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  1. [15:27] <Lao_Ban_> The second group is OkCoin
  2. [15:27] <Lao_Ban_> I can announce this today
  3. [15:27] <Hugo2> OkCoin the chinese exchange?
  4. [15:27] <Lao_Ban_> lawyers were just retained in Tokyo
  5. [15:27] <Lao_Ban_> yes
  6. [15:27] <Mantrid> So you are saying that Mark is not a good honest man?
  7. [15:27] <Aquent> so whats the plan now?
  8. [15:27] <anarchystar> 15:25:31 <Lao_Ban_> they were in a smoke filled room with MK figuring out how to profit from our misery -> lol sounds like a movie scene
  9. [15:27] <Lao_Ban_> there will be a push for them to sponsor a plan
  10. [15:27] <esse-> really.. thats kinda neat
  11. [15:28] <anarchystar> okcoin is solid.. i will back that
  12. [15:28] <esse-> have you been in contact with OKCoin Lao_Ban_?
  13. [15:28] <Lao_Ban_> yes
  14. [15:28] <Lao_Ban_> i have been talking to them for a couple weeks, they are creditors
  15. [15:28] <Aquent> what do they plan to do now?
  16. [15:28] <Mantrid> What about the news today, they might back off now?
  17. [15:28] <Lao_Ban_> the CEO MingXing (Star) Xu is a creditor of Gox
  18. [15:28] <Starduster> and what a timing with bans in china for okcoin
  19. [15:29] <Lao_Ban_> this is good for them
  20. [15:29] <esse-> Lao_Ban_, creditor in the sense of having coins with gox?
  21. [15:29] <Lao_Ban_> this is partly why it makes sense
  22. [15:29] <esse-> or an investor
  23. [15:29] <Lao_Ban_> esse-: yes
  24. [15:29] <scalability-junk> anarchystar> okcoin is solid.. i will back that <-- I would probably second that
  25. [15:29] <Lao_Ban_> he had a few hunded coins there
  26. [15:29] <Lao_Ban_> same with everyone else from OkCoin that I have talked to here
  27. [15:29] <esse-> well this is good news
  28. [15:29] <esse-> so are they formulating a plan atm?
  29. [15:30] <Lao_Ban_> yes
  30. [15:30] <Lao_Ban_> I can give you the basics of it
  31. [15:30] <scalability-junk> Crowdfunding for outbidding sunlot... :D
  32. [15:30] <Lao_Ban_> debt equity swap
  33. [15:30] <Hugo2> <esse-> well this is good news <- first real good news in a long time
  34. [15:30] <Lao_Ban_> 49% go to creditors
  35. [15:30] <scalability-junk> Lao_Ban_: payout of 20% of the assets?
  36. [15:30] <Lao_Ban_> the remaining assets get put into accounts and are available when the exchange opens
  37. [15:30] <anarchystar> nice
  38. [15:30] <Mantrid> I really question how Okcon can be interested, given that PBOC really wants to shut down btc in china completely
  39. [15:30] <scalability-junk> what about the profit issue?
  40. [15:30] <Lao_Ban_> you can withdraw them as fast as technically allowable
  41. [15:31] <anarchystar> Mantrid: maybe they want to move to japan :)
  42. [15:31] <anarchystar> they have both markets though.. china and western
  43. [15:31] <esse-> ~
  44. [15:31] <Lao_Ban_> they are going to put up $1M of cash for now and sell other shares to raise more capital as needed
  45. [15:31] <Lao_Ban_> but
  46. [15:31] <anarchystar> could be huge
  47. [15:31] <scalability-junk> btc as btc and fiat as fiat? how is it determined?
  48. [15:31] <Lao_Ban_> resources can be provided aside from cash
  49. [15:31] <b4epoche> For people with fiat currency at Gox, who will that be handled?
  50. [15:31] <Lao_Ban_> and technology can be licensed
  51. [15:31] <Lao_Ban_> as for the bitcoin/fiat issue
  52. [15:31] <Lao_Ban_> i was going to propose this
  53. [15:31] <anarchystar> i will buy some shares
  54. [15:32] <Lao_Ban_> take the average price of a bitcoin from jan 31 to now and use that
  55. [15:32] <anarchystar> can i swap my debt for shares?
  56. [15:32] <anarchystar> 5 million? ;)
  57. [15:32] <Lao_Ban_> anarchystar: I will have to ask Xu, but I am pretty sure this will be okay
  58. [15:32] <Lao_Ban_> I will back it for sure
  59. [15:32] <b4epoche> I sold my BTC (on Gox) before they went down and only had fiat there
  60. [15:33] <Hugo2> Lao_Ban_, again, thanks for your time, for the people who can not be there, you are helping a lot
  61. [15:33] <Lao_Ban_> there will be people who had fiat only an btc only, the big issue is how to value bitcoin
  62. [15:33] <Lao_Ban_> Hugo2: thanks man, its my pleasure to be a part of this
  63. [15:33] <Aquent> why not just return them as btc
  64. [15:33] <b4epoche> Lao_Ban_: gotcha
  65. [15:33] <Lao_Ban_> there is not an exact ratio of btc/fiat to users owed btc/fiat
  66. [15:34] <Lao_Ban_> if that makes sense
  67. [15:34] <Lao_Ban_> also
  68. [15:34] <b4epoche> I'd obviously love to get my (fiat) money out...
