(12:32:15) Hannah joined the channel.
(12:32:34) Young Jedi: flash when ur ready hannah
(12:32:46) Finchinator: take your time
(12:38:41) ±Dratini: dot was mysteriously kicked by E​mail!
(12:45:14) XY UU battle between Finchinator and Big Boy Cacturne started.
(12:48:31) Big Boy Cacturne won against Finchinator.
(12:51:33) ±Dratini: HisokaSaid was mysteriously kicked by E​speon!
(12:53:48) ±Dratini: rotse1 was mysteriously kicked by P​okemonistan!
(12:54:14) Bulbapedia refused your challenge.
(12:56:52) +Hannah: Finchinator
(12:56:54) +Hannah: Young Jedi
(12:56:57) +Hannah: lets go
(12:57:04) Finchinator: ok
(12:57:46) Young Jedi: kk
(12:57:52) Young Jedi: lets start with special appds
(12:57:53) Young Jedi: first
(12:58:03) Young Jedi: yn?
(12:58:08) Finchinator: i'm fine w/ whatevee
(12:58:22) Young Jedi: so i have
(12:58:37) ShowMeTheMankey joined the channel.
(12:58:37) Young Jedi: i denied all but two of the special apps
(12:58:42) ShowMeTheMankey left the channel.
(12:58:47) Young Jedi: being valentines and mewtwohidden
(12:58:52) Finchinator: uh
(12:58:57) Young Jedi: or do u guys
(12:58:58) Finchinator: can we get a list out of special apps
(12:59:00) Finchinator: and maybe
(12:59:00) Young Jedi: wanna go thru one by one
(12:59:03) Finchinator: talk them out one by one
(12:59:10) Finchinator: i'd think that's the most fair way to do it
(12:59:11) +Hannah: Yeah
(12:59:14) Young Jedi: alright
(12:59:20) +Hannah: Let's start with the first one
(12:59:22) +Hannah: from Valentine iirc
(12:59:25) Finchinator: y
(12:59:28) Young Jedi: yeah
(12:59:31) +Hannah: You guys should save the logs here + notepad the verdicts so far
(12:59:31) Young Jedi: i said accept
(12:59:43) Young Jedi: I can make the pastebin
(12:59:45) Young Jedi: of the verdicts
(12:59:53) Finchinator: Hey, i didn't meet reqs, but I think I should be able to vote. I've been busy with wcop over on Smogon, getting things together for POCL, and IRL work. Anyways, Gene is really unhealthy for the meta, there's really no reason not to run it, the Band set can clean up offense so well it's ridiculous. The combination of it's versatility and power make it very hard to play around, and over centralizes the meta. It has no real counters, and I'd like to include my vote to do what I can do ban it.
(12:59:53) Finchinator: Vote: Ban
(13:00:06) Finchinator: i was pretty borderline
(13:00:09) +Hannah: Eh.
(13:00:17) +Hannah: I don't like his reasoning for it tbh
(13:00:20) Finchinator: i know for a fact that he was busy wiht the things he mentioned - so i'll give him that
(13:00:21) Finchinator: BUT
(13:00:30) Finchinator: he was very tl;dr with his reasoning
(13:00:31) +Hannah: Yeah
(13:00:34) Young Jedi: mhm
(13:00:35) Finchinator: idk if it's sufficient
(13:00:35) +Hannah: He half assed things
(13:00:42) Finchinator: but i wouldn't say it was totally off, either
(13:01:21) The battle refused you watching (maybe Disallow Spectator clause is enabled?)
(13:01:42) Young Jedi: so what do u guys think
(13:01:54) Finchinator: the point about the band set and versatility are both pretty generic arguments for pro-ban of genesect and they're solid points, agreed
(13:02:01) +Hannah: I'd have liked if he elaborated on
(13:02:02) +Hannah: > Gene is really unhealthy for the meta, there's really no reason not to run it, the Band set can clean up offense so well it's ridiculous.
(13:02:04) Finchinator: i'd be fine accepting it if you guys think it's enough
(13:02:40) Young Jedi: hes saying at this point gene is so good that theres not much reason not to include it in your team
(13:02:46) Young Jedi: and creates an unhealthy meta
(13:02:47) Young Jedi: im kinda
(13:02:52) Young Jedi: putting words in his mouth
(13:02:56) Young Jedi: but only because i know him
(13:02:59) Finchinator: well
(13:03:01) Young Jedi: so idk
(13:03:12) Finchinator: i know what you're saying but we cant really
(13:03:15) Finchinator: take much into consideration
(13:03:18) Finchinator: bar what he pm'd us
(13:03:23) Finchinator: idk
(13:03:35) +Hannah: If it were someone else who submitted this paragraph
(13:03:39) +Hannah: would you guys accept it?
(13:03:43) Finchinator: i /want/ to accept this simply because the few points he brings up are all spot-on, but it's so tl;dr - which holds me back from being 100%
(13:03:49) Finchinator: uh
(13:03:52) +Hannah: Same @ finch
(13:03:56) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:03:58) Young Jedi: idk
(13:04:02) Finchinator: i mean i'm trying to disregard who submitted it
(13:04:06) Finchinator: so that's why i'm borderline here
(13:04:48) +Hannah: haha we're terrible at this
(13:05:18) Young Jedi: lol
(13:05:22) Young Jedi: i mean
(13:05:30) Young Jedi: my vote is accept
(13:05:35) +Hannah: Alright
(13:05:38) Young Jedi: just because his points are correct
(13:05:43) +Hannah: I'll probably take Finch's as accept too
(13:05:45) Young Jedi: even if tl;dr version
(13:05:58) +Hannah: We can't really let paragraphs like those slide all the time though, so we'll take this as an exception
(13:05:59) +Hannah: !!
(13:06:05) Young Jedi: !
(13:06:33) ±Chatot: Hannah changed the topic to: Ban - 1 (Valentine) / No Ban - 0
(13:06:46) Finchinator: at least he isn't saying
(13:06:49) Finchinator: it's counterd by skarmory
(13:06:52) Finchinator: or can run 10 moves and three items
(13:06:53) Finchinator: lol.
(13:07:00) +Hannah: next
(13:07:01) Young Jedi: lel
(13:07:26) +Hannah: Meeps' paragraph is good for me
(13:07:27) Young Jedi: so are we going in order
(13:07:28) Young Jedi: ok
(13:07:29) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:07:30) Young Jedi: meeps
(13:07:32) Finchinator: meeps' paragraph is
(13:07:34) Young Jedi: <accept
(13:07:35) Finchinator: one of the best ones
(13:07:38) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:07:43) Young Jedi: kinda no brainer here
(13:08:05) +Hannah: if he wasn't trying so hard to be lazy and illiterate
(13:08:09) +Hannah: he'd be the best tier leader
(13:08:21) Young Jedi: lol
(13:08:23) Young Jedi: anyway
(13:08:28) Young Jedi: so were on the same page right?
(13:08:30) Young Jedi: accept?
(13:08:31) +Hannah: next is Zamrock's
(13:08:34) Young Jedi: k
(13:08:37) Young Jedi: zamrocks
(13:08:38) Young Jedi: is eh
(13:08:42) Young Jedi: he makes some points
(13:08:44) Young Jedi: but
(13:08:44) Finchinator: zam's is
(13:08:45) Finchinator: kinda bad
(13:08:46) Finchinator: imo
(13:08:47) +Hannah: Ban - 2 (Valentine, Meeps) / No Ban - 0
(13:08:47) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:08:54) ±Chatot: Finchinator changed the topic to: Ban - 2 (Valentine, Meeps) / No Ban - 0
(13:08:56) Young Jedi: im keeping track in a pastebin
(13:09:01) Young Jedi: if u guys dont wanna do that
(13:09:04) Finchinator: Zamrock | Pro-Ban | Reject | Knows OU well and understands Genesect, but couldn’t put together a solid argument supporting the side he voted for.
(13:09:09) Finchinator: is what i have in my little word doc
(13:09:12) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:09:14) Finchinator: that i took some notes on
(13:09:15) Young Jedi: mine is pretty much the same
(13:09:15) +Hannah: yeah
(13:09:20) +Hannah: Reject!
(13:09:21) +Hannah: >:O
(13:09:48) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:09:49) Young Jedi: reject
(13:10:00) Finchinator: rip
(13:10:04) Finchinator: next uppp
(13:10:06) ±Dratini: [NSN] RustyFork was mysteriously kicked by S​howMeTheMankey!
