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Jan 2nd, 2015
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  1. +AlexKing
  2. That's not fair BadKeyMachine
  3. +Koetsu
  4. BadKeyMachinez: yeah i don't really let transphobia go
  5. BadKeyMachinez
  6. ok, well i'm done, but the last thing this is about for me is transphobia
  7. +AlexKing
  8. This is part of the problem, people get upset when they get called out on shitty behaviour
  9. +stinkyfoots
  10. you're assuming there going to go up to them and be all like. "Oh, your trans. That name's silly, what's your real name"
  11. BadKeyMachinez
  12. no
  13. no no
  14. that's not what I mean at all
  15. I would never say 'what's you REAL name'
  16. +stinkyfoots
  17. then what did you mean?
  18. → Fans has joined
  19. BadKeyMachinez
  20. i mean someone has a previous life, whether your trans or cis or whatever else, and I typically ask people about that because I'm curious
  21. +AlexKing
  22. You're currently disrespecting a trans persons talking to you about issues that make life, well pretty unbareable, in the trans community.
  23. +Koetsu
  24. "a previous life" oh fuck off forever
  25. +AlexKing
  26. That IS transphobia
  27. +stinkyfoots
  28. and talking about problems is always bad
  29. BadKeyMachinez
  30. ok, well I'm saying I'll take your word for it
  31. well shit, what am I supposed to say?
  32. it doesn't exist?
  33. +AlexKing
  34. Transphobia is not about hating trans people, transphobia is about disrespecting them
  35. +Enleat
  36. .... Not ask them for their real name if they don't want to say it?
  37. +Koetsu
  38. stop trying to justify asking trans people for their "old name" and being an entitled shit about their past?
  39. just a thought
  40. BadKeyMachinez
  41. ok, well i'm taking your word for it
  42. ⓘ Fans is now known as MostlyClueless
  43. → Tzse has joined
  44. +stinkyfoots
  45. because talking about personal stuff is always about entitlement and not intimacy
  46. +AlexKing
  47. Curiosity doesn't justify all questions.
  48. BadKeyMachinez
  49. well if that person told me 'I'm not comfortable with that' then I would never ask them again
  50. +Tolvo
  51. Like here's a tip, stop getting defensive. Say, "Huh, I didn't realize that I these views are transphobic, I'm going to re-evaluate my views and try to understand more and think about why what I said is transphobic."
  52. +Koetsu
  53. it's shitty to ask in the first place.
  54. +AlexKing
  55. But you shouldn't open in the first place.
  56. +Enleat
  57. Yeah
  58. BadKeyMachinez
  59. ok, then I won't ask
  60. i'm taking your word for it
  61. Tzse
  62. hios!~
  63. +AlexKing
  64. If they want to tell you, let them but you have to consider how often shit like that happens to them everyday
  65. +Enleat
  66. Hey Tzse :3
  67. +AlexKing
  68. What I mean is; Maybe one person asking them is a minor thing but if everbody had that attitude it would build up and probably cause some major problems related to dsyphoria
  69. (I think anybody asking them, 1 or 100 is bad)
  70. +stinkyfoots
  71. obviously it's a sensitive thing
  72. but calling a situation that may occur and be normal, saying stuff like this:
  73. This is part of the problem, people get upset when they get called out on shitty behaviour
  74. is far worse
  75. +AlexKing
  76. What?
  77. Why?
  78. +Tolvo
  79. Well then usually they double down and try to justify ignorant views.
  80. +stinkyfoots
  81. I'm saying you took a range of situations, and ignored all the chances where it could be normal, assumed it was the worst, and then went on a rally about it
  82. +Koetsu
  83. like it's some huge complicated thing to say "don't ask unless you already know it's okay"
  84. +AlexKing
  85. Normal?
  86. +lifebaka
  87. The issue is that "don't ask unless you already know it's okay" is already a pretty generally understood unwritten social rule.
  88. People just kinda' ignore it when they're talking to certain groups.
  89. +Koetsu
  90. case in point, yeah
  91. +stinkyfoots
  92. yes, people can share stuff about themselves, even unpleasant stuff, without it being bad.
  93. yeah, lifebaka
  94. +AlexKing
  95. Tolvo, is there anything to suggest that? Wouldn't they double down regardless?
  96. +stinkyfoots
  97. most people have opinions, and when they don't mesh with yours, they will probably think you're of lesser intellegence than you when you state them.
  98. +Koetsu
  99. stinkyfoots: that doesn't make it okay to just ask everyone whether you know them or not.
