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Transcript for file: For_the_Record_1.mp3


00:00:00
Is the response I'm calling in.

00:00:05
I should call. OK. Can you hear me.

00:00:23
OK. Ms dance. Can you hear me.

00:00:34
OK we don't have the best technology set up here in the world. What I would like you to ask you to let us know if you have any problem hearing and Mr. deuse petitioners not present.

00:00:48
Not yet I don't know why not I expected him. OK. You are ready to proceed. Now I'm ready to receive you. It was one o'clock so. OK. All right. OK. Mr. DAVIS This is your motion. Yes your honor my brain does have the half of it and so you were asking the court to return the child who was taken in the state of Washington his home state. Back to the state of Washington and there's some controverted evidence but even this declaration does not indicate that there was any agreement that she was to remove the child from the state. Specifically on page 2 it says on the bottom the night I ask you if I could take your

00:01:28
son to go live with my mother and a white Timperley all I could think is I just needed a break. And then as soon as I was on the plane.

00:01:35
So no agreement no acquiescence nothing in regards to the child and taking the child to Hawaii. She just took the child through why I didn't make a statement he didn't know when he knew where she was going. He did know that she was going to die not to reside. He denies there's an agreement that she was to take the child to Hawaii.

00:01:56
OK I don't think anybody is indicating that there was any kind of agreement for the child to live permanently in Hawaii.

00:02:02
You know my my point went white and she understood that you permission to go but not to stay there permanently.

00:02:11
The child. I don't think that was not a tenth of the time. No. OK. I'm just I just want to cut through rather than hear arguments about things that are not controversial. OK. So she went to you on a trip back and may or may not have intended to come back. She really has it really hasn't been addressed on other side that she's moving in.

00:02:34
Two individuals who in the past at least one has been convicted of child sexual abuse. Who is that. That's her mother. Mother was convicted.

00:02:43
She works with the fishermen declaration and we provided a way that this reminds me of something in some of the paperwork there was a judgment and sentence on the fire. Mr. Wilson is that right. Yes. Well you know that's right I saw that. And I couldn't help on the judgment sentence but notice the name of Mr. Wilson's defense attorney in 2005. Gary Gaer my late husband had my husband back in 2009. He was a public defender for 14 years. And I know absolutely nothing about this case and certainly don't recall

00:03:22
hearing anything about it but I did think it was appropriate to point this out to counsel.

00:03:28
I normally ask my client for me your honor. Monica you and Mr. DAVIS.

00:03:41
No sir.

00:03:45
Frankly I don't remember things he said about murder cases much less the case.

00:03:50
OK. All right.

00:04:02
Are you agreeing that that's correct that her mother was convicted of child. No I can't. OK. And the mother's name was what was that.

00:04:11
I know there was some evidence of a charge in New Mexico but it would have been a case here in the state of Washington since the parties had gone there. And what is her date of birth will just in July.

00:04:27
Yes really quickly.

00:04:33
And I you know your mom. Right this takes a second putting up programs seem to take longer when people are waiting.

00:05:26
I'll pay.

00:05:30
No she does not have a connection for that. There are and I'm certain this is the right case because there are a number a right person because there are a number of dependency filings that I don't think anybody is disputing.

00:05:43
One two three four five from 2002 to 2005. So County Council she was never convicted.

00:05:52
So we had it in one county case numbers 28.

00:06:00
I don't know which county is 31 these are all 28.

00:06:04
So I imagine that's right. Yes. Right.

00:06:12
I know that there order the things that we were out of San Juan County and that's why I asked that question I don't know.

00:06:24
Counsel why don't we talk about the parties involved in this case.

00:06:28
Well your honor that is one of the biggest concerns my client has because he also spoke for the record straight away with any case. And he's also in his declaration in the states report to CBS and the.

00:06:41
Brother regarding the brother molesting the mother. That's correct to report I don't see any finding or any convictions or anything else. I understand that your brother in the home with. OK. They're indicating the mother does the brother does not reside there.