(13:10:07) Finchinator: MUMU
(13:10:08) Finchinator: whose was
(13:10:12) Finchinator: surprisingly goodish
(13:10:12) Finchinator: imo
(13:10:16) +Hannah: I'm okay with MUMU's paragraph
(13:10:17) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:10:19) Young Jedi: I said
(13:10:20) Young Jedi: accept
(13:10:21) Young Jedi: to his
(13:10:23) +Hannah: points are kidna like Valentine's
(13:10:32) ±Chatot: Hannah changed the topic to: Ban - 2 (Valentine, Meeps) / No Ban - 1 (MUMU)
(13:10:38) +Hannah: by that I mean kinda condensed
(13:11:04) +Hannah: Luck>Skill
(13:11:18) Young Jedi: Accept
(13:11:19) Finchinator: luck wrote
(13:11:19) Young Jedi: again
(13:11:20) Finchinator: an essay
(13:11:22) Finchinator: but i'd accept
(13:11:22) Young Jedi: no brainer
(13:11:24) Finchinator: easily
(13:11:27) Young Jedi: his was the best one
(13:11:28) Young Jedi: imo
(13:12:05) +Hannah: The only thing bothering me is the part where
(13:12:11) +Hannah: Heatran is just consistently getting worn down
(13:12:15) +Hannah: while Genesect/opponent's team isn't
(13:12:18) +Hannah: but other than that
(13:12:19) +Hannah: accept
(13:12:24) Young Jedi: ok
(13:12:25) Finchinator: heatran counters genesect
(13:12:29) Finchinator: luck overragtes uturn a bit but
(13:12:31) Finchinator: i can overlook it
(13:12:39) Young Jedi: next is
(13:12:39) Finchinator: being that the rest of what he has was solid
(13:12:43) Finchinator: next is -lucario-
(13:12:44) Finchinator: iirc
(13:12:44) Young Jedi: - Lucario -
(13:12:46) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:12:47) Young Jedi: i was
(13:12:49) Young Jedi: borderline
(13:12:54) Young Jedi: on his
(13:12:57) Young Jedi: leaning to accept
(13:13:00) Finchinator: Honestly, he kinda misses the main points of the reason for it being broken and emphasizes too much on things like Shift Gear and Scarf, which aren’t of too much importance, in my opinion, thus making his argument weak.
(13:13:00) Young Jedi: but some of it
(13:13:05) Young Jedi: is just missing parts
(13:13:21) +Hannah: Ban - 2 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill) / No Ban - 1 (MUMU)
(13:13:49) ±Chatot: Finchinator changed the topic to: Ban - 3 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill) / No Ban - 1 (MUMU)
(13:13:55) Young Jedi: so
(13:13:58) Finchinator: i'm also borderlin on him but
(13:14:00) Finchinator: i'd lean
(13:14:02) Finchinator: reject tbh
(13:14:08) Young Jedi: what do you think
(13:14:10) Young Jedi: hannah
(13:14:17) +Hannah: his paragraph kinda touches on all the arguments we dont want
(13:14:20) +Hannah: >overcentralizing
(13:14:22) +Hannah: >shift gear
(13:14:24) Finchinator: >scarf
(13:14:29) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:14:32) Finchinator: i don't see us
(13:14:34) Young Jedi: ok reject then
(13:14:35) Finchinator: realistically accepting it
(13:14:38) Finchinator: so yea rejecgt
(13:14:41) Finchinator: reject*
(13:14:46) Finchinator: Rage.
(13:15:01) Finchinator: i'd reject rage
(13:15:12) Young Jedi: reject
(13:15:23) +Hannah: Hmm
(13:15:24) +Hannah: why
(13:15:51) Finchinator: U-turn Genesect really suffers from Stealth Rock because it switches in and out pretty often. If there are Spikes up, too, it is like instant death for it, since DeoSharp is quite common (usage goes back due to the Deo-D+S ban on smogon, but still a very strong playstyle).
(13:15:53) Young Jedi: well
(13:15:56) Young Jedi: not only that
(13:15:58) Young Jedi: he gives
(13:15:59) Finchinator: doesn't take into consideration it could be up on both sides of the field
(13:16:01) Young Jedi: absolutely no reason
(13:16:05) Young Jedi: as to why he should be allowed
(13:16:07) Finchinator: he calls anything that resists uturn basically a check
(13:16:08) Young Jedi: a special app
(13:16:13) Young Jedi: to begin that
(13:16:25) Young Jedi: and yea anything that resists bug is wat counters genesect in his mind
(13:16:34) Young Jedi: considering its uturning out as it is
(13:16:39) Finchinator: also his special app reasoning is questionable, but even if I overlooked that, I wouldn't accept
(13:16:52) Young Jedi: Why didn't I reach 1400: idk, i concentrated mostly on UU instead of OU, so i didn't ladder much in OU.
(13:16:52) Young Jedi: Why should I be able to vote: Because I peaked high on XY OU earlier (april 2014):
(13:17:00) Young Jedi: i dont think thats solid reasoning for a special app
(13:17:03) Young Jedi: imo
(13:17:11) +Hannah: uh
(13:17:28) +Hannah: I kind of disagree with both, but majority etc
(13:17:34) Finchinator: explain where you
(13:17:36) Finchinator: disagree with
(13:17:40) Finchinator: i can be persuaded
(13:17:42) +Hannah: (01:07:43) Young Jedi: Why didn't I reach 1400: idk, i concentrated mostly on UU instead of OU, so i didn't ladder much in OU.
(13:17:42) +Hannah: (01:07:43) Young Jedi: Why should I be able to vote: Because I peaked high on XY OU earlier (april 2014):
(13:17:42) +Hannah: (01:07:51) Young Jedi: i dont think thats solid reasoning for a special app
(13:17:55) Young Jedi: 1400 is still pretty low ladder to begin with
(13:17:56) +Hannah: First of all, we accepted Valentine's special app bcause he had WCOP things to do
(13:17:58) Young Jedi: on the april ladder
(13:18:07) Young Jedi: and valentine is playing in a prestigous tour
(13:18:10) +Hannah: I don't see why we can't consider entertaining the special app
(13:18:16) +Hannah: because people have more important things to do
(13:18:25) Finchinator: (13:16:39) Finchinator: also his special app reasoning is questionable, but even if I overlooked that, I wouldn't accept
(13:18:27) Young Jedi: he doesnt even
(13:18:31) Young Jedi: specify what he peaked at
(13:18:31) Young Jedi: tho
(13:18:35) Young Jedi: "peaking high"
(13:18:38) Young Jedi: could be 1370
(13:18:41) Young Jedi: for him
(13:18:43) Young Jedi: we dont know that
(13:18:51) +Hannah: As well as
(13:19:02) +Hannah: both mumu and meeps didnt really add reasons to their special apps
(13:19:11) Young Jedi: meeps
(13:19:12) Young Jedi: got reqs
(13:19:14) Finchinator: meeps got reqs
(13:19:14) Young Jedi: and so did
(13:19:15) Young Jedi: mumu
(13:19:18) +Hannah: oh
(13:19:18) +Hannah: right
(13:19:20) Young Jedi: they claimed alts
(13:19:22) +Hannah: nevermind me then
(13:19:24) Young Jedi: lol
(13:19:26) +Hannah: I don't have the list currently
(13:19:28) Finchinator: no worries
(13:19:32) +Hannah: I thought these apps were all
(13:19:33) +Hannah: special
(13:19:37) +Hannah: so I didn't bother checking
(13:19:43) Finchinator: o lol
(13:19:52) Finchinator: i thought we were
(13:19:54) Finchinator: just going in order
(13:19:57) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:19:58) Finchinator: of sent
(13:20:00) +Hannah: I'm just looking through my conversations
(13:20:01) +Hannah: lol
(13:20:01) Young Jedi: this one was claimed
(13:20:02) Finchinator: sorry for confusion
(13:20:06) +Hannah: anyways
(13:20:15) +Hannah: His point on anything resisting U-turn was explained quite well imo
(13:20:22) ±Dratini: al ex was muted by E​mail for 1 hour! [Reason: use the find battle button/spam] [Channel: Tohjo Falls]
(13:20:23) +Hannah: It's not that the Pokemon he resisted counters Genesect
(13:20:25) +Hannah: it's that
(13:20:39) Young Jedi: hes also talking about things like thunderbolt
(13:20:40) Young Jedi: which
(13:20:43) Young Jedi: no one really uses
(13:20:51) +Hannah: >Genesect can't afford to overpredict the switches too often, like against Keldeo, going for Thunderbolt and running into Charizard X after the kill, but also against other U-turn switchins, e.g. Aegislash, Thunderbolt doesn't deal much damage and even gives the opponent the complete momentum.
(13:20:53) Finchinator: only a backslash on special scarf
(13:20:59) +Hannah: The latter part
(13:21:15) Young Jedi: ?
(13:21:18) Young Jedi: about thunderbolt?
