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Xonotic bot discussion 28-09-12

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Sep 28th, 2012
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  1. [13:04] <rocknroll237> Yo, I'm here to talk about modifying AI within Xonotic.
  2. [13:04] <rocknroll237> Is it feasible?
  3. [13:10] <@divVerent> rocknroll237: no, or rather
  4. [13:10] <@divVerent> if you do it, you'd be our hero
  5. [13:10] <@divVerent> we all want that
  6. [13:10] <@divVerent> but we can't do it
  7. [13:10] <rocknroll237> How come?
  8. [13:11] <@divVerent> 1. is the easiest part of the list
  9. [13:11] <@divVerent> because we didn't write the bot code
  10. [13:11] <@divVerent> LordHavoc did
  11. [13:11] <rocknroll237> Can it not be edited?
  12. [13:11] <@divVerent> sure it can
  13. [13:11] <@divVerent> but we don't have enough coders for that
  14. [13:11] <rocknroll237> okay
  15. [13:11] <@divVerent> bot code is quite a lot, and we have too much other things to tackle too
  16. [13:12] <@divVerent> issue 2. isn't that bad, and mappers can help a lot by making better waypoints
  17. [13:12] <@divVerent> i.e. adjusting places where bots crash into stuff
  18. [13:12] <@divVerent> by moving the waypoints
  19. [13:12] <@divVerent> and 3. is the hardest one to fix
  20. [13:12] <rocknroll237> Okay
  21. [13:12] <rocknroll237> Thanks for clearing that up
  22. [13:12] <@divVerent> while 1. could be a topic for a new coders
  23. [13:12] <rocknroll237> I'll update my post on the forum
  24. [13:12] <@divVerent> actually, this should maybe even work in team matches
  25. [13:12] <@divVerent> e.g. we already have those voice commands
  26. [13:12] <@divVerent> we could e.g. make these voice commands also order the nearest bot around
  27. [13:13] <@divVerent> not stuff like drop the flag
  28. [13:13] <@divVerent> only goal stuff, though
  29. [13:13] <@divVerent> or it'd be too much abused
  30. [13:13] <@divVerent> stuff like "please go attacking" e.g. would be very nice and wouldn't do much harm in multiplayer
  31. [13:14] <@divVerent> as for flag dropping... this should wait a little ;)
  32. [13:14] <@divVerent> we recently got flag passing implemented
  33. [13:14] <@divVerent> once that's ironed out
  34. [13:14] <@divVerent> bots could e.g. automatically pass to a nearby team mate if their health drops too far
  35. [13:14] <rocknroll237> cool
  36. [13:15] <rocknroll237> Have you seen post 29?
  37. [13:15] <@divVerent> sure
  38. [13:15] <rocknroll237> That's the post that is most important as I've put some links in to bot coding
  39. [13:15] <@divVerent> if you want to code a new AI
  40. [13:15] <@divVerent> that could be nice
  41. [13:15] <@divVerent> the current AI is probably broken beyond repair in many ways
  42. [13:15] <@divVerent> so we probably need a completely redone AI
  43. [13:15] <rocknroll237> wow
  44. [13:15] <@divVerent> links won't help much though, Xonotic differs a lot from Quake
  45. [13:15] <@divVerent> you can't just copy code
  46. [13:15] <rocknroll237> okay
  47. [13:15] <@divVerent> you actually need to know how it works :P
  48. [13:15] <rocknroll237> yeah, I gathered that...
  49. [13:15] <rocknroll237> :D
  50. [13:16] <@divVerent> the current AI has some good points
  51. [13:16] <@divVerent> and these should be kept
  52. [13:16] <@divVerent> e.g. the easy waypointing
  53. [13:16] <@divVerent> and the roles system
  54. [13:16] <@divVerent> but their navigation and fight tactics
  55. [13:16] <@divVerent> are very much up for replacement
  56. [13:16] <@divVerent> they're also where the bots waste their CPU power
  57. [13:16] <rocknroll237> yeah
  58. [13:17] <@divVerent> but, making a new bot AI will be a quite large topic
  59. [13:17] <rocknroll237> But in order to fix their navigation and fight tactics, does that mean new AI has to be made from scratch?
  60. [13:17] <@divVerent> mostly, yes
  61. [13:17] <@divVerent> you can keep the routing and waypoints code
  62. [13:17] <rocknroll237> so certain aspects can't just be modified?
  63. [13:17] <@divVerent> only the walking from one WP to next needs changing
  64. [13:17] <rocknroll237> oh okay
  65. [13:17] <@divVerent> it's essentially the same
  66. [13:17] <@divVerent> e.g. the aiming has quite a lot of code
  67. [13:17] <@divVerent> with simulated lag and such
  68. [13:17] <rocknroll237> yes
  69. [13:18] <@divVerent> to do a nice skill system and to make them aim more human-like
  70. [13:18] <@divVerent> but this didn't turn out well and created a LOT of complexity
  71. [13:18] <@divVerent> if that gets thrown out, nobody will miss it
  72. [13:18] <@divVerent> I still recommend
  73. [13:18] <@divVerent> if you want to learn QuakeC
  74. [13:18] <@divVerent> work on topic 1. first
  75. [13:18] <rocknroll237> yes
  76. [13:18] <@divVerent> you will get quick results that will be highly appreciated
  77. [13:18] <@divVerent> and this also can probably be kept when replacing the inner workings of the bots
  78. [13:18] <rocknroll237> I might make a pastebin file of this and add it to the forum post just for clarity
  79. [13:19] <@divVerent> go ahead
  80. [13:19] <rocknroll237> brb
  81. [13:19] <@divVerent> also, markers won't be needed
  82. [13:19] <@divVerent> just make them respond to the existing voice commands
  83. [13:19] <@divVerent> as a side effect, that will mean also better player-player communication in tema games
  84. [13:19] <@divVerent> as players will better learn using these commands
  85. [13:20] <@divVerent> we do have a few existing voice commands that also set a marker
  86. [13:20] <@divVerent> these could also be bot orders, of course
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