  100. +Tolvo
  101. I don't really consider it a double down to admit a mistake or that a view was ignorant.
  102. +stinkyfoots
  103. koetsu, did I say that?
  104. I'm pretty sure I didn't
  105. MostlyClueless
  106. I'm having a hard time coming up with a situation where it'd be normal for a stranger to start asking that.
  107. +stinkyfoots
  108. key word: stranger
  109. +AlexKing
  110. ^
  111. BadKeyMachinez
  112. i would enver ask it as a stranger
  113. that would be a total dick move, no disagreement here
  114. +Koetsu
  115. you just looked it up for a stranger, dude
  117. +AlexKing
  118. Yes
  119. +Koetsu
  120. don't try and cover for it.
  121. BadKeyMachinez
  122. i didn't say real name
  123. so don't say that
  124. and i didn't mean that
  125. +AlexKing
  126. deadnaming is pretty terrible regardless
  127. BadKeyMachinez
  128. and i can't look it up on google, really?
  129. +stinkyfoots
  130. I've said all I need to, you people are just ignoring it or making stuff up
  131. BadKeyMachinez
  132. her real name is Leelah, for no second did I think anything otherwise
  133. +AlexKing
  134. Especially considering she wanted to be remembered as Leelah
  135. +Koetsu
  136. like it's not ridiculously telling that the first thing you do is OH I WONDER WHAT HER BIRTH NAME IS and announce it to a chat room
  137. BadKeyMachinez
  138. what is it telling of, exactly?
  139. +Koetsu
  140. if you honestly can't figure it out at this point, you're probably never going to.
  141. +AlexKing
  142. 1) Don't ask anybody about their deadname 2) Don't deadname or misgender her (or the person in question) in any public area [I'd hope you would avoid it private] 3) Understand that you might be one of many contributing tiny problems that add up to an unbareable weight on this persons back
  143. BadKeyMachinez
  144. OK, I would never do 2 or 3, I'll make it a point to be aware of 1.
  145. I mean I understand 3
  146. i would never do 2
  147. +stinkyfoots
  148. or if you're in a position where you know someone better than a bunch of people in a chat room
  149. +AlexKing
  150. Also don't dismiss trans people when they're educating you on a mistake like you did earlier with the "let it go" comment on koetsu
  151. at koetsu*
  152. (That's a huge issue I've seen over the place)
  153. +stinkyfoots
  154. who's only datum about a person is whether or not they're trans
  155. → Sachyriel has joined
  156. ⓘ LiterallyWho set mode +v Sachyriel
  157. +Tolvo
  158. Like, here's a rule I have personally that may help. Even if I don't initially understand why people from a marginalized group don't want to have people act towards them in a certain way, I respect that and then constantly try to understand.
  159. +stinkyfoots
  160. because god forbid you end up in that position, it would be necessary to treat them like shit, according to AlexKing
  161. +FGC_Scrub
  162. Morning, Sachy
  163. BadKeyMachinez
  164. I try to be aware of that too
  165. +Sachyriel
  166. morning
  167. → throwayfurther has joined
  168. MostlyClueless
  169. You're not going to end up "In that position"
  170. I mean there will be no bomb that needs their birth name to defuse
  171. Just don't ask
  172. +Tolvo
  173. It's also important to remember that questions can be hurtful if they come from a place of ignorance, and that when you get educated on why a question is hurtful it's okay to say "Oh, I didn't think about it that way, I'm sorry."
  174. MostlyClueless
  175. It's not hard
  176. +AlexKing
  177. I never said it would be necessary to try and treat them like shit
  178. +Koetsu
  179. i honestly can't believe "don't deadname a trans person" is such a controversial thing that it's turned into like a half hour of GG-style justifying mental gymnastics
  180. BadKeyMachinez
  181. OK, I didn't think about it that way, and I'm sorry
  182. +Koetsu
  183. you guys have fun, i'll be back when it's less toxic
  184. +Tolvo
  185. Sorry Koetsu
  186. +AlexKing
  187. I said people get defensive when called out on problematic behaviour (with colorful language) and that is part of the problem, people unwilling to learn.