(13:21:20) +Hannah: where those Pokemon allow you to have a switch in to most of genesect's moves
(13:21:23) Young Jedi: almsot no one uses that
(13:21:30) +Hannah: and there's 1-2 moves that pose actual threat
(13:21:46) Finchinator: keldeo switches into gene's uturn and then dies to espeed. zard-x isn't switching into anything too often. aegi is a /check/ in most scenarios.
(13:22:10) +Hannah: How much does U-turn do to genesect?
(13:22:21) +Hannah: err
(13:22:22) +Hannah: Keldeo*
(13:22:24) ±Dratini: E​mail changed al ex's mute time to 2 hours from now! [Reason: extending, use the find battle button and dont spam] [Channel: Indigo Plateau]
(13:22:29) Young Jedi: banded does around 30-35
(13:22:30) Young Jedi: iirc
(13:22:42) Young Jedi: lemme calc
(13:22:49) +Hannah: the combo if you may
(13:22:54) +Hannah: because that goes to show another reasoning
(13:22:59) +Hannah: that you have to follow up with Extremespeed
(13:23:07) Finchinator: +1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 132-156 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(13:23:08) Finchinator: WITH BOOST
(13:23:13) +Hannah: Genesect can't afford to overpredict the switches too often
(13:23:17) Finchinator: 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 89-105 (27.5 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
(13:23:18) Finchinator: WITHOUT BOOST
(13:23:31) Young Jedi: its not really overpredicting
(13:23:31) Finchinator: 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 136-160 (42.1 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(13:23:33) Finchinator: WITHOUT BOOST
(13:23:34) Young Jedi: if your going for uturn
(13:23:36) Young Jedi: since thats
(13:23:43) Finchinator: +1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 203-239 (62.8 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(13:23:44) Finchinator: WITH BOOST
(13:23:45) Young Jedi: an extremely safe move if you expect a switch
(13:23:46) +Hannah: mkay
(13:23:47) Finchinator: (big damage lmao)
(13:23:55) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:23:56) Young Jedi: thats
(13:23:58) Finchinator: 73% w/ non-stab espeed
(13:24:00) Young Jedi: kinda rediculous
(13:24:04) Young Jedi: to kill after one uturn hit
(13:24:10) Young Jedi: if u have an attack boost on either
(13:24:19) +Hannah: Mkay
(13:24:27) Young Jedi: so like i said
(13:24:29) Young Jedi: i say reject
(13:24:36) +Hannah: Anyways, I'm not really sold on it since he really touched on the point that I really want to emphasize
(13:24:41) +Hannah: but I'm okay with this being a reject
(13:24:50) Young Jedi: mostly the reject part being
(13:24:58) Young Jedi: the lack of reasoning
(13:25:00) Young Jedi: in the beginning
(13:25:06) Young Jedi: as to why he should be allowed to have a special app
(13:25:17) Young Jedi: where he gives pretty much none
(13:25:30) +Hannah: Let's move on to the next one
(13:25:46) Young Jedi: pokemoniseasy
(13:26:02) Finchinator: (special app w/ acceptable reasoning)
(13:26:15) Young Jedi: its
(13:26:18) Young Jedi: a decent paragraph
(13:26:28) Finchinator: i am
(13:26:29) Young Jedi: the only thing that irks me is talonflame and venusaur mentioned as switchins
(13:26:32) Finchinator: a-ok w/ accepting it
(13:26:39) +Hannah: Well
(13:26:41) Finchinator: he kinda bs's a counter or two but
(13:26:45) Finchinator: that's overlookable
(13:26:47) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:26:49) Young Jedi: id accept
(13:26:51) Young Jedi: most likely
(13:26:52) +Hannah: Venusaur counters the special set pretty good
(13:26:58) +Hannah: but yeah, Banded is all the shit now
(13:27:06) Young Jedi: banded is most common
(13:27:17) Young Jedi: also
(13:27:19) Young Jedi: bug buzz
(13:27:21) Young Jedi: 2hkos
(13:27:21) +Hannah: Ban - 3 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy)
(13:27:25) +Hannah: not spdef
(13:27:26) Young Jedi: just keep that in mind
(13:27:40) Young Jedi: on the switch in
(13:27:40) ±Chatot: Finchinator changed the topic to: Ban - 3 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy)
(13:27:41) Young Jedi: it does
(13:27:43) Finchinator: depends on sets and situation
(13:27:47) Finchinator: let's just say that.
(13:27:51) +Hannah: if it's the scarf set
(13:27:56) Finchinator: scarf set is walled
(13:27:56) Finchinator: yea
(13:27:59) +Hannah: Bug Buzz leaves little room for prediction
(13:28:16) Young Jedi: and
(13:28:18) Young Jedi: if its banded
(13:28:20) Young Jedi: ur taking
(13:28:21) +Hannah: Apimpnamedslickback
(13:28:22) Young Jedi: a ton from uturn
(13:28:25) Young Jedi: anyway
(13:28:25) Finchinator: lol
(13:28:27) Finchinator: apimpnamedslicker
(13:28:33) Young Jedi: apimpnamedslickback is eh
(13:28:41) Finchinator: pimp is my fren but his reasoning in general was
(13:28:44) Finchinator: very shaky
(13:28:45) +Hannah: >didn't know much about this meta as I got into it a week ago
(13:28:48) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:28:50) Young Jedi: that bothered me
(13:28:53) Young Jedi: he hasnt played
(13:28:54) Young Jedi: gene meta
(13:28:57) Finchinator: he came back
(13:28:58) Finchinator: 2 weeks ago
(13:28:59) Young Jedi: which makes me want to reject
(13:29:01) Finchinator: pm'd me on his alt
(13:29:06) Finchinator: "I'M BACK FINCHNIGGER"
(13:29:10) Finchinator: and now he knows about gene????
(13:29:16) +Hannah: >and with the introduction of the fairy type, Genesect's typing is no longer a reason to ban him
(13:29:20) +Hannah: I dont want to accept this
(13:29:24) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:29:26) Young Jedi: lol
(13:29:29) Young Jedi: reject imo
(13:29:48) Finchinator: i hate rejecting friends but
(13:29:49) +Hannah: okay
(13:29:50) Finchinator: can't accept this
(13:29:50) Finchinator: so yea
(13:29:51) Finchinator: rip
(13:29:52) +Hannah: Sinclair's
(13:30:06) Finchinator: reject.
(13:30:09) Finchinator: bad user
(13:30:09) +Hannah: man
(13:30:10) Finchinator: bad player
(13:30:11) +Hannah: I open that up
(13:30:22) +Hannah: >dis bitch butthole inside out nigga
(13:30:25) Young Jedi: LOL
(13:30:50) Finchinator: lmao
(13:30:53) tyrenitr: User MewtwoHidden has logged in
(13:31:10) +Hannah: Let us accept both of yours
(13:31:12) Young Jedi: any objections to mine?
(13:31:15) Young Jedi: ok
(13:31:20) +Hannah: I was gonna make a paragraph but
(13:31:26) +Hannah: uni + typhoons + stuff
(13:31:28) +Hannah: so w/e
(13:31:39) Young Jedi: rip
(13:31:41) Finchinator: everything doing good after the typhoon?
(13:31:43) tyrenitr: User ZoroDark has logged in
(13:31:52) +Hannah: Not really
(13:31:57) +Hannah: still no electricity/water at home
(13:31:59) Finchinator: :[
(13:32:02) Finchinator: gl getting it back
(13:32:03) +Hannah: I'm playing from a cafe right now
(13:32:37) Young Jedi: next one is hiphiphooray
(13:32:45) Finchinator: how about
(13:32:47) Finchinator: the one under sinclair
(13:32:48) Finchinator: 's
(13:33:04) +Hannah: Ban - 5 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclairl) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy)
(13:33:08) Finchinator: oo
(13:33:10) Young Jedi: Genesect is still suspect to the abundance of priority attacks in this generation, as well as focus sash users.
(13:33:10) Finchinator: accepted
(13:33:16) Young Jedi: whos under me
(13:33:17) ±Chatot: Hannah changed the topic to: Ban - 5 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclairl) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy)
(13:33:17) ±Chatot: Finchinator changed the topic to: Ban - 5 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclairl) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy)
(13:33:19) Finchinator: me
(13:33:21) Finchinator: lol snyped
(13:33:34) Young Jedi: o
(13:33:39) Young Jedi: so yea
(13:33:41) Young Jedi: hiphiphooray
(13:33:45) Young Jedi: i dont like this one
(13:33:46) Young Jedi: either
(13:33:54) Young Jedi: Genesect is still suspect to the abundance of priority attacks in this generation, as well as focus sash users.
