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DEv convo on IRC about PBS

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  1. *** [M2S]Obi_Wan_Kenobi [7cb4f86c@perpetuum-online.com] has joined #perpetuum
  2. *** Topic is: http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:Latest
  3. *** Topic set by GargajCNS!gargaj@dsl54029B3F.pool.t-online.hu [Thu Feb  2 11:03:04 2012]
  4. *** Yoslin Trap_Card1 Dredi Shaedys [NeX]Dazamin [TOG]VexD @GargajCNS [CHAOS]Alexadar tex AgY [WAR]Dan^afk [eHarm]Arga Lilianna [TOG]Sheriff [eHarm]Sundial Texnik Planner_Bot df @TinkerBot herewego mike [M2S]Obi_Wan_Kenobi
  5. *** Channel created on Tue Sep 13 10:24:18 2011
  6. <[M2S]Obi_Wan_Kenobi> evening gents o/
  7. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> hi obi
  8. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> hi Garg
  9. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Devteam decided to make my morning happy)
  10. <GargajCNS> ;)
  11. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> reactor. This is a separate building, but you can’t just place it anywhere. << i cant understand this part
  12. <GargajCNS> no we didnt fix killmail
  13. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> So where i can place a reactor?
  14. <GargajCNS> bah, ukrainians placing reactors again!
  15. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Killmails are so minor in comparsion with PBS
  16. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> HAHAHAHA
  17. <GargajCNS> the key part is
  18. <GargajCNS> "all your buildings need to be in the control range"
  19. <GargajCNS> i.e.
  20. <GargajCNS> there's a radius for each building
  21. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> ok, got it
  22. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> So you decided to make "C&C" system
  23. <GargajCNS> well
  24. <GargajCNS> C&C vs SimCity
  25. *** Mancs [Dev|Mancs@78-131-39-171.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #perpetuum
  26. <GargajCNS> cos in C&C you could technically build anywhere as long as you somehow built a path there
  27. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Why not to make it throught nodes like "pylons" in SC or perimeter?
  28. <GargajCNS> that's entirely possible in our system
  29. <GargajCNS> energy transmission nodes
  30. <GargajCNS> i mean it IS node-based
  31. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> I know, i played all C&C games (except last TT, what is fail for C&C)
  32. <GargajCNS> i dunno if we have "repeater" nodes
  33. <GargajCNS> ok
  34. <GargajCNS> we do
  35. <GargajCNS> :)
  36. <GargajCNS> i just asked
  37. <GargajCNS> so technically we do have pylons
  38. <GargajCNS> :)
  39. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Well, if you will implement "transfer" nodes, then defenders will have hard task to maintain all "pylons". Atackers will have opportunity to kill pylons and place their own pylons to capture your buildings. Am i got it right?
  40. <GargajCNS> yes
  41. <Shaedys> Is there a max size to the bases set by the main building?
  42. <GargajCNS> size of what?
  43. <Shaedys> Total number of buildings you can place.
  44. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Its very very good
  45. <Shaedys> Like, with transfer nodes you can indefinitely expand the area you can build in?
  46. <GargajCNS> i dont think there's a hardcap for that
  47. <Shaedys> Aha.
  48. <Shaedys> There's just a usefullness cap on it.
  49. <GargajCNS> or well
  50. <GargajCNS> i dont think there's a hardcap for that RIGHT NOW
  51. <GargajCNS> there might be one
  52. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Planning your empire <<< if you will say that planning will be shared between multiple people (like between all buildres) i will say its a godlike system
  53. <GargajCNS> hahaha
  54. <GargajCNS> well
  55. <GargajCNS> GOOD NEWS
  56. <GargajCNS> the planning system is basically
  57. <GargajCNS> "let's make something like googledocs for corps"
  58. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> F.e. i want to sharte my planwith CEO in realtime
  59. <Shaedys> Well making a big one will make it harder to defend from two pronged attacks, and naturaly they will want to be somewhat concise.
  60. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Very very awesome.
