+AlexKing
That's not fair BadKeyMachine
+Koetsu
BadKeyMachinez: yeah i don't really let transphobia go
BadKeyMachinez
ok, well i'm done, but the last thing this is about for me is transphobia
+AlexKing
This is part of the problem, people get upset when they get called out on shitty behaviour
+stinkyfoots
you're assuming there going to go up to them and be all like. "Oh, your trans. That name's silly, what's your real name"
BadKeyMachinez
no
no no
that's not what I mean at all
I would never say 'what's you REAL name'
+stinkyfoots
then what did you mean?
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BadKeyMachinez
i mean someone has a previous life, whether your trans or cis or whatever else, and I typically ask people about that because I'm curious
+AlexKing
You're currently disrespecting a trans persons talking to you about issues that make life, well pretty unbareable, in the trans community.
+Koetsu
"a previous life" oh fuck off forever
+AlexKing
That IS transphobia
+stinkyfoots
and talking about problems is always bad
BadKeyMachinez
ok, well I'm saying I'll take your word for it
well shit, what am I supposed to say?
it doesn't exist?
+AlexKing
Transphobia is not about hating trans people, transphobia is about disrespecting them
+Enleat
.... Not ask them for their real name if they don't want to say it?
+Koetsu
stop trying to justify asking trans people for their "old name" and being an entitled shit about their past?
just a thought
BadKeyMachinez
ok, well i'm taking your word for it
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+stinkyfoots
because talking about personal stuff is always about entitlement and not intimacy
+AlexKing
Curiosity doesn't justify all questions.
BadKeyMachinez
well if that person told me 'I'm not comfortable with that' then I would never ask them again
+Tolvo
Like here's a tip, stop getting defensive. Say, "Huh, I didn't realize that I these views are transphobic, I'm going to re-evaluate my views and try to understand more and think about why what I said is transphobic."
+Koetsu
it's shitty to ask in the first place.
+AlexKing
But you shouldn't open in the first place.
+Enleat
Yeah
BadKeyMachinez
ok, then I won't ask
i'm taking your word for it
Tzse
hios!~
+AlexKing
If they want to tell you, let them but you have to consider how often shit like that happens to them everyday
+Enleat
Hey Tzse :3
+AlexKing
What I mean is; Maybe one person asking them is a minor thing but if everbody had that attitude it would build up and probably cause some major problems related to dsyphoria
(I think anybody asking them, 1 or 100 is bad)
+stinkyfoots
obviously it's a sensitive thing
but calling a situation that may occur and be normal, saying stuff like this:
This is part of the problem, people get upset when they get called out on shitty behaviour
is far worse
+AlexKing
What?
Why?
+Tolvo
Well then usually they double down and try to justify ignorant views.
+stinkyfoots
I'm saying you took a range of situations, and ignored all the chances where it could be normal, assumed it was the worst, and then went on a rally about it
+Koetsu
like it's some huge complicated thing to say "don't ask unless you already know it's okay"
+AlexKing
Normal?
+lifebaka
The issue is that "don't ask unless you already know it's okay" is already a pretty generally understood unwritten social rule.
People just kinda' ignore it when they're talking to certain groups.
+Koetsu
case in point, yeah
+stinkyfoots
yes, people can share stuff about themselves, even unpleasant stuff, without it being bad.
yeah, lifebaka
+AlexKing
Tolvo, is there anything to suggest that? Wouldn't they double down regardless?
+stinkyfoots
most people have opinions, and when they don't mesh with yours, they will probably think you're of lesser intellegence than you when you state them.
+Koetsu
stinkyfoots: that doesn't make it okay to just ask everyone whether you know them or not.
+Tolvo
I don't really consider it a double down to admit a mistake or that a view was ignorant.
+stinkyfoots
koetsu, did I say that?
I'm pretty sure I didn't
MostlyClueless
I'm having a hard time coming up with a situation where it'd be normal for a stranger to start asking that.
+stinkyfoots
key word: stranger
+AlexKing
^
BadKeyMachinez
i would enver ask it as a stranger
that would be a total dick move, no disagreement here
+Koetsu
you just looked it up for a stranger, dude
"OH WHAT'S HER REAL NAME IT'S JOSHUA"
+AlexKing
Yes
+Koetsu
don't try and cover for it.
BadKeyMachinez
i didn't say real name
so don't say that
and i didn't mean that
+AlexKing
deadnaming is pretty terrible regardless
BadKeyMachinez
and i can't look it up on google, really?
+stinkyfoots
I've said all I need to, you people are just ignoring it or making stuff up
BadKeyMachinez
her real name is Leelah, for no second did I think anything otherwise
+AlexKing
Especially considering she wanted to be remembered as Leelah
+Koetsu
like it's not ridiculously telling that the first thing you do is OH I WONDER WHAT HER BIRTH NAME IS and announce it to a chat room
BadKeyMachinez
what is it telling of, exactly?
