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Aug 23rd, 2016
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  1. X-Original-To: grumman@grumman.net
  2. Delivered-To: grumman@grumman.net
  3. Subject: Bounce action notification
  4. From: mailman@mailman.xmission.com
  5. To: grumman-gang-owner@mailman.xmission.com
  6. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:57:13 -0600
  7. X-BeenThere: grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com
  8. List-Id: <grumman-gang.mailman.xmission.com>
  9. Sender: "Grumman-gang" <mailman-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>
  10. X-Seen-by: procmail
  11. X-Comment: Trusted mailing list
  12.  
  13. This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
  14.  
  15. List: Grumman-gang
  16. Member: Ellismcgaughy@gmail.com
  17. Action: Subscription disabled.
  18. Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.
  19.  
  20.  
  21.  
  22. The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
  23.  
  24. Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
  25. mailman@mailman.xmission.com.
  26.  
  27. Received: from Debian-exim by mailman.xmission.com with local (Exim 4.82)
  28. id 1bc0jv-0007b5-Kp
  29. for grumman-gang-bounces@mailman.xmission.com; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:42:55 -0600
  30. X-Failed-Recipients: Rjs98705@gmail.com,
  31. ksherlock@gmail.com,
  32. wmbellii@gmail.com,
  33. pdflesher@gmail.com,
  34. peachs416@gmail.com,
  35. speedbandit5@gmail.com,
  36. roemer.erik@gmail.com,
  37. winarnie1@gmail.com,
  38. tim.jurik@gmail.com,
  39. randyvan6043@gmail.com,
  40. nussgolf846@gmail.com,
  41. Masterairscrew@gmail.com,
  42. pkuhns@gmail.com,
  43. winterhill.stan@gmail.com,
  44. tmanegold@gmail.com,
  45. garylbarnett1@gmail.com,
  46. wstallknecht@gmail.com,
  47. aedmonson@gmail.com,
  48. bobdennay@gmail.com,
  49. bkspero@gmail.com,
  50. arnoldlawyers@gmail.com,
  51. captmeroberts@gmail.com,
  52. mark@blackswanassoc.com,
  53. Ed@advdia.com,
  54. skiss@gazos.com,
  55. sobrien11985@msn.com,
  56. dante61@msn.com,
  57. gforcefarms@msn.com,
  58. bmoore@quandelconsultants.com,
  59. aa1@aeromation.com,
  60. wmartin@madriver.com,
  61. pboynton@madriver.com,
  62. ccbru@2001salesandservice.com,
  63. ralph@kulling.com,
  64. brettmathieson@gmail.com,
  65. lindlylj@gmail.com,
  66. ctgildersleeves@gmail.com,
  67. Cfianpron@gmail.com,
  68. bradyjk@gmail.com,
  69. dabyers@gmail.com,
  70. lou.alvarez@gmail.com,
  71. lougregoire@gmail.com,
  72. sgatiger@gmail.com,
  73. travis.kantz@gmail.com,
  74. kruck88@gmail.com,
  75. GrummanTreeTreeO@gmail.com,
  76. felix1@gmail.com,
  77. ejlampe@gmail.com,
  78. Ellismcgaughy@gmail.com,
  79. figorico@gmail.com
  80. X-Failed-Recipients: sunrise6500@yahoo.com,
  81. fscottsanders@yahoo.com,
  82. gwilliams1958@yahoo.com,
  83. jack_patricia@yahoo.com,
  84. mwdement@yahoo.com,
  85. mstan8648@yahoo.com,
  86. wallmm@yahoo.com,
  87. dondrogers@yahoo.com,
  88. sg1159allred@yahoo.com,
  89. robhaack@yahoo.com,
  90. amr4029@yahoo.com,
  91. craigcurtis8@yahoo.com,
  92. t6p51@yahoo.com,
  93. scafoncelli@yahoo.com,
  94. excel27909@yahoo.com,
  95. VIC54210@yahoo.com,
  96. Xcfire2000@yahoo.com,
  97. terryt727@yahoo.com,
  98. aeromomentum@yahoo.com,
  99. kyrarune@yahoo.com,
  100. bjsm1th@yahoo.com,
  101. mwoodyatt@yahoo.com,
  102. N45343@yahoo.com,
  103. richardhayden1@yahoo.com,
  104. jamesgrieco@yahoo.com,
  105. siamsa28@yahoo.com,
  106. mikeinescondido@yahoo.com,
  107. kdmpete@yahoo.com,
  108. flymlb@yahoo.com,
  109. ohziff@yahoo.com,
  110. jcraddock1@yahoo.com,
  111. briboylan@yahoo.com,
  112. Jhshelton1@yahoo.com,
  113. Michaelpdonoghue@yahoo.com
  114. Auto-Submitted: auto-replied
  115. From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@mailman.xmission.com>
  116. To: grumman-gang-bounces@mailman.xmission.com
  117. Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
  118. Message-Id: <E1bc0jv-0007b5-Kp@mailman.xmission.com>
  119. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:42:55 -0600
  120.  
