Conversation with Jace Hall, #thepostmortem, 20120802

Aug 2nd, 2012
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  1. * jacehall (webchat@cpe-98-154-4-90.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #thepostmortem
  2. <jacehall> hello?
  3. <BoN> Are you the Jace Hall?
  4. <jacehall> yes
  5. <BoN> Really?
  6. <jacehall> i posted on the forum but I think someone deleted it
  7. <BoN> Your involved with Blood's development?
  8. <BoN> Hmmm...
  9. <jacehall> I am the reason you know Blood exists at all.. yes
  10. <jacehall> :)
  11. <meleemario> holy shit
  12. <meleemario> good to see you in here Mr. Hall, Blood is one of my all time favorite games!
  13. <jacehall> I've come to this website because I was thinking about bringing blood back
  14. <BoN> A Reboot perhaps?
  15. <jacehall> wanted to see what the community thought of that idea
  16. <jacehall> not a reboot
  17. <jacehall> the original
  18. <jacehall> exactly
  19. <BoN> That's great news
  20. <meleemario> like, release the source code??
  21. <jacehall> i have the source code
  22. <meleemario> my god, thats the best thing ive heard in a long time
  23. <meleemario> id love it if the source code to Blood were finally released
  24. <BoN> I think there is legal barriors though preventing you from releasing right?
  25. <Hendricks266> jacehall: Wow, that's great news!
  26. <Hendricks266> jacehall: Did you hang on to it way back from the original development or did you reacquire it since then?
  27. <jacehall> if I wanted to release the source i could of course
  28. <meleemario> i think we'd all like to know
  29. <BoN> The source code could help this community
  30. <jacehall> however, i am not sure if that is the best thing considering what I would like to do
  31. <jacehall> so i have some ideas and I need to know what the community thinks
  32. <jacehall> do you guys have a few minutes to discuss this?
  33. <Hendricks266> jacehall: Absolutely
  34. <BoN> Well....where to start...
  35. <jacehall> ok first of all I need you all to understand that I am not looking to try to make money with what I want to do
  36. <jacehall> everything I am talking about is intended to be free for everyone
  37. <jacehall> got it?
  38. <BoN> Got it
  39. <meleemario> understood
  40. <jacehall> ok. Are you all familiar with ZDAEMON?
  41. <BoN> I know ZDoom very well
  42. <Hendricks266> ZDoom, ZDaemon, Skulltag, same family
  43. <Hendricks266> Yes :)
  44. <meleemario> yep, im familiar with em
  45. <meleemario> big user of zDoom here
  46. <Hendricks266> jacehall: Wow... there's so much to say...
  47. <jacehall> well zdaemon is a really cool enhancement to doom that offers better networking, options, etc.
  48. <Hendricks266> Oh!
  49. <Hendricks266> I know exactly what you mean
  50. <Hendricks266> jacehall: http://eduke32.com
  51. <Hendricks266> I am a member of the EDuke32 team
  52. <BoN> Well have you heard the BloodXL project?
  53. <Hendricks266> it's a modern "source port" using the original source code of Duke Nukem 3D release by 3D Realms
  54. <Hendricks266> same BUILD engine as Blood
  55. <jacehall> im familliar with eduke32 but it is not as robust as ZDAEMON... but you all know what I mean now right?
  56. <Hendricks266> Yes, the Doom community is bigger and we have had the Doom source for a number of years longer than Duke
  57. <jacehall> ok.
  58. <jacehall> so i want to talk about this in 3 parts
  59. <jacehall> The first part is the game BLOOD itself
  60. <jacehall> The game BLOOD is awesome. AS IS. It has great gameplay and excellent ideas and is super fun to play. Can we all agree on that?
  61. <meleemario> hell yes!
  62. <Hendricks266> Agreed!
  63. <Hendricks266> The original is the best.
  64. <BoN> Well the original is better than Blood 2 at least
  65. <meleemario> without a doubt
  66. <Hendricks266> Yes
  67. <jacehall> Ok. Part one of what I want to do is make it so that BLOOD is made to work NATIVELY on current computers (Mac/PC) without any special drivers/mods/etc. and that all platforms can play against each other on the same server.