+Koetsu
if you honestly can't figure it out at this point, you're probably never going to.
+AlexKing
1) Don't ask anybody about their deadname 2) Don't deadname or misgender her (or the person in question) in any public area [I'd hope you would avoid it private] 3) Understand that you might be one of many contributing tiny problems that add up to an unbareable weight on this persons back
BadKeyMachinez
OK, I would never do 2 or 3, I'll make it a point to be aware of 1.
I mean I understand 3
i would never do 2
+stinkyfoots
or if you're in a position where you know someone better than a bunch of people in a chat room
+AlexKing
Also don't dismiss trans people when they're educating you on a mistake like you did earlier with the "let it go" comment on koetsu
at koetsu*
(That's a huge issue I've seen over the place)
+stinkyfoots
who's only datum about a person is whether or not they're trans
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+Tolvo
Like, here's a rule I have personally that may help. Even if I don't initially understand why people from a marginalized group don't want to have people act towards them in a certain way, I respect that and then constantly try to understand.
+stinkyfoots
because god forbid you end up in that position, it would be necessary to treat them like shit, according to AlexKing
+FGC_Scrub
Morning, Sachy
BadKeyMachinez
I try to be aware of that too
+Sachyriel
morning
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MostlyClueless
You're not going to end up "In that position"
I mean there will be no bomb that needs their birth name to defuse
Just don't ask
+Tolvo
It's also important to remember that questions can be hurtful if they come from a place of ignorance, and that when you get educated on why a question is hurtful it's okay to say "Oh, I didn't think about it that way, I'm sorry."
MostlyClueless
It's not hard
+AlexKing
I never said it would be necessary to try and treat them like shit
+Koetsu
i honestly can't believe "don't deadname a trans person" is such a controversial thing that it's turned into like a half hour of GG-style justifying mental gymnastics
BadKeyMachinez
OK, I didn't think about it that way, and I'm sorry
+Koetsu
you guys have fun, i'll be back when it's less toxic
+Tolvo
Sorry Koetsu
+AlexKing
I said people get defensive when called out on problematic behaviour (with colorful language) and that is part of the problem, people unwilling to learn.
+stinkyfoots
what I said 30 minutes ago: it's almost as if broad rules rarely apply to intimate situations
I'm right, you're wrong
you're telling me how trans people can never align with normal social behaviour, and I'm the one that's problematic
+AlexKing
What?
What is "Normal"
+Enleat
Aww man Koetsu left :\
+stinkyfoots
sharing close details
MostlyClueless
So let them share. If they want to they will
+Tolvo
Also I feel I should explain, when I said constantly understand, I don't mean just asking a trans person a bunch of questions. But instead looking things up, articles by trans people, or articles by people of said group.
+stinkyfoots
yeah, I got that
what i got mad about was this:
er
+Sachyriel
https://www.reddit.com/r/itsaunixsystem/comments/2r45bb/directly_off_fbigov/
+stinkyfoots
can't find the example
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ⓘ LiterallyWho set mode +v celocanth13
+stinkyfoots
but yeah, obviously it's dumb to ask someone personal stuff that they're trying to get away from
but trying to dictate someones behavior for all occurrences get under my skin
don't ask someone's age
don't go over and touch the pregnant woman's belly
good stuff
don't ever ask someones age you crazy ageist
is crazy town
+Tolvo
When people say don't do X, they also generally mean "Unless you know they're okay with it."
+stinkyfoots
lol yeah, I said that and they got angry about it.
or if you're in a position where you know someone better than a bunch of people in a chat room
who's only datum about a person is whether or not they're trans
+AlexKing
What?
I don't understand what you are trying to say with the last bit
+Tolvo
Yeah I've kind of lost where this conversation has gone.
+stinkyfoots
I just repeated what you said Tolvo
datum is the singular of data
+AlexKing
Yeah but what are you trying to say
+stinkyfoots
When people say don't do X, they also generally mean "Unless you know they're okay with it."
+AlexKing
Okay so what does your last two lines mean? Is it another "Unless if you're in a posoition etc"
MostlyClueless
I still think you shouldn't ask at all. If they want to tell you they will of their own volition, your curiosity doesn't really rate much.
Exceptions work for some rules but this ones pretty iron
+AlexKing
Yeah
+rAnnouncer
/r/GamerGhazi: <cadrpear> Some more twaddle about le SJWs ( http://redd.it/2r4dvl ) [ notehub.org ]
+AlexKing
It was still pretty bad to tell Koetsu to "let it go" also
+Tolvo
Yeah, I can think of plenty of things where I'd say "Yeah never ask person X" and I'd get frustrated if I heard people say "Well what about this situation?"
BadKeyMachinez
that was lame you're right
+Enleat
Yeah
BadKeyMachinez
i apologize for that
+stinkyfoots
the entire conversation was about misunderstandings
BadKeyMachinez
yeah
+stinkyfoots
there are no iron rules,
+AlexKing
Should jump in to mention to now
+stinkyfoots
only shutins talk like that
+Tolvo
I think there are totally things which are cases of "Yeah don't do this ever."