  61. <GargajCNS> i havent implemented it clientside yet
  62. <GargajCNS> but on server side it's a lot like googledocs
  63. <GargajCNS> i.e. people can edit at the same time
  64. <GargajCNS> you can share, revoke rights, etc
  65. <GargajCNS> view rights, edit rights
  66. <GargajCNS> all that jazz
  67. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> <Shaedys> i think if "pylons" will be ballanced, then if you have big village - big village will be very fragile, because you will be not able to plan defence for 100500 pylons. So technically cap will be nott needed imo
  68. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Sounds very very good. Maybe you want to merge corporation bulleteins with this "googledoc" system?
  69. <GargajCNS> i suggested it
  70. <GargajCNS> but it'd be hard to transition
  71. <GargajCNS> so not at the moment
  72. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Bulleteins allready asking themselves to be revamped in future
  73. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Also, i kinda dissapointed about building process... its very simple imo
  74. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> But another parts of a blog are very promising)
  75. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> i guess we will have PTS to test it
  76. <GargajCNS> how do you want more complex building?
  77. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Like i sayd before, i want that after you placed blueprint, you will have to haul parts of your building with hauler, drop them into a structure basement (like in speciment SAP, okay)and "weld" it with a help of rivellers
  78. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> It will make industry very complicated, because industrialls will have to build a components for a buildings
  79. <GargajCNS> possible
  80. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Like: "You placed a concreete plate, you placed a first floor with your scarab. Guys welded it. THen you have to haul parts for second floor. Guys will weld it. Then you will have to haul penthouse. And guys will finalise it"
  81. <GargajCNS> ya, got ya
  82. <GargajCNS> as said
  83. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> After i saw scarab, my first impression was that scarab was designed for hauling building blocks
  84. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> It will be epic if scarab will visually haul this parts
  85. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Very important questiion: how you will be able to defend your base against server blob or not convinient TZ???
  86. *** Shaedys [8259aba7@perpetuum-online.com] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)]
  87. <GargajCNS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB1zJU08IiA
  88. <GargajCNS> in moments like this, i'm embarrassed to play video games.
  89. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Okay, i got another idea: to prevent uberblobs and give ability to save your work or to evacuate: it is very important to have shield buildings, what defending territory and consuming shitload of commodities per hour. So if you expecting uberblob, you simply activating a shields and evacuating/reinforcing/whatever
  90. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> What do you think?
  91. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> or maybe we should sommon ALF to discuss :D
  92. <GargajCNS> i think that's done as well
  93. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> seriously?
  94. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> 0.0
  95. <GargajCNS> i'm not sure
  96. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> i talking to guys, they saying its very very important
  97. *** Planner_Bot [Planner_Bot@nemkin.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
  98. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Also, as i got it, buildings will be not able to auto-build?
  99. *** DEVCrm [540290fa@perpetuum-online.com] has joined #perpetuum
  100. <DEVCrm> hi
  101. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> hi!
  102. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> \0/
  103. <DEVCrm> NO PMs
  104. <DEVCrm> pls
  105. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> OKAY!
  106. <DEVCrm> :)
  107. <DEVCrm> but i thought you guys have questions so i appeared
  108. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> yes, i will type now. (1 minute)
  109. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> 1. to prevent uberblobs and give ability to save your work or to evacuate: it is very important to have shield buildings, what defending territory and consuming shitload of commodities per hour. So if you expecting uberblob, you simply activating a shields and evacuating/reinforcing/whatever. What do you think?
  110. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> 2. Also, as i got it, buildings will be not able to slowly auto-build?
  111. <DEVCrm> 1: good idea, we will have nodes that increase the connected node's resists
  112. <DEVCrm> 2: no auto build
  113. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> about 1: you really must to defend a hard work for small corp, what spended f.e. month to build a base. Dont you want to loose it in 5 minutes to server blob, right?
  114. <DEVCrm> sure that's true
  115. <DEVCrm> the base has a reinforcement mechanism
  116. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> im all ears)
  117. <DEVCrm> and the nodes are just doing their stuff
  118. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> what means "reinforcement mechanism"?
  119. <DEVCrm> if the armor drops below 60% it switches to reinforced
  120. <DEVCrm> for about 12 hours
  121. <DEVCrm> then it switches to vulnerable for 12 more hours
  122. <DEVCrm> and then goto 10
  123. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> "reinforced" means "invincible"?