  68. <meleemario> you mean like release the source code, right?
  69. <meleemario> or am i getting off track here?
  70. <jacehall> the graphics would remain the same, except higher resolutions would be possible and there would be some enhancement options added (but not required)
  71. <jacehall> forget about the source code for this part of the conversation. I am only talking about what I would like to do.
  72. <meleemario> that would be wonderful!
  73. <meleemario> ok
  74. <meleemario> carry on with what you were saying
  75. <Hendricks266> Everything so far sounds good.
  76. <BoN> Anyway, Jace Hall have you heard of Kurt's B2R by anychance? http://blood2r.com/
  77. <jacehall> So are you following me so far in what I want to do with Part One?
  78. <meleemario> yes, i follow
  79. <Hendricks266> Yes
  80. <BoN> Yes
  81. <jacehall> ok. So imagine this updated but ORIGINAL perfect working copy of BLOOD.
  82. <jacehall> Now add all the standard network capability that you would expect in a modern game. Just like what ZDAEMON adds to Doom...
  83. <jacehall> Are you still with me?
  84. <Hendricks266> Yes
  85. <meleemario> yes
  86. <jacehall> OK. Now here is PART 2
  87. <jacehall> Now imagine that all of the things that matter in game, like frags, # of secrets found, time to complete a level in single play or co-op play, hit/miss shot percentages, battles won, etc. ARE ALL TRACKED in a universal BLOOD database that can be accessed by users and the information displayed
  88. <meleemario> that sounds heavy
  89. <jacehall> Now imagine that this database can not be cheated or hacked so you know that the information in it is always accurate
  90. <Hendricks266> Interesting idea
  91. <meleemario> indeed
  92. <jacehall> Now imagine tournaments of every kind that the community can have. From who can play levels the fastest, to who is the best at bloodbath, etc.
  93. <jacehall> and all the records are accurate
  94. <meleemario> that would be pretty awesome
  95. <Hendricks266> A leadboard! Nice
  96. <Hendricks266> err
  97. <Hendricks266> leaderboard
  98. <Hendricks266> heheh
  99. <jacehall> Certainly, anyone can make maps and levels for general use that dont get tracked, but imagine being able to submit your level into the system and have it be part of the official available set...
  100. <meleemario> right, sounds like a rad idea
  101. <BoN> Now what about single player? I'm never really into Bloodbath/Multiplayer that much though but it's just me
  102. <jacehall> Imagine the CTF tournaments and etc. all of which can be part of a total blood gameplay experience
  103. <jacehall> Suddenly, if you are investing a lot of time and skill into Blood, you can be recognized for it.
  104. <meleemario> that would be pretty cool
  105. <jacehall> Achievements can be set and clans can have official skins
  106. <meleemario> \m/
  107. <jacehall> Does all of this sound interesting to you? or do you think the community would hate this?
  108. <BoN> Well like I said before I'm mostly a single player person
  109. <BoN> Although there's others that like Bloodbath though
  110. <meleemario> i like it, although i havent got the internet connection for multiplayer
  111. <jacehall> so imagine now playing single player and having your achievements there be reflected in the database so other single players can try to compete with your accomplishments
  112. <Hendricks266> I think it would blow the community's mind
  113. <meleemario> ill say!
  114. <jacehall> Ok. so now lets talk about source code
  115. <meleemario> ok!
  116. <jacehall> when source code is released in enables cheating/hacking greatly
  117. <jacehall> especially for something like what I described
  118. <Hendricks266> It's a tradeoff, like anything
  119. <meleemario> yes
  120. <jacehall> When source gets released, it can sometimes really cause a community to break into small factions for all the different versions. This is what happened to DOOM
  121. <meleemario> how do you mean exactly?
