NDBS Event Guidlines - Vertex Final

Friday‎, ‎July‎ ‎20‎, ‎2018

Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎17‎:‎54
heya, just a reminder this is due tomorrow :) https://steamcommunity.com/groups/NDBattleSoc/discussions/1/3160848559788985350/
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎18‎:‎43
Nero hasn't had a chance to review it yet and i've been busy with work and other things. Not going to put my life on hold becuase you set a due date for something silly.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎18‎:‎44
Not asking you to put your life on hold, just agree to something we spent hours perfecting and you have already reviewed multiple times
‎18‎:‎45
anyway there is no reason to be agressive, it's just a polite reminder, it's been up for over 5 days
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎18‎:‎45
I'm busy hosting a team-pick event right now. Nero did not show up.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎18‎:‎47
fair enough, I'm not demanding you do it right now. Just a reminder to do it before the end of tomorrow :)
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎18‎:‎47
If I have time. Nero still hasn't had a chance to review it. Haven't talked within him recently.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎18‎:‎52
I have, he's said it looks ok. Just please agree to it. I thought 6 days was more than enough tbf and I really dont want to have to revoke anyone's access when we have put so much time and effort into it.
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎18‎:‎52
It doesn't matter if you revoke, we have anther steam group to host from.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎18‎:‎53
oh come on mate... what's happened between last week and today? are you now saying you wont agree to it?
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎19‎:‎07
Anyway, it would be great if you could. It would be such a positive step in the right direction, working to repair the rifts in the community (what's left of it) and allow more people to enjoy the game. Also, it would have been a waste of all that time we all spent creating the thing.
But it's up to you, personally I hope you do agree to it :)

‎Saturday‎, ‎July‎ ‎21‎, ‎2018

Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎07
They're going to be tons of event conflicts now, if I have to post from the Redstone group. This will just make the problem worse.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎08
It's up to you buddy, we could have worked together and we still can if you're willing to sign up to the agreement that everyone else has.
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎09
I gave an alternative to prevent event hosting conflicts and would have signed it - if it was posted.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎09
Everyone was fine with it including Erik
‎23‎:‎10
Haha don't give me that. You already asked for a complete overhaul of it twice. You would have just done the same again
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎10
We are the ones actively hosting events. You're are causing tons of damage to the Nuclear Dawn community.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎11
But anyway, I hope you do reconsider. It would be a shame for it all have gone to waste. Erik is still there so he can post events
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎12
I think moving forward, we need to post everything from the Redstone group.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎12
I'm not actually vertex, I'm trying to help it. And I hope you can find it in yourself to agree to it so we can carry on
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎12
All our core players are there anyways and there's nobody to police us.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎12
Maybe
‎23‎:‎13
Can I ask why you do this?
Why couldn't you just give it a go?
Vertex/Stickz
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‎23‎:‎14
If there's an agreement, it needs to be black and white with no room for interruption. And not one that will tie hands behind our back and say when we can and cannot post events.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎14
Everyone is getting so frustrated with your inability to work with others. Can't you just try just once?
‎23‎:‎14
The agreement is very black and white. And if it's too restrictive we can reduce that in a months time
But do you ever have more than 3 event posted at once?
Vertex/Stickz
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‎23‎:‎15
The whole strucuture needs ripped up. And 3 simple rules i've posted echo'd.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎16
We spent hours on it vertex. And what we have now YOU suggested
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎16
I did not suggest creating that agreement, other people suggested and wanted it.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎16
No, you suggested the guidelines to be changed to how they now are
Vertex/Stickz
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‎23‎:‎17
When I realized no what happen amendments were made, this was never going to work. I asked for it to be ripped up.
And posted a simple alternative that would work. And I could easy agree to.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎18
"When I realised no what happen amendments were made"?
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎18
When I realised no what amendments were mad
made
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎18
Sorry o don't know what that means
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎19
When I realised no matter what amendments were made
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎19
Ah
‎23‎:‎20
Well all I see is: I wrote first draft, you said you wouldn't agree until a lot of changes were made. We spend HOURS working through them.
We got a final version
Everyone agreed including you
Then you said actually no, you could agree to it until we completely changed get it
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎20
Nero brought up new concerns to me, that would neve rmake this structure work.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎20
Changed it*
We then spent hours changing it
We all agreed to it
I posted it
You said rip it up AGAIN
No, Nero has no concerns
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎21
It's not my problem you've never done this type of thing before. This is to be expected.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎21
He is happy with the agreement
‎23‎:‎22
That means nothing, it was you writing it
They were your amendment
Your additions
Is this the first you have done before?
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎22
I am not happy based on my conversation with Nero. Him agreeing to this doesn't change my opinion about this agreement.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎23
Fair enough. Well your new changes do not adress the concerns he raised
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎23
It's impossible to address every concern. There's always going to be a conflict.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎24
Yes I agree. And that's why we tried to put this in place
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎24
You cannot extend the scope to ecompass everything or the agreement will never pass.
‎23‎:‎26
By removing my moderator access to NDBS, I will no longer consider them an organization. And will continue to post on Saturday, regardless what they do. This action does more harm than good to the Nuclear Dawn community. Other organizations will not be able to host then.
‎23‎:‎30
We you extend your reach and try to police the hell out of people, you create more devides and do not resolve any conflicts. There is going to be more issues and more conflicts now becuase of your actions.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎36
Anyway, I gtg. You can keep telling yourself you are in right if you like. Keep telling yourself that it is everyone else's fault but yours. Everyone else is wrong. Everyone else is damaging the community.

