CitraBotBOT - 11/06/2017
<jroweboy> multiplayer ui pr is updated with some more about text about the design, screenshots, but i ran outta time when starting to write about how the code is organized :(
<neobrain> jroweboy: what are you hoping to achieve with the bold typeface?
<jroweboy> are you referring to the different sections?
<neobrain> nah, the screenshots
<neobrain> the Direct Connect one specifically
<jroweboy> oh in direct connect? yeah thats getting removed since we don't have traversal support. The idea was to bold things that were options
<jroweboy> as a way to help people differentiate what is an option they should change and what is explaination
<jroweboy> (but rest in peace traversal server dreams)
B3N30 - 11/06/2017
Maybe someone will take that task
Subv - 11/06/2017
Logging: Add a Service_NS log class for the NS service.
CitraBotBOT - 11/06/2017
<neobrain> jroweboy: Yeah, that idea doesn't work out in the first place
Subv - 11/06/2017
this sounds so redundant, but oh well
CitraBotBOT - 11/06/2017
<jroweboy> neobrain, i assume you are going to back that up?
<neobrain> try not to use "clever" formatting like that - it has a high chance to confuse users instead of helping them, and if you need word-based formatting in WIMP-based GUIs you are being overly verbose in the first place
<jroweboy> i appreciate the feedback. any suggestions on how to communicate what a host code/ traversal server is then?
<jroweboy> or what design i should be going with for direct connect? as i mentioned in the PR, this section was a secondary priority for first release, so less time went into it
<neobrain> I prefer to leave concrete case-specific suggestions as an exercise of the individual's creativity :)
<neobrain> For what it's worth though, I do find the sentence "Directly connect to a friend by a Traversal server or by IP address" entirely redundant
<neobrain> The words "Directly connect" are superfluous since they are apparent from context; "to a friend" even more so;
<jroweboy> agreed. i plan to remove all of the instructions block
<neobrain> "Traversal server" and "IP address" are the only interesting bits in that sentence, but mentioning them there is pointless because they are just technical terms which the user won't understand
<neobrain> FWIW, generally speaking if I (being a knowledgeable person wrt technical stuff) have to look at a piece of text for more than 2 seconds to understand what's going on, it's presented badly
<neobrain> here I am looking at that description and still wondering wtf a Traversal server is :p
CitraBotBOT - 11/06/2017
<jroweboy> the question is, neobrain senpai, did the rest of the ui meet your expectations? ;D
<neobrain> I hope you are well aware that question is just asking for disappointment in any context for me, right? :p
B3N30 - 11/06/2017
jroweboy: you forgot a screenshot of the icon in the status bar
CitraBotBOT - 11/06/2017
Command sent from IRC by neobrain:
... we have a status bar? geez people :/
<jroweboy> neobrain, i know you are very critical, but that doesn't invalidate your opinions.
<neobrain> well, for what it's worth - I find the UI elements badly positioned - unfortunately, applying to virtually all of them
<neobrain> They look as if they had been manually placed in the designer, even though from the .ui code it looks like you are indeed using Layouts
<jroweboy> you are pretty much the only person that'll give feedback on design, for better or worse.
<jroweboy> the room window disconnect button had other stuff up there that was yanked out, so now it looks outta place. Direct connect never got much attention so it looks like trash. (i'll add that to the todo list) the lobby "chat" button was added after i took a break.
<neobrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/952515/32460061-b9ed6940-c2ee-11e7-9c32-eb8c9a152678.png <-- what's the deal with the unused space there? (how do you even have that unless it was added intentionally?)

<neobrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/952515/32459824-1e636d08-c2ee-11e7-96d4-0ba053a258b8.png what's the deal with the randomly placed "disconnect" button?

<jroweboy> another case of "something was there". will remove that space then. gotta run, but thanks again for the feedback. will be back later to read anything else you have to say
<neobrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/952515/32458960-6356951e-c2eb-11e7-9b3b-33342f7ef756.png <- what's the deal with the grouping frame containing just a single element?