00:06:55
But my understanding is contact with the child. OK. So that is the concern with his declaration that the mother has indicated to him personally. That the brother should be concerned. That the mother. Was involved in the sexual abuse of the family was found in the court documents whether she had whether she had. It or something else. I understand.

00:07:17
But that's hearsay. I I don't think anybody is alleging that this mother did not come from a really problematic family background and had a lot of difficulty since the trial.

00:07:29
Why don't we talk about these poor these parents rather we were asking the child be returned to the state of Washington the mother required or requested a from the state of Hawaii. The first request was denied. The second request my client put forth his declaration which I'm sure the boys will make that requested that he was going to be completely dropped.

00:07:52
Counsel can you explain to me how it makes sense. By the way the declaration it's not a declaration from your client's mother it's not under penalty of perjury it's just a statement. Can you explain to me how it makes sense that the court is supposed to believe that her mother told his mother that if he didn't show up and argue his case the next day the mother would dismiss the restraining order. Why would they want him not to show up if they were going to dismiss it anyway. That doesn't make any sense.

00:08:24
To show up if the case was dismissed by say that he said he chose not to show up because they said they were going to dismiss it anyway. We've.

00:08:32
Provided documents of the court report that shows the mother had filed a petition to drop the restraining order.

00:08:41
I know you did. Well you find somebody. Let's go back to your client's statement. How is that credible and the fact is he didn't appear a restraining order was entered and why. Right. That's what happens.

00:08:54
All right.

00:08:55
And unfortunately parties make agreements talk amongst themselves all the time.

00:09:00
Certainly not saying that explanation of why restraining order was entered is pretty nonsensical. Well it's agreed in the decoration that the confrontation was taking place just not the substance of what my client said was spoken and agreed to my client maintains that the mother is guilty of custodial interference in the first degree. Child from the state.

00:09:26
Case law. She did you change. In 2013. What you're going to come into court case in case I miss some.

00:09:36
Be. OK.

00:09:39
OK. What is the statute for custodial interference in the first degree.

00:09:42
OK. CW. Nancy Despereaux dash 0 6 0.

00:09:59
Hey a parent of a child is guilty of custodial interference in the first degree if the parent takes anti-seize retains the danger or conceals the child with intent to deny access from the other parent having a lawful right to time with the child pursuant to a court order making residential provisions for the child.

00:10:31
That's correct Your Honor. OK so court order 2013 the Supreme Court. Ruled that a protection order. Because the previous statute.

00:10:42
So the parenting plan can be a custody order so he had it giving him custody of the temporary restraining order of protection order from the state away giving him custody of the time getting him custody and visitation of the child. In the court's mean Section 2 subsection one does not require.

00:11:08
That there be a parenting plan or two.

00:11:10
So I think I know stop this is not a criminal court.

00:11:14
I think you're spending a lot of time and he spent a lot of time trying to paint her as a kidnapper or something else. And you're not addressing what is clearly a concern. OK I'm looking at the Hawaii order.

00:11:29
That's exhibit where is your citation on tampering.

00:11:39
They're doing border the very best you to the vision of the flatboat petition responded Subsection C no order where I'm reading the whole Whitewater page three to get it for. That's what I've turned to actually. You know that I would be the temporary worker. That's what we're talking about is temporary order.

00:12:03
Well we're talking about the work that was said in 2007.

00:12:09
OK so phase three of the problem in order that he was never served with according from page three or tensioners order number in custody number to match up temporary visitation rights. There's no there's no conditions or time we go out with the petitioner and the court finds out but we provide for the safety of the children.

00:12:40
There is a range between the parties maybe a phone or text messaging and so on. And your your client an issue about being served that order anyway. Right. And then. You see. That. I had first heard.

00:12:57
About the second page of that order myself. The reason I make this argument to the court is more a bigger picture. My client has beliefs that his child is in danger hasn't seen or had a child for over six months now seven months which has been why I guess what the. Reaction is because it's what came first the chicken or the egg they're saying he is showing abuse through stock and I believe is what they laid out in the statute. But this stalking behavior is consistent with what he. Says that he's supposed to contact and arrange visitation with.