  122. <BoN> Yep, I think there will be a ZDoom/EDuke32 Equilivant source port for Blood
  123. <Hendricks266> That is true, but it's not a straight comparison. Doom had explosive popularity, more than Blood ever had
  124. <BoN> I'm actually all for the modernization of Blood
  125. <BoN> like adding new enemies/weapons/etc
  126. <BoN> Also restoring stuff from the Alpha as well
  127. <BoN> like Beast mode and such
  128. <jacehall> interesting
  129. <Hendricks266> There are two (three sort of) main ports of Duke 3D.
  130. <Hendricks266> EDuke32 is the most advanced (I'm biased)
  131. <Hendricks266> but the main developer tried to rewrite the network code to modern client/server architecture. something like you envision for Blood
  132. <Hendricks266> then he got married and had a kid
  133. <BoN> Of course Jace Hall have you heard of Brutal Doom? I would like to see a more gorier version of Blood...it needs more Blood
  134. <Hendricks266> so the MP code has been somewhat broken in EDuke32 for several years
  135. <Hendricks266> there is another port named xDuke
  136. <Hendricks266> which is used solely for MP
  137. <Hendricks266> a third called hDuke, based on xDuke, which was made to combat cheating and add more MP game modes
  138. <Hendricks266> however, in the words of those who use hDuke and xDuke, many people check very often to see if there is progress on EDuke32's MP code
  139. <jacehall> i see
  140. <BoN> And also a Hall of Epiphany depicted from the cutscenes I always wanted to know why the cutscene HoE is different thant the retail level
  141. <jacehall> Well, these are the thoughts I have about Blood....
  142. <Hendricks266> I think Blood would turn out more like Duke's situation. Not splintered.
  143. <Hendricks266> Even Doom is not in a bad spot per se
  144. <jacehall> I will eventually figure it out...
  145. <Hendricks266> Thinking about all your ideas
  146. <Hendricks266> I like them very much
  147. <meleemario> same here
  148. <BoN> Of course I wanted to know where that Civalian from the ending came from and where that opening leads to....
  149. <BoN> that Caleb shoots with the Tommygun at the end
  150. <jacehall> but at least you can know that there may be more hope for Blood still. I've always loved the game.
  151. <Hendricks266> Also, thinking about the experience in the history of Duke, and another Build game released by 3D Realms, Shadow Warrior:
  152. <Hendricks266> they both had their source code released under the GNU GPL v2
  153. <Hendricks266> meanwhile, the Build engine itself is released under its own license that says you are free to do almost whatever you want with the code as long as it remains for free and Ken still is credited
  154. <Hendricks266> so we have a lot of freedom
  155. <Hendricks266> It is true that keeping the source closed would prevent easy cheating and hacking
  156. <Hendricks266> however, those things still exist for even closed-source games
  157. <Hendricks266> also, open source does not necessarily mean easy hacking either
  158. <Hendricks266> There is an algorithm named "SSH"
  159. <Hendricks266> or SSL
  160. <meleemario> Skulltag was closed-source for a while, and i think cheating still occurred?
  161. <Hendricks266> (sorry, forget which, but they are closely related)
  162. <Hendricks266> It is completely open source
  163. <Hendricks266> actually
  164. <Hendricks266> it is
  165. <jacehall> ya.. i will continue to this about this
  166. <Hendricks266> might be named SHA
  167. <Hendricks266> anyway, names aside
  168. <Hendricks266> it is used to encrypt sensitive information, including many credit card transactions
  169. <Hendricks266> it is how "HTTPS" works
  170. <Hendricks266> and it is fundamentally secure, even being open source
  171. <jacehall> Yes I know, I have a programming background... :) i am going to go play some ZDAEMON now and check stuff out...
  172. <Hendricks266> :)
  173. <jacehall> please share what I have said with the community here. I am interested in hearing what everyone has to say...
  174. <Hendricks266> Will do
  175. <jacehall> thanks guys.
  176. <jacehall> Stay great!
  177. <Hendricks266> Stay in touch!
  178. <jacehall> ill be around
  179. <meleemario> we will, thanks for stopping by Mr. Hall!
  180. <Hendricks266> Yes, thank you.
  181. <meleemario> please stay in touch!
  182. <jacehall> no problem
  183. * jacehall has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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