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  1.  
  2. Session Start: Mon Mar 18 22:55:49 2013
  3. Session Ident: GreenWolf_Phone
  4. [22:55] Session Ident: GreenWolf_Phone (EsperNet, Slowpoke) (~GreenWolf@66-87-68-26.pools.spcsdns.net)
  5. [22:55] <GreenWolf_Phone> Okay,
  6. 01[22:56] <Slowpoke> hey
  7. 01[22:56] <Slowpoke> so im curious this lying, stealing stuff, I am assuming your referring to me?
  8. [22:56] <GreenWolf_Phone> Mostly
  9. 01[22:57] <Slowpoke> im curious when you thought i lied or stole anything?
  10. [22:57] <GreenWolf_Phone> maybe not stealing, but definitely avoiding getting donation links up for modders while accepting donations yourself
  11. [22:58] <GreenWolf_Phone> as for lying, you've been lying about technic and resecting mod authors
  12. [22:58] <GreenWolf_Phone> or a least that's what it looks like
  13. 01[22:59] <Slowpoke> yeah, so I wanted to give you my side of that story and you can do what you want from there with the info
  14. 01[22:59] <Slowpoke> so lets start with the donation links.
  15. [23:00] <GreenWolf_Phone> until recently, your entire reason for why people should use FTB is that "FTB is legal unlike technic and respects the mod authors more"
  16. 01[23:00] <Slowpoke> this isnt really the point however you understand that none of the modders ever asked anyone to link into their donations, just into their pages
  17. 01[23:00] <Slowpoke> however right now we dont even do that
  18. 01[23:01] <Slowpoke> this isnt an excuse and we are out of order on this, however so you know the reason it is like that is when we originally set up FTB the pla was....
  19. 01[23:01] <Slowpoke> OK first I always had a problem with the way Technic did donation links
  20. 01[23:01] <Slowpoke> mainly because my impression based on feedback was 90% of the donations went to 10% of the developers
  21. 01[23:02] <Slowpoke> because people were inclined to donate to their favorite mods
  22. [23:02] <GreenWolf_Phone> so your saying people shouldn't be able to choose who their money goes to?
  23. 01[23:03] <Slowpoke> i wasnt comfortable with that, what I wanted to do was set up a fund per pack and then distribute that fund between the mod developers in that pack
  24. 01[23:03] <Slowpoke> we wernt going to do this hidden, essentially the plan was these funds would be managed by 3 people so there was no chance of anything dodgy going on
  25. [23:03] <GreenWolf_Phone> and now you can't agree how the money should be split
  26. 01[23:03] <Slowpoke> no we actually had a plan for the split
  27. 01[23:04] <Slowpoke> the problem was how to actually take in the money. from my understanding, we would have had to essentially set up something called a None Profit Organisation
  28. 01[23:04] <Slowpoke> so the money came into us and was then redistributed to all the mod developers
  29. 01[23:05] <Slowpoke> when we looked further into this, there was issues with things like international law differences, we would have to have an accountant and a lawyer and a load of other stuff that quite honestly we didnt want.
  30. [23:05] <GreenWolf_Phone> let me guess you ran into problems with thr Minecraft TOS clause about not profiting from mods?
  31. 01[23:05] <Slowpoke> actually the minecraft stuff was fine
  32. 01[23:06] <Slowpoke> donations apparently are ok
  33. 01[23:07] <Slowpoke> anyways long story short, we could have done it, but honestly i just dont want the hassle of it, so we are going to mimic what the technic guys do and just put up links to each of the mod developers threads. I dont like it but its about the best that we can do as things stand.
  34. 01[23:08] <Slowpoke> the main reason it isnt done now is Rob is currently redesigning the website in his free time, it will be part of that redesign, i have spoken to the relevent mod developers and they all seem to be fine with it
  35. 01[23:09] <Slowpoke> however this all sounds like an excuse, it isnt, we dont have links and bluntly we are out of order on that and I have said as much.