(13:33:56) Young Jedi: theres only like
(13:34:02) Young Jedi: one or two prominent sash users
(13:34:03) Young Jedi: if that
(13:34:17) Young Jedi: and all prio is neutral
(13:34:19) Young Jedi: or resisted
(13:34:30) Young Jedi: while having a +2 prio
(13:34:31) Young Jedi: itself
(13:34:45) Finchinator: sash chomp sash loom
(13:34:57) Young Jedi: the only counter he lists as well
(13:34:59) Young Jedi: is heatran
(13:35:03) Finchinator: well it is the
(13:35:04) Young Jedi: I'd say
(13:35:06) Finchinator: only "counter"
(13:35:10) Young Jedi: true but
(13:35:12) Young Jedi: id like to see more
(13:35:16) Young Jedi: checks at least
(13:35:17) Finchinator: lemme pull it up
(13:35:19) Finchinator: really quick
(13:35:43) Young Jedi: he also makes an entire point based off shift gear
(13:35:44) Young Jedi: which
(13:35:46) Finchinator: shift gear + scarf
(13:35:48) Young Jedi: like we said earlier
(13:35:49) Finchinator: gets too much of a mention
(13:35:52) +Hannah: y
(13:35:53) Young Jedi: is something to stray from
(13:35:57) +Hannah: Though
(13:35:57) Young Jedi: so i say reject
(13:36:00) +Hannah: Scarf is kind of
(13:36:03) +Hannah: necessary
(13:36:04) +Hannah: because usage
(13:36:05) Young Jedi: scarf is prevelant
(13:36:05) +Hannah: and stuff
(13:36:06) Finchinator: i guess
(13:36:06) Young Jedi: true
(13:36:08) Young Jedi: but
(13:36:09) Finchinator: that's true
(13:36:10) +Hannah: Shift Gear though
(13:36:10) Young Jedi: his other points
(13:36:12) Young Jedi: dont cut it
(13:36:21) Finchinator: he's kinda
(13:36:23) Finchinator: all over the place
(13:36:27) Young Jedi: mhm
(13:36:27) Finchinator: if that makes sense
(13:37:03) Young Jedi: so ur guys' votes?
(13:37:07) Young Jedi: mine is reject
(13:37:14) +Hannah: I'm for accepting that
(13:37:17) +Hannah: Up to finch
(13:37:37) Finchinator: hm
(13:37:44) +Hannah: because I kind of understand his points
(13:37:47) Finchinator: alright let's look at it in perspective
(13:37:49) +Hannah: but it's the tl;dr version
(13:37:50) +Hannah: I guess
(13:38:29) Young Jedi: Genesect is limited to non-STAB espeed, which needs a Choice Band to ensure KO's against common hyper offensive threats.
(13:38:32) Young Jedi: we also established
(13:38:37) Young Jedi: this isnt neccessarily a bad thing
(13:38:38) Finchinator: Genesect isn't too weak to priority and the speed is compensated by the "most common" scarf set or espeed on other sets.
(13:38:42) Young Jedi: because with a boost
(13:38:45) Young Jedi: its really strong
(13:38:51) Finchinator: as we saw in calcs before, espeed isn't as bad as he advertises it
(13:39:00) Finchinator: he emphasizes on the nearly irrelevant shift gear set
(13:39:03) Finchinator: that's a lot to disregard
(13:39:05) Finchinator: to accept
(13:39:10) Finchinator: idk
(13:39:18) +Hannah: >It lost a few key resistances and gained a few new checks and counters. Genesect's weakness lies in it's sub-par speed, which means it is suspect to revenge killing. In order to function effectively it must sacrifice offensive ability for speed..
(13:39:20) Finchinator: i don't want to reject this guy as he's put forth effort
(13:39:22) +Hannah: This is a pretty good point imo
(13:39:24) Finchinator: and has a couple solid points
(13:39:28) Finchinator: but he has a lot of
(13:39:29) Finchinator: poor points too
(13:39:35) Finchinator: i think they might outweigh the good ones, tbh
(13:39:47) Young Jedi: thats about the only good point to fish out
(13:39:49) Young Jedi: the rest of them
(13:39:53) Young Jedi: are pretty much moot
(13:40:18) Young Jedi: also
(13:40:19) +Hannah: I think the issue is
(13:40:20) Young Jedi: 99 speed
(13:40:23) +Hannah: he tried to take in too many points
(13:40:24) Young Jedi: isnt sub par
(13:40:25) Young Jedi: or as slow
(13:40:30) Young Jedi: as he makes it seem
(13:40:36) +Hannah: maybe because of wanting to make a summation
(13:41:08) Young Jedi: still up to you finch
(13:41:27) Finchinator: one second
(13:41:31) Finchinator: just rereading this fully
(13:41:34) Finchinator: and considering everything I can
(13:42:29) Finchinator: the resistances and the sub par speed are the only acceptable points t
(13:42:40) Finchinator: the cons lie in the shift gear mention and the
(13:42:45) Finchinator: priority "weakness" while undermining espeed
(13:42:57) +Hannah: I think the shift gear mention is just to cover something he think might be basis
(13:43:10) Finchinator: i don't see any mention of mixed LO and the CB gets referenced indirectly once
(13:43:20) Finchinator: those are the controversial sets and I just see it as him dancing around the topic
(13:43:22) +Hannah: hmm, that's true
(13:43:31) Finchinator: if not for this, I'd accept, but for it - I'm hesitant and leaning torwards rejecting
(13:43:51) Young Jedi: the thing that bothers me most is he puts more emphasis on shift gear than banded
(13:43:53) Young Jedi: when it should be
(13:43:55) ±Dratini: vagg0z was muted by S​howMeTheMankey for 1 hour! [Reason: inappropriate] [Channel: Tohjo Falls]
(13:43:56) Young Jedi: the other way around
(13:43:56) ±Dratini: vagg0z was mysteriously kicked by E​mail!
(13:44:06) Young Jedi: considering usage and effectiveness
(13:44:13) Young Jedi: mostly efectiveness
(13:45:30) Finchinator: not a single mention of speical LO
(13:45:55) Finchinator: as i said before, he's dancing around the controverisla topics and filling it in with a good psuedo point or two like the resistances being lost and speed
(13:46:03) Finchinator: i don't see it al amounting up to enough to be not broken
(13:46:15) Finchinator: "too weak" or "too indirect" of an argument to accept
(13:46:16) Finchinator: if you will
(13:46:22) +Hannah: mkay
(13:48:10) Finchinator: NEXT OFF
(13:48:18) Finchinator: jennifer lopez
(13:48:20) Young Jedi: Arvind
(13:48:21) Young Jedi: i have
(13:48:22) Young Jedi: arvind
(13:48:23) Young Jedi: next
(13:48:25) +Hannah: rejecting Arvind
(13:48:27) Finchinator: o
(13:48:30) +Hannah: Pretty sure you guys would too
(13:48:31) Finchinator: i'm out of order
(13:48:34) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:48:36) Young Jedi: his was
(13:48:36) Young Jedi: awful
(13:48:37) Finchinator: i'd reject
(13:48:38) Finchinator: that
(13:48:40) Finchinator: in a heartbeat
(13:48:44) Finchinator: did you guys get an app from
(13:48:47) Finchinator: jennifer lopez
(13:48:47) Finchinator: or n
(13:48:56) Young Jedi: next is
(13:49:03) Young Jedi: metalgross
(13:49:04) Young Jedi: on mine
(13:49:07) Finchinator: http://puu.sh/afy1C/b56fabb5b2.png
(13:49:10) Finchinator: only sent it to me
(13:49:17) Finchinator: he's the reason why i made the post that I did
(13:49:18) Young Jedi: lopez
(13:49:19) Young Jedi: is
(13:49:19) Finchinator: a day or two ago
(13:49:21) Young Jedi: after that
(13:49:22) Finchinator: oh
(13:49:23) Young Jedi: on mine
(13:49:24) Finchinator: he probably
(13:49:27) Finchinator: sent it to you guys later
(13:49:28) Finchinator: y/y
(13:49:42) +Hannah: I got that
(13:49:44) Young Jedi: so metalgross
(13:49:45) Young Jedi: ?
(13:49:52) +Hannah: Eh I have no issues with Metalgross
(13:49:57) Young Jedi: yeah his was good
(13:49:59) +Hannah: pretty cut with the other paragraphs though
(13:50:16) Young Jedi: There are also some other sets (Scarf, Rock Polish) but those are not the problem, even though they help Genesect's unpredictability.