<neobrain> in the same one, why don't the two push buttons align vertically with the frames on the left?
<neobrain> Why is "Password" the leftmost (i.e. suggesting "first") column in the table?
<neobrain> (... "first" suggesting "important", ofc)
<jroweboy> nickname looked outta place without a grouping. password is left most because people can't join a password protected room, so it is the most important
<jroweboy> (imo)
<neobrain> Thing is, if you're using a grouping element (i.e. a frame) for a purpose other than grouping, then the element doesn't serve a purpose and is just clutter
<neobrain> clutter is bad. you want to choose the simplest design possible, and if your UI looks weird if done simple, that's another issue you need to tackle
<neobrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/952515/32459824-1e636d08-c2ee-11e7-96d4-0ba053a258b8.png <- where does the nick coloring come from? How bad will it look on my dark system color theme? what's the deal with the space between "Glucifer" and ">" ?

<neobrain> Why do none of the buttons have an accelerator set?
<neobrain> Why is the "Send Chat Message" textbox not focussed by default?
wwylele / 白疾風 - 11/06/2017
(reminds me that "Disconnect" was the default button during development)
CitraBotBOT - 11/06/2017
<neobrain> lol
<jroweboy> the space was from the user inputting a space in their name. don't like the idea of trimming it
wwylele / 白疾風 - 11/06/2017
you could just... not allow spaces in username
CitraBotBOT - 11/06/2017
<neobrain> Speaking of, not sure what your fancy private testing was good for when none of the testers gave you useful UI feedback :/
<jroweboy> as i said, no one gives ui feedback except you :P
<jroweboy> @wwylele / 白疾風 the spaces were added at the request of the testers
Flame Sage - 11/06/2017
Spaces in the username, not specifically at the start / end.
CitraBotBOT - 11/06/2017
<neobrain> good luck sanitizing utf8 usernames for this kind of stuff
<jroweboy> special characters aren't allowed in usernames
<jroweboy> (just because it'd be more effort than worth)
<neobrain> well, put that restriction on my list of complaints I guess :p
<jroweboy> fine. but i'm sticking by more work than worth on that one.
<neobrain> (unless with special characters you don't mean "nonstandard" stuff like umlauts and asian/arabic letters etc)
B3N30 - 11/06/2017
thats the regex for the username:  "^[a-zA-Z0-9._- ]+$"
so just . _ - and " " are currently allowed
CitraBotBOT - 11/06/2017
<neobrain> (speaking of, I do quite agree with the sentiment somebody expressed the other day - Why come up with a NIHed chat system that's bound to be crappy one way or the other due to time/resource constraints when people can just use external tools like that, which they will be used to for non-citra gaming anyway? You're just adding code complexity and maintenance overhead for a feature a lot of people will
<neobrain> either find unpleasant to work with or won't use in the first place)
shinyquagsire23 - 11/06/2017
I think there's some value to it
CitraBotBOT - 11/06/2017
<neobrain> I mean, ofc you already spent the effort there, but perhaps it's worth taking a step back and reconsider whether it was actually a good idea
shinyquagsire23 - 11/06/2017
Can't always coordinate with rooms of people that come and go easily
B3N30 - 11/06/2017
I think we had this discussion on IRC 6 months ago
And I was also against a chat system
jroweboy - 11/06/2017
On the other hand chat was another status message like all the others, and adding yet another dependency is pushing it.
Oh lol my nickname is different on here I forgot
B3N30 - 11/06/2017
But I agree that a minimal ability to coordinate with the other users in the room isn't bad
CitraBotBOT - 11/06/2017
<neobrain> shiny: some value, yes, if we were a comercial platform that actually had financial resources to pay people to maintain it. For Citra it's just a huge chunk of code that nobody will ever want to touch again once it "works" (i.e. it will break at some point and nobody will fix it)
shinyquagsire23 - 11/06/2017
The way I see it though it's like Pokemon Showdown, you're joining rooms of people and setting up another service is a hassle
If servers were invite-only and there was no list? Yeah it's probably redundant