ), I also spent three years as a substitute teacher in mainly black schools. My experiences in those schools was like Mr. Jackson's. There were two school that were different. In both of them the principals were very visible and demanded order. One principle took over the classes during the teachers'breaks and was in every classroom for ten minutes twice a week (It was a very small school). Most principals hid in their offices.
In the large high school the students voted with their feet in the cafeteria. Black sat with Black, Latinos with Latinos, Whites with Whites. The only racially integrated tables were the ones with the homosexual and lesbian students - very much favored by the last principal I endured.
Order at the last school was good since we had three policemen assigned to the building, a uniform dress code, metal detectors and only 15% Black students.
In a normal year four students were murdered out of 1600, but not on campus.
Two Black students stood out in my last year teaching in America. Anthony came to the first day or class. The following day he was arrested for a triple homicide. Quentin dropped out early because he was 16. He was arrested that month for two armed robberies.
The Black children in the elementary school for gifted children generally entered the elite high school in the city after sixth grade. Even there, a small number of the Black children lived in the projects and were sometimes beaten up for "acting White".
I had many Polish immigrant high school students. They uniformly agreed that the schools in America were inferior to the schools in Poland. I asked them if they told their relatives how American schools compared to the schools in Poland. They said yes, but their relatives never believed them.
Colleges of Education produce edumajerks who spout edumababble.
I suggest that all colleges of education be closed and all teachers be hired on the basis of their scores on the Graduate Record Examination.

JULY 5, 2009 10:18 PM
 Anonymous said...
To answer the following question from Mr. Nemko:

"If the core causal factor for the achievement gap is culture, then why, among the world's 205 nations--some in which slavery occurred, others not, majority black or minority black, colonized or not, Westernized or not--is there not one nation in which blacks don't occupy the lowest socioeconomic stratum?"

Here's the first thing I came up with:

From Mr. Jackson's essay: "Of course, there are a few loutish whites who will never think past their next meal and a few sensitive blacks for whom anything is possible, but NO SOCIETY TAKES ON THE CHARACTERISTICS OF IT EXCEPTIONS."

Perhaps we SHOULD look at the exceptions. The answer on how to solve this may lie within the exceptions.

Blacks may overwhelmingly occupy the lowest socioeconomic level in every country where they live, but if this is true, then each country must also have exceptions, as we have in America. What do the exceptional, successful blacks do that the rest don't? And why don't or can't the rest do it?

For example, if it was proven that the exceptional have high self-esteem and the rest don't, and self-esteem was proven to be the crucial factor to a successful life, what could be done to raise the self-esteem of the others over a long-term period? I'm not saying this is the case. It's just an example.

If there is a common theme for both answers, then the answer on how to reduce the achievement gap may lie there.

Whenever self-help books are published, they try to do something like this. They usually fail. If this was the approach taken, the problem solvers would have to do more than a self-help book does in solving the problem. And patience would have to be a factor. It may take several generations for a culture to change, or even be rejected if necessary.

It's probably completely wrong, but that's the first thing I came up with. I'm sure there are experts who might have a better idea.

JULY 5, 2009 11:34 PM
 Anonymous said...
I've read a lot of the comments, and some of them are complaining about "hate speech", and some go so far as to demand censorship. I have not read any comment that I would describe as "hate speech". Someone stating that "A is less intelligent than X, or B is inferior to Y" is not hate speech, it's opinion. Describing the differences one observes between the races is not "hate speech", it is just an observation. And lastly, Racism does not equal hate. A Racist may simply be someone who doesn't pretend there are no differences between races, a Racist is cognizant of the differences between races, but does not necessarily hate anyone.

Just because someone says something that you don't agree with, or makes you feel bad doesn't automatically make it hate speech. In my opinion, you have to say something that advocates violence in order to have it classified as hate speech.

JULY 6, 2009 1:04 AM
 Anonymous said...
Something like 95% of the problems described here as well as 95% of the problems blacks experience living in America could be eliminated via one single simple act: Outlaw and ban the demoKKKrat party. The problems would evaporate within five years.

JULY 6, 2009 6:04 AM
 Anonymous said...
it would be interesting to see the performance of "blacks" in schools in other countries such as the UK...

JULY 6, 2009 7:23 AM
 David V. Cruz-Uribe, SFO said...
I find it preposterous that this racist nonsense is taken seriously. Others have spoken to the many flaws in the author's logic; I just want to speak to his final bit of advice to concerned white parents. I live in a suburb in Connecticut, and happily sent my sons to a majority-minority elementary school: it was about 80% non-white, split roughly between blacks and hispanics. We live in the poorer end of this middle-class town: most of my neighbors are either white ethnic working class who have lived there for a while, or minority families (again working class or lower middle class) who moved there because of the quality of the schools. So even though the school is predominantly brown/black, standards were high, parents were involved and discipline was firm but fair.

The difference? It's the economy stupid! Class standing---all the financial and social resources that go with being in a secure niche in the economic system---made this a successful school, whereas the nearby urban schools are a mess.

So leave behind the epiphenomena that blacks are stupid, violent, loud, etc., and stop trying to scare white parents into making the already bad problem of racial segregation even worse.

JULY 6, 2009 7:25 AM
 Anonymous said...
I always read that blacks need "higher self-esteem". I think this is the exact opposite of what they really need. Blacks need LOWER self-esteem. They already think that they are the best, coolest, sexiest, that they created civilization (what a laugh), that they will naturally be sports and rap "music" stars, and so on and so on and so on. Listen to any rap song and you will see "self-esteem" taken to the megalomaniacal extreme.

It has been proven that blacks have HIGHER self-esteem than whites.

I propose that this baseless and unrealistic sense of high self esteem is actually part of the problem with blacks.

=============

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200203/bursting-the-self-esteem-bubble

Bursting the Self-Esteem Bubble

A controversial report suggests that high self-esteem can be dangerous.

By David Dent, published on March 01, 2002 - last reviewed on August 30, 2004

People with high self-esteem may be more of a threat to society than those with a lower sense of self-worth, according to a controversial 100-page report. Nicholas Emler, Ph.D., a social psychologist at the London School of Economics, found that people with high self-esteem are more likely to be racist, violent and criminal. Low self-esteem increases the risk of eating disorders, suicide and depression, but it is not a factor in delinquency or substance abuse, according to Emler. The study was commissioned by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, the United Kingdom's largest think tank, and is distributed by York Publishing Services.

Emler reviewed seminal research on self-esteem as well as hundreds of study abstracts before concluding that genes are more important than parenting or environment and low self-esteem is not a risk factor for poor academic performance.

Black teenagers voiced higher self-esteem than whites, a difference Emler attributes in part to presentation.

"Black teens are willing to say things about themselves that others may not feel comfortable saying," maintains Emler, who also found that people with high self-esteem may have an unrealistic sense of themselves. "They expect to do well at things, discount failure and feel beyond reproach."

High self-esteem seems most dangerous when it colors racial and ethnic tolerance. "People with incredibly positive views of themselves feel anybody who differs from them is an insult," explains Emler. "They just don't like people who are different."

These pitfalls have yet to curb the booming self-help industry. More than 3,000 book titles on the Barnes & Noble Web site contain the term "self-esteem."

JULY 6, 2009 8:29 AM
 Anonymous said...
I am a "white" teacher who taught in one of the country's worst "ghettos". I have experienced the dysfunction described in this essay.

Yet I see one problem with it... the constant implication that somehow "liberals" are the problem, that all of this signals some failure of "liberalism".

I know enough about school politics to know that there are plenty of conservatives skunking the system. I also know that while blacks are overwhelmingly Democratic voters, as are Jews and certain other groups, many young black students had a better grasp of politics than what is described here.

And I do blame environmental and cultural factors. With conservatives in power, for decades now it's been impossible to implement any meaningful programs against poverty, to improve urban neighborhoods, etc. And some of the cultural factors you CAN blame on the black people themselves, as after all a person decides to gangbang or be a welfare queen or whatever, but those also are a response to poverty... a dysfunctional response to be sure...

Well, I'm a leftist Democrat but I taught my ghetto students responsibility, the importance of education, and multiculturalism in the sense that we must RESPECT each other, oh yes, even whites and Latinos...

I had some success, but of course, you have these kids for one year and then they move on... I am unfortunately certain that even some of my brighter students are now in prison... or dead.

I think black people should read this and be self-critical rather than making excuses for everything. I think whites should read it to understand some of what is going on realistically. I confess I would not allow my kid to attend a school such as that described, or the one in which I worked.

However, let's not let this information be used to reinforce existing stereotypes or to make us think it is ok simply to GIVE UP on our fellow Americans who are black.

Yeah, I piss off the liberals too... so I must be right.

JULY 6, 2009 9:42 AM
 Gene said...
Beth, yes, it's all ultimately about culture, but neither is culture entirely arbitrary. Culture is underpinned and constrained by biological realities that include the intelligence of its members (else try teaching a fish to ride a bicycle).

Now, if what the race realists say about variations in the average intelligence of major racial groupings is indeed correct, then racial categories will impact in some sense on culture.

As for Lucien, who claimed that slavery is responsible for the dysfunctionality of the black families in America, how does he/she explain that as late as 1960, over 70% of black children grew up in two-parent homes?

Race-denying iberals need to acknowledge 2 things: i)the very real possibility that the racial intelligence is both real and mainly genetic in origin; ii)that the growth of the welfare state allied to civil rights freedoms have had serious negative effects on both blacks and whites.

JULY 6, 2009 9:57 AM
 Bengt said...
it's a selfish desire in many ways as their scholastic success makes us feel good. however, when we create constructs and measures of success that are artificial to begin with, and they are not reached, time and again, and we compare this lack of achievement time and again with coworkers, we begin to feel that it's them and not us, that have caused the problem. why should these students try to reach "white" measures of success when they don't think it will do them any good as it won't matter and that there is already a path of the least resistance in the form of government hand-outs? at least they know that their efforts and hopes won't be dashed. now if you are writing about teaching "blacks" at one school, then you should know that a statistical sample of one is not very reliable in terms of quantitative analysis. and what of the black students that did succeed? were there none whatsoever? did you leave their story out of your own narrative because there really truly were no such students? or did they succeed as a result of other factors than your instruction? i have a hard time believing that such students did not exist. what have you done in terms of peer research? as you know peer to peer teaching is one of the most powerful tools out there, especially where adolescents are concerned. there may be a desire to learn, but it is quickly forgotten as exposing such desires quickly jeopardize one's position within an adolescent clique when displayed as a contrary perspective to the groups' ideals. what can be done to help those students who desire to learn and to allow them to save face in front of their peers? and what have you done in terms of examining other multicultural societies' attempts and successes with teaching minorities? america is not the end all to be all and looking beyond ourselves to find solutions is acceptable. we can learn from other cultures just as much as we demand they learn and love our own culture that we hold in such very high esteem. it's okay to do so, honest. and what of language? ebonics is ebonics. children learn to speak from their family members and peers and this learning is constantly reinforced. again this all boils down to speaking with the sociolect that they use. it may never be important to them to speak like "whitey", which is okay. i know plenty of "white" people in powerful positions who speak in terms that would not be considered "educated" but there they are. what we are doing them is essentially asking them to subscribe to learning a cultural paradigm that they may never embrace to shape their own idea of reality and existence. however, i am glad that you did write what you did. do i find your words racist? at times, yes, and at times, not at all. have i seen racism from other groups than "whites"? hell yes? i think that the civil rights movement of the 1960s, for many people, eliminated the concept of race and racism in their minds so dealing with it now, 40 years later, seems tedious and superfluous as it has all been taken care of already. we also like to think that we've come a long way and evolved, but of course, we haven't come as far as we would like to admit and we have plenty of reasons to evolve any further. solving the gap between test scores of "blacks" and "whites" can't rest only on the shoulders of education - it's a large-scale, long-range solution that will solve the problem.

JULY 6, 2009 10:42 AM
 Bengt said...
what i like most is the fact that your article provoked a visceral response within me. i taught in a "multicultural" environment for many years as an esl instructor. granted, there were fewer "black" students in my class, but the ones that i taught were all in all extremely well-behaved and polite. however, most of these "black" students came from sub-saharan africa. what i don't want anyone to walk away and think after reading your article is that being "black" means being inherently disrespectful to the "white" mainstream educational methods, as that simply is not true. i also know that whre i live, in portland, oregon, there is a thriving and successful "black" community - well-established and middle-class. i also know that there is a strong anti-intellectual bent in this nation and that it is supported and maintained by all individuals of poorer economic standings, be they white, black, first nations, etc. i also know that part of being a good teacher is helping children learn by working with what motivates them to learn, using that as a launchpad. i don't know if that is what you did or not, or if you have taken the time to work with them, and i don't want to oversimplfy the solution, but to get kids hooked into learning, especially when they are adolescents, motivation is key. i also know that there is a bigger picture going on here - many students come into the classroom with ideas already well-established since infancy and reinforced by the actions and attitudes of their peers and family members. schools will never ever be the panacea - schools have to fit into the puzzle alongside a change in mores, positive community and civic leadership, and opportunities to succeed. what also is missing is a desire to understand at their level what going to school is like - i still get a sense of "us vs. them" paradigm in your writing - very much the binary opposition that this country seems to thrive on. it's always good to draw parallels to define context more fully, but you also seem to exploit the desire to pity the poor "white" kids stuck in class with the "black" kids while failing to show the flip side of the coin - what is it like for "black" kids in a "white" majority school? is it always a bed of roses for them? perhaps yes, mayhaps not. and again, in the grand art of american binary opposition, you leave out your perception of the experiences of other visible and ethnic minorities - the "latinos", the "asians", and the "native americans" who, may or may not have been in your class. is this because these other minorities fell into order and toed the "white" party line in anticipated proper classroom behaviour as the "white" teacher so desired? what slays me is that we pride ourselves on being individuals in this country, as long as it fits the paradigm for the "white" definition of individualism, but when, en masse, a group shows a disinterest for the "white" paradigm of education and in essence, rejects it for their own group individualism, the love of the concept of individualism falls flat on its face. as a teacher, i know that all we want to do is help all students succeed and reach their maximum potential.

JULY 6, 2009 10:42 AM
 PhD Program Tips said...
I taught at a HBC. About 20% of students in my class were good students, and 80% had very little interest and/or abilities. I did have a bit more problems in terms of keeping kids quiet, but not to the extent where it becomes impossible to do my work. Overall, I didn't have any big problems while working there. But I didn't get along with the predominantly non-black administration. They drove me nuts, so I quit.

JULY 6, 2009 10:46 AM
 Snowdog99 said...
Mr. Nemko,

I appreciate your courage in posting this essay by Mr. Jackson. As an individual who has had - dare I say it - the misfortune of attending public school with many blacks growing up, I can certainly identify with the situations this teacher relates.

Indeed, the situation grew so dire in the schools I attended, we had on-going violent racial conflicts (overwhelmingly black on white) all the way down to the sixth grade. I witnessed a white vice principal beaten to within an inch of his life by a black 17 year old "eighth grader", as his throng of black girlfriends stood in a semi-circle and cheered.

