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  2. Democratic party civil war
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  5. /pol/ - Politically Incorrect
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  14.  DEMOCRAT PARTY CIVIL WAR Anonymous (ID: n09Y6lI2)  01/24/16(Sun)22:59:58 No.61965205 Archived▶>>61965623 >>61965742 >>61965886 >>61966095 >>61966751 >>61967072 >>61967341 >>61967416 >>61967470 >>61967620 >>61968355 >>61969352 >>61969499 >>61970049 >>61972820 >>61975902 >>61976812 >>61976876
  15. It's happening, /pol/. They're tearing themselves apart. Sanders is winning in NH. Some polls also put him ahead in Iowa.
  17. Now the Huff cunts are attacking him.
  19. >Democrats have such a nasty habit of trashing themselves that it's remarkable they ever win an election. Take the situation right now. They have, effectively, two presidential candidates. One, Hillary Clinton, looked like a sure winner and a shoo-in to be the next president. The other, Bernie Sanders, is unelectable.
  24. >>
  25.  Anonymous (ID: FSD7H8m6)  01/24/16(Sun)23:01:04 No.61965287▶>>61965852 >>61967726 >>61967908 >>61967990 >>61968788 >>61968993 >>61969465 >>61972400 >>61973433 >>61974596 >>61974647 >>61975465 >>61976766 >>61977213
  26. File: sleeper candidate.png (155 KB, 275x263)
  27. 155 KB
  28. Does anyone actually think Sanders is going to beat Clinton?
  29. >>
  30.  Anonymous (ID: YUogL6qw)  01/24/16(Sun)23:06:00 No.61965623▶
  31. >>61965205 (OP)
  32. If they want to lose and ensure they won't win for 40 years then go agead
  33. >>
  34.  Anonymous (ID: LJuL8WST)  01/24/16(Sun)23:07:43 No.61965742▶>>61967301 >>61968876
  35. >>61965205 (OP)
  36. I want Bernie to win the nomination just so Hillary winning isn't a possibility.
  37. >>
  38.  Anonymous (ID: pgyLU0lI)  01/24/16(Sun)23:09:26 No.61965852▶
  39. >>61965287
  40. I do :D
  41. >>
  42.  Anonymous (ID: bbkJoAzR)  01/24/16(Sun)23:09:53 No.61965886▶>>61965955
  43. >>61965205 (OP)
  44. >
  45. false flag everyone.
  47. hillary is pulling ahead ever since bernie released his tax plan.
  48. >>
  49.  Anonymous (ID: YUogL6qw)  01/24/16(Sun)23:10:53 No.61965955▶>>61966025
  50. >>61965886
  51. Go with the one that doesn't add 12 trillion in debt and you actually get great shit for that money
  52. >>
  53.  Anonymous (ID: YUogL6qw)  01/24/16(Sun)23:11:52 No.61966025▶>>61967630
  54. >>61965955
  55. Also Trump wants half that shit too so I don't even know what is going on anymore. Needs less meme magic
  56. >>
  57.  Anonymous (ID: 250M+VCY)  01/24/16(Sun)23:12:53 No.61966095▶
  58. >>61965205 (OP)
  59. >projecting
  60. >bait and switch
  61. go to bed, milo
  62. >>
  63.  Anonymous (ID: YUogL6qw)  01/24/16(Sun)23:13:44 No.61966152▶
  64. ^
  65. >>
  66.  Anonymous (ID: 6tS+Stb7)  01/24/16(Sun)23:20:26 No.61966612▶>>61967122 >>61967223 >>61967933 >>61970361 >>61971629 >>61973398 >>61975195
  67. At this point neither Bernie, Hillary or that other guy will be the nominee.
  68. >Hillary loses tons of support to bernie
  69. >Wasserman-Schultz, Schumer, Reid, and Pelosi realize that they can't let this happen, he's too anti banker and against them
  70. >democrats run the most establishment yet likable candidates they have, possibly Al Gore or Joe Biden
  71. >Bernie Sanders goes independent, splitting the vote and allowing The Donald to win
  72. >dems get both Trumped and Berned.
  73. >it is now January 20th 2017 and Donald Trump announces that he is making Bernie Sanders Secretary of Health and Human Services
  74. >"I was on his side all along" says Secretary Sanders
  75. >neo liberals destroyed forever
  76. >>
  77.  Anonymous (ID: z7iANKA4)  01/24/16(Sun)23:22:24 No.61966751▶>>61967503 >>61969070
  78. >>61965205 (OP)
  79. There are 4 main factions of the Democratic party, that I can tell.
  81. 1.
  82. >The parents
  83. The people that line the Democratic parties coffers, and vote consistently for them no matter how much they change, and no matter how attractive the other side may be. They act as a force keeping the Dems as close to the center as possible. Unions by large are the largest and most consistent donors to Democrats, and working class union voters, along with welfare recipients, form the most consistent, generational voting bloc. Soccer moms, fudds, higher minimum wage, higher taxes- basic bitch stuff.
  85. 2.
  86. >The sugar daddy
  88. The DNC wants to fool around a bit without mommy and daddy knowing, and these people in power- from corporations, especially banking and insurance firms, to individuals, such as Soros and Bloomberg, are the people that give individual candidates the most lucrative deals. They have the true power. They can line pockets with cash surreptitiously, through a series of silent exchanges laundered through various foundations, all in the name of "advancing equality" or something. Or they can splash money on the floor and watch their candidates degrade themselves picking it up. They have 'advisory' positions and board of trustee positions lined up in the private sector in the future, if the candidate slips in some beneficial policies and smacks down opposing ones. And unlike Unions, who just want 'not a Republican', firms can individually work with candidates all the way up the political ladder in a series of quid pro quo.
  89. >>
  90.  Anonymous (ID: HKivUjeg)  01/24/16(Sun)23:25:29 No.61966972▶>>61968085
  91. I hope to god the DNC fudges the numbers and gives Hilldog the nomination when Bernie should have gotten it, it would throw their whole party into absolute chaos.
  92. >>
  93.  Anonymous (ID: exiHQnvV)  01/24/16(Sun)23:26:12 No.61967019▶>>61967437
  94. Think about this, if Bloomberg runs independent, and Hillary is the nominee, the left wing vote will be split 3 way between Bloomberg, Clinton, and Jill Stein
  96. I'm only adding Stein because she is bernie Sanders on steroids, and Sanders followers would go to her
  97. >>
  98.  Anonymous (ID: tCGUkfNi)  01/24/16(Sun)23:27:02 No.61967072▶>>61967177
  99. >>61965205 (OP)
  101. >more emphasis than Clinton on raising the minimum wage, limiting income inequality
  103. Let's walk through this logically.
  105. Sanders gets elected and mandates minimum wage be doubled or tripled or whatever he wants.
  107. Businesses can't afford to pay those wages for everyone, so they either raise prices or reduce the workforce (possibly both.)
  109. That means more people out of work and the purchasing power of the dollar going down even further. How does that 'limit income equality' exactly?
  110. >>
  111.  Anonymous (ID: 250M+VCY)  01/24/16(Sun)23:27:42 No.61967122▶>>61967459
  112. >>61966612
  113. >I have no idea what neoliberalism is
  114. >actually I just have no idea how politics works at all
  115. >>
  116.  Anonymous (ID: HKivUjeg)  01/24/16(Sun)23:28:16 No.61967177▶
  117. >>61967072
  118. muh living wage
  119. muh 1 percent
  120. >>
  121.  Anonymous (ID: 2DLxpMIY)  01/24/16(Sun)23:28:54 No.61967223▶>>61971356
  122. >>61966612
  123. Are you stupid or just acting like it?
  124. >>
  125.  Anonymous (ID: aPnpqV6M)  01/24/16(Sun)23:30:00 No.61967301▶>>61968876
  126. >>61965742
  127. This to be honest, senpai.
  129. Prefer neigh on literally anyone other than hillary for president.
  130. >>
  131.  Anonymous (ID: IcQx+hGv)  01/24/16(Sun)23:30:30 No.61967341▶
  132. >>61965205 (OP)
  133. Is it possible Hillary will rig the election and all nominatins? She is proven to be criminal.
  134. >>
  135.  Anonymous (ID: JGBBgW4/)  01/24/16(Sun)23:31:24 No.61967416▶
  136. File: local train is fucking in(...).jpg (22 KB, 660x630)
  137. 22 KB
  138. >>61965205 (OP)
  139. >One, Hillary Clinton, looked like a sure winner and a shoo-in to be the next president.
  140. >>
  141.  Anonymous (ID: aPnpqV6M)  01/24/16(Sun)23:31:46 No.61967437▶
  142. >>61967019
  143. Isn't that the guy who promised to spend billion to get on the ballots if hillary isn't the dem rep?
  144. >>
  145.  Anonymous (ID: 6tS+Stb7)  01/24/16(Sun)23:32:02 No.61967459▶>>61970361
  146. >>61967122
  147. I only came here recently, I'm usually on abovetopsecret .com
  148. >>
  149.  Anonymous (ID: Mu23VngS)  01/24/16(Sun)23:32:12 No.61967470▶>>61967798 >>61969258 >>61974751
  150. File: MerchantGoodman.png (66 KB, 553x600)
  151. 66 KB
  152. >>61965205 (OP)
  154. GOODMAN
  155. O
  156. O
  157. D
  158. M
  159. A
  160. N
  162. Why is Sanders on the wrong side of the Jewish establishment pol? Is he redpilled?
  163. >>
  164.  Anonymous (ID: ieuxMU6d)  01/24/16(Sun)23:32:18 No.61967481▶
  165. This is shaping up to be a really interesting election.
  167. It's a longshot but I could see a four-way Presidential contest. Both the Republican and Democratic parties are unraveling.
  168. >>
  169.  Anonymous (ID: z7iANKA4)  01/24/16(Sun)23:32:38 No.61967503▶
  170. >>61966751 (You)
  171. 3.
  172. > The children
  173. The lovable face of the Democratic party. When the parents, returning to their house slowly being paid off, after their 9-5, to their spouses and biological offspring, they turn on the boob tube, or open the paper, or watch online liberal news and entertainment sources, to see the Leftist's spawn on TV.
  174. Feminism, LGBTQA, BLM, Ahmed cryers, dem poor illegal immigrants, and all sorts of 'wild' factions - which in reality are very well funded, scripted, deployed and organized by the establishment, presented as the "new America".
  176. The thought rarely crosses the mind of most of the parents.
  177. >If we're the majority of this party, and its wallet and purse, and our union ralleys trump those freakshow mobs in scope and scale...
  178. >Why is all of the parties PR money being spent to amplify a small segment of the population?
  179. >Hipsters, sociology majors, WE WUZ, and people who shouldn't even be capable of voting in the first place, let alone know English?
  180. These people, once in power, wish move the nation further to "European" ideals. Free Healthcare, Education, Amnesty, Mass Immigration.
  181. Those who did dare to question got eaten alive like Mr. Jim Webb.
  184. >The black sheep
  185. Fuck you man I won't do what you tell me! But- if I lick your boots clean will you please not thrash me as hard?
  186. These are the true ideological radicals who vote Democratic out of feigned neccessity. They think unions are corrupt and in bed with big business, and thus the boomer parents are deluded by the Left-Right paradigm. They think the Sugar Daddy corporations ("Porky") are the warmongering devil, and must be smashed, the means of production taken back. They despise their liberal, socially democratic, identity politics siblings/cousins as red herrings from the 'real issues'. /leftypol/, incarnate, these anarchists and commies split between the Dems, Green party, various third parties and not voting, but will probably gain more traction the more the DNC starts to fracture.
  187. >>
  188.  Anonymous (ID: mXILKf3k)  01/24/16(Sun)23:34:14 No.61967620▶>>61968332 >>61968865
  189. >>61965205 (OP)
  190. /pol/ should do its best to aggravate differences between the democratic factions.
  192. The obvious vehicle for this is the fact that Bernie is a white male (and he will promote this to hide his Judaism).
  194. thus we should encourage tweets like
  195. #notanotherman
  196. #feelthemysogyny
  197. #itsherturn
  199. etc
  200. etc
  201. etc
  203. democrats had another similar battle in 2008 and they still won the presidency, but if you trigger the right group with the right meme the wounds will never heal.
  204. >>
  205.  Anonymous (ID: FHAX4KxX)  01/24/16(Sun)23:34:21 No.61967630▶>>61974520
  206. >>61966025
  207. Trumps entire platform is that it doesnt matter what they say they want in the end their donors will get what their donors want. Take Obamacare it was suppose to be an American style Universal health care program with a public option to keep the insurance companies honest. What we got was a law that forces people to buy Insurance. Its like the Insurance lobby wrote the fucking law.
  208. >>
  209.  Anonymous (ID: QfuwpHae)  01/24/16(Sun)23:35:48 No.61967726▶>>61969154
  210. >>61965287
  211. no but Sanders voters will have a hissyfit, and end up voting for nobody, thus handing Trump the win on a platter
  212. >>
  213.  Anonymous (ID: 5B1jY6AE)  01/24/16(Sun)23:36:55 No.61967798▶
  214. File: B_ERdKCUwAAAXDQ.jpg (54 KB, 592x790)
  215. 54 KB
  216. >>61967470
  217. Why is it always the fucking Jews?
  218. >>
  219.  Anonymous (ID: 1NW4I4gx)  01/24/16(Sun)23:38:18 No.61967908▶
  220. >>61965287
  221. Hillary is unlikable enough that Sanders actually has a chance with his leftist talking points.
  223. They also genuinely believe that people should only make x amount of money and etc
  224. >>
  225.  Anonymous (ID: oHc4t1Ku)  01/24/16(Sun)23:38:40 No.61967933▶
  226. >>61966612
  227. honestly one of the best possible scenarios.
  228. >>
  229.  Anonymous (ID: DO4iXdWF)  01/24/16(Sun)23:39:23 No.61967990▶
  230. >>61965287
  231. Of course not, but if he drags out the primary, his supporters will be pissed off when the DNC pulls strings to make sure Hillary is the nominee, and then they will stay home in November.
  232. >>
  233.  Anonymous (ID: z7iANKA4)  01/24/16(Sun)23:40:51 No.61968085▶>>61968865
  234. >>61966972
  235. The DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz (IIRC the RNC chair retains neutrality until the party nomination)
  236. >personally endorsed Hillary
  237. >personally threw Sanders claims of unfairness under the bus
  238. >threw the entire DNC campaign budget at Hilldog, and dipped into some 'charitable' funds as well
  240. The party is already in shambles, because its establishment is serving too many masters.
  242. After this election cycle, both fucking Committees are begin hung.
  244. The RNC and Koch Machine, and private interests are probably going to see an overhaul as well if Trump wins.
  245. >Throwing money away at a failed Dynasty Candidate, the failed 'consultancy' industry, Karl Rove meltdown scaled x20
  246. >Goldman et al trying to buy candidates to fill their cabinet will company men
  247. >Pro amnesty, pro immigration, pro globalization groups infecting the party in the name of 'libertarianism', even though there's nothing libertarian about being at the whim of other people, their cultures, and their governments
  248. >The more general smattering of lobbyists and special interest groups BTFO
  249. >>
  250.  Anonymous (ID: jfC7YcyU)  01/24/16(Sun)23:44:16 No.61968332▶
  251. >>61967620
  252. This is very true, I've been thinking for a long time that maybe us /pol/acks could perform a splinter cell operation that would intensify the hate between sanders and hilldog voters. #itsherturn would be very condescending and aggravating to the average sanders supporter. Add that to the fact that Hilldog already bought the DNC so shes already has the nomination warpoed up, and then you have virtually won the election for Trump. Why you ask? Because if sanders goes, his old supporters will either be feel so betrayed that they won't vote for shillary or they'll be so pissed off they'll vote for Trump to spite Hillary. Honestly if Sanders loses we would get a lot of new support from old sanders supporters. It may sound shocking but Trump and Sanders have a surprising amount of middle ground between them
  253. >>
  254.  Anonymous (ID: 7NNP9a2l)  01/24/16(Sun)23:44:38 No.61968355▶
  255. >>61965205 (OP)
  256. >Bernie Sanders, is unelectable.
  257. I'm leaning hillary, but sanders generally beats trump pretty soundly in head-to-head polls.
  259. I mean, the guy seems like he ought to be unelectable, but this is 2016...
  260. >>
  261.  Anonymous (ID: 7Ibbdcmf)  01/24/16(Sun)23:44:44 No.61968361▶>>61968599 >>61968794
  262. you guys should get hillary in and sanders out by appealing to cunts with the "it's high time we had a woman president" so that trump can completely stump her
  264. i think that sanders is more of a threat to trump than hillary is and will make it less likely for a trump presidency
  266. also: so sorry america
  267. >>
  268.  Anonymous (ID: jfC7YcyU)  01/24/16(Sun)23:48:16 No.61968599▶>>61968681
  269. >>61968361
  270. I agree, however in one of Trumps last rallies he stated that he would love to run against Sanders. He seems very confident that Sanders would be easy for him, I assume because of Trumps knowledge on economy and business, something Sanders is very lacking in
  271. >>
  272.  Anonymous (ID: 7Ibbdcmf)  01/24/16(Sun)23:49:32 No.61968681▶
  273. >>61968599
  274. yeah it's a cinch either way but i want to see hillary get utterly SCHLONGED over and over in the lead up to 2017
  276. and also i want to see reddit and the redditor mods btfo for eternity
  277. >>
  278.  Anonymous (ID: 8mYrzDEV)  01/24/16(Sun)23:51:11 No.61968788▶
  279. >>61965287
  280. He's like Ron Paul for lefties, it's kinda cute.
  281. >>
  282.  Anonymous (ID: SX6DaKUV)  01/24/16(Sun)23:51:14 No.61968794▶>>61968908
  283. >>61968361
  284. You underestimate the stupidity of women voters.
  285. >>
  286.  Anonymous (ID: z7iANKA4)  01/24/16(Sun)23:52:10 No.61968865▶>>61969567
  287. File: OPERATION HARDHAT 3.png (3.46 MB, 3132x2012)
  288. 3.46 MB
  289. >>61968085 (You)
  290. Meant to say
  291. >Throwing money away at a failed Dynasty Candidate, exposing the failed 'consultancy' industry, leaving them nothing but a warehouse full of guac bowls, leading to Karl Rove meltdown scaled x20
  292. >>61967620
  293. Nigga the real wedge is between the union democrats and their unions, and both the unions members and union establishment against the LGBTAGBLMFEMENFOXKINBBC4US bloc.
  295. First the workers have to stop union heads like Trumka from flooding the labor market with illegals
  299. Then they're going to aggressively push the union to push their contacts for more media time and academic focus on them, which is now focused on the freakshows.
  301. Then the union bloc is probably going to draw a line in the sand between themselves and the rest.
  303. Pic related, I tried to meme it into existence but got bored of it.
  304. >>
  305.  Anonymous (ID: ZhJ1GR4j)  01/24/16(Sun)23:52:24 No.61968876▶>>61972152
  306. >>61965742
  307. >>61967301
  308. so much this. I will become politically active 100% for trump if hildog is the nominee (which is almost a sure thing)
  310. is somehow feel the bern pulls through i wont really care that much.
  311. >>
  312.  Anonymous (ID: 7Ibbdcmf)  01/24/16(Sun)23:52:53 No.61968908▶
  313. >>61968794
  314. i know the cunt vote has basically destroyed democracy
  316. but maybe they'll see sense without us beating it into them :DD
  318. a lot of women like trump
  319. >>
  320.  Anonymous (ID: 9IMGbNmP)  01/24/16(Sun)23:54:11 No.61968993▶>>61969144
  321. >>61965287
  322. are you not aware that Hilary is a bitch and actually wants to cause the people harm vs trump and Bernie who would just hurt the people by accident or outside factors
  323. >>
  324.  Anonymous (ID: jUCvGBgh)  01/24/16(Sun)23:54:13 No.61968996▶
  325. File: 1310483412100.jpg (34 KB, 413x395)
  326. 34 KB
  327. >mfw liberals talk about the Republicans getting what they deserve for pandering to the religious right and southern whites
  328. >meanwhile the democratic party is imploding as the limousine liberals are getting assfucked by their own creation of SJWs and niggers
  330. what's wrong goldstein? you didn't think jamal would turn on you after destroying all their enemies.
  331. >>
  332.  Anonymous (ID: JJ0OlGaa)  01/24/16(Sun)23:55:14 No.61969070▶>>61969567
  333. >>61966751 (You)
  335. democrats are funded by rich european communists, who also own the rnc and push liberal bullshit under the conservative banner
  336. >>
  337.  Anonymous (ID: JJ0OlGaa)  01/24/16(Sun)23:56:24 No.61969144▶
  338. >>61968993
  339. nobody us taking Clinton seriously, she should throw in the towel before the kek magic unfolds in her beaverbox
  340. >>
  341.  Anonymous (ID: s8OQqV6F)  01/24/16(Sun)23:56:32 No.61969154▶
  342. >>61967726
  343. I know some Americans who would vote for Sanders first, then Trump if Sanders doesn't win.
  345. At least something's gonna happen with Trump even if he stands against everything you represent.
  346. >>
  347.  Anonymous (ID: l8xirSkN)  01/24/16(Sun)23:56:54 No.61969178▶>>61969392
  348. dems are a bunch of drama queens.
  350. They played this same "muh party is ripping apart (my anus)" when obammy and shillary were fighting for the nomination. They'll just re-coagulate when one is decided since many of them will never vote for the other party's guy.
  351. >>
  352.  Anonymous (ID: jUCvGBgh)  01/24/16(Sun)23:58:17 No.61969258▶>>61969829
  353. >>61967470
  354. there are two types of jews.
  356. 1. Mastermind merchants who count their shekels while pumping lefty messages to the public so the goyim won't catch on to them.
  358. 2. Brainwashed SJW who actually bought into the bullshit their own kind were pushing and have transcended into cuckdom.
  360. Bernie is the second type.
  361. >>
  362.  Anonymous (ID: Tnm7wXmM)  01/24/16(Sun)23:59:36 No.61969352▶>>61970055
  363. >>61965205 (OP)
  364. It's barely a civil war. It's basically a repeat of 2008 where Hillary gets shlonged yet again
  365. >>
  366.  Anonymous (ID: jUCvGBgh)  01/25/16(Mon)00:00:07 No.61969392▶
  367. >>61969178
  368. except Obama and Hillary were the exact same, they didn't even disagree on issues. Bernie is the embodiment of what the Democrats have been pretending to be.
  369. >>
  370.  Anonymous (ID: Srd8HoW3)  01/25/16(Mon)00:00:17 No.61969403▶>>61969705
  371. The Democrat Party would cease to exist if the Rust Belt "union democrats" ceased their support of the DNC. I'm hoping this election, through Trump's power of broadcasting how faggoty the leadership of everything is, finally makes those states understand that their Democrat Party died decades ago and sewed the seeds of their current poverty.
  373. Take that away and all you have is California's SJW which isn't enough for them to have a significant say in anything nationally ever again.
  374. >>
  375.  Anonymous (ID: 9GhxTKK7)  01/25/16(Mon)00:01:08 No.61969465▶
  376. >>61965287
  377. From my limited samle size from lib channels on youtube ...
  378. If Hillary wins primaries, there are a sizeable number of people who will vote trump just so he can embarass himself and ensure a dem in the near future.
  379. The atheist community has been especially loud on this issue, having recently come under fire from feminists trying to assimilate them into their rakes
  380. >>
  381.  Anonymous (ID: bukmZQFJ)  01/25/16(Mon)00:01:36 No.61969499▶>>61969626 >>61972303
  382. >>61965205 (OP)
  383. >they have two candidates in a primary
  386. >>
  387.  Anonymous (ID: z7iANKA4)  01/25/16(Mon)00:02:38 No.61969567▶>>61974850
  388. File: OPHH.png (30 KB, 542x474)
  389. 30 KB
  390. >>61968865 (You)
  391. BTW pic related is the info for anyone bored, autistic and NEET enough to want to continue this.
  393. >>61969070
  394. Funny thing is, the Left says the same thing
  395. >democrats are funded by rich global capitalist, who also own the rnc and push neoliberal bullshit under the liberal banner
  396. >>
  397.  Anonymous (ID: Srd8HoW3)  01/25/16(Mon)00:03:42 No.61969626▶
  398. >>61969499
  399. Considering the DNC reformulated itself in 1980 so they always have just one candidate through "Super Delegates" this is essentially a Civil War for them, yes.
  400. >>
  401.  Anonymous (ID: z7iANKA4)  01/25/16(Mon)00:05:04 No.61969705▶
  402. File: 1431735435874.gif (468 KB, 465x263)
  403. 468 KB
  404. >>61969403
  405. This anon gets it.
  406. >>
  407.  Anonymous (ID: 9IMGbNmP)  01/25/16(Mon)00:06:34 No.61969829▶>>61969905
  408. >>61969258
  409. what about the religious ones in israel
  410. >>
  411.  Anonymous (ID: jUCvGBgh)  01/25/16(Mon)00:08:03 No.61969905▶
  412. >>61969829
  413. The first ones love israel, the second ones hate it.
  414. >>
  415.  Anonymous (ID: Ei3ymseG)  01/25/16(Mon)00:10:21 No.61970049▶
  416. >>61965205 (OP)
  417. >Implying this isn't just 2008 all over again because Hillary is generally hated by everyone on all parts of the political spectrum.
  418. >>
  419.  Anonymous (ID: ieuxMU6d)  01/25/16(Mon)00:10:24 No.61970055▶>>61970847
  420. >>61969352
  422. The difference back then was between two people with different personalities and similar policy positions and their branding of identity politics: gurrrl power versus WE WILLZ BE PRESIDENTZ, Obama won but low-key still despises Hillary
  425. Sanders versus Hillary is much more about policy and vision than personality (especially because both of them have terrible ones).
  427. Personally I hope both parties go down in flames.
  428. >>
  429.  Anonymous (ID: YW+IuiN5)  01/25/16(Mon)00:11:14 No.61970110▶>>61970847
  430. lol, they call her "HRC" instead of Hillary
  431. >>
  432.  Anonymous (ID: z7iANKA4)  01/25/16(Mon)00:15:28 No.61970361▶>>61970768
  433. >>61967459
  434. not that guy, but here are the general problems
  436. >>61966612
  437. >Hillary loses tons of support to bernie
  438. >Wasserman-Schultz, Schumer, Reid, and Pelosi realize that they can't let this happen, he's too anti banker and against them
  440. All very reasonable
  441. >democrats run the most establishment yet likable candidates they have, possibly Al Gore or Joe Biden
  442. This hasn't happened since 1932 IIRC. While possible doing so would put the party in irreparable chaos.
  444. >Bernie Sanders goes independent, splitting the vote and allowing The Donald to win
  445. Being that he was independent, and then threw out his independent status to join as a Democrat, to go back to being independent or go a third party would make him lose legitimacy even more, and would screw things up with his senate committee placements and future campaigning.
  447. Furthermore I think bernie was always running at 70%, since he can always go back to the Senate and do his thing there.
  449. >dems get both Trumped and Berned.