  121. This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
  122.  
  123. A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
  124. recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
  125.  
  126. Rjs98705@gmail.com
  127. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<Rjs98705@gmail.com>:
  128. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  129. retry timeout exceeded
  130. ksherlock@gmail.com
  131. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<ksherlock@gmail.com>:
  132. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  133. retry timeout exceeded
  134. wmbellii@gmail.com
  135. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<wmbellii@gmail.com>:
  136. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  137. retry timeout exceeded
  138. pdflesher@gmail.com
  139. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<pdflesher@gmail.com>:
  140. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  141. retry timeout exceeded
  142. peachs416@gmail.com
  143. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<peachs416@gmail.com>:
  144. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  145. retry timeout exceeded
  146. speedbandit5@gmail.com
  147. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<speedbandit5@gmail.com>:
  148. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  149. retry timeout exceeded
  150. roemer.erik@gmail.com
  151. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<roemer.erik@gmail.com>:
  152. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  153. retry timeout exceeded
  154. winarnie1@gmail.com
  155. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<winarnie1@gmail.com>:
  156. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  157. retry timeout exceeded
  158. tim.jurik@gmail.com
  159. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<tim.jurik@gmail.com>:
  160. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  161. retry timeout exceeded
  162. randyvan6043@gmail.com
  163. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<randyvan6043@gmail.com>:
  164. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  165. retry timeout exceeded
  166. nussgolf846@gmail.com
  167. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<nussgolf846@gmail.com>:
  168. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  169. retry timeout exceeded
  170. Masterairscrew@gmail.com
  171. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<Masterairscrew@gmail.com>:
  172. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  173. retry timeout exceeded
  174. pkuhns@gmail.com
  175. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<pkuhns@gmail.com>:
  176. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  177. retry timeout exceeded
  178. winterhill.stan@gmail.com
  179. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<winterhill.stan@gmail.com>:
  180. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  181. retry timeout exceeded
  182. tmanegold@gmail.com
  183. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<tmanegold@gmail.com>:
  184. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  185. retry timeout exceeded
  186. garylbarnett1@gmail.com
  187. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<garylbarnett1@gmail.com>:
  188. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  189. retry timeout exceeded
  190. wstallknecht@gmail.com
  191. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<wstallknecht@gmail.com>:
  192. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  193. retry timeout exceeded
  194. aedmonson@gmail.com
  195. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<aedmonson@gmail.com>:
  196. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  197. retry timeout exceeded
  198. bobdennay@gmail.com
  199. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<bobdennay@gmail.com>:
  200. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  201. retry timeout exceeded
  202. bkspero@gmail.com
  203. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<bkspero@gmail.com>:
  204. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  205. retry timeout exceeded
  206. arnoldlawyers@gmail.com
  207. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<arnoldlawyers@gmail.com>:
  208. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  209. retry timeout exceeded
  210. captmeroberts@gmail.com
  211. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<captmeroberts@gmail.com>:
  212. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  213. retry timeout exceeded
  214. mark@blackswanassoc.com
  215. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<mark@blackswanassoc.com>:
  216. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  217. retry timeout exceeded
  218. Ed@advdia.com
  219. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<Ed@advdia.com>:
  220. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  221. retry timeout exceeded
  222. skiss@gazos.com
  223. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<skiss@gazos.com>:
  224. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  225. retry timeout exceeded
  226. sobrien11985@msn.com
  227. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<sobrien11985@msn.com>:
  228. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  229. retry timeout exceeded
  230. dante61@msn.com
  231. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<dante61@msn.com>:
  232. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  233. retry timeout exceeded
  234. gforcefarms@msn.com
  235. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<gforcefarms@msn.com>:
