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  1. James Winter
  2. James
  3. Hey man what's up?
  4. David
  5. ayo
  6. James Winter
  7. James
  8. Sorry I had flat passed out when you messaged
  9. What's up
  10. David
  11. i was just curious how you felt about the new guys
  12. other than worrying about not raiding next week
  13. feels pretty promising atm, there are a lot of guilds dissolving all over
  14. James Winter
  15. James
  16. I'm assuming Elricc conveyed all that him and I talked about?
  17. David
  18. I didn't know you guys talked
  19. James Winter
  20. James
  21. Yeah we were talking while you had the 2nd/3rd officer meeting
  22. David
  23. kik
  24. lol
  25. someones always dragging us xd
  26. James Winter
  27. James
  28. Honestly I had no problem with most of them. I mean other than when they'd get each other going they were fine.
  29. I absolutely hate the new Warlock
  30. David
  31. yeah I was actually on the same boat.  I missed last night though, or last evening
  32. oh dude
  33. that warlock
  34. was not supposed to come lol
  35. since he transferred here after elricc told him nevermind....he's first on the bench unless he really turns things around
  36. James Winter
  37. James
  38. Has he been told that he wasn't to come over?
  39. Because if not I will
  40. But, going back to the topic. I just felt it was handled poorly on both sides.
  41. David
  42. eh, I feel you but at the same time we'd say little things to them and it'd get turned into memes
  43. James Winter
  44. James
  45. Felt that ultimately there was a bit of hypocrisy in the end.
  46. David
  47. oh
  48. how so
  49. James Winter
  50. James
  51. Well, let me link the screen shot I grabbed from their discord
  52. David
  53. I have to say, I didn't expect it to happen.  I think no one had a problem with Zexan or Adept.  Or even Olson/Shaly
  54. James Winter
  55. James
  56.  
  57. David
  58. when they were separate that is
  59. James Winter
  60. James
  61. Their comment about rape though wrong...
  62. Very wrong
  63. Isn't any different from how we talk or other people talk in the guild
  64. David
  65. yeah, pretty messed up.  luckily I didn't see it
  66. James Winter
  67. James
  68. But that's the thing... people talk about that shit all the time regarding people in the guild
  69. And nothing gets said
  70. But when they did it everyone lost it
  71. David
  72. the rapey stuff?  I don't think it's ever taken seriously lol
  73. James Winter
  74. James
  75. Well... then why was it
  76. With them
  77. David
  78. but when someone is talking about raping a female and specifically naming the husband who is also in the guild...that's where it gets kinda dark
  79. I mean on discord it's obviously in jest, I've never really paid too much attention to it.  Just background noise
  80. that whole rapey thing though
  81. that wasn't even why they were kicked
  82. James Winter
  83. James
  84. Well, now I'm hearing 2 different things... you're saying it's not. And Elricc said it was and if they hadn't been kicked people aka Val, ruku and kruelos would have left. Which is childish
  85. When they simply can just ignore them
  86. David
  87. yeah, they had said that long before today
  88. 2 others as well were really iffy
  89. James Winter
  90. James
  91. So, personally all that rape shit and just random butt sex shit should just stop. If it's going to be taken seriously randomly
  92. David
  93. I don't know, there's a big difference to me between two dudes that know each other joking about the gay stuff and someone saying it in private