  69. [15:34] <Lao_Ban_> we need to determine who gets what percentage of shares
  70. [15:34] <Lao_Ban_> so bitcoin needs a value on it for the shares
  71. [15:34] <Aquent> you can treat them as separate
  72. [15:34] <Aquent> btc balances get % of btc assets
  73. [15:34] <Aquent> fiat balances get % of fiat assets
  74. [15:35] <Aquent> ohh yeah for the shares
  75. [15:35] <b4epoche> wouldn't that be bad for btc holders?
  76. [15:35] <anarchystar> Lao_Ban_: will okcoin cooperate with community to release all info on hack? like where the btc got sent etc? i think with croud effort we can find out
  77. [15:35] <b4epoche> I know they lost fiat, but didn't they lose more btc?
  78. [15:35] <Hugo2> b4epoche, yes
  79. [15:36] <Lao_Ban_> anarchystar: yes they will. The Chinese I have spoken with on that side have been very concerned about this
  80. [15:36] == fftt [2a02c940@gateway/web/freenode/ip.42.2.201.64] has joined ##mtgox-talk
  81. [15:36] <Lao_Ban_> the first thing that has to happen is an audit
  82. [15:36] <esse-> Lao_Ban_, do they have to submit this proposal before tuesday? that was the deadline if i recall right
  83. [15:36] <Lao_Ban_> there is no deadline
  84. [15:36] <Lao_Ban_> but we will want a meeting with the supervisor next week
  85. [15:36] <Lao_Ban_> there is no hard deadline i should say
  86. [15:37] <esse-> really ok
  87. [15:37] <Lao_Ban_> from what I understand
  88. [15:37] <Lao_Ban_> but we still need to move fast
  89. [15:37] == misos [839b4404@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.155.68.4] has joined ##mtgox-talk
  90. [15:37] <scalability-junk> Lao_Ban_: alright btc valued at the average price over various markets and since the trouble started... 1 Jan 2014?
  91. [15:37] <esse-> [12:38] <Dr-G2> but why now, shaded said next tuesday sponsors have to make their plans public
  92. [15:37] <Lao_Ban_> I would say Jan 31 2014, but it is open for debate for the time being
  93. [15:37] <esse-> so what is shaded really referring to there..
  94. [15:38] <Lao_Ban_> i have no idea what he is talking about
  95. [15:38] <scalability-junk> Lao_Ban_: so what's the exact plan?
  96. [15:38] <Aquent> shaded ddint know court ordered liquidation yesterday
  97. [15:38] <anarchystar> shaded also said they have 70% which is bs
  98. [15:38] <Lao_Ban_> this coming from someone who was paid to come in here after Sun Lot claims he has 70% of our support
  99. [15:38] <anarchystar> its all bs
  100. [15:38] <Aquent> he thought there would be another hearing next week where liquidation or rehab is decidd
  101. [15:38] <scalability-junk> use all btc and give them pro rata to btc holders, use fiat assets and give them pro rata to fiat holders
  102. [15:38] <esse-> ok I will just wipe everything shaded has said from my memory and star afresh
  103. [15:38] <Aquent> i dont know how gox managed to get abrankruptcy hearing without any creditor being notified
  104. [15:39] <scalability-junk> the remaining debt of btc and fiat will then be valued in fiat and swapped pro rata (fiat value) for shares of the 49%
  105. [15:39] <Aquent> isnt that some procedural irregularity?
  106. [15:39] <Lao_Ban_> you guys get the remaining assets funded to your account, get shares in the new company totaling 49%
  107. [15:39] <Lao_Ban_> in exchange for the existing debt
  108. [15:40] <scalability-junk> yeah but remaining assets... is open for debate
  109. [15:40] <Aquent> how would okcoin get the assets from the liquidator?
  110. [15:40] <anarchystar> insider trading you mean scalability-junk ?
  111. [15:40] <scalability-junk> but btc pro rata for btc and same for fiat as I said?
  112. [15:40] <Callezetter> and % of the profit or? Can we trade the shares?
  113. [15:40] <Mantrid> can shares be traded between the accounts?
  114. [15:40] <Lao_Ban_> OkCoin has also talked about giving an annual dividend for the first few years of 10%, but we have not decided 100%
  115. [15:40] <samson_> I would have thought there is a procedure error there somewhere. Often a creditor will buy out someone who's going bankrupt
  116. [15:40] <Lao_Ban_> there may be more there to discuss, but they we want to do that
  117. [15:41] <scalability-junk> anarchystar: if you are referring to my rumor about mark and sunlot plotting to buy up cheap virtual coins, yes insider trading.
