Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
yeah I see it now
DEN!
Riddle me this
What is confidence?
I want everyone who is willing to take part to answer to me what they think is confidence.
So I can then correct all of you and tell you all that you're wrong but that's fine have confidence in me
Felix - 08/30/2017
faith in somethings capabilities to do summit
Ikaru - 08/30/2017
never heard of it, sorry
IceCreamSandWitch - 08/30/2017
Confidence could be answering this question even after being told your answer is going to be incorrect.
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
And why
would it be confidence?
and by the way
felix wrong
ikaru funny
icsw waiting to see if wrong
IceCreamSandWitch - 08/30/2017
Because telling us we're going to be wrong might already cause us to lose confidence.
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
No1
And yes
But mostly no!
And you're still not defining confidence
just what confident behavior is
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
so what could it beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Also
am I confident
Do you think I
the kurotsunest
am the confidents
and if i am not
then who is
the confidents
IceCreamSandWitch - 08/30/2017
Yeah, I wasn't really confident I was answering the question properly
I don't know why, but I'm having a hard time defining confidence without using the word confidence. It's kind of like I don't know another word for it, even though I should and there are probably plenty of them.
Sardines - 08/30/2017
self-assurance?
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Almost
elaborate
you may be onto something my fishy friend
Felix - 08/30/2017
i mean theres a difference between having confidence in someone and behaving confidently(edited)
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Yes
I'm speaking exclusively about "behaving confidently"
Although
They are somewhat similar
and you can use one to explain the other
Sardines - 08/30/2017
self-assurance due to knowing/appreciation of your own abilities
Felix - 08/30/2017
acting confidently is acting in a manner that inspires confidence by convincing people you are possess traits that make you trustworthy to do x thing(edited)
Sardines - 08/30/2017
(and this could be slightly worded differently to explain the other)
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Aw shame
all wrong
Sardines - 08/30/2017
Not even close?
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Close
All of you are close
in some way all of you are correct
But you are all missing the essence of confidence
The true bottom line
the end result of it
I do want y'all to answer my other question before I ruin the fun though
am I confident?
Felix - 08/30/2017
you're either confident, arrogant or conceited
depends on how right you are and how much of a goose chase you send us on
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
I am not arrogant, sorry.
Arrogance is a perception of skills you don't have.
I flaunt the skills I do have
I am assertive to an agressive extreme
And somewhat patronizing
But not arrogant
And one of the hints to the answer is in what I just said
Felix - 08/30/2017
how do you know you aren't arrogant if your perception of your own skills would be flawed to begin with?
IceCreamSandWitch - 08/30/2017
Being aware of the skills you do have?
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Because I don't brag about something like
I can write a novel
or I can fly
I brag about I am smart
ANd jesus christ is anyone here about to deny that?
Felix - 08/30/2017
you don't have to brag to be arrogant
Sardines - 08/30/2017
hmmm
self-assurance about the truth of something?
would that be correct or closer?
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
You don't have to brag, you have to have a false of perception of skill but I don't display false perceptions of skill
I don't say I can do things I can't.(edited)
Felix - 08/30/2017
from our perspective we have no way of verifying that though
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Therefore
You also have no way of claiming I'm arrogant
Because you can't prove or disprove that I am
Felix - 08/30/2017
isn't that the same flaw people found with freuds psycho anlysis shtick?
Ses - 08/30/2017
Im confident
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Not really
Ses - 08/30/2017
I have confidence in my feeling of confidence
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Arrogant behavior is pretty clear but really not the point here
It's the confidence thing
You can get back to trying to attack me after that
Felix - 08/30/2017
im not trying to attack you, i just saw flaws in waht you were sayin
Sardines - 08/30/2017
tfw completely ignored :FeelsBlobMan:
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Not self assurance
The flaws you saw are... Either completely lost on me or not flaws?
Cause your argument was "I can't prove you can't do the things you say you can"
But then how can you say I'm arrogant
You said it yourself that you can't prove that so claiming it is silly
Felix - 08/30/2017
well i saw issue in how you were trying to defend not being arrogant, the whole perception thing, and then your examples of behaviour that would display arrogance when the absence of that behaviour wouldn't neccesarily mean you arent arrogant
thats what i was pickin up
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
While it wouldn't mean I'm not
It does mean you can't say I am
You can only observe my behavior through text
Regardless if I am arrogant you can't possibly say I come across as arrogant if there's no arrogant behavior
Felix - 08/30/2017
yeah sure thats fine, strike arrogance off my initial list
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
But I can safely say I'm not arrogant. I am assertive. That was the hint. Assertiveness.