  450. I think this will happen regardless
  452. >it is now January 20th 2017 and Donald Trump announces that he is making Bernie Sanders Secretary of Health and Human Services
  453. Prob not going to happen due to their ideological differences, the lack of what Bern has to offer, and because he would prefer working in the Senate.
  455. >"I was on his side all along" says Secretary Sanders
  456. Lost all legitimacy in politics forever.
  458. >neo liberals destroyed forever
  459. Ironically you're correct, in that Trump and Sanders are both opposed to the neo-liberal factions within their parties, but neoliberalism is
  460. >globalization
  461. >lowered regulations and barriers to entry, esp in finance and banking
  462. >mass immigration
  463. >mass privatization of public resources for better or worse
  464. >safety net removal
  466. i.e. mainstream right wing economic policies.
  467. >>
  468.  Anonymous (ID: 7Csq0DTI)  01/25/16(Mon)00:22:02 No.61970768▶>>61971489 >>61971513
  469. >>61970361 (You)
  470. I'm curious as to why I don't see more about this.
  472. Left v. Right - false dichotomy.
  474. Neoliberalism v. Anti-globalist - real conflict.
  476. Identifying both Trump and Sanders as the only (if sincere) candidates that at least approximate something like an anti-globalist position.
  478. Is that kind of analysis not /pol/ friendly?
  479. >>
  480.  Anonymous (ID: z7iANKA4)  01/25/16(Mon)00:23:25 No.61970847▶>>61971489
  481. >>61970110
  482. You can see the delusion.
  483. Hillary calls herself simply "H."
  484. Her supporters call her HRC, trying to meme a new TJ, TR, FDR, LBJ into existence
  485. >>61970055
  486. Sanders is like Nick Clegg in the UK. His student/freakshow supporters are a distinct and large enough bloc to be a viable party of their own if they broke away, but not large enough to be anything but a spoiler.
  488. >Personally I hope both parties go down in flames.
  489. Night of long knives 2.0 comes in 2017.
  490. >>
  491.  Anonymous (ID: eTOK5ao2)  01/25/16(Mon)00:31:12 No.61971356▶
  492. >>61967223
  493. This election is like a soap opera. I'm expecting someone to jumpba shark. It would literally take one candidate shooting another on live television to surprise me.
  494. >>
  495.  Anonymous (ID: ieuxMU6d)  01/25/16(Mon)00:33:24 No.61971489▶
  496. >>61970768
  498. I think thats pretty accurate desu. I'm not a lefty, but I have a certain amount of respect for the old school "no war but the class war" style left, before the 1960's cucked them.
  500. I would welcome the return of a pro-worker, anti-globalist (trade+immigration), anti-identity politics left as an honest opposition of sorts.
  502. >>61970847 (You)
  504. I can't see anybody but the establishment candidate win, it'll just take both parties through the gutter to do it though
  505. >>
  506.  Anonymous (ID: z7iANKA4)  01/25/16(Mon)00:33:42 No.61971513▶
  507. >>61970768
  508. IDK. I try to enter the economics debates on here with some economists on the right and left against globalization, or even suggest that that the price increase for goods and services in the US couldn't possibly increase too much (especially since our birth rates are fairly low) per capita if we implement some very modest restrictions, but they keep spouting back
  509. >muh comparative advantage
  511. as if the underlying fundamentals are the same as they were in 18th century Europe, as if we're talking about Flemish wool and Portuguese wine but whole industries vanishing within a blink of an eye, and as if we are assuming a level playing field - regulatory or monetarily- which its not, and disregarding all the security and military ramifications of globalization which can out-value any theoretical economic ones in a vacuum . Then they go back to
  514. >hurr Keynes wuz dumb
  515. >durr Hayek was a shill
  516. (Meanwhile not understanding that most economists today accept the work of those previous of the NeoClassical or Keynesian school, but disagree on predictive and descriptive power of models)
  517. >>
  518.  Anonymous (ID: f8ane4Co)  01/25/16(Mon)00:35:28 No.61971629▶
  519. File: wutll.jpg (77 KB, 598x465)
  520. 77 KB
  521. >>61966612
  522. lol this is the most unlikely to happen scenario ever
  523. >>
  524.  Anonymous (ID: kmtMZB3q)  01/25/16(Mon)00:43:39 No.61972152▶>>61972581 >>61977115
  525. >>61968876
  527. you should though, because he will bankrupt the country. obama more than trebled our debt to 18 trillion. the fed is keeping our inflation artificially low while it can just so we don't default. his spending will destroy us. His rationale is based on lies anyway. CNBC money reported in 2012 that the rich pay more than 50% of our taxes already, and that the poorest actually pay a negative rate, once you consider their endowments and welfare. bernie sanders will bankrupt us. It is your duty as a citizen to go vote, and your duty before the spirit of the founders to elect trump.
  528. >>
  529.  Anonymous (ID: YOt758fQ)  01/25/16(Mon)00:46:05 No.61972303▶
  530. >>61969499
  531. Well there IS a pretty stark divide between the two candidates and each are pulling significant support. Maybe they'll regroup when Trump devours one of them.
  532. >>
  533.  Anonymous (ID: Fm36eqJk)  01/25/16(Mon)00:47:30 No.61972400▶
  534. >>61965287
  535. the establishment will kill sanders before he gets close to the white house no one fucks with supercorporations
  536. >>
  537.  Anonymous (ID: ZBoS8xWI)  01/25/16(Mon)00:48:23 No.61972454▶>>61972759
  538. Sanders wants to strip colleges of their ability to function as a court whenever someone screams rape and heavily-audit the fed, establishment dems are fucking terrified of a Sanders presidency because he's an old-school liberal in the worst possible way for them
  539. >>
  540.  Anonymous (ID: ZhJ1GR4j)  01/25/16(Mon)00:50:21 No.61972581▶
  541. >>61972152
  542. youre probably correct, i think for a while id just be reeling from the relief that hillary wasnt in the race anymore.
  544. Then the desire to make america great again would return fairly quickly.
  545. >>
  546.  Anonymous (ID: XmnTtni3)  01/25/16(Mon)00:50:48 No.61972610▶
  547. >One, Hillary Clinton, looked like a sure winner and a shoo-in to be the next president. The other, Bernie Sanders, is unelectable.
  549. Sanders would get destroyed by Trump but at least he would last until November.
  551. Meanwhile Clinton will probably be indicted before the summer.
  552. >>
  553.  Anonymous (ID: Srd8HoW3)  01/25/16(Mon)00:53:35 No.61972759▶>>61973806 >>61974485
  554. >>61972454
  555. Why should colleges be allowed to operate as a court?
  556. >>
  557.  Anonymous (ID: D4+CgYH4)  01/25/16(Mon)00:54:46 No.61972820▶>>61974850
  558. >>61965205 (OP)
  559. We need to cause the party to split, but how?
  560. >>
  561.  Anonymous (ID: wJ4mvOn2)  01/25/16(Mon)00:56:19 No.61972916▶
  562. File: stern_anime_face.png (18 KB, 324x304)
  563. 18 KB
  564. >Goodman
  565. >>
  566.  Anonymous (ID: Tnm7wXmM)  01/25/16(Mon)01:03:59 No.61973398▶
  567. >>61966612
  568. had a laugh but not gonna happen lol
  569. >>
  570.  Anonymous (ID: iD4ALx3k)  01/25/16(Mon)01:04:39 No.61973433▶
  571. >>61965287
  572. Clinton Accident Syndrome
  573. >>
  574.  Anonymous (ID: ZBoS8xWI)  01/25/16(Mon)01:11:06 No.61973806▶
  575. >>61972759
  576. Because if you take a rape case to the cops, they get actual courts involved with all the usual things like 'due process', when you let the college handle it, they try you with a jury they hand-pick, and remove all ways to prove yourself innocent, and the accused loses 99% of the time. They don't get arrested or thrown in jail though, and usually just get expelled, so that highlights the fact they're mostly just major unpersoning shows. Colleges also pull all sorts of legal bullshit to stop expelled students from taking the matter to real courts
  578. So no shit dems don't want anyone touching the most effective way for whiny students to axe someone they don't like, because the cases fall the fuck apart when actual investigations happen
  581. >>
  582.  Anonymous (ID: EVfF8DLZ)  01/25/16(Mon)01:11:42 No.61973845▶
  583. File: 1453524095683.png (675 KB, 4750x2693)
  584. 675 KB
  585. It's simple. Find a common cause between the two, but elevate ones trivial importance over the other (i have a vagina, its time for a woman to do this, etc) so the sanders supporters can get aggravated.
  587. Aggravation via a subtle 'redpill' that even simple minds can question (hey, im not sexist but what does being a woman have to do with being presidential?) type shit would guarantee a split.
  589. Just look at what happens in all communist parties. There are several sub-parties below the chairman of the group that all have very slight differences that NONE can agree upon but do not want to compromise. Read up on communist parties - or just open your damn eyes to all the different hypocritical liberal principles which cannot stand on their own, and be true to history.
  590. >>
  591.  Anonymous (ID: z7iANKA4)  01/25/16(Mon)01:21:58 No.61974485▶
  592. >>61972759
  593. Well private institutions have their own systems of doing this, especially when it comes to alleged violations of campus policies. They have their own private enforcement arm (school security) can set up their own private investigative commissions, and can set up whichever punishment they see fit.
  595. The student signed up to this system contractually by literally on the dotted line when applying for college, and then being accepted.
  597. Thing is
  598. 1. This private is usually not mutually exclusive to using the court system. An alleged defendant can go to through the police, the police hopefully gather enough evidence to give to the DA, the DA does his best in trial or both parties try to reach a settlement.
  600. (Mattress girl for example, when the cops and DA said
  601. >We'll look into it, but know you washed away your evidence and we are way backed up with other investigations
  603. Spouted off that the Uni System and the public servants alike
  605. 2. The problem comes when the private and public arbitration systems clash. The institution may have a party sign a gag order, or accept whatever ruling and/or sentence without complaint or going to the courts, or threaten the student with expulsion.
  607. 3. The second problem occurs with the legal injury caused to either party when the univeristy does its kangaroo investigation, trial, and punishment, either in
  608. >a. The very case being brought to light in the first place, giving bad PR to the defendant for example
  609. In which case the uni can be sued in civil court for damages
  610. >b. The sentence being too overkill or even illegal
  611. In which case the uni can also be taken to criminal court iirc
  613. The problem is its expensive to do, and most people leave it alone instead of dragging it out, let the uni walk all over them.
  614. >>
  615.  Anonymous (ID: rUohZObI)  01/25/16(Mon)01:22:32 No.61974520▶
  616. >>61967630
  617. >Its like the Insurance lobby wrote the fucking law
  618. They did
  619. No really
  620. >>
  621.  Anonymous (ID: Upv5EQoG)  01/25/16(Mon)01:22:53 No.61974543▶
  622. File: shilarious.jpg (10 KB, 136x182)
  623. 10 KB
  624. mfw murifats will comeback months later to /pol/ crying no matter who wins those elections
  626. >three sides of the same coin
  627. >>
  628.  Anonymous (ID: eV3NOvwa)  01/25/16(Mon)01:23:43 No.61974596▶
  629. >>61965287
  630. it's simple we meme magic him until he wins, but not too hard bb.
  631. >>
  632.  Anonymous (ID: 106dc56L)  01/25/16(Mon)01:24:45 No.61974647▶>>61977149
  633. >>61965287
  634. why do people act like Hillary is unstoppable when she already lost to Obama?
  635. >>
  636.  Anonymous (ID: 106dc56L)  01/25/16(Mon)01:26:25 No.61974751▶
  637. >>61967470
  638. because Sanders is openly Socialist instead of hiding it like globalists do.
  639. >>
  640.  Anonymous (ID: eSLYS1af)  01/25/16(Mon)01:27:03 No.61974790▶
  641. File: hillary-clinton-war-on-girls.jpg (64 KB, 627x350)
  642. 64 KB
  643. You call yourself a feminist?
  645. You call yourself a supporter of rights for women?
  647. I spit in your face if you support this evil woman. She defended a child rapist. She is the enabler and silent accomplice to her sexual predator husband.
  649. Any woman who supports Clinton is a TRAITOR. You sicken me and I spit right in your face!
  650. >>
  651.  Anonymous (ID: z7iANKA4)  01/25/16(Mon)01:28:10 No.61974850▶
  652. File: OPERATION HARDHAT 1.png (43 KB, 683x675)
  653. 43 KB
  654. >>61972820 see >>61969567 (You)
  655. Sure, shilling.
  656. but just saying.
  658. >Mass immigration,illegal immigrant amnesty, migrant worker protections supported by union heads
  659. Union members revolt against their unions.
  661. >Union money being spent on freakshow propaganda
  662. Jim Webbs revolt against the freakshow
  664. >Greens, commies, socialists, and anarchists get a social media campaign against the identity politics freakshow
  665. The David Graebers revolt against the Laurie Pennys
  667. >Pit the remaining limousine liberals and hard hat dems on good terms against each other, also pinkos vs freakshows over sanders vs hillary (socialism vs feminism)
  669. >>
  670.  Anonymous (ID: avcT0RSv)  01/25/16(Mon)01:34:32 No.61975195▶
  671. >>61966612
  672. Bernie would never break off.
  674. First of all he has clearly said multiple times he would not go third party and second and most important factor of all.
  676. Sanders is a mega cuck with no spine. He bows like he is praying to allah at the whim of Hillary and the party.
  677. >>
  678.  Anonymous (ID: Upv5EQoG)  01/25/16(Mon)01:36:45 No.61975332▶
  679. [Embed]
  681. HEE HAAA
  682. E
  683. E
  684. .
  685. H
  686. A
  687. A
  688. >>
  689.  Anonymous (ID: gEES6a2l)  01/25/16(Mon)01:39:04 No.61975465▶
  690. >>61965287
  691. he doesn't need to.
  692. He just needs to be enough competition, for long enough, that she fights dirty, and people become disillusioned with her.
  693. Bernie supporters will sit out the election like Ron Paul supporters did last time, hillary will lose, and then the democratic party will shift and elect more sanders-esque members in an attempt to win back his style of supporters.
  694. >>
  695.  Anonymous (ID: VI90T00Y)  01/25/16(Mon)01:43:45 No.61975692▶>>61975748 >>61975850 >>61976256
  696. Bernie will not win, period. But his supporters are being driven into a fervor. When Hillary gets the nomination, they will revolt.
  697. >>
  698.  Anonymous (ID: hpVG/pAh)  01/25/16(Mon)01:44:59 No.61975748▶
  699. >>61975692
  700. >they will revolt
  702. They won't do shit. They're voting for Sanders. They may issue an apology to Clinton for ever doubting her before casting their votes towards her.
  703. >>
  704.  Anonymous (ID: 9Utjl8YJ)  01/25/16(Mon)01:47:04 No.61975850▶>>61976151 >>61976256
  705. >>61975692
  706. Bernie will endorse Hillary and tell his supporters to vote for her. Because globalist neoliberalism is superior to Trump's evil racist protectionism for the workers.
  707. >>
  708.  Anonymous (ID: QR0kxWXm)  01/25/16(Mon)01:48:04 No.61975902▶>>61977675
  709. >>61965205 (OP)
  710. >USA will have 3, maybe 4 major parties in a year
  711. >one might actually fit my ideology
  712. >>
  713.  Anonymous (ID: bukmZQFJ)  01/25/16(Mon)01:52:33 No.61976151▶
  714. >>61975850
  716. Unfortunately this, I'm guessing. The fact that he refuses to attack Hillary on extremely legitimate issues because he wants a "clean campaign" only proves what a piece of shit he is. I can't believe the Bernie people are so retarded that they think such actions are principled.
  717. >>
  718.  Anonymous (ID: wnueh7z6)  01/25/16(Mon)01:54:27 No.61976256▶
  719. >>61975692
  720. >>61975850
  721. if bernie doesn't get the nomination I don't think his supporters will vote for hillary, regardless if he endorses her or not.
  723. I imagine a good portion of his supporters are just weed lmao fags
  724. >>
  725.  Anonymous (ID: 2lRgoj/j)  01/25/16(Mon)02:02:20 No.61976674▶
  726. >The Democrats are where the Republicans were in 2008.
  727. >>
  728.  Anonymous (ID: cWNaNpzA)  01/25/16(Mon)02:04:13 No.61976766▶>>61977391
  729. >>61965287
  730. He doesn't have to... all he needs to do is win enough primaries that he becomes confident enough to stage an Independent run when he loses the nomination.
  732. Then we'll have Clinton, Sanders, Bloomberg, Webb, and Stein all splitting up the left wing vote.
  733. >>
  734.  Anonymous (ID: p8UTAmWq)  01/25/16(Mon)02:05:11 No.61976812▶
  735. >>61965205 (OP)
  736. Hillary will be sacraficed before the elections
  737. >>
  738.  Anonymous (ID: dY4AXpo0)  01/25/16(Mon)02:06:45 No.61976876▶
  739. >>61965205 (OP)
  740. >linking huffpo without using archive
  741. >>
  742.  Anonymous (ID: dY4AXpo0)  01/25/16(Mon)02:11:31 No.61977115▶
  743. >>61972152
  744. >implying Sanders will get anything past Congress
  745. Hillary would via sneaky political maneuvers. Sanders wouldn't get anything he wants.
  746. >>
  747.  Anonymous (ID: gEES6a2l)  01/25/16(Mon)02:11:59 No.61977149▶>>61981219
  748. >>61974647
  749. because the DNC machine wanted Obama
  750. now they want hillary.
  751. they'll do anything to avoid running some senior citizen male who passes for white.
  752. The closest they've gotten is about 140 years ago, when they nominated Samuel J Tilden, at the age of 62.
  753. As for anyone over the age of 65...That'd be James Bucanan in 1856.
  754. 160 years ago, pre civil war.
  755. >>
  756.  Anonymous (ID: B+df+xj3)  01/25/16(Mon)02:13:05 No.61977213▶
  757. >>61965287
  758. yeah, morons who are finally old enough to vote do.
  760. clinton wins = she won't get every sanders supporter because they like HIM, so more democratic voters will stay home or jump ship and vote trump, meaning trump wins in a landslide
  762. sanders wins = who cares, trump wins in a landslide anyway
  763. >>
  764.  Anonymous (ID: wRtSIEUY)  01/25/16(Mon)02:14:15 No.61977280▶
  765. They have also destroyed Hillary from the 1,000,000s of hit pieces they release in order to prop up Bernie. Imagine if Bernie loses LMAO.
  767. They have cucked their own party.
  768. >>
  769.  Anonymous (ID: bukmZQFJ)  01/25/16(Mon)02:16:13 No.61977391▶>>61978072
  770. >>61976766
  771. Bloomberg said he will only run if Hillary goes down.
  772. >>
  773.  Anonymous (ID: gEES6a2l)  01/25/16(Mon)02:21:37 No.61977675▶
  774. >>61975902
  775. it depends on exactly how this election goes.
  776. If Bloomberg runs independent, and picks someone like Webb for his running mate, a lot of "pragmatic" dems, and a hell of a lot o independents will gravitate toward him, and we'll probably see "the new progressive party" closer to what Teddy Roosevelt had.
  777. He won't win, but if he can get at least a state or two, it'll be enough to put a foothold on an entire new party.
  778. Whether we get a 4th is entirely up to who wins.
  780. If Hillary gets the nomination, it'll ensure a boost for the "anti-establishment" bloomberg. No real shakeup beyond what I've laid out. Even if she wins the presidency, the republicans will probably just have to admit they're too splintered to win, and rally behind a new, young face for 2020.
  782. If Sanders gets the nomination, then it's really just a sign that the old democrats are dead. If he gets the nomination, you can say goodbye to Bloomberg winning ANY states. Moderate Dems just won't show up to vote.
  783. Now if he wins the presidency though...
  784. You'll see some major fracturing. The rank and file dems in the senate won't follow him, it'll split them apart. The republicans will be BTFO cause they somehow lost to a socialist. They'll pull hard to the center in the mid-terms, and start compromising, and the fringe right will probably go full on libertarian.
  786. You'll get 4.
  788. My bet though is that Bloomberg will get JUST enough popular vote to ensure hillary loses key states, but never enough to win one himself.
  790. Both parties will be saved, but both will shift more left in the long run.
  791. >>
  792.  Anonymous (ID: gEES6a2l)  01/25/16(Mon)02:28:30 No.61978072▶>>61978270
  793. >>61977391
  794. no, that was just the opinion of a friend of his
  795. he said he'd be forced to run if trump or cruz gets the nomination and has to face sanders, cause there's no way he'd win.
  796. Note, he's basically saying that he would run to basically ensure Trump and Cruz lose.
  797. Because he thinks they cant take on hillary.
  798. but that doesn't mean that if things change in the next few months that he won't think the can take hillary. If her image gets bad enough, and polling comes out that puts her behind cruz OR trump in florida, I can pretty much guarantee he'll enter, even if hillary is the presumptive nominee.
  799. >>
  800.  Anonymous (ID: bukmZQFJ)  01/25/16(Mon)02:32:19 No.61978270▶>>61979853
  801. >>61978072
  803. How would him running hurt the GOP candidate if he is up against Hillary?
  804. >>
  805.  Anonymous (ID: /VH+tfu4)  01/25/16(Mon)02:36:45 No.61978486▶
  806. File: normietears.jpg (10 KB, 225x225)
  807. 10 KB
  808. I can't remember how long ago it was but another anon suggested getting hillary campaign stickers, (you can get one free of her website), and slap them over bernie stickers.
  810. >sewing the seeds of discord
  811. >>
  812.  Anonymous (ID: gEES6a2l)  01/25/16(Mon)03:04:33 No.61979853▶
  813. >>61978270
  814. If he thinks hillary is a lost cause.
  815. Basically, a controlled burn.
  816. If hillary gets the nomination despite huge bernie support (let's say it's 55/45) then a lot of dem voters will feel disenfranchised and stay home.
  817. hillary is a shoe in to lose florida, and a few other key states, especially if she gets low voter turnout.
  818. So bloomberg then would just focus on those key swing states, because, say for instance, he runs against Trump. There are serious trump supporters that are no where near conservative. He (thinks) he could take away their votes.
  819. Basically, his stated goal is to enter to bash Trump or cruz.
  820. He'll run no ads against Hillary.
  822. Unless, of course, the FBi suggests indictment.
  823. >>
  824.  Anonymous (ID: aukSZkSY)  01/25/16(Mon)03:32:01 No.61981219▶
  825. >>61977149
  827. But Shillary is almost as old as Sanders, she just doesn't look as ancient
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  838. 4chan
  839. /pol/ - Politically Incorrect
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  843. You cannot reply anymore.
  845. [Return] [Catalog] [Bottom]Archived / 195 / 22 [Update] [Auto]
  846. File: friedrich-august-von-haye(...).jpg (56 KB, 648x444)
  847. 56 KB
  848.  F.A. Hayek Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/22/16(Fri)23:43:44 No.61787219 Archived▶>>61787625 >>61787945 >>61788082 >>61788273 >>61788986 >>61789204 >>61790755 >>61793022 >>61813199
  849. What a genius.
  850. >>
  851.  Anonymous (ID: 1Nyo+dA/)  01/22/16(Fri)23:45:12 No.61787306▶>>61787388
  852. File: hayek sunglasses.jpg (26 KB, 500x328)
  853. 26 KB
  854. >central planning
  855. >2016
  856. >>
  857.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/22/16(Fri)23:46:37 No.61787388▶>>61787793 >>61788273 >>61790746 >>61795788 >>61797227 >>61806273
  858. >>61787306
  860. It's kinda funny how the Trump bandwagon thinks that protectionism works.
  861. >>
  862.  Anonymous (ID: znGuWEfx)  01/22/16(Fri)23:47:30 No.61787445▶>>61787539 >>61787558 >>61788675 >>61789054 >>61789129 >>61789362 >>61798368 >>61799379
  863. Daily reminder that nobody takes Austrian economics seriously in Academia.
  864. >>
  865.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/22/16(Fri)23:49:01 No.61787539▶>>61787804
  866. >>61787445
  868. Yeah, because no one has the guts to do what this man suggested.
  869. >>
  870.  Anonymous (ID: dZxf6dwQ)  01/22/16(Fri)23:49:25 No.61787558▶>>61787749 >>61787958 >>61788757 >>61789054 >>61798368
  871. >>61787445
  872. They don't even take it seriously in the private sector either. It is just a meme made popular by the internet. All mainstream economists generally subscribe to some form of Keynesian thought and/or its many derivatives.
  873. >>
  874.  Anonymous (ID: we6GAIqb)  01/22/16(Fri)23:50:40 No.61787625▶>>61789688
  875. File: 1358672167228.png (518 KB, 2472x987)
  876. 518 KB
  877. >>61787219 (OP)
  878. >>
  879.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/22/16(Fri)23:52:45 No.61787749▶
  880. >>61787558
  882. tell me about the part where mainstream economists follow keynes advice to save when not in a recession
  883. >>
  884.  Anonymous (ID: rV9xJSeI)  01/22/16(Fri)23:53:36 No.61787793▶>>61787992 >>61788654
  885. File: 531.jpg (15 KB, 373x437)
  886. 15 KB
  887. >>61787388
  888. >implying Brazil even has a domestic economy to protect
  890. You don't build a wealthy middle-class economy by buying everything from other countries.
  891. >>
  892.  Anonymous (ID: IjyNKYVZ)  01/22/16(Fri)23:53:50 No.61787804▶>>61787844 >>61789362 >>61792793 >>61809402
  893. >>61787539
  894. Somalia did.
  895. >>
  896.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/22/16(Fri)23:54:24 No.61787844▶>>61790799
  897. >>61787804
  899. >rule of law
  900. >somalia
  902. pick
  903. >>
  904.  Anonymous (ID: I23yfHoO)  01/22/16(Fri)23:55:58 No.61787945▶>>61788118 >>61788408
  905. File: 1450199004365.jpg (87 KB, 736x394)
  906. 87 KB
  907. >>61787219 (OP)
  908. Have some Mises
  909. >>
  910.  Anonymous (ID: 0TIP+26g)  01/22/16(Fri)23:56:13 No.61787958▶>>61788118
  911. >>61787558
  912. Hogwash. Keynes is nothing but a crutch used to justify Marxism.
  913. >>
  914.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/22/16(Fri)23:56:45 No.61787992▶>>61788293
  915. >>61787793
  917. Tell me about the wealthy middle-class of the US in comparison to other countries throughout history while the US kept trade-deficits during most of its history
  918. >>
  919.  Anonymous (ID: NGU9m952)  01/22/16(Fri)23:58:15 No.61788082▶
  920. File: 6494d9a65195279d35717e6d9(...).jpg (26 KB, 446x336)
  921. 26 KB
  922. >>61787219 (OP)
  923. >>
  924.  Anonymous (ID: znGuWEfx)  01/22/16(Fri)23:58:53 No.61788118▶>>61788225 >>61788564 >>61798633
  925. >>61787958
  926. Spoken like a true economic ignoramus. What is wrong with Keynes again?
  928. >>61787945
  929. Mises is also another meme economist that isn't taken seriously by academia anymore.
  931. Why does /pol/ and the alt-right in general still hold to the economic equivalent of creationism? Neo-liberalism has prevailed in the economics field. Get with the times instead of being ignorant tea-party retards.