00:13:36
Those page after page after page after page is doing what he's supposed to do which is contact family for to discuss visitation and contact with the child. I guess my question is is it would you go. Further than simply not respond.

00:13:56
Not video conferences or not do those things but she has since we received these papers just cut off all communication whatsoever. And so she chooses whether or not to also engage discuss and do any of these things. And because from the position that she has taken the child with the child when he is in this situation has a concern and a fear for the child's safety. That kind of behavior isn't just decoration. To try. To elicit responses from a mother. So they check on this child.

00:14:28
OK. All right. Thank you. Response. Yes Your Honor.

00:14:33
First Mr. say hi. Hey my old records. Yes yes yes yes. You.

00:15:00
Well counsel we're not opposed to that but I post I would say there's a lot of records that were filed here that if you want to write up an order indicating that this document page number such and such a waiver shall be filed under seal. The clerk's office you're more than welcome to do that.

00:15:24
Well that is under way. Mary since when she left after dealing with somebody who were frankly small amounts on file accusations and not only this with her mother. Things like that. You know he states

00:16:12
the fact that you want to report me to the police looking at my wife's medical records you better be prepared for them everywhere. He also admits to having sideways freshmen's you and Theresa come on. Honestly they started it. If you look at your conversations with them sorry I violated your privacy. The first person for us to see were these are not the conversations. Wow. And I appreciate that since all these things were said.

00:16:44
Again. Even the allegation that there's more than that that was in the papers that we is it going to say that we've not been able to count so I will sustain the objection except for.

00:17:00
A concern that the worthlessness of this may be ongoing and we let it happen. Well you don't even talk about the ongoing. You can just address what is here.

00:17:13
All right. This has been ongoing messages with her and her which is. Why. Mr. not know about this order and you think he continues to violate Is there a problem with palm. Sunday.

00:17:33
There. I we just wanted to see if you were still there because we are getting some strange notes.

00:17:47
What matters for your honor is with dealing with somebody who is upset. It's not consistent with somebody and somebody who is out. And so it's our position that you are it's the reason you know also reason that we included all compositions. Now the court could see that this was trying to make sure that video chats she was not only for him but now it's reached her on video chat and the way that he might find it it's not what we have.

00:18:29
Is that for now. That's right why you've also asked for restrictions based on our position that we clearly established stalking and that is basis for parents. Hundred twenty six. The definition of domestic violence the violence in relationship also includes stalking. Lay out is very clear. All we need and we provide literally hundreds upon which for someone to call me and say oh I mean how how are they

00:19:08
supposed to work out. It's very easy to say when you're trying to psyche out a relationship between your child the father of your child. How can you go. Well I think it's asking too much of anyone. You know it's part of the other concerns I appreciate that Mr. Lindsey is raising all these allegations against my mother brother. They are all they are not true. That was taken. What happened with her father. She has no contact with them. And she is living with her mother and sister. This. Child in a safe place. And the thing that you know Mr. say it

00:19:48
also indicates that she is actually I think we going to work with her mother that she is the child. As far as that's is she trying to get pretty easy I guess. Oh my. Well Miss. Say this is not Benson. Take them for what was permanent and arrest her. And this is what this is all that much more like. When she was 16 years old and

00:20:29
it losing the children. We finally have a child he marries her and just look at the population and how he treats her it does not help. And so it's our position right now that makes them feel safe. Why is there anything fun that you should go by. What is it say she should come to Washington you really believe that Mr. encik really from these communications and this upsets the way he has not despite repeated requests to court order. He doesn't care. He needs some sort of evaluation.

00:21:17
She wants to ask the child be rich. This father was a teacher with the child when it was in motion allegations. And under this statute it indicates the kind of stacking for authority. And so I believe that that would be one of the issues regarding his continued contact and the concern of the quarterback child support numbers.