My next door neighbor was rendered almost completely deaf as a result of a stab wound inflicted to his right ear while he was trying to defend a special-needs boy who was being attacked by a gang of black boys. That special-needs boy was whipped across the head with chains and suffered severe brain damage as a result. The city media did their level best to cover the whole incident up as an example of what happens when there is "name calling".

I begged my father repeatedly to move us, and finally, in the ninth grade after a particularly heinous series of attacks on whites in our school, he relented. For the next 4 years I was "treated" to the greatest educational experience of my life - an orderly and relatively peaceful environment oriented towards learning. Indeed, it was one that was predominantly white. This experience paved the way for college, two graduate degrees, and a professional career in the sciences.

That move from my old neighborhood was in 1976! One can only imagine the extent to which conditions have degraded over the last 33 years. Obviously, as Mr. Jackson suggests, the various and sundry attempts to "reform", "change", and "rehabilitate" via the expenditure of increasing sums from the public purse, have failed to yield significantly improved results.

I only hope that an honest discussion of this problem can finally lead to some sort of resolution. Staying the present course is undoubtedly, untenable.

JULY 6, 2009 11:05 AM
 Munin said...
Marty Nemko wrote: "If the core causal factor for the achievement gap is culture, then why, among the world's 205 nations--some in which slavery occurred, others not, majority black or minority black, colonized or not, Westernized or not--is there not one nation in which blacks don't occupy the lowest socioeconomic stratum? . I first heard that question raised years ago but have never heard nor can think of a helpful answer. I welcome your thoughts. A valid, ethical, constructive, helpful answer to this question may be the key to reducing the achievement gap."

Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate.

But I suppose you regard Ockham's razor as neither valid nor ethical, neither constructive nor helpful...?

JULY 6, 2009 11:33 AM
 Anonymous said...
How encouraging that most of the comments agreed with the author of the original author and that so many of the comments believed that segregation is part of the answer of how to save white children from black violence and dysfunctionalism.

People denounced the old doctrine of "separate but equal." So be it. If you gave each black student $1.25 for every $1.00 spent on a white student, whites would still outscore and outperform blacks. Give blacks more money and nothing will change.

JULY 6, 2009 12:22 PM
 R.S. Woods said...
I went to John Ehret High School on the westbank of New Orleans from 2000-2003, a public school in a predominately black area. During my four years there it was not unusual for me to be the only white kid in class. Classes generally ran around 30-40 kids and there was never more than 5 whites in a class at a time. Everything is just as the author describes, but he left out some things. Like how students call teachers racist that don't pass them, or don't let them have their way. Or how teachers curve grades just so all the blacks don't fail when they deserved to. Or how the curriculum is so dumbed down that some students are able to graduate but still can't read. Blacks are not whites, and it is unfair of us to try to make them be whites. It's unfair to them and it's unfair to our own white students and teachers.

JULY 6, 2009 12:58 PM
 Anonymous said...
I'm one of those whites who "woke up", an American Jewish woman who tried to have patience for blacks, but there is just no hope for them. None.

As a previous poster said, we Americans are lucky that most blacks here have some white DNA, because this serves to dilute their natural savagery.

Blacks in Africa are notoriously savage and superstitious, and their IQ is 85 on average.

If only Lincoln had not been assassinated, we wouldn't have this problem today. He planned to resettle them in Africa (Liberia.)

JULY 6, 2009 1:13 PM
 Anonymous said...
Reading all of these comments, it occurs to me that although we have all been brainwashed since birth to believe that blacks are always “oppressed” by whites, huge numbers of whites in the US have suffered terrible violence at the hands of blacks.

I would propose an online clearinghouse for Euro-Americans people who want to share their experiences without being vilified as “racists” or “white supremacists.”

This might go a long way toward launching the public “discussion on race” that Mr. Holder and President Obama claim they want to have, but which they shut down immediately when it begins on the grounds that “hate speech must be criminalized.”

At the same time that we have been subject to a reign of terror from coast to coast and from north to south at the hands of blacks in the formerly great cities of our nation, we have paid out billions if not trillions of dollars in various forms of assistance to the black community.

It might go a long way toward healing the rift between blacks and whites in the United States if blacks would admit that whites have meant enormous sacrifices to improve the socioeconomic status of blacks, and that our thanks so far has been a reign of terror.

It might go a long way toward healing the rift if blacks would thank us for the former, and apologize for the latter.

After all of the debates about moetary reparations and formal apologies for slavery and racial discrimination, why is it that there is no discussion about the apology that is owed white Americans for all of our sacrifices on behalf of the black community??

JULY 6, 2009 1:25 PM
 Anonymous said...
When you institute a system-such as the American welfare system- the recipients believe that they are entitled to "free" things- housing, meals, etc. As a former middle school teacher, I've experienced the result of this "entitlement" attitude. Yes, for the past several generations, this attitude has been expressed predominantly by African Americans. That too is changing- many hispanic students have now had family in the U.S. long enough to learn how "the system" works. Why learn/study/work if you can get things FREE?! This has carried over into the business world also. The solution is complex yet simple- no more welfare system or a modified welfare system that has a time limit with a work provision; completely eliminate the welfare system,etc. This isn't just an educational problem, this is a societal problem. Do we all sink into the belief that dumb/uneducated is "cool" or do we demand TRUE equality ? We've reached a point where race shouldn't be the main issue in awarding a work position or admission to college but truly based on credentials. It isn't about race, it's about -as R.D. Robinson stated- "a form of new slavery". I think this new slavery is caused by people feeling that they are entitled to "free" things versus having to work.
If students are allowed/forced/coerced to sell/use drugs; fight/disrupt;they should be placed in separate classrooms from students who are following the rules/laws. Is this reverting back to segregation? Not racially but behaviorally. Is it necessary to rebuild/allow every individual the right to an education? I think the answer is justifiably yes.

JULY 6, 2009 1:35 PM
 Nettrice said...
1) http://www.accel-team.com/pygmalion/prophecy_01.html

"The concept of the self-fulfilling prophecy can be summarized in these four key principles:

* We form certain expectations of people or events
* We communicate those expectations with various cues
* People tend to respond to these cues by adjusting their behavior to match them
* The result is that the original expectation becomes true

This creates a circle of self-fulfilling prophecies."

2) My controversial statement is that teachers like Jackson often send these cues (false expectations) to Black students based upon their own conditioning and prejudices. They are not trained how to be hypersensitive and set different conditions in classrooms where they are a majority of Black students.

For example, I co-taught a class with a team (white and black). The students were Black and Latino. It was reported that when I left the class the students immediately changed their behavior and acted up. One day I observed from a hidden location and saw it with my own eyes.

There are educational divides between white students and black students because there are institutional divides between white people and black people. This is a systemic issue that has a lot to do with ingrained racism in U.S. institutions.

JULY 6, 2009 3:12 PM
 Bengt said...
i've noticed that a lot of people have written commentaries rife with typos, punctuation errors, and grammatical mistakes. i've also been able to deduce that these same individuals are white and are proponents of the concept of eugenics. i don't know if they are in on the joke of their own irony or not, but it is very telling and damning evidence that disproves their point. or maybe their education failed them also.

JULY 6, 2009 3:20 PM
  1 – 200 of 776   Newer› Newest»
Post a Comment

Newer Post Older Post Home
Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)

POPULAR POSTS

"What it's Like to Teach Black Students?"
How I Could Live Decently on $20,000 a Year
Top 10 Ways to Gain Willpower
"A Nation of Cowards About Race?" A Full-Dimensioned Discussion of the Racial Achievement Gap
On Socialism
The Peter Pan Syndrome: Why Smart People Fail
Why Men Don't Listen to Women
LABEL CLOUD

ability grouping achievement gap affirmative action bailout bailouts big government boys boys issues career advice career change career counseling choosing a career climate change climate change skeptics college college accountability college admissions college for all college reform college report card college transparency communication communication skills creating jobs drive education education reform election reform entrepreneurial ideas entrepreneurship ethics find a career find a job finding a career finding a job gender equity gender issues gender studies getting motivated getting unstuck gifted education global warming health care health care men's issues health care reform higher education higher education accountability higher education critique higher education reform higher education transparency illegal immigration Israel job creation job hunt job hunting job search job seeking landing a job leadership libertarian libertarianism life well-led marty nemko meaning of life media bias men's health men's issues men's rights men's studies motivation networking Obama Obamanomics pay gap political correctness presidential election procrastination race redistributive justice reinventing college reinventing education reinventing higher education resume reverse discrimination reverse racism reverse sexism school reform self-employment self-employment ideas small business ideas socialism time management willpower
[+] Click here to view all labels
BLOG ARCHIVE

►  2012 (80)
►  2011 (197)
►  2010 (170)
▼  2009 (172)
►  December (5)
►  November (7)
►  October (12)
►  September (10)
►  August (12)
►  July (12)
▼  June (19)
The Latest Example of Censorship of Politically In...
"Is a College Degree Worthless?"
Vocational Training, Not Degrees, May Be a Surer R...
How Exhausted Men Can Still be Good Fathers
How to Find Start-Ups
More Evidence that an MBA Isn't Worth Getting
Join the Army at Age 42?
"What it's Like to Teach Black Students?"
The "Change You Can Believe In" Has Changed Nothin...
"The Impending Demise of the University"
Just Because They're Emotional Doesn't Mean They'r...
Do Women Lack Ambition?
My 90-Second Video on How to Get Promoted in a Rec...
My 90-Second Video on the Job Interview
My 90-Second Video on How to Write a Resume
Commencement 2.0: How I'd Change the Graduation Ce...
The New Ideas the Republicans Need
How Foolish Are We to Stand for Government Motors?...
Best Blogs for Advancing Your Career
►  May (25)
►  April (12)
►  March (22)
►  February (18)
►  January (18)
►  2008 (228)

blogger templates | Make Money Online


ir al contenido
MIS REDDITS
FRONT-ALL-RANDOM | PICS-FUNNY-POLITICS-GAMING-ASKREDDIT-WORLDNEWS-VIDEOS-IAMA-TODAYILEARNED-WTF-AWW-ATHEISM-TECHNOLOGY-ADVICEANIMALS-SCIENCE-MUSIC-MOVIES-BESTOF-FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU-TREES-MINECRAFT-GIFS-POKEMON-4CHAN-LEAGUEOFLEGENDS-THELASTAIRBENDER-MYLITTLEPONY-STARCRAFT-REACTIONGIFS-CIRCLEJERK-DOCTORWHO-SKYRIM-TF2-FACEPALM-GENTLEMANBONERS-DIABLO-LIFEPROTIPS-LADYBONERS-GAMEOFTHRONES-CATS-ANDROID-NBA-MASSEFFECT-SOCCER-ZELDA-NEWS-DAYZ-COMICS-BREAKINGBAD-FOODPORN
MÁS »
reddit.com reddit.comcomentariosrelacionadosotras discusiones (6)
¿quieres unirte? iniciar sesión o registrarse en segundos|español