  932. >>
  933.  Anonymous (ID: yaHplP08)  01/22/16(Fri)23:59:31 No.61788161▶>>61790058
  934. File: 954898940909.png (226 KB, 1079x577)
  935. 226 KB
  936. >>
  937.  Anonymous (ID: yaHplP08)  01/23/16(Sat)00:00:22 No.61788223▶>>61788503 >>61789087 >>61795853
  938. File: 124567890.png (530 KB, 971x703)
  939. 530 KB
  940. >>
  941.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:00:23 No.61788225▶
  942. >>61788118
  944. >implying that friedman hasn't took his ideas from mont-pellerin society
  945. >>
  946.  Anonymous (ID: 36nzRGS0)  01/23/16(Sat)00:01:06 No.61788273▶>>61788736 >>61788936 >>61789362 >>61790875
  947. >>61787219 (OP)
  948. >>61787388
  950. >Consider this fact: in the period from 1853 to 1953, the economy was in recession or depression fully 40% of the time. Since 1953, that is, since the economy became fully Keynesian, the economy has been in recession only 15% of the time. Moreover, the pre-war recessions were, on average, twice as deep and twice as long as the post-war ones.
  952. >There has been an on-going attempt for the last 30 years to return the economy to its pre-Keynesian status. Since the rise of Margaret Thatcher in 1979 and Ronald Reagan in 1980, the political rhetoric has been about “free markets,” “lower taxes,” “less government interference,” etc. Both Reagan and Thatcher took Fredrick von Hayek as their economic mentor. But the more “Hayekian” the economic rhetoric became, the more Keynesian the economy has actually become; the unintended consequence of Hayek’s policies have been the opposite of what Hayek wanted: larger governments, greater debts, more centralized economic power, and so forth. Keynes’s policies are certainly, as Hayek claimed, a “road to serfdom,” but Hayek’s policies have turned out to be a super-highway to that same dismal destination. Nor is this true just for the United States and Britain. Since the Reagan administration, the World Bank has forced Hayek’s economic policies on all the developing economies, and the results have been uniformly dismal. Indeed, the theories of Hayek have been tested just as much as have the theories of Karl Marx, and with about the same results: more government power, less economic freedom; under neither did the state whither away, but became an all-encompassing behemoth.
  955. >>
  956.  Anonymous (ID: rV9xJSeI)  01/23/16(Sat)00:01:28 No.61788293▶>>61788587 >>61790841
  957. >>61787992
  958. Sit down.
  959. Before the Federal Reserve Act in the US, the Federal government was largely financed through tariff on imports. This kept the manufacturing mostly domestic.
  961. The rise of international corporations changed that. That is who supports the dropping of tariffs. It's a means to increase their markets.
  962. The cheapest labor wins in that scenario.
  963. A middle-class dies when forced to compete with cheap labor.
  964. >>
  965.  Anonymous (ID: 3gJ8km7Q)  01/23/16(Sat)00:03:41 No.61788408▶>>61789054
  966. >>61787945
  967. lol that guy. capitalism and democracy are destroying the west
  968. >>
  969.  Anonymous (ID: uOBnIR4n)  01/23/16(Sat)00:04:53 No.61788503▶
  970. File: misescher.jpg (79 KB, 250x350)
  971. 79 KB
  972. >>61788223
  974. I believe (without cheating) it's
  976. Hayek, Marx, Keynes
  977. Mill, Smith, Mises
  978. and Friedman at the bottom.
  980. Least certain about Mill, extremely certain about the rest.
  981. >>
  982.  Anonymous (ID: ++kz+k/m)  01/23/16(Sat)00:05:28 No.61788537▶>>61788633 >>61789128 >>61810031
  983. Hayek is a Jew.
  985. Keynes agreed with Hitler and criticized the Jewish bankers handling of Germany after WW1.
  986. >>
  987.  Anonymous (ID: I23yfHoO)  01/23/16(Sat)00:05:55 No.61788564▶>>61788878
  988. >>61788118
  989. >isn't taken seriously by academia
  990. You realize that this doesn't mean that these economists are wrong, right?
  992. Women's studies, feminism and SJW crap in general is taken very seriously in academia today.
  993. >>
  994.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:06:23 No.61788587▶>>61789239 >>61790961
  995. >>61788293
  997. Even being financed with tariff's over imported goods, doesn't change the fact that it runned in a trade deficit.
  999. Problem isn't in the trade deficit/surplus, but instead in how governments run debt.
  1000. >>
  1001.  Anonymous (ID: jO9zbwJF)  01/23/16(Sat)00:07:05 No.61788633▶>>61789077 >>61789128 >>61800287
  1002. >>61788537
  1003. Don't try to talk sense into neocon faggots.
  1004. >>
  1005.  Anonymous (ID: 0ak8oRcL)  01/23/16(Sat)00:07:20 No.61788654▶>>61791020
  1006. >>61787793
  1007. >middle-class economy
  1009. just vote for Bernie faggot, you're a left-wing queer
  1010. >>
  1011.  Anonymous (ID: t7UyyNdE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:07:41 No.61788675▶>>61789054 >>61789308
  1012. >>61787445
  1013. Neoclassical economics is still the bedrock of academia. Modern economists believe in essentially the same general results as Austrians, only with rigorous mathematical models instead of philosophy and semantics.
  1014. >>
  1015.  Anonymous (ID: ghjL4sgQ)  01/23/16(Sat)00:07:44 No.61788679▶
  1016. I used to think he was related to Salma Hayek because of the comments saying this.
  1018. I even told my younger sister that when she was alive.
  1020. >Feels embarresed.
  1021. >>
  1022.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:08:31 No.61788736▶>>61788923 >>61788925 >>61788941
  1023. >>61788273
  1025. Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher just mentioned Hayek. They never even followed his policies.
  1027. Selectively diminished taxation over rich and continued to run tons of debt (none of them wanted to do a fiscal reform to cut the expenses leftist governments created before).
  1028. >>
  1029.  Anonymous (ID: QRdBpfZi)  01/23/16(Sat)00:08:53 No.61788757▶>>61788921 >>61789054
  1030. >>61787558
  1031. >They don't even take it seriously in the private sector either.
  1033. This. Hayek and the rest of the Austrian school were, ultimately, nothing but fantasists who's work had no theoretical or empirical justification beyond "That makes sense, I guess". The modern economy is based more around the "new classical" economics which is an attempt to synthesise neoclassical economics with new Keynsian economics.
  1034. >>
  1035.  Anonymous (ID: znGuWEfx)  01/23/16(Sat)00:10:38 No.61788878▶>>61789103 >>61789128 >>61789381 >>61806152
  1036. >>61788564
  1037. Economics is a science. It follows the scientific method; gender and women's studies do not. It's like saying we should take the advice of creationists over evolutionary biologists. Austrian economics is dumb dude. Just let it go.
  1038. >>
  1039.  Anonymous (ID: 0ak8oRcL)  01/23/16(Sat)00:11:19 No.61788921▶>>61789134
  1040. >>61788757
  1041. Hayek wasn't really an "Austrian school" economist, he just happened to be Austrian. To be Austrian school you need to eschew empiricism like a retard.
  1042. >>
  1043.  Anonymous (ID: kTpnFs36)  01/23/16(Sat)00:11:21 No.61788923▶>>61789003 >>61798995
  1044. File: rsz_1429728584054.jpg (41 KB, 477x500)
  1045. 41 KB
  1046. >>61788736
  1048. >t-that wasn't real capitalism
  1050. You know that's the same excuse the gommies give when we tell them the USSR failed, right? "B-but th-that wasn't true communism!"
  1051. >>
  1052.  Anonymous (ID: znGuWEfx)  01/23/16(Sat)00:11:24 No.61788925▶
  1053. >>61788736
  1054. >Reagan
  1055. >Thatcher
  1056. >Good
  1058. LEL
  1059. >>
  1060.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:11:39 No.61788936▶>>61789251
  1061. >>61788273
  1062. >yet another "the economy of the 60s was because of things I support"
  1063. kek
  1064. >>
  1065.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:11:49 No.61788941▶
  1066. >>61788736
  1068. The only reason why the tide shifted towards growth is that they fought inflation by raising interest rates, and get rid of the enterpreneurial deadlock that inflation creates.
  1069. >>
  1070.  Anonymous (ID: G93jgbey)  01/23/16(Sat)00:12:31 No.61788986▶
  1071. >>61787219 (OP)
  1073. Hayek is god-tier, love his thoughts on freedom.
  1074. >>
  1075.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:12:45 No.61789003▶>>61789251
  1076. >>61788923
  1078. Yeah, but I'm not saying that it wasn't true capitalism. I'm saying they didn't do their job when it comes to fiscal policy.
  1080. It only works if you pair up sense in fiscal and monetary policy.
  1081. >>
  1082.  Anonymous (ID: E9c4T8yE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:13:29 No.61789054▶>>61789165 >>61789186
  1083. >>61787445
  1084. >>61787558
  1085. >>61788408
  1086. >>61788675
  1087. >>61788757
  1088. What the fuck am I reading?
  1089. This is some great bait.
  1090. >>
  1091.  Anonymous (ID: uOBnIR4n)  01/23/16(Sat)00:13:47 No.61789077▶
  1092. >>61788633
  1094. The guy you are replying to is actually the neocon cockwrangler.
  1095. >>
  1096.  Anonymous (ID: fe42/7+M)  01/23/16(Sat)00:13:58 No.61789087▶
  1097. >>61788223
  1098. Hayek
  1099. Marx
  1100. Keynes
  1101. Mises
  1102. Friedman
  1103. Smith
  1104. Mill
  1105. >>
  1106.  Anonymous (ID: I23yfHoO)  01/23/16(Sat)00:14:18 No.61789103▶>>61791144
  1107. >>61788878
  1108. As I said before: saying that it's not taken seriously instalaciones academia doesn't prove that Austrian economics is wrong. You seem to be too dumb to understand this.
  1109. >>
  1110.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:14:45 No.61789128▶
  1111. >>61788537
  1112. >>61788633
  1113. >talk sense
  1114. >somehow being jewish disqualifies you from saying anything correct, even if you are in disagreement with other jews and have renounced your faith
  1115. kek
  1117. >neocons
  1118. implying
  1120. >>61788878
  1121. >austrian economics
  1122. >not taken seriously
  1123. pick 1. Although the general theories ("deflation is a good thing!") are disregarded, many of the time-production functions are still in use.
  1124. >>
  1125.  Anonymous (ID: mlgtPZ8e)  01/23/16(Sat)00:14:45 No.61789129▶>>61789232 >>61789311
  1126. >>61787445
  1127. No fuckin shit. The "academia" is full of fuckin marxist cunts that make shit like gender studies a degree.
  1129. Seriously i don't get you people, do you brake your own plates to stimulate the economy or what!?
  1130. >>
  1131.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:14:46 No.61789134▶
  1132. >>61788921
  1134. And this.
  1135. Hayek shifted from its early radical positions in many issues.
  1137. Social security and central banking, to mention a few.
  1138. >>
  1139.  Anonymous (ID: znGuWEfx)  01/23/16(Sat)00:15:17 No.61789165▶
  1140. >>61789054
  1141. >Anyone who disagrees with me is trolling
  1142. >>
  1143.  Anonymous (ID: QRdBpfZi)  01/23/16(Sat)00:15:42 No.61789186▶>>61789601
  1144. >>61789054
  1145. I'm sorry to tell you this anon, but it's true. No one pays any attention to the Austrians, they haven't since the 30's.
  1147. >Source: I work as a quant.
  1148. >>
  1149.  Anonymous (ID: q9jKz0nb)  01/23/16(Sat)00:16:00 No.61789204▶
  1150. >>61787219 (OP)
  1151. Literally what I learned at the end of a financial economics undergraduate program. Everything we learned is most likely bullshit, and a new model will come out soon invalidating everything we know.
  1152. >>
  1153.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:16:36 No.61789232▶
  1154. >>61789129
  1156. >making le jobs will create economic growth and people gonna be happy
  1157. >make everyone dig holes and cover them up
  1159. no wonder ww2 came and you rationed food, it was all about that gdp
  1160. >>
  1161.  Anonymous (ID: fe42/7+M)  01/23/16(Sat)00:16:43 No.61789239▶
  1162. >>61788587
  1163. >doesn't change the fact that it runned in a trade deficit.
  1164. The us ran a trade surplus until well after WWII, when tariffs were lowered to allow european and japanese producers to grow richer.
  1165. >>
  1166.  Anonymous (ID: kTpnFs36)  01/23/16(Sat)00:16:52 No.61789251▶>>61789376 >>61789433 >>61800509 >>61804275
  1167. >>61788936
  1169. >implying the author supports keynesianism
  1171. I'd tell you to read the whole book, but you didn't even read the whole quote I provided, so it'd be useless...
  1173. >>61789003
  1175. Because austerity worked great in Europe, didn't it? Watch this: [Embed]
  1176. >>
  1177.  Anonymous (ID: mlgtPZ8e)  01/23/16(Sat)00:17:49 No.61789308▶>>61789369
  1178. >>61788675
  1179. >mathematical models
  1181. Do you even free market bro!?
  1182. >>
  1183.  Anonymous (ID: znGuWEfx)  01/23/16(Sat)00:17:52 No.61789311▶>>61789953
  1184. >>61789129
  1185. Muh marxist boogeyman. I guess we shouldn't take physicists, biologists, chemists, etc. seriously because liberalism is popular in academia? Lol.
  1187. That's not what Keynes taught. If you actually read Keynes you'd know why he makes so much sense and why so many economists are Keynesian.
  1188. >>
  1189.  Anonymous (ID: luHuTXyJ)  01/23/16(Sat)00:18:43 No.61789362▶
  1190. >>61787445
  1191. >Daily reminder that feminism and critical theory are taken very seriously in Academia
  1192. >>61787804
  1193. >Daily reminder that the reason Somalia is as fucked up as it is today is because it had a communist revolution that destroyed all of the infrastructure
  1194. >>61788273
  1195. >Since the Reagan administration, the World Bank has forced Hayek’s economic policies on all the developing economies, and the results have been uniformly dismal.
  1196. Jesus Christ get and education my Brazilian friend
  1197. >$majorMode=chart$is;shi=t;ly=2003;lb=f;il=t;fs=11;al=30;stl=t;st=t;nsl=t;se=t$wst;tts=C$ts;sp=5.59290322580644;ti=2013$zpv;v=0$inc_x;mmid=XCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj1jiMAkmq1iMg;by=ind$inc_y;mmid=YCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj2tPLxKvvnNPA;by=ind$inc_s;uniValue=8.21;iid=phAwcNAVuyj0XOoBL_n5tAQ;by=ind$inc_c;uniValue=255;gid=CATID0;by=grp$map_x;scale=log;dataMin=194;dataMax=96846$map_y;scale=lin;dataMin=23;dataMax=86$map_s;sma=49;smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=;modified=60
  1198. >>
  1199.  Anonymous (ID: QRdBpfZi)  01/23/16(Sat)00:18:48 No.61789369▶
  1200. >>61789308
  1201. This doesn't make sense.
  1202. >>
  1203.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:18:54 No.61789376▶>>61789711
  1204. >>61789251
  1206. >creates a bubble of debt
  1207. >wants to get out of the bubble by creating more debt
  1209. makes a lot of sense to me
  1210. >>
  1211.  Anonymous (ID: t7UyyNdE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:19:02 No.61789381▶>>61789472 >>61789569 >>61791284 >>61798685
  1212. >>61788878
  1213. This is 100% accurate.
  1215. The big contribution of Austrian economists was that they theorized that competitive equilibria are efficient because prices function as the best possible signals of supply and demand in the economy.
  1217. A modem economist (Debreu) actually proved it rigorously as the first welfare theorem, but also that it only holds true under certain assumptions - convex and monotonic preferences, complete assets markets, etc.
  1219. There are really no "Keynesian" economists in academia. There are just economists who incorporate price stickiness in some of their models if they believe the economy they're modeling exhibits it in reality.
  1221. Basically this whole Austrians vs Keynesian things only exists in politics, not economics.
  1222. >>
  1223.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:19:53 No.61789433▶
  1224. >>61789251
  1225. I didn't imply anything, but asserting that the 1840s-1950s depression rate was completely due to lack of (insert your favorite policy here) is overdone and sophomoric.
  1226. >>
  1227.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:20:34 No.61789472▶>>61790236
  1228. >>61789381
  1230. I always thought people in the market much preferred microeconomics rather than macro.
  1231. >>
  1232.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:22:01 No.61789569▶>>61798685
  1233. >>61789381
  1234. this, other than
  1235. >only exists in politics
  1236. niqqa what. Muh Bernanke/Krugman camp vs other economists
  1237. >>
  1238.  Anonymous (ID: E9c4T8yE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:22:26 No.61789601▶
  1239. >>61789186
  1240. >quant
  1241. You dumb fuck, Austrians predicted the 29 crash and bailed and Keynes didn't he lost all his money and blamed the big bad abstract wealthy.
  1242. >>
  1243.  Anonymous (ID: 9bvZMS9E)  01/23/16(Sat)00:23:43 No.61789688▶
  1244. >>61787625
  1245. t. Bernie Sanders
  1246. >>
  1247.  Anonymous (ID: kTpnFs36)  01/23/16(Sat)00:24:04 No.61789711▶>>61789780 >>61789970 >>61790004 >>61798285
  1248. File: 51CZe4Am+9L._SX331_BO1,20(...).jpg (38 KB, 333x499)
  1249. 38 KB
  1250. >>61789376
  1252. The debt bubble was created by deregulation. Namely, loosening labour laws and privatization of the land market. Precisely the same kind of shit fags like Rodrigo Constantino and Leandro Narloch defend we do here.
  1254. And that's the problem with capitalism: it lets jews run amok.
  1255. >>
  1256.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:25:18 No.61789780▶>>61789946
  1257. >>61789711
  1258. >conflict between labor and usury
  1259. kek
  1260. >>
  1261.  Anonymous (ID: kTpnFs36)  01/23/16(Sat)00:28:06 No.61789946▶>>61789999
  1262. >>61789780
  1264. >literalmente julgando o livro pela capa
  1266. Se mata.
  1267. >>
  1268.  Anonymous (ID: mlgtPZ8e)  01/23/16(Sat)00:28:14 No.61789953▶>>61790340
  1269. >>61789311
  1271. When you say liberalism do you mean socialim light or actual classical liberalism?
  1273. >I guess we shouldn't take physicists, biologists, chemists, etc. seriously because liberalism is popular in academia?
  1275. Yes i'm sure that marxism affects how fuckin gravity works. Nice fallacy coming straight from down under.
  1277. >If you actually read Keynes you'd know why he makes so much sense and why so many economists are Keynesian.
  1279. Because they fuckin profit from it. If somone payed me top dollar to spew bullshit out of my mouth that its ok to borrow and waste money i'd be first in the line.
  1280. >>
  1281.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:28:36 No.61789970▶>>61790067 >>61790070
  1282. >>61789711
  1284. okay dude:
  1286. explain me then, when markets were more regulated, like you say, and some shit neoliberal faggies said that they shouldn't, was the period well known as the great moderation, where crisis didnt happen that often?
  1288. tip: clinton's had excellent fiscal policy btw.
  1289. >>
  1290.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:28:58 No.61789999▶>>61790070 >>61802933
  1291. >>61789946
  1292. excuse me? I only speak 1st world languages
  1293. >>
  1294.  Anonymous (ID: ZUHxy7Sq)  01/23/16(Sat)00:28:58 No.61790004▶>>61790551
  1295. >>61789711
  1296. >here read this
  1297. >here watch this
  1298. >here let me not make an argument myself
  1300. >debt created by deregulation
  1301. they can literally spend less whether the market is regulated or not
  1303. in fact having regulations and the agencies to enforce them would cause more than less spending
  1305. fucking monkey
  1306. >>
  1307.  Anonymous (ID: QrWsdl4J)  01/23/16(Sat)00:29:40 No.61790058▶
  1308. >>61788161
  1309. The doctor. I expect her to be a humanitarian and empathetic not an elitist.
  1311. Martin is just a small man scapegoat that has helped distract from the hypocrisy of the FDA and Big Pharma.
  1312. >>
  1313.  Anonymous (ID: E9c4T8yE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:29:59 No.61790067▶>>61791462
  1314. >>61789970
  1315. Keynesian fundamentally believe in the broken window fallacy and it's fucking laughable.
  1316. >>
  1317.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:30:03 No.61790070▶>>61790172 >>61790358
  1318. >>61789970
  1319. >Gingrich had excellent fiscal policy btw.
  1320. FTFY
  1322. >>61789999
  1323. holy get
  1324. >>
  1325.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:31:31 No.61790172▶>>61790494 >>61790566 >>61790708
  1326. >>61790070
  1328. bill clinton actually ran surpluses.
  1329. we should give him this one.
  1330. >>
  1331.  Anonymous (ID: t7UyyNdE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:32:26 No.61790236▶
  1332. >>61789472
  1333. Microeconomics has much more applied use to the real world. Macroeconomics is comparatively a relatively new science that didn't develop until the 70s.
  1334. >>
  1335.  Anonymous (ID: znGuWEfx)  01/23/16(Sat)00:34:00 No.61790340▶>>61790443 >>61791039 >>61797774
  1336. >>61789953
  1337. >Yes i'm sure that marxism affects how fuckin gravity works. Nice fallacy coming straight from down under.
  1338. Economics is a science you dummy. It's not women's studies or gender studies. Is it a 'soft' science? Yes, it is but it is a science nonetheless. So the only one who here is making a fallacy here is you.
  1340. >>61789953
  1341. >Because they fuckin profit from it. If somone payed me top dollar to spew bullshit out of my mouth that its ok to borrow and waste money i'd be first in the line.
  1342. Proof? You are spewing nonsense conspiracies without any basis.
  1343. >>
  1344.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:34:12 No.61790358▶
  1345. >>61790070
  1346. >Newt Gingrich actually forced Bill Clinton to pass his budget which was a surplus and implemented many reforms, memorably welfare reform. We should give the lion's share of credit to Newt Gingrich.
  1347. FTFY
  1348. >>
  1349.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:35:24 No.61790443▶
  1350. >>61790340
  1351. >tfw people don't know what Economics is like
  1352. >tfw they call it a soft science
  1353. >tfw it isn't, but it is
  1355. it's like the Jews made it intentionally hard
  1356. >>
  1357.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:36:20 No.61790494▶>>61790651
  1358. >>61790172
  1359. >>Newt Gingrich actually forced Bill Clinton to pass his budget which was a surplus and implemented many reforms, memorably welfare reform. We should give the lion's share of credit to Newt Gingrich.
  1360. >FTFY
  1362. sorry for misquote
  1363. >>
  1364.  Anonymous (ID: 36nzRGS0)  01/23/16(Sat)00:37:07 No.61790551▶>>61792256
  1365. File: lol.png (137 KB, 247x247)
  1366. 137 KB
  1367. >>61790004
  1369. That is called CITING SOURCES.
  1371. I referenced counter-examples to exactly what you said.
  1373. Inform yourself before you Shrek yourself.
  1374. >>
  1375.  Anonymous (ID: E9c4T8yE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:37:29 No.61790566▶>>61790609
  1376. >>61790172
  1377. >what's a republican house and congress
  1378. >>
  1379.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:38:19 No.61790609▶>>61790719
  1380. >>61790566
  1381. >house and congress
  1382. n00b
  1383. >>
  1384.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:39:00 No.61790651▶>>61790733
  1385. >>61790494
  1387. alright, thanks for the fact m8
  1388. didnt know bout that
  1389. >>
  1390.  Anonymous (ID: gHSBF2zp)  01/23/16(Sat)00:40:17 No.61790708▶
  1391. >>61790172
  1392. >we should give him this one.
  1393. why? he didn't cause the dot com boom
  1394. >>
  1395.  Anonymous (ID: E9c4T8yE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:40:29 No.61790719▶>>61790804 >>61790902
  1396. >>61790609
  1397. >I believe digging and filling holes creates value
  1398. >>
  1399.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:40:42 No.61790733▶
  1400. >>61790651
  1401. sure m8
  1402. >
  1403. >this article is part of a series about Newt Gingrich
  1405. >Newt gets a series
  1406. >obongo doesn't
  1407. kek
  1408. >>
  1409.  Anonymous (ID: 7Za8An8G)  01/23/16(Sat)00:40:52 No.61790746▶>>61790883 >>61791002 >>61791448
  1410. >>61787388
  1411. Because it does, and has worked for centuries.
  1413. Blind belief in the free market to optimize all solutions is as insane as wanting the state to control the entire economy.
  1415. The best solution is in the middle. Insane people like free market fundamentalists believe any government intervention is bad.
  1417. That includes the fucking justice system.
  1419. Of course Brazil wouldn't understand this living in a failed state.
  1420. >>
  1421.  Anonymous (ID: 4s9NDG/q)  01/23/16(Sat)00:40:58 No.61790755▶>>61790936 >>61801964 >>61809547
  1422. File: 1442542694242.jpg (1.19 MB, 2700x1800)
  1423. 1.19 MB
  1424. >>61787219 (OP)
  1425. Adam Smith was the father of Classical Economics and remains the most relevant and coherent source of economic thought into the present era. Not the be-all-end-all of economic thought, but the only real foundation for the overall theory of economics.
  1427. Marx was an imbecile and a leech, anyone who subscribes to his ideas ought to be shot outright.
  1429. Friedman was trite and ultimately irrelevant. He spent his entire career trying to poke holes in every theory he could get his hands on, and ultimately all of his own contributions amount to speculative pessimistic horse shit.
  1431. Keynes was wrong about just about everything, but he was still a reasoned and noteworthy economist who helped pave the way for more refined theories of economic systems.