(13:50:19) Young Jedi: i like the point
(13:50:21) Young Jedi: he makes here
(13:50:43) Young Jedi: giving them mention but saying that they arent the issue which breaks gene
(13:50:47) Young Jedi: i say accept
(13:50:56) +Hannah: accepting Metalgross'
(13:51:06) Young Jedi: ok
(13:51:10) Young Jedi: now jennifer lopez
(13:51:16) Finchinator: accept metal
(13:51:17) ±Chatot: Topic for this channel is: Ban - 5 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclairl) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy)
(13:51:17) ±Chatot: Topic was set by F​inchinator
(13:51:17) ±Chatot: Specify a topic to set one!
(13:51:32) Young Jedi: so
(13:51:33) Finchinator: Ban - 6 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclair, Metalgross) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy)
(13:51:35) Young Jedi: this is a special app
(13:51:37) ±Chatot: Finchinator changed the topic to: Ban - 6 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclair, Metalgross) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy)
(13:51:39) +Hannah: oh
(13:51:42) Young Jedi: his reasoning to accept his
(13:51:46) Finchinator: So it is a little late but it's still 11:30 pm Tuesday where I live. Just recently got reqs for the vote. Here's a screenshot to prove:
(13:51:46) Finchinator: http://imgur.com/iksxMcE
(13:51:50) Young Jedi: Just recently got reqs for the vote. Here's a screenshot to prove:
(13:51:50) Young Jedi: http://imgur.com/iksxMcE
(13:51:56) Young Jedi: was getting reqs after
(13:51:58) Finchinator: idgi
(13:51:58) Young Jedi: did he send us
(13:52:00) Finchinator: he said he got reqs
(13:52:01) Young Jedi: different paragraphs
(13:52:01) Young Jedi: ?
(13:52:04) Finchinator: at 11:30 PM tuesday his time
(13:52:10) Finchinator: yet he sent us the PM during
(13:52:11) Finchinator: thursday
(13:52:16) ±Dratini: [OTK]ElusiveAssassin was mysteriously kicked by S​howMeTheMankey!
(13:52:18) Finchinator: err
(13:52:20) Finchinator: wednesday
(13:52:24) +Hannah: Just recently got reqs for the vote. Here's a screenshot to prove:
(13:52:24) +Hannah: http://imgur.com/iksxMcE
(13:52:24) +Hannah: My vote is to not ban Genesect.
(13:52:24) +Hannah: Genesect is a great Pokemon with great typing, however it is reliant upon a choice item. Choice band is in my opinion its best option by guaranteeing a +1 attack. However this alone does not make it amazing due to its low base power options. Iron head at 80 (120 stab), e speed at 80 and u turn 70 bp (105 stab), are all powerful at +1 but handlable. Because Genesect is locked into a move it is easy to force the switch. The most dangerous thing is the effective +2 when switched in on a specially defensive poke. However, it is easy to revenge kill if it is not locked into e speed due to its non scarfed 90 base speed. With e speed lock, Aegi and Gengar can force the switch and do massive damage to whatever comes in. Iron head can be handled by many of the bulky waters available. If a player wishes to alleviate this lack of speed, then Genesect loses a lot of power.
(13:52:24) +Hannah: Overall Genesect is powerful but not broken, especially after the steel nerf and the knock off boost. Both of those things combined make it much easier to either kill or severely weaken Genesect. Because of all of these things, Genesect should, in my opinion, remain in OU.
(13:52:26) Young Jedi: well he couldve just waited to write it
(13:52:38) ±Dratini: Galaxy Utopia was mysteriously kicked by E​speon!
(13:52:39) Finchinator: http://puu.sh/afy1C/b56fabb5b2.png
(13:52:41) Finchinator: this is what i got
(13:52:43) Young Jedi: Genesect is a great Pokemon with great typing, however it is reliant upon a choice item.
(13:52:49) Young Jedi: again no mention of mix orb
(13:53:02) Finchinator: what's wrong with
(13:53:04) Finchinator: choiced pokemon
(13:53:04) Finchinator: lol
(13:53:13) +Hannah: Hmm\
(13:53:15) Young Jedi: the only
(13:53:16) Young Jedi: mention
(13:53:18) Finchinator: also, he's mentioning how stab iron head and uturn are weak..
(13:53:20) Young Jedi: of switchins include
(13:53:23) Young Jedi: aegi and gengar
(13:53:26) Young Jedi: otehr than that
(13:53:31) Young Jedi: he doesnt list much to counter it
(13:53:35) Young Jedi: or check it
(13:53:41) Finchinator: gengar isn't a switch in to anything bar uturn or bugz buzz
(13:53:48) +Hannah: he mentioned espeed
(13:53:49) +Hannah: also
(13:53:53) +Hannah: Gengar is falling out
(13:53:58) Young Jedi: However, it is easy to revenge kill if it is not locked into e speed due to its non scarfed 90 base speed.
(13:53:58) +Hannah: so I'm not sure Gengar really shines at all
(13:54:00) Young Jedi: he also
(13:54:03) Young Jedi: doesnt know its base speed
(13:54:04) Finchinator: gengar is
(13:54:08) Finchinator: not a check
(13:54:16) Young Jedi: he says its base 90 speed
(13:54:19) Finchinator: >90 base speed
(13:54:22) ±Dratini: EJ27 was mysteriously kicked by E​speon!
(13:54:23) Finchinator: i'm not
(13:54:25) Finchinator: accepting this
(13:54:32) +Hannah: Same
(13:54:38) Young Jedi: same
(13:54:59) Finchinator: good
(13:55:01) Finchinator: agreement
(13:55:04) Finchinator: i like agreeing
(13:55:08) Finchinator: too bad it hardly happens
(13:55:08) Finchinator: lol
(13:55:17) Young Jedi: executive archer
(13:55:18) Young Jedi: is next
(13:55:22) Finchinator: i have
(13:55:23) Finchinator: archer next
(13:55:26) Finchinator: i'm rejecting.
(13:55:47) +Hannah: I'm rejecting Archer's as well
(13:55:56) Young Jedi: same
(13:55:57) +Hannah: Genesect is new Arceus
(13:56:00) Young Jedi: he makes okay points
(13:56:01) Young Jedi: but
(13:56:03) Young Jedi: yeah..
(13:56:12) Finchinator: he made
(13:56:14) Finchinator: one decent point
(13:56:15) Finchinator: the rest awful
(13:56:17) Finchinator: not acceptable
(13:56:18) Finchinator: etc.
(13:56:22) Young Jedi: m2h
(13:56:23) Young Jedi: next
(13:56:24) Finchinator: rip [TR]
(13:56:25) Young Jedi: i say accept
(13:56:28) Finchinator: m2h is actually good
(13:56:28) Finchinator: imo
(13:56:30) +Hannah: Yeah
(13:56:37) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:56:40) Young Jedi: one of the better apps
(13:56:54) ±Chatot: Topic for this channel is: Ban - 6 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclair, Metalgross) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy)
(13:56:54) ±Chatot: Topic was set by F​inchinator
(13:56:54) ±Chatot: Specify a topic to set one!