este enlace fue enviado el 03 Jul 2009
266 puntos (72% me gusta)
424 votos positivos 158 votos negativos
shortlink:
recordarmeresetear contraseñainiciar sesión
reddit.com
suscribirse887.828 lectores
This subreddit is archived and no longer accepting submissions.
creado por spezcomunidad desde hace 6 años
Envía un enlace
sobre cualquier cosa interesante: una noticia, un blog, un vídeo, una foto...
message the moderators
MODERADORES
hueypriest
spladug
alienth
chromakode
bsimpson
intortus
kemitche
cupcake1713
266
What is it Like to Teach Black Students. (martynemko.blogspot.com)
enviado hace 3 años por gn3xu5
558 comentarioscompartir
mejores 200 comentariosver 500
ordenado por: mejores
[–]aeromax 33 puntos 3 años atrás
Idiocy is contagious. When you're in a room with twenty-five other people and they're all sitting quietly taking notes, yelling out and throwing things makes you look like an ass. Conversely, if everyone in the room is screaming and jumping, you will look like an ass if you're sitting there taking notes. Not obviously, of course, but people will notice. I was in a 'juvenile detention facility' for a week in December - they had this pathetic imitation of a "school" there. And nobody gave a damn about the work, not the "teachers" and not the "students". It had nothing to do with anyone being black or white - almost everyone there was a complete douche. A couple guys were at least a little mature, but the rest were dumbasses.
enlace
[–]deadbob 41 puntos 3 años atrás
Since I went to a predominantly black middle school and high school in Texas (graduated in early 90's from HS), I can attest to most of this is spot on. MOST OF THIS, NOT ALL OF THIS. The hair ripping comment? 100% true. Boys fight with a "marquis of queensbery" agreement (ie no hits to the groin). Girls fight dirty, black girls fight way past dirty (ie ripping weaves out of a girls hair and saying "I got tha weave" dirty).
enlace
[–]gensek 13 puntos 3 años atrás
It's not a race thing. Anyone who's done teaching knows that girls can be more vicious than boys. I suspect it's because with boys the conflicts come into open, get resolved and forgotten rather quickly, whereas with girls a single aside remark can be revenged with unbelieveable violence years later.
enlacepadre
[–]CC440 9 puntos 3 años atrás
The only fights that ever occurred at my high school were between the white-trash girls. We only had 3 black kids in a school of 1500. The top 25 public schools in my state all shared similar demographics.
I agree with the author's main point that an all-white school is the greatest educational gift you can give a kid if you have the choice of public institutions.
enlacepadre
[–]windynights 14 puntos 3 años atrás
Interesting. We're used to seeing poor achievement in inner city schools blamed on poor teachers. Everything is done to avoid blaming the habits or attitudes of students or their families. It's been a huge and embarrassing exercise in dishonesty. Sadly, families struggle to send their kids to specific schools to avoid the nonsense allowed by a society that no longer is able to speak freely on sensitive things.
enlacepadre
[–]CC440 3 puntos 3 años atrás
Add more tiered education. Don't hold back the few achievers for the sake of the students who are there because of their legal obligation. We had 4 tiers of classes, core, academic, honors, and AP. Each teacher had to handle at least 2 tiers, that way all the good teachers weren't solely focused on the best students.
Some kids simply don't care and thus resources should be directed away from them.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]deadbob 7 puntos 3 años atrás
hrm, true. But from my personal observation, I never saw white, asian or hispanic girls fight ever (or at least in the school hallways). Black girls fought all most at the drop of a hat. I blame the heat and humidity (makes people grouchy).
enlacepadre
[–]gensek 2 puntos 3 años atrás*
Possibly. I taught in an all-white school in a 99.9% white country so my personal observations about behavioral differences are based on social/cultural aspects, not racial. Kids' behaviour was a direct function of the time their parents spent with them and, to a smaller degree, their ethnicity.
I still maintain what I said earlier, though - boys have fights, girls wage wars;)
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–][deleted] 5 puntos 3 años atrás
I got tha weave
I think I might have laughed a little too hard at that.
enlacepadre
[–]DiarrheaMonkey 2 puntos 3 años atrás
"Girls fight dirty, black girls fight way past dirty"
Why is it no one can defend this article without engaging in the same unqualified statements about all black people as the article did?
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (3 respuestas)
[–][deleted] 13 puntos 3 años atrás
I teach middle school. I have worked with African-American students, albeit in a lower-to-upper-middle-class, semi-suburban area in central Indiana. My experience has been that students (and this goes for students of all colors) will respond to an instructor's attitude toward them. I can't help but wonder if at least 50% of this teacher's problems have to do with his blatantly negative attitude toward his students.
On another note, it makes me kind of sad to see the smile light up a young African-American man's face when I actually say hello, hold a door for him, ask him a question or for a favor in a polite tone of voice, etc. . . it's pretty obvious they expect to be treated either with fear or as though they were invisible.
enlace
[–]PonziSchemer 9 puntos 3 años atrás
Knowing that redditors are about 89% black, I wonder whether this will be upvoted or downvoted...
enlace
[–]Slackerboy 2 puntos 3 años atrás
Where did you pull that stat?
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]selectrix 9 puntos 3 años atrás*
Aaron Mcgruder (creator of "Boondocks") addresses so much of this so well (see the episode The Return of the King).
enlace
[–]gerundronaut 2 puntos 3 años atrás
Excellent episode. Best ever, probably.
enlacepadre
[–]deadbob 37 puntos 3 años atrás
oh and the first commenter on the page: "The promotion of Rap Music, Celebrity Life, and other illusions have capture young African Americans minds. A form of new slavery." SPOT ON (applies to all young Americans, not just black kids).
enlace
[–]sigh 11 puntos 3 años atrás
By that standard wouldn't most examples of culture be forms of slavery?
enlacepadre
[–]klobbermang 16 puntos 3 años atrás
I think he means that the aspects of that particular culture promote mostly unattainable goals which lead people to not focus on more important things which leads them in the long run to become uneducated and lacking "real world" skills thus forcing them into a life of poverty (slavery)
enlacepadre
[–]uppity_cunt 4 puntos 3 años atrás*
The opiate of the masses: owning shiny things and staring at undulating boobs and asses
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (3 respuestas)
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]Tschaner 25 puntos 3 años atrás
This article brings back memories of my education. I am white, and was the object of aggression from the type of ignorance mentioned. While serving my incarceration in high school, I learned to appreciate the fact that doing a half ass job on an assignment still put me ahead of 90% of the class that did nothing. The classrooms were uncontrollable, and impossible to learn in. Even at a young age I felt bad for the teachers. One of my best friends throughout high school was black, and very often was called half-breed because of his preference to speak English. One event not so well remembered was waking up on the hallway floor, after being hit in the back of the head with a book. The only thing I distinctly remember was being called a honky. There is no doubt in my mind that I would be at a better place in life, had I gone to a "white" school.
enlace
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–]RufusJSquirrel 18 puntos 3 años atrás
I don't have time to read through all the comments on this article but I have been thinking about it all night.
What the author has lost is his hope that somewhere there is a chance that things will improve in the black community.
I live in a particularly "diverse" neighborhood and am white. I moved here by choice. I love the city that I live in (Dirty South) and insisted - against my girlfriend's better judgment and concerns for her teenaged son - that we live in the city and not the infuriating suburban sprawl that surrounds it. I am a libertarian socialist or anarcho-syndicalist, depending on how you want to slice it, and believe that racism is essentially tied to class and if people will ever recognize that, we could solve everything. I am a strong believer in the black power and liberation movements of the '60's and '70's. And, of course, I "have black friends."
But what I have seen - living in this neighborhood, working for and with blacks and what I see in my local politics - puts me very close to abandoning what I have always wanted to believe about the Afro American community in America. I have not yet abandoned hope but in the black community I see little to no reason to hold onto it. The black liberation movement has run a long arc but it died in the early '90's. It eventually collapsed into a wholesale endorsement of black market capitalism at its worst. A full-throated embrace of money and bitches.
There is a brothel down the street from me where a black pimp whores out white women. There is a shed in my alley where a black teenager kept a pit bull mutt puppy who he would beat relentlessly, apparently in hopes of fighting it. There are drug dealers across the street and Section 8 residents who scream at and fight with each other nearly every night.
I am acutely aware of the challenges my neighbors face and I, having lived on the edge for nearly 15 years now (broadband bill gets paid - everything else is optional), am extremely sympathetic to those problems. But it becomes clearer ever day that no one in the black community has any interest in remedying the source of those problems. No longer are blacks concerned with equalization - they are only now interested in gaming the system - consequences be damned.
I will not give up on them, as the author has. But I'm also sick of making excuses, too. I am eternally underwhelmed by the voices of the black community. I am beyond sick of the pimping of legacies by pioneers' children on their families' names (see The King Center as exhibit A). I am sick of self segregation. And I am completely fucking sick of the racism I see out of the black community.
I don't have any clue where and how this shakes out. But I'm glad that someone is talking about it. We need to seriously examine these issues and insure that such discussion can take place free of charges of racism. But more importantly, we need to make sure these discussions lead to action.
enlace
[–]Sle 4 puntos 3 años atrás
[I] believe that racism is essentially tied to class and if people will ever recognize that, we could solve everything.
Yes, nobody seems to make that link, more's the pity.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (5 respuestas)
cargar más comentarios (3 respuestas)
[–]mutatron 54 puntos 3 años atrás
One of the most immediately striking things about my students was that they were loud.
You can say that again! What is it with black people being loud? It's kind of like the stereotype of the ugly American on vacation in Europe times ten.
enlace
[–]starkwhite 23 puntos 3 años atrás
You've obviously never been on holiday with Italians.
enlacepadre
[–]Differentiate 12 puntos 3 años atrás
you racis'
enlacepadre
[–]hess88 13 puntos 3 años atrás
The reason I was told (I live in Africa) is that they talk loud because when you talk softly, someone else thinks you are gossiping about them. I personally think it has to do with dominance – the more aggressive (and this seems to be inversely related with intelligence) a person is the louder he speaks.
enlacepadre
[–]JoeFelice 8 puntos 3 años atrás
I realized the author was full-blown racist when he tied the guy in Zimbabwe to his students. They have nothing to do with each other. I felt like I was back reading Atlas Shrugged and interlopers were collapsing society on all sides.
There are under 2 million people on welfare, of any race, in a nation with 36 million blacks.
1/4 of America's blacks are poor, and the ghetto does some very fucked up, long lasting generational shit, but I have known too many of the other 3/4 to give this writer a pass for ascribing his ghetto war stories to all blacks. By the way, I have subbed in a ghetto high school, and I've seen what he's talking about. It's fucking rough. But the intensity of their problems don't cause them to spill over into everyone else who has the same skin color...unless you're a racist.
enlacepadre
[–]JudgeHolden 2 puntos 3 años atrás
According to Zora Neale Hurston and other anthropologists it has its roots --not surprisingly-- in West African culture. I myself have never been to West Africa and therefore do not know this to be true from personal experience.
enlacepadre
[–][eliminado] 3 años atrás
[deleted]
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (4 respuestas)
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–]belletti 34 puntos 3 años atrás
Pregnancy was common among the blacks, though many black girls were so fat I could not tell the difference.
enlace
[–][deleted] 3 puntos 3 años atrás
I did not laugh when I read it in the essay for reasons I can not explain...but when reading your comment I must admit I snorted :)
enlacepadre
[–]Gimmick_Man 23 puntos 3 años atrás
YOU RACIS.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
cargar más comentarios (8 respuestas)
[–]jdog2050 19 puntos 3 años atrás
Ok, first of all, I am black. Second of all, I went to a lower-middle class school in the south suburbs of Chicago. I also returned to my home district as an adult and worked as a substitute teacher.
I can only think of a handful of times where classes were remotely as obnoxious as what this teacher describes. I think this guy got the shit end of the stick, and instead of simply trying to find new work, blames the people he's teaching.
I'm sorry, but yeah, this article is indeed "racis'". The guy could have just worked somewhere the hell else. They could have even been black students, and they'd have been better.
enlace
[–]dgreensp 1 punto 3 años atrás
It sounds like the local black culture where the author worked and the culture you grew up in are different. It's unclear whether the author realizes this; if he thinks all classrooms in the US that are predominantly black are similar to what he experienced, then perhaps he's making a racist generalization, or perhaps he just needs to be educated about the extent of cultural diversity present in the US among black Americans.
It's true that we catch glimpses of the author not displaying the best of attitudes in dealing with his students. But he seemed to recognize how unfortunate it was that his sympathy for his students, who for whatever reason were largely provided with no interest in what he had to offer, was breaking down. Which is probably why he transferred.
enlacepadre
[–]jwbernier2 4 puntos 3 años atrás
(I'm waiting to see if someone who posted one of those triumphalist, white-male-backlash comments has the balls to respond to you with a 'naive liberals simply refuse to face the truth' rant.)
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]robotbutler 15 puntos 3 años atrás
"Liberals ... liberals ... liberalism is doomed ... liberals' fault ... Africans are irrational ... unteachable ... rap music ... integration has failed ... drugs ... black kids do drugs ... rap lyrics ... only drugged up white girls fuck blacks ... stories about multiracial children are liberal propaganda ... please segregate everything ... nothing ever works on black kids so stop trying"
Certainly there's some truth to his stories but he gives no consideration to WHY things are this way. The fatness of black girls has everything to do with how there are no actual grocery stores or produce in poor urban neighborhoods, just glorified 7-11s, and their families have poor food culture. But to hear him tell it you'd think black girls were fat because black people are genetically inferior.
If you want to talk about the frustrations of minority education in this country, fine. But just keep in mind that this essay with its white superiority overtones is the kind of shit that would make stormfronters wet themselves with glee.
enlace
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–][deleted] 66 puntos 3 años atrás
I went to a high school that was about 50% white, 30% hispanic, 15% black, 5% asian. I was an honor student and there were very few hispanics or blacks in those classes. I'd say it was 65% white, 25% asian, and 10% black/hispanic. Call me a racist if you want, but it was clear to me that most of the blacks and hispanics did not care much about school. Actually, there were alot of whites that didn't care, either, but the one thing you didn't see were asian kids getting in trouble or screwing around. It was always black, hispanic, or white kids getting into fights.
I think the teacher was being a bit over-the-top in some of the generalizations, but liberals seem to pretend that stuff like what he said doesn't exist. It does, I experienced it firsthand.
Now, there were some exceptional black students, but most of them got made fun of for "being white". If you were black, you were an athlete or just did nothing. We had some great football players, including one who was a pretty good student, but it just seems like they didn't even care most of the time about school.
With the "no pass, no play" rule here in Texas, the coaches had to get on many of the players to get them to pass, and I'm sure many did it by the skin of their teeth. I often helped some of the guys just so they could be able to play.
It is kinda sad, but, when you think about it, the NFL and NBA are where these kids have their eyes set on. Many of them want to be athletes, and their friends encourage them in this way. Alot of them are lazy, natural athletes but many of them worked their butts off in the weight room and on the field to get a scholarship for sports.
I think it's a mentality that alot of them have that prevents them from wanting to pursue intellectual studies, but there are some who defy the stereotype. Certainly, if you look at a guy like Myron Rolle who is the best of both worlds (football player and Rhodes Scholar), it can be done and we can only hope that more blacks can follow an example like him.
enlace
[–][deleted] 16 puntos 3 años atrás*
I went to a low-income, low-performing school where I was one of a handful of white males. There were a decent number of white chicks, just not many white guys. You're mostly dead-on.
I managed to slide by because my facial features are very European and I look like I belong in a country club. In that context, I was so white that I was almost a foreign exchange student--and I was treated that way. The non-white guys would have been hardcore picked on if they acted like me.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (15 respuestas)
[–][deleted] 7 puntos 3 años atrás
Randomized controls, etc. Teacher is told that a particular pupil is a 'good' or 'bad' pupil. End of <time period>, that student will perform above or below control, exactly as the !completely random! indication of 'good' or 'bad' led the teacher to believe.
I'll go look for the source now.
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 31 puntos 3 años atrás
A white/asian kid, when told by his parents that success is earned by hard work, will believe it. They see the success of his parents as evidence.
A black/hispanic kid, when told the same, doesn't see the reality within his own home, since these are the communities that are the poorest in the USA. So, he is unlikely to believe that success is achievable by hard work. There is no evidence around him. White kids that grow up in rough neighbourhoods in poor families fare just as badly at school.
Kids from the poorest communities, all around the world, all do badly in school. Only a handful see the real value of hard work and rise above it.
It's not a racial/genetic divide, but brought about by the culture of poverty.
Blaming groups or pointing out exceptions do nothing but sweep the real problem under the rug. At least, that's how I see it.
enlacepadre
[–]cptnhaddock 17 puntos 3 años atrás
A decent point. However, most of the first generation Asians were quite poor.
enlacepadre
[–]ShrimpCrackers 5 puntos 3 años atrás*
Many Asian Americans even today are quite poor yet their children still generally do better. Probably due to the fact that Asian parents tend to love beating the fear into their kids. Thats why even those in triads respect their parents.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]DavidDRockefeller 5 puntos 3 años atrás
This is the vicious cycle. Poor kids don't see anything other than poverty, and thus won't work to better themselves because they don't see the benefits.
I don't really see a way of breaking it. The first thought would be to radically restructure the communities (e.g. spread out the poverty in a patchwork among the more affulent so that both sides are more visible to each other). Of course, this is never going to happen. Rich people like to take comfort in the fact that they are richer than other people, but they would never want to have to look at those people.
enlacepadre
[–]belandil 2 puntos 3 años atrás
Counterexample: Historically, poor ethnic communities in NYC eventually were lifted out of poverty and became "integrated." Perhaps this is because most of these communities were whites of some sort, so there was much less visual difference.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–][deleted] 45 puntos 3 años atrás*
Those things you describe aren't about skin color; they're about culture and sub-culture. That is a small but incredibly important distinction. There is no gene for laziness, but there are parenting strategies that favor laziness. There is no gene for success, but there are life experiences that make people (kids) have faith that success is not just possible, but likely.
Of course, you can't just dump money on people and expect them to somehow turn into these mystical paragons of excellence; if lottery stories are any indication, that'd lead to quite the opposite.
The point is, imagine growing up being told that your only chances of success are athletics (which you may not be physically capable of) or crime (which may not appeal to you) or welfare (which, lets face it, sucks). If, from a very early age, they were told that they couldn't control their own life, that success was impossible, and that they'd be better off giving up, what incentive would a person have to even try? The average person would grow up to be someone with very little faith in society, and probably look down on people who did try to better themselves.
So how do we effect change? I personally don't think deliberate self-esteem building is a solution, because that self-esteem is totally artificial. "Everyone's a winner" really means that no one is a winner. What's needed is faith that hard work and dedication pay off; faith in a fair playing field, if you will. And for the playing field to be fair, we need teachers who acknowledge those cultural gaps and still make an effort to bridge them.
But that's not going to happen unless we get over all that stereotyping bullshit. Certain behaviors and traditions have created these stereotypes, but we can absolutely change all of that. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I think recent events have shown that change is absolutely possible, and that we would all benefit greatly by taking a certain slogan more seriously:
