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  1. Elspeth - Today at 2:53 AM
  2. anyway(edited)
  3. dota is impossibly cool conceptually but if i ever get into it it will probably be much further down the line because being cool conceptually isn't the same thing as being enjoyable to play
  4. and while i understand that turn rates and all the other things that make dota feel clunky serve a real purpose, they do make it feel clunky, and it has a lot of design decisions that are like
  5. really cool but make its moment-to-moment gameplay a lot less satisfying at least to me(edited)
  6. oh
  7. btw
  8. video i wanna hear your thoughts on
  9. Nobody Important - Today at 2:55 AM
  10. I personally disagree, but there's no accounting for taste.
  11. Elspeth - Today at 2:55 AM
  12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CumLJ1Iy8_A
  13. YouTube
  14. G|League
  15. Riot Gypsylord's Design Philosophy on Three-Hit Passives and If Th...
  16.  
  17. Nobody Important - Today at 2:55 AM
  18. There's a reason melee carries will never exist in League.
  19. Elspeth - Today at 2:55 AM
  20. i mean yeah but like
  21. Nobody Important - Today at 2:55 AM
  22. That reason is turn rate.
  23. Elspeth - Today at 2:55 AM
  24. personally for me
  25. yeah i know that but personally for me
  26. the existence of melee carries doesn't outweigh the clunkiness that turn rates bring to moment to moment gameplay
  27. also technically melee carries exist in league(edited)
  28. just not as bot lane adcs
  29. camille, fiora, gangplank, etc
  30. Nobody Important - Today at 2:56 AM
  31. How many bot laner right click carries do you see as melee in league?
  32. What's that?
  33. Zero?
  34. Elspeth - Today at 2:56 AM
  35. i mean you don't have to be bot lane to be a carry
  36. is what i'm saying
  37. Nobody Important - Today at 2:56 AM
  38. Yes, if your opponent folds in a millisecond...
  39. It's certainly no Spectre, Faceless Void, Antimage, or Phantom Assassin.
  40. Elspeth - Today at 2:56 AM
  41. anyway nob watch that video lmk what you think i find it really interesting
  42. i don't necessarily entirely agree with him but i find his arguments really cool to think about
  43. Nobody Important - Today at 2:58 AM
  44. He's justifying poor game design with an 'oh but this feels cool' argument.
  45. Elspeth - Today at 2:58 AM
  46. i mean
  47. Nobody Important - Today at 2:58 AM
  48. As opposed to just...
  49. giving special animations to attacks.
  50. Elspeth - Today at 2:58 AM
  51. making the player feel cool is like
  52. Nobody Important - Today at 2:58 AM
  53. It's Not That Hard.
  54. Elspeth - Today at 2:58 AM
  55. one of the end goals of game design
  56. Nobody Important - Today at 2:59 AM
  57. Skillshot nuke with a decaying slow, four to three hit passive, AoE CC ultimate with some !!wacky!! condition, and a dash.
  58. There, I just designed a character for League.
  59. Nobody Important - Today at 3:00 AM
  60. >%max health damage
  61. Literally one of the worst mechanics designed.
  62. Create a character or two designed around it, but don't give it to fucking everyone.
  63. >create more interest in melee combat, which is something we've historically had trouble doing
  64. >>>>>>>>>
  65. T U R N R A T E S
  66. Legitimately, as long as you have the ability to slow people on right clicks and no turn rates, melee combat will remain a joke.
  67. Something bronze-leaguers do.
  68. The man has interesting ideas but I would never want him in charge of a game I'm playing.
  69. Elspeth - Today at 3:03 AM
  70. >melee combat will remain a joke
  71. >camille, fiora, gangplank, jax, katarina, kassadin, etc
  72.  
  73. ???
  74. Nobody Important - Today at 3:03 AM
  75. Katarina, Jax, Kassadin all have dashes or teleports on very short cooldowns to make up for being able to be easily kited.
  76. Gangplank has a ranged attack on a 3 second cooldown.
  77. Elspeth - Today at 3:04 AM
  78. camille doesn't and she's the most meta of all of those
  79. Nobody Important - Today at 3:04 AM
  80. Fiora has a dash on a very short cooldown.
  81. Camille has 3 mobility abilities.
  82. Elspeth - Today at 3:05 AM
  83. so why does the game need melee carries with no mobility in order to be good
  84. ??
  85. Nobody Important - Today at 3:05 AM
  86. Or, you could implement turn rates, and allow characters without those who are melee to be relevant.
  87. Elspeth - Today at 3:05 AM
  88. except turn rates make for inherently clunky moment to moment gameplay
  89. Nobody Important - Today at 3:05 AM
  90. If you cannot create a character without a specific kind of ability who isn't a joke..
  91. Well, that implies rather poor balancing.
  92. But they don't call League Flash of Legends for nothing.
  93. Elspeth - Today at 3:05 AM
  94. >if you cannot create a character without a specific kind of ability who isn't a joke
  95. >ability-based carries in dota 2
  96. :thinking:
  97. "but there are two of them!" who have specific abilities etc
  98. Nobody Important - Today at 3:07 AM
  99. You mean: Zeus, Obsidian Destroyer, Queen of Pain, Storm Spirit, Death Prophet, Necrophos, Tiny, Batrider, Leshrac, Invoker, Venomancer, Timbersaw, Visage, Puck?
  100. Don't front with me here, Emma.
  101. You may not like turn rates, but they have a very specific purpose and League had to contort their system to fucking make melee ''''''carries''''' fit.
  102. Read: Position 3, at best, characters.
  103. Elspeth - Today at 3:08 AM
  104. and you may not like turn rates, but they have a very specific purpose and dota 2 has to deal with clunky combat to make melee carries be a thing
  105. and i would argue
  106. that the existence of melee carries does not add enough to make up for that
  107. Nobody Important - Today at 3:09 AM
  108. >clunky combat
  109. Elspeth - Today at 3:09 AM
  110. why are you acting like this is some immutable design decision that god icefrog made that solved mobas forever
  111. Nobody Important - Today at 3:09 AM
  112. From the woman who has played two games and gave up because not being able to kite ad infinitum...
  113. Elspeth - Today at 3:09 AM
  114. there is a reason dota 2 has turn rates and there is a reason league doesn't
  115. Nobody Important - Today at 3:09 AM
  116. And like shitty pathing, they could have removed it when they transfered over from WC3.
  117. It adds to the game.
  118. >there is a reason dota 2 has turn rates and there is a reason league doesn't
  119. Pandering to twelve year olds.
  120. Like the camera controls. Like the unit groups. Like the interface. Like the tree mechanics.
  121. Unit turn rate was kept because it improves the game over-all.
  122. Fuck, Batrider wouldn't exist without turn rate.
  123. His entire design is built around it, much like Night Stalker is built around the day/night cycle.
  124. But I don't have the time or energy to argue about this.
  125. Go ahead and latch onto League, ignore the things they discarded in favor of pretty girls.
  126. I've tried my best to share why I like Dota more with you, but I see I'm wasting my breath.
  127. Elspeth - Today at 3:12 AM
  128. yknow what
  129. fuck you
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