  188. +stinkyfoots
  189. what I said 30 minutes ago: it's almost as if broad rules rarely apply to intimate situations
  190. I'm right, you're wrong
  191. you're telling me how trans people can never align with normal social behaviour, and I'm the one that's problematic
  192. +AlexKing
  193. What?
  194. What is "Normal"
  195. +Enleat
  196. Aww man Koetsu left :\
  197. +stinkyfoots
  198. sharing close details
  199. MostlyClueless
  200. So let them share. If they want to they will
  201. +Tolvo
  202. Also I feel I should explain, when I said constantly understand, I don't mean just asking a trans person a bunch of questions. But instead looking things up, articles by trans people, or articles by people of said group.
  203. +stinkyfoots
  204. yeah, I got that
  205. what i got mad about was this:
  206. er
  207. +Sachyriel
  209. +stinkyfoots
  210. can't find the example
  211. → celocanth13 has joined
  212. ⓘ LiterallyWho set mode +v celocanth13
  213. +stinkyfoots
  214. but yeah, obviously it's dumb to ask someone personal stuff that they're trying to get away from
  215. but trying to dictate someones behavior for all occurrences get under my skin
  216. don't ask someone's age
  217. don't go over and touch the pregnant woman's belly
  218. good stuff
  219. don't ever ask someones age you crazy ageist
  220. is crazy town
  221. +Tolvo
  222. When people say don't do X, they also generally mean "Unless you know they're okay with it."
  223. +stinkyfoots
  224. lol yeah, I said that and they got angry about it.
  225. or if you're in a position where you know someone better than a bunch of people in a chat room
  226. who's only datum about a person is whether or not they're trans
  227. +AlexKing
  228. What?
  229. I don't understand what you are trying to say with the last bit
  230. +Tolvo
  231. Yeah I've kind of lost where this conversation has gone.
  232. +stinkyfoots
  233. I just repeated what you said Tolvo
  234. datum is the singular of data
  235. +AlexKing
  236. Yeah but what are you trying to say
  237. +stinkyfoots
  238. When people say don't do X, they also generally mean "Unless you know they're okay with it."
  239. +AlexKing
  240. Okay so what does your last two lines mean? Is it another "Unless if you're in a posoition etc"
  241. MostlyClueless
  242. I still think you shouldn't ask at all. If they want to tell you they will of their own volition, your curiosity doesn't really rate much.
  243. Exceptions work for some rules but this ones pretty iron
  244. +AlexKing
  245. Yeah
  246. +rAnnouncer
  247. /r/GamerGhazi: <cadrpear> Some more twaddle about le SJWs ( ) [ ]
  248. +AlexKing
  249. It was still pretty bad to tell Koetsu to "let it go" also
  250. +Tolvo
  251. Yeah, I can think of plenty of things where I'd say "Yeah never ask person X" and I'd get frustrated if I heard people say "Well what about this situation?"
  252. BadKeyMachinez
  253. that was lame you're right
  254. +Enleat
  255. Yeah
  256. BadKeyMachinez
  257. i apologize for that
  258. +stinkyfoots
  259. the entire conversation was about misunderstandings
  260. BadKeyMachinez
  261. yeah
  262. +stinkyfoots
  263. there are no iron rules,
  264. +AlexKing
  265. Should jump in to mention to now
  266. +stinkyfoots
  267. only shutins talk like that
  268. +Tolvo
  269. I think there are totally things which are cases of "Yeah don't do this ever."
  270. +AlexKing
  271. See this is a pretty simple issue regarding the trans community and we (I believe all cis?) people complicated, now throw that in a top a lot of the more complicated issues.
  272. MostlyClueless
  273. I don't get why it's hard to not ask
  274. +stinkyfoots
  275. it isn't
  276. +AlexKing
  277. and dealing with that everyday, along with chans trying to do the suici-genocide
  278. +stinkyfoots
  279. the 'don't do this ever' thing bothered me
  280. MostlyClueless
  281. Why?
  282. It's a shit thing to do, don't do it
  283. +AlexKing
  284. Yeah
  285. +stinkyfoots
  286. because it's not treating people like people
  287. +AlexKing
  288. Like don't wish cancer on someone either
  289. ← Social_Justice_Krampus has quit (Quit: - A hand crafted IRC client)
  290. +stinkyfoots
  291. but some alien species that can't be understand, and you must listen to my tribal knowledeg
  292. +AlexKing
  293. What?
  294. MostlyClueless
  295. This isn't exactly esoteric knowledge
  296. +AlexKing
  297. trans people are tribes
  298. aren't*
  299. +stinkyfoots
  300. it is when you take it the extreme
  301. +Enleat
  302. I feel bad for Koetsu
  303. +stinkyfoots
  304. and I'd say most people should disagree with it
  305. +lifebaka
  306. Maybe let's talk about something else instead? Like what all people got in the Steam sale or something?
  307. BadKeyMachinez
  308. i got The Fall
  309. @Geary
  311. +FGC_Scrub
  312. I bought Ultra SFIV.
  313. That's the extent of my steam purchases
  314. ← rarebit has quit (Quit: - A hand crafted IRC client)
  315. +Enleat
  316. Well this was a really charged IRC for a few minutes there....
  317. → DesertFox899 has joined
  318. ⓘ LiterallyWho set mode +v DesertFox899
  319. +DesertFox899
  320. Oh dear what did i walk into.
  321. BadKeyMachinez
  322. a bit of a spat!