  94. no one has ever had a problem with it
  95. or said anything
  96. James Winter
  97. James
  98. Bro people talk shit and say shit to people in secret all the time
  99. David
  100. eh that's going to happen
  101. can't stop or worry about that
  102. James Winter
  103. James
  104. Like, that message you shot shaly and them basically asking them to make the warlock quit
  105. How would that have gone over
  106. David
  107. to olson
  108. James Winter
  109. James
  110. Whoever it was. It's the point of people saying stuff in private
  111. And no one ever says anything about it because typically when they do, it gets turned into a joke.
  112. David
  113. I get where you're coming from, but I want to be clear.  That's not why they were kicked.  I let people know I did it.  He wasn't even going to be ginvited but Pos did it because he got on that morning and didn't know
  114. James Winter
  115. James
  116. I don't even go to people for help anymore but I'll whisper the person and tell them to chill the fuck out
  117. And says it's uncalled for
  118. David
  119. anytime we said anything to them it just became a meme, that's fine.  It just did not work in our environment.  It was literally one thing after another.  We'd hoped that it would eventually work out once we raided together more and people got a little more familiar
  120. midway during week two we were looking to replace an officer with one of them to integrate them into the group a bit more
  121. give them a voice since they were such a big part of the raid
  122. James Winter
  123. James
  124. You'd promote them before me? The fuck
  125. David
  126. and they ruined that for themselves
  127. James Winter
  128. James
  129. Now I'm pissed
  130. Kidding... about being pissed
  131. David
  132. lol
  133. I didn't even know how to respond to that, like uhh 😉
  134. James Winter
  135. James
  136. But about thinking to promote them before me. I'm salty bro
  137. David
  138. eh, the point of it was to make them a part of us.  We were feeling them out and it got thrown out after all the minor incidents
  139. James Winter
  140. James
  141. Shit needs to change. Ultimately. We need to raid efficient and get good dps to do so. I know you'll say that you and Elricc are recruiting but we can't keep going through this bullshit week after week.
  142. I want to get realm first and stuff but we aren't gonna get it if we kick people who just have attitude issues
  143. David
  144. well you know, our bench quit and we had how many people have rl issues this week
  145. James Winter
  146. James
  147. Yeah yeah
  148. David
  149. it was more than just an attitude issue, it sucks to kick them
  150. yeah yeah what?
  151. lol
  152. James Winter
  153. James
  154. No I was agreeing with what you said
  155. David
  156. we just ripped off the bandaid.  We could've just made everyone stick it out until Tomb
  157. James Winter
  158. James
  159. I wouldn't have had a problem with it.
  160. And more than likely the only way those 2 found out about the screen shot that was posted was probably from one of the officers and/or senzy whispering ruku when I had told you
  161. David
  162. ruku and kreulos don't even know what was said
  163. James Winter
  164. James
  165. There's such a lack in communication....
  166. David
  167. ?
  168. James Winter
  169. James
  170. And/or just a big miscommunication
  171. Well, again you and Elricc say 2 different things
  172. David
  173. whatever elricc said, that's not what was talked about
  174. when we decided this
  175. James Winter
  176. James
  177. Then, why were they kicked ultimately?
  178. Other than the meme
  179. David
  180. because shaly and olson are toxic as fuck and it was never going to work long term
  181. Everytime people started to feel differently, they did something else.
  182. James Winter
  183. James
  184. It's because they called shit out.
  185. I hate that pussy footing around
  186. Like I get that you guys think that it's the officers job to do everything
  187. But you can't make it your job to do everything
  188. David
  189. called what out?
  190. you're making some big assumptions here
  191. James Winter
  192. James
  193. If I see someone fuck up im gonna call the person out and/or whisper them
  194. David
  195. that stuff is fine, it irritates people but that can just be ignored
  196. James Winter
  197. James
  198. And if it keeps happening I'll bring it to one of y'all
  199. David
  200. that's fine and they did to anna and I didn't care because it wasn't malicious
  201. James Winter
  202. James
  203. But it gets treated as such by everyone else
  204. The environment when they whispered her during star auger and she went afk to chill out pissed people off because they assumed they just laid into her
  205. David
  206. what are you talking about
  207. she was feeling sick from the meds
  208. and went outside to physically cool down
  209. James Winter
  210. James
  211. Right, I understand that because I knew that...
  212. Most didn't
  213. People who I was in party with were literally talking about how those "new guys" were probably giving her shit again
  214. And making her upset
  215. It doesn't really matter at this point. They're gone now, and we're to recruit for next week and hopefully tomb
  216. David
  217. if people thought that oh well, I don't get your point there
  218. James Winter
  219. James
  220. The point is that people were basically channeling their frustration and agitation towards them without knowing the facts. Or at least all of them.