  1432. >>
  1433.  Anonymous (ID: 7Za8An8G)  01/23/16(Sat)00:41:42 No.61790799▶>>61790942 >>61791043
  1434. >>61787844
  1435. Rule of law
  1436. No government intervention
  1438. Pick one.
  1440. Fucking moron Austrian, Libertarian extremists.
  1441. >>
  1442.  Anonymous (ID: TjanENRq)  01/23/16(Sat)00:41:46 No.61790804▶
  1443. >>61790719
  1444. It might if we put you in one.
  1445. >>
  1446.  Anonymous (ID: RhN66uLW)  01/23/16(Sat)00:42:31 No.61790841▶>>61807027
  1447. >>61788293
  1448. Your logic is retarded, let's use the Chinese as an example. Back in the day the U.S. was leader in manufacturing around the world, as our society grew wealthier from having an abundance of manufacturing jobs, the standard of living here was also growing rapidly. Pretty soon we became so wealthy that nobody wanted to do the shitty / dangerous factory jobs, so what did we do? Outsourced manufacturing to the Chinese, who were poor at the time and happy to make all the products we consume in America, thus driving down the price of good we consume. This way the Chinese grew extremely wealthy and brought millions of their people into the middle class. Now China is slowly becoming too wealthy to compete with other third world countries which continue to drive down the price of labor and goods. Cheaper prices = good for the middle class. It would be stupid for Americans to try and compete for manufacturing jobs with the Chinese and Indians, we are too wealthy / have too high a standard of living to do that shit, thus the jobs market adjusts to create different, usually more sophisticated jobs in countries with higher standards of living. Why are tariffs dumb? Because it makes products less affordable, which only hurts the poor and middle class. Maybe try reading a book, or even an article if your attention span isn't big enough, before you act like you know what your talking about. Then again, trying to argue with Pol is usually a waste of time. If your so concerned about jobs, maybe move to India , I hear they have a lot of them over there now
  1449. >>
  1450.  Anonymous (ID: 7Za8An8G)  01/23/16(Sat)00:43:10 No.61790875▶>>61797879
  1451. >>61788273
  1452. Ok this Brazil is pretty based and not retarded.
  1453. >>
  1454.  Anonymous (ID: E9c4T8yE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:43:17 No.61790883▶
  1455. >>61790746
  1456. >The best solution is in the middle
  1457. No you fucking imbecile, central planning doesn't improve the economy, it limits it.
  1458. The economy was never meant to be influenced by some religion or state, it was always built from the interactions of individuals bottom-up.
  1459. >>
  1460.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:43:36 No.61790902▶
  1461. >>61790719
  1462. ???
  1463. >>
  1464.  Anonymous (ID: E9c4T8yE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:44:10 No.61790936▶>>61791021
  1465. >>61790755
  1466. >labor theory of value
  1468. >>
  1469.  Anonymous (ID: gHSBF2zp)  01/23/16(Sat)00:44:18 No.61790942▶
  1470. >>61790799
  1471. I think you are confusing libertarians and anarchists
  1472. >>
  1473.  Anonymous (ID: 7Za8An8G)  01/23/16(Sat)00:44:35 No.61790961▶>>61791043 >>61791211 >>61791570
  1474. >>61788587
  1475. Braindead.
  1477. If your people are universally competing with whipped slaves you're going to have to lower yourselves to their level to keep in the market. This is bad for everyone except the Jew.
  1479. Austrian economists were gigantic Jews that wanted the working classes destroyed and nations destroyed with them. It's globalist free market tripe and the pinnacle of kikery.
  1480. >>
  1481.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:45:14 No.61791002▶
  1482. >>61790746
  1484. believe it or not i much prefer a middle of the road approach.
  1486. im just against protectionism because brazil been practicing it in unsustainable amounts since the 40s
  1488. and it didn't work
  1489. >>
  1490.  Anonymous (ID: 7Za8An8G)  01/23/16(Sat)00:45:31 No.61791020▶
  1491. >>61788654
  1492. Just fucking suck Goldman Cruz's dick you globalist jew fuck.
  1494. It's not working this time you kike neocon faggots. You're losers, and everyone knows it.
  1495. >>
  1496.  Anonymous (ID: znGuWEfx)  01/23/16(Sat)00:45:32 No.61791021▶>>61791076
  1497. >>61790936
  1498. What's wrong with the labor theory of value?
  1499. >>
  1500.  Anonymous (ID: mlgtPZ8e)  01/23/16(Sat)00:45:44 No.61791039▶
  1501. >>61790340
  1503. >Proof? You are spewing nonsense conspiracies without any basis.
  1505. Ok question if you were and economist, a proffesor of sorts that was employed by a government offcial to advise him, what would you do:
  1507. a) Promote a solution that will constantly requaier you skills and calculations becouse hurr durr the economy gotta be stable, and it provids you with a stable source of income
  1509. b) Promote a solution that allow markets to appear naturally thus rendering your obsolete.
  1511. >Economics is a science you dummy.
  1512. Again, no shit. It is a science but becouse it's a mix of constantly changing uncertainties and pramiters mixed with philosophic and politcs it's much easier to manipulate.
  1513. >>
  1514.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:45:44 No.61791043▶
  1515. >>61790799
  1516. can't tell if b8
  1518. >>61790961
  1519. kek
  1520. >>
  1521.  Anonymous (ID: E9c4T8yE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:46:17 No.61791076▶>>61791392
  1522. >>61791021
  1523. >pick up a diamond
  1524. no value
  1525. >dig and fill holes
  1527. >>
  1528.  Anonymous (ID: 7Za8An8G)  01/23/16(Sat)00:47:20 No.61791144▶>>61791244 >>61803400 >>61804052
  1529. >>61789103
  1530. It's not taken seriously because it's wrong. It's wrong because it's based on false premises of an omniscient market actors. It's also the creation of treasonous globalist jews.
  1531. >>
  1532.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:48:24 No.61791211▶
  1533. >>61790961
  1535. That is if you assume that everyone is subject to the same level of education and productivity
  1536. >>
  1537.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:48:45 No.61791244▶
  1538. >>61791144
  1539. MV=PT
  1540. how does that make you feel?
  1541. >>
  1542.  Anonymous (ID: 7Za8An8G)  01/23/16(Sat)00:49:20 No.61791284▶>>61791334 >>61791350 >>61791550
  1543. >>61789381
  1544. Austrian economics isn't based on empirical models. It deliberately throws them out.
  1546. It's dogma, nothing more. Mises was a nutty globalist ghoul who believed in the market like a religious person believes in god.
  1547. >>
  1548.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:50:15 No.61791334▶
  1549. >>61791284
  1550. >like a religious person believes in god
  1551. like you...?
  1552. >>
  1553.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:50:24 No.61791350▶
  1554. >>61791284
  1556. Just to mention: mathematics isn't based in empirical models, but axioms as well.
  1558. That doesn't make it wrong.
  1559. >>
  1560.  Anonymous (ID: znGuWEfx)  01/23/16(Sat)00:51:02 No.61791392▶>>61791442 >>61791451 >>61791541 >>61791570 >>61792010 >>61792942 >>61793403 >>61793448
  1561. >>61791076
  1562. [Embed]
  1564. Watch this video to understand the 'labor theory of value' because you seem ignorant of it.
  1565. >>
  1566.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:51:50 No.61791442▶
  1567. >>61791392
  1568. >[Embed]
  1569. >see flag
  1570. top heh
  1571. >>
  1572.  Anonymous (ID: qXh7GCb+)  01/23/16(Sat)00:51:52 No.61791448▶>>61791529 >>61792560
  1573. >>61790746
  1574. > Blind belief in the free market to optimize all solutions is as insane as wanting the state to control the entire economy.
  1575. > The best solution is in the middle. Insane people like free market fundamentalists believe any government intervention is bad.
  1577. This is a caricature of what libertarian thought is.
  1579. The argument is closer to this:
  1581. 1. We cannot predict of foresee all consequences of our actions, or policies.
  1582. 2. Thus we have to adopt institutions, mechanisms and policies that tend to promote good outcomes
  1583. 3. We think market mechanisms are better than government mechanisms when it comes to point 2
  1585. This doesn't imply that every outcome of the market is perfect. Or that every outcome of government action is bad. Just that, generally, market outcomes are better than government outcomes.
  1587. You are building a strawman if your argument is that libertarianism does not lead to a perfect society. That's not what we are promoting. Liberals/progressives are promoting a perfect society, not us.
  1589. The result is that they have a crappy society while trying to build the perfect one (case in point: all left countries in history) whereas countries that are more libertarian, or capitalist, tend to be decent countries. Not without problems, because the world is big and complex and imperfect, but still pretty good countries.
  1590. >>
  1591.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:51:53 No.61791451▶
  1592. >>61791392
  1594. marginal fucking utility pls
  1595. >>
  1596.  Anonymous (ID: 7Za8An8G)  01/23/16(Sat)00:52:09 No.61791462▶>>61791570 >>61791695 >>61799402
  1597. >>61790067
  1598. There is literally nothing laughable about it. A company that makes a product too well will literally go out of business if there isn't enough demand. Broken windows are good for the economy.
  1600. If Caterpillar made an excavator so fucking good it didn't have to be replaced for 50 years the company would be in deep shit, as would the greater economy. Fixing broken shit and replacing broken shit is a huge part of the economy, and it's a fallacy to assume new market demands will come up for surplus labour.
  1601. >>
  1602.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:53:18 No.61791529▶>>61791981
  1603. >>61791448
  1605. Yeah. I personally believe that the state should be reserved at doing minimal things, like you know, protecting property and contracts.
  1606. >>
  1607.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)00:53:31 No.61791541▶
  1608. >>61791392
  1609. >labor produces wealth
  1610. >labor produces everything
  1611. >a honey-producing bee-hive is a good analogy to the real world, where most of the world's wealth is in real estate
  1612. >>
  1613.  Anonymous (ID: qXh7GCb+)  01/23/16(Sat)00:53:38 No.61791550▶
  1614. >>61791284
  1616. No, he had a theory of economic calculation to explain his belief in the superiority of the market.
  1618. Feel free to disagree with that theory, assuming you know and understand it, but you can't brush it aside by simply saying it's religious or dogmatic.
  1620. No libertarian is arguing that Marx's belief in communism was magical, dogmatic or religious. We just think his main theory is wrong.
  1621. >>
  1622.  Anonymous (ID: E9c4T8yE)  01/23/16(Sat)00:53:59 No.61791570▶
  1623. >>61790961
  1624. >jews jews jews
  1625. >115 average IQ the reason why they are upper class and call the shots
  1626. >dumb leaf flips burgers and cries why he isn't a millionare while buying weed every week
  1628. >>61791392
  1629. I fully understand labor theory of value, and it is inherently flawed.
  1631. >>61791462
  1632. >Broken windows are good for the economy
  1633. Alright you can leave the thread pls
  1635. >Fixing broken shit and replacing broken shit is a huge part of the economy, and it's a fallacy to assume new market demands will come up for surplus labour.
  1636. Thank for you verifying the intellectual capacity of the people I am wasting my time replying to
  1637. >>
  1638.  Anonymous (ID: mlgtPZ8e)  01/23/16(Sat)00:54:09 No.61791586▶
  1639. Keynesians, the economic equivalent of cucks
  1640. >>
  1641.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)00:55:53 No.61791695▶
  1642. >>61791462
  1644. Your example is full of shit because it doesnt represent the broken window fallacy.
  1645. >>
  1646.  Anonymous (ID: kTpnFs36)  01/23/16(Sat)01:00:41 No.61791981▶>>61792363 >>61792376
  1647. File: 51UwVgqVLgL._SX341_BO1,20(...).jpg (33 KB, 343x499)
  1648. 33 KB
  1649. >>61791529
  1651. Me too. How do we get to that state though? It's not through capitalism! Hayekian economics create corporations and banks lobbying for interventionism. Capitalism leads to socialism.
  1653. The way to achieve a truly free market is Distributism.
  1655. Take a look at a distributist example: [Embed]
  1657. That documentary is over 30 years old and Mondragón is still around by the way.
  1658. >>
  1659.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)01:00:43 No.61791985▶
  1660. thanks for circlejerking with me guys, good thread
  1662. >tfw no commie/liberal/anclap opposition on /pol/ since 2013
  1663. >tfw years since you saw massive walls of text in a anclap/ancom debate
  1664. >>
  1665.  Anonymous (ID: gHSBF2zp)  01/23/16(Sat)01:01:08 No.61792010▶>>61792382 >>61792482 >>61792735
  1666. >>61791392
  1667. >labor produces wealth
  1668. false: trade produces wealth: if nobody wants what you produce, the amount of labor needed to produce it is irrelevant
  1669. >>
  1670.  Anonymous (ID: ZUHxy7Sq)  01/23/16(Sat)01:05:43 No.61792256▶>>61792614
  1671. >>61790551
  1672. >what you said
  1673. check the post id monkey
  1674. >sources
  1675. >for a theoretical argument
  1676. oh lawd
  1677. >>
  1678.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)01:08:07 No.61792363▶>>61792614
  1679. >>61791981
  1681. Explain then to me, as your solution involves passing laws to regulate evil capitalism, is exactly the same thing that corporations do, as they are interested in passing laws as well, bribing politicians to do so, when in counterpart Hayek's evil policies are basically getting rid of those laws and instead sticking to principles.
  1682. >>
  1683.  Anonymous (ID: mlgtPZ8e)  01/23/16(Sat)01:08:25 No.61792376▶>>61792614
  1684. >>61791981
  1686. That is the fuckin dumbest thing i've ever read.
  1688. Like seriously, wow.
  1690. Socialism and lobby groups exist becous of fuckin distribution which is in fact part of big goverment interventionism. It happens when you try to combine socialist idology with capitalism.
  1692. It's litteraly like trying to sqeeze a square block through a round hole. Even monkies can figure it out.
  1693. >>
  1694.  Anonymous (ID: E9c4T8yE)  01/23/16(Sat)01:08:30 No.61792382▶>>61792662
  1695. >>61792010
  1696. Yup, and it's common sense like this which fundamentally makes all non-austrian economists so laughable. They come up with all these grand theories, but fail basic fucking common sense.
  1698. >the economy is too complicated for us to understand
  1699. just projection of how they don't understand the basic laws of the economy
  1700. >>
  1701.  Anonymous (ID: mlgtPZ8e)  01/23/16(Sat)01:10:09 No.61792482▶
  1702. >>61792010
  1704. Holy shit a canadian with reason, i thought all of ya were socialists.
  1705. >>
  1706.  Anonymous (ID: WcInmIzt)  01/23/16(Sat)01:11:24 No.61792560▶>>61792714 >>61794401
  1707. >>61791448
  1708. America is founded on libertarian and capitalist values. look at where it is now. all the corruption, its a country literally owned by jews and capitalists. everything comes second to money and consumerism. its cancer.
  1709. >>
  1710.  Anonymous (ID: 36nzRGS0)  01/23/16(Sat)01:12:09 No.61792614▶>>61792851
  1711. >>61792256
  1713. >check the post id
  1714. What are you talking about?
  1716. >oh lawd
  1717. Cry more, nigger.
  1719. >>61792363
  1721. That's not what my solution involves.
  1723. >>61792376
  1725. >confusing Distributism with distribution
  1727. Learn to read, then we talk.
  1728. >>
  1729.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)01:12:51 No.61792662▶
  1730. >>61792382
  1732. Not only that: basically labour theory of value can't justify protectionism. Chinks worm a lot more than importing countries in each good they produce, which then should lead to a more expensive product instead.
  1733. >>
  1734.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)01:13:44 No.61792714▶
  1735. >>61792560
  1737. Yeah, because they really stood by it and Hamiltonians never existed.
  1738. >>
  1739.  Anonymous (ID: znGuWEfx)  01/23/16(Sat)01:14:03 No.61792735▶>>61793399 >>61793606 >>61809843
  1740. >>61792010
  1741. [Embed]
  1743. Watch and learn.
  1744. >>
  1745.  Anonymous (ID: XDEsKaBl)  01/23/16(Sat)01:14:57 No.61792793▶>>61793577
  1746. >>61787804
  1747. >le Somalia meme
  1748. >implying giving a bunch of gorillas their own patch of sand and some AK-47s is somehow akin to Austrian economics
  1749. >>
  1750.  Anonymous (ID: wmCCHpXG)  01/23/16(Sat)01:15:37 No.61792835▶
  1751. Capitalism is ok.
  1753. Libertarianism isn't.
  1755. Fuck off.
  1756. >>
  1757.  Anonymous (ID: YqI7ARNy)  01/23/16(Sat)01:15:55 No.61792851▶>>61793467
  1758. >>61792614
  1760. Yeah, because you're going to get rid of capital accumulation by simply convincing everyone of not trying to be richer.
  1761. >>
  1762.  Anonymous (ID: mlgtPZ8e)  01/23/16(Sat)01:17:10 No.61792942▶>>61793780
  1763. >>61791392
  1765. >Wants to argue economics.
  1766. >Posts a video with a big ass syndicalist / mutualist flag in the background.
  1768. Top Kek
  1769. >>
  1770.  Anonymous (ID: fSZWSALt)  01/23/16(Sat)01:18:38 No.61793022▶
  1771. File: 1-oz-rmc-round.jpg (72 KB, 600x600)
  1772. 72 KB
  1773. >>61787219 (OP)
  1774. >>
  1775.  Anonymous (ID: gHSBF2zp)  01/23/16(Sat)01:25:35 No.61793399▶
  1776. >>61792735
  1777. I do not understand supply and demand, the video
  1778. >>
  1779.  Anonymous (ID: jCmTQLf1)  01/23/16(Sat)01:25:40 No.61793403▶>>61793594
  1780. >>61791392
  1781. >I don't know what risk is
  1783. The person who pays the workers to build the building stands to lose huge amounts of money.
  1785. He's taking a huge risk. The workers are not.
  1786. >>
  1787.  Anonymous (ID: XDEsKaBl)  01/23/16(Sat)01:26:26 No.61793448▶
  1788. >>61791392
  1789. What a terribly retarded video.
  1790. >>
  1791.  Anonymous (ID: 36nzRGS0)  01/23/16(Sat)01:26:45 No.61793467▶
  1792. >>61792851
  1794. Capital accumulation is okay, and being rich is not a sin.
  1796. UNJUST capital accumulation is the problem.
  1798. Here, watch this: [Embed]
  1800. Distributism is precisely about less government regulation. However, economics isn't just about the role of government, there's much more to it. You focus so hard on that single aspect and overlook so many things...
  1801. >>
  1802.  Anonymous (ID: 36nzRGS0)  01/23/16(Sat)01:29:00 No.61793577▶
  1803. >>61792793
  1805. Somalia isn't an example of libertarianism failing.
  1807. If you want an example of that, look no further than potato famine Ireland: (portuguese)
  1808. >>
  1809.  Anonymous (ID: E9c4T8yE)  01/23/16(Sat)01:29:25 No.61793594▶
  1810. >>61793403
  1811. >The person who pays the workers to build the building stands to lose huge amounts of money.
  1812. The capitalist created the jobs, invested a large sum of money, and increased the supply of housing thereby reducing the price of housing for everyone making everyone more wealthy. The capitalist did this with his own money that he earned. The capitalist is an agent, a means to serving an end, the rent-seekers. The rent-seekers are a means to serve the capitalist end: profit.
  1814. Basic shit like this.
  1815. >>
  1816.  Anonymous (ID: SEcAsI3D)  01/23/16(Sat)01:29:32 No.61793606▶
  1817. >>61792735
  1818. >economic value
  1819. >unrelated to personal value
  1820. all my wat
  1821. >>
  1822.  Anonymous (ID: o854KAQX)  01/23/16(Sat)01:33:10 No.61793780▶
  1823. File: 99333.jpg (158 KB, 963x719)
  1824. 158 KB
  1825. >>61792942
  1827. To jest dobry znak brak inteligencji. nigdy nie przeczytać co on krytykuje.
  1828. >>
  1829.  Anonymous (ID: qXh7GCb+)  01/23/16(Sat)01:43:46 No.61794401▶
  1830. >>61792560
  1832. The corruption, and influence of corporations/lobbyists, has grown with the state. Look at where the federal government is now, compared to a century ago.
  1834. I think the big mistake was the belief in government. Capitalism is stable (it always fall backs on its feet) but can be very shaky (or dynamic to use a better world). So every time there was a crisis, instead of letting market forces slowly solve the issue and integrate mechanisms to reduce future occurences, people turned to government for a quick, immediate and ultimate fix, but with many other, long-term negative side effects. Thus government has grown.
  1835. >>
  1836.  Anonymous (ID: kwqgj/Zm)  01/23/16(Sat)02:09:30 No.61795788▶
  1837. >>61787388
  1838. Protectionism only makes sense if you're doing something for non-economic reasons, if you explicitly want to favor a particular group over others, or as a measure against foreign trade policies, and I'm not even that sure about the last one.
  1840. The above are why right-wing protectionism at least makes a degree of internal sense; Buchanan wants tariffs because he wants to protect the American middle class, and the dirty Mexicans can starve for all he cares. Leftists who think free trade somehow hurts poor countries, such as Naomi Klein, are fucking retards who just want to maintain them as a world zoo free from evil gabidalism.
  1841. >>
  1842.  Anonymous (ID: kwqgj/Zm)  01/23/16(Sat)02:10:33 No.61795853▶
  1843. >>61788223
  1844. Hayek, Marx, Keynes, John Stuart Mill, Adam Smith, Friedman, Mises(?)
  1845. >>
  1846.  Anonymous (ID: huCckXaz)  01/23/16(Sat)02:33:16 No.61797227▶
  1847. >>61787388
  1848. >It's kinda funny how the Trump bandwagon thinks that protectionism works.
  1850. It doesn't. But neither does free trade with unlevel plain field, where different sides have considerably different labour laws, taxation, regulations, and also try to outsmart each other with currency devaluation.
  1851. >>
  1852.  Anonymous (ID: huCckXaz)  01/23/16(Sat)02:43:11 No.61797774▶
  1853. >>61790340
  1854. Economics depend a lot on human actions and perceptions. Human actions will be different under different circumstances, so economics is NOT a hard science like physics, math and chemistry. Have you ever wonder why the "scientists" in mainstream universities, government and banks are rarely able to predict any crisis? Because they cannot predict human behaviour with a good enough degree of certainty.
  1855. >>
  1856.  Anonymous (ID: kBK2pf42)  01/23/16(Sat)02:45:00 No.61797879▶
  1857. >>61790875
  1858. thanks for telling us you're a brazilnigger in canada.
  1859. >>
  1860.  Anonymous (ID: q+7VM52R)  01/23/16(Sat)02:47:38 No.61798029▶
  1861. File: hayek 1.png (296 KB, 640x447)
  1862. 296 KB
  1863. >>
  1864.  Anonymous (ID: q+7VM52R)  01/23/16(Sat)02:48:09 No.61798061▶
  1865. File: hayek 2.png (359 KB, 744x491)
  1866. 359 KB
  1867. >>
  1868.  Anonymous (ID: q+7VM52R)  01/23/16(Sat)02:48:26 No.61798077▶
  1869. File: hayek 3.png (113 KB, 435x311)
  1870. 113 KB
  1871. >>
  1872.  Anonymous (ID: huCckXaz)  01/23/16(Sat)02:51:39 No.61798285▶
  1873. >>61789711
  1874. Typical left wing Brazilian. Repeats what CNN and MSNBC convinces the Brazilian media to publish. Go back to Lula.
  1875. >>
  1876.  Anonymous (ID: TlKufruZ)  01/23/16(Sat)02:53:01 No.61798368▶>>61798711 >>61799965
  1877. >>61787445
  1878. >>61787558
  1879. Austrian economics is the Donald Trump of economic schools. It's a joke and nobody respectable takes it seriously, but it has a huge fanbase of internet retards.
  1880. >>
  1881.  Anonymous (ID: BL1NMo8U)  01/23/16(Sat)02:57:57 No.61798633▶
  1882. >>61788118
  1883. Why would he be taken seriously. At least in the usa, common core has changed what history claims. Liberals own the academic boards here and im sure there too. If they dont agree with it, it doesnt get taught. Hitler's ideas were dead on on the educational front, if you own the minds of the children, you on the country.
  1884. >>
  1885.  Anonymous (ID: huCckXaz)  01/23/16(Sat)02:58:57 No.61798685▶
  1886. >>61789569
  1887. >>>61789381
  1889. >>only exists in politics
  1890. >niqqa what. Muh Bernanke/Krugman camp vs other economists
  1892. Krugman and Bernanke: pretty much full politicians, mainly Krugman that for the last 20 years is just the token economist the democrat party leans n to justify its insane economic policies
  1893. >>
  1894.  Anonymous (ID: q+7VM52R)  01/23/16(Sat)02:59:25 No.61798711▶>>61799542
  1895. >>61798368
  1897. > FA Hayek won the Nobel Prize for Economics
  1899. > nobody respectable takes it seriously
  1901. kek
  1902. >>
  1903.  Anonymous (ID: BL1NMo8U)  01/23/16(Sat)03:06:12 No.61798995▶
  1904. >>61788923
  1905. It wasnt. Real comunism will not be achieved until nobody needs to work. Someone will always be higher than someone else
  1906. >>
  1907.  Anonymous (ID: 4T+oyaGx)  01/23/16(Sat)03:14:25 No.61799379▶
  1908. File: 1451809715681.jpg (135 KB, 735x582)
  1909. 135 KB
  1910. >>61787445
  1911. >>
  1912.  Anonymous (ID: TlKufruZ)  01/23/16(Sat)03:14:57 No.61799402▶>>61799652
  1913. >>61791462
  1914. Keynesian fiscal policy is not about breaking windows you fucking moron. It's about increasing demand to bring more resources into use and maximise output.
  1916. The output gap is what could be produced but is not being produced because the private sector is not currently spending enough (insufficient demand). Keynesians advocate higher government spending when private spending drops in order to fill that output gap and keep the economy going. The government would then shrink back when private spending is high to prevent price level inflation.
  1918. This keeps most of the workforce employed and stabilises the economy and most of it happens automatically nowadays because of progressive taxation and the welfare state. That is, government's deficits grow and shrink according to the state of the economy.
  1920. What you are advocating is destroying [things] and then paying people to rebuild them. That's not Keynesian, it's a ridiculous strawman that /pol/ conservatives/libretardians always use and it makes me think you're actually shilling in disguise as a "dumbass lefty" archetype or something.
  1921. >>
  1922.  Anonymous (ID: TlKufruZ)  01/23/16(Sat)03:18:14 No.61799542▶>>61800920
  1923. >>61798711
  1924. >the fake nobel prize
  1925. >respectable
  1926. Hey I'm gonna award a Nobel Memorial Prize in Shitposting, and its recipients will automatically have well-earned prestige because it's a "Nobel" prize.
  1927. >>
  1928.  Anonymous (ID: 7Za8An8G)  01/23/16(Sat)03:20:33 No.61799652▶>>61800247 >>61800992 >>61813064
  1929. >>61799402
  1930. I fucking know it's not about literally breaking windows, but it's not nearly as much a fallacy as people make it out to be.
  1932. An economy where literally nothing breaks would be fucked up in many different ways. Aggregate demand would collapse to the point the infrastructure wouldn't be there to support it when it's needed.
  1934. So while it's definitely retarded to break windows to help the economy, it's NOT retarded to design a product that fails after X time to prevent market failure in the form of a bankrupt company that can no longer supply the few products that do end up breaking.
  1935. >>
  1936.  Anonymous (ID: huCckXaz)  01/23/16(Sat)03:26:42 No.61799965▶>>61800247
  1937. >>61798368
  1938. I take that you actually haven't sat down and read any "Austrian economics" book have you?
  1940. Pretty much every economic crisis that happened since the great depression were predicted by the Austrians, while Keynesians kept saying the economy was in great shape. "Keynesians", and I use this term loosely, did come up with some clever tools that keep postponing the problem and creates the next crisis, such as detaching currency from gold, independent central banks, controlled unbacked money printing, etc. One of the basic premise of "austrians" is that we can't create wealth from thin air, or by working for the sake of working. If you believe in that you're half way there.
  1941. >>
  1942.  Anonymous (ID: TlKufruZ)  01/23/16(Sat)03:32:46 No.61800247▶>>61801273
  1943. >>61799652
  1944. >An economy where literally nothing breaks would be fucked up in many different ways.