Yes we can.
enlacepadre
[–]mutatron 13 puntos 3 años atrás
Those things you describe aren't about skin color; they're about culture and sub-culture.
Okay, not sure what difference that makes, but whatever. My daughter went to public schools in Dallas, but we were lucky in that her elementary school was in the middle of an affluent neighborhood, and the residents there - doctors, lawyers, architects, etc. - were determined to keep the school up to standard. Some poor neighborhoods also fed into the school, making it about 30% white, 40% black, and 20% hispanic, but I didn't really note distinct behavioral differences until high school.
In her high school, whites were down to about 8%, with 42% blacks and 50% hispanics. Advanced placement classes were mostly white, and most of the whites were in those classes and got a pretty good education. The blacks fought often amongst themselves, including the girls pulling out the weaves as mentioned by ManifestDestiny. There were a few knife fights between black boys. Sometimes blacks would push the whites in the halls and try other forms of intimidation against whites, but there was never any huge interracial violence.
Both the blacks and the whites looked down on the hispanics, who were mostly children of illegals. They skipped class pretty often, and dropped out after 10th or 11th grade. There were 1800 kids overall, with 900 in the 10th grade, but only 250 in 12th grade.
My takeaway from this experience is that if you want to bring people up, the best way is for them to be surrounded by good role models. As racist as it sounds "acting white" is the key to success for blacks and hispanics. Actually, I know for a fact that there is at least one white community around here that doesn't "act white", because a friend of mine teaches there. But the point is still valid if you look at the population as a whole. If you want people to be successful, you have to have some way to impart to them the values and behavior of successful people, but some black neighborhood schools are so far removed from that, I don't think it's possible to pull them out of it in the short run.
enlacepadre
[–]daysi 9 puntos 3 años atrás
The difference is that skin color is genetic, whereas culture is learned.
enlacepadre
[–]mutatron 5 puntos 3 años atrás
Yes, we're talking about black culture in the US.
enlacepadre
[–]Carpeabnocto 4 puntos 3 años atrás
The problem exists with low-income blacks, but not so much with higher income blacks. It is also a problem with low income whites, and low income hispanics. Thus the culture issue exists more at an economic level than a racial level, right?
enlacepadre
[–]rayhan314 12 puntos 3 años atrás
"Acting white" is an easy way to put things colloquially, but can be damaging to young minority students, because it implies there is a link between skin color and behavior.
Also, affluent neighborhoods like the ones you mentioned have two advantages. You touched on the first, which is the parents give a shit. This goes a long way in changing the demeanor of the students. The second is that the property taxes from these areas are much greater, and so the public schools are much better funded. It takes a lot of money to run a modernized public school. Textbooks, computers, effective lighting. It all costs a ton of money.
I agree with you, these failing schools aren't going to be fixed in the short term. Even if we filled the schools with brilliant teachers, if the kids aren't motivated, and don't come from a culture of learning, the effect would be largely nullified.
But slowly, these strides will be made. Just takes an assload of money and dedication from people willing to take a lot of stress for very little money.
enlacepadre
[–]knickfan5745 11 puntos 3 años atrás
The second is that the property taxes from these areas are much greater, and so the public schools are much better funded.
Newark, NJ spends 3 to 5 times as much as Livingston, NJ per student. Livingston is one of the top schools in NJ. Newark High Schools rank among the lowest.
I'm not arguing one way or the other. Just thought it was interesting.
enlacepadre
[–]Lycur 4 puntos 3 años atrás
The existence of outliers doesn't invalidate an observed relationship.
enlacepadre
[–]Thoughtseize 5 puntos 3 años atrás
Stereotypes, for instance.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–]frickthejews 2 puntos 3 años atrás
In test scores? There's no good formula, but most of the time, money makes for better schools.
enlacepadre
[–]megrimlock 2 puntos 3 años atrás*
"Acting white" is an easy way to put things colloquially, but can be damaging to young minority students, because it implies there is a link between skin color and behavior.
True, sadly "not acting like a dumbass" or "acting in a way that has been proved to be beneficial" aren't much less harsh even if they don't imply a link between skin color and behavior. How do you tell a collective group to stop acting like fuck-ups? (I'm completely surprised that I'm this far down and haven't seen anyone post this yet.)
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (4 respuestas)
[–]ld9821 3 puntos 3 años atrás
Saying "acting white" is quite possibly the worst way to get any non-white person to do anything. Essentially what you are saying is that if a non-white person speaks well or possesses any semblance or attribute of intelligence that they are co opting their culture and not that they are simply intelligent. It "sounds" racist because it is.
enlacepadre
[–]mutatron 2 puntos 3 años atrás
Exactly, that's why they call it that - to humiliate anyone who "acts white" so they'll stop doing it, so they'll continue "keepin' it ril".
As an aside, my daughter was a cheerleader in high school. There were 30 girls, 4 were black. Black cheerleaders are notorious for being loose in their motions - classically, cheer motions are supposed to be sharp and tight. The black girls learned to conform and "act white" for the sake of the squad, but sometimes when the squad was just goofing around they would break into some "black" motions and the white girls would go along, enjoying being taught how to loosen up. And then sometimes the four black girls would form up and do a cheer "white", for the benefit of the opposing squad, in cases where the opposing squad was all black. Good times!
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–][deleted] 4 puntos 3 años atrás
My takeaway from this experience is that if you want to bring people up, the best way is for them to be surrounded by good role models.
I agree completely. My beef is with people saying these problems are a "black" thing; they're not. They're universal. If they were race related, there wouldn't be any way we could solve them.
Alright, I'll get off my soapbox now. =)
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (21 respuestas)
[–][deleted] 2 puntos 3 años atrás
Just wait til you get to a school that's >5% asian. I've been to such a school, also incidentally, in texas, where the asians and blacks were about equal in their troublemaking. My friend, you will find that civilty and academic achievement are positively related to income, more so than race.
Furthermore, segregatoin is alive in the US, but it's not just along racial lines. We segregate first by class (income), then by race. (i.e. a well off hispanic may have well off white friends, but will not have anything to do with the white trash, or the whtite trash will have poor hispanic friends, but will have nothing to do with the well off hispanics)
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (5 respuestas)
[–]chantelbeatty 33 puntos 3 años atrás
"“Na, homework racis’.” Why did you get an F on the test? “Test racis’.” LOL. If you've got that one pinned you' ve got them all! That's a brave essay. I went to school with some blacks and they were all smart but they also came from established families and had ambitious parents. The blacks in the essay I haven't met but if they're really like that the biggest problem they have isn't racism.
enlace
[–]Whisper 16 puntos 3 años atrás
"“Na, homework racis’.” Why did you get an F on the test? “Test racis’.”
What strikes me is that this is what you're going to get from any sort of teenager if you're dumb enough to hand them a built-in excuse for anything and everything.
These kids probably don't even really think about what "racist" means. They've just learned that it's the magic mouth noise that makes white adults let them have their way.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]mutatron 15 puntos 3 años atrás
There are plenty of them like that, and some who aren't. My daughter went to public schools, and one of her good friends was a black girl from the "ghetto", really just some low rent apartments which is what passes for a ghetto around here. She hated to ride the bus because "I don't want to be on the bus with those ghetto kids."
Her mom was determined to get out of all that, went to school while working full time and became a paralegal. She was still kind of messed up, had three children out of wedlock, the first when she was 17 but the third when she was 35 and getting her paralegal degree. Her mom was only 50 at the time, but she was already like my 80 year old great aunt out in west Texas.
enlacepadre
[–]chantelbeatty 13 puntos 3 años atrás
It's sad to hear stories like yours and the ones in the essay. If we are, as many have stated, no longer allowed a candid discussion on race - or any sensitive subject - we're much diminished as a people and as a society. And how are we helping those who want to break out - let that mean what one chooses - when we refuse to speak out?
enlacepadre
[–]DiarrheaMonkey 3 puntos 3 años atrás
How the hell is saying that black people don't know what romance is, all think everything is racist and the all the other shit he generalizes to black people, a candid discussion?
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (14 respuestas)
[–]jbranscum 26 puntos 3 años atrás
Ya'll commenters prejudis
enlace
[–]SniperGX1 20 puntos 3 años atrás
Da posts ar racis'
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 13 puntos 3 años atrás
Yo chattin' shit bruv ya get me? I don't need none a dis grammar shit, for real dawg.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (5 respuestas)
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]TriggerB 28 puntos 3 años atrás
I had to login and upvote this. If only because I appreciate when people have the balls to say what others wish they could.
enlace
[–]voidwarranty 113 puntos 3 años atrás*
I love how people who most likely have never gone to schools full of low-income blacks who behave exactly as described in that article are calling this article and the author bullshit.
"That article doesn't match my idealistic, naive, liberal world view of equality! It's inherently racist!"
enlace
[–]antimeme 12 puntos 3 años atrás
Anyone here remember this redditor's account of teaching burakumin in Japan? The burakumin are presumably genetically indistinguishable from other Japanese -- nevertheless, centuries of stigma from being in a lower social class still has significant effects to this day, more than 100 years after the caste system was abolished:
I taught a burakumin-descendant school for a day when I worked in Japan. Kids talked on cellphones in class. One had his face made up in a wrestler mask of tape. Another was hammering nails into his desk. My Japanese co-teachers insisted on us performing a lesson "as if the children were attentive, regular Japanese."
Then, I was taken through several locked rooms to a secret teacher's lounge where most of the teachers gathered to smoke and hide from the students. The teachers told me stories about how they must give the apparence of giving an education no matter how ineffective; any other method leads to violence, and that before teachers had agreed on this method, plenty of teachers and students had been beaten up by one another.
enlacepadre
[–]fivre 12 puntos 3 años atrás
I went to a school with some 50% low-income black kids.
There were two or three in the level of classes I was in.
enlacepadre
[–]dbaggerty 9 puntos 3 años atrás
You mean to say, "It's inherently racis'!"
enlacepadre
[–]Lycur 9 puntos 3 años atrás
The applied classes in my predominantly white high school were like this, but we didn't go around saying that's because the students were white.
enlacepadre
[–]antimeme 5 puntos 3 años atrás
It's inherently racist!"
Actually, the author completely admits being a racist -- he is just providing justifications and reasons for his racism. He admits to seeking-out, reading, and admiring books like The Bell Curve and another book written by a white Rhodesian. (Rhodesia is a former Apartheid state, like South Africa was.)
enlacepadre
[–]antimeme 7 puntos 3 años atrás
There's also this gem:
Many white students possess a certain innocence; their cheeks still blush.
This is an age-old trope of "scientific-racism" crowd: "You can't see Blacks blush > Blacks have no outward sign of embarrassment like whites > therefore, Blacks have less humanity."
enlacepadre
[–]2parties1rulingclass 30 puntos 3 años atrás*
I have been in schools with low-income blacks, most of whom did not behave that way, and I have seen that people of any background can behave in the ways described here. The article is racist because it essentially says that all people of African ancestry are stupid, violent and obnoxious. That's clearcut racism. Worse, he bases this on his own narrow experiences with particular groups of low-income blacks, he does not make any effort to explain the reasons for the differences he has observed, and he acts as if no whites anywhere act this way. His rant is completely devoid of discussion of white privilege or social class. This is intellectual laziness to the extreme. He just implies the whole time that this is just how black people are born, which is only evidence that he is blind to his own privilege.
enlacepadre
[–]Redmoons 21 puntos 3 años atrás*
whom did not behave that way...
Where was this? I'm curious. Black students in northern California were mostly civil, but the ones I ran into in the LA area were like beings from a different planet, and acted nearly exactly the way this article describes.
enlacepadre
[–]2parties1rulingclass 2 puntos 3 años atrás*
small-town Louisiana. there were some black students who behaved badly, but there were also a lot of white students who behaved badly. the issue is economic and social circumstances (racism), parenting, poor early education by the parents, and culture (all of which are interconnected in obvious ways), not skin color. I don't doubt the possiblility that most inner-city blacks in Los Angeles act in that way, but the question that needs answering is "why?" The author made no serious attempt to answer that question, so it's just a rant.
enlacepadre
[–]Gimmick_Man 31 puntos 3 años atrás
I have been in schools with low-income blacks and mid-income blacks, and nearly all of them have acted that way. In those same schools I have known blacks who are the complete opposite, even though their lives are all but the same. It really just depends on the person.
You're right about this guy in pretty much every way. He does seem to imply that all blacks are this way, but I have a hard time believing that he believes it.
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 25 puntos 3 años atrás
I remember in high school there were exactly 2 black girls at that school. 2. And those 2 broke out into fist-throwing, hair-pulling, screeching fights every month, sometimes in the middle of a class.
It really isn't about race. It's about growing up poor and being taught that the government owes you everything and everyone is racist and wants you to fail. A vicious circle if ever I saw one.
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 19 puntos 3 años atrás*
It really isn't about race. It's about growing up poor and being taught that the government owes you everything and everyone is racist and wants you to fail. A vicious circle if ever I saw one.
I'm black, and I see your point there. There are parents that raise you to understand that some people out there are racist, so you have to accept the fact that you'll work harder than everyone else if you want to come out even or ahead. Then there are parents who raise kids to think everyone is racist and there's no chance for a poor black kid. When I taught at a school in the inner city, I had the hardest time with students not letting me teach them because I didn't have the same accent and I was lighter than most of them. Some classes were easy to conduct, but I had others where too many kids who wanted to make it personal every day. And yes, they would even accuse me of being racist. The administration wasn't much help, either.
EDIT Although, in regards to the article, which I just finished reading, it does have a strong racist undertone. The part that really got me was his statement that he likes to assign Marcus Garvey, who famously developed Liberia in the belief that all blacks belong in Africa. Garvey probably would be this teacher's black hero. There's lots of other things that made me cringe, too ("the cocky black" comment, for example). This article shouldn't be taken seriously, as I don't think it was written by someone who really wants to see more African Americans do well in America. Sounds like it was written by David Duke or Pat Buchanan.
enlacepadre
[–][eliminado] 3 años atrás
[deleted]
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 7 puntos 3 años atrás*
I think he does a pretty thorough job of othering black people. He also shows a lot of sympathy towards the white students and often juxtaposes one to the other. A lot of times he uses black as a noun, instead of saying "black students", and apparently he has the whole race figured out due to his interaction with adolescents in one part of the South. The idea I get from him is black people don't belong in America. When the blogger says he removed some of the more snarky comments I can imagine what they had to say. I can really see this essay going on a white supremacist website or in one of their pamphlets, no modifications necessary.
To note further, I got the feeling that maybe the author is a white Zimbabwean or South African, either that or he's writing for an international audience. Particularly in the way he cites Zim, describes the geographical location of his work, and then some of the observations he makes sound like they're coming from a foreigner.
enlacepadre
[–]Gimmick_Man 3 puntos 3 años atrás
It's not even growing up poor. It is the other things, though.
enlacepadre
[–]Probablynotclever 2 puntos 3 años atrás*
It really isn't about race. It's about growing up poor and being taught that the government owes you everything and everyone is racist and wants you to fail. A vicious circle if ever I saw one.
Everyone here should read Native Son by Richard Wright, this concept is the basis of the entire novel. It's sad to make that realization because despite the entire equal rights movement, and all of the steps we have taken to end that mentality since the 1940's (which is the time in which the book is set), it is still prevalent and doing great harm to the black community.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]dedzone2k 51 puntos 3 años atrás
"He just implies the whole time that this is just how black people are born."
No, he's merely describing his experience with these black students. People are afraid of the truth. If you took a survey from that school, and lets just say for arguments sake the survey said that most African American students at said school didn't give two shits about education, what do you think the automatic reaction would be?
You'd get shouted down as a racist. Even if it was true. Which is a shame because that community will never improve itself if it doesn't change it's priorities.
enlacepadre
[–]Carpeabnocto 31 puntos 3 años atrás*
He paints "Blacks" as a monolith...explicitly saying, "There simply are no groups of blacks that are as distinctly different from each other." then going on to list points on which "all blacks agree".
I don't disbelieve he had a bad experience...however, he IS extrapolating from his experience, with people who didn't give a shit about education, that all "blacks" are the same way.
I take exception when he draws contrasts such as most whites learn to speak correctly, or that whites have differences while black culture is monolithic. I suspect that some part of his problem working there stems from his inability (or refusal) to see his students as anything other than "blacks."
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (7 respuestas)
[–]DisConform 7 puntos 3 años atrás
You'd get shouted down as a racist. Even if it was true. Which is a shame because that community will never improve itself if it doesn't change it's priorities.
If intelligent and reasoned arguments are made, then people will listen and hopefully learn from it. But how does it help to simply make negative and polarizing observations (in the fashion of a Rush Limbaugh).
From the article:
Many black people, especially black women, are enormously fat. Some are so fat I had to arrange special seating to accommodate their bulk.
I stopped reading the article after this. The tone of these two sentences has to call into the question the writer's objectivity. I will not call him a racists, for I don't know him. But how does this have anything to do with an educational environment?
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 10 puntos 3 años atrás*
Many black people, especially black women, are enormously fat. Some are so fat I had to arrange special seating to accommodate their bulk.
The theme I got from this article is that there are inherent cultural flaws in some parts of America. He was pointing out the flaws he saw that precluded his students from having dignity, self-respect, physical health, and success.
The fact that obesity rates among black women are much higher than any other demographic is a striking cultural flaw--one that needs to be changed.
The article suggests that the efforts to iron out these problems have been totally off-base and therefore unsuccessful. I sensed a rather defeatist tone from the author which I didn't like, but I found the article very interesting nonetheless.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]dedzone2k 7 puntos 3 años atrás
Yeah some of that shit is unnecessary. Don't see how their fatness has any relevance.
"If intelligent and reasoned arguments are made, then people will listen and hopefully learn from it. But how does it help to simply make negative and polarizing observations (in the fashion of a Rush Limbaugh)."
You'd think. I didn't get the Rush Limbaugh feel from this person at all. You assess the situation and from there you draw a strategy. You ignore the realities and assume that you can go Mr. Rogers on then you're kidding yourself.
If you did read on, there were sections about simply getting a class quiet. That a small white woman won't be able to speak over a half dozen people screaming at each other and at her. That many children refused to do any work or take any interest in academic material, even if compromises were made in subject matters. There were kids who thought it was perfectly acceptable to be welfare queens and that a rape during the aftermath of hurricane Katrina was acceptable since they were going to die anyways.
It's dangerous to believe all blacks are like this but it'd be foolish to think that this first person account is all horse shit. These views need to change, everyone's. Sticking our heads in the ground and pretending they don't exist won't make them go away.