  118. [15:41] <anarchystar> scalability-junk: yes im also very worried about that
  119. [15:41] <anarchystar> scalability-junk: we need to look at all the big traders in the last days/weeks
  120. [15:41] <Lao_Ban_> i agree one hundred percent there
  121. [15:41] <scalability-junk> Lao_Ban_: if there is evidence of insidertrading I would suggest freezing these accounts aka sunlot, mark (rumor)
  122. [15:41] <samson_> In a hostile takeover scenario of a private company a creditor could lure a company into debt only to have them liquidated and buy them from the administrator - anything's possible
  123. [15:42] <anarchystar> obviously i would never trust these savegox guys who are the actual insiders to do that.. lol
  124. [15:42] <anarchystar> but okcoin.. sure
  125. [15:42] <esse-> savegox .. or the worlds biggest exchange :D
  126. [15:42] <esse-> hmm
  127. [15:42] <Lao_Ban_> think about if the savegox guys had their way where we would be
  128. [15:42] <anarchystar> no connection to mark afaik
  129. [15:42] <anarchystar> mtgox 2.0 (even worse)
  130. [15:43] <samson_> php v6, much bettern than php5
  131. [15:43] <scalability-junk> Lao_Ban_: so I would probably push to not use % of profits for dividend. (unreliable as hell) probably more worthwhile to say 1-5% of fees/etc.
  132. [15:43] <Lao_Ban_> theyd have 40M USD or so of our money to experimen with an exchange and no obligation to pay us back for years, our money locked up for a year
  133. [15:43] <samson_> lol
  134. [15:43] == Starduster_ [~Starduste@unaffiliated/starduster] has joined ##mtgox-talk
  135. [15:43] <scalability-junk> profit can go back into equity wealth
  136. [15:43] <Lao_Ban_> scalability-junk: I dont disagree, we want to make sure people get compensated aside from an increase in share price
  137. [15:43] <Lao_Ban_> but obv one way to get money is to sell your shares
  138. [15:43] == Starduster [~Starduste@unaffiliated/starduster] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
  139. [15:44] <Lao_Ban_> contact a stock broker
  140. [15:44] <Lao_Ban_> he will take ten percent and will find a buyer
  141. [15:44] <Lao_Ban_> or you can probably find someone on irc to buy them, or reddit
  142. [15:44] <zewelor> anarchystar: are there anywhere on the www leaked data from gox ? I remember some strange withdraws on one big acscount after gox stopped withdraws, maybe thats the account to look at ...
  143. [15:44] <scalability-junk> Lao_Ban_: that's expensive for small holders. % of fees is a much better solution for them.
  144. [15:44] <Lao_Ban_> ill handle the paperwork for a small fee :-D
  145. [15:44] <Aquent> or maybe the new exchange can offer share buying selling service too? or someone else set up an exchange for selling buying gox shares if legal
  146. [15:44] <zewelor> Lao_Ban_: maybe just make tradeable pair on new exchange ?
  147. [15:44] <Mantrid> what do you think will happen to ppl who have goxcoin on bitcoinbuildder
  148. [15:45] <Lao_Ban_> we cant offer share buying or selling yet
  149. [15:45] <Lao_Ban_> regulation is heavy
  150. [15:45] <Lao_Ban_> but no reason why you cant sell on the private market
  151. [15:45] <zerwas> Mantrid: how many goxcoins are in the hand of bitcoinbuilder?
  152. [15:46] <Aquent> in regards to this 202k btc - what hapens now? Liquidator has to return them to individual creditors or can he give em to okcoin to distribute?
  153. [15:46] <Lao_Ban_> Mantrid: that is a good question. We will have to await the audit results, but obv we want to untangle that mess and cash people out
  154. [15:46] <anarchystar> zewelor: besides what was leaked for pre 2014 i have no idea
  155. [15:46] <zewelor> Lao_Ban_: anyway looks like you are brining great news
  156. [15:46] <Mantrid> i would think Josh has something like 5-10k in his account
  157. [15:46] <Lao_Ban_> Aquent: if he accepts OkCoin's plan, he would give them to OkCoin for us
  158. [15:46] <zewelor> anarchystar: i mean that last leak, there was some www website where everything was parsed nicely
  159. [15:46] <Lao_Ban_> otherwise, they will be sold to the highest bidder
  160. [15:46] <Aquent> he can legaly to dthat?
  161. [15:46] <Lao_Ban_> Aquent: yes
  162. [15:46] <zewelor> and there was some account with withdraws up to 10th of march something like that
  163. [15:47] <zewelor> weird
  164. [15:47] <anarchystar> zewelor: yes thats very wierd.. worth looking into
  165. [15:47] <Lao_Ban_> zewlor: I am trying
  166. [15:47] <scalability-junk> Lao_Ban_: so we have btc assets payed pro rata, fiat assets payed pro rata, remaining debt will be valued at average coin price since Jan 1 2014 and swaped with equity (49%). Repayed assets will be open for withdrawal instantly. Additionally a dividend of 2-5% of fees/income could be payed as a dividend directly into the accounts holding the equity.
  167. [15:47] <scalability-junk> Additionally equity prices can rise. Trading equity could be done via brokers or better via the new exchange as virtual tokens (rights for dividends)
  168. [15:47] <Lao_Ban_> there is stll a lot to do