[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Whoa Xion with the surprise bid.
Xionara: I'm here for Hnot.
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) What? You're helping someone bid twice?
Xionara: i'm not participating in this auction, so yes.
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) But why? Then the rest of us have less of a chance.
[helping!]: ("Volohir" volohirosirit@gmail.com) what auction is this?
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Charity auction of gowns/jewelry.
Xionara: because he's a friend and he asked me to
Xionara: anyone else can do the same for any of their friends
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Yes, but it defeats the spirit of the rule.
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Which is meant to allow others to have a chance.
[helping!]: (furiousjimmy) I have a feeling there's numerous alts here
Xionara: I don't really agree because I know for a fact I'm not the only one who does these things
[helping!]: (furiousjimmy) I've seen people ive never heard of bidding atrocious amounts of coin
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) So because everyone else does it, it's okay?
Xionara: others help get alterations on a list and such
Xionara: N explain to me how it can acutally legitimately be enforced
[helping!]: (furiousjimmy) I dont really care either way
Xionara: you can't seriously believe that a good number of people arent helping each other or grabbing alts to bid once their main gets something
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) It could be if they coded for it. But right now it's a matter of honor.
Xionara: thats why it doesn't bother me
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Of course people do it. It's still wrong.
Xionara: if you think it makes me dishonorable so be it
Xionara: i help my friends
Xionara: he asked first
Xionara: that it
Xionara: simple as that for me
Xionara: if anyone of you had asked
Xionara: i would have done it for you too
Xionara: i mean shit
Xionara: poeple have loaned me money to bid on stuff beofre
Xionara: that i can't actually afford
Xionara: one could say that isn't fair either
Xionara: and on and on it goes
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Loaning is perfectly fine by me.
Xionara: aha! but i could argue, its not fair because i can't actually afford it
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Nah, your friends are allowed to do with their money as they please.
Xionara: its just not worth it, i do for my circle of friends and myself and others do the same
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) But the one per account rule is clearly in place to limit people from sweeping everything.
Xionara: I'm not sure where you're going with that because I know when i watch these auctions the same people do sweep everything
Xionara: if they want to, they ask friends, give them money, have multiple alts etc etc
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Sure, but that doesn't make it okay.
Xionara: people do what they want.. the one per account rule is one per account, but if your buddy is willing to buy something for you
Xionara: or you have multiple accounts
Xionara: then its not just one per account and it does happen every action
Xionara: people also buy money from gold sellers in the midle of an auction too
Xionara: also not fair
Xionara: im not going to argue it further i am just simply saying that there's not really a way to limit it to one per account for everyone so i just do what i can to help out my friends in an environment that is not fair to begin with
Xionara: and i dont feel its dishonorable
Xionara: hmm, should've said one per person here i think. anyway it doesn't matter.
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) It matters to me. I'm waiting and hoping to get an item.
Xionara: well good luck! im sure you'll win it if you have a decent amount of coin
Xionara: unless that goldfarming dude decides he wants it
Xionara: think his name is gary
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Larry, I hear.
Xionara: man, I was close
Xionara: they rhyme XD
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Well, didn't bring enough.
Xionara: aww :(
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) And apparently you can't move during the auction to get more.
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Missed out on the entire rest of the auction waiting for that item.
Xionara: yeah i hate that, thats what happened to me at HE
[helping!]: (furiousjimmy) not that you would have made it back in time though, the countdown was going fast as hell
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) I had Saragos waiting with more.
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) You can usually move and get out.
[helping!]: (furiousjimmy) ahh
[helping!]: (furiousjimmy) thats crappy then
[helping!]: (furiousjimmy) and yeah like all the damn commands are locked out
[helping!]: (furiousjimmy) super annoying
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Turns out I could have gone south but not southeast.
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Oh well, guess it'll get funneled toward the non-fluff auction.
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Super annoyed that they put my item last.
Xionara: yay non-fluff auction!
Xionara: when is that!
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Don't know. They said there would be one for kronars though.
Xionara: I don't really have kronars to bid, usually stuff goes over 1k easily, but they might have something.
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Man, the worst part is that it was some nobody alt.
Xionara: Yeah... see.....