(13:57:07) ±Chatot: Finchinator changed the topic to: Ban - 7 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclair, Metalgross, MewtwoHidden) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy)
(13:57:20) Young Jedi: so
(13:57:21) +Hannah: japanese guy
(13:57:23) Young Jedi: chinese guy
(13:57:24) Young Jedi: or jap
(13:57:25) Young Jedi: idk
(13:57:27) +Hannah: I'm going to have to say no
(13:57:31) Young Jedi: same
(13:57:36) +Hannah: Take heatran for example, which counters most common genesects, genesect can still break through heatran with water techno blast
(13:57:50) Young Jedi: yeah
(13:57:51) Young Jedi: lol
(13:57:55) Young Jedi: i say reject that
(13:58:00) Finchinator: rejecting
(13:58:07) Finchinator: chinese / japenese / korean (?!) letters
(13:58:22) Young Jedi: so
(13:58:25) Young Jedi: ZodiaK
(13:58:25) Finchinator: ZodiaK
(13:58:26) Young Jedi: next
(13:58:27) Finchinator: one of my
(13:58:27) Young Jedi: i really
(13:58:28) Young Jedi: really
(13:58:30) Young Jedi: disliked
(13:58:31) Young Jedi: this one
(13:58:36) Young Jedi: specifally he mentions things like
(13:58:37) Finchinator: let's break this down
(13:58:39) Young Jedi: skarmory
(13:58:41) Young Jedi: scizor
(13:58:43) Young Jedi: excadrill
(13:58:46) Young Jedi: as checks/counters
(13:58:48) Finchinator: Genesect's commonly seen viable checks and counters include Aegislash, Charizard-x/y, Excadrill with sand, Gyarados, Heatran, Keldeo, Scizor, Skarmory, Talonflame, Thundurus, and Zapdos, and to a less commonly seen extent Chandelure, Jellicent, Magnezone, Rotom-H, Shedinja, and Volcarona
(13:58:50) +Hannah: in fairness
(13:58:57) Young Jedi: those are just
(13:59:01) Finchinator: scizor, skarmory, thundurus, magnezone, shedninja
(13:59:01) Young Jedi: resisting stabs
(13:59:03) Young Jedi: and even exca
(13:59:06) Young Jedi: takes a ton
(13:59:18) Young Jedi: thundurus dies from espeed after 1 life orb hit and sand
(13:59:28) Young Jedi: skarmory scizor dies to fire move
(13:59:29) +Hannah: Excadrill can switch in the scarf(?) set's moves
(13:59:31) Young Jedi: which 99% carry
(13:59:35) Young Jedi: still taking
(13:59:36) Young Jedi: a lot
(13:59:39) Young Jedi: and risking
(13:59:40) +Hannah: Banded set requires prediction on Scizor/Skarm
(13:59:41) Young Jedi: fire move
(13:59:42) Young Jedi: or ice move
(13:59:47) Young Jedi: even then
(13:59:49) Young Jedi: uturn
(13:59:51) Young Jedi: and skarm/sciz
(13:59:55) Finchinator: these aren't
(13:59:55) Young Jedi: isnt hard to threaten
(13:59:57) Finchinator: checks and counters
(13:59:58) Finchinator: they are
(14:00:01) +Hannah: I'm pretty sure there was a better point to the checks/counters he listed
(14:00:01) Finchinator: situational pivots
(14:00:04) Young Jedi: he mentions shednija
(14:00:05) +Hannah: ^
(14:00:06) Young Jedi: which is just a joke
(14:00:06) +Hannah: err
(14:00:07) +Hannah: finch
(14:00:16) Finchinator: if he went out and said
(14:00:19) Young Jedi: talonflame isnt safe at all
(14:00:27) Young Jedi: considering rocks are up most of the time
(14:00:27) ±Dratini: Galaxy Utopia was muted by M​ahnmut for 1 hour! [Reason: roleplay elsewhere] [Channel: Tohjo Falls]
(14:00:28) Finchinator: gyarados, heatran, talonflame, zapdos, jellicent, rotom-h
(14:00:32) Finchinator: check counter it
(14:00:34) Finchinator: then fine
(14:00:35) Young Jedi: jelli and rotom h
(14:00:36) Finchinator: talon is shaky
(14:00:37) Finchinator: but
(14:00:37) Finchinator: ._.
(14:00:38) Young Jedi: dont exist in the meta
(14:00:39) +Hannah: Well
(14:00:41) Young Jedi: tbf
(14:00:43) +Hannah: Situational pivots
(14:00:51) Finchinator: he included a lot of situational pivots and he did this in the thread, too
(14:00:54) +Hannah: Are good points, but he needed to word and explain it
(14:00:57) Young Jedi: gyarados most of the time
(14:01:00) Young Jedi: doesnt have an item
(14:01:03) Young Jedi: and is weak to rocks
(14:01:07) +Hannah: Rotom-H (1.46 %)
(14:01:08) Young Jedi: so its limited to one siwtch
(14:01:13) Young Jedi: rotom is non existant
(14:01:16) +Hannah: Jellicent (1.74 %)
(14:01:18) Young Jedi: weak to rocks
(14:01:26) Young Jedi: and still takes a lot
(14:01:29) Young Jedi: from banded uturns
(14:01:32) Young Jedi: like i said
(14:01:35) Finchinator: i am fine w/
(14:01:36) Young Jedi: jelli doesnt really exist
(14:01:38) Finchinator: mentioning gyara
(14:01:43) Finchinator: but
(14:01:43) Finchinator: not
(14:01:44) Finchinator: shedninja
(14:01:47) Finchinator: or
(14:01:48) Finchinator: skarmory
(14:01:49) Finchinator: or scizor
(14:01:50) Young Jedi: he then
(14:01:51) Finchinator: ._.
(14:01:52) Young Jedi: goes on to say
(14:01:56) Young Jedi: that download is a drawback
(14:02:00) Young Jedi: which makes 0 sense
(14:02:07) Young Jedi: considering its either nuetral or a benefit
(14:02:10) Finchinator: download is either
(14:02:11) +Hannah: yup
(14:02:11) Young Jedi: no matter what comes out
(14:02:14) Finchinator: yea
(14:02:16) Young Jedi: all in all
(14:02:19) Young Jedi: i really dont like this one
(14:02:23) Finchinator: he makes a
(14:02:24) Young Jedi: and would say reject
(14:02:25) +Hannah: Mkay
(14:02:26) Finchinator: fine point on the speed
(14:02:32) Finchinator: otherwise, tho..
(14:02:35) Finchinator: reject.
(14:02:36) +Hannah: Rejecting
(14:02:37) +Hannah: ! ! !
(14:02:45) Young Jedi: Genesect also lacks versatility as a pokemon
(14:02:46) Young Jedi: also
(14:02:48) Young Jedi: bad point
(14:02:49) Young Jedi: but next
(14:03:04) Finchinator: shh
(14:03:11) Finchinator: georgia led
(14:03:12) Finchinator: lol
(14:03:14) Young Jedi: so
(14:03:16) Young Jedi: georgia
(14:03:17) Young Jedi: yea
(14:03:40) Young Jedi: its stats are mediocre especially its low speed compared to the rest of the threats in the OU tier.
(14:03:42) Young Jedi: ehhhh
(14:03:47) Finchinator: e_e
(14:03:53) Young Jedi: also
(14:03:57) Young Jedi: this is a special app
(14:03:58) Young Jedi: as well
(14:04:13) Finchinator: Besides all that I believe genesect's ability can be used to finally have a more effective way to deal with stall due to, again, its great movepool and great ability that allows to abuse the enemy's weaker side.
(14:04:22) Finchinator: how does that make it
(14:04:24) Finchinator: not broken
(14:04:30) Finchinator: it just adds on to its resourcefullness
(14:04:42) Finchinator: also
(14:04:46) Finchinator: to quote from a true god
(14:04:47) Finchinator: (14:03:58) MEEPS: fire moves beats genesect
(14:04:47) Finchinator: (14:04:02) MEEPS: ice moves beats rayquaza
(14:04:47) Finchinator: (14:04:04) MEEPS: RAYQUAZA OU???
(14:05:02) Young Jedi: yeah
(14:05:06) Young Jedi: i wouldnt be comfortable
(14:05:06) +Hannah: >besides its only one 4x weakness to fire type moves it can still be one shoted by powerful neutral moves or even to swords dance sucker punchers which are pretty common in OU after the gen 6 steel type changes.
(14:05:08) Young Jedi: accepting this one
(14:05:11) +Hannah: pretty sure that wasn't the point
(14:05:34) Finchinator: it wasn't
(14:05:35) Finchinator: but
(14:05:35) Finchinator: hue
(14:05:38) Finchinator: his point about
(14:05:40) Finchinator: neutral attacks
(14:05:41) Finchinator: doing a lot
(14:05:43) Finchinator: i.e: sucker
(14:05:43) Finchinator: is true
(14:05:50) Young Jedi: yes
(14:05:51) Finchinator: but there are still so many flaws and the way he starts the reasoning
(14:05:55) Finchinator: can arguably not be oerlooked
(14:05:58) Finchinator: while the upside is minimal, at bestr
(14:06:01) Finchinator: best*
(14:06:02) Young Jedi: i honestly thought he was arguing for ban
(14:06:07) Young Jedi: when he started the paragrapg
(14:06:10) Young Jedi: -g
(14:06:11) Young Jedi: +h
(14:06:42) +Hannah: Yeah
(14:06:45) +Hannah: Rejecting this
(14:06:46) Finchinator: same lol
(14:06:48) Young Jedi: same
(14:06:53) Finchinator: metta world peace
(14:06:56) Finchinator: made me want to
(14:06:58) Finchinator: ban uturn
(14:07:00) Finchinator: more than gene
(14:07:00) Finchinator: :_:
(14:07:30) Young Jedi: lemme read it agian
(14:07:31) Young Jedi: hold on
(14:07:38) Young Jedi: gdi
(14:07:41) Young Jedi: chrome is lagging
(14:08:03) Finchinator: Honestly I've went back and forth on my vote, but in the end I think banning Genesect is what's best for the tier. Genesect's greatest strength lies in its unrivaled ability to generate momentum for its team. It is able to come in, force a mon out, and spam U-Turn with impunity. On top of this, Genesect has a myriad of viable sets available (Scarf, CB, Exp. Belt, Rock Polish LO, Shift Gear, etc) and, against a well-played Genesect, it is difficult to determine the opposing set without losing a mon or at least taking heavy damage. Even after you know what set Genesect is running, it's not as if any of them are gimmicks. While Genesect does have "counters," nothing counters U-Turn, and Genesect can also easily could be running a coverage move to beat almost every mon. At the very least, Genesect's ability to spam U-Turn without consequence is extremely toxic for the metagame. It is mindless and eliminates a lot of prediction. In the hands of a skilled player, Genesect is simply too good for OU and deserves to be banned.