  36. [23:09] <GreenWolf_Phone> alright. But then what about this thing with the UE pack? I've heard the explanation that it was a joke
  37. 01[23:09] <Slowpoke> OK Universal Electricity
  38. [23:10] <GreenWolf_Phone> but even if it was a joke, it wasn't a very funny one, or even something you should joke about
  39. 01[23:10] <Slowpoke> before I get into this, there is something I need to explain
  40. 01[23:10] <Slowpoke> there is a fundemental Difference between UE and Voltz.
  41. 01[23:10] <Slowpoke> with UE or now ampz or whatever its called
  42. 01[23:11] <Slowpoke> they came to us and asked us to distribute the pack, with voltz, my understabding is Icewolf approached them and asked to distribute it
  43. 01[23:11] <Slowpoke> that may seem like a subtle difference
  44. 01[23:11] <Slowpoke> but its an important one
  45. 01[23:12] <Slowpoke> as far as FTB is concerned, UE is essentially the same thing as the packs that are distributed through platform
  46. [23:13] <GreenWolf_Phone> but they aren't the same thing at all. Platform is just an index, all it does is list the modpacks in a launcher readable format
  47. 01[23:13] <Slowpoke> when we originally set up the launcher the whole idea was that most server admins and pack developers would never have the resources to make a launcher, we did and were making one and in the design doc for the launcehr I wanted to let other people use the launcher
  48. 01[23:13] <Slowpoke> but we were only ever going to be a distributer
  49. [23:13] <GreenWolf_Phone> from what i understand, you screen each private pack and then host it yourselves
  50. 01[23:14] <Slowpoke> we did actually talk about doing it the way that technic does it
  51. 01[23:14] <Slowpoke> ie letting people host their own packs
  52. 01[23:14] <Slowpoke> we dismissed that idea in 30 seconds
  53. 01[23:14] <Slowpoke> and honestly and ive told Icewolf this
  54. 01[23:14] <Slowpoke> I think platform is a terrible idea for technic
  55. 01[23:14] <Slowpoke> the amount of abuse it is open to is horrendous
  56. [23:15] <GreenWolf_Phone> And then permissions happened, right?
  57. 01[23:15] <Slowpoke> it has not a lot to do with permissions
  58. 01[23:15] <Slowpoke> the reason we host everything on our own servers is because I didnt want to risk anything malicious being distributed through our launcher
  59. 01[23:16] <Slowpoke> every pack that we host from 3rd parties is checked
  60. 01[23:16] <Slowpoke> but thats all we do
  61. 01[23:16] <Slowpoke> check it, upload it and then thats it
  62. 01[23:16] <Slowpoke> so anyways, this leads onto UE
  63. 01[23:17] <Slowpoke> so soon after we start distributing UE, voltz shows up. the technic guys did a great job of promoting it
  64. 01[23:17] <Slowpoke> but Calclavia saw this and was wondering why we wernt doing the same thing
  65. 01[23:17] <Slowpoke> so he came and asked me about it
  66. 01[23:18] <Slowpoke> so what I essentially said to him was if he wanted all this extra workk from us, he could pay us for it. The problem was, and Im really not joking here if you ever hear Cal talk, he is from Hong Kong, but he almost sounds irish
  67. 01[23:19] <Slowpoke> I was trying to be ironic, ie making the point that the people who do all of this work are volunteers
  68. [23:20] <GreenWolf_Phone> you've got a lot more voluteers than Technic, and they seem to be doing okay
  69. 01[23:20] <Slowpoke> the side to this and you can check with Icewolf because I know they had the same issue, back then, calclavia was building the packs and honestly he cannot make packs
  70. 01[23:20] <Slowpoke> like there were days he was submitting 6 builds
  71. 01[23:20] <Slowpoke> each one of those was taking 15-20 minutes to check
  72. 01[23:20] <Slowpoke> anyways
  73. 01[23:21] <Slowpoke> i found out a couple days later that he thought i was being serious
  74. [23:21] <GreenWolf_Phone> from what I've heard from powercrystals and machinemuse he can't make a stable API either, but you didn't hear that from me
  75. 01[23:21] <Slowpoke> this is long before that chat log btw
  76. 01[23:21] <Slowpoke> this is way back when the pack first come out
  77. 01[23:22] <Slowpoke> so I have a terrible memory so i had to check to confirm this
  78. 01[23:22] <Slowpoke> but i definately got him on teamspeak and made it very clear i was joking
  79. 01[23:22] <Slowpoke> somehow the message didnt sink in
  80. 01[23:23] <Slowpoke> so a few months later a get a chatlog of Calclavia badmouthing FTB to icewolf in a public IRC
  81. 01[23:23] <Slowpoke> and seriously if your gonna go round badmouthing people behind their back and being all nice to them to their faces
  82. 01[23:23] <Slowpoke> I aint cool with that
  83. 01[23:23] <Slowpoke> so i went into his room
  84. [23:24] <GreenWolf_Phone> that chatlog is at least 49 days old. your saying this all happened several months before that?