Xionara: :S
[helping!]: ("Saragos" morchaint1) One person doing it doesn't make it right.  If I condone people I like doing something, I don't have any room to complain when people I don't know do the same thing against me.
Xionara: It doesn't bother me. People just do what they do when it's in their best interests. There's not really any way to control it.
Xionara: I gave up on that stuff awhile ago when I realized one guy has 5 alts that he takes to every auction
Xionara: and another friend had like. 3 people ready to bid on stuff fo rher
[helping!]: ("Saragos" morchaint1) So, basically, if they're being an asshole, it's ok for me to be one too?  I don't buy that.  I choose to try not to be an asshole.
Xionara: I'm not sure I'd say that they are being an asshole
Xionara: they are trying to increase their chances in any way they can
[helping!]: ("Saragos" morchaint1) If you don't see a problem with that, I suppose there's nothing I can say to help you.
Xionara: I'm not sure why you have such a problem with it
Xionara: or N
Xionara: it's just how things are in this game, if you want to hate on me for helping out a friend fine, but I don't view it the way that you two do, I'm not trying to screw anyone else over, I simply help my friends when they ask for it, as others help or move their alts in and out etc
Xionara: if anyone in this chat had asked me to stand in and bid for them i would've done it
Xionara: *shrug*
[helping!]: ("Saragos" morchaint1) Let me try to cut to the core as much as I can.    I think play-buying and domination of auctions by a few people is bad for the game.  This game is fragile enough already, being such a niche hobby, that it doesn't need more to push against it. And I refuse to do something knowingly that I criticize in others.
Xionara: Well, heres the thing
Xionara: I can't criticize people for taking advantage of whatever they can when things like DR Sales are knowingly going on and its not shut down. But hte thing is there is no way to control it
[helping!]: ("Saragos" morchaint1) And I don't think refusing to do it yourself means you're just "a chump" or "not playing the game".  Making a principled stand matters.  Participating in it leads others to believe that they should do the thing as well.  It's textbook Tragedy of the Commons.
Xionara: So you think it's a good idea to limit yourself for ideals when in reality what you're doing is reducing your ability to acquire said items or alterations or wahtever versus the general population?
Xionara: I mean, we're not talking about murder here
[helping!]: ("Volohir" volohirosirit@gmail.com) Man, why do I get so instinctively prickly when Jowie or Vowbrun gweths they're in the gem shop? heh
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Yeah I know how you feel Volo. I hate it when they do that!
Xionara: They're in your territory!
[helping!]: ("Saragos" morchaint1) If you knew that you would never be caught, would you burglarize your neighbor's house?  If the police can't control it, you're just reducing your ability to acquire items versus the general population.
Xionara: I don't think that's the same thing here Saragos
[helping!]: ("Volohir" volohirosirit@gmail.com) Well, in my mind all of Therenn/Zoluren/Ilithi is MY territory, but I can't practically go around roughing up other traders over it. =(
Xionara: lol volo
Xionara: I would love to see you do that
[helping!]: ("Volohir" volohirosirit@gmail.com) Because I totally trained Duto up to squeeze out the competition, literally.
Xionara: it would be hilarious
[helping!]: ("Volohir" volohirosirit@gmail.com) I did it all the time back in the day in Ilithi
[helping!]: ("Saragos" morchaint1) I think it's the exact same thing.  I choose not to do certain things not because I'll get caught, but because I either think of them as wrong or because I think it makes the world I live in a worse place to be in.  The fact that other people do it is literally meaningless to me.  It's a non-argument.
[helping!]: ("Volohir" volohirosirit@gmail.com) I legit cornered the market in Ilithi and was the only permanent resident Trader and so all these chumps'd come down on contracts thinking they'd help the poor traderless folk of Ilithi and I'd show up and show 'em my brass knuckles.
[helping!]: ("Volohir" volohirosirit@gmail.com) heh
[helping!]: ("Navesi" navesidr) Ha, did you really?
[helping!]: ("Saragos" morchaint1) Logging out for a bit.  I'll be back.\
[helping!]: ("Volohir" volohirosirit@gmail.com) I can't believe you don't remember, but yes. I'd show up and give them a hard time about not talking to me first before trying to offer their services. I was the local rep.
Xionara: I'm just going to drop it, we don't see eye to eye on it