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- Elspeth - Today at 2:53 AM
- anyway(edited)
- dota is impossibly cool conceptually but if i ever get into it it will probably be much further down the line because being cool conceptually isn't the same thing as being enjoyable to play
- and while i understand that turn rates and all the other things that make dota feel clunky serve a real purpose, they do make it feel clunky, and it has a lot of design decisions that are like
- really cool but make its moment-to-moment gameplay a lot less satisfying at least to me(edited)
- oh
- btw
- video i wanna hear your thoughts on
- Nobody Important - Today at 2:55 AM
- I personally disagree, but there's no accounting for taste.
- Elspeth - Today at 2:55 AM
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CumLJ1Iy8_A
- YouTube
- G|League
- Riot Gypsylord's Design Philosophy on Three-Hit Passives and If Th...
- Nobody Important - Today at 2:55 AM
- There's a reason melee carries will never exist in League.
- Elspeth - Today at 2:55 AM
- i mean yeah but like
- Nobody Important - Today at 2:55 AM
- That reason is turn rate.
- Elspeth - Today at 2:55 AM
- personally for me
- yeah i know that but personally for me
- the existence of melee carries doesn't outweigh the clunkiness that turn rates bring to moment to moment gameplay
- also technically melee carries exist in league(edited)
- just not as bot lane adcs
- camille, fiora, gangplank, etc
- Nobody Important - Today at 2:56 AM
- How many bot laner right click carries do you see as melee in league?
- What's that?
- Zero?
- Elspeth - Today at 2:56 AM
- i mean you don't have to be bot lane to be a carry
- is what i'm saying
- Nobody Important - Today at 2:56 AM
- Yes, if your opponent folds in a millisecond...
- It's certainly no Spectre, Faceless Void, Antimage, or Phantom Assassin.
- Elspeth - Today at 2:56 AM
- anyway nob watch that video lmk what you think i find it really interesting
- i don't necessarily entirely agree with him but i find his arguments really cool to think about
- Nobody Important - Today at 2:58 AM
- He's justifying poor game design with an 'oh but this feels cool' argument.
- Elspeth - Today at 2:58 AM
- i mean
- Nobody Important - Today at 2:58 AM
- As opposed to just...
- giving special animations to attacks.
- Elspeth - Today at 2:58 AM
- making the player feel cool is like
- Nobody Important - Today at 2:58 AM
- It's Not That Hard.
- Elspeth - Today at 2:58 AM
- one of the end goals of game design
- Nobody Important - Today at 2:59 AM
- Skillshot nuke with a decaying slow, four to three hit passive, AoE CC ultimate with some !!wacky!! condition, and a dash.
- There, I just designed a character for League.
- Nobody Important - Today at 3:00 AM
- >%max health damage
- Literally one of the worst mechanics designed.
- Create a character or two designed around it, but don't give it to fucking everyone.
- >create more interest in melee combat, which is something we've historically had trouble doing
- >>>>>>>>>
- T U R N R A T E S
- Legitimately, as long as you have the ability to slow people on right clicks and no turn rates, melee combat will remain a joke.
- Something bronze-leaguers do.
- The man has interesting ideas but I would never want him in charge of a game I'm playing.
- Elspeth - Today at 3:03 AM
- >melee combat will remain a joke
- >camille, fiora, gangplank, jax, katarina, kassadin, etc
- ???
- Nobody Important - Today at 3:03 AM
- Katarina, Jax, Kassadin all have dashes or teleports on very short cooldowns to make up for being able to be easily kited.
- Gangplank has a ranged attack on a 3 second cooldown.
- Elspeth - Today at 3:04 AM
- camille doesn't and she's the most meta of all of those
- Nobody Important - Today at 3:04 AM
- Fiora has a dash on a very short cooldown.
- Camille has 3 mobility abilities.
- Elspeth - Today at 3:05 AM
- so why does the game need melee carries with no mobility in order to be good
- ??
- Nobody Important - Today at 3:05 AM
- Or, you could implement turn rates, and allow characters without those who are melee to be relevant.
- Elspeth - Today at 3:05 AM
- except turn rates make for inherently clunky moment to moment gameplay
- Nobody Important - Today at 3:05 AM
- If you cannot create a character without a specific kind of ability who isn't a joke..
- Well, that implies rather poor balancing.
- But they don't call League Flash of Legends for nothing.
- Elspeth - Today at 3:05 AM
- >if you cannot create a character without a specific kind of ability who isn't a joke
- >ability-based carries in dota 2
- :thinking:
- "but there are two of them!" who have specific abilities etc
- Nobody Important - Today at 3:07 AM
- You mean: Zeus, Obsidian Destroyer, Queen of Pain, Storm Spirit, Death Prophet, Necrophos, Tiny, Batrider, Leshrac, Invoker, Venomancer, Timbersaw, Visage, Puck?
- Don't front with me here, Emma.
- You may not like turn rates, but they have a very specific purpose and League had to contort their system to fucking make melee ''''''carries''''' fit.
- Read: Position 3, at best, characters.
- Elspeth - Today at 3:08 AM
- and you may not like turn rates, but they have a very specific purpose and dota 2 has to deal with clunky combat to make melee carries be a thing
- and i would argue
- that the existence of melee carries does not add enough to make up for that
- Nobody Important - Today at 3:09 AM
- >clunky combat
- Elspeth - Today at 3:09 AM
- why are you acting like this is some immutable design decision that god icefrog made that solved mobas forever
- Nobody Important - Today at 3:09 AM
- From the woman who has played two games and gave up because not being able to kite ad infinitum...
- Elspeth - Today at 3:09 AM
- there is a reason dota 2 has turn rates and there is a reason league doesn't
- Nobody Important - Today at 3:09 AM
- And like shitty pathing, they could have removed it when they transfered over from WC3.
- It adds to the game.
- >there is a reason dota 2 has turn rates and there is a reason league doesn't
- Pandering to twelve year olds.
- Like the camera controls. Like the unit groups. Like the interface. Like the tree mechanics.
- Unit turn rate was kept because it improves the game over-all.
- Fuck, Batrider wouldn't exist without turn rate.
- His entire design is built around it, much like Night Stalker is built around the day/night cycle.
- But I don't have the time or energy to argue about this.
- Go ahead and latch onto League, ignore the things they discarded in favor of pretty girls.
- I've tried my best to share why I like Dota more with you, but I see I'm wasting my breath.
- Elspeth - Today at 3:12 AM
- yknow what
- fuck you
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