We wanted to try something that all of us (especially Nero) thought would help the community. It saddens me that you are acting this way and you are right, you can try and sabotage everything for sake of your own pride. But I ask that you please think about the community above your own interests.

You are right, if you no longer use NDBS it will be harmful for the community due to the reduced people and possible conflict. But that is your choice to make. I didn't want to revoke your access as I knew it would cause issues, I went to great pains to avoid doing so as did Nero from the sounds of it. You put me in a tough position and I'm sorry I had to do it. Though it's not permanent and can still be reversed.

All you had to do (and still can) is agree to something that won't really negatively impact you but will go a long way to improving the community. Please don't kid yourself that this was my doing. I had people angrily demanding that I just kick you or hold a vote. This was my answer to hopefully bringing the sides together.

I ask you to reconsider, for the sake of the community.
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎39
It was better without an agreement, before you stuck your hands into the Nuclear Dawn community. Now things are going to continue going down-hill. There will be lots more conflicts in the future and less people playing. You should deeply reconsider your actions and the damage you are causing the Nuclear Dawn community. I will not let people who do not play the game to dictate how Redstone is run and populated.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎40
Maybe you're right Stickz. But that choice is entirely in your hands
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎41
We've hosted a ton of succesful events this year, now you want to come in and stop that from happening. It's a shame you've never learned from this constant policing apporach.
Sexy Iron Maiden
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‎23‎:‎41
You have hosted tons of events which is great. And I'm not doing anything to stop you from doing so
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎42
Other people have not hosted a single event this year and you're already revoking privlages. This shows a lot about your character. And the over policing.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎44
Haha ok Vertex, I won't descend into personally attack as we both know how that will go.
As I say, there is nothing in the agreement contrary to what you currently do so I don't think it's overpolicing.
But again, it's up to you
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎45
The Nuclear Dawn community does not want to be policed and I will fight tooth and nail to prevent that from happening.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎46
Well it saddens me that you are putting your own need for power above the community stickz. I hope you will reconsider and the community can continue down the positive steps that have been made
You are the only person who is against this
‎23‎:‎47
So don't think 'The community is against it'
Ah well. I really hoped it wouldn't come to this. Maybe we can resolve it in time
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎50
I do not care about power. My concern is being policed by you and giving you power. You have proven many times in the past to abuse this power when a moderator on Redstone.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎51
This agreement gives me no more power than I have already. It actually gives me less as it provides restrictions as to how I can use it
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎52
That is bs. This agreement create a framework to use your power, that you want me to agree to being policed about.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎53
If by framework you mean restrictions then yes, it gives me a framework
But ultimately I could just ignore the agreement
I have no more power because of it
Also equally you could ignore the agreement
‎23‎:‎54
With enough abuses you would have privileges revoked and be in the same position you are now. But it would be temporary as there are no permanent punishments
Also punishment are reset
Both of which are things you put in
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎55
You are not going to convice me otherwise. I do not want you policing Redstone.
‎23‎:‎56
If after many more future conflicts with other organizations, you finally want to accept the 3 rules i've proposed, let me know.
‎23‎:‎57
I need to get back to fixing some server bugs before the next event.
‎23‎:‎57
This is a huge waste of time.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎23‎:‎58
Ok Stickz. If you want to see it that way it is up to you. It's just a shame that the community will suffer for your decisions. Whether they were instigated my me or not is a separate point which I am willing to concede.
As to your 3 rulings. Maybe we'll come back to them at the next revie
Yes, you definitely have made this a huge waste of time
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎23‎:‎59
They will suffer from the decisions of someone who hasn't been actively involved with the Nuclear Dawn community for years.