enlacepadre
[–]DisConform 16 puntos 3 años atrás
I'm not sticking my head in the sand, hardly. I am a product of a similar environment, so I know from where he speaks. But if we are going to listen to his first person account, also listen to mine's. For better or for worse I was that black kid that did not fit his mold. In fact, no one in my entire family fits that mold. While neither of my parents graduated from college, but both of my sisters and I did. In the end this is all truly about ingrained cultural attitudes regarding education and personal responsibility. Those parents that have understood this themselves usually manage to pull their families out of poverty and are able to put their kids in better schools. Despite not having degrees both my parents were professionals. We were solidly middle class but continued to live in a mixed race neighborhood. This meant that I had friends that did fit the mold of the loud, abrasiveness, and disruptive teens described in the essay. But even given that this was their outward persona some of these kids still went on to college or on to otherwise productive lives. Granted some became crack dealers or dedicated clients of said dealers, but most did not. The majority of blacks in this nation are productive citizens. You would not think so by reading his essay since he paints us all with the same broad brush.
enlacepadre
[–]fjaradvax 10 puntos 3 años atrás
I went to school in an English town with a predominantly white underclass. Not one of the article's generalizations about white people is empirically defensible, in my experience.
enlacepadre
[–]elephantitis 3 puntos 3 años atrás*
I'll agree with you on your last point, but you really should read the rest of the article after that. I have no clue what he was thinking when he wrote that part, but the rest is very informative of how bad it really is.
enlacepadre
[–]DisConform 3 puntos 3 años atrás*
I don't need to read the article to know what he's talking about. I graduated from the L.A. Unified School District. I know exactly what he's talking about. There is an obvious difference in how black people communicate when they are in a group. There is no argument about that. Watching Jamie Foxx host the BET Awards one could clearly see that he was not in the same persona as when he's being interviewed on David Letterman. There is a problem in our inner city schools. It does not take a burnt out teacher to enlighten us on this. Having been there, I know that there is a lot of negative energy in the class rooms. But like any energy this too can be harnessed if funneled in the right direction. For instance:
Many of my black students would repeat themselves over and over again— just louder. It was as if they suffered from Tourette syndrome.... I might be leading a discussion on government and suddenly be interrupted: “We gotta get more Democrats! Clinton, she good!” The student may seem content with that outburst but two minutes later, he would suddenly start yelling again: “Clinton good!”
Ok, there was an outburst. But not necessarily an unintelligent one. Did he stop to ask the student why he felt Democrats were better than Republicans or why Clinton was a better candidate? Or did he just dismiss the comment as being based on ignorance and unworthy of discussion? I am a product of that environment. Ultimately I benefited from good parenting, but I was also inspired a by a few very good focused and dedicated teachers. Many of these kids can be reached I've seen it happen with my own eyes.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–]DavidDRockefeller 17 puntos 3 años atrás*
Yes, the article is extreme and too broadly labeling. No one is going to disagree that this is not how most blacks act.
Now get over it.
Can you look past the offense you've taken and see this article for what it's meant to be? It's about time that somebody tried to have an honest discussion about race in this country (god forbid they base it off of their experience!). The truth is that there is deterioration that is happening in our cities that has become defined by race, and the rest of our culture is doing its best to pretend it doesn't exist. The term racist is being thrown out on anyone who refuses to admit that the problem isn't there and decides to talk about it and offer their opinion. Our American culture doesn't yet talk openly about race. It's time we start.
enlacepadre
[–]Lycur 9 puntos 3 años atrás
it's not defined by race, so much as it's defined by economic status. Unfortunately, suggesting class privlege is shouted down extremely quickly.
enlacepadre
[–]hatchington 18 puntos 3 años atrás
It has as little to do with economic status as it does with race. If you seriously consider this topic, you'll realize that there are plenty of low-income groups who perform well. So then what is the determining factor? Culture.
Culture is like software. To use an analogy, hardware-wise we human beings are all pretty much the same, but our software is vastly different and can disadvantage us greatly.
The bright side is that our software can be changed. But only if we first realize that it can and should be changed, instead of pretending that we simply haven't found the right tools to teach certain cultural groups, as if they're somehow fundamentally "other".
enlacepadre
[–]ShrimpCrackers 3 puntos 3 años atrás
Many Chinese Americans are poor as hell and live in what were once tenement houses that you read about. Except the apartments have been cut even smaller into tiny closets.
Yet they are able to do it. So no, not mainly an economic issue.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (3 respuestas)
cargar más comentarios (3 respuestas)
[–]Running_Bear23 7 puntos 3 años atrás*
The truth is the truth whether it comes from Hitler, Jesus, the FSM, or your mom.
Now, he might be biased, and he might be a bit lazy, but he's got some good points. It's intellectually lazy to ignore a source just because it has a few flaws. Read the source, analyze it in light of those flaws, and then keep what you have learned.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
cargar más comentarios (6 respuestas)
[–][deleted] 4 puntos 3 años atrás
It's inherently racist!
racis'
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 3 puntos 3 años atrás
Out of curiosity, to what factor or factors do you attribute the students' behavior?
enlacepadre
[–]CC440 21 puntos 3 años atrás
Southeastern US black culture.
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 5 puntos 3 años atrás
Fair enough.
enlacepadre
[–]easyhistory 11 puntos 3 años atrás*
1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pyW6w5B7Aw
2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11BeXv6eaJo
3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWulZOKANB4
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 4 puntos 3 años atrás
Nailed it. This article sounds exactly like the schools around here in Memphis.
enlacepadre
[–]mcn00ber 13 puntos 3 años atrás*
His inability to manage a classroom. I, a white female, teach ~ 90 students in the South Bronx. And I make damn sure my students and I garner enough respect for each other that they do not talk over me, nor I over them. Not one fight, verbal or physical, broke out in my classroom this year. But they did in other classes. It comes down to how you, as an educator, manage your classroom. This man assigning them work, and saying they never did it, tells me one thing. He doesn't hold them to the expectation of doing it. My students, whether general ed or special ed (3-R emotionally disturbed class), turned in their work because I didn't let them get away with not doing it.
The danger of this article is that it is 1 experience that has been skewed and distorted by the filters through which he sees the world.
If he says his students are all the same, act the same way, I can tell you that, as a teacher, he does not know his students.
He now teaches at an all white school, and I am thankful. He was doing a disservice to his previous students by lumping them together.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–]kihadat 7 puntos 3 años atrás*
What's bullshit is his attitude. What's bullshit about your attitude is your implied assertion that to be liberal is to be naive.
enlacepadre
[–]bigballin7491 6 puntos 3 años atrás*
It is not my idealistic, naive, liberal world views that make me believe the author is racist. It is quotes like these that do. Look at the massive generalizations the author makes.
"There is something else that is striking about blacks. They seem to have no sense of romance, of falling in love."
"One point on which all blacks agree is that everything is “racis’.”
"Perhaps this was a regional thing, but the blacks often sucked air through their teeth as a wordless expression of disdain or hostility."
"Blacks want a bigger piece of the American pie."
"Many girls—all too many—actually feel guilty because they do not want to date blacks. Most white girls at my school stayed away from blacks, but a few, particularly the ones who were addicted to drugs, fell in with them."
"How did my experiences make me feel about blacks? Ultimately, I lost sympathy for them."
"One teacher I knew gave up fast food—not for health reasons but because where he lived most fast-food workers were black. He had enough of blacks on the job."
"Many white students possess a certain innocence; their cheeks still blush. Try as I might, I could not get the blacks to care one bit about Beethoven or Sherman’s march to the sea, or Tyrtaeus, or Oswald Spengler, or even liberals like John Rawls, or their own history."
"But the real black is not on television, and you pull your purse closer when you see him, and you lock the car doors when he swaggers by with his pants hanging down almost to his knees."
enlacepadre
[–][eliminado] 3 años atrás*
[deleted]
enlacepadre
[–]bigballin7491 3 puntos 3 años atrás
It's funny that you judge me based off of a username when you have no idea how that username came about. But what do I know, you seem to know more about me than I do.
I think it's fair to say that the author of the article now generalizes all blacks as the same. Sure they were observations based on his time teaching, but I'm sure the things he said he believed didn't just apply to his students.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
cargar más comentarios (11 respuestas)
[–]zuoken 6 puntos 3 años atrás
Just remember, you're defending an essay that said this:
One might object that there are important group differences among blacks that a white man simply cannot detect. I have done my best to find them, but so far as I can tell, they dress the same, talk the same, think the same. Certainly, they form rival groups, but the groups are not different in any discernible way. There simply are no groups of blacks that are as distinctly different from each other as white “nerds,” “hunters,” or “Goths,” for example.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–]rvf 3 puntos 3 años atrás
I'm pretty struck by the number of "omg racism" comments vs the "Yup, that's how white trash act" comments attached to life in rural kentucky (photo essay)
enlacepadre
[–]DiarrheaMonkey 3 puntos 3 años atrás
White trash is a subset of white people. He constantly refers to "black people", making no attempt to distinguish his students from the race as a whole. Indeed some of his comments can only be read as generalizations about race.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (14 respuestas)
[–][eliminado] 3 años atrás
[deleted]
enlace
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–][deleted] 8 puntos 3 años atrás
I had to teach a class full of Indian kids, everyone did their homework and followed the rules. By the end of the year everyone landed sweet IT jobs or went to medical school- which was weird because I taught 8th grade.
enlace
[–]cleverkid 2 puntos 3 años atrás
I lol'd
enlacepadre
[–]superdude264 3 puntos 2 años atrás*
I recently graduated from a high school in a mid-sized city in the southeast (the graduating class was around 250). Just before graduation, we had some downtime (post-exam) in my AP Calculus BC, where I was talking to the 3 black girls (the only blacks in the class). They realized that there were no blacks in any AP classes offered to juniors & sophomores. Basically, there was no chance of a black person being in AP Calculus BC for 3 years at a school that was half-black. I don't really know what the story says, but I was friends with all these girls, and I remember that there was definite sense of shame about the fact.
Sometime later, I went to their graduation party. I couldn't help but observe that all three of these girls came from households with a father, and that one or both parents had a job that granted a stable, middle-class living. I think there is a tendency to downplay how much of an advantage an emotionally & economically stable household is. There is this tendency to think "if only these kids worked hard enough," but is that really fair? They don't know where they are going to get dinner from, they don't know if they'll have a house next month, and they don't know what's going to happen to them if they need medical attention. It's hard for kids to care about there education anyway, usually it takes prodding and encouragement from parents. In situations like the above however, is it any surprise that the parents don't care?
The sad fact is that there is very little you can do in the school system alone that is going to take a low-income, young kid with apathetic parents and turn him into a star student. To systematically bring up achievement requires making big social & cultural changes to allow their parents to feel secure in the present, so they have the time & energy to worry about their child's future.
enlace
[–]rednecktash 2 puntos 2 años atrás
i think they're just retarded with no sense of respect for humanity
enlacepadre
[–]frankyj009 10 puntos 3 años atrás
looks like this blog post has been picked up by many white supremacist sites, that doesn't make me feel good
enlace
[–][deleted] 9 puntos 3 años atrás
this might have worked better if he had made a large bold-type phrase at the top saying, "where you read 'black' please realize i am only referring to the black students that i saw in my classes, and while it may seem that i am extrapolating to include all black people, this would in fact be ridiculous", or something. I don't doubt that he describes his experiences accurately, but he has no business making generalizations so broad.
that said, I think this is no accident. Powermongers need boogeymen, and if it is your agenda to sustain racism, then what better way to do it than make a pathetically insufficient welfare program that discourages escape from it, and foist the most asinine juvenile music on people. This culture didn't just arise, there were shitty people fanning the flames all along...and many of them were black. Reagan got his crack epidemic when he tossed out everyone from the mental health programs onto the street, instant crisis, please help us oh benevolent grampaw. what a load of shit. and if you want to make blacks look like inherent fools, what better way than to reward the worst impulses, and make them think it's their own idea.
enlace
[–]redawn 15 puntos 3 años atrás
my kids attended a majority minority school for four years. . .this is dead on.
I think it can be helped. . .but white women are not the ones to help, they are too busy 'understanding the difficulties these kids have at home". . .fuck that life is pain. . .
I have maintained get some black grandmothers (someone willing to say 'sit your ass down!') in there to help deal with the kids. . .it does no one any good to have the minority students not sitting down and not listening.
But white women are too polite to deal with it. . .and it hurts the kids the most. . .an unruly kindergartner is a child no one wants in their 1st grade classroom and once they are past 4th grade the system has thrown them out in theory. ..sure they still attend school . .. but no one expects much of them.
enlace
[–]Capitalist_Piglet 4 puntos 3 años atrás
Get some drill sergeants in there. Like on Sally!
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (7 respuestas)
[–]gerundronaut 3 puntos 3 años atrás
This is somewhat off-topic but, damn, Marty Nemko: <br> tags every 5 words really makes the text hard to read. Blogs are not newspapers.
enlace
[–][deleted] 10 puntos 3 años atrás
Well, it was good while it lasted but the overwhelming outpouring of sheer racist stupidity that drove me away from Digg has for once reared it's ugly head...you've let me down Reddit.
enlace
[–]spikedLemur 2 puntos 3 años atrás
Yeah, I've been on Reddit for three years now, and there's been a massive change over the last year. Every topic seems to be increasingly dominated by overt racism, antisemitism, and extreme anti-government diatribes. It's like Reddit is slowly morphing into Stormfront.
enlacepadre
[–]umilmi81 13 puntos 3 años atrás
It's easy. If they get the question right, you put peanut butter on their gums. If they get it wrong, you hit them with the stick.
enlace
[–]froderick 3 puntos 3 años atrás
I laughed much harder at your comment than I should have.
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 3 puntos 3 años atrás
omg
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]messlah 13 puntos 3 años atrás
dat teacher racis!
enlace
cargar más comentarios (7 respuestas)
[–]superryan 15 puntos 3 años atrás
I waned to slap the kid who said he couldn't do his homework 'cause he is black. You should have to pass a civics test to vote, most of those students shouldn't be allowed to.
enlace
[–]CowboyBoats 16 puntos 3 años atrás
For a second I read your username as "superaryan."
enlacepadre
[–]bungeman 5 puntos 3 años atrás
I have always thought of vote tests to be fundamentally bad, simply because the powers that be will always rig it to their own advantage. However, if one could make sure it would not set a precedent for further tests, there could be a test which consists solely of stating (written or oral or otherwise communicate) who the candidates are (at least two in opposed races). in order to vote on a race. For proposition votes, a voter would need to know the title of the proposition in order to vote on it.
This type of test is simple, has correct unambiguous answers, and only tests that one is reasonably prepared to vote. Of course this, as any other such test, would be gamed somehow, so I'd still be against it. (And people would just read it off a piece of paper anyway, there is no good way to test knowledge in general.) But it's an interesting idea.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
cargar más comentarios (14 respuestas)
[–][deleted] 10 puntos 3 años atrás
That essay is very true. I was a subcontractor working for Broward County schools in south Florida. (Ft. Lauderdale and vicinity). This was the 5th largest school district in the US supposedly. Many of the schools were predominantly black with the exception of a few schools that were mostly white for the smarter students.
My job was to work on classroom computers, etc. The black students were WILD and i mean WILD. It didn't matter if it was grade school, middle school or highschool. The teachers had NO control over them.
One time in a highschool, one of them went around and cut all the keyboard and mouse cables with a pair of scissors then started jumping up and down on the desk. His friends had "grills" (fake gold teeth) and fake gold chains and were laughing histerically while the teacher was completly unphased and went on with the lecture! I was dumfounded. I got used to that sort of behavior throughout the rest of the time I was working for the schools.
They would fight, throw things, call female teachers "sugar", etc. They were not there for an education. I can honestly say that over 90% of them were like this. Sherrifs would be called on a daily basis to break up fights and there were thefts and drugs even in grade school.
Many schools were shut down due to lack of funding and failure rates making other schools even more crowded.
I quit after a while and sincerly feel sorry for those teachers.
enlace
[–][deleted] 2 puntos 3 años atrás
At least they didn't throw feces.... right?
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 7 puntos 3 años atrás
There was a fresh-off-the-boat Haitian kid that shit in the library
enlacepadre
[–]DiarrheaMonkey 2 puntos 3 años atrás
"That essay is very true."
This essay is a string of insulting stereotypes. Sure, much of it may have been accurate if he had qualified his statements, but he didn't, and in some places he explicitly extends the behavior to all blacks.
enlacepadre
[–]tedtakestexas 4 puntos 3 años atrás
if this issue of how effed up educationed in america is at all interests you, go watch season 4 of a show called The Wire. go pay the 4.99/mo from netflix and get it now. you will not regret it. better yet, watch the whole series.
enlace
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]cojoco 6 puntos 3 años atrás
"Unlike whites, who tread gingerly around the subject of race, they can be brutally to the point."
Hmmmmmmn...
enlace
[–]Sle 4 puntos 3 años atrás
Unlike middle class whites, who tread gingerly around the subject of race, they can be brutally to the point.
I done did fixed it.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]LowFuel 2 puntos 3 años atrás
Teach them to use a question mark.
enlace
[–]alchemeron 7 puntos 3 años atrás*
I read the whole thing. I was prepared to come back and take the authors to task for being racist or, possibly, for merely trying to make a sociological point that, if we changed "black" to "Indian" and "white" to "Japanese" wouldn't be considered racist at all.
However. This essay is so fucked up, in so many different ways, from so many different points of view... I wash my hands of it. It is so far beyond my ken that I am unable, completely unable to pass judgment one way or the other.
Edit: I saw this comment after the essay...
Mr. Nemko and Mr. Jackson: You are brave to post this. It's not often we see truths this uncomfortable spelled out in such stark terms. People are afraid to tell them for fear of being labeled racists.
I don't know what to call this thing, but "the truth" would not be my first instinct.
enlace
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]cleverkid 4 puntos 3 años atrás
'Dis Racis'
..I smell a Meme.
enlace
cargar más comentarios (4 respuestas)
[–]kurin 7 puntos 3 años atrás
Why is it so difficult to separate terrible behavior from the race of the people who have terrible behavior?
It was not unusual for five blacks to be screaming at me at once. Instead of calming down and waiting for a lull in the din to make their point—something that occurs to even the dimmest white students blacks just tried to yell over each other.
Yeah, I went to schools that were about 150% white and I can tell you there were plenty of kids who were screaming over each other.
enlace
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–]uppity_cunt 5 puntos 3 años atrás*
I went to a diverse American high school with 4200 students.
White students are like this, too.
enlace
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–]Mitch_NZ 6 puntos 3 años atrás
Wow. I don't even know what to think about this.
enlace
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–][deleted] 10 puntos 3 años atrás*