  85. 01[23:24] <Slowpoke> now that chatlog, this is important, I am not talking to him as a developer there, but as a mod pack guy
  86. 01[23:24] <Slowpoke> the talk of the paying for adverts shit that was nov last year
  87. 01[23:24] <Slowpoke> like right after the launcher came out
  88. 01[23:25] <Slowpoke> honestly, what calclavia was doing was stroking Icewolfs ego
  89. 01[23:25] <Slowpoke> so heres the thing
  90. 01[23:25] <Slowpoke> after that incident Calclavia approached me
  91. 01[23:25] <Slowpoke> we have literally had all of this out
  92. 01[23:26] <Slowpoke> He now understands that this pay for it shit wasnt serious and we are cool with each other, hence why UE/Ampz is still on the launcehr and he still hangs out on our teamspeak
  93. 01[23:26] <Slowpoke> i will say this
  94. 01[23:26] <Slowpoke> threatening to take the pack off the launcher
  95. 01[23:27] <Slowpoke> not the coolest thing I ever did
  96. 01[23:27] <Slowpoke> not because it hurt Cal, but more because it might hurt every other developer involved.
  97. [23:27] <GreenWolf_Phone> I've also been told you deleted their teamspeak rooms as well
  98. 01[23:27] <Slowpoke> but truthfully, even if we did stop, it wouldnt touch their pack
  99. 01[23:27] <Slowpoke> i did for like 6 hours
  100. 01[23:28] <Slowpoke> as soon as cal and I spoke they were back up
  101. 01[23:28] <Slowpoke> by the way feel fre to speak to him about this
  102. 01[23:28] <Slowpoke> he did offer to go onto the technic forums and clarify all this, I asked him not to
  103. [23:29] <GreenWolf_Phone> why?
  104. 01[23:29] <Slowpoke> you gotta realise, Voltz gets (apparently) like a million downloads through technic (prob due to yogscast) they had like 50k downloads from us, there was no reason for them to alienate the hand that feeds them
  105. 01[23:30] <Slowpoke> besides would it really matter
  106. 01[23:30] <Slowpoke> i mean honestly, do any of you actually believe we would really ask for money
  107. [23:30] <GreenWolf_Phone> if you think cal explaining what happened would alienate the Technic team, you obviously don't know them very well
  108. 01[23:31] <Slowpoke> if we wanted money, id throw an advert up, we get a million hits a day on the website, anything Cal is going to give us is inconsequential.
  109. [23:31] <GreenWolf_Phone> slow, you have to understand that a lot of people on te forums consider you to be, well, slime
  110. 01[23:32] <Slowpoke> green seriously, after the crappy excuse Cheapshot gave for banning me i aint gonna take anything for granted
  111. [23:32] <GreenWolf_Phone> and you don't really do a lot to help fix that inpression
  112. 01[23:32] <Slowpoke> thing is. most of that is down to either mistrust or incomplete information or just this whole technic vs FTB stuff
  113. [23:33] <GreenWolf_Phone> look at it from his perspective, you came onto his forums and started causing some sort of trouble. should he have banned you for it? I don't know
  114. 01[23:33] <Slowpoke> and btw I am kinda an arse at times. but I dont hide it and I always stand by the shit I say and when I fuck up I admit it.