  124. <DEVCrm> yes
  125. <DEVCrm> otherwise it will be "bring more ppl"
  126. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> All buildings will have this kind of defence?
  127. <DEVCrm> only the base currently
  128. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> "base" means main terminal, or what all non-turrets?
  129. <DEVCrm> main terminal, sorry
  130. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> will be i'm able to repair it during 12h?
  131. *** [NeX]_Sid [55b652d8@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #perpetuum
  132. <DEVCrm> yes, that's the point
  133. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> How would you ballance it to prevent "fast repair"? Also, what is risk-vs-revard to build something else except terminal?
  134. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> The point is: people will easily loose base to blob but terminal.
  135. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> I'm allready see forum posts: " i spent over the 10kkk to build a base but server blob killed it in 5 minutes! Whydo i need it?" :D
  136. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> How ould you avoid it?
  137. <Mancs> You know, there are some basic ideas. Protect your property with similar amount of automatic defense.
  138. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Will be my defence system effective against server blob?
  139. <Mancs> Terraforming allows you to cut paths, focus fire on "gates".
  140. <Mancs> I doubt any corp will create its base in the middle of a field
  141. <DEVCrm> without any protection
  142. <Mancs> If you have the right mind, you will place your precious stuff in a well protected, unreachable side of the base (mountains) while the enterance will be protected by turrets and so on
  143. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> well, people will gather 1000 grophos, and assault "gates". Main idea of territorial shields: you will be able to turn on defence for short ammount of time.
  144. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Like "perimeter" mode in a perimeter
  145. <DEVCrm> we are talking about the same thing
  146. <Mancs> yeah there's no issue with that, as Crm said with the "increased resist" building.
  147. <Mancs> Did I read that right?
  148. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> but CRM said that "increased resist" will be only for one building
  149. <DEVCrm> yes
  150. <Mancs> right
  151. <DEVCrm> your network will be able to protect a certain amount of enemy automatically.
  152. <DEVCrm> you can increase that with player presence
  153. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> I hope you will ballance it to defend against server blob
  154. <DEVCrm> or realtime reconfiguration of the networkkr
  155. <DEVCrm> --> more power to the turrets
  156. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> means: more power-more efficiensy?
  157. <DEVCrm> --> turn on resists
  158. <DEVCrm> no, not like that
  159. <DEVCrm> turrets use energy if they work
  160. <DEVCrm> so you just want to feed them to the max
  161. *** Mancs [Dev|Mancs@78-131-39-171.pool.hdsnet.hu] has quit [EOF from client]
  162. <DEVCrm> so they CAN attacj
  163. <DEVCrm> *attack
  164. <DEVCrm> and you can send commands to them
  165. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> I didnt got it: turrets will be in "on" or "off" state, or in "X% of power" state?
  166. <DEVCrm> to modify their behaviour
  167. <DEVCrm> turrets will be like robots
  168. <DEVCrm> they will consume AP
  169. <DEVCrm> as they shoot
  170. <DEVCrm> energy transfer will work on them for example
  171. <DEVCrm> you you can "help" them
  172. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> ok, i got it
  173. <DEVCrm> or neut, or vampire
  174. <DEVCrm> and the fun part is that those energy modules will work on xfer and reactor as well
  175. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Its good)Okay, another question: how would you avoid ultimate defence with 100500 turrets and terraform around it?
  176. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> nvm
  177. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> i got it
  178. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> you will have to build alot of reactors
  179. <DEVCrm> well, the abstract problem is the existence of "action per period"
  180. <DEVCrm> like DPS
  181. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> but okay, if youbuild 100500 reactors and 100500 turrets? then what can counter you?
  182. <DEVCrm> well, then you are a busy man feeding all the reactors
  183. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> what means "feeding"?
  184. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Reactors will consume energy?
  185. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> err
  186. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> hydrobenol?
  187. <DEVCrm> consume material
  188. <DEVCrm> yes
  189. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> very very good
  190. <DEVCrm> you must feed them so they can generate energy *AP*
  191. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> then, i have a question about power and defence of turret?