00:21:47
There's nothing to fear that I don't I have one from 2016 because the parties haven't filed it and we've got to we filed this on 12 16 16 is when the case was filed. You know the case was filed on April 7th of 2007 and think of the location of the court.

00:22:08
And when I say that I'm not finding fault with my family I don't have all the feeding.

00:22:12
I don't have the financials that the father has provided. Are are really difficult. He asked for me to set him. A wage of twenty eight thirty five. What is that based on imputed income for his age and for good reason for 40 20 an hour as well we didn't put it in the. End 20 yet by the way that's the other problem is 2015 he made fifty four thousand three hundred thirty five dollars which will result in the growth of forty five point seven a month on his test for worksheets

00:22:51
he's given me he's got a growth of 34 48 so more than 2000. Yes your honor. And why would we impute this 20 year old girl who has never worked at anything more than minimum wage. We couldn't be good in my daughter I about to be 18 maybe but I am about I am concerned about the fact that he has access to more evidence regarding his earnings and hasn't provided it to me.

00:23:18
Well I guess we could review the review regarding child support.

00:23:24
This is somebody that wants to make a task based on that and from a a. But yet he says very clearly if he could pay for an apartment for her and give her money and everything else so how much money does he have available.

00:23:39
From his parents and his father. Again he's. Employed this entire year. And so I would like to make the point. It would be appropriate. My client would like to see his child in her pay for that. We're going to let him I guess initially that we can get into that.

00:23:59
Well if he can pay for an apartment for her to live separately and all her expenses on a plane flight back. One would think he could pay for a guardian ad litem.

00:24:08
OK. Now we find that child. Yes. I'm just that that the number that they put down your honor I think you that. The minimum wage. Why. Oh. OK but what about the numbers that are on her. It was a it was it. My understanding was they believe it was only 80000 a year.

00:24:33
So you know and then as was the only other thing I wanted to respond briefly stalking maybe hurt on that just briefly on what on the stalking.

00:24:50
I know.

00:24:51
OK. Thank you.

00:24:59
I make it a point to read everything in a file unless it's clearly a motion that I only need to go back to recently. I will go back as far as I feel I need to go back so I've reviewed everything in this file.

00:25:13
I will tell you what I haven't read every single one of his messages. And I spent a couple of hours with them. They are relentless harassing clearly threatening blackmail.

00:25:34
I'm going to spread all this private personal information about you and everyone and everyone in your family to everyone who possibly could have any contact with you with you it is called names call talks about having that can even in his own mind. This was an offensive campaign against her. I have reviewed the custodial interference and kidnapping statutes I hold them up just right now custodial interference requires violation of a court order and counsel. You're quite right. D.B order can indeed

00:26:12
be a custody order that sets up visitation. But this one says so have temporary visitation rights not as arranged between the parties by way of phone or text message. It doesn't call for any physical visit. Clearly she is cooperating with trying to put the child on the phone. Clearly she tries to cooperate with these for every time she responds. I can't even I can't even tell. But it certainly appears to be 40 or 50. What she repeatedly

00:26:53
asked him to stop this is simply horrifying.

00:26:59
And I don't use those words lightly. I see many domestic violence cases. I don't see any. It doesn't appear she's alleging physical domestic violence she's talking alleging harassment and emotional abuse.

00:27:14
And perhaps it would have been difficult to buy under the circumstances if he had provided this overwhelming amount of evidence. There are many things concerning in this case quite frankly I do have concerns about her living with her mother because it does appear clear that if nothing else her mother wasn't protective of her. At the very least. So that is certainly concerning. I have concerns about the care of this child but I am not willing to make the leap and find that someone

00:27:52
because they were victimized as a child. Are clearly mentally ill now. And what I have are the allegations of the Father. I would note by the way that some of these declarations filed are just kind of stunning when we have one by another young woman who resided in his home and said she saw Danica yelling and screaming and hitting at him in the summer of 2012. She was actually 12. She was 14. I may be wrong there. Maybe she was hit 15 but she was clearly under 16. She