  115. 01[23:34] <Slowpoke> see that Green, thats not true. he straight up banned me because I questioned the permissions on Mo'Creatures and Optifine
  116. 01[23:34] <Slowpoke> no warnings no nothing
  117. 01[23:34] <Slowpoke> immediate perma ban
  118. 01[23:34] <Slowpoke> hell after that long thread where it got outta hand at the end
  119. 01[23:35] <Slowpoke> i wasnt banned or warned or anything for that
  120. [23:35] <GreenWolf_Phone> can you blame them for not trusting you though? Considering that your fanbois spam the technic forums almost weekly, and that the general atmosphere of your forums is unadulterated hatred for anything tehnic
  121. 01[23:35] <Slowpoke> and notice those 2 mods, both got took out of the pack. see heres the thing, right now technic is doing their best to go legit.
  122. 01[23:36] <Slowpoke> OK theres a couple of old packs that are still iffy, but honestly asking them to take those off the launcher would be unreasonable
  123. 01[23:37] <Slowpoke> right now I think what they are doing is really good. I have to wonder how much of that would have happened if FTB wasnt around, but thats not important. From where I sit, its an attitude shift and thats all I ever wanted.
  124. 01[23:37] <Slowpoke> and I dont just say this behind closed doors, I am saying this shit in public to
  125. [23:38] <GreenWolf_Phone> so then why the hatred of technic still? I don't see you giving warnings to people on your forums who spew anti-technic hatred?
  126. 01[23:38] <Slowpoke> this isnt to say as cheapshot puts it, Technic is OK cause the almighty Slowpoke says so or whatever it is he says. I really dont think I am all that.
  127. 01[23:39] <Slowpoke> I dont hate technic right now im almost in full support
  128. [23:39] <GreenWolf_Phone> heck, most threads about technic I've seen on your forums devolve into a putrid stream of hatred and get locked
  129. 01[23:39] <Slowpoke> I do think platform is a big mistake though
  130. 01[23:39] <Slowpoke> but are they getting locked because they are just pointless at that point?
  131. 01[23:40] <Slowpoke> its like that yogscast thread
  132. 01[23:41] <Slowpoke> between you and those other guys you managed to totally derail that thread to the point where you got reported and people who actually wanted to talk about the pack didnt want to go in there because of the technic shit
  133. [23:41] <GreenWolf_Phone> and then we get to that. why censor me? If the chatlog was incorrect, why delete the entire post? why not explain what actually happened?
  134. [23:41] <GreenWolf_Phone> and why did you not censor the anti-technic people?
  135. 01[23:42] <Slowpoke> on that note, i know its not really relevent, but all of these youtuber packs and the youtubers involved and using FTB. we did not ask or approach a single one (Inc. Direwolf) and ask them to use the pack, every one of them came to us.
  136. [23:42] <GreenWolf_Phone> also, that lukeb guy, I know who he is, and I didn't tell him to go spam that thread. I'm gonna actually talk to him about that after this
  137. 01[23:42] <Slowpoke> honestly if thats not happening, I can look at it. but forum moderation, I dont touch it, you may have noticed im barely on there.
  138. 01[23:43] <Slowpoke> i have always been very clear that talking about technic on the forums as long as its kept civil is ok
  139. [23:43] <GreenWolf_Phone> like I said, there's a strong atmosphere of tehnic hate on your forums, even among the moderators
  140. 01[23:43] <Slowpoke> that thread though has made me change that policy though
  141. [23:44] <GreenWolf_Phone> and it probably doesn't help that quite a few of your mods used to be active supporters of flowerchild
  142. [23:44] <GreenWolf_Phone> even if they do support forge now, they probably still hate technic
  143. 01[23:44] <Slowpoke> lol trust me, theres no way I am going to discuss this but thats absolutely not the case now
  144. 01[23:46] <Slowpoke> as to hating technic, most of them dislike it yeah, but lets be honest or a long time they really did not give a shit about permissions and even now they still refuse to show permissions publicly. I dont think that hatred is ever really going to go away, Kakermix burnt way to many bridges in the past and I dont think he has ever or will ever show any remorse for that
  145. 01[23:50] <Slowpoke> im not like most people though, i know you prob wont believe this but I really am for the most part fine with technic now, i removed the ban on talking about it while I stream, several times ive commented on stream that they are moving to being legit now
  146. [23:55] <GreenWolf_Phone> alright.