  236. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  237. retry timeout exceeded
  238. bmoore@quandelconsultants.com
  239. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<bmoore@quandelconsultants.com>:
  240. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  241. retry timeout exceeded
  242. aa1@aeromation.com
  243. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<aa1@aeromation.com>:
  244. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  245. retry timeout exceeded
  246. wmartin@madriver.com
  247. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<wmartin@madriver.com>:
  248. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  249. retry timeout exceeded
  250. pboynton@madriver.com
  251. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<pboynton@madriver.com>:
  252. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  253. retry timeout exceeded
  254. ccbru@2001salesandservice.com
  255. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<ccbru@2001salesandservice.com>:
  256. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  257. retry timeout exceeded
  258. ralph@kulling.com
  259. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<ralph@kulling.com>:
  260. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  261. retry timeout exceeded
  262. brettmathieson@gmail.com
  263. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<brettmathieson@gmail.com>:
  264. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  265. retry timeout exceeded
  266. lindlylj@gmail.com
  267. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<lindlylj@gmail.com>:
  268. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  269. retry timeout exceeded
  270. ctgildersleeves@gmail.com
  271. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<ctgildersleeves@gmail.com>:
  272. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  273. retry timeout exceeded
  274. Cfianpron@gmail.com
  275. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<Cfianpron@gmail.com>:
  276. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  277. retry timeout exceeded
  278. bradyjk@gmail.com
  279. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<bradyjk@gmail.com>:
  280. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  281. retry timeout exceeded
  282. dabyers@gmail.com
  283. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<dabyers@gmail.com>:
  284. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  285. retry timeout exceeded
  286. lou.alvarez@gmail.com
  287. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<lou.alvarez@gmail.com>:
  288. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  289. retry timeout exceeded
  290. lougregoire@gmail.com
  291. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<lougregoire@gmail.com>:
  292. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  293. retry timeout exceeded
  294. sgatiger@gmail.com
  295. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<sgatiger@gmail.com>:
  296. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  297. retry timeout exceeded
  298. travis.kantz@gmail.com
  299. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<travis.kantz@gmail.com>:
  300. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  301. retry timeout exceeded
  302. kruck88@gmail.com
  303. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<kruck88@gmail.com>:
  304. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  305. retry timeout exceeded
  306. GrummanTreeTreeO@gmail.com
  307. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<GrummanTreeTreeO@gmail.com>:
  308. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  309. retry timeout exceeded
  310. felix1@gmail.com
  311. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<felix1@gmail.com>:
  312. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  313. retry timeout exceeded
  314. ejlampe@gmail.com
  315. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<ejlampe@gmail.com>:
  316. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  317. retry timeout exceeded
  318. Ellismcgaughy@gmail.com
  319. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<Ellismcgaughy@gmail.com>:
  320. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  321. retry timeout exceeded
  322. figorico@gmail.com
  323. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<figorico@gmail.com>:
  324. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  325. retry timeout exceeded
  326. sunrise6500@yahoo.com
  327. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<sunrise6500@yahoo.com>:
  328. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  329. retry timeout exceeded
  330. fscottsanders@yahoo.com
  331. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<fscottsanders@yahoo.com>:
  332. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  333. retry timeout exceeded
  334. gwilliams1958@yahoo.com
  335. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<gwilliams1958@yahoo.com>:
  336. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  337. retry timeout exceeded
  338. jack_patricia@yahoo.com
  339. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<jack_patricia@yahoo.com>:
  340. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  341. retry timeout exceeded
  342. mwdement@yahoo.com
  343. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<mwdement@yahoo.com>:
  344. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  345. retry timeout exceeded
  346. mstan8648@yahoo.com
  347. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<mstan8648@yahoo.com>:
  348. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  349. retry timeout exceeded
  350. wallmm@yahoo.com