  1945. An economy where nothing breaks would be wonderful. The only reason to repair/replace anything would be because the technology has improved. Imagine all the extra real output! The prosperity! The improvement in real living conditions!
  1947. Product failure is not a good tool to create demand. The analogy shouldn't be "destroy bridges and then rebuild them" but rather something like "build more bridges where we need them".
  1949. >>61799965
  1950. >Pretty much every economic crisis that happened since the great depression were predicted by the Austrians, while Keynesians kept saying the economy was in great shape.
  1951. Heard this meme before. At least cite examples & sources where you think this happened if you want to be believed.
  1952. >>
  1953.  Anonymous (ID: wZzQI4l4)  01/23/16(Sat)03:33:28 No.61800287▶
  1954. >>61788633
  1955. Talking sense is just saying "X is/ was a jew".
  1957. Relativity is wrong Einstein was a jew.
  1958. >>
  1959.  Anonymous (ID: wZzQI4l4)  01/23/16(Sat)03:38:14 No.61800509▶
  1960. >>61789251
  1961. Austerity worked in the few countries that it was applied like Estonia. In Spain we dont have austerity, we are running a deficit of 3% of our PIB.
  1962. >>
  1963.  Anonymous (ID: qXh7GCb+)  01/23/16(Sat)03:47:24 No.61800920▶>>61801764
  1964. >>61799542
  1966. The fact it's not a Nobel prize from the original Nobel institution is completely irrelevant.
  1968. It's the prize regarded by most economists as the most prestigious.
  1970. It could be called the Shub Niggurath prize of economics it would be the same thing.
  1972. A few prominent economists tried to figure out the 20 most influential papers published in the American Economic Review.
  1976. This includes Hayek's paper on "The Use of Knowledge in Society".
  1978. When Hayek published that in 1945, he was mocked, because the consensus at that time, even in Western countries, was that economic planning was a superior model.
  1980. We all know, today, that a market economy works better than a planned economy. Hayek knew that, and was one of the first to explain exactly why. He foresaw the collapse of planned economies, including the Soviet union, at a time where everyone thought they would dominate (even in the late sixties, many economists believed the growth rate of North Korea would stay stable, and the south would always be dominated economically by the north).
  1982. That's pretty influential, I would say.
  1983. >>
  1984.  Anonymous (ID: huCckXaz)  01/23/16(Sat)03:49:04 No.61800992▶
  1985. >>61799652
  1986. Nobody is surprised that companies do that. Ahem, apple! But saying that products going broke "naturally" is a good thing for the economy and the general well-being of people doesn't make sense.
  1988. Every time we have to replace something that breaks we're allocating resources away from innovation and efficiency. Ie if I have $50000 and my tractor breaks, I either have to take that money from the bank, which could have been returning me interest, or I could have invested on a new barn or bigger truck to make my farm more efficient, and so on. All these are good for myself and the economy. Now because of that "planned obsolescence" I have to spend money to stay were I was before the tractor broke. That's good for caterpillar and john deere, not myself. Broken window or planned obsolescence are not good for the overall economy because resources are not being optimally allocated, even though it might benefit some people.
  1989. >>
  1990.  Anonymous (ID: qXh7GCb+)  01/23/16(Sat)03:50:20 No.61801060▶
  1991. The problem with Austrian economics is not the actual, original Austrian school, whose findings have been integrated in orthodox economics.
  1993. It's the "neo Austrians". They're to Austrian economics what the 70s IRA is to the 1920, Michael Collins IRA.
  1994. >>
  1995.  Anonymous (ID: huCckXaz)  01/23/16(Sat)03:54:52 No.61801273▶
  1996. >>61800247
  1997. Sorry dude. Its 1am here and I'm not gonna do that research for you. I mean no offense but you could use a book or two on the subject. It's a pretty fun read mainly when you consider the timing when mises, hayek, wrote about that stuff. Specially mises.
  1998. >>
  1999.  Anonymous (ID: huCckXaz)  01/23/16(Sat)04:05:30 No.61801764▶
  2000. >>61800920
  2001. This.
  2003. Plus lets not forget Mises who wrote about the impossibility of communism due lack of accurate economic calculation as early as 1920:
  2006. >>
  2007.  Anonymous (ID: 7CILM/tK)  01/23/16(Sat)04:09:56 No.61801964▶>>61802139
  2008. >>61790755
  2010. that list seriously misses "Human Action - Ludwig von Mises"
  2011. >>
  2012.  Anonymous (ID: huCckXaz)  01/23/16(Sat)04:13:28 No.61802139▶>>61802496
  2013. >>61801964
  2014. Hey Germany, aren't you supposed to hate Austrians?
  2015. >>
  2016.  Anonymous (ID: 7CILM/tK)  01/23/16(Sat)04:21:37 No.61802496▶>>61802687
  2017. >>61802139
  2019. We don't , and I cant think of any time when we would have .
  2020. You'd have a hard time telling a Bavarian and Austrian apart .
  2021. >>
  2022.  Anonymous (ID: huCckXaz)  01/23/16(Sat)04:26:22 No.61802687▶
  2023. >>61802496
  2024. Interesting... Have a couple of unrelated buddies from Munich that don't really like Austrians.
  2025. >>
  2026.  Anonymous (ID: KqDrrvW8)  01/23/16(Sat)04:32:29 No.61802933▶
  2027. File: dubsdance.gif (892 KB, 200x317)
  2028. 892 KB
  2029. >>61789999
  2030. underrated get
  2031. >>
  2032.  Anonymous (ID: /nLu+Pk+)  01/23/16(Sat)04:43:52 No.61803400▶>>61804052
  2033. >>61791144
  2034. >It's wrong because it's based on false premises of an omniscient market actors
  2035. You have no idea what you are talking about.
  2036. >>
  2037.  Anonymous (ID: huCckXaz)  01/23/16(Sat)05:01:25 No.61804052▶
  2038. >>61803400
  2039. >>61791144
  2040. >>It's wrong because it's based on false premises of an omniscient market actors
  2041. >You have no idea what you are talking about.
  2043. Omniscient market actors... Kek.
  2044. >>
  2045.  Anonymous (ID: lGkyoEQc)  01/23/16(Sat)05:06:48 No.61804275▶
  2046. >>61789251
  2047. >austerity worked great in Europe, didn't it
  2048. There was no austerity in Europe retard
  2049. >>
  2050.  Anonymous (ID: +5vBjO6q)  01/23/16(Sat)05:52:14 No.61806152▶
  2051. >>61788878
  2052. Economics is not a science you fuck.
  2054. I am a biologist. Physicists and mathematicians laugh at me. I laugh at economists. They're pseudo-scientists that only play lip service to empiricism.
  2055. >>
  2056.  Anonymous (ID: GEaUU+de)  01/23/16(Sat)05:55:20 No.61806273▶
  2057. >>61787388
  2059. The only people that say it doesn't are greedy money grubbing kikes that have no allegiance other than to get their grubby hands on more money.
  2060. >>
  2061.  Anonymous (ID: ib2nYGpy)  01/23/16(Sat)06:12:11 No.61807027▶
  2062. >>61790841
  2063. >tariffs
  2064. >stupid
  2066. Literally read a history book.
  2067. >>
  2068.  Anonymous (ID: qMST6oFZ)  01/23/16(Sat)06:44:47 No.61808386▶
  2069. File: How can mirrors be real?.png (761 KB, 1231x843)
  2070. 761 KB
  2071. >>
  2072.  Anonymous (ID: 2YMutZsX)  01/23/16(Sat)07:09:03 No.61809402▶
  2073. >>61787804
  2074. Ffs, Somalia doesn't not have too little government, is has too much. It has thousands and thousands of shit tier autocratic governments (i.e. war lords) that can't even spell 'Austrian economics'
  2075. >>
  2076.  Anonymous (ID: Nh/lj2mt)  01/23/16(Sat)07:12:15 No.61809547▶
  2077. >>61790755
  2078. >Adam Smith was the father of Classical Economics and remains the most relevant and coherent source of economic thought into the present era
  2079. >Smith
  2080. >Economically coherent
  2081. >Not just vaguely trying to justify this 'Theory of Perfect Liberty'
  2082. >Believing in an objective Labour Theory of Value
  2083. Nigga you dumb. We owe Smith an intellectual debt but most of what he believed and said is irrelevant as fuck to our modern economies
  2084. >>
  2085.  Anonymous (ID: Nh/lj2mt)  01/23/16(Sat)07:19:12 No.61809843▶
  2086. >>61792735
  2087. >Watch and Learn
  2088. >Some stuttering yank not at all addressing the issue he claims to be
  2089. >>
  2090.  Anonymous (ID: veV5Qqj7)  01/23/16(Sat)07:23:36 No.61810031▶
  2091. >>61788537
  2092. Hitler got funded by jewish bankers though senpai
  2093. >>
  2094.  Anonymous (ID: 46ez7mia)  01/23/16(Sat)07:31:27 No.61810363▶>>61811385 >>61813150
  2095. File: 1451322625921.jpg (48 KB, 397x525)
  2096. 48 KB
  2097. currently browsing amazon's choice of Milton Friedman, what would be the best of his works for someone new to him? Thanks for any help
  2098. >>
  2099.  Anonymous (ID: 98maFwmf)  01/23/16(Sat)07:53:52 No.61811385▶
  2100. >>61810363
  2101. capitalism and freedom
  2102. >>
  2103.  Anonymous (ID: GISC/f3q)  01/23/16(Sat)08:33:54 No.61813064▶
  2104. >>61799652
  2106. is there really an example of a market going under and not coming back to supply the demand for something yet needed/wanted?
  2107. >>
  2108.  Anonymous (ID: GISC/f3q)  01/23/16(Sat)08:35:51 No.61813150▶
  2109. >>61810363
  2111. his Free to Choose documentary is on youtube i believe
  2112. >>
  2113.  Anonymous (ID: gFIFKPsz)  01/23/16(Sat)08:37:05 No.61813199▶
  2114. >>61787219 (OP)
  2115. Was this guy an alien or something? We designed slave labor to make our designs possible and then sprinkle them with magic to make them economically feasible.
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  2124. 4chan
  2125. /pol/ - Politically Incorrect
  2127. [Advertise on 4chan]
  2128. Thread archived.
  2129. You cannot reply anymore.
  2131. [Return] [Catalog] [Bottom]Archived / 261 / 18 [Update] [Auto]
  2132. File: 1101651231_400[1].jpg (39 KB, 400x527)
  2133. 39 KB
  2134.  Anonymous (ID: X5K7ACix)  01/24/16(Sun)14:11:59 No.61923840 Archived▶>>61924674 >>61924762 >>61924899 >>61924919 >>61925044 >>61925200 >>61925213 >>61926325 >>61926353 >>61926394 >>61926455 >>61926827 >>61927546 >>61928302 >>61929367 >>61929810 >>61930002 >>61930356 >>61930781 >>61931900 >>61932528 >>61937877 >>61938092 >>61940802 >>61942568 >>61947202 >>61948991
  2135. Why does /pol/ dislike Keynesian economics so much?
  2136. >>
  2137.  Anonymous (ID: BR7FDIlL)  01/24/16(Sun)14:21:56 No.61924674▶>>61936665
  2138. >>61923840 (OP)
  2139. >breaking shit will create jobs :^)
  2140. >>
  2141.  einprozent - hier und heute Widerstand (ID: 0lZ8wdIC)  01/24/16(Sun)14:23:23 No.61924762▶
  2142. >>61923840 (OP)
  2144. >>
  2145.  Anonymous (ID: 7UKLwARL)  01/24/16(Sun)14:23:54 No.61924798▶>>61925131 >>61932566 >>61932869 >>61933202 >>61936027 >>61941942
  2146. /pol/ is full of mouth breathing retards who don't realize that neoliberal economics are the driving force for mass immigration.
  2147. >>
  2148.  Anonymous (ID: KErWe0tN)  01/24/16(Sun)14:24:47 No.61924860▶
  2149. It's criminals thousands of miles away telling hundreds of millions what to do, voted in by morons and criminals.
  2150. >>
  2151.  Anonymous (ID: t0bDVGtH)  01/24/16(Sun)14:25:13 No.61924899▶>>61925002 >>61926799
  2152. >>61923840 (OP)
  2153. Economist here, I don't. Keynesian (and New Keynesian) theory is pretty redpilled, the problem is that the Jews kiked it up and politicized it to match left-wing politics.
  2154. >>
  2155.  Anonymous (ID: /QoHKOZ4)  01/24/16(Sun)14:25:36 No.61924919▶>>61925038 >>61928035 >>61929468 >>61940640
  2156. >>61923840 (OP)
  2157. It's like communism. In theory it could work out fine and dandy, but in reality it ends up being abused by the powerful at the cost of the less powerful.
  2158. >>
  2159.  Anonymous (ID: X5K7ACix)  01/24/16(Sun)14:26:51 No.61925002▶>>61925602 >>61927557
  2160. >>61924899
  2161. >Keynesian (and New Keynesian) theory is pretty redpilled
  2162. please elaborate
  2163. >>
  2164.  Anonymous (ID: t0bDVGtH)  01/24/16(Sun)14:27:16 No.61925038▶>>61925509
  2165. >>61924919
  2166. No, the theory matches reality, it's just abused by the powerful as justification. That's what gives them their power, they're subverting reality for their own purposes
  2167. >>
  2168.  Anonymous (ID: JKE/nlfp)  01/24/16(Sun)14:27:22 No.61925044▶>>61925286
  2169. >>61923840 (OP)
  2170. Because 90% (perhaps more) of /pol/ is economically illiterate.
  2171. >>
  2172.  Anonymous (ID: stOX7ip8)  01/24/16(Sun)14:27:40 No.61925068▶
  2173. it doesnt work
  2174. >>
  2175.  Anonymous (ID: 7fMBiNuP)  01/24/16(Sun)14:28:39 No.61925131▶
  2176. >>61924798
  2177. This.
  2178. >>
  2179.  Anonymous (ID: yYsuGIyY)  01/24/16(Sun)14:29:29 No.61925200▶>>61925762
  2180. >>61923840 (OP)
  2181. Arm chair economists are exclusively in favor of Austrian economics.
  2182. Most business men (aside from the elite top) are in favor of Austrian economics.
  2183. Actual economists are mostly in favor of Austrian economics.
  2184. The average person is not a Keynesian or an Austrian.
  2185. Our governments are Keynesians.
  2187. ::CCC
  2188. >>
  2189.  Anonymous (ID: I2TRH2dN)  01/24/16(Sun)14:29:40 No.61925213▶
  2190. >>61923840 (OP)
  2191. Because Keynesianism is the retarded bullshit that the politicians use to justify doing what they wanted to do anyway: print money.
  2192. >>
  2193.  Anonymous (ID: 5Fy/oK9N)  01/24/16(Sun)14:30:42 No.61925286▶
  2194. >>61925044
  2195. This, but Keynesianism is still pleb tier.
  2196. >>
  2197.  Anonymous (ID: KErWe0tN)  01/24/16(Sun)14:33:37 No.61925509▶>>61925732
  2198. >>61925038
  2199. No, it doesn't.
  2201. It reduces high quality equity into scarcity and kills us all.
  2203. It did not foresee the rise of information economy and specialists.
  2205. It lowers the velocity of money by punishing savers and rewarding access.
  2206. >>
  2207.  Anonymous (ID: t0bDVGtH)  01/24/16(Sun)14:34:52 No.61925602▶>>61925968 >>61926149 >>61926422 >>61928563 >>61942331
  2208. >>61925002
  2209. Keynes recognized the absolute sham that classical economics was, and how it was an intellectual sterilizer that prevented people from thinking clearly about the economy. Economists at that time assumed that the economy was automatically always perfect and efficient because of muh invisible hand and muh rational agents.
  2211. Keynes saw through that and realized that a) people aren't always rational, and b) even when they are rational, their rational actions may be bad for the economy. A good example of this is the Paradox of Thrift- Consumption is a cornerstone of the economy and dependent upon individuals and their perceptions of the economy. When things start going bad, people spend less and save. But this makes the economy worse off, which makes people spend less, and it spirals out of control. The New Keynesians have done a superb job explaining international trade and financial crises.
  2213. But what you do politically is up to the society/government, not economic theory. For example, Keynes viewed a tax cut and government spending as having an equal effect on the economy.
  2214. >>
  2215.  Anonymous (ID: t0bDVGtH)  01/24/16(Sun)14:36:33 No.61925732▶
  2216. >>61925509
  2217. >cites the perversions of the theory
  2218. >economics didn't predict industrial innovation
  2219. >thinks this disproves it
  2220. Sowellbot pls go
  2221. >>
  2222.  Anonymous (ID: GEB6RB2Q)  01/24/16(Sun)14:36:55 No.61925762▶
  2223. >>61925200
  2225. >Actual economists are mostly in favor of Austrian economics.
  2227. PROOFS?
  2228. >>
  2229.  Anonymous (ID: Rt9y/O1v)  01/24/16(Sun)14:40:07 No.61925968▶
  2230. >>61925602
  2231. Hello another question can you please explain to me some of the flaws with Sowell's basic economics book?
  2232. >>
  2233.  Anonymous (ID: I2TRH2dN)  01/24/16(Sun)14:42:23 No.61926149▶>>61926291 >>61926363 >>61927093 >>61927862 >>61940800 >>61941554
  2234. File: Mises-savings-and-capital.jpg (109 KB, 860x598)
  2235. 109 KB
  2236. >>61925602
  2237. >the Paradox of Thrift- Consumption is a cornerstone of the economy and dependent upon individuals and their perceptions of the economy. When things start going bad, people spend less and save. But this makes the economy worse off,
  2239. Lmao it's the other way around. People SHOULD save when "things start going bad".
  2240. >>
  2241.  Anonymous (ID: t0bDVGtH)  01/24/16(Sun)14:44:10 No.61926291▶>>61926494
  2242. >>61926149
  2243. That's the Paradox
  2244. >>
  2245.  Anonymous (ID: kSZJ/Jlq)  01/24/16(Sun)14:44:35 No.61926325▶
  2246. >>61923840 (OP)
  2247. That shit works best in wartime.
  2248. Look at WWII and The Cold War as an example.
  2249. Under a Keynesian system, the best country is a country that has no borders or is always at war.
  2250. >>
  2251.  Anonymous (ID: bqbr370q)  01/24/16(Sun)14:44:58 No.61926353▶
  2252. File: 1440548591276.jpg (76 KB, 615x270)
  2253. 76 KB
  2254. >>61923840 (OP)
  2255. Because it's literally retarded.
  2256. >>
  2257.  Anonymous (ID: +sUF4Qmh)  01/24/16(Sun)14:45:03 No.61926363▶>>61926478 >>61926567 >>61941841
  2258. >>61926149
  2259. 70% of the American GDP is consumption, or at least it was when I last studied economics.
  2261. Think about that.
  2262. >>
  2263.  Anonymous (ID: qGK7d8b+)  01/24/16(Sun)14:45:27 No.61926394▶
  2264. >>61923840 (OP)
  2265. it worked wonders in japan
  2266. >>
  2267.  Anonymous (ID: pmTeDcMK)  01/24/16(Sun)14:45:43 No.61926422▶>>61926478 >>61926567 >>61929032
  2268. >>61925602
  2269. how is consumption the cornerstone of the economy?
  2270. >>
  2271.  Anonymous (ID: ZJLnk4UP)  01/24/16(Sun)14:46:06 No.61926455▶>>61926661
  2272. >>61923840 (OP)
  2273. They pretend printing trillions of dollars is "stimulus" and not inflation
  2274. >>
  2275.  Anonymous (ID: +sUF4Qmh)  01/24/16(Sun)14:46:31 No.61926478▶>>61926580
  2276. >>61926422
  2277. see
  2278. >>61926363
  2279. >>
  2280.  Anonymous (ID: pmTeDcMK)  01/24/16(Sun)14:46:42 No.61926494▶>>61938371
  2281. >>61926291
  2282. that's not a paradox, saving up resources isn't automatically bad
  2283. >>
  2284.  Anonymous (ID: +sUF4Qmh)  01/24/16(Sun)14:47:33 No.61926567▶>>61927129
  2285. >>61926422
  2286. see
  2287. >>61926363
  2289. it's called an "expansionist economy" for a reason.
  2291. it's literally the free market model. the more people that buy shit the better every one is.
  2293. It's why USA has been trying to create free democracies over the world.
  2294. >>
  2295.  Anonymous (ID: pmTeDcMK)  01/24/16(Sun)14:47:42 No.61926580▶
  2296. >>61926478
  2297. >GDP
  2298. >not GO
  2299. >>
  2300.  Anonymous (ID: DtNGVFv7)  01/24/16(Sun)14:48:45 No.61926661▶
  2301. >>61926455
  2302. let's see the inflation numbers of japan after decades of "printing" xD
  2303. >>
  2304.  Anonymous (ID: tnLi8Oc2)  01/24/16(Sun)14:50:40 No.61926799▶
  2305. >>61924899
  2306. >>61924899
  2307. You're a fucking moron. The whole premise of Keynes philosophy is a central bank to 'correct' the market.
  2309. Supply side/Austrian is based.
  2310. >>
  2311.  Anonymous (ID: RQWTzR5T)  01/24/16(Sun)14:51:05 No.61926827▶
  2312. >>61923840 (OP)
  2313. /pol/ doesn't like things that work. That's seriously undercut the board population's ability to complain about things
  2314. >>
  2315.  Anonymous (ID: K6FL3L3L)  01/24/16(Sun)14:53:10 No.61926993▶>>61927455 >>61928539
  2316. File: 1435186030954.jpg (49 KB, 647x340)
  2317. 49 KB
  2318. Keynesianism might have some validity, but not when it comes to governments appropriating their citizen's wealth via slavery (forced taxation with national debt). Let the markets work themselves out via supply and demand. Subsidization is a meme.
  2319. >>
  2320.  Anonymous (ID: RQWTzR5T)  01/24/16(Sun)14:54:34 No.61927093▶>>61927224 >>61927980 >>61928150 >>61941841
  2321. >>61926149
  2322. >not understanding how a high savings/investment ration in a situation of lowered consumption levels actually dooms the economy to enter a vicious cycle of stagnation and declining wages
  2324. Tip kok
  2325. >>
  2326.  Anonymous (ID: I2TRH2dN)  01/24/16(Sun)14:55:04 No.61927129▶>>61927400 >>61940428
  2327. >>61926567
  2328. An increased standard of living comes from higher productivity. You need savings, that you can then invest, in order to achieve higher productivity.
  2330. Read Mises. Keynesians have it wrong.
  2331. >>
  2332.  Anonymous (ID: I2TRH2dN)  01/24/16(Sun)14:56:14 No.61927224▶>>61927363 >>61927383
  2333. File: sowell_1.jpg (32 KB, 640x325)
  2334. 32 KB
  2335. >>61927093
  2336. >Not knowing that that's not how it works
  2337. >>
  2338.  Anonymous (ID: JKE/nlfp)  01/24/16(Sun)14:58:12 No.61927363▶
  2339. >>61927224
  2340. Solid argument there, bro. Completely btfo the other guy.
  2341. >>
  2342.  Anonymous (ID: RQWTzR5T)  01/24/16(Sun)14:58:27 No.61927383▶
  2343. >>61927224
  2344. >literally no counter-argument, just a reaction image of the shill house nigger
  2345. >telling people to read shit by the man that literally admitted even his most basic theories are all disproven if you look at empirical evidence but that you should still believe them anyway
  2347. You Austrians are always good for a laugh
  2348. >>
  2349.  Anonymous (ID: pmTeDcMK)  01/24/16(Sun)14:58:34 No.61927400▶>>61927989
  2350. >>61927129
  2351. exactly
  2353. Savings and UNDER-CONSUMPTION is the first step of economic growth
  2355. Socialists and Keynes contstantly undermine true capitalism
  2356. >>
  2357.  Anonymous (ID: DtNGVFv7)  01/24/16(Sun)14:59:24 No.61927455▶>>61927741
  2358. >>61926993
  2359. >(forced taxation with national debt)
  2360. what on earth does that even mean
  2361. >>
  2362.  American Free-Market Specialist !MArkeTzDAY (ID: 67+8l+FO)  01/24/16(Sun)14:59:52 No.61927492▶
  2363. Because it's shit economics and it punishes taxpayers.
  2365. Holy fucking shit man. It's just a contrived excuse to give gifts to your political allies.
  2366. >>
  2367.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)15:00:37 No.61927544▶
  2368. File: schiff-was-right-krugman-(...).jpg (5 KB, 300x169)
  2369. 5 KB
  2370. Top kek lads.
  2373. >>
  2374.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)15:00:40 No.61927546▶>>61927706
  2375. >>61923840 (OP)
  2377. Because they don't understand economics.
  2378. >>
  2379.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)15:00:48 No.61927557▶
  2380. >>61925002
  2382. Also the push for welfare doesn't actually extend from Keynes himself.
  2384. And quantitative easing was invented by Milton Friedman.
  2386. What Keynes would suggest we do is rebuild the roads and the powergrid, and then let the market take over again. Keynes argued that government should do more in bad times and do nothing in good times.
  2388. I have problems with it but he is correct here.
  2389. >>
  2390.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)15:03:05 No.61927706▶
  2391. >>61927546
  2393. Give it time. People get tired of Libertarians and then fix the economy without them.
  2394. >>
  2395.  Anonymous (ID: pmTeDcMK)  01/24/16(Sun)15:03:46 No.61927741▶>>61928470
  2396. >>61927455
  2397. governments only income is from taxation - so when they run up a debt they are forcing a tax on you or your children at some point to pay for it
  2398. >>
  2399.  Anonymous (ID: cPPUVilE)  01/24/16(Sun)15:04:05 No.61927759▶
  2400. Problem with Keynes is that Say's law is true.
  2401. >>
  2402.  Anonymous (ID: 6vxfv328)  01/24/16(Sun)15:05:37 No.61927862▶
  2403. >>61926149
  2404. >spain
  2405. >arguing about economics
  2407. what are you trying to pull here pal
  2408. >>
  2409.  Anonymous (ID: iUcoRbml)  01/24/16(Sun)15:07:10 No.61927980▶
  2410. >>61927093
  2411. >declining prices for labor would lead declining prices for everything else
  2412. >declining prices for anything cannot be anticipated by producers, but rising prices can be
  2414. keynes was a mathematician, not an economist.
  2415. >>
  2416.  Anonymous (ID: 6vxfv328)  01/24/16(Sun)15:07:15 No.61927989▶>>61928160
  2417. >>61927400
  2418. a decline in spending will cause investment to collapse, not rise. see: accelerator effect.