All blacks want to know. Different races have different abilities. You would be hard pressed to find a single black person who thinks that blacks aren't better athletes than whites or Asians. Conversely, you would have just as hard of a time finding a black who thinks that Asians or whites may be better suited for being clear thinkers. So blacks think they are just as smart (if not smarter) than other races but are also more gifted athletically. If this statement I made is true then almost all blacks by definition are racist.
enlace
[–]Lycur 7 puntos 3 años atrás
Ok. He started off his post by suggesting all blacks were welfare leeches. He's being upvoted. You know what reddit? I give up. Fuck it. Fuck 'dem niggers! Woo hoo hivemind!
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 6 puntos 3 años atrás
You don't think this isn't true across different races? Lots of white people might say that white people are the best at sports, if you're looking at, say, swimming. Different cultures think they're superior because they are the best at what their culture considers important.
enlacepadre
[–]mutatron 13 puntos 3 años atrás
At least 90% of the best sprinters are blacks who trace their origins to west Africa. At least 90% of the best swimmers are white. This isn't a matter of people thinking they are superior, it's just how things are and there are physiological reasons for that.
When you go to longer foot races you get more white people being able to win, but when you get to the marathon, you have mostly Ethiopeans and Kenyans, who are physically different from west Africans.
But on the other hand, it's not necessarily something that makes a difference in everyday life. For example, at the highest level, men are still faster at sprinting than women by about 0.8 seconds in the 100 m dash. But only a small fraction of men around the world could even hope to keep up with the fastest women sprinters.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
cargar más comentarios (18 respuestas)
[–]mensrea 6 puntos 3 años atrás
Bile racist bullshit. I went to predominately black schools k-8. Poor southern ones. I'm black. I'm a lawyer. IQ 133. Once again reddit you disappoint me?
"No sense of romance...?!" FU you piece of shit! Teaching is not your calling. And the snarky parts were OMITTED?????!
Pure bile.
enlace
[–][deleted] 6 puntos 3 años atrás
Once again reddit you disappoint me?
I'm still hoping this is just a forum invasion from Stormfront.
enlacepadre
[–]mensrea 2 puntos 3 años atrás
One can only hope.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (15 respuestas)
[–]CowboyBoats 5 puntos 3 años atrás*
Black kids in poor schools behave differently because they're poor, not because they're black.
Demographically, black people and poor people coincide much too often in the United States. We call this an "achievement gap." As a side effect, black culture and the culture of poverty have become inextricable here.
Racial demographics, not racial biology, is the explanation for the obesity, the conspicuous consumption ("grills," expensive sneakers), the use of Ebonics instead of standard English, and the other miscellaneous cultural differences that perplex the uninitiated. It has nothing to do with skin color or ethnicity.
Chris Jackson, the writer, is a racist because he looked at his skewed sample of his urban, poor, black students who share a specific common culture, and made conclusions about "blacks." He understood that cultural forces were in play in each of his students' minds, yet in the end he says he lost sympathy for them.
Everyone who wants to be a teacher should read this, for two reasons. The first is that the stories Jackson tells carry the ring of truth. If you can mentally substitute "economically disadvantaged, culture-of-poverty students" for Jackson's callous "blacks," it's a useful snapshot of what those schools are like.
The second reason is that there are a lot of teachers like Jackson out there, and it helps to be able to recognize and condemn the attitude of such burnouts.
enlace
[–]malandro 2 puntos 3 años atrás*
edit: tl;dr I agree with you since as an example we have my country which has a higher poverty that expands across many races, but we are kept in line by our non-afraid bad ass butt-kicking teachers. And penis.
You have nailed it. Most of my schooling was done over at my country, Ecuador, and the last 2 years of high school were done here in the US. I lived in a very peculiar town so I am not sure if my experience might represent the majority of the country. I went to one of the 3 public High Schools in the town (there were also 3 private ones which had a very low volume of students) and the majority of students in my class were from poor families. I was one of 5 or 6 middle class kids, there was one rich kid and the rest came from poor families, roughly 30 students. One of the things that I think reduced the differences and placed us at the same level was the use of uniforms, since we all dressed the same there was no distinction of cultures, we were all students and were there to learn whether we liked it or not. Added to that the teachers don't have to worry about getting sued if they have to discipline somebody, so from the start we knew that we couldn't pull the shit kids pull over here in the US. Our differences were obvious once we would talk to each other since different wealth classes have different accents, but that is a far as it would go. In my country the poverty extends across many races so it is hard to point to just one race as the one with the most problems.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]PonziSchemer 4 puntos 3 años atrás*
Did anyone notice that the blogger (who posted the essay, which was written by another guy) is responding to people in the comments section?
This one caught my eye:
"This is why I posted the person's essay. I worry terribly about censorship. Like the ACLU, I believe society is best served when, especially around such important issues as the achievement gap, the full range of ideas, even and maybe especially ideas that make us feel uncomfortable, are allowed to be given voice.
If I were blogging in the 1950s McCarthy era, no doubt I would have been posting leftist essays to counter McCarthy's attempts to censor such thought.
Today, the opposite seems true--conservative ideas have a hard time finding a major public voice. Sure there's Fox News and much talk radio but the media outlets with the largest mindshare, especially among the intellengsia (e.g NPR, NY Times, etc) publish little conservative thought except as a whipping boy or straw man."
He strikes me as a Bill O'Reilly or Glenn Beck sort of "independent".
enlace
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–]JimmyJamesMac 5 puntos 3 años atrás
I wonder how Africa manages to teach so many kids if they are "unteachable"? I am not blaming this dude, but maybe there is a better system.
enlace
[–]nicasucio 33 puntos 3 años atrás
I dont think it has anything to do with being black, but with the african american culture; i grew up in a country where I went to school with black people, and it wasn't until I came to the usa that i learned that blacks were different. For 7 years of my primary school life, we had black kids in class, but we all were the same; if anything, we had nicknames, but the nicknames were based on lack of abilities, or traits like a big nose, but not race. I was in total shock when I came to the USA to say the least...and by the way, my black friends from elemenetary school, were as smart as the rest of us.
When I went to college, I was in the Miami area with a bunch of caribbean blacks, and a couple of them tutored me in physics, and all the ones I knew in my class got A's in their exams.
My point is that i think is a cultural problem in the usa. Have you been to england and talked to the black kids there? Most likely they speak better english than a lot of white kids in the usa.....how is that possible if being black is a problem? :)
On another matter----I also learned that no matter what, being a dumb kid in the usa is the cool thing to do; if you do well, you're considered a nerd; I had no concept of the word nerd until I came to the usa. If you failed a grade from where I came from or did bad on a test, you would be ridiculed and made fun of, so nobody dared to do bad on a test cause then you would be the subject of ridicule. Imagine that happening in a high school in the usa nowadays...
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–]v3rma 7 puntos 3 años atrás*
I lived in several African countries. The two "shining star" African countries are Botswana and South Africa.
As you probably know, maths and science is fairly important in development. The best study to measure mathematical achievement is TIMSS (Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study) – this is organised by the OECD. In the second last (2003) TIMSS South Africa fell back to last place out of 46 countries). In the next survey the government declined to participate (to hide their shame). Here are the last 4 on the list (grade 8 TIMSS 2003):
Botswana 15.1 366
Saudi Arabia 14.1 332
Ghana 15.5 276
South Africa 15.1 264
The format is Country name, avg. age and score. As you can see – the results are bad – even though the average age is well above the average (14.5 years). The average score is 467. There are no other African countries on the list.
South Africa for interest sake will probably de-industrialise within 20 years. Its education system is undergoing a wholesale collapse. Three prominent (black) education experts said that education for everybody in South Africa is now worse than Bantu education ever was in Apartheid.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (2 respuestas)
[–]bsmeteronhigh 10 puntos 3 años atrás
It's not about "Africans". It is about under achievement as an accepted and embraced way of life among a certain population in the United States. In Africa they have a saying, "it takes a village to raise a child". Well, here in the United States, the dad's have gone missing in most of these homes. Prison is seen as a right of passage. Children are raising themselves and being left to their own devices.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (10 respuestas)
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]spikey666 5 puntos 3 años atrás*
Loud and unruly? How unlike children of other skin colors!
enlace
cargar más comentarios (4 respuestas)
[–][deleted] 4 puntos 3 años atrás
What in the fuck? I teach an entirely African American student population in a very poor, extremely low achieving, inner Oakland neighborhood. The asshole who wrote this essay is a huge racist, anyone who agrees with him is a racist, and to be honest trash like this doesn't deserve much more of a rebuttal. Some things are so obviously tainted and reprehensible that it's okay to waive them off without much explanation.
enlace
[–]ironyjoe 34 puntos 3 años atrás
It would be interesting, though, to hear a thorough explanation...
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 58 puntos 3 años atrás*
It would be interesting, though, to hear a thorough explanation...
Fair enough. There are a few issues I want to address, so this may be lengthy, the tl;dr is that I think the author is probably a terrible teacher and somewhat racist.
First, it feels like this author is completely unaware of his own cultural experiences and what has become naturalized to him, and when he encounters different cultures acting out the same routines his lack of self-awareness causes him to perceive them as crass, uncivil, and other undesirable things. In short, he applies a double standard. Examples: his remarks about the "crudest terms imaginable" used in sexist rap, as the students groan "she suck dat aaahhh." This is portrayed as some sort of black phenomenon. Yet it was a band full of white people that wrote "Givin' The Dog A Bone" and gee, if that's not a crude male-dominant sexual metaphor on par with anything he describes, I don't know what is. It's not as though sex is absent from modern music either.
People - particularly teenagers - like the idea of lots of easy sex, of being important, of being wealthy easily. Black, white, hispanic, whatever students express these desires in different ways, but it is often the same essential desires. Now, these are admittedly not what I think kid's highest priorities should be, but they were probably mine when I was younger, and hey, they're still really attractive to me. Some people want to be a rock star living in a hilltop house and drivin' fifteen cars, other people want to be a rap star. Whatever. The assertion that this behavior is particularly endemic or unique to black students is absurd.
It's the same with a lot of his other examples - gee, your students aren't super interested in researching Marcus Garvey, even though they're black? Guess how many white kids I've had not be particularly enthused about researching some dead old white person they've never heard of before? Sometimes, adolescents aren't real into history. Even I wasn't at times in my youth (and I think it's awesome now).
Again, I'm not saying this is good or desirable - part of the teacher's role is to help kids overcome their distaste of these subjects, make them exciting and accessible, and get them to like it. But instead, this dude decides that they don't like it because they're black (because all white students are just the most engaged, studious little devils ever, eh?).
A lot of his stories are interesting and relevant to some extend, but the way he frames them in racial absolutes - 'this is how black people are, this is how they act in groups, this is how lazy they are' - completely miss the reality that this has a lot to do with the way poorly educated students everywhere are.
Second major point - a general critique that thinking in categorical black and white terms, particularly around identity issues, is often a sign of simplistic and biased thinking. He opens by saying "Most whites simply do not know what black people are like in large numbers, and the first encounter can be a shock.".
What the fuck?
No more need be said about that.
Third, the issue of violence. There's some confusion between correlation and causation in his essay (as a teacher, he should know better) - he teaches in a majority black school, sees a lot of blacks fighting, declares "hey, those black people are violent." In reality, extremely poor school settings, particularly ones with poor teacher quality (I do not think this fellow is very good at his job), are prone to violence by all races.
More on his bias in teaching - I think his anecdote about the history of philosophy day is particularly telling. On the one hand, he has a point - people like Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau (or Hume - I forget exactly who he was talking about) - are both important to learn about, and white. But, there are also black people who have had political thoughts, and when the students ask why they aren't represented, "they aren't European" is not a very good answer (unless you're teaching a class on European History/Philosophy - which I gather he was not, since he describes covering other course material at other points in the class). His answer is essentially "I arbitrarily decided we're talking only about European theorists, and they all happen to be white, so coincidentally it's all white people today." I am not saying he shouldn't talk about those people, and maybe it is a little bit of pragmatism-induced-racialist-attitude-acceptance on my part, but if black students want to learn about black theoreticians, why on earth would you not accommodate that request?
In fact, for me that might be a golden opportunity - his kids were very close to asking to hear about some particular philosophers. In a poor, urban school setting, few things scream "learning opportunity" like that. His tactic of shutting them down probably doesn't contribute to their overall academic engagement (which, of course, he later blames on them being black. Gee....)
"Black people" aren't some crazy monolithic category of lazy incompetents. There are lazy black kids, just like there are lazy white kids who want to smoke pot and listen to rock and roll all day. There are promiscuous black people, and there are promiscuous white people too. Black kids were disruptive and dancing during his classes? Shit, when I was going to a rich, majority white private school growing up, some white kid opened the window when the teacher's back was turned and helped six people climb out of class. That probably qualifies as disruption too.
I've had black students in my classes who have come to realize that they can care and learn about history, about philosophical abstractions, about politics, and so on and so forth. This gentleman appears to have decided in advance that it is not possible, and reacts to his students accordingly. Teacher-fail.
Edit I just wanted to acknowledge I feel there are complexities I glossed over and points I didn't make, but even a request for a "thorough" explanation has its limits, and looking at the length of this, I think I hit "thorough" about four paragraphs back.
enlacepadre
[–]bigballin7491 6 puntos 3 años atrás
Wow. Good read. Too bad I had to read through the rest of the comments to find yours.
My view on this:
The current African American culture has been partly shaped by the socioeconomic problems they have faced ever since slavery.
Why do blacks act differently from white students, the author asks. Is it just because their black? I think a better question for the author would be, why do white students act differently then black students?
But what the hell do I know?
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]elizinthemorning 12 puntos 3 años atrás
Wow. Thank you. The original article made me so depressed. You are a voice of sanity.
enlacepadre
[–]ThePain 8 puntos 3 años atrás*
Coming from a family of teachers (Mother, father, Grandmother, and my brother) all of their experiences coincide with exactly what the article says. It's an issue with black culture that causes the problems. Your situations seems to be that of an extreme exception to the rule.
The problem is not with blacks, it's with black culture. I was told quite clearly many times that getting good grades, studying, waiting your turn, not shouting and speaking with correct grammar was "acting white" and those I have spoke with across the country have confirmed that "Acting white" was a phrase not used just in my home town.
If it's racist to hate a culture but not the people well then fuck, everyone on Reddit is a giant racist because I'm 100% sure I can find a culture which you adamantly despise.
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 5 puntos 3 años atrás
I don't think that cultural criticism is the same as racism; I think that would be silly to say. However, the author I am responding to makes remarks such as "One point on which all blacks agree," "Black students are," and so on. He's talking very clearly in categorical racial terms. That is the type of thing that lends itself to racism.
I am not trying to say that there is not a serious problem in education (actually, lots of serious problems) in this country.
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 5 puntos 3 años atrás
If the kids want to read something non-European, I recommend the writings of Frederick Douglass.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–]ironyjoe 6 puntos 3 años atrás
Thanks. I'll pore over this when I get the chance :)
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (16 respuestas)
[–][deleted] 9 puntos 3 años atrás
Where does he express an inherent belief in the superiority of his own race over all others? I must have missed that part.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (4 respuestas)
[–]qpwoeir 9 puntos 3 años atrás
I taught high school for a year in a predominantly black and hispanic rural school in Florida. My only comment about this article is that I understand this guy's frustration, but he sounds somewhat racist with his irate generalizations and statements like "The real victims are the unfortunate whites caught in this." I know what it's like, and I sympathize, but rhetoric like this guys spews doesn't make anything better.
enlacepadre
[–]voidwarranty 44 puntos 3 años atrás
I went to schools in New York City that were full of blacks. The article was an excellent description of the students at the schools I attended. Whites and Asians were the minorities and we suffered because the teachers were too busy having to deal with exactly the type of pathetic students described by that writer. There were some (few) blacks who actually tried and succeeded, but the vast majority of them were exactly as described.
The problem is that their culture doesn't promote education and worth-ethic and most of their parents are as trashy and ghetto as the children. That's the bottom line.
To call the essay racist just because it doesn't meet your overly liberal race-neutral outlook is to be even more biased than the original author.
enlacepadre
[–]knickfan5745 11 puntos 3 años atrás
most of their parents are as trashy and ghetto as the children.
Spot on. I obviously cannot say this is true for all black people; but in the Newark, NJ area I have found this to be very true. The parents have the exact same mindset as the kids.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[–][deleted] 5 puntos 3 años atrás
See my comment further below for a more in-depth explanation of why I call him a racist. I obviously have a lot of liberal components to my ideology, but I think I have a good counter-argument to this author's regardless.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (9 respuestas)
[–]seanm27 9 puntos 3 años atrás
I think you mean racis'
enlacepadre
[–][eliminado] 3 años atrás
[deleted]
enlacepadre
[–][deleted] 10 puntos 3 años atrás*
Inner-city Oakland can be terrible in its own ways, but this is a very fair comment. I spent a weekend in Atlanta and two in Montgomery, and that is the extent of my life exposure to the South. I'm not very qualified to talk about Southern culture.
enlacepadre
[–]ironyjoe 10 puntos 3 años atrás
The South is a horrible, horrible place that you simply can't imagine unless you've lived there.
I lived in the South and loved it.
To each his own...
enlacepadre
[–]JudgeHolden 2 puntos 3 años atrás
The San Francisco Bay Area's black population comes almost exclusively from the south, primarily Louisiana, but also a few other states I suspect. Point is, culturally, Bay Area blacks are still very similar to their southern counterparts.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (4 respuestas)
cargar más comentarios (27 respuestas)
[–]DiarrheaMonkey 2 puntos 3 años atrás
This is the most pathetically stupid and racist thing I've ever seen on the front page, or indeed anywhere except on the new list before they get downmodded into oblivion. How the hell is making a string of negative generalizations about a race of people not racist?
enlace
cargar más comentarios (4 respuestas)
[–]Fsaxton 3 puntos 3 años atrás
Grow up in Oakland and tell me this article isn't the truth!
enlace
[–]DiarrheaMonkey 2 puntos 3 años atrás*
Done. See I'm a skinny white boy who has had more trouble with black people than all other races put together. By trouble I mean fights, mugging etc.
The reason I can freely say that this article is not true is that it generalizes these negative traits to all blacks and never suggests or considers any alternative factors.
enlacepadre
cargar más comentarios (1 respuesta)
[+][deleted] puntuación demasiado baja  (43 hijos)
cargar más comentarios (76 respuestas)
acerca de
blog
acerca de
team
código fuente
publicidad
ayuda
ayuda
FAQ
reddiquette
subreddits
contacto
herramientas
mobile
extensión de firefox
extensión chrome
botones
widget
<3
reddit gold
tienda
redditgifts
reddit.tv
radio reddit