‎Sunday‎, ‎July‎ ‎22‎, ‎2018

Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎00
Yup maybe. But he gave you the choice of improving things for everyone or damaging things for everyone. And still have to make that choice
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎01
I don't care about your silly agreement, the "reviews" and other political things.
I gave a framework for a place to start, you declined it, now everyone is wrose off.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎02
Fair enough. Like I say, it's up to you.
No you basically wrote the whole thing, twice
And we can change it again in a month if you would like
‎00‎:‎03
Anyway, I really get, just think about it. And think about what's best for the community not what's best for you. Cya!
Gtg*
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎04
If you want Redstone to be a part of NDBS. The whole thing needs scrapped with 3 simple rules. This is a starting place and the best you can acheive right now. Take it or leave it.
We host 80% of community events.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎05
You do, which is why it is a shame why you're not getting on board.
‎00‎:‎06
It will be sad to see the group die because you still can't work with other after 6 years of people hating you
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎06
You have hosted ZERO events in the last year and want to tell us what to do.
We are not going to die. We have our own steam group to host events from.
‎00‎:‎07
The game may not last more than a couple more years anyways. You are only accelerating it's death by your hands. So congratulations on your acomplishments.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎07
Oh Vertex, you never change :)
After 6 whole years
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎08
I should be continuing to update maps instead of argueing with someone who hasn't played the game in years.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎09
Ah well, I'll think about it in the morning. It may well be that the other group doesn't post any events in which case we will the group might as well be used for something.
I hope you are willing to think on it to
Maybe talk to Nero about it. He seems like a reasonable guy
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎11
You're finally starting to realize an agreement is no good if nobody else posts events. It's been this way for years Sexy. We've posted 80% of all events. usually more.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎12
Yes I agree mate! But that because you havnt let anyone else in. You always force them out. Which is what I am trying to stop this time
You have done amazing things for this commjnjty
Your drive and determination have kept things going for far longer than they should have
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎13
And when we agree to not post events at the same time, you turn your back and stubbornly ask for more. Nothing is going to get acomplished with your attitude.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎13
But there are others who want to help to
Eh? What are you taking about?
‎00‎:‎14
I'm just saying give it a go, if it's too restrictive we can change it. You are the one who came up with all of the complications anyway
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎14
I posted a 3 rule framework agreeing not to post events at the same time as other people. Saying I would immedinately agree to if, if you created a thread and posted it. It's better than nothing and you refused. It's kinda funny and counter-productive.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎15
Nah because there would still have needed to be the rest of the gubbins around it. That just changes a few of the guidlines
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎15
Right now we're at absoutely nothing instead of something becuase you're being subborn.
You can't try to tackle all the issues at once. 1 at a time is how to resovle things.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎16
Hahaha no way!? You didn't just say I was being stubborn...? I kept changing the agreement for hours. About 3 hours in the first run, 2 on the second. Putting all of your changes. I had to finally put a stop to it
Anyway this is getting nowhere, we can talk in the morning and maybe work out a compromise
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎17
I did not realize this stupidity was not going to work until after I talked with Nero.
‎00‎:‎18
If you want to get somewhere and stop events from being hosted at the same time... add my privlages back and post the 3 rule framework. It's better than nothing, unless you want events to run at the same time again.
‎00‎:‎18
Or you can continue to be subborn and try to tackle all the worlds problems at once. You and I both know, this will never work.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎21
I really don't see why you can't the hypocrisy here but ok. I'm very willing to compromise and change things to suit everyone's wishes. I guess we will have to try yet again later
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎22
The 3 rule framework I posted is a compromise. It's a step forward in the right direction. You are taking 2 steps backwards by doing this and it's not helping anymore.
Everyone would immedinately agree not to host events at the same time. Becuase it's better than having nothing at all. And you said "no, I want to tackle all the worlds problems at once and have 1 massive agreement."
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎24
I can see so many loopholes on your 3 lines vertex, which is precisely why we spent so long on it - you were closing all of the loopholes
‎00‎:‎25
What's to stop someone blocking out every weekend with back to back events?
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎25
There are 0 loop-holes in my 3 lines. A loop-hole is when an agrement causes more harm than good. THis is 100% beneifical.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎25
What happens if they do?
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎26
They can still do this with no agreement. My 3 lines to do change anything sexy.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎26
They could post an event every friday sarur7and Sunday for a year
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎26
A matter a fact, it makes it HARDER for them to do this. Becuase they must show up to every single event. We are very busy people and don't have time for this.
Sexy Iron Maiden
:
‎00‎:‎27
It's easy to be idle on a server, you do it all the time
I'm sure there are other loopholes
‎00‎:‎28
But anyway, I really get. I'm really sorry you are acting like this. Have a chat to Erik and see what he thinks
Gtg*
Vertex/Stickz
:
‎00‎:‎28
We have 3 event hosting days. Friday as well. We have never done this in the past, why would we start now? It's stupid and doesn't make any sense.
‎00‎:‎29
If Redstone posted an event and didn't have anyone to run it, It would damage our reptition. People would stop joining our server. We would never just post an event and idle on the server.
‎00‎:‎30
But from your point of view, we need a rule for this. Becuase the argreement needs to solve all the world's problems at once.