  351. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<wallmm@yahoo.com>:
  352. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  353. retry timeout exceeded
  354. dondrogers@yahoo.com
  355. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<dondrogers@yahoo.com>:
  356. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  357. retry timeout exceeded
  358. sg1159allred@yahoo.com
  359. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<sg1159allred@yahoo.com>:
  360. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  361. retry timeout exceeded
  362. robhaack@yahoo.com
  363. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<robhaack@yahoo.com>:
  364. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  365. retry timeout exceeded
  366. amr4029@yahoo.com
  367. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<amr4029@yahoo.com>:
  368. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  369. retry timeout exceeded
  370. craigcurtis8@yahoo.com
  371. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<craigcurtis8@yahoo.com>:
  372. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  373. retry timeout exceeded
  374. t6p51@yahoo.com
  375. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<t6p51@yahoo.com>:
  376. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  377. retry timeout exceeded
  378. scafoncelli@yahoo.com
  379. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<scafoncelli@yahoo.com>:
  380. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  381. retry timeout exceeded
  382. excel27909@yahoo.com
  383. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<excel27909@yahoo.com>:
  384. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  385. retry timeout exceeded
  386. VIC54210@yahoo.com
  387. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<VIC54210@yahoo.com>:
  388. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  389. retry timeout exceeded
  390. Xcfire2000@yahoo.com
  391. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<Xcfire2000@yahoo.com>:
  392. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  393. retry timeout exceeded
  394. terryt727@yahoo.com
  395. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<terryt727@yahoo.com>:
  396. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  397. retry timeout exceeded
  398. aeromomentum@yahoo.com
  399. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<aeromomentum@yahoo.com>:
  400. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  401. retry timeout exceeded
  402. kyrarune@yahoo.com
  403. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<kyrarune@yahoo.com>:
  404. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  405. retry timeout exceeded
  406. bjsm1th@yahoo.com
  407. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<bjsm1th@yahoo.com>:
  408. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  409. retry timeout exceeded
  410. mwoodyatt@yahoo.com
  411. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<mwoodyatt@yahoo.com>:
  412. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  413. retry timeout exceeded
  414. N45343@yahoo.com
  415. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<N45343@yahoo.com>:
  416. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  417. retry timeout exceeded
  418. richardhayden1@yahoo.com
  419. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<richardhayden1@yahoo.com>:
  420. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  421. retry timeout exceeded
  422. jamesgrieco@yahoo.com
  423. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<jamesgrieco@yahoo.com>:
  424. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  425. retry timeout exceeded
  426. siamsa28@yahoo.com
  427. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<siamsa28@yahoo.com>:
  428. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  429. retry timeout exceeded
  430. mikeinescondido@yahoo.com
  431. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<mikeinescondido@yahoo.com>:
  432. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  433. retry timeout exceeded
  434. kdmpete@yahoo.com
  435. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<kdmpete@yahoo.com>:
  436. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  437. retry timeout exceeded
  438. flymlb@yahoo.com
  439. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<flymlb@yahoo.com>:
  440. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  441. retry timeout exceeded
  442. ohziff@yahoo.com
  443. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<ohziff@yahoo.com>:
  444. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  445. retry timeout exceeded
  446. jcraddock1@yahoo.com
  447. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<jcraddock1@yahoo.com>:
  448. host localout.xmission.com [166.70.13.231]: 452 too many recipients:
  449. retry timeout exceeded
  450. briboylan@yahoo.com
  451. SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<briboylan@yahoo.com>:
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  470. id 1bc0js-0007Zt-8B; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:42:52 -0600
  471. From: grumman-gang-request@mailman.xmission.com
  472. Subject: Grumman-gang Digest, Vol 13, Issue 367
  473. To: grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com
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  475. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:42:50 -0600
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  503.  
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  505. than "Re: Contents of Grumman-gang digest..."
  506.  
  507.  
  508. List Archive: <http://grumman.net/archive/>
  509.  
  510. Today's Topics:
  511.  