  2419. >>
  2420.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)15:07:56 No.61928035▶
  2421. >>61924919
  2422. >like communism. In theory it could work out fine and dandy
  2423. No, it can't. People who say this don't understand what communism is.
  2424. >>
  2425.  Anonymous (ID: iUcoRbml)  01/24/16(Sun)15:09:57 No.61928150▶>>61928687
  2426. >>61927093
  2427. >i believe in an evidence-driven science of economics
  2428. >it's not an a priori, logical discipline like mathematics is
  2429. >i listen to a mathematician who told me something which all the evidence ever collected in the history of the world disproves
  2430. fucking flawless right here, deserves a second reply
  2431. >>
  2432.  Anonymous (ID: pmTeDcMK)  01/24/16(Sun)15:10:08 No.61928160▶>>61928465 >>61929108
  2433. >>61927989
  2434. not necessarily - all savings is just potential spending
  2436. if there is a decline is spending that makes a bigger opportunity for the entrepreneur
  2437. >>
  2438.  Thaddeus !QNARnDd6so (ID: vJyM1Km2)  01/24/16(Sun)15:12:00 No.61928302▶>>61928535
  2439. >>61923840 (OP)
  2440. Requires a cycle where people are supposed to save, of course that doesn't happen in reality and people rack up debt.
  2441. >>
  2442.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)15:14:17 No.61928465▶>>61929272
  2443. >>61928160
  2445. No you dumbass. Investors invest in profitable companies. Where do profits come from? Sales. Where do sales come from? Consumers.
  2447. When there are no consumers (because of mass unemployment or what have you), there are no profitable businesses and therefore no avenues for investment.
  2448. >>
  2449.  Anonymous (ID: DtNGVFv7)  01/24/16(Sun)15:14:18 No.61928470▶>>61928970 >>61941380
  2450. >>61927741
  2451. governments are not households, my friend. a government spending the currency which they themselves issue doesn't need to tax to spend. the "debt" they are running up is, in fact, a surplus for the private sector.
  2452. >>
  2453.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)15:15:16 No.61928535▶
  2454. >>61928302
  2456. People being in debt has more to do with the way money / banking works than anything else.
  2457. >>
  2458.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)15:15:21 No.61928539▶>>61928629
  2459. >>61926993
  2460. >forced taxation
  2461. All taxation is forced. That's what makes it taxation, and not just a service fee.
  2462. >>
  2463.  American Free-Market Specialist !MArkeTzDAY (ID: 67+8l+FO)  01/24/16(Sun)15:15:44 No.61928563▶>>61928923 >>61929414 >>61940286
  2464. >>61925602
  2466. > a) people aren't always rational,
  2468. That's right. Some people make bad choices, and a free market punishes them for those bad choices.
  2470. >and b) even when they are rational, their rational actions may be bad for the economy. A good example of this is the Paradox of Thrift- Consumption
  2472. You say it's "bad for the economy." I strongly disagree. I'd rather say it's "bad for unproductive individuals." A recession can be a great time for trimming the fat off of the economy. Shitty businesses can go bust, lazy workers can get fired, and people that don't save can starve to death. This is the free market at work. We need to purge the bad blood from time to time. You'd rather protect shitty people at the taxpayer's expense.
  2473. >>
  2474.  Anonymous (ID: K6FL3L3L)  01/24/16(Sun)15:16:24 No.61928629▶>>61941648
  2475. >>61928539
  2476. Tell that to Greece.
  2477. >>
  2478.  Anonymous (ID: RQWTzR5T)  01/24/16(Sun)15:17:18 No.61928687▶>>61929561
  2479. >>61928150
  2480. >all the evidence collected in the history of the world disproves
  2482. Oh, I'd very much like to see all that evidence. Especially all the evidence and data on GDP pre-WWI, must be oodles of that yes?
  2484. Also:
  2485. >mathematician makes the most cogent points and drives an era of unprecedented growth, renews economics into an actual social science instead of glorified philosophy
  2486. >nope, better keep on believing the shills who were never taken seriously by anyone because they speak common sense, that ought to show them!
  2487. >>
  2488.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)15:20:20 No.61928923▶>>61929289 >>61929416
  2489. >>61928563
  2491. LOL - it seems that you think this has more to do with political philosophy than actual economics. You're saying that unemployment is "trimming off the fat" and bankruptcy is "social hygiene" or something. It is obvious that you have no idea at all what you are talking about.
  2492. >>
  2493.  Anonymous (ID: +yHySRUN)  01/24/16(Sun)15:20:22 No.61928927▶>>61929278
  2494. File: krugman.png (487 KB, 512x683)
  2495. 487 KB
  2496. Never trust a nigga that says an alien invasion would be good for the economy
  2498. [Embed]
  2499. >>
  2500.  Anonymous (ID: I2TRH2dN)  01/24/16(Sun)15:21:03 No.61928970▶>>61929196 >>61929266 >>61929428 >>61941380
  2501. >>61928470
  2502. Every penny a government spends is comes from taxes.
  2504. If they printed it you're losing purchasing power. There’s no free lunch here.
  2505. >>
  2506.  Anonymous (ID: 07z19vGI)  01/24/16(Sun)15:21:43 No.61929032▶>>61929627
  2507. >>61926422
  2509. One mans spending is another mans income.
  2510. >>
  2511.  Anonymous (ID: 07z19vGI)  01/24/16(Sun)15:22:36 No.61929108▶
  2512. >>61928160
  2514. Look up Paradox of thrift
  2515. >>
  2516.  Anonymous (ID: 07z19vGI)  01/24/16(Sun)15:23:33 No.61929196▶
  2517. >>61928970
  2519. Arguably modern fiat money gains its power from its ability to extinguish tax liabilities.
  2520. >>
  2521.  Anonymous (ID: DtNGVFv7)  01/24/16(Sun)15:24:21 No.61929266▶
  2522. >>61928970
  2523. where did the penny "comes from taxes" come from?
  2524. it was spent into existence by the currency issuer.
  2525. >>
  2526.  Anonymous (ID: iUcoRbml)  01/24/16(Sun)15:24:25 No.61929272▶>>61929542
  2527. >>61928465
  2528. >when there are no consumers
  2529. oh okay yeah like that time you went 2-3 years without wanting to buy toilet paper or food.
  2530. >nofundz detected
  2531. investors /risk/ money in profitable /ideas/ they don't just wait for a sure thing and then hop on the bandwagon.
  2532. >>
  2533.  Anonymous (ID: I2TRH2dN)  01/24/16(Sun)15:24:30 No.61929278▶
  2534. >>61928927
  2535. It's incredible how fucking retarded keynesians are. Krugman has actually said that the broken window fallacy is not a fallacy.
  2536. >>
  2537.  Anonymous (ID: RQWTzR5T)  01/24/16(Sun)15:24:37 No.61929289▶>>61930156 >>61930379
  2538. >>61928923
  2539. The idea of a business cycle, or what short-run is gets lost on people like that
  2541. Just smile and nod, like you'd do with someone who's mentally retarded
  2542. >>
  2543.  Anonymous (ID: 5r5IXPDv)  01/24/16(Sun)15:25:25 No.61929367▶
  2544. File: keynesianjobcreation.jpg (338 KB, 450x3082)
  2545. 338 KB
  2546. >>61923840 (OP)
  2547. Because it's fucking stupid.
  2548. >>
  2549.  Anonymous (ID: iUcoRbml)  01/24/16(Sun)15:25:52 No.61929414▶
  2550. >>61928563
  2551. bad choices are still rational choices. there's no such thing as "irrational consumer behavior" because irrational behavior is by definition not purposed. all consumer behavior is a subset of all human behavior, which is intrinsically rational.
  2552. >>
  2553.  American Free-Market Specialist !MArkeTzDAY (ID: 67+8l+FO)  01/24/16(Sun)15:25:54 No.61929416▶
  2554. >>61928923
  2556. I know precisely what I'm talking about.
  2558. The people that took out mortgages pre-2008 weren't forced to do so. They chose to take on loans that they couldn't repay. They lost their homes because they're stupid and irresponsible.
  2559. >>
  2560.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)15:26:01 No.61929428▶
  2561. >>61928970
  2563. >if they printed it you're losing purchasing power
  2564. >Quantity Theory of Money
  2566. jej
  2567. >>
  2568.  Anonymous (ID: 5r5IXPDv)  01/24/16(Sun)15:26:32 No.61929468▶
  2569. >>61924919
  2570. >communism works in theory
  2571. Can this meme die? No it fucking doesn't. Marx never even laid out how it was supposed to work in the first place. There is no theory.
  2572. >>
  2573.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)15:27:18 No.61929542▶>>61929846
  2574. >>61929272
  2576. >oh okay yeah like that time you went 2-3 years without wanting to buy toilet paper or food.
  2578. What I want has nothing to with it. If I don't have any money I can't buy shit. I can't believe neoliberals are so stupid that they base all of their economic theories on the presupposition that everyone has plenty of money.
  2579. >>
  2580.  Anonymous (ID: iUcoRbml)  01/24/16(Sun)15:27:28 No.61929561▶
  2581. >>61928687
  2582. >contends stagflation is real
  2583. >asks me to prove a negative by showing him the evidence
  2584. its in iraq of course
  2585. >>
  2586.  Anonymous (ID: pmTeDcMK)  01/24/16(Sun)15:28:04 No.61929627▶>>61929761
  2587. >>61929032
  2588. but you have to produce something before you can spend anything
  2590. so production is always 1st
  2592. so production is the cornerstone of the economy
  2593. >>
  2594.  Anonymous (ID: 07z19vGI)  01/24/16(Sun)15:29:30 No.61929761▶>>61929945
  2595. >>61929627
  2597. Doesn't matter after you have enough people chasing monopoly money.
  2598. >>
  2599.  Anonymous (ID: BygPpFXm)  01/24/16(Sun)15:30:03 No.61929810▶
  2600. File: keynesian economics.gif (973 KB, 500x372)
  2601. 973 KB
  2602. >>61923840 (OP)
  2603. >>
  2604.  Anonymous (ID: iUcoRbml)  01/24/16(Sun)15:30:25 No.61929846▶
  2605. >>61929542
  2606. but that's literally retarded. now you're telling me the investors don't have any money either, but the reason they won't invest their money is because there's no profitable businesses, not because they don't have any. what made you think consumers and producers are mutually exclusive categories of actors? also, you're not talking to a neoliberal.
  2607. >>
  2608.  Anonymous (ID: iUcoRbml)  01/24/16(Sun)15:31:32 No.61929945▶>>61930151
  2609. >>61929761
  2610. they're not chasing the money, they're chasing goods. money is a means to an end. you can't eat electronic digits.
  2611. >>
  2612.  Anonymous (ID: GSAx8M2/)  01/24/16(Sun)15:32:12 No.61930002▶>>61930432 >>61931548
  2613. File: keynes coal2.png (791 KB, 748x992)
  2614. 791 KB
  2615. >>61923840 (OP)
  2616. Coal mines.
  2617. >>
  2618.  Anonymous (ID: 07z19vGI)  01/24/16(Sun)15:34:01 No.61930151▶>>61930305
  2619. >>61929945
  2621. You can if people think they are real.
  2622. >>
  2623.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)15:34:04 No.61930156▶>>61930873
  2624. >>61929289
  2626. I'm triggered
  2627. >>
  2628.  Anonymous (ID: pmTeDcMK)  01/24/16(Sun)15:35:42 No.61930305▶>>61930467
  2629. >>61930151
  2630. kek 6/10
  2632. almost thought you weren't trolling
  2633. >>
  2634.  Anonymous (ID: 7PJWdYqP)  01/24/16(Sun)15:36:19 No.61930356▶>>61931263
  2635. >>61923840 (OP)
  2636. Because it's actually complex and backed up by mathematical concepts that the average /pol/tard cannot ever hope to understand.
  2637. It's not that /pol/ even dislikes Keynesian economics, it's just that Austrian economics is so simple that a braindead monkey could understand it since it's pretty much just thought experiments and "common sense". There's no real quantitative understanding required, just "Fixing a broken window does not create wealth, thus libertarianism. QED"
  2639. Never mind that it's wrong, it's simple enough to understand, so that makes it better in the eyes of most.
  2640. >>
  2641.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)15:36:35 No.61930379▶
  2642. >>61929289
  2643. >The idea of a business cycle
  2644. Is what you get when you have an expansionary credit system that artificially increases investment and production above sustainable levels, at which point it will come crashing down.
  2646. It's like stalling an aircraft. You haul back on the stick, and you'll gain altitude at first. But eventually, you run out of airspeed and the nose will start to drop. The answer to this is not to keep hauling back in order to "stimulate" the aircraft into gaining more altitude, you let it drop and pick up speed so that it can naturally correct your mistake.
  2647. >>
  2648.  Anonymous (ID: ulSOEmZp)  01/24/16(Sun)15:37:16 No.61930432▶>>61930613
  2649. >>61930002
  2651. That'd be exactly how gold standard would work.
  2652. >>
  2653.  Anonymous (ID: 07z19vGI)  01/24/16(Sun)15:37:34 No.61930467▶>>61931791
  2654. >>61930305
  2656. I'm not trolling.
  2657. >>
  2658.  Anonymous (ID: UME5bgSr)  01/24/16(Sun)15:38:50 No.61930577▶
  2659. Because eventually the bills come and you have to pay them.
  2661. Enjoy kids. Your parents did this to you.
  2662. >>
  2663.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)15:39:19 No.61930613▶>>61932040
  2664. >>61930432
  2665. Except you cannot print and bury more gold once all the gold is found.
  2666. >>
  2667.  American Free-Market Specialist !MArkeTzDAY (ID: 67+8l+FO)  01/24/16(Sun)15:41:06 No.61930764▶>>61930888 >>61930929 >>61945225
  2668. Keynesians: give me an example of a policy that would "help" during a recession and I'll tell you why it's shit.
  2669. >>
  2670.  Anonymous (ID: iUcoRbml)  01/24/16(Sun)15:41:19 No.61930781▶>>61931756
  2671. >>61923840 (OP)
  2672. to answer this actual question, though, i have no idea why AND it makes no sense to me: assuming /pol/ truly is a majority natsoc, there should be absolutely no complaints whatsoever with keynes. he literally based the entire general theory on nazi germany and states it explicitly in the book's preface. he did it all on his own; it is by definition without the taint of neokeynesian ideas you see from today's bloggers, economists and tv commentators.
  2674. keynesian and neokeynesian policies' constant failure in the united states demonstrate that nazi germany would have had just as many problems if not more had they survived intact, that a command economy cannot be sustained for very long and must undergo a recession or depression to liquidate malinvestments, and that natsoc is not an economic panacea by any means whatsoever, not even by half.
  2676. but at least you'd be consistent.
  2677. >>
  2678.  Anonymous (ID: RQWTzR5T)  01/24/16(Sun)15:42:32 No.61930873▶
  2679. >>61930156
  2680. I generally calm myself by remembering I'm discussing with people who are literally economically illiterate, who cannot build economic arguments with needing to recur to shitty little analogies because they simply didn't learn the most basic concepts of economic study
  2682. Dunning-Krueger explains perfectly anyone who defends Austrian "economics" and supply-side arguments
  2683. >>
  2684.  Anonymous (ID: 07z19vGI)  01/24/16(Sun)15:42:45 No.61930888▶>>61931200 >>61931756
  2685. >>61930764
  2687. Government uses tax money collected during a boom to spend on infrastructure.
  2688. >>
  2689.  Anonymous (ID: DtNGVFv7)  01/24/16(Sun)15:43:14 No.61930929▶>>61931200 >>61931756
  2690. >>61930764
  2691. a job guarantee
  2692. >>
  2693.  Anonymous (ID: GDXRLqsB)  01/24/16(Sun)15:43:29 No.61930958▶>>61942182
  2694. [Embed]
  2696. /pol/ is Hayek. Freshwater.
  2697. >>
  2698.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)15:46:33 No.61931200▶>>61931738 >>61932090 >>61932165
  2699. >>61930888
  2700. Why wouldn't they reduce the tax burden during this time, and let people save it as they see fit?
  2702. >>61930929
  2703. How do you guarantee a job that is not economically viable and apparently has no demand? Through tax money? You have to take that from someone else. Through debt? The individual is better off borrowing money and changing careers, than digging ditches in an artificial and unsustainable make-work program.
  2704. >>
  2705.  Anonymous (ID: PHaubGrJ)  01/24/16(Sun)15:47:15 No.61931263▶
  2706. >>61930356
  2707. What the fuck are you talking about? Keynesianism is not backed up by shit more so than Austrian.
  2709. Keynesianism uses the CIGX equation, and relies on consumer spending to drive economy. Austrian economics uses a supply/demand of savings, and relies on demand for debt to level out excess savings to drive the economy.
  2711. I mean, neither are fucking rocket science. But you have to be blatantly retarded not to see the failure of Keynesianism. After all, it's the socialist take on a school of economics, so to no one's surprise, it's failing hard.
  2712. >>
  2713.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)15:51:00 No.61931548▶>>61931702
  2714. >>61930002
  2715. This is how stagflation happens.
  2717. Labor that doesn't increase supply is where Keynes failed in the 70s. Needless to say, this mistake should never be repeated.
  2719. Austrians still suck though.
  2720. >>
  2721.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)15:52:48 No.61931702▶
  2722. >>61931548
  2723. This insight, btw, could do a lot of good of finding the "true" limits of over government
  2724. >>
  2725.  Anonymous (ID: 07z19vGI)  01/24/16(Sun)15:53:16 No.61931738▶>>61933725
  2726. >>61931200
  2728. >Why wouldn't they reduce the tax burden during this time, and let people save it as they see fit?
  2730. Because there is a boom and a bust cycle.
  2732. By spending on infrastructure during a bust they increase spending and remember that one persons spending is another persons income.
  2733. >>
  2734.  American Free-Market Specialist !MArkeTzDAY (ID: 67+8l+FO)  01/24/16(Sun)15:53:29 No.61931756▶>>61932103 >>61932167
  2735. >>61930781
  2737. NatSocs hate the free market. The OP is wrong about thinking most of /pol/ is against Keynesianims.
  2739. >>61930888
  2741. Government infrastructure is not build efficiently. See: US Interstate system. The jobs created here are mere busywork at the taxpayer's expense. It'd be better for the economy if you just gave the tax money back. The real kicker about an infrastructure project is that politicians get to give juicy contracts to their pals.
  2743. >>61930929
  2745. A job is either worth the wage or not. If it is, the market provides. If it isn't, the taxpayer is subsidizing it. Your policy would either take money from taxpayers to give people busywork, or you'd inflate the money supply to pay for the busywork. Either way, you're taking money out of people's pockets and putting it into other pockets. Productivity has not increased.
  2746. >>
  2747.  Anonymous (ID: pmTeDcMK)  01/24/16(Sun)15:53:55 No.61931791▶>>61932350
  2748. >>61930467
  2749. OK, well we all understand we can create lots of jobs lots of ways
  2751. Nuking big cities for example (think of all the work we would have to do to rebuild)
  2753. But the point is that it wouldn't make us more wealthy - it would make us poorer.
  2755. Same with wasting time digging around abandoned coal mines, its a waste of time and doesn't add value to society.
  2757. Makes society poorer compared to one that doesn't play such games
  2758. >>
  2759.  Anonymous (ID: 1+nKtK8C)  01/24/16(Sun)15:55:10 No.61931900▶
  2760. >>61923840 (OP)
  2761. Centralises power in government hands, and creates recurring financial crises
  2762. >>
  2763.  Anonymous (ID: ulSOEmZp)  01/24/16(Sun)15:56:41 No.61932040▶
  2764. >>61930613
  2766. What difference does it make in todays' economy of what happens when the earth runs out of gold, perhaps after few centuries? Gold works just like a printed money hidden underground would work.
  2768. And besides, strectching it to that far, you can't print money either after humanity has gone extint.
  2769. >>
  2770.  Anonymous (ID: 5R7Jm6iQ)  01/24/16(Sun)15:57:19 No.61932090▶>>61933725
  2771. >>61931200
  2772. Investment and saving goes down during times of economic recession. It is more difficult to get loans and less less interest is made on money put into stocks, portfolios, savings deposits than would be made on money during times of economic expansion.
  2774. People won't save, they'll spend. Unless you consider saving to be stored under a mattress. If that is the case, than there will be extremely stunted economic growth because less money will be put into the financial market, and less investment can be made. You will be dependent on consumption alone to save the economy, which while it does constitute a large portion of the GDP, is not the entire GDP.
  2776. On the same boat with interest and investment, loans are difficult to come by too. Banks don't give anyone who is capable of signing their name a loan during a depression. Nor do employers hire anyone with a functioning brain. They will be unusually selective, because both branches want to keep their assets and money secure.
  2778. Keyne's purpose for including the government is because the government does nit abide by the expenditure multiplier. By that I mean the government does not spend a certian percentage of their money, and saves the rest. It will spend all money gained by taxes in a 1:1 ratio (unlike people, who if given a tax break, will only spend a certain amount of that money).
  2780. Keynes does not advocate for big govt, in fact he is against it. Keynes argues that government intervention in the economy is necessary only during times of economic recession. Govt is the training wheels of the economy to prevent the whole bike from collapsing.
  2781. >>
  2782.  Anonymous (ID: 07z19vGI)  01/24/16(Sun)15:57:27 No.61932103▶>>61932523
  2783. >>61931756
  2785. >It'd be better for the economy if you just gave the tax money back.
  2787. Your forgetting than different income levels have differing marginal propensities to save.
  2789. High income earning typically save more and low income earners spend every penny. The tax break you are proposing would have the most impact on the people that spend the least.
  2791. This is also why giving money to poor people increases GDP more than giving money or tax breaks for the wealthy.
  2792. >>
  2793.  Anonymous (ID: DtNGVFv7)  01/24/16(Sun)15:58:09 No.61932165▶>>61932424 >>61933725
  2794. >>61931200
  2796. i'll just look past the buzzwords. keystrokes on a computer will create tax credits (money) which will then be given to the workers in exchange for their labor.
  2798. having unemployment = unused resources = living below one's means
  2799. >>
  2800.  Anonymous (ID: xVtVlmae)  01/24/16(Sun)15:58:10 No.61932167▶
  2801. >>61931756
  2803. Nat Soc are just Leftists light, and sadly very prominent here.
  2805. But what to you expect?
  2806. >>
  2807.  Anonymous (ID: 07z19vGI)  01/24/16(Sun)16:00:01 No.61932350▶
  2808. >>61931791
  2810. >OK, well we all understand we can create lots of jobs lots of ways
  2811. $1 blowjobs x million dick = millionaire
  2812. >>
  2813.  Anonymous (ID: xVtVlmae)  01/24/16(Sun)16:00:59 No.61932424▶>>61932726
  2814. >>61932165
  2816. Define unused resources and living below one's means.
  2818. Because according to your statement families and children and housewifes are not a thing.
  2819. >>
  2820.  American Free-Market Specialist !MArkeTzDAY (ID: 67+8l+FO)  01/24/16(Sun)16:02:06 No.61932523▶>>61932770 >>61933531
  2821. >>61932103
  2823. I'm not forgetting.
  2825. >This is also why giving money to poor people increases GDP more than giving money or tax breaks for the wealthy.
  2827. It increases GDP more immediately, but not in the long run. More saving is better for economic growth.
  2829. Obviously, if you give money to poor people it will help them in the short run, and it will even stimulate consumption to give them more jobs in the short run. However, I'm arguing about what's best for the economy, not what's best for poor people.
  2831. Keynesianism is absolutely great for helping the poor through a recession. I don't care about the poor, though.
  2832. >>
  2833.  Anonymous (ID: I2TRH2dN)  01/24/16(Sun)16:02:09 No.61932528▶
  2834. File: c83335dbf12c70c3150c22918(...).jpg (93 KB, 736x739)
  2835. 93 KB
  2836. >>61923840 (OP)
  2837. >>
  2838.  Anonymous (ID: hYAMGoBb)  01/24/16(Sun)16:02:40 No.61932566▶>>61932869
  2839. >>61924798
  2840. I'm quite aware of this.
  2841. >>
  2842.  Anonymous (ID: DtNGVFv7)  01/24/16(Sun)16:04:39 No.61932726▶>>61932820
  2843. >>61932424
  2844. nothing against families and children if it's a choice. in the context of a job guarantee, what I meant is that everyone who is willing to work should be given the chance to do so for public purpose (because otherwise the potential fruit of their labor is lost = society lives below its means).
  2845. >>
  2846.  Anonymous (ID: 07z19vGI)  01/24/16(Sun)16:05:12 No.61932770▶
  2847. >>61932523
  2849. >More saving is better for economic growth.
  2850. Yes this is where the money for investing comes from.
  2852. >I don't care about the poor, though.
  2854. Good neither do I. Welfare is essentially a state subsidy for junk food producers and slumlords.
  2855. >>
  2856.  Anonymous (ID: xVtVlmae)  01/24/16(Sun)16:05:51 No.61932820▶>>61942106
  2857. >>61932726
  2859. Define public purpose.
  2860. >>
  2861.  American Free-Market Specialist !MArkeTzDAY (ID: 67+8l+FO)  01/24/16(Sun)16:06:26 No.61932869▶>>61933188 >>61937443
  2862. >>61924798
  2863. >>61932566
  2865. On that note, I'd say that there should be nothing wrong with the free movement of workers.
  2867. Giving citizenship out like candy is a problem, though.
  2869. If it were up to me, I'd let people work in my country as long as they were currently employed. And I'd make the company they're employed with somewhat responsible for them - an endorsement of sorts.
  2871. Citizenship should be restricted to the child of two citizens, and naturalization should be highly selective.
  2872. >>
  2873.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)16:10:13 No.61933188▶
  2874. >>61932869
  2876. No one is interested in your opinions Mr. Ubermensch
  2877. >>
  2878.  Anonymous (ID: 8ktiCki2)  01/24/16(Sun)16:10:24 No.61933202▶
  2879. >>61924798
  2880. Well, you're not wrong.
  2881. >>
  2882.  Anonymous (ID: ulSOEmZp)  01/24/16(Sun)16:14:28 No.61933531▶>>61934008
  2883. >>61932523
  2885. >It increases GDP more immediately, but not in the long run. More saving is better for economic growth.
  2887. Yes, through increased productivity with more concentrated investments, right? How do you account the wasted resources of unemployed people? How about the missed opportunities to improve one's skill in fields, which might produce empowering innovations in the future? How can you be sure it's better for the long-term productivity to let millions of people lay stressing about their daily bread instead of actually improving their knowledge and skills?
  2889. How about Clayten Christensens' Capitalist dilemma?
  2890. >>
  2891.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)16:16:51 No.61933725▶
  2892. >>61931738
  2893. >Because there is a boom and a bust cycle.
  2894. The boom and bust cycle (in the magnitude you're talking about) is not some natural phenomenon, it's caused by something. That something is a large increase in credit supply. Cut that out and you won't need to fix anything.
  2896. >>61932090
  2897. >Banks don't give anyone who is capable of signing their name a loan during a depression.
  2898. This is a good thing, because this exact thing is the cause of the depression in the first place.
  2900. >>61932165
  2901. >in exchange for their labor
  2902. There is evidently no demand for the product of that labor (otherwise that labor would be employed), so you might as well just skip the song and dance and print money and give it to the unemployed. When you increase the money supply, you ultimately get inflation. That means everyone pays for that guy to be sweeping the street through a decrease in their purchasing power. If you wouldn't think it's a good idea for you to personally subsidize someone's unneeded labor in a recession or depression, why do you think it's a good idea for the government to do it? It's ultimately the same thing, because it's money coming out of YOUR pocket.