  323. +rAnnouncer
  324. /r/GamerGhazi: <A_Fhaol_Bhig> GG: We number in the millions! The millions I tell you! ( ) [ self.GamerGhazi ]
  325. +DesertFox899
  326. Oh dear
  327. +stinkyfoots
  328. even tolvo got it
  329. ← Tzse has quit (Quit: - A hand crafted IRC client)
  330. → Tzse has joined
  331. MostlyClueless
  332. Been really enjoying The Long Dark
  333. Even if all wolves are dirtbags.
  334. +stinkyfoots
  335. I'm writing fanfiction!
  336. +AlexKing
  338. Can't wait till I get my new pc to play it
  339. I really like some of the Monsters design
  340. Tzse
  341. 16 episodes left to catch...
  342. I need two screens so I can play proper games while watching
  343. tetris is probably bad for my carpal tunnels
  344. +rAnnouncer
  345. /r/GamerGhazi: <theoneisback> Have the Social Justice Warriors lost? ( ) [ self.GamerGhazi ]
  346. +Sachyriel
  347. finished hot chocolate so now coffee
  348. +Sachyriel
  349. ban that new sub
  350. +rAnnouncer
  351. /r/GamerGhazi: <TraumaSwing> Why Critics Are Important ( ) [ ]
  352. → ZenOfDesign has joined
  353. Tzse
  354. "Seriously, demonize the most diverse demographic and dehumanize them while also anti-GG making tweets wanting a genocide of all gamers."
  355. \o/
  356. +rAnnouncer
  357. /r/GamerGhazi: <DistantGlimmer> Welcome to the new SJW Gaming Femipocalypse! 419 upcoming games described by RPS... ( ) [ ]
  358. Tzse
  359. in fairness I have been killing for gamers to be exterminated totally seriously for some time
  360. MostlyClueless
  361. Guillitones will be requries.
  362. Tzse
  363. too slow
  364. unless it's a really big multiperson guillotine
  365. or one with a uh
  366. conveyer b elt
  367. +stinkyfoots
  368. showers
  369. +ZombieL
  370. killing for?
  371. calling for?
  372. ZombieL [ZombieL!dent@user/ZombieL] * ZombieL
  373. Channels: +#GGhazi %#Sweden @#svenskpolitik
  374. Connected to server: Snoonet Client Leaf
  375. Logged in as ZombieL
  376. is a registered nick
  377. Idle for 00:00:05, signed on 01/02/2015
  378. throwayfurther
  379. why was aliens: colonial marines removed from steam?
  380. if anyone knows?
  381. +DesertFox899
  382. xD
  383. Its a rip off
  384. Thats why
  385. +FGC_Scrub
  386. The license most likely expired.
  387. Wait to see if it gets delisted from XBL or PSN.
  388. throwayfurther
  389. alright
  390. Tzse
  391. calling for
  392. see
  393. I'm just so into killing gamers
  394. MostlyClueless
  395. I'm pretty much in it for the murder
  396. +Enleat
  397. BRB
  398. Tzse
  399. he's feeding the gamer tied up in his basement
  400. → Shinan has joined
  401. +Sachyriel
  402. my computer needs new thermal paste but I dun wanna go anywhere
  403. +stinkyfoots
  405. +EDI
  406. (stinkyfoots) Luna hopping - length 10m - 2,312 likes, 55 dislikes (97.7%) - 157,261 views - EqAmRd on 2012.02.26
  407. → pawsecution has joined
  408. @Geary
  409. !kickban stinkyfoots
  410. × You have been kicked by LiterallyWho (Requested (Geary))
  411. × You are banned from #GGhazi. Cannot join channel (You're banned)
  412. stinkyfoots
  413. alexking
  414. == Cannot send message to channel, you are not voiced
  416. I'll say straight up, I get treated worse for being jewish than any of the shitlordy communities.
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