  512. 1. Re: Starter problem (Paul Tollini)
  513. 2. Re: Fuel flows (ulccviking@googlemail.com)
  514. 3. Re: Fuel flows (Les Staples)
  515. 4. RE: Stall warning (Ken Blackman)
  516. 5. Fwd: Re: E-AB Safety (linn Walters)
  517. 6. Re: Fuel flows (Gary L Vogt)
  518. 7. Re: Starter problem (FLYaDIVE)
  519. 8. Fuel flow Mark Conner (Alan Lindsay)
  520. 9. Re: Starter problem (Buddy Cox)
  521. 10. Re: AG5B alternator light (Jared Brank)
  522. 11. Re: Starter problem (John Horton)
  523.  
  524.  
  525. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  526.  
  527. Message: 1
  528. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:00:45 -0400
  529. From: Paul Tollini <ptollini@me.com>
  530. To: Grumman Gang <grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com>
  531. Subject: Re: Starter problem
  532. Message-ID: <94905014-7BD7-45CA-B111-9B5CEA421091@me.com>
  533. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  534.  
  535. On Aug 22, 2016, at 11:42 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
  536.  
  537. "1 - A bad connection - Corrosion - You did check for corrosion on the
  538. battery when you charged it didn't you?
  539. 2 - A bad connection - On the Master and/or Starter Relay - Corrosion
  540. again...
  541. NOTE: You can not inspect for a bad connection by LQQKing at it. You
  542. MUST, remove the connection, clean the connection and replace the Star Lock
  543. Washers. It does not take much of a resistance to make a Starter fail.
  544. 3 - A bad connection - At the rear of the Starter Motor."
  545.  
  546. Actually the best way that I have found to test for bad connections is with a
  547. multimeter. Use long test leads with one clipped on the battery side of the
  548. starter contractor and the other on the battery positive terminal. Measure the
  549. DC voltage drop while trying to crank. You could measure at the starter as
  550. well, but that's a bit trickier, as you don't want to power the starter motor
  551. through your test leads. You can measure the voltage drop on the ground path
  552. the same way, and there is no problem clipping your test lead to the starter
  553. housing and the negative battery terminal.
  554.  
  555.  
  556.  
  557.  
  558. ------------------------------
  559.  
  560. Message: 2
  561. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 20:02:14 +0200
  562. From: ulccviking@googlemail.com
  563. To: Mark Conner <mconner7@verizon.net>
  564. Cc: grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com
  565. Subject: Re: Fuel flows
  566. Message-ID: <5DCB0946-71F2-4E25-9CB6-AF1B2F4EB3D0@googlemail.com>
  567. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  568.  
  569. Mark,
  570. Your thought process make sense to me. ;-)
  571. Moving up is a huge step up moneywise unfortunately.
  572.  
  573. I have a 1990 AG5B (mt-prop, rest is standard) and I see 13 - 14 gal fuel flow
  574. wide open too.
  575. Timm
  576.  
  577.  
  578.  
  579.  
  580.  
  581.  
  582. ------------------------------
  583.  
  584. Message: 3
  585. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:29:17 -0600
  586. From: Les Staples <les@flytx1.com>
  587. To: ulccviking@googlemail.com
  588. Cc: grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com, Mark Conner
  589. <mconner7@verizon.net>
  590. Subject: Re: Fuel flows
  591. Message-ID: <319F527D-F931-43BF-B1E0-60146D9A981A@flytx1.com>
  592. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  593.  
  594. My AA5A is 9.5GPH @ cruise (HC, Sensenich) & 127Kt.
  595.  
  596. My M35 is 13GPH @ cruise & 155 Kt.
  597.  
  598. Airframe is everything.
  599.  
  600. Les Staples
  601.  
  602. On the road.....
  603.  
  604.  
  605.  
  606.  
  607. ------------------------------
  608.  
  609. Message: 4
  610. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:01:10 -0700
  611. From: "Ken Blackman" <guru@airmodsnw.com>
  612. To: "'Mike T'" <mctaglieri@gmail.com>
  613. Cc: grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com
  614. Subject: RE: Stall warning
  615. Message-ID: <007d01d1fca7$8c00dda0$a40298e0$@airmodsnw.com>
  616. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
  617.  
  618. Subject: Re: Stall warning
  619.  