What is
assertiveness
And why is everything y'all are describing as confidence assertiveness
and not confidence
Felix - 08/30/2017
assertivness is proactive behaviour
confident behaviour doesnt mean you have to do anything
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Assertiveness
rural - 08/30/2017
confidence is believing ur dong is huge even if it might not be
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
is not proactive behavior
Ses - 08/30/2017
Like me
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
That's arrogance
or assertiveness(edited)
Sardines - 08/30/2017
Kurotsune - 2017-08-30 15:08 -04:00
am I confident?
And to answer this:
If we had to follow our close definitions of confidence, I'd say that you give an impression of being confident. But do I believe that you are self-confident (or have a lot of self-confidence)? That I'm not sure of because again, we only have whatever you sincerely tell us. And so far, I can't say "yes" or "no" to that question yet
rural - 08/30/2017
arrogance is huge and hard
confidence is just huge
Felix - 08/30/2017
assertiveness: confident and forceful behaviour.
keyword not being confident but the forceful part
that indicates you do shit
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Okay I'll just give the answers here
Cause I have to leave soon
But
Assertiveness is actually being secure in your abilities. It's knowing what space you take, metaphorically.
To assert yourself is to  impose your perception of abilities
Whereas arrogance is a flawed, false perception of abilities. It's a kind of pseudo-assertiveness.
And there are tests for that by the way I've gottem them
Ame even made one about me behind my back and told me about it later
But ultimately
Confidence is trusting your abilities because you can have zero faith in yourself and be confident
In fact, the overly religious can be often both insecure and confident
Does anyone wanna make a final guess with that new information?
Felix - 08/30/2017
I disagree
Assertiveness might require security in your abilities but it doesnt mean that is waht it is
it seems like you're twisting the word
cant put my finger on it exactly but somethings off
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Your term
Was that being assertive was being proactive forcefully
a quit light search already shows that's wrong(edited)
And the very sentence in the very wikipedia article already states "Assertiveness is the quality of being self-assured and confident without being aggressive. "
Being self-assured means, quite literally, to assure one's self. Of themselves. As in, assure yourself of what you can do.
Felix - 08/30/2017
meanwhile the google dictionary defines it as confident and forceful behaviour
i trust the dictionary mroe than wikipedia
the root word is assert
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
And the description I'm using comes from the universally used Dorland's Medical Dictionary
I'm talking exclusively from a psychological standpoint so I don't really care about the grammatical definition of the word.
Because you don't act with the gramatical definition(edited)
You act with the psychological one
So while you are free to disagree what I'm saying isn't really subjective but rather convention. You can disagree with convention. It's not fact, it's just something agreed to be seen as fact.
And really completely indifferent to the message I want to get across
Felix - 08/30/2017
You're using a dictionary to support your credibility on this then dismissing the grammatical definition im using? It's hard to swallow that. Beyond all teh quibbling tho because it's not too important in the long run i still think to be assertive is a proactive thing that comes as a result of being secure, there has to bea  better word for before that
i;d have said confidence but idk now
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
I'm not using a dictionary.
I'm using a collection of works called Dorland's medical dicitonary or doctionaries.
It's a bunch of different shit that determines how certain terms are used within the field of medicine
Physical or mental medicine
So since I am discussion mental medicine and not grammar
Yes I am disregarding the grammatical dictionary because I'm not discussing language.(edited)
Grammar determines only the word "assertive" means in english whereas the medical usages determines a state or feeling
Or symptom or sickness or whatever
wow
doctionaries
Felix - 08/30/2017
its not that we're discussing language its that it doesnt feel like you're using the language right, im struggling to make sense of it but there is a distinction in there
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
was an unintentional joke
Felix - 08/30/2017
to be frank this is largely over my head
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
I am using the language right.
Yes. And we discuss later in private why this happened to begin with
But right now to carry on
Confidence (as described by psychology to avoid further misinterpretations) is simply put
The belief that things will be fine.
You could say "Wait, but that's optimism"
And no it isn't
To use an example
Felix - 08/30/2017
that
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Are you going to interrupt or will you actually let me finish first?