  221. They easily could have just fully muted them and it would have been fine
  222. But, as we discussed bandwagoning with friends happened when people started getting upset
  223. David
  224. It would've just kept happening with more people
  225. James Winter
  226. James
  227. And shit rolled down hill
  228. David
  229. every week it was someone else
  230. James Winter
  231. James
  232. That's because they wanted people to play better
  233. You see that shit in any guild you watch
  234. Like I'm sure you aware of how annoying it is to have to teach people how to do mechanics every week
  235. Over and over
  236. Like, when I messed up star auger that night I wanted to quit right here and log off because I was ashamed how bad I messed up
  237. They wanted people to play better
  238. Their tactfulness was just shit
  239. David
  240. sure I get frustrated
  241. but I know raging about it over discord isn't going to make anyone play better
  242. James Winter
  243. James
  244. Well, again, something's gotta fix it. And not denouncing what you guys do in private meetings or whatever. But sometimes people when they hear it from peers rather than "higher ups" it carries more weight
  245. David
  246. I have to take a shower and get ready to go, but we'll talk about it more later.  There wasn't any particular event that caused this.  They did nothing to help themselves.  I've never been in a raiding guild where people don't talk shit, it's just a part of it.  But if you don't think some of the shit they did was excessive you're crazy
  247. James Winter
  248. James
  249. The only thing I found excessive was them posting meme's in the General channel. When they were given their meme section I was fine
  250. I can block annoying people out
  251. David
  252. we had petty complaints and it's pretty easy to see when someone was just being sensitive because they're already annoyed or frustrated with them
  253. James Winter
  254. James
  255. I suppose.
  256. David
  257. shaly is a ridiculously good player, I mean they all were
  258. i wish it didn't come to this, I was really frustrated with them for a while but I was warming up.
  259. James Winter
  260. James
  261. But alright man go shower. And work. I'll be home later with discord open but might not be on much gonna work on some school stuff
  262. David
  263. word, if I see you on discord when I'm driving I'll pop on for a bit
  264. James Winter
  265. James
  266. Did y'all talk about me last night at all during any of your meetings
  267. 8:25AM
  268.  
  269. David
  270. No
  271. 6:04PM
  272.  
  273. David
  274. why are you so defensive of them all the sudden?  If anyones being a hypocrite it seems to have been you
  275. reflecting back on some things and reread this a tad
  276. i don't know what you're thinking or what you're aiming to do but it's not very productive lol
  277. James Winter
  278. James
  279. I was just defensive because people like we discussed earlier were going back and forth with them and how they felt about them... it wasn't by any means only one person from their group.
  280. I guess I'm just overly defensive because now I'm worried about this guild being able to bounce back quickly.
  281. I've invested so much into this guild... literally I've given a shit load.
  282. I was over it until you brought it back up
  283. Lol
  284. David
  285. yeah because I just looked back through it and it's so fucking stupid dude
  286. James Winter
  287. James
  288. I know there was a lot of random babble and round about conversations
  289. Also, I will not be online tonight. Going out for dinner.
  290. What's the gist of the meeting?
  291. David
  292. your entire argument sucks and im getting pissed re-reading it
  293. they weren't kicked because people didn't like them
  294. they were kicked because of their own actions and attitude
  295. they were given plenty of time
  296. they ruined it for themselves
  297. I don't remember anyone ever joking or talking about rape
  298. until they did
  299. all i know and I constantly see you trying to get into other people's business and the glimpses you get you seem to just form full on conclusions based on that information
  300. James Winter
  301. James
  302. I don't go in blind man... I knew and know quite a lot. And I go back to what I kept saying this morning every time you brought the counter argument. That there's 2 different stories. So that in itself is annoying. Yeah, we can go back and forth about it. But there's no point. It's not something I have any ability to fix. Nor do I want to even revisit. They deserve what they got. Imo purely based on what I heard... the memes were childish... yeah. But my tolerance for annoyance form my job is apparently quite high compared to others.
  303. James Winter
  304. James
  305. 2 different stories meaning what Elricc told me. And what you're telling me. But again, not too sure why we went ahead and revisited this... lol
  306. Like I said. My major concern is Tuesday and going back into mythic and being able to go 8/10 with progress next week
  307. Seen by James Winter at 6:24pm
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