  620. I've been thinking about these posts for a month, and they've got me pretty
  621. close to being convinced that I don't want to buy a Yankee or any certified
  622. plane, because the parts situation is ridiculous. This thread is talking
  623. about a microswitch -- a thing you can get for five bucks any electronics
  624. supply house. But because this particular $5 microswitch was part of a
  625. stall-warning assembly that was installed in a certified plane, you can't
  626. just replace it with a new one, but instead you soak the crappy one in
  627. solvent to make it a bit less crappy (if you're lucky), or you have to pay
  628. thousands of dollars for a new stall-warning assembly?!?
  629.  
  630. My instinct would be to find a similar-looking microswitch with the same
  631. capacity (or maybe even the same microswitch), swap it for the bad one and
  632. put it back in the plane. I've been noticing on Barnstormers and elsewhere
  633. that completed homebuilt planes with similar capabilities to the Grumman
  634. sell for vastly more money. I figured this was because they were new, so it
  635. made sense to buy the certified plane. But it looks like the truth is that
  636. you pay now or you pay later -- the certified plane is cheaper because you
  637. wind up getting bled to death on the price of replacement parts.
  638.  
  639. Is this pessimism correct? If not, please explain why.
  640.  
  641. Mike Taglieri
  642.  
  643. [Blackman]
  644.  
  645. Just to clarify things, that "microswitch" is not any "off the shelf, 5
  646. buck" switch. It is quite unique and, though similar ones exist, I know of
  647. no one who has successfully changed the actuating arm to what is needed to
  648. operate it in the existing housing. I have tried but torn up two of the
  649. switches (which cost more like around 30 bucks each) trying.
  650.  
  651. Not to mention the fact that screwing with the thing is totally illegal, and
  652. I don't know too many licensed mechanics who would sign off on it, knowing
  653. it had been "repaired" by persons unknown. I disagree with Dave Fletcher
  654. that they are "plentiful" as I have not found this to be the case. The
  655. factory used a special long rivet to secure the outer housing and switch
  656. together and all the ones I have seen people take apart were put back
  657. together using screws. In other words it is pretty easy to tell if they
  658. have been taken apart.
  659.  
  660. The manufacturer is Safe Flight. The part number of ours is 164-3, which is
  661. somehow different from a 164-4 which used to be available in Wag Aero's
  662. catalog. I haven't seen them for a long time in any catalog. The reason
  663. for the tremendous price is, as I understand, the cost of product liability
  664. insurance as there have been many law suits won by blaming the crash on
  665. things like this switch which, in many cases, didn't survive the accident
  666. and is something lawyers can point at as "possibly" a cause and, especially
  667. in our airplanes, where there has been a history of stall related accidents,
  668. a sharp lawyer will jump on it with both feet and try to ride it home. The
  669. salvage yards keep close watch on such insignificant things that have
  670. unusually high prices and want their due when someone is looking for them.
  671. FBOs and shops like mine are not that different. It is difficult enough to
  672. pay the bills in this business so we need to get the true going price for
  673. parts even if it seems like "skyway robbery" in some cases. I have to
  674. consider I may need that very part on the next plane that comes in for
  675. annual so it all weighs in on the asking price.
  676.  
  677. By the way, one person commented on the price of current production aircraft
  678. in relation to parts prices and it is a very valid consideration. If our
  679. planes were in production today, I venture to say a Tiger would be over
  680. $400,000.00. In 1979 it was less than $50,000 for a similar equipped plane.
  681. That's an 800 percent increase. I just took the time to dig up an old 1979
  682. parts price sheet (from my deep archives of having been a dealer in the
  683. '70s) and that unit sold for $86.99 then. X8 would be just under $700.00 if
  684. there were not for the "lawyer factor" mentioned above.
  685.  
  686. The idea of avoiding a lot of this kind of cost by opting for an "amateur
  687. built" aircraft is one way to look at it but there are the down-sides as
  688. well.
  689.  
  690. Ken Blackman
  691. Air Mods N.W.
  692. guru@airmodsnw.com
  693. 425-334-3030
  694.  
  695.  
  696.  
  697.  
  698. ------------------------------
  699.  