  192. <DEVCrm> power is balancing
  193. <DEVCrm> no idea
  194. <DEVCrm> but they have a nifty new AI system
  195. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Okay, i got a hint from my brosefs: turrets should be very powerful but very consuming. You got it i hope
  196. <DEVCrm> yes
  197. <[WAR]Dan^afk> wow CRM on irc :D
  198. <[WAR]Dan^afk> hi
  199. <DEVCrm> hi
  200. <DEVCrm> i made a nice summary
  201. <DEVCrm> "reinforcement mechanism" If the armor of the terminal drops below 60% it switches to reinforced. Nothing can hurt it. But repairs will work. The reinforced perios is 12 hours long. This gives some time to the defenders to prepare/evacuate/reorganize. Then it switches to vulnerable for 12 more hours. During this period it can't switch to reinforced -> it can be destroyed. Resulting a heavy loot from the items stored in the base including market, pr
  202. <[WAR]Dan^afk> hmm POS bashing
  203. *** [WAR]Dan^afk is now known as [WAR]Dan
  204. <DEVCrm> for the alt corp spamming issue: there is a limit per zone for amount of terminals
  205. <DEVCrm> also per corporation
  206. <DEVCrm> the amount is being discussed
  207. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> In my opinion - the biggest fail in your system could be in a possibility of destroying whole base. Terminal have "reinforce" - thats very good, but the cost of a base could be higher (and logically i think itwil be higher). Thats why you should give very good tools for defence, to ballance risk - vs -revard for building anything but terminals. My guys generated three ideas: invulnerability
  208. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> territoral shield and (or)very powerfull (large ammount of EW power, armor, DPS AP consumption)and (or)"reinforcing" for all structures
  209. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> * (or)very powerfull turret << i meant
  210. *** Mancs [Dev|Mancs@78-131-39-171.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #perpetuum
  211. <DEVCrm> what is a territorial shield?
  212. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> that was my idea: building what consumes shitload of power, but defending a small ammount of territory
  213. <DEVCrm> defending players or defending nodes?
  214. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> everything in range but blocking shooting from inside(i guess)
  215. <DEVCrm> like a big bubble, and all the stuff inside is invulnerable, right?
  216. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uYY_taqUYBc#t=281s
  217. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> in this game shield covered a base (or a node) but consumed so much energy, so you cant maintain it permanently
  218. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> yes
  219. <Mancs> Long Cycle time, short effect, invulnerability/increased resists for all nodes in its surrounding. Interesting concept for sure
  220. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> the main idea: to prevent wiping a base, where you spent so much time
  221. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> f.e. what can you do if your turrets was permajammed  with ecm/suppressors?
  222. <DEVCrm> this video is awesome
  223. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> CRM try a game
  224. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> this game is epic: terraforming, nodes, energy
  225. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> You will be attracted
  226. <DEVCrm> this is EXACTLY what we are doing
  227. <DEVCrm> omfg
  228. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> HAHA
  229. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> but without "perimeter" defence, ig uess (what is a main concept of territory)
  230. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> *(what is a main concept of that game)
  231. <DEVCrm> i must go and RL stuff, later i'll be here
  232. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> okay)
  233. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> ty for your time
  234. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Also, what DEVS think to add kinda "PLEX" system in perp? To motivate people to risk, farm, and build bases
  235. <DEVCrm> no problem, thanks for the ideas
  236. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> anytime)
  237. <DEVCrm> plex u mean item VS gametime?
  238. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> yes. You bying time, and you can sell it for nic
  239. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> Each item like it, was bought from your store for $
  240. <DEVCrm> yes. on the todolist for ages
  241. <DEVCrm> later
  242. <DEVCrm> o/
  243. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> 0/
  244. *** DEVCrm [540290fa@perpetuum-online.com] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
  245. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> The point is: my think thinks that this "PLEX"s should be released with PBS patch to motivate
  246. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> *i think
  247. *** mode/#perpetuum [+o Mancs] by GargajCNS
  248. <[CHAOS]Alexadar> without it people will have huge wallets on gamma, and "what to do with them? Why i should risk to maintain my base, what dont bring anything but useless NICs to me"
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