  2903. >>
  2904.  American Free-Market Specialist !MArkeTzDAY (ID: 67+8l+FO)  01/24/16(Sun)16:20:14 No.61934008▶>>61934540
  2905. >>61933531
  2907. Ideally they'd live in a free market where skills training is highly available. You know it's practically illegal for an employer to train someone without paying them, in the USA?
  2909. And I'm not aware of what dilemma you're talking about, but I'm reading his article right now.
  2910. >>
  2911.  Anonymous (ID: uwt27sk0)  01/24/16(Sun)16:23:54 No.61934299▶>>61936155
  2912. File: 1289075770738.png (142 KB, 425x290)
  2913. 142 KB
  2914. The core component of Keynesian policy making was the Philips Curve.
  2916. The Philips Curve got debunked hard in the 70's.
  2917. Not by some theory or academics, but by real life itself.
  2919. The fact that there are people who still take Keynesianism seriously shows how retarded statists can be. They would defend anything, no matter how indefensible, so long as it gave the state, and by extension their favorite politicians, more control over people's lives.
  2920. >>
  2921.  Anonymous (ID: ulSOEmZp)  01/24/16(Sun)16:26:54 No.61934540▶>>61934763 >>61935054
  2922. >>61934008
  2924. >Ideally they'd live in a free market where skills training is highly available.
  2926. What the hell? Is Nirvana really the only thing you can come up with?
  2928. So in a economic situation in which economy is crashing, the ability to consume(including to skill-building services) and unemployement is booming, one should not interfere, but rather let people just save up more. And when that logic is questioned you just start claiming there is no such situation in ideal world. What?
  2929. >>
  2930.  American Free-Market Specialist !MArkeTzDAY (ID: 67+8l+FO)  01/24/16(Sun)16:29:27 No.61934763▶
  2931. >>61934540
  2933. I'm not going to defend free markets in an American context. We don't have free markets. Keynes may very well be a great thing for America as it currently stands. I'm not going to defend employment laws here.
  2934. >>
  2935.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)16:32:54 No.61935054▶>>61935403
  2936. >>61934540
  2937. >one should not interfere, but rather let people just save up more.
  2938. Yes. And then subsequently remove the impetus for future economic crashes by changing monetary policy and banking laws.
  2939. >>
  2940.  Anonymous (ID: ulSOEmZp)  01/24/16(Sun)16:37:03 No.61935403▶>>61935858
  2941. >>61935054
  2943. The problem is such tranquility without crashes have never proven to work. Especially not by freeing up markets. Quite opposite actually. Most of regulation is added AFTER the system was proven to be inherently unstable as fuck.
  2945. But yeah, keep living in the fantasy world. Don't expect to convince anyone else, though.
  2946. >>
  2947.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)16:42:56 No.61935858▶>>61936161 >>61936806 >>61937132
  2948. >>61935403
  2949. >Especially not by freeing up markets.
  2950. Historically, it is when markets were freest that you saw the smallest business cycle effects. The recent century of regulation was done within a market framework that can hardly be called "free", especially when the banking system is to blame.
  2951. >>
  2952.  Anonymous (ID: 5Y66ycsb)  01/24/16(Sun)16:45:00 No.61936027▶
  2953. >>61924798
  2954. /pol/ destroyed in one sentence
  2955. >>
  2956.  Anonymous (ID: a/zIJ0Jc)  01/24/16(Sun)16:46:37 No.61936155▶
  2957. >>61934299
  2958. Spread this to your neighbors in your country, seems we are headed your way.
  2959. >>
  2960.  Anonymous (ID: ulSOEmZp)  01/24/16(Sun)16:46:41 No.61936161▶>>61937476
  2961. >>61935858
  2963. When exactly? In 19th century when United States spend more than 40% of it's time in recession and managed to cook up probably the biggest economic crash the world has ever known?
  2964. >>
  2965.  Anonymous (ID: WfyeFU9d)  01/24/16(Sun)16:53:08 No.61936665▶
  2966. >>61924674
  2967. Du er et fjols
  2968. >>
  2969.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)16:55:02 No.61936806▶
  2970. >>61935858
  2972. lol are you kidding? 19th C America was free banking and you had business cycles literally one after another. Basically the entire period between 1865-1907 was pure monetary chaos.
  2973. >>
  2974.  Anonymous (ID: gb/KQ4sa)  01/24/16(Sun)16:58:27 No.61937077▶>>61937512
  2975. What use is a strong economy if no one has money to spend in it?
  2976. >>
  2977.  Anonymous (ID: VH4Cgg2E)  01/24/16(Sun)16:59:09 No.61937132▶
  2978. >>61935858
  2979. Are you FUCKING RETARDED
  2980. >>
  2981.  Anonymous (ID: hCkTvv8i)  01/24/16(Sun)17:01:40 No.61937443▶
  2982. >>61932869
  2983. except the fact that the last several decades has proven the failure of your exact proposal. Germany couldn't or wasn't willing to kick out the guest workers. Britain couldn't kick out the commonwealth people who migrated before they weren't allowed citizenship. the US cannot conceivably kick out all of its illegals because it would be a logicistical and humanitarian nightmare
  2984. >>
  2985.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)17:02:05 No.61937476▶>>61938494
  2986. >>61936161
  2987. And if you look at those recessions (most of which ended fairly quickly), the common factor was excessive credit. This still hasn't changed for 200 years, despite all your beloved regulations, and we keep having recessions. Coincidence?
  2989. >free banking
  2990. Nope. Despite the inevitable >muh no true scotsman reply, the "free banking" era in the mid-19th century was not "free" in any useful sense, since each state imposed their own reserve requirements and interest rates. Fractional reserve banking being legal meant that banks could fail and people could lose their savings. This does not contribute to stability.
  2991. >>
  2992.  Anonymous (ID: Ft1Ql8A2)  01/24/16(Sun)17:02:35 No.61937512▶
  2993. >>61937077
  2994. The plebs don't deserve money, now work the money presses so they can go right into the banks
  2995. >>
  2996.  Anonymous (ID: j2gTEQZw)  01/24/16(Sun)17:05:21 No.61937720▶
  2997. File: image.jpg (36 KB, 420x400)
  2998. 36 KB
  2999. If you want to make payments on a million dollar trailer home, then Keynesian economics is the system for you!
  3000. Bernie fans are thumbs downing this video here.
  3001. [Embed]
  3002. >>
  3003.  Anonymous (ID: X+R5yfg6)  01/24/16(Sun)17:06:57 No.61937827▶>>61938106
  3004. Because keynesians actually think Obama did a great job with the economy and supported the housing market inflation
  3005. >>
  3006.  Anonymous (ID: fNnRzGqk)  01/24/16(Sun)17:07:35 No.61937877▶
  3007. >>61923840 (OP)
  3008. Because much like communism and socialism, keynesian economics sounds great in theory, but fails miserably in practice.
  3010. All three of the above systems do not take the human element into account, therefore they will always fail, usually disastrously.
  3011. >>
  3012.  Anonymous (ID: txHzebOj)  01/24/16(Sun)17:09:14 No.61938030▶>>61938109 >>61938494 >>61939238
  3013. Weren't Keynesians caught off guard by 2008, while Austrians pretty much predicted it?
  3014. >>
  3015.  Anonymous (ID: lyGzjo4+)  01/24/16(Sun)17:10:05 No.61938082▶
  3016. File: 1451699915387.jpg (2.29 MB, 1300x4080)
  3017. 2.29 MB
  3018. >>
  3019.  Anonymous (ID: d+pFC9NA)  01/24/16(Sun)17:10:15 No.61938092▶
  3020. >>61923840 (OP)
  3021. because you're a fag and you touch yourself at night
  3022. >>
  3023.  Anonymous (ID: X+R5yfg6)  01/24/16(Sun)17:10:24 No.61938106▶
  3024. >>61937827
  3025. Also I should note that I think Keynes himself was a good man and was against the Treaty of Versailles and other destructive agreements, even though I disagree with his economic stances.
  3026. It's a shame he has to be placed in the same field as the likes of Paul Krugman and other dipshits.
  3027. >>
  3028.  Anonymous (ID: pmTeDcMK)  01/24/16(Sun)17:10:26 No.61938109▶
  3029. >>61938030
  3030. yes
  3031. >>
  3032.  Anonymous (ID: YL479Top)  01/24/16(Sun)17:13:51 No.61938371▶>>61939931
  3033. >>61926494
  3035. It's what's happening now
  3037. Our entire economy is based upon consumption.
  3039. People are spending less which leads to cutbacks which leads to spending less
  3041. It's a vicious cycle that's currently eating up a lot of businesses at the moment
  3042. >>
  3043.  Anonymous (ID: X+R5yfg6)  01/24/16(Sun)17:15:18 No.61938484▶
  3044. File: where keynes went wrong.jpg (244 KB, 1709x2560)
  3045. 244 KB
  3046. Have any of you read this book?
  3047. It's actually quite a good read and it presents the arguments of both sides in full.
  3048. >>
  3049.  Anonymous (ID: ulSOEmZp)  01/24/16(Sun)17:15:26 No.61938494▶>>61939238 >>61939426
  3050. >>61937476
  3052. So there is excessive credit booms in less regulated environment too, which kind of ruins the whole Nirvana thing you've been playing with. Also they weren't that short depressions compared to the most of 20th century ones and in 20th century the amount of time spent in recessions was much less than of 19th century.
  3054. >Nope. Despite the inevitable >muh no true scotsman reply
  3056. It was more free and performed worse.
  3058. >>61938030
  3060. No, some economists were caught off guard and some weren't. There were few Austrians guessed it right(although they've been pretty much predicting total crash every day since 20ies) as well as some new Keynesians. For example Human Minsky not only predicted it, but he also has by far the most compelling theory of what caused it and how it played out.
  3061. >>
  3062.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)17:25:24 No.61939238▶
  3063. >>61938494
  3064. >>61938030
  3066. Post-Keynesians in general called it (steve keen, nouriel roubini, minsky, etc.). Mainstream Keynesians and monetarists didn't see it. Austrians saw it because austrians are literally always saying the economy will crash. Look at Peter Schiff. He didn't revise his thesis about the US Dollar crashing until like 6 years after he was wrong.
  3067. >>
  3068.  Anonymous (ID: Ybc81VF2)  01/24/16(Sun)17:26:25 No.61939314▶>>61939554 >>61939668 >>61941526
  3069. File: Why_Capitalism_Is_Flawed.jpg (562 KB, 1348x562)
  3070. 562 KB
  3071. How accurate is this?
  3073. free market capitalism is possibly one of the worst ideas ever. The "free market" is based on the simple observation that a hypothetical market with infinite competition and perfectly rational, perfectly omniscient consumers, the cost to produce a good goes to its absolute minumum (because if you overcharge for it, your infinitely many competitors with undercut you and your perfectly rational customers will leave you)
  3075. But he actual world has
  3076. 1. Consumers that aren't perfectly rational, because no human being ever is. Advertising is a whole industry with the sole purpose of appealing to people's irrationality.
  3078. 2. Consumers are not perfectly omniscient, because no one could know everything. There isn't enough time in one's life to perfectly research every decision, and even if there was, one doesn't have access to all product or service information even with government labeling.
  3080. 3. Markets that cannot have infinite competition because  economy/diseconomy of scale giving advantages to firms of a particular size
  3082. 4. Markets that cannot have infinite competition because  startup costs are large and/or startup/ramp-up times limit the rate at which markets can adapt
  3084. 5. Markets that cannot have infinite competition because  they are dealing with a limited resource, like airspace. Planes do in fact crash into each other if you don't control the airways somehow
  3086. The real world does not meet the criteria for the theoretical free market to materialize, so the on-paper advantages of the free market never materialize. Even worse the "advantages" of a free market aren't always advantages. A free labor market will mean the cost of untrained labor will approach the minimum cost to produce untrained labor i.e. the smallest amount an employer can pay to keep an employee from being less productive for the next shift.
  3088. The efficient market hypothesis is based on hugely flawed premises from classical economics.  
  3089. >>
  3090.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)17:27:46 No.61939426▶>>61939612
  3091. >>61938494
  3092. >It was more free
  3093. Not in any appreciable way, and most importantly, not in the way that matters.
  3094. >>
  3095.  Anonymous (ID: ulSOEmZp)  01/24/16(Sun)17:29:20 No.61939554▶
  3096. >>61939314
  3098. Pretty accurate, but it's quite narrow view. In reality the problems don't end there. Here's a good compilation site of the fauls inherent in free-market-faith:
  3101. >>
  3102.  Anonymous (ID: ulSOEmZp)  01/24/16(Sun)17:30:12 No.61939612▶>>61941526
  3103. >>61939426
  3105. Alright, fair enough opinion. Now tell me then, when was the economy more free and how did it work better back then?
  3106. >>
  3107.  Anonymous (ID: X+R5yfg6)  01/24/16(Sun)17:30:49 No.61939668▶>>61940400
  3108. >>61939314
  3109. I don't think any capitalist would argue that capitalism isn't flawed, also it should be noted that the poster is criticizing consumers for not being totally rational while giving lots of power to government regulators who I'd argue are inherently more flawed.
  3111. Still I'm not in favor of a fully free market or anything like that, just more free market reforms while keeping in certain regulations like Glass-Steagal.
  3112. >>
  3113.  Anonymous (ID: pmTeDcMK)  01/24/16(Sun)17:34:19 No.61939931▶
  3114. >>61938371
  3115. Businesses don't automatically have a right to exist
  3117. I just saw a bait and tackle shop in my downtown area. I don't live near the ocean or lakes.
  3119. Literally wtf
  3121. This business going out of business and driving down commercial real estate would be good for everybody
  3122. >>
  3123.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)17:38:43 No.61940286▶
  3124. >>61928563
  3125. >You say it's "bad for the economy." I strongly disagree. I'd rather say it's "bad for unproductive individuals." A recession can be a great time for trimming the fat off of the economy. Shitty businesses can go bust, lazy workers can get fired, and people that don't save can starve to death. This is the free market at work. We need to purge the bad blood from time to time. You'd rather protect shitty people at the taxpayer's expense.
  3127. lmao, this is what I don't get about "free market economics"
  3129. whenever someone questions them on this, they come up with answers like these
  3131. how can anyone take them seriously? "just let people die" LOL
  3132. >>
  3133.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)17:40:14 No.61940400▶>>61940774
  3134. >>61939668
  3135. The problem is when people trust businesses OR government too much. The goal is to cast a skeptical eye on what each business and each government branch is doing. If you avoid making any theories, like I do, then the truth emerges and it becomes clear what could be done.
  3137. I am an institutional economist in the sense that I understand what's going on, more so than any elaborate one solution. (Unlike academics)
  3139. I could also resurrect this discipline, if I could somehow get past the academic blowhards.
  3140. >>
  3141.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)17:40:38 No.61940428▶
  3142. >>61927129
  3143. Because the average Joe saving 100 dollars a month because he's about to lose his job and he needs something to survive will turn into capital investment
  3145. for fuck's sakes
  3146. >>
  3147.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)17:43:12 No.61940640▶
  3148. >>61924919
  3149. >n theory it could work
  3150. it doesn't even work in theory.
  3151. >>
  3152.  Anonymous (ID: X+R5yfg6)  01/24/16(Sun)17:44:51 No.61940774▶>>61941319 >>61942800
  3153. >>61940400
  3154. True, while I trust business over government much more I do think we need to hold skepticism over both institutions (which like you said has been lost).
  3155. I actually kind of like a mix of austrian, chicago and american theories.
  3156. >>
  3157.  Anonymous (ID: gat1qbdJ)  01/24/16(Sun)17:45:10 No.61940800▶>>61941841
  3158. >>61926149
  3159. >Lmao it's the other way around. People SHOULD save when "things start going bad".
  3160. Confirmed retarded. If people save when things go bad, it means they are spending less of their income, which means someone else's income is reduced, which means they are spending less and so on.
  3161. This is what happens in EVERY RECESSION.
  3162. The only way to get out of the downward spiral is for someone to spend significantly more than their income and there is only one entity that can do it - the government.
  3164. Saving is not bad, it just means private entities want to keep some spending power for later, but it also means that the government should make up the lost demand to maximise output. Well, unless voters decide they want a recession I guess.
  3166. It's funny that the same people who advocate for high private saving also want the government to "balance its budget". By definition these are contradictory goals.
  3167. >>
  3168.  Anonymous (ID: Ms4RlpJB)  01/24/16(Sun)17:45:11 No.61940802▶
  3169. >>61923840 (OP)
  3170. keynsesian economics is seen as a perfect model. Whenever something unexpected happens and the economy turns to shit, economists blame the market for not reacting the way keynesian economics said it would
  3171. >>
  3172.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)17:46:02 No.61940871▶>>61941426 >>61943119
  3173. EU used Austrian economics
  3174. EU still in recession
  3176. USA used Keynesian economics
  3177. USA out of recession
  3178. >>
  3179.  Anonymous (ID: xFgbYXhV)  01/24/16(Sun)17:47:46 No.61941016▶>>61941193
  3180. Democratically elected governments refuse to follow it and lower taxes during good periods and raise them in the bad
  3181. >>
  3182.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)17:49:45 No.61941193▶
  3183. >>61941016
  3184. it's not raising and lowering
  3186. it's saving money in good periods (politicians don't do this, they spend even more), and spending money in bad periods (politicians don't do this, they use austerity instead)
  3187. >>
  3188.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)17:51:19 No.61941319▶>>61941461 >>61942800
  3189. >>61940774
  3190. The 'X' factor is the introduction of private actors that a arent specifically business or government. Trade Unions, Nonprofits, civic associations...and other groups lost in time (like Churches as a substitute for social services)
  3192. To be frank, I am so far ahead in some critical areas, nobody even knows what I'm suggesting
  3194. >"Trade Companies for asteroid mining? Wtf are you talking about?"
  3196. The number one problem, for economic recovery, is that Alan Blooms prediction came to pass. The "elite" institutions cannot produce much of an "elite"
  3198. So like Yang from legend of galactic heroes, I just have to watch the wreckage from afar. I don't enjoy it
  3199. >>
  3200.  Anonymous (ID: gat1qbdJ)  01/24/16(Sun)17:52:01 No.61941380▶>>61941526
  3201. >>61928470
  3202. Based Estonia. MMT master race reporting in.
  3204. >>61928970
  3205. >Every penny a government spends is comes from taxes.
  3206. No, every penny a government taxes originally comes from its spending.
  3207. >If they printed it you're losing purchasing power. There’s no free lunch here.
  3208. Sorry that you don't understand how inflation works buddy.
  3209. >>
  3210.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)17:52:34 No.61941426▶
  3211. >>61940871
  3213. no
  3214. >>
  3215.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)17:52:56 No.61941461▶>>61941738 >>61942800
  3216. >>61941319
  3217. Make YouTube videos
  3219. if Stephen Molyneaux has 1 million subscribers, you can do something
  3220. >>
  3221.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)17:53:51 No.61941526▶>>61942800 >>61943119
  3222. >>61939314
  3223. The "free market" is simply people peacefully and voluntarily exchanging goods and services absent of external coersion (eg. governments). The criteria listed are not required characteristics of a free market, they are part of an oversimplified model of a free-market economy. It's a complete strawman.
  3225. It's like saying medical science is a bullshit concept because not all doctors are perfectly omniscient, perfectly rational, infinite in number, and can deliver the same level of service.
  3227. >>61939612
  3228. Difficult to say. Full-reserve banking didn't last very long after banking became a thing, as banks discovered that you stand to make a lot more money when you hold less than 100% reserves, provided your customers never go on a bank run. And secondly, governments were pretty much immediately and exclusively in control of minting coin (and continually devaluing it), as well as determining its value relative to any paper currency. So every economy in the past several hundred years was inflationary and featured expansionary credit policies.
  3230. However, back when proto-banks were just goldsmiths who would simply hold clients' money in their vault and issue receipts that could be traded (thereby avoiding artificial expansion of credit), whether the economy worked better depends on your definition of "better". It was nowhere near as advanced, quality of life was worse, and there was less disposable income all around since it was in the pre-industrial revolution era. That's why it's difficult to make an apples-to-apples comparison, since economies have been developing and evolving steadily, so a modern economy (ignoring regulation) doesn't look the same as a 15th century one.
  3232. >>61941380
  3233. >Sorry that you don't understand how inflation works buddy.
  3234. I guess the Weimar Republic didn't get the memo...
  3235. >>
  3236.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)17:54:10 No.61941554▶>>61941683 >>61942800
  3237. >>61926149
  3238. a long read but a good one attacking the "paradox of thrift" concept.
  3241. keynesians can't into time, savings, or capital. the model is an accounting model or "flow" model, which oversimplifies.
  3242. >>
  3243.  Anonymous (ID: LG/ymODr)  01/24/16(Sun)17:55:22 No.61941648▶
  3244. >>61928629
  3245. XDD
  3246. Upvoted!
  3247. >>
  3248.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)17:55:48 No.61941683▶>>61942191 >>61942832
  3249. >>61941554
  3250. How will people save money if they are unemployed?
  3251. How will people survive if they are unemployed?
  3252. How does the average Joe saving money turn into capital investment?
  3253. >>
  3254.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)17:56:32 No.61941738▶>>61941775 >>61941782 >>61942805
  3255. >>61941461
  3256. If enough people tell me to, I will.
  3258. My fear is that people wouldn't be willing to venture outside the norms. I offer practical and effective ideas, but they may be too different and therefore I don't want to be misunderstood.
  3259. >>
  3260.  Anonymous (ID: de0YC71z)  01/24/16(Sun)17:57:03 No.61941775▶
  3261. >>61941738
  3262. Do it!
  3263. >>
  3264.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)17:57:09 No.61941782▶>>61941960
  3265. >>61941738
  3266. >If enough people tell me to, I will.
  3267. sheep detected
  3268. >>
  3269.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)17:58:00 No.61941841▶>>61943657
  3270. >>61926363
  3271. >>61927093
  3272. >>61940800
  3273. >people that think we need to keep consuming when savings rates are 0 and no one has savings
  3274. confirmed for being either high time preference niggers, or ben bernanke.
  3276. you guys should read up on the "long depression"
  3278. >The dramatic shift in prices mauled nominal wages - in the United States, nominal wages declined by one-quarter during the 1870s,[11] and as much as one-half in some places, such as Pennsylvania.[30] Although real wages had enjoyed robust growth in the aftermath of the American Civil War, increasing by nearly a quarter between 1865 and 1873, they stagnated until the 1880s, posting no real growth, before resuming their robust rate of expansion in the later 1880s.[31] The collapse of cotton prices devastated the already war-ravaged economy of the southern United States.[14] Although farm prices fell dramatically, American agriculture continued to expand production.[26]
  3279. >>
  3280.  Anonymous (ID: QYFfHEvD)  01/24/16(Sun)17:59:07 No.61941942▶
  3281. >>61924798
  3282. You mean it made first world countries so good that everyone wants to come?
  3284. Yes, I know that.
  3285. >>
  3286.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)17:59:22 No.61941960▶>>61942104
  3287. >>61941782
  3288. I'm a leader.
  3290. This means I accept responsibility only from those who are willing to offer it.
  3292. Since people are warming up, I'll definitely consider it.
  3293. >>
  3294.  Anonymous (ID: e1YcOg7d)  01/24/16(Sun)18:00:00 No.61942024▶
  3296. >>
  3297.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)18:00:54 No.61942104▶>>61942336
  3298. >>61941960
  3300. *tips fedora*
  3301. >>
  3302.  Anonymous (ID: gat1qbdJ)  01/24/16(Sun)18:00:55 No.61942106▶
  3303. >>61932820
  3304. "The government's democratic mandate" is a workable definition of public purpose. Most voters would agree that zero unemployment & underemployment (with price stability) is good.
  3305. >>
  3306.  Anonymous (ID: u4a/3MYa)  01/24/16(Sun)18:01:57 No.61942182▶
  3307. >>61930958
  3309. You forgot Part 2
  3310. [Embed]
  3311. >>
  3312.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)18:02:04 No.61942191▶>>61942565 >>61943087 >>61943657
  3313. >>61941683
  3314. >How will people save money if they are unemployed?
  3315. you might not be able to.
  3316. but people who are employed can save money.
  3317. >How will people survive if they are unemployed?
  3318. from their savings, off the land, or from charity/family/friends.
  3319. >How does the average Joe saving money turn into capital investment?
  3320. through the loanable funds market. the same thing that keynes denied existed in the general theory and the same thing that people bitch about when they discover that banks lend out their money.
  3322. before the proliferation of central banking, and in between periods of central banking most economies (western or advanced) had steady price deflation and steady growth
  3323. the necessity of constant price inflation for a healthy economy is bullshit.
  3324. >>
  3325.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)18:03:39 No.61942331▶>>61942516
  3326. >>61925602
  3327. >a) people aren't always rational
  3328. what's rational?
  3329. >>
  3330.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)18:03:41 No.61942336▶
  3331. >>61942104
  3332. shit test me all you want, but I commit only when I know it's the right thing to do.
  3333. >>
  3334.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)18:05:50 No.61942516▶>>61943005
  3335. >>61942331
  3336. Rational is when I succeed at getting my self interest. People fail to do this, and that's why they aren't perfectly rational.
  3337. >>
  3338.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)18:06:22 No.61942565▶>>61942770 >>61942832 >>61942958
  3339. >>61942191
  3340. >from their savings
  3341. So they aren't saving money. Not only they are not producing nor learning skills, they are wasting their savings in a futile attempt to try to survive.
  3343. >off the land
  3344. Year 2016
  3346. >charity/family/friends
  3347. Recipe for homelessness
  3349. This is the one question no free marketer can answer. Some will be honest, and admit people will die in the streets and call it a positive thing. Some will be in denial, and tell you charity/family will solve it.
  3350. >>
  3351.  Anonymous (ID: oHTXwRlM)  01/24/16(Sun)18:06:24 No.61942568▶
  3352. >>61923840 (OP)
  3353. No one follows through with the Keynesian theory of the government involvement being a cycle, they just continuously add more and more on top of the pile for each economic downturn.
  3354. >>
  3355.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)18:08:48 No.61942770▶>>61943065
  3356. >>61942565
  3357. i just gave you answers you faggot. just because they aren't "take money from other people forcibly through the state" doesn't mean i didn't produce an answer.
  3358. there will always be pain and suffering and bad fortune in this world.
  3359. >>
  3360.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)18:09:12 No.61942800▶>>61943170 >>61943475
  3361. >>61941526
  3363. Hmm that seems very socialistic and authoritarian of you if you were suggesting that banks should not be able to create money.
  3365. >>61940774
  3367. American actually have very good monetary theories before chicago neoclassicism became the norm. Irving Fisher and Frederick Soddy were two very good ones.