Felix - 08/30/2017
ill interrupt because its basically a rewording of teh first thing i said
faith in somethings capability to do something
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
No, it isn't
And if you'd let me finish you'd know why
I'm almost just finishing this
If y'all don't like this I'll just not
But honestly at this point I am more than a bit frustrated
I am actually trying to give y'all a positive message and if you don't want me to that's absolutely fine but it is grating when it devolves into the message being completely ignored in lieu of trying to prove me wrong just for the sake of doing it
Or downright trolling
So if you guys don't like this type of thing
Sardines - 08/30/2017
I actually want to know completely, so please don't stop...
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
I'm not below not doing it anymore
Arkhidon - 08/30/2017
I only just got here, hadn't yet backlogged.
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
So just let me know
Felix - 08/30/2017
I mean keep going, i wasnt doing it to prove you wrong i was trying to prove myself right in spite of your arguments
IceCreamSandWitch - 08/30/2017
Sorry for typing while you were explaining. I was going to say I came close with something I thought of but didn't say.
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
I didn't even notice that
Jericho - 08/30/2017
Tits
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
I am sorry for being annoyed, I wish I could practice what I preach constantly not get emotionally invested in debate but when the main point is completely lost and we enter a complete useless tangent with something that could've been dealt with in private later
I do get frustrated
I'm not going to lie pretend I'm above something I'm not.
I respect all of you too much to do that.
I will finish since not doing so at this point would amount to me stomping my feet and storming and I'd like to think I'm not a complete child(edited)
But please if this is unwarranted tell me I won't do it ever again. I promise.(edited)
IceCreamSandWitch - 08/30/2017
You're fine, Kuro. I'm interested in this discussion.
Felix - 08/30/2017
after all this if i dont get some closure as to why im wrong in your eyes im gonna just throw my dark souls character into nashandras arms ina  loop of pain
Jericho - 08/30/2017
It's totally fine
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
To do my example
And to change it for this very discussion
An optimist will answer my question thinking they're right no matter what.
A pessimist thinking they're wrong no matter what
A confident person simply thinks that regardless if they get it right or wrong, their life moves on.
Confidence boils down to the knowledge that things will be fine and if you want someone here who is completely confident look further than Pyon
Ultimately that's confidence. The knowledge that even if you can't complete the task
even if you fail
That you will be fine
While optimism the belief that you will succeed
Confidence is the belief that you will survive a failure(edited)
Felix - 08/30/2017
so what i was talking about was optimism
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
Thank you for time, I'm nearly off shift and I want to drink a galloon of calming tea
Yes.
and by the way confidence is both transient and situational
You can be confident in some situations and not in others
We tend to see confidence as a general life stance but that's not really true
That's assertiveness
Which naturally breeds confidence
Because it promoted a confident way of thinking
And so on
I'm out
Felix - 08/30/2017
and optimism can result in confidence which is why i saw it as the same thing ok things are clicking now
Kurotsune - 08/30/2017
And before I head off to the gym I realized I'd probably benefit from explaining why I have a specific approach to these
Namely why I come in saying y'all are wrong are going to be wrong the purpose behind that
It's actually to cause inner conflict. The only two ways I get actually get you to learn from anyone or anything is to make you doubt your current beliefs and introduce a new concept that makes sense(edited)
That's what cause your brain to go "oh shit change how we do thinking thing" and actually adapt to new knowledge otherwise you'll just disagree or repeat what I said and not understand it
When I cause an inner conflict you'll mull over it realize why it makes sense on your own me having to convince you
The other way by just letting you guys discuss and realize things on your own(edited)
and I generally only try to do the first one when I don't the think the second will get to what I want to get at
And I am completely aware that when I do that I am putting myself my ideas to exposition and scrutiny from 21 people and doing that voluntarily which means I really no right to have an emotional response
Yet I am not perfect and it still happens I fault no one but myself for that and I apologize for it but it is important for my own sake to realize when I have to take a step back and recompose
And I appreciate the understanding on this matter
Just to elaborate why I don't propose a gigantic discussion where all present our points and discuss at lengths so that the learning happens naturally
It's because I'm impatient and I want you to be the best you you can be right now and not two hours from now
So I manipulation and social engineering to cause a reaction I know will make you open to my points and trust that if I am completely wrong you will either ignore or correct me
And if that day comes, it'll suck, but I hope when it does I have the dignity to accept it and move on.