  147. [23:55] <GreenWolf_Phone> I believe you
  148. 01[23:55] <Slowpoke> lol i pretty much never lie, you always get caught out and it bites you in the arse.
  149. 01[23:58] <Slowpoke> i know we are far from perfect. but when you come out and make accusations like lying and theft, thats not cool. you understand that most of the stuff we do money wise we dont brag about it. like giving mods money, I aint rich by any means, I give some money out but truthfully what I normally do is flash fundraisers for developers. like a 15 minute fundraiser during a stream..
  150. 01[23:59] <Slowpoke> i also never see anyone on technics forums mention the $10,000 we raised for childs play last year during the live streams. Thats the kind of stuff I like doing.
  151. Session Time: Tue Mar 19 00:00:00 2013
  152. 01[00:01] <Slowpoke> anyways if you ever have a problem with something we or I have done. Feel free to come talk to me about it, but if you do end up just bashing me in a place where I aint allowed to at least defend those actions, then I am going to get upset about it.
  153. [00:02] <GreenWolf_Phone> Alright.
  154. 01[00:02] <Slowpoke> kk
  155. [00:02] <GreenWolf_Phone> Is it okay if I use this chatlog in a post correcting what I said previously?
  156. 01[00:03] <Slowpoke> i fully expected this chatlog to get posted
  157. 01[00:03] <Slowpoke> they always do
  158. [00:04] <GreenWolf_Phone> also, you guys can distribute my mod if you want. I would't have stopped you anyways, because, you know GPL and stuff
  159. 01[00:05] <Slowpoke> k up to you right now, i changed that temp ban on the forums to a full ban cause honestly based on the stuff you were saying, it felt like your only real motive for coming on the forums was to troll or flame bait. if you want me to ask them to change that back I will as long as you at least try to be a little more moderate on the forums
  160. [00:06] <GreenWolf_Phone> Alright. I should probably just try an avoid posts about Technic anyways
  161. 01[00:06] <Slowpoke> im also going to give you guys a place to post. I really dont want to see legitimate threads derailed quite that bad again to the point that legit posted dont want to post.
  162. 01[00:07] <Slowpoke> but i also dont want to censor you guys
  163. 01[00:07] <Slowpoke> theres a reason i visit the technic forums
  164. 01[00:07] <Slowpoke> your FTB's harshest critics, so you always point out the things that need improving.
  165. [00:08] <GreenWolf_Phone> Like the private packs? ;)
  166. 01[00:08] <Slowpoke> we have actually closed them for now
  167. 01[00:09] <Slowpoke> i made a mistake with those
  168. 01[00:09] <Slowpoke> I named them wrong
  169. 01[00:09] <Slowpoke> cause they aint really private
  170. 01[00:10] <Slowpoke> they are more server packs
  171. 01[00:10] <Slowpoke> and theres quite a few of them on there
  172. [00:12] <GreenWolf_Phone> It is kind of ridiculous that you need to get permissions for a server pack though
  173. [00:12] <GreenWolf_Phone> that's what's really keeping it from being as popular as platform
  174. [00:13] <GreenWolf_Phone> according to cheap, there are literally hundreds of "private" packs on the platform that are hidden to the public
  175. 01[00:13] <Slowpoke> yeah no comment on that one, honestly though, like 90% of mods are open now
  176. 01[00:13] <Slowpoke> i believe him
  177. [00:13] <GreenWolf_Phone> and the ones that aren't can be easily replaced
  178. [00:13] <GreenWolf_Phone> i think the biggest issue is red power
  179. [00:14] <GreenWolf_Phone> alot of people want to use it in public packs, but eloraam can't be contacted, and her license is one of the strictest their is
  180. [00:15] <GreenWolf_Phone> and if you include red power you lose permission for the mods that require you have permission for all mods in the pack
  181. 01[00:16] <Slowpoke> yup
  182. [00:16] <GreenWolf_Phone> this has been said a few times, but the reason Technic doesn't disclose permissions from modmakers is the same reason obama doesn't walk around with his birth certificate strapped to his chest
  183. [00:17] <GreenWolf_Phone> one, it wouldn't make a difference, and two, they think it's not your (the public's) business
  184. [00:17] <GreenWolf_Phone> Permissions are private communications between modders and modpackers, and I guess Technic doesn't want to disclose private communictions
  185. [00:18] <GreenWolf_Phone> in the case of FTB, the modders chose to make the permissions publuc
  186. 01[00:18] <Slowpoke> see the thing is, 1 it would make a difference to a lot of people and 2 thats fine to say its noones business, but then your just giving people a reason not to download your pack. personally id rather give people a reason to download the pack.