00:28:31
has this child when she's 18 and he blithely talks about we were trying to have a child multiple many miscarriages before. And this is really concerning. It does not. I believe that she may have tried to get the the protection order and Hawaii dismissed certainly a girl of her age 20 years old would not be that hard to manipulate especially a girl with a history that she has. And my goodness it's many threats and manipulations and going back and forth

00:29:10
between I love you and I'll buy you just about anything you want to or you're the worst person on earth psychopathic sociopathic. It is just it is so relentless that that I would just be shocked if she had been able to withstand it without responding. I am not going to enter a temporary parenting plan.

00:29:32
I will sit one day a week for a Skype visit and you guys. And the problem it really is a serious problem that she's in Hawaii because it's just difficult to know what resources are available that I would suggest that it be set up if they can find some kind of visitation center where a visitation supervisor or an agreed upon third party it sets it up. But I am not going to order that the mother had any contact with him at all in that regard and go through

00:30:11
counsel and I don't think I have a motion for restraints against any contact between these parents but I am going to order that. Any contact between the parents goes through counsel and visitation has to be set up through either state visits through a professional or through an agreed upon third party because I don't think she should keep doing this. I will order a guardian ad litem at the father's sole expense and again he must have the expense. It is seriously problematic for a guardian ad litem because of the distance and certainly I'm not ordering that the Guardian ad Litem fly to

00:30:49
Hawaii. That just I I think the father obviously has some money to do some things but I can't assume beyond that. I recognize that given the family of origin and the fact that Danica is living with her mother that there are some reasonable concerns that had this been brought to the court right away and those were the only issues instead of months and months and months and months of harassment and stalking we would be in a completely different posture in this case because I am seriously concerned about her father's mental health just the fact that he has been able to do this so

00:31:27
relentlessly for so many months that is really concerning and I am quite certain Mr.. I'm sorry he's not here because I'm certain Mr. Duse that you very likely as any attorney would told him to lay off and to stop. I have but I don't know if he's capable of it but I certainly want to know why. But he needs to stop now. Either in conjunction with counsel or in conjunction with a GA. Well I do think it's appropriate to contact see what resources are available if they have court appointed. I can't point to Hawaii GA obviously because they

00:32:06
have to be approved by our court that I think perhaps ga ga in conjunction with counsel can find out if there is someone that they can send out to check out the home and the safety of the child and to see how things are going.

00:32:27
I am also going to include clues in an abundance of caution that you shall not leave the child solely with your brother or solely with your mother.

00:32:41
OK. OK.

00:32:44
But that's fine. All right. Well I want to include that in the order. I will. I just have a couple of questions. Yes. On the one day a week video visit on the some guidelines on how much time that should be to the kids. Yeah.

00:33:01
The problem with this is this is a two year old.

00:33:04
Oh I don't I am not.

00:33:09
I am. The problem with ordering it is is made some 2 year olds. Maybe you could sit there and talk on a Skype call for 20 minutes or half an hour more than would jump up and run away after 30 seconds. I am not going to order a minimum time. OK we'll order. And also in an abundance of caution given the vitriol in this case I'm concerned that there's accusations about this the protection of both parents that the video the Skype calls can be recorded. And if the child gets up and runs off. Well

00:33:48
I'm really sorry for that and that's too bad but I'm not going to order that they take a 2 year old to a chair. The father wishes to fly to Hawaii. He may have professionally supervised visits of fanning out and see if there's a warrant out for his arrest or why that might interfere with that. But if he were to fly out he is caution that he has to have no contact with Danica and any and he could if he flew out there could have up to four hours a day eight hours a week professionally

00:34:29
supervised visits with the child and on both of those be at his expense. Yes.

00:34:34
And then other state visits because they're going to be short duration if it can be set up because this is a show for the young child. It's just a smaller parts of contact would be appropriate.

00:34:47
I recognize I think these calls could very well. What would your client think about scheduling twice a week.