(14:08:22) Young Jedi: ok
(14:08:26) Young Jedi: he does make
(14:08:29) Young Jedi: some decent points
(14:08:31) Young Jedi: tho
(14:08:41) Young Jedi: he mentions is versatility
(14:08:50) Young Jedi: the momentum it builds
(14:08:52) Finchinator: i mean
(14:08:57) Finchinator: generate momentum
(14:08:58) Young Jedi: im shaky on accepting
(14:09:00) Finchinator: o_k
(14:09:02) Young Jedi: but
(14:09:05) Finchinator: >force a mon out and spam uturn
(14:09:10) Finchinator: is as good an argument as
(14:09:10) Young Jedi: like i said he does make
(14:09:12) Finchinator: skarmorty is a counter
(14:09:13) Young Jedi: some decent points
(14:09:15) Finchinator: on the other side
(14:09:16) Finchinator: imo
(14:09:37) Finchinator: against a well-played Genesect, it is difficult to determine the opposing set without losing a mon or at least taking heavy damage.
(14:09:38) Finchinator: solid point.
(14:09:45) Young Jedi: agreed
(14:09:51) Finchinator: While Genesect does have "counters," nothing counters U-Turn
(14:09:51) Young Jedi: thoughts hannah
(14:09:52) Finchinator: this irks me
(14:09:53) Finchinator: a lot.
(14:09:59) Young Jedi: yeah
(14:10:00) Young Jedi: it does
(14:10:03) Young Jedi: have some merit tho
(14:10:03) +Hannah: Sorry
(14:10:09) Young Jedi: because even if u send out the counter
(14:10:09) +Hannah: Tiredness is kicking in
(14:10:16) Young Jedi: you can still build momentum with uturn
(14:10:27) Finchinator: ah let's
(14:10:29) Finchinator: hurry this up then
(14:10:30) +Hannah: even if you sent out a counter with U-turn
(14:10:36) +Hannah: there's switching Genesect in
(14:10:39) Finchinator: yea
(14:10:45) Finchinator: i just don't see this as acceptable
(14:10:45) +Hannah: momentum can easily be grabbed by your opponent
(14:10:51) Finchinator: he has one solid mention of a reason why genesect is broken
(14:10:57) Finchinator: reject yn
(14:11:04) +Hannah: while Genesect is amazing at creating momentum, it's highly risky to actually grab it with him
(14:11:08) Young Jedi: mmm
(14:11:15) Young Jedi: idk man
(14:11:18) Young Jedi: im still on teh fence
(14:11:23) Young Jedi: because he does make good points
(14:11:33) Young Jedi: in his arguements
(14:11:41) +Hannah: he seems to want to ban U-turn more than Genesect
(14:11:49) Finchinator: y
(14:12:56) Young Jedi: so what do u say hannah
(14:13:06) Finchinator: i think she's
(14:13:08) Finchinator: leaning or sold on
(14:13:09) Finchinator: rejecting
(14:13:13) Finchinator: as am i
(14:13:20) Young Jedi: alright
(14:13:25) +Hannah: Mkay
(14:13:25) Young Jedi: so were rejecting
(14:13:26) Young Jedi: next
(14:13:29) +Hannah: Anyways
(14:13:29) +Hannah: Like
(14:13:30) Finchinator: asurii
(14:13:40) +Hannah: Let me just
(14:13:44) +Hannah: no on asurii
(14:13:49) +Hannah: yes on diz
(14:13:57) Young Jedi: I vote no ban on Genesect because Gene's set are pretty predictable. Most run CB or Scarf and sometimes you can get the random LO, Ebelt, or in very special cases Specs.
(14:14:00) +Hannah: no on xice
(14:14:01) Finchinator: no to asurii
(14:14:02) Young Jedi: that bothers me
(14:14:06) Finchinator: borderline on diz
(14:14:07) Young Jedi: no to asurii
(14:14:07) +Hannah: yes on WU
(14:14:08) Finchinator: no to xice
(14:14:10) Young Jedi: diz is eh
(14:14:15) Finchinator: i'll accept diz
(14:14:29) +Hannah: Want to discuss Sinclair?
(14:14:29) Young Jedi: i say no
(14:14:31) Young Jedi: on WU
(14:14:37) Young Jedi: for many of the same reasons
(14:14:40) Young Jedi: as ZodiaK
(14:14:44) Young Jedi: he lists things like lando t
(14:14:46) Young Jedi: thund i
(14:14:47) ±Chatot: Topic for this channel is: Ban - 7 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclair, Metalgross, MewtwoHidden) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy)
(14:14:47) ±Chatot: Topic was set by F​inchinator
(14:14:47) ±Chatot: Specify a topic to set one!
(14:14:47) Young Jedi: zard y
(14:14:51) Young Jedi: as things to come in
(14:14:52) Young Jedi: skarmory
(14:15:01) ±Chatot: Finchinator changed the topic to: Ban - 7 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclair, Metalgross, MewtwoHidden) / No Ban - 2 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy, Diz)
(14:15:04) Young Jedi: i see what hes saying with the rhelmet
(14:15:06) Young Jedi: but
(14:15:06) ±Chatot: Finchinator changed the topic to: Ban - 7 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclair, Metalgross, MewtwoHidden) / No Ban - 3 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy, Diz)
(14:15:10) Young Jedi: thats not safe
(14:15:11) Young Jedi: at all
(14:15:11) +Hannah: the difference for me
(14:15:19) Young Jedi: and also
(14:15:22) +Hannah: > but based on the damage output of its U-turn (or whatever move it uses first), it is easy to gauge which one you are facing.
(14:15:23) Young Jedi: >rhelmet lan t
(14:15:25) Young Jedi: lol.
(14:15:25) +Hannah: Important point
(14:15:32) Young Jedi: this is true
(14:15:34) Young Jedi: although
(14:15:34) +Hannah: >The Life Orb set is somewhat slow and lacks the wall breaking power to pierce popular cores like SkarmChance without the appropriate boost.
(14:15:37) Young Jedi: you still need that turn
(14:15:39) Young Jedi: and thats
(14:15:41) Young Jedi: completely off
(14:15:45) Young Jedi: the life orb set
(14:15:50) Young Jedi: is meant to wall break
(14:16:00) Young Jedi: so i dont agree with that
(14:16:05) +Hannah: >3 | Rocky Helmet | 4.48 %
(14:16:10) +Hannah: not sure why he mentioned that
(14:16:10) Finchinator: i'm going to abstain.
(14:16:13) Young Jedi: not worth a mention
(14:16:17) +Hannah: I've encountered a fair few on Ladder
(14:16:21) Young Jedi: well
(14:16:22) Finchinator: i've encountered 2
(14:16:27) Young Jedi: ive also encountered sash thund i
(14:16:28) Young Jedi: on ladder
(14:16:31) Young Jedi: u find a lot
(14:16:32) Young Jedi: lol
(14:16:38) Finchinator: i've encountered tanga berry jynx
(14:16:44) Finchinator: uturn counter
(14:16:45) Finchinator: tbh.
(14:16:46) Young Jedi: tbh i really wouldnt feel comfortable accepting this
(14:16:55) Young Jedi: a lot of it
(14:16:58) Young Jedi: seems minsinformed
(14:16:59) Finchinator: young jedi
(14:17:01) Young Jedi: or just flat out wrong
(14:17:05) Finchinator: i know the paragraph
(14:17:07) Finchinator: has its flaws
(14:17:17) Young Jedi: but i see
(14:17:18) Finchinator: but it's
(14:17:19) Young Jedi: a LOT
(14:17:19) Finchinator: WU
(14:17:20) Finchinator: i mean
(14:17:21) Young Jedi: of flaws
(14:17:21) Finchinator: idk
(14:17:26) Finchinator: i would reject it but
(14:17:28) Finchinator: WU was council
(14:17:30) Young Jedi: not to disrespect him but
(14:17:34) Finchinator: and partook in discussions without causing trouble
(14:17:34) Young Jedi: hes not very good at xy
(14:17:36) Finchinator: so i'm abstianin
(14:17:40) ±Dratini: figospaziale was muted by E​mail for 1 day! [Reason: youtube ad] [Channel: Tohjo Falls]
(14:17:52) Young Jedi: so his past watever he did
(14:17:56) Young Jedi: doesnt mean much
(14:18:07) +Hannah: (02:08:25) Young Jedi: hes not very good at xy
(14:18:07) Finchinator: honestly.