  187. 01[00:19] <Slowpoke> and actually for us we started out with permissions that were private
  188. [00:19] <GreenWolf_Phone> although I have yet to see a "list of permissions" other than that ancient on the MC Forums
  189. 01[00:19] <Slowpoke> the main reason we changed was because it was a forum rule on the Minecraft site and DNS made a complaint about us
  190. [00:20] <GreenWolf_Phone> lol, DNS
  191. 01[00:20] <Slowpoke> yeah
  192. 01[00:20] <Slowpoke> thing is though
  193. 01[00:20] <Slowpoke> they were right
  194. [00:20] <GreenWolf_Phone> aren't they the ones ho encourage pirating minecraft
  195. 01[00:20] <Slowpoke> they used to be
  196. 01[00:21] <Slowpoke> apparently they are legit now
  197. [00:21] <GreenWolf_Phone> really? Then why does Thaumcraft have hardcoded DRM against them?
  198. [00:22] <GreenWolf_Phone> or railcraft for that matter
  199. [00:23] <GreenWolf_Phone> Thaumcraft's DRM is kind of indirect though. It just checks if another mod's DRM (I think IC2's anti dns stuff, although it could be railcraft's) and then disables itself
  200. 01[00:23] <Slowpoke> i have no idea, honestly i dont know if they are legit or not, i just heard they had made the effort to go legit
  201. [00:23] <GreenWolf_Phone> Railcraft has a hardcoded ban against the DNS test server and the maker of DNS
  202. 01[00:23] <Slowpoke> as bad as technic is disliked, dns was worse
  203. [00:24] <GreenWolf_Phone> but apparently it's only active on weekdays
  204. [00:24] <GreenWolf_Phone> so yeah, no clue where cj was going with that one, but it's kind of hilarious
  205. [00:25] <GreenWolf_Phone> also lol at the class name for his DRM
  206. [00:25] <GreenWolf_Phone> "FishingPlugin"
  207. [00:26] <GreenWolf_Phone> But yeah DNS is bad, and if other modders want to include anti DNS stuff, I'm fine with that
  208. [00:28] <GreenWolf_Phone> shit, I forgot that my phone's irc client only logs the last 50 or so lines of chat. Would you mind sending me a chatlog slow?
  209. 01[00:28] <Slowpoke> hold on
  210. [00:30] <GreenWolf_Phone> thanks. and hey, thanks for taking the time to talk to me and clear things up. I'm sorry for making accusations against you guys too.
  211. 01[00:30] <Slowpoke> thats fine. now i gotta deal with Luke he made a complaint about you getting temp banned
  212. 01[00:30] <Slowpoke> dont know if you want to talk to him
  213. [00:31] <GreenWolf_Phone> I'll talk to him. He's definitely out of line
  214. 01[00:32] <Slowpoke> where do you want this chatlog? just pastebin?
  215. [00:32] <GreenWolf_Phone> that's fine
  216. -
  217. 01[00:32] GreenWolf_Phone is ~GreenWolf@66-87-68-26.pools.spcsdns.net * GreenWolf13
  218. 01[00:32] GreenWolf_Phone using portlane.esper.net Internet is fun.
  219. 01[00:32] GreenWolf_Phone has been idle 6secs, signed on Mon Mar 18 22:54:28
  220. 01[00:32] GreenWolf_Phone is logged in as GreenWolf13
  221. 01[00:32] GreenWolf_Phone End of /WHOIS list.
  222. -
  223. [00:33] <GreenWolf_Phone> You can even delete it afterwards if you want, I just need to grab a copy for reference purposes
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