00:34:55
I think the only issue that I have concerns trying to do it that was going to be my question actually doing it with and did you mean redefine third party or because the problem with that.

00:35:13
Well either a professional at a supervisor or center or if the parties can agree upon a third party handling the calls.

00:35:23
I I personally think when we say we treat this week like I am be that one time a week.

00:35:33
I am willing to review this case as soon as a guardian ad litem has something to say.

00:35:40
Would you like it to be.

00:35:43
Well the concern with that is that I don't know how cooperative everybody's going to be with her and I'd like them. It's summertime. Who are you going to get are they going to be able to get right on it. I will just say that the court is willing to review it as soon as guardian ad litem is willing to make some kind of recommendation does not need to be a full report.

00:36:04
It can be just a short recommendation going forward and then that's a guarantee. All right.

00:36:17
Why don't we leave that for the jury. All right. I will reserve that for the GA. But you can mark the box that the jail is authorized to require. That's simply because frankly my reading of all this indicates that a serious issue the cost of a supervisor. In Hawaii will be borne by the father the mother clearly doesn't have any funds that 20 years old and not educated in and on assistance. Why not appointing a guardian ad litem. I'm directing the guardian ad litem here to work with counsel about

00:36:58
finding someone. And that's a whole separate guardian ad litem someone who is there for her to discuss and have gone out and check the house and check the child. OK. So. What I'm saying. You can appoint. Someone their social worker or something like that. OK understand your honor with the court.

00:37:20
There's been calls to CPS. And why does anybody know if there's any CPS reports they've come out to the home.

00:37:26
I know there was more e-mails last that you did too many people and why. Why.

00:37:37
I am going to order sou'west Fanti he is restrained from contacting her period even without a motion for restraints. I am entering it this is just relentless. He can go through counsel. He can send the letters too. Well no he's got.

00:37:57
He can go pencil. What about the things I would ask. That we have an opportunity to respond. Standing before. Was in.

00:38:12
The pages of 24 hours to respond to it. They came in after recess and we did try to respond. Did any of it.

00:38:20
He said he needed to be outrageous to get other eyes on his child. He did respond. I'm. Saying no further contact period. Now suing spotty. You can certainly talk to your client about filing an anti harassment order right now. OK. And again this can be you. Is there some actual information there with his number on earth. Ok I will accept that from others. I will find out. All I have to work with is really the 2015 to which his growth averaged 45

00:39:02
27 a month. So rerun the trials for worksheets with Rose for Father 45 27 standard deductions and you can use the figure of 10 81 from her mom and I will enter a child support order.

00:39:15
Thank you. Thank you very much. All right.

00:39:26
Sure. Let her know. Well you want to hang up and then try to show sure we're going to recess. I'm going to go back in chambers if you believe there's something that needs to go back on the record for you can do that.

00:39:40
All right thank you. And we're in recess. All.

00:39:48
Right.

00:40:02
Here you go. So yes. I didn't know that so wrong guess when you are going to be nice to see why not.

00:40:12
It's so much easier than you might like. I was. My son we is what I got my mom. What are you wearing mom. What's that.

00:40:37
I think you got my two brothers two sisters and they have this complex emotional thing going on. I just don't understand this. What. Do you.

00:40:56
Think.

00:41:01
Oh that was funny. When I'm going through all the paperwork and here I.

00:41:07
Have cases where I had a couple of clients where I had to say I'm so sorry I prosecuted you. Do you still have those.

00:41:22
Well no. Basically. The. Murder. All right. Oh my. God. It. Was. Yes. And he kept saying you heard somebody prowling.

00:41:55
About that which was just one of those sticks that stick your head in years for me. So. And by the way I personally think that you know very bizarre.

00:42:15
But I thinking that me like life was wrong.

00:42:24
Years later my gosh. So I took it to. Tracy it's at least three cases. I think that if there's a conflict I think workers and I can tell her anything just says. And later on that morning we're talking and she says you know that case for me. So it was weird. What are you hearing. You know it was like oh.

00:42:51
My god.