(14:18:08) +Hannah: lol
(14:18:11) +Hannah: I didnt know that was basis
(14:18:35) Young Jedi: i was responding
(14:18:37) Young Jedi: to finch
(14:18:54) Finchinator: we have
(14:18:57) Finchinator: one Accept
(14:18:59) Finchinator: one Reject
(14:19:00) Finchinator: one Abstain
(14:19:01) Young Jedi: (11:16:41) Finchinator: i know the paragraph
(14:19:01) Young Jedi: (11:16:43) Finchinator: has its flaws
(14:19:01) Young Jedi: (11:16:52) Young Jedi: but i see
(14:19:01) Young Jedi: (11:16:54) Finchinator: but it's
(14:19:02) Young Jedi: (11:16:55) Young Jedi: a LOT
(14:19:02) Young Jedi: (11:16:55) Finchinator: WU
(14:19:08) Young Jedi: i was responding to that
(14:19:15) Young Jedi: but thats besides the point
(14:19:15) Finchinator: (14:17:28) Finchinator: WU was council
(14:19:16) Finchinator: (14:17:30) Young Jedi: not to disrespect him but
(14:19:16) Finchinator: (14:17:34) Finchinator: and partook in discussions without causing trouble
(14:19:42) Young Jedi: the thing is most of this paragraph
(14:19:43) +Hannah: for me WU's paragraph is
(14:19:43) +Hannah: accept
(14:19:44) Young Jedi: like i said
(14:19:44) +Hannah: >:o
(14:19:51) Young Jedi: is just flat out wrong and misinformed
(14:20:03) Young Jedi: and a couple moot points
(14:20:31) Young Jedi: Genesect keeps some of them in check, while some of those can keep Genesect in check. You could argue that this is an instance of broken checking broken, but I feel that's not a valid excuse to ban many of OU's threats.
(14:20:35) Young Jedi: im not sure i agree with this either
(14:21:16) Young Jedi: fairly solid counter in Charizard-X
(14:21:25) Young Jedi: zard x can only "counter" if rocks are up
(14:21:26) Finchinator: espeed + good luck switching in
(14:21:27) tyrenitr: User ZoroDark has logged in
(14:21:33) Young Jedi: arent*
(14:21:34) Finchinator: aren't*
(14:21:52) Young Jedi: Keldeo, Mega Mawile, and Mega Venusaur check it quite well,
(14:21:53) Young Jedi: keldeo yes
(14:21:56) Young Jedi: mawile venusaur
(14:21:57) Young Jedi: no.
(14:22:04) Finchinator: not maw
(14:22:07) Finchinator: eh venu, situational
(14:22:09) Finchinator: keld, ok
(14:22:21) Young Jedi: venusaur is very situational depends on either set
(14:22:25) Young Jedi: and since gene can run so many
(14:22:28) Young Jedi: its not reliable
(14:22:29) Young Jedi: imo
(14:22:36) Finchinator: how about
(14:22:52) Finchinator: hm
(14:24:10) Young Jedi: hannah
(14:24:15) Young Jedi: give me some reasons
(14:24:18) Young Jedi: as to why you accept
(14:24:21) Young Jedi: since ive said my share
(14:26:38) Young Jedi: u there Hannah?
(14:26:58) Finchinator: she said she was tired
(14:27:18) Finchinator: so i guess
(14:27:20) Finchinator: i will
(14:27:29) Finchinator: play devil's advocate with you
(14:27:34) Finchinator: one sec.
(14:28:01) Finchinator: My reasoning for Genesect my vote is on the basis that it lacks the exceptionality in a metagame rife with powerful threats to warrant a ban. Many other Pokémon, such as Thundurus-I, Landorus-I, Charizard-X/Y, and even Aegislash, have as few or fewer checks and counters.
(14:28:14) Finchinator: disagree with this, but I can see how it can be true for one of the pokemon listed - none of the others, tho
(14:28:34) Finchinator: Genesect keeps some of them in check, while some of those can keep Genesect in check. You could argue that this is an instance of broken checking broken, but I feel that's not a valid excuse to ban many of OU's threats.
(14:28:44) Finchinator: Just piling onto an arguably broken argument.
(14:28:52) Finchinator: It can run multiple sets, but based on the damage output of its U-turn (or whatever move it uses first), it is easy to gauge which one you are facing.
(14:29:06) Finchinator: sometimes true, especially w/ CB and ofc any LO set w/ uturn
(14:29:21) Finchinator: U-turn spam can be punished by Rocky Helmet users like Skarmory and Landorus-T, and Choice sets rely on prediction to score KOs.
(14:29:39) Finchinator: rocky helmet doesn't do anything if you switch in on ice beam or flamethrower!!!
(14:29:45) Finchinator: also, prediction is a two way streety
(14:29:47) Finchinator: street*
(14:29:55) Finchinator: The Life Orb set is somewhat slow and lacks the wall breaking power to pierce popular cores like SkarmChance without the appropriate boost. Furthermore, that boost is completely manipulable by the opponent.
(14:30:16) Finchinator: if it's defensive venu + standard chansey
(14:30:24) Finchinator: it does need rocks to "break" the core if they're both at full
(14:30:25) Finchinator: but
(14:30:30) Finchinator: that's a lot of things that
(14:30:33) Finchinator: need to go the cores way
(14:30:37) Finchinator: i.e: both at full
(14:30:38) Finchinator: so
(14:30:41) Young Jedi: no lefties
(14:30:43) Finchinator: semi-disagreeing w/ this
(14:30:45) Young Jedi: makes rocks hurt more
(14:30:46) Finchinator: also no lefties, yea
(14:30:46) Young Jedi: too
(14:30:57) Finchinator: It has a solid counter in Heatran and fairly solid counter in Charizard-X, not to mention lower tier fire types that work well to check or counter it. Keldeo, Mega Mawile, and Mega Venusaur check it quite well, and they are rather popular.
(14:31:01) Finchinator: heatran coiunters
(14:31:04) Finchinator: zard-x is a shaky check imo.
(14:31:11) Finchinator: fire types in general is an /ok/ mention
(14:31:18) Finchinator: fine part there
(14:31:20) Finchinator: keldeo ok
(14:31:21) Finchinator: mega venu eh
(14:31:30) Finchinator: mawile is shaky at best, but typically not noteworthy imo
(14:31:37) Finchinator: hip damage to hazards and/or switching in on "safe" attacks can kill it or put it in range of weak priority. I do not believe its impact in the metagame is at all exceptional, and it should be kept. (I've also made other points in suspect thread which I may have omitted in this summary.)
(14:31:49) Finchinator: chip damage goes back to the point on helmet
(14:32:01) Finchinator: and hazards is possibly on both sides, so there's that
(14:32:08) Finchinator: so yea
(14:32:13) Finchinator: drawing dead with support for WU
(14:32:15) Finchinator: rip.
(14:32:31) Young Jedi: so reject accept
(14:32:43) Finchinator: honestly
(14:32:49) Finchinator: there are
(14:32:54) Finchinator: ~two good points i just pointed out
(14:32:55) Finchinator: there are
(14:33:01) Finchinator: ~six poor points i just pointed out
(14:33:10) Finchinator: we've rejecrted people like
(14:33:12) Finchinator: zamrock
(14:33:18) Finchinator: and hiphiphooray
(14:33:26) Finchinator: so I guess
(14:33:27) Finchinator: reject.
(14:33:42) Young Jedi: so
(14:33:46) Young Jedi: xice reject
(14:33:49) Young Jedi: diz accept?
(14:33:54) Young Jedi: and we're done'
(14:33:56) Finchinator: yes.
(14:33:57) ±Chatot: Topic for this channel is: Ban - 7 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclair, Metalgross, MewtwoHidden) / No Ban - 3 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy, Diz)
(14:33:57) ±Chatot: Topic was set by F​inchinator
(14:33:58) ±Chatot: Specify a topic to set one!
(14:33:58) Young Jedi: correct?
(14:33:59) Young Jedi: ok
(14:34:02) Finchinator: Ban - 7 (Valentine, Meeps, Luck>Skill, Finch, Sinclair, Metalgross, MewtwoHidden) / No Ban - 3 (MUMU, Pokemoniseasy, Diz)
(14:34:03) Young Jedi: tally up the votes
(14:34:03) Finchinator: we're done.
(14:35:24) Finchinator: http://pokemon-online.eu/threads/genesect-test-ban-vote-ladder-reset.27943/#post-395274
(14:36:37) Young Jedi: good discussion
(14:36:41) Young Jedi: someone save logs
(14:36:42) Young Jedi: etc
(14:37:09) Finchinator: will do.