  700. Message: 5
  701. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:37:08 -0400
  702. From: linn Walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
  703. To: Grumman Gang <grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com>
  704. Subject: Fwd: Re: E-AB Safety
  705. Message-ID: <r1uatgs5wogeoijoj3rrw22w.1471893924472@email.android.com>
  706. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
  707.  
  708. I don't blame E-AB itself ..... it's a gathering place for poor workmanship, inability to follow the plans, and "better ideas". B I've seen a whole lot of examples of them all. B Hopefully I've learned a lot B a lot along the way. B I look at the fatalities (most anyway) as the result of chlorine in the gene pool.
  709. Linn
  710.  
  711.  
  712.  
  713.  
  714. ------------------------------
  715.  
  716. Message: 6
  717. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:32:52 -0700
  718. From: Gary L Vogt <flyingtiger0747+aol@grumman.net>
  719. To: Mark Conner <mconner7@verizon.net>,
  720. "grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com"
  721. <grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com>
  722. Subject: Re: Fuel flows
  723. Message-ID: <6D767013-CAAE-43ED-BD17-6D7EBEF434C3@aol.com>
  724. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  725.  
  726. > On Aug 22, 2016, at 6:35 AM, Mark Conner <mconner7@verizon.net> wrote:
  727. >
  728. > I have been flying my 77 Tiger for several years now. Like most of us I
  729. > always yearn for a little more performance but cringe at the exponential
  730. > increase in price for that next 20 knots. I have decided to keep the Tiger
  731. > and run it at 75% and consider the fuel burn a fraction of moving up.
  732. >
  733. > I wanted to compare notes with others on fuel flows. I have flow matched
  734. > cylinders and a power flow exhaust, turn a 63" pitch Sensenich at 2700 rpm
  735. in
  736. > cruise at or above 10,000' density altitude. I lean to max power and then
  737. a
  738. > click or two on the rich side to keep the CHT's in the 350 range and
  739. commonly
  740. > see 12-13 GPH trip fuel burn. That seems a little high but the plane seems
  741. to
  742. > make good power and I true between 133 and 138 knots at that altitude
  743. > depending on weight.
  744. >
  745. > Comments?
  746. >
  747. > Mark Conner
  748. > Chief Pilot
  749. > Decor Industries
  750.  
  751. Anecdote: A week ago Saturday, I flew a Tiger, N4557V, to Columbia with a
  752. Traveler, N100YA. With the Traveler at 2450 rpm and both of us at about 130
  753. knots TAS, the Tiger was turning about 2200 rpm. The Traveler fuel flow was
  754. about 8.5 gph while the Tiger was 5.9 gph. Both have JPI 830s.
  755.  
  756.  
  757.  
  758.  
  759. ------------------------------
  760.  
  761. Message: 7
  762. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 16:34:32 -0400
  763. From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
  764. To: "grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com"
  765. <grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com>
  766. Subject: Re: Starter problem
  767. Message-ID:
  768. <CAJ5A3tKgU2kGnrgZBX8QYkiCmSqSw91cPqZ-Tkv9PPP4d-QwnQ@mail.gmail.com>
  769. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
  770.  
  771. Hi Paul:
  772.  
  773. Yes, it would work IF you had a baseline voltage.
  774. But! Your method is a Ball Park reading.
  775. There are two issues:
  776. 1 - As you crank, the voltage will constantly be decreasing. That means
  777. you will have to constantly go back to the battery and get a source
  778. voltage. This source voltage will not account for any normal voltage drop
  779. across the Master Relay or Starter Relay.
  780. 2 - You are working around a Spinning Prop. The engine can start if not
  781. done properly. Too many safety issues.
  782.  
  783. Your idea will work if you just take Resistance Readings across each
  784. junction.
  785. You start out by ZEROing the DMM to remove the variable of the meter leads.
  786.  
  787. Then just take reading at each junction.
  788. What you are LQQKing for is ZERO Ohms across each junction.
  789. ANY resistance, even 1 Ohm is too much.
  790.  
  791.  
  792. Barry
  793. "Chop'd Liver"
  794.  
  795.  
  796.  
  797.  
  798.  
  799. ------------------------------
  800.  