El uso de este sitio implica la aceptación del acuerdo de usuario y de la política de privacidad. © 2012 reddit inc. Todos los derechos reservados.
REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc.
π


Wiki Headlines
27th Jun: The Badge Shop is out of beta and up and running in the forum. Come check it out and support TV Tropes.


On-Topic Conversations: Bullying
wiki edits
liveblogs
reviews
watchlist
YKTTW
all forums
wiki search
         search forum titles

google site search

Total posts: 517
 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20 21
On-Topic Conversations
Bullying
 501 The Handle, Sat, 7th Jul '12 9:06:27 PM
The Pen Is Mightier Said people can go eat my jizz. That's an untenable position to have.
Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 502 Barkey, Sat, 7th Jul '12 11:03:32 PM from Bunker 051
War Profiteer ^
That's real mature. Pussy isn't acceptable, but "They can eat my jizz" is ok.
Ima star 69 you so we can # # # all night long baby!
 503 Drunk Girlfriend, Sat, 7th Jul '12 11:58:14 PM from Castle Geekhaven
@Handle: I don't know about that. The girls in my high school got into way more fights than the guys, and they were always done with intent to maim (see, the times in which a girl ran another girl's face against a stucco wall like it was a cheese grater).
The guys usually did a lot of posturing, but backed down before it came to blows. The girls would fight over the drop of a hat and wouldn't quit.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
 504 The Handle, Sun, 8th Jul '12 12:12:42 PM
The Pen Is Mightier Holy shit, that's so different from my experience. Did they think they were in a Hellsing episode or something? I mean, disfigurement? For a girl? That is so mean...
^^You're right, it was a stupid figure of speech, and I was wrong for using it. What I meant to say was "they are wrong and they should feel wrong, and if I meet them I shall oppose them in the way I find most effective: scorn them if they are thin-skinned, persuade them if they are reasonable, intimidate them if they are cowardly, and that this opinion is absurd and should die in an oubliette and never be brought up again". Next time I won't be so lazy or crude. Let's all improve our language together.
edited 8th Jul '12 12:13:26 PM by TheHandle

Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 505 Drunk Girlfriend, Sun, 8th Jul '12 1:39:17 PM from Castle Geekhaven
 That's just the way it is, in my experience. Then again, low-income areas tend to have a completely different culture than middle class and wealthy areas, so it was considered perfectly acceptable for women to fight.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
 506 The Handle, Sun, 8th Jul '12 1:47:30 PM
The Pen Is Mightier
low-income areas tend to have a completely different culture than middle class and wealthy areas
My fair lady, are you making a mockery of nationalism?
Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 507 0dd1, Sun, 8th Jul '12 2:19:59 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that I dunno, I went to a high school with mostly upper class wealthy kids and I saw far more physical fighting by girls than anything. I don't even ever recall the guys ever getting violent with each other.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
 508 Drunk Scriblerian, Sun, 8th Jul '12 10:46:28 PM from Castle Geekhaven
Chairman of the Bored thread return
What I was saying a few pages back...I think children ought to have access to the same set of tools as an adult in the courtroom, if we're going to expect them to conform to a similar set of rules. Adults seem to like holding children accountable for their behavior as if they were grown *.
So, let's give kids the same rights. Let them claim "self-defense" as an adult can when they are assaulted. Most people here, I think, can remember a time when they were legitimately dealt harm for no reason.
"If I don't get into a pissing match with someone occasionally, it's a sign I don't respect them. " -Exelixi
 509 Nicknacks, Mon, 9th Jul '12 12:46:57 AM from Actually Australia
Apathy is... eh Do they not have those rights?
And, regardless, how are school rules implemented anyway? From what I gather, there are the set of laws that we all live by, but then a second set of laws on top of those which are implemented by the school on what's basically a contractual basis, the exact specifics of which vary from school to school. All problems are dealt with on site first, and then are pushed higher up the chain by the school/parents/other institutions if it's felt they need to be.
That said, it's unclear to me just how much power if held by the school, and how easily the judgements of individual teachers can be overruled by legal institutions. I'm uncertain as to what rights, exactly, children can or already do possess, and how that informs their own agency in combating physical threats or intimidation.
edited 9th Jul '12 12:57:15 AM by Nicknacks

Join the Doctor Who Rewatch Thread! for World War Three!
 510 De Marquis, Mon, 9th Jul '12 6:43:44 PM from Hell, USA
The concept of "in loco parentis" covers the legal authority of schools over their students. Here is an article that covers some of the basics.
Another aspect of all this is cyberbulling. In a situation where there is no opportunity for physical abuse, yet children have been known to commit suicide over comments posted about them online, and in which the limits of free speech for minors is still pretty murky, what's the best approach?
And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.
 511 Barkey, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:17:07 PM from Bunker 051
War Profiteer Unfriending that person on facebook, because they obviously aren't your friend?
Ima star 69 you so we can # # # all night long baby!
 512 0dd1, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:34:39 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that There are still other ways to do that other than Facebook harassment, though. If someone is truly determined to make another person miserable, they'll find a way. Por ejemplo.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
 513 Barkey, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:38:11 PM from Bunker 051
War Profiteer Just goes to show that parents need to take more time to pay attention to what their kids do on the internet.
Ima star 69 you so we can # # # all night long baby!
 514 0dd1, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:52:58 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that Even then, though, you can't just completely nanny their internet activity, no matter how much you try, and in a situation like this, no amount of monitoring could have stopped it.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
 515 Ira The Squire, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:59:09 PM from No idea. Measuring speed
Dalek (Earth Alliance) Well, for situations like this simple and casual monitoring would probably pick it up.
The Cybermen will remove gender, and class, and color, and creed.
 516 The Handle, Tue, 10th Jul '12 12:23:43 AM
The Pen Is Mightier How do you mean?
HOLY SHIT man, I've just read this. This calls for blood. I mean, call it Values Dissonance, but, in my home country, tribunals should be these people's least worry. That's the sort of situation where getting a life sentence, or even a death sentence, would be a perfectly acceptable tradeoff.
edited 10th Jul '12 12:27:06 AM by TheHandle

Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 517 0dd1, Tue, 10th Jul '12 12:37:18 AM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that It's especially despicable considering that it was done by a parent who should know better. But, then, maybe I'm giving parents in general too much credit.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
On-Topic conversation list

add a post
Total posts: 517
 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20

21

mailbox edit your forum profile  thread watchlist add this thread to your watchlist

mark thread unread      post activity

This wiki is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License.
Privacy Policy
contact us


Wiki Headlines
27th Jun: The Badge Shop is out of beta and up and running in the forum. Come check it out and support TV Tropes.