+AlexKing
See this is a pretty simple issue regarding the trans community and we (I believe all cis?) people complicated, now throw that in a top a lot of the more complicated issues.
MostlyClueless
I don't get why it's hard to not ask
+stinkyfoots
it isn't
+AlexKing
and dealing with that everyday, along with chans trying to do the suici-genocide
+stinkyfoots
the 'don't do this ever' thing bothered me
MostlyClueless
Why?
It's a shit thing to do, don't do it
+AlexKing
Yeah
+stinkyfoots
because it's not treating people like people
+AlexKing
Like don't wish cancer on someone either
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+stinkyfoots
but some alien species that can't be understand, and you must listen to my tribal knowledeg
+AlexKing
What?
MostlyClueless
This isn't exactly esoteric knowledge
+AlexKing
trans people are tribes
aren't*
+stinkyfoots
it is when you take it the extreme
+Enleat
I feel bad for Koetsu
+stinkyfoots
and I'd say most people should disagree with it
+lifebaka
Maybe let's talk about something else instead? Like what all people got in the Steam sale or something?
BadKeyMachinez
i got The Fall
@Geary
http://ra-ttarie.tumblr.com/post/106916794802/lingering-nomad-the-most-epic-of-sweeps-by
+FGC_Scrub
I bought Ultra SFIV.
That's the extent of my steam purchases
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+Enleat
Well this was a really charged IRC for a few minutes there....
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ⓘ LiterallyWho set mode +v DesertFox899
+DesertFox899
Oh dear what did i walk into.
BadKeyMachinez
a bit of a spat!
+rAnnouncer
/r/GamerGhazi: <A_Fhaol_Bhig> GG: We number in the millions! The millions I tell you! ( http://redd.it/2r4fbm ) [ self.GamerGhazi ]
+DesertFox899
Oh dear
+stinkyfoots
even tolvo got it
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→ Tzse has joined
MostlyClueless
Been really enjoying The Long Dark
Even if all wolves are dirtbags.
+stinkyfoots
I'm writing fanfiction!
+AlexKing
THE FOREST
Can't wait till I get my new pc to play it
I really like some of the Monsters design
Tzse
16 episodes left to catch...
I need two screens so I can play proper games while watching
tetris is probably bad for my carpal tunnels
+rAnnouncer
/r/GamerGhazi: <theoneisback> Have the Social Justice Warriors lost? ( http://redd.it/2r4h63 ) [ self.GamerGhazi ]
+Sachyriel
finished hot chocolate so now coffee
+Sachyriel
ban that new sub
+rAnnouncer
/r/GamerGhazi: <TraumaSwing> Why Critics Are Important ( http://redd.it/2r4hcl ) [ simplikation.com ]
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Tzse
"Seriously, demonize the most diverse demographic and dehumanize them while also anti-GG making tweets wanting a genocide of all gamers."
\o/
+rAnnouncer
/r/GamerGhazi: <DistantGlimmer> Welcome to the new SJW Gaming Femipocalypse! 419 upcoming games described by RPS... ( http://redd.it/2r4hwy ) [ rockpapershotgun.com ]
Tzse
in fairness I have been killing for gamers to be exterminated totally seriously for some time
MostlyClueless
Guillitones will be requries.
Tzse
too slow
unless it's a really big multiperson guillotine
or one with a uh
conveyer b elt
+stinkyfoots
showers
+ZombieL
killing for?
calling for?
ZombieL [ZombieL!dent@user/ZombieL] * ZombieL
Channels: +#GGhazi %#Sweden @#svenskpolitik
Connected to server: diocletian.snoonet.org Snoonet Client Leaf
Logged in as ZombieL
is a registered nick
Idle for 00:00:05, signed on 01/02/2015
throwayfurther
why was aliens: colonial marines removed from steam?
if anyone knows?
+DesertFox899
xD
Its a rip off
Thats why
+FGC_Scrub
The license most likely expired.
Wait to see if it gets delisted from XBL or PSN.
throwayfurther
alright
Tzse
calling for
see
I'm just so into killing gamers
MostlyClueless
I'm pretty much in it for the murder
+Enleat
BRB
Tzse
he's feeding the gamer tied up in his basement
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+Sachyriel
my computer needs new thermal paste but I dun wanna go anywhere
+stinkyfoots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iQB4du2SpQ
+EDI
(stinkyfoots) Luna hopping - length 10m - 2,312 likes, 55 dislikes (97.7%) - 157,261 views - EqAmRd on 2012.02.26
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@Geary
!kickban stinkyfoots
× You have been kicked by LiterallyWho (Requested (Geary))
× You are banned from #GGhazi. Cannot join channel (You're banned)
stinkyfoots
alexking
== Cannot send message to channel, you are not voiced

I'll say straight up, I get treated worse for being jewish than any of the shitlordy communities.