  801. Message: 8
  802. Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 06:35:59 +1000
  803. From: Alan Lindsay <winarnie1@gmail.com>
  804. To: grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com
  805. Subject: Fuel flow Mark Conner
  806. Message-ID: <864C8B92-0361-4B48-9E65-26CF16ED5018@gmail.com>
  807. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  808.  
  809. Hi Mark,
  810. Your fuel flow approaching nearly 50 lt hr seem a bit high to me, though if
  811. your Tiger is giving you a genuine 138 Kt, that is a dam good speed if you
  812. discount the hyperbole of much that is written
  813. My aircraft ( and most in good condition) gives very close to the figures in
  814. the performance tables which should be somewhere around 42 lt / hr @ 75%
  815. giving somewhere above 130 kts perhaps 135. I imagine you are perhaps a little
  816. rich though if ALL CHTs are around 350 you should be rather happy
  817. Leaning is such a vague, misunderstood, subjective and contentious subject
  818. that to suggest you are doing right or wrong is to open a can of worms.
  819. I'm a great believer in Mike Bosche but that's another story and I do tend run
  820. my engine around 65% power
  821. Regards
  822. Al
  823.  
  824.  
  825.  
  826.  
  827. ------------------------------
  828.  
  829. Message: 9
  830. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 16:47:16 -0500
  831. From: Buddy Cox <buddycox@gmail.com>
  832. To: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
  833. Cc: "grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com"
  834. <grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com>
  835. Subject: Re: Starter problem
  836. Message-ID: <C3AD115F-21C2-4A59-978B-CC0B6574FA93@gmail.com>
  837. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  838.  
  839. Thanks for all the suggestions. Took the battery to AutoZone for free test.
  840. Battery is bad. 4.5 years old.
  841. Buddy Cox
  842.  
  843.  
  844.  
  845.  
  846. ------------------------------
  847.  
  848. Message: 10
  849. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:00:34 -0500
  850. From: "Jared Brank" <jared@brankmail.com>
  851. To: <flyingtiger0747+aol@grumman.net>
  852. Cc: grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com
  853. Subject: Re: AG5B alternator light
  854. Message-ID: <007f01d1fcc0$9c183e90$d448bbb0$@brankmail.com>
  855. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
  856.  
  857. Gary,
  858.  
  859.  
  860.  
  861. On my 1993 AG-5B the yellow/orangeish ALTNR light in the top center of the
  862. panel does illuminate when the master is turned on. It only turns off once
  863. the engine is cranked and turns back on when the engine is shutdown.
  864. Apparently the AG-5B series had several different versions of the alternator
  865. wiring and controller that changed for some serial numbers. I had some work
  866. done where the alternator was disconnected and then the light would never go
  867. out, but it turned out it was just hooked up goofy. Hooked back up right and
  868. it's good to go.
  869.  
  870.  
  871.  
  872. Hope this helps
  873.  
  874. - Jared
  875.  
  876.  
  877.  
  878.  
  879. ------------------------------
  880.  
  881. Message: 11
  882. Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 18:04:34 -0400
  883. From: John Horton <hortonjf@comcast.net>
  884. To: Buddy Cox <buddycox@gmail.com>
  885. Cc: Grumman Gang <grumman-gang@mailman.xmission.com>
  886. Subject: Re: Starter problem
  887. Message-ID: <ACBA6395-6697-4F25-A415-AD65C6D86C4B@comcast.net>
  888. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  889.  
  890. Buddy,
  891. It could be several things. The frequent problems are the battery (even if not
  892. very old), connections, solenoids, etc. The least expensive way to determine
  893. IMO is to use the trouble shooting instructions from Skytec
  894. http://www.skytecair.com/Troubleshooting.htm
  895. Beside the battery, master and starter solenoids on the firewall there might
  896. be another solenoid on the rear of the starter. That's the case with the light
  897. weight Sky tec starter. I had one of those fail without warning. It's also the
  898. reason why I replied it with the NL skytec model. If the problem turns out to
  899. be the starter and it's a skytec model, contact them. They used to have a
  900. rebuilt exchange program that would save you some money.
  901.  
  902. Let us know,
  903. John Horton
  904.  
  905.  
  906.  
  907.  
  908.  
  909. End of Grumman-gang Digest, Vol 13, Issue 367
  910. *********************************************
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