  3369. >>61941319
  3370. >>61941461
  3371. 2nded. Make some videos
  3373. >>61941554
  3374. Murphy can't think his way out of a paper bag. He embarassed himself at the MMT debate. All he could come up with was "muh aggregation" and "real life isn't accounting identities". You can see here: [Embed]
  3375. >>
  3376.  Anonymous (ID: hIGy8o29)  01/24/16(Sun)18:09:14 No.61942805▶
  3377. >>61941738
  3378. Your attentionwhoring made me break lurk mode to give you a (You). Yes, you should do it so that economy illiterate imbeciles like me can learn a little bit more about this discipline.
  3379. >>
  3380.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)18:09:26 No.61942832▶>>61943065
  3381. >>61941683
  3382. >>61942565
  3384. Spotted the low testosterone, low IQ, useless commie parasite. Don't spread your genes please.
  3385. >>
  3386.  Anonymous (ID: de0YC71z)  01/24/16(Sun)18:11:01 No.61942958▶
  3387. >>61942565
  3388. If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.
  3389. >>
  3390.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)18:11:28 No.61943005▶>>61943403
  3391. >>61942516
  3392. what if you performed actions that were informed by perfect knowledge (as possible) and still failed to achieve? irrational? no one can predict the future with perfect accuracy. does this make inventors and innovations in the economy irrational?
  3394. either way, i don't see what that has to do with keyenes or the classics that he argued against
  3395. >>
  3396.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)18:12:14 No.61943065▶>>61943237 >>61943520
  3397. >>61942770
  3398. >>61942832
  3399. And when the free marketer is called out, he drops off his intellectual facade and goes on a rant of insults and call you a communist. So typical.
  3400. >>
  3401.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)18:12:26 No.61943087▶>>61943316
  3402. >>61942191
  3404. >from their savings, off the land, or from charity/family/friends.
  3406. This is classic. Free market economy is shit and what should you do? Find some way to live outside of the economy. haha
  3407. >>
  3408.  Anonymous (ID: gat1qbdJ)  01/24/16(Sun)18:12:51 No.61943119▶>>61943475
  3409. >>61940871
  3410. If I may add another example:
  3412. Australia used very aggressive Keynesian economics
  3413. Australia didn't have a recession
  3415. Australia is now on track for recession because a strongly pro-austerity government was elected in 2013 and started to cut everything. Top kek.
  3417. >>61941526
  3418. >I guess the Weimar Republic didn't get the memo...
  3419. Yeah because every country in the world currently has a convertible currency and severe supply-side shortages as a result of a world war & economic sanctions. Those factors that are totally present right now are going to cause hyperinflation if our governments continue to run deficits.
  3421. I'm impressed that you used the dumbass Weimar example. Most people resort to the other dumbass example of Zimbabwe, which was also caused by supply-side factors.
  3422. >>
  3423.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)18:13:37 No.61943170▶>>61943594
  3424. >>61942800
  3425. >and "real life isn't accounting identities"
  3426. I've watched that one, and he's right.
  3427. there's more to economics than assets and liabilities, and MMT treats everything this way. there is no physical capital, no structure to the economy, no heterogenous goods (capital or otherwise)
  3428. it's literally the accountant's theory of economics if he didn't study economics.
  3429. >>
  3430.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)18:14:24 No.61943237▶>>61943538
  3431. >>61943065
  3432. what is your solution to help someone losing their job, being hopeless, having children, and while we're at it, lost all his limbs?
  3433. >>
  3434.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)18:15:23 No.61943316▶
  3435. >>61943087
  3436. >This is classic. Free market economy is shit and what should you do? Find some way to live outside of the economy. haha
  3437. more than half the world lives outside of cities, so living off the land is the economic reality for them
  3438. living off the land doesn't preclude trading with others.
  3439. >>
  3440.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)18:16:29 No.61943403▶>>61943746
  3441. >>61943005
  3442. Perfect knowledge is an impossible state. If you "knew everything" then you would always be right and never wrong.
  3444. People and governments do dumb shit all the time. Therefore rationality is an insane assumption. Empiricism is the better plan, because it can find out who is rational and who is irrational
  3446. >pro tip: leave rational people/businesses alone, but keep an eye on the irrational
  3447. >>
  3448.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)18:17:25 No.61943475▶>>61944012 >>61944433
  3449. >>61942800
  3450. >seems very socialistic and authoritarian of you if you were suggesting that banks should not be able to create money.
  3451. No more socialistic or authoritarian than suggesting that when you give someone your car for safekeeping, they shouldn't use it as collateral to bet on street racing while telling you that it's safe and sound in their garage. A sum of money cannot simultaneously be a demand deposit AND be loaned out to a third party. That is fraud. And what's worse, that fraud has significant negative effects on the economy.
  3453. >>61943119
  3454. >dumbass Weimar example
  3455. The example was used to illustrate that printing money causes inflation. Are you seriously arguing this point?
  3456. >>
  3457.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)18:17:48 No.61943520▶>>61943611
  3458. >>61943065
  3460. People who don't add to society should either migrate wherever their skillset is wanted, settle for a lower standard of living on their current society, or aim for a slightly higher standard of living in that socio-economic framework forgoing the costs of raising children, thus lowering the number of genetically useless individuals from the pool of human capital.
  3461. >>
  3462.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)18:18:06 No.61943538▶>>61943621
  3463. >>61943237
  3464. Safety net.
  3465. >>
  3466.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)18:18:49 No.61943594▶
  3467. >>61943170
  3469. Ironic you should say this since Austrians essentially treat investment patterns as a "black box" and simply assume that all increased savings will automatically translate into productive investments that help to expand the output of the economy. Austrians talk a big game about acknowledging capital heterogeneity but then they don't have anything important to say following from this other than, "muh complexity" and "muh aggregation". All of their theories and writings are based around obstructing others from using knowledge to deduce certain principles if those principles imply the desirability of any sort of interference in the workings of the invisible hand.
  3470. >>
  3471.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)18:19:00 No.61943611▶>>61944306
  3472. >>61943520
  3473. No wonder nobody takes you seriously.
  3474. >>
  3475.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)18:19:07 No.61943621▶>>61943723
  3476. >>61943538
  3477. provided by whom?
  3478. >>
  3479.  Anonymous (ID: gat1qbdJ)  01/24/16(Sun)18:19:35 No.61943657▶>>61943969
  3480. >>61941841
  3481. >people that think we need to keep consuming when savings rates are 0 and no one has savings
  3482. The implication is that I want households and firms to save zero or negative of their income. Nice strawman.
  3483. What I'm advocating is higher incomes and savings ratio of whatever households and firms choose. That is, let the government stop worrying about its deficit so that private saving can increase without AD dropping.
  3485. >>61942191
  3486. >He thinks banks lend out deposits
  3487. laughing_girls.png
  3488. >>
  3489.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)18:20:25 No.61943723▶>>61943897
  3490. >>61943621
  3491. Taxes.
  3493. Or are you lunatic enough to also claim that a stateless society is entirely feasible?
  3494. >>
  3495.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)18:20:48 No.61943746▶>>61944419
  3496. >>61943403
  3498. I'm pretty sure that if government didn't distort economics at the extent they do. The price system is a pretty dank empirical tool for resource allocation.
  3499. >>
  3500.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)18:22:55 No.61943897▶>>61944073
  3501. >>61943723
  3502. is it possible that the gov't can't take care of everyone, or are you lunatic enough to assume they will all be taken care of?
  3503. >>
  3504.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)18:23:56 No.61943969▶>>61945145
  3505. >>61943657
  3506. >>He thinks banks lend out deposits
  3507. >laughing_girls.png
  3508. what are you doing in this thread if you never even heard of fractional reserve banking?
  3509. >>
  3510.  Anonymous (ID: wskby/S0)  01/24/16(Sun)18:24:10 No.61943989▶
  3511. Keynesianism is not a form of real-world economics. It is a statist cult.
  3512. >>
  3513.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)18:24:27 No.61944012▶>>61945735
  3514. >>61943475
  3516. >That is fraud.
  3517. You're just a bureaucratic busybody communist pencil-pusher. Stop putting your nose in productive businessmen's business and stop preventing wealth from being created. Fractional reserve banking incentivizes wealth creation. Rules and regulations don't work, they just make everything worse.
  3519. >The example was used to illustrate that printing money causes inflation. Are you seriously arguing this point?
  3520. Once again, retarded quantity theory of money. Tell me, what happens when the supply of goods increases in the exact same degree as the supply of money? Is there inflation? Or no? Tell me honestly, what's your answer?
  3521. >>
  3522.  Anonymous (ID: wskby/S0)  01/24/16(Sun)18:24:50 No.61944046▶
  3523. The study of economics is Austrian.
  3524. >>
  3525.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)18:25:12 No.61944073▶>>61944191
  3526. >>61943897
  3527. Only the needy, and the necessary to survive so that they don't die / don't end up homeless and their chances of ever getting a job again become 0
  3528. >>
  3529.  Anonymous (ID: 2+sJcwmR)  01/24/16(Sun)18:26:51 No.61944191▶>>61944297
  3530. >>61944073
  3531. >Only the needy, and the necessary to survive so that they don't die / don't end up homeless and their chances of ever getting a job again become 0
  3532. you're right. the ussr made it 0.
  3533. >>
  3534.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)18:28:15 No.61944297▶
  3535. >>61944191
  3536. >there are two kinds of people: an-caps such as myself, and people who want a Soviet Union style government :)
  3537. >>
  3538.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)18:28:21 No.61944306▶>>61944506 >>61944775
  3539. >>61943611
  3541. I'm very serious when I say what I said. More intelligent(IQ) and ambitious(testosterone) men have a greater chance to survive. Women comprehend that very well, granting reproductive rights to these men. On the other hand you have stupid losers who need for an external force to redistribute resourcers so idiots like you feel like they have a greater shot at fulfilling their drives.
  3542. >>
  3543.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)18:29:59 No.61944419▶>>61944761
  3544. >>61943746
  3545. I am also pretty sure that if you lie about your products you can make more money... Which is why we have the FTC
  3546. >>
  3547.  Anonymous (ID: gat1qbdJ)  01/24/16(Sun)18:30:09 No.61944433▶>>61945735 >>61950271
  3548. >>61943475
  3549. >The example was used to illustrate that printing money causes inflation. Are you seriously arguing this point?
  3550. The assertion was "printing money always causes inflation"
  3551. Now, first you have to define what you mean by "printing money". Does it mean:
  3552. A. Printing more banknotes? (I will assume you don't mean literally this)
  3553. B. Creating more dollars (CB reserves) by spending?
  3554. C. Creating financial assets equivalent to dollars (bonds) by spending?
  3556. If you're saying that B is always inflationary but C is not inflationary, then you obviously don't know how the banking system works. Whether the government lets the deficit (private net saving) take the form of CB reserves or bonds doesn't affect the banks' ability to issue more credit nor does it add to their stock of wealth. It just swaps zero-interest-bearing dollars (reserves) for what is effectively low-interest-bearing dollars (bonds).
  3558. If you're saying that B and C are always inflationary then you are working from the assumption that the economy is always at full employment and you won't make any progress in the real world until you break free of that assumption.
  3559. >>
  3560.  Anonymous (ID: 8hN2E1MF)  01/24/16(Sun)18:31:05 No.61944506▶>>61944840 >>61945322
  3561. >>61944306
  3562. You are insane. You lack this thing called empathy. I am not against Eugenics, but your way of doing it is so useless. Try a thought-experiment of how a society you want would look like. If you think people will just die without fighting, if you think the weak won't band together behind some communist wacko and create a government again, if you think that kind of anarchy doesn't lead to civil war, you are deluded.
  3563. >>
  3564.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)18:34:14 No.61944761▶>>61944956
  3565. >>61944419
  3567. Not for long, scammers don't last long on the free market. Fraud should be prosecuted and the diferential value from the the advertised product and the actual product should be refunded.
  3568. >>
  3569.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)18:34:25 No.61944775▶>>61945051
  3570. >>61944306
  3572. nations run by ideas like yours are weak. they deny opportunities to their people and hope that they become losers and the people therefore despise their leaders. nations that seek to encourage and provide opportunities to their citizens and hope that they become winners are strong because the people love their leaders. easier to conquer a nation of slaves than a nation of citizens. your ideas are therefore stupid.
  3573. >>
  3574.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)18:35:13 No.61944840▶
  3575. >>61944506
  3576. Actually this is exactly what happens.
  3578. Libertarian businessmen drive people to desperation so they elect a strongman (or dictator) who will protect them from the libertarian businessmen.
  3580. In a fucked up way, that's what bringing up Trump and Sanders to power. Although I too am against business overreach so maybe I'm guilty as well
  3581. >>
  3582.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)18:36:58 No.61944956▶
  3583. >>61944761
  3584. Empirically not only do they last a long time but they actually destroy the industry they are in.
  3586. Look up the paper "lemon market " for a Nobel Prize winning in empirical examination
  3587. >>
  3588.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)18:38:15 No.61945051▶>>61945453
  3589. >>61944775
  3591. How does an absolute free market deny opportunities from anyone? How do you deduce that I hope that everyone else but me becomes a loser? I would argue in favor of a stateless society, no leaders bruh. I'm pretty sure that the incentive to thrive is a pretty good eoncouragement and the free market provides of enough opportunities for everyone to succeed.
  3592. >>
  3593.  Anonymous (ID: gat1qbdJ)  01/24/16(Sun)18:39:26 No.61945145▶>>61945735
  3594. >>61943969
  3595. Oh I see. You think fractional reserve banking is actually how modern banks work. Well it's not.
  3597. Banks issue credit from nothing. The reserve requirement only applies to commercial banks' reserves at the central bank, and it just means they sometimes need to borrow from another bank or from the central bank.
  3599. Many countries don't have a reserve requirement and it makes little difference.
  3600. >>
  3601.  Anonymous (ID: Ua/uocx9)  01/24/16(Sun)18:40:34 No.61945225▶>>61945317
  3602. >>61930764
  3604. Build infrastructure, rearm, invade neighbouring countries and seize their resources
  3605. >>
  3606.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)18:41:48 No.61945317▶
  3607. >>61945225
  3608. >reads argument
  3609. >observes flag
  3611. Kek
  3612. >>
  3613.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)18:41:50 No.61945322▶
  3614. >>61944506
  3616. Well, if the weak, isteand of migrating somewhere else where their skillset is appreciated tried to coerce by force the rest of the population the latter group would be legitimized to use force in self defense to any extent. So if you think that killing/dying is better than migrating then you deserve death.
  3617. >>
  3618.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)18:43:34 No.61945453▶>>61945926
  3619. >>61945051
  3621. >How do you deduce that I hope that everyone else but me becomes a loser?
  3623. >On the other hand you have stupid losers who need for an external force to redistribute resourcers so idiots like you feel like they have a greater shot at fulfilling their drives.
  3625. Need I go on?
  3627. >the free market provides of enough opportunities for everyone to succeed.
  3629. Yeah see that's just the question we're discussing yet you don't want to listen to those who disagree (read: most economists).
  3630. >>
  3631.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)18:47:45 No.61945735▶>>61946505 >>61947029
  3632. >>61944012
  3633. >Rules and regulations don't work, they just make everything worse
  3634. Can you stawman any harder? Rules against murder, theft, and fraud work very well, and are a completely separate category of legislation than the economic regulations we are discussing ITT.
  3636. >supply of goods increases in the exact same degree as the supply of money
  3637. There is inflation, but that inflation cannot be sustained indefinitely. You cannot maintain an annual 2% increase in the supply of hamburgers or pencils, and just as importantly, it is difficult for governments to exploit this for political goals in a market economy. And that increase in pencil supply (and corresponding price) only affects those who buy pencils; the ripple effect on the economy is negligible. An increase in money supply, however, ultimately affects everyone, because everyone holds money.
  3639. >>61944433
  3640. B and C are always inflationary. Higher employment means higher demand, which results in higher prices.
  3642. >>61945145
  3643. >Banks issue credit from nothing
  3644. This much is true, for the most part.
  3646. >and it makes little difference
  3647. Countries that have no reserve requirements still have capital requirements.
  3648. >>
  3649.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)18:50:28 No.61945926▶>>61946505
  3650. >>61945453
  3652. I don't see how I hope for everyone to become a loser there... I think that the better of everyone else is the higher living stantard I will have. Given that people who add value to the economic system would get retributed with purchase power since they produce either a product or a service demanded by their peers since it increases their living standard(that would be for consumer goods) or helps them reach the point where these consumer goods are produced through capital goods, the higher living stantard of the society(the more winners) the more goods I'd be able to consume for my own living stantard. So no, I'm not in favor of making everyone a loser, the exact opposite is the case.
  3653. >>
  3654.  Anonymous (ID: kOf35m/x)  01/24/16(Sun)18:54:40 No.61946210▶
  3655. File: smugkeynes.jpg (60 KB, 250x300)
  3656. 60 KB
  3657. >implying Keynesian economics isn't the only non-jewish school of modern economics
  3658. >implying Keynes isn't redpilled as fuck
  3660. >“Bolshevism is such a delirium, bred by besotted idealism and intellectual error out of the sufferings and peculiar temperaments of Slavs and Jews. But we can no more regard this culminating delirium as a lasting fact or influence than the rule of Robespierre or the Jacobins.”
  3662. >"[Jews] have in them deep-rooted instincts that are antagonistic and therefore repulsive to the European, and their presence among us is a living example of the insurmountable difficulties that exist in merging race characteristics, in making cats love dogs …
  3663. >>
  3664.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)18:58:38 No.61946505▶>>61947554 >>61948816
  3665. >>61945735
  3667. >Can you stawman any harder? Rules against murder, theft, and fraud work very well, and are a completely separate category of legislation than the economic regulations we are discussing ITT.
  3669. Why? What makes economic regulation distinct from regulations on the other aspects of human behavior?
  3671. >There is inflation, but that inflation cannot be sustained indefinitely.
  3673. OK stop. What is 4 / 4? 1 right? OK what is 6 / 6? 1 also right? and 8 / 8? 1 also right?
  3674. So pretend that there is 4 quantity of good and 4 quantity of money. If we increase the quantity of money in a depression to so that a greater production of goods is enabled, we then have 4+2= 6 money supply and then 4+2=6 supply of goods. Was there inflation? Yes or no?
  3676. >>61945926
  3678. >Given that people who add value to the economic system would get retributed with purchase power since they produce either a product or a service demanded by their peers since it increases their living standard(that would be for consumer goods) or helps them reach the point where these consumer goods are produced through capital goods, the higher living stantard of the society(the more winners) the more goods I'd be able to consume for my own living stantard.
  3680. The quantity of positions which accept and enable people to add value to the economic system is conditional upon what type of economy you have (a good one, a bad one, a high output one, a low output one, an agricultural one, an industrial one, a technological one, etc.), which is conditional upon what economic policy you have, as well as circumstance, access to resources, economic policy of your competitor nations, etc. But maybe you didn't think of this and just assumed everything is stable income and full employment?
  3681. >>
  3682.  Anonymous (ID: gat1qbdJ)  01/24/16(Sun)19:05:17 No.61947029▶>>61948816
  3683. >>61945735
  3684. >B and C are always inflationary. Higher employment means higher demand, which results in higher prices.
  3685. Higher demand doesn't always result in higher prices. Only if total demand exceeds productive capacity (see: output gap). If the economy is at full employment then the output gap is gone and any additional demand will cause inflation - but that's not the situation in our universe.
  3686. Also, any spending could push demand too high and cause inflation whether it's from the government or the private sector.
  3687. >>
  3688.  Anonymous (ID: gEdWLqxK)  01/24/16(Sun)19:07:13 No.61947202▶>>61947638 >>61950271
  3689. >>61923840 (OP)
  3691. >Keynesian economics
  3692. >permits deficit spending in times of stagnation
  3693. >politicians love it
  3694. >it's irresistible so they do it routinely
  3695. >more more more spending
  3696. >debt piles up with no end in sight
  3697. >interest payments become an anchor on the economy
  3698. >the cure for stagnation is now causing stagnation
  3699. >fail
  3700. >>
  3701.  Anonymous (ID: Y8OWGvfa)  01/24/16(Sun)19:07:59 No.61947274▶
  3702. I don't think anyone on /pol/ is 100% sane.
  3703. >>
  3704.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)19:11:27 No.61947554▶>>61947838
  3705. >>61946505
  3707. You seem to be the one asuming that economies are non dynamic: "a good one, a bad one, a high output one, a low output one, an agricultural one, an industrial one, a technological one, etc.". It is not the economic policy you have that determines this, but the degree of innovation and enterprenourship of that given society. It wouldn't matter neither the fiscal nor monetary policy on most african countries given that their innovative capability is low due to the intellectual burden that carries having an average IQ of 70. It's not the centrally planned policy of a given government what makes a society great, but the addition of individual efforts to get more value output with less value input. Price system n' shiet nomsayin bruh
  3708. >>
  3709.  Guile (ID: U4OHG9Rg)  01/24/16(Sun)19:12:47 No.61947638▶>>61948104 >>61950271
  3710. >>61947202
  3711. There is a lot of truth to this.
  3712. >>
  3713.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)19:14:56 No.61947838▶>>61948105
  3714. >>61947554
  3716. >You seem to be the one asuming that economies are non dynamic
  3718. They're dynamic the way that vines are dynamic. If planted into the ground with nothing grow onto, they'll just wriggle around in the dirt.
  3719. >>
  3720.  Anonymous (ID: zaUvSZHU)  01/24/16(Sun)19:16:30 No.61947979▶>>61948816 >>61950318
  3721. File: Inflation.png (12 KB, 500x333)
  3722. 12 KB
  3723. >>
  3724.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)19:17:58 No.61948104▶>>61950271
  3725. >>61947638
  3727. The problem in this isn't specifically Keynes' fault though. All he did was notice that somehow increasing demand during downturns would fix the problem. He advocated deficit spending at interest because that's how the institutional framework was set up at the time; money created with debt and so on.
  3729. If countries printed more money during downturns but did it interest-free that wouldn't suddenly be Non-Keynesian. Imo it would still essentially be Keynesian. It's not his fault that he didn't convince nation-states to produce debt-free currency. You have to pick your battles and he picked his: unemployment.
  3730. >>
  3731.  Anonymous (ID: 2bRrLEu/)  01/24/16(Sun)19:17:59 No.61948105▶>>61949409
  3732. >>61947838
  3734. Sorry I'm not into poetry man. None of us both are native english speakers so It'd be great if you kept it clear and simple instead of trying to make weird metaphors.
  3735. >>
  3736.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)19:27:14 No.61948816▶>>61949409 >>61950318
  3737. >>61946505
  3738. >what makes economic regulation distinct
  3739. Because the regulations I mentioned are justified on an ethical basis. Whether you are a consequentialist or deontologist, we can see that the vast majority of human societies have rules prohibiting murder, theft, fraud, assault, etc. Economic regulations do not seek to fulfill an ethical purpose, but rather to achieve some sort of economic effect, and are almost always in some degree of violation of the aforementioned ethical regulations.
  3741. >we then have 4+2= 6 money supply and then 4+2=6 supply of goods
  3742. What? This isn't how the economy works. Through that reasoning, we could create a bountiful utopia by increasing the money supply a million-fold.
  3744. >>61947029
  3745. >Also, any spending could push demand too high and cause inflation
  3746. Certainly. But as we've seen over the past century, it is not the private sector that has contributed to inflation. The private sector cannot spend indefinitely, because they do not have access to a limitless supply of money. Only the government does.
  3748. How, then, would you explain >>61947979, if increasing the money supply has no real-world effect on inflation?
  3749. >>
  3750.  Anonymous (ID: qLbqOxVR)  01/24/16(Sun)19:28:12 No.61948906▶
  3751. There is literally nothing wrong with Mayonnaise.
  3752. >>
  3753.  Anonymous (ID: Iu+fDlu7)  01/24/16(Sun)19:29:07 No.61948991▶
  3754. File: 1453224850648.png (748 KB, 1680x2975)
  3755. 748 KB
  3756. >>61923840 (OP)
  3757. >pic related
  3758. >>
  3759.  Anonymous (ID: CFMnq4cB)  01/24/16(Sun)19:34:14 No.61949409▶>>61950267
  3760. >>61948105
  3761. >Sorry I'm not into poetry man.
  3763. Markets need guidance in order to grow.
  3765. >>61948816
  3767. >What? This isn't how the economy works. Through that reasoning, we could create a bountiful utopia by increasing the money supply a million-fold.
  3769. It's what we've been discussing the entire fucking thread: deficit spending in times of depression, that is, creating and using new purchasing power during times of unemployment can reduce the unemployment and therefore increase output. Increased output = higher supply of goods. Higher supply of goods + higher supply of money = 0 INFLATION. FUCK.
  3770. >>
  3771.  Anonymous (ID: H4fi88cm)  01/24/16(Sun)19:35:34 No.61949528▶
  3772. Keynes legitimated fraud and was an eugenist, that's why /pol/ is keynesian.
  3773. >>
  3774.  Anonymous (ID: hxKB5L9O)  01/24/16(Sun)19:44:59 No.61950267▶
  3775. >>61949409
  3776. A depression is the inevitable correction of an unsustainable period of credit expansion. You will not solve the problem by doing more of what caused the problem in the first place.
  3777. >>
  3778.  Anonymous (ID: gat1qbdJ)  01/24/16(Sun)19:45:02 No.61950271▶
  3779. >>61947202
  3780. >>61947638
  3781. >There is a lot of truth to this.
  3782. There really isn't. Deficits have become quite unpopular, to the extent that politicians now try to cut popular and necessary programs (public education systems, public healthcare, research, etc.) to get the deficit boogeyman down.
  3783. Public debt is a non-issue (for national sovereign governments with zero solvency risk, that is).
  3784. Interest payments on public debt might be inflationary at some point if they become too large but that is easily fixed - just stop selling bonds to match deficits.
  3785. I know you're going to say "What about inflation?" (and it's a perfectly valid question) so read this: >>61944433
  3787. >>61948104
  3788. People have a hard time understanding that deficits financed by direct, overt money creation (so-called "money printing") and deficits "funded" by zero-risk bonds from the currency issuer are basically the same thing.
  3789. >>
  3790.  Anonymous (ID: gat1qbdJ)  01/24/16(Sun)19:45:40 No.61950318▶
  3791. >>61948816
  3792. >Certainly. But as we've seen over the past century, it is not the private sector that has contributed to inflation. The private sector cannot spend indefinitely, because they do not have access to a limitless supply of money. Only the government does.
  3793. I don't advocate for indefinite government spending, but enough spending to keep aggregate demand up and stay closer to a full employment economy.
  3794. The obsession with balanced budgets etc. is dangerous. I'm much more inclined toward Lerner's functional finance (as opposed to "sound finance"):
  3795. >How, then, would you explain >>61947979, if increasing the money supply has no real-world effect on inflation?
  3796. Under the gold standard (including Bretton Woods), the US had cycles of severe inflation and severe deflation. Now it just has low and steady inflation, so graphs like that will give the impression that something is horribly wrong. But actually, steady inflation is a much healthier state for the economy than frequent deflation.
  3797. I should reiterate that it's excessive aggregate demand, ie spending, that affects the price level - not the money supply. The money supply fluctuates all the time as credit is created and paid off but spending is what matters.
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