On-Topic Conversations: Bullying
wiki edits
liveblogs
reviews
watchlist
YKTTW
all forums
wiki search
         search forum titles

google site search

Total posts: 517
 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20 21
On-Topic Conversations
Bullying
 501 The Handle, Sat, 7th Jul '12 9:06:27 PM
The Pen Is Mightier Said people can go eat my jizz. That's an untenable position to have.
Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 502 Barkey, Sat, 7th Jul '12 11:03:32 PM from Bunker 051
War Profiteer ^
That's real mature. Pussy isn't acceptable, but "They can eat my jizz" is ok.
Ima star 69 you so we can # # # all night long baby!
 503 Drunk Girlfriend, Sat, 7th Jul '12 11:58:14 PM from Castle Geekhaven
@Handle: I don't know about that. The girls in my high school got into way more fights than the guys, and they were always done with intent to maim (see, the times in which a girl ran another girl's face against a stucco wall like it was a cheese grater).
The guys usually did a lot of posturing, but backed down before it came to blows. The girls would fight over the drop of a hat and wouldn't quit.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
 504 The Handle, Sun, 8th Jul '12 12:12:42 PM
The Pen Is Mightier Holy shit, that's so different from my experience. Did they think they were in a Hellsing episode or something? I mean, disfigurement? For a girl? That is so mean...
^^You're right, it was a stupid figure of speech, and I was wrong for using it. What I meant to say was "they are wrong and they should feel wrong, and if I meet them I shall oppose them in the way I find most effective: scorn them if they are thin-skinned, persuade them if they are reasonable, intimidate them if they are cowardly, and that this opinion is absurd and should die in an oubliette and never be brought up again". Next time I won't be so lazy or crude. Let's all improve our language together.
edited 8th Jul '12 12:13:26 PM by TheHandle

Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 505 Drunk Girlfriend, Sun, 8th Jul '12 1:39:17 PM from Castle Geekhaven
 That's just the way it is, in my experience. Then again, low-income areas tend to have a completely different culture than middle class and wealthy areas, so it was considered perfectly acceptable for women to fight.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
 506 The Handle, Sun, 8th Jul '12 1:47:30 PM
The Pen Is Mightier
low-income areas tend to have a completely different culture than middle class and wealthy areas
My fair lady, are you making a mockery of nationalism?
Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 507 0dd1, Sun, 8th Jul '12 2:19:59 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that I dunno, I went to a high school with mostly upper class wealthy kids and I saw far more physical fighting by girls than anything. I don't even ever recall the guys ever getting violent with each other.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
 508 Drunk Scriblerian, Sun, 8th Jul '12 10:46:28 PM from Castle Geekhaven
Chairman of the Bored thread return
What I was saying a few pages back...I think children ought to have access to the same set of tools as an adult in the courtroom, if we're going to expect them to conform to a similar set of rules. Adults seem to like holding children accountable for their behavior as if they were grown *.
So, let's give kids the same rights. Let them claim "self-defense" as an adult can when they are assaulted. Most people here, I think, can remember a time when they were legitimately dealt harm for no reason.
"If I don't get into a pissing match with someone occasionally, it's a sign I don't respect them. " -Exelixi
 509 Nicknacks, Mon, 9th Jul '12 12:46:57 AM from Actually Australia
Apathy is... eh Do they not have those rights?
And, regardless, how are school rules implemented anyway? From what I gather, there are the set of laws that we all live by, but then a second set of laws on top of those which are implemented by the school on what's basically a contractual basis, the exact specifics of which vary from school to school. All problems are dealt with on site first, and then are pushed higher up the chain by the school/parents/other institutions if it's felt they need to be.
That said, it's unclear to me just how much power if held by the school, and how easily the judgements of individual teachers can be overruled by legal institutions. I'm uncertain as to what rights, exactly, children can or already do possess, and how that informs their own agency in combating physical threats or intimidation.
edited 9th Jul '12 12:57:15 AM by Nicknacks

Join the Doctor Who Rewatch Thread! for World War Three!
 510 De Marquis, Mon, 9th Jul '12 6:43:44 PM from Hell, USA
The concept of "in loco parentis" covers the legal authority of schools over their students. Here is an article that covers some of the basics.
Another aspect of all this is cyberbulling. In a situation where there is no opportunity for physical abuse, yet children have been known to commit suicide over comments posted about them online, and in which the limits of free speech for minors is still pretty murky, what's the best approach?
And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.
 511 Barkey, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:17:07 PM from Bunker 051
War Profiteer Unfriending that person on facebook, because they obviously aren't your friend?
Ima star 69 you so we can # # # all night long baby!
 512 0dd1, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:34:39 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that There are still other ways to do that other than Facebook harassment, though. If someone is truly determined to make another person miserable, they'll find a way. Por ejemplo.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
 513 Barkey, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:38:11 PM from Bunker 051
War Profiteer Just goes to show that parents need to take more time to pay attention to what their kids do on the internet.
Ima star 69 you so we can # # # all night long baby!
 514 0dd1, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:52:58 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that Even then, though, you can't just completely nanny their internet activity, no matter how much you try, and in a situation like this, no amount of monitoring could have stopped it.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
 515 Ira The Squire, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:59:09 PM from No idea. Measuring speed
Dalek (Earth Alliance) Well, for situations like this simple and casual monitoring would probably pick it up.
The Cybermen will remove gender, and class, and color, and creed.
 516 The Handle, Tue, 10th Jul '12 12:23:43 AM
The Pen Is Mightier How do you mean?
HOLY SHIT man, I've just read this. This calls for blood. I mean, call it Values Dissonance, but, in my home country, tribunals should be these people's least worry. That's the sort of situation where getting a life sentence, or even a death sentence, would be a perfectly acceptable tradeoff.
edited 10th Jul '12 12:27:06 AM by TheHandle

Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 517 0dd1, Tue, 10th Jul '12 12:37:18 AM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that It's especially despicable considering that it was done by a parent who should know better. But, then, maybe I'm giving parents in general too much credit.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
On-Topic conversation list

add a post
Total posts: 517
 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20

21

mailbox edit your forum profile  thread watchlist add this thread to your watchlist

mark thread unread      post activity

This wiki is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License.
Privacy Policy
contact us


Wiki Headlines
27th Jun: The Badge Shop is out of beta and up and running in the forum. Come check it out and support TV Tropes.


On-Topic Conversations: Bullying
wiki edits
liveblogs
reviews
watchlist
YKTTW
all forums
wiki search
         search forum titles

google site search

Total posts: 517
 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20 21
On-Topic Conversations
Bullying
 501 The Handle, Sat, 7th Jul '12 9:06:27 PM
The Pen Is Mightier Said people can go eat my jizz. That's an untenable position to have.
Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 502 Barkey, Sat, 7th Jul '12 11:03:32 PM from Bunker 051
War Profiteer ^
That's real mature. Pussy isn't acceptable, but "They can eat my jizz" is ok.
Ima star 69 you so we can # # # all night long baby!
 503 Drunk Girlfriend, Sat, 7th Jul '12 11:58:14 PM from Castle Geekhaven
@Handle: I don't know about that. The girls in my high school got into way more fights than the guys, and they were always done with intent to maim (see, the times in which a girl ran another girl's face against a stucco wall like it was a cheese grater).
The guys usually did a lot of posturing, but backed down before it came to blows. The girls would fight over the drop of a hat and wouldn't quit.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
 504 The Handle, Sun, 8th Jul '12 12:12:42 PM
The Pen Is Mightier Holy shit, that's so different from my experience. Did they think they were in a Hellsing episode or something? I mean, disfigurement? For a girl? That is so mean...
^^You're right, it was a stupid figure of speech, and I was wrong for using it. What I meant to say was "they are wrong and they should feel wrong, and if I meet them I shall oppose them in the way I find most effective: scorn them if they are thin-skinned, persuade them if they are reasonable, intimidate them if they are cowardly, and that this opinion is absurd and should die in an oubliette and never be brought up again". Next time I won't be so lazy or crude. Let's all improve our language together.
edited 8th Jul '12 12:13:26 PM by TheHandle

Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 505 Drunk Girlfriend, Sun, 8th Jul '12 1:39:17 PM from Castle Geekhaven
 That's just the way it is, in my experience. Then again, low-income areas tend to have a completely different culture than middle class and wealthy areas, so it was considered perfectly acceptable for women to fight.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
 506 The Handle, Sun, 8th Jul '12 1:47:30 PM
The Pen Is Mightier
low-income areas tend to have a completely different culture than middle class and wealthy areas
My fair lady, are you making a mockery of nationalism?
Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 507 0dd1, Sun, 8th Jul '12 2:19:59 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that I dunno, I went to a high school with mostly upper class wealthy kids and I saw far more physical fighting by girls than anything. I don't even ever recall the guys ever getting violent with each other.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
 508 Drunk Scriblerian, Sun, 8th Jul '12 10:46:28 PM from Castle Geekhaven
Chairman of the Bored thread return
What I was saying a few pages back...I think children ought to have access to the same set of tools as an adult in the courtroom, if we're going to expect them to conform to a similar set of rules. Adults seem to like holding children accountable for their behavior as if they were grown *.
So, let's give kids the same rights. Let them claim "self-defense" as an adult can when they are assaulted. Most people here, I think, can remember a time when they were legitimately dealt harm for no reason.
"If I don't get into a pissing match with someone occasionally, it's a sign I don't respect them. " -Exelixi
 509 Nicknacks, Mon, 9th Jul '12 12:46:57 AM from Actually Australia
Apathy is... eh Do they not have those rights?
And, regardless, how are school rules implemented anyway? From what I gather, there are the set of laws that we all live by, but then a second set of laws on top of those which are implemented by the school on what's basically a contractual basis, the exact specifics of which vary from school to school. All problems are dealt with on site first, and then are pushed higher up the chain by the school/parents/other institutions if it's felt they need to be.
That said, it's unclear to me just how much power if held by the school, and how easily the judgements of individual teachers can be overruled by legal institutions. I'm uncertain as to what rights, exactly, children can or already do possess, and how that informs their own agency in combating physical threats or intimidation.
edited 9th Jul '12 12:57:15 AM by Nicknacks

Join the Doctor Who Rewatch Thread! for World War Three!
 510 De Marquis, Mon, 9th Jul '12 6:43:44 PM from Hell, USA
The concept of "in loco parentis" covers the legal authority of schools over their students. Here is an article that covers some of the basics.
Another aspect of all this is cyberbulling. In a situation where there is no opportunity for physical abuse, yet children have been known to commit suicide over comments posted about them online, and in which the limits of free speech for minors is still pretty murky, what's the best approach?
And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.
 511 Barkey, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:17:07 PM from Bunker 051
War Profiteer Unfriending that person on facebook, because they obviously aren't your friend?
Ima star 69 you so we can # # # all night long baby!
 512 0dd1, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:34:39 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that There are still other ways to do that other than Facebook harassment, though. If someone is truly determined to make another person miserable, they'll find a way. Por ejemplo.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
 513 Barkey, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:38:11 PM from Bunker 051
War Profiteer Just goes to show that parents need to take more time to pay attention to what their kids do on the internet.
Ima star 69 you so we can # # # all night long baby!
 514 0dd1, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:52:58 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that Even then, though, you can't just completely nanny their internet activity, no matter how much you try, and in a situation like this, no amount of monitoring could have stopped it.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
 515 Ira The Squire, Mon, 9th Jul '12 8:59:09 PM from No idea. Measuring speed
Dalek (Earth Alliance) Well, for situations like this simple and casual monitoring would probably pick it up.
The Cybermen will remove gender, and class, and color, and creed.
 516 The Handle, Tue, 10th Jul '12 12:23:43 AM
The Pen Is Mightier How do you mean?
HOLY SHIT man, I've just read this. This calls for blood. I mean, call it Values Dissonance, but, in my home country, tribunals should be these people's least worry. That's the sort of situation where getting a life sentence, or even a death sentence, would be a perfectly acceptable tradeoff.
edited 10th Jul '12 12:27:06 AM by TheHandle

Macbeth cant handle the-TOK◊
 517 0dd1, Tue, 10th Jul '12 12:37:18 AM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that It's especially despicable considering that it was done by a parent who should know better. But, then, maybe I'm giving parents in general too much credit.
Insert witty and clever quip here.
My page, as the database hates my handle (which is spelled with a zero)
On-Topic conversation list

add a post
Total posts: 517
 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20

21

mailbox edit your forum profile  thread watchlist add this thread to your watchlist

mark thread unread      post activity

This wiki is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License.
Privacy Policy
contact us


@Handle: I don't know about that. The girls in my high school got into way more fights than the guys, and they were always done with intent to maim (see, the times in which a girl ran another girl's face against a stucco wall like it was a cheese grater).
The guys usually did a lot of posturing, but backed down before it came to blows. The girls would fight over the drop of a hat and wouldn't quit.


Holy shit, that's so different from my experience. Did they think they were in a Hellsing episode or something? I mean, disfigurement? For a girl? That is so mean...
^^You're right, it was a stupid figure of speech, and I was wrong for using it. What I meant to say was "they are wrong and they should feel wrong, and if I meet them I shall oppose them in the way I find most effective: scorn them if the