Just to put my thoughts about this topic (and related ones) in the mix:
I don't like the term "allies". I can live with the fact that we are one big faction consisting of 3x as many people as there is room for. But that is it, for my part.
We might own/part-own a reviving faction for practical purposes, but we don't call them friends. We also don't wage wars for them or help them, in any other way than that we buy their services and are prioritized. We have a channel dedicated revives, where they can get notified. Otherwise they shouldn't have access beyong what other visitors have.
We might not attack MnC, but we also shouldn't call them a sister faction or ally, and in my opinion they shouldn't have access that other factions don't have.
(also if you guys picked another time than late evening/night CET to have your cock fights, I would be happy to participate)
And it's not that I don't like the people in mnc/medicare, it's just that these big "families" clog up the game and make it stale as fuck. We formed a new faction in an attempt to move past that, yet we still drag along connections to God knows how many factions, which we would never attack "because they are our old allies".
We need to change our mindset if we want to complete these merger

C [1751079]08/30/2019
I'm here if you wana cock fight?

D [1899758]08/30/2019
At this point, I have a hard time seeing how any of our old allies could help us with anything but blocking.
So I prefer that we let the past be the past, and go it solo from now on.
At least that way, we will have tried to make the game better. We can't control if Insurgency is gonna gangbang us later on, but if that is what they want, then I am ready to fight for it instead of just calling on our old allies.

E [583823]08/30/2019
So just because you can’t see a benefit means we have to sever ties? If the relationship has caused no issues other than a couple of people being butt hurt over some pretty petty shit, then why should be we be so close to break off something that will 100% alienate others and cause tension. It doesn’t make sense to do anything so harsh with no real reason other than a handful of people are being xenophobic. So what they’re not you’re friends? Most of them aren’t mine but a few are. Does it hurt to make friends or even acquaintances with some? People are resources, and can bring more to the table that immediately meets the eye. And I’m not talking about wars, just in general.

F [2015134]08/30/2019
save the hyperbolic xenophobic shit for facebook. its not the same thing at all.  Even if there was a benefit im not interested in it.  What doesn't make sense is that the relationship ever existed in this form.  Sister factions interfere with our own goals which we already suck at achieving. Its a confusing designation because its vague and means different things to different people.  Our ship is already so big we cant even figure out how to turn it and on top of that we have to worry about the impact of some members friends.

E [583823]08/30/2019
i dont think its hyperbolic at all. that's the rhetoric you all have been spewing since the beginning. you say it interferes with our goals. do you have examples? or just think it will?

F [2015134]08/30/2019
our enimies will 100% use it as an excuse to gang us

E  [583823]08/30/2019
you know this 100% because it's happened?

F [2015134]08/30/2019
if you dont think they will you arent paying attention

E [583823]08/30/2019
i think you're making it out to be something bigger than it actually is. if you're concerned about the 1v1 aspect, i think all parties will honor that. why wouldn't they? it's not going to interfere, what youre talking about is all speculation which i'm sure has been analyzed in depth at every angle by our leadership

F [2015134]08/30/2019
I think your judgement is clouded by personal relationships
we arent a nation we are an army. these things do nothing but complicate stiuff
the only scenario where "sister factions" help is a world war which is a scenario we lose with or without them.

E [583823]08/30/2019
i dont think my judgement is clouded at all, i just dont think that years of building up something should just be thrown away without any cause other than we want to be independent.

F [2015134]08/30/2019
it should have been left behind when we merged

E [583823]08/30/2019
i think you are a part of a vocal minority with that opinion.

F [2015134]08/30/2019
ok ched

A [1846075]08/30/2019
Guys
We are a team not individual voices, let's stop pushing personal attacks and opinions
Mentos is and will be considered a sister faction, the exact definition of what that means we can debate, but they are one of the few factions left from the remnants that we can say, hey look, they have active growing bodies and not rotting carcasses accumulating dust.
I know the game is boring as fuckall, but let's not create internal strife over something that 99.99% of the time doesnt mean ANYTHING in terms of day to day interactions and was stirred up by I cant even tell but a curmudgeony Jussi and a mug by Abdullah that he asked if anyone was going to do it prior to doing so, then eventually finally someone did so, then the person that birddogged it was paid for

D [1598560]08/30/2019
we are way beyond past the jj rage thing
total different topic we where talking about

A [1846075]08/30/2019
So you 3 are unhappy we consider Mentos a sister faction? Without really having a full definition of what that may be, how that does what for us but want it to change?
I think we could benefit from more involvement with mentos as wall partners, but I agree that calling someone a "sister" faction but we really dont have alot of definition of what that means doesnt really help anyone involved

F [2015134]08/30/2019
I am unhappy with the entire concept of sister factions. Any definition of it. There are friendly factions and enemy factions. With mentos specifically...We burned and burried jfa to start a new chapter and to me this is a bunch of people who cant let go of the past like they only have 1 foot in the door.

A [1846075]08/30/2019
That's a bit like saying you get married and get rid of all your friends from before

F [2015134]08/30/2019
no, its saying that relationship changes when you get married
its not like anyone is saying never talk to mentos again

D [1598560]08/30/2019
Isn't that what ns 2 and 3 is for wall hits....

A [1846075]08/30/2019
the issue with NS2/3 for wall hits is there is difficulty in reciprocity for them
100% would rather never have to mess with walls, but it seems ched doesnt really see them as a problem and as the increase in respect needed for more specials grows, so will our need to maximize that respect per hit, OR maybe he changes shit and we can finally have something to do
And I understand we are all NS1 so our priority is getting the most out of things for NS1, but we also have to consider the group too
In the end, let's look at them being "whatever" with us vs not. What are the positives/negatives etc?
I am willing to have hte conversation, what I need for people to be is open and not aggressive toward people that dont agree with your sentiment etc

G [1993550]08/30/2019
tbh we need to be better at giving out wall hits to our subs... we need newsies when they chain
ive only found out about them chaining when i randomly click them and see "oh look the subs chaining"
like we cant expect them to give us wall hits when we dont give them wall hits

A [1846075]08/30/2019
100% we need to improve as sluts I agree

G [1993550]08/30/2019
and regarding the mentos thing i dont think its in good form to have them in our private channels in general, im just not gonna rehash this argument and repeat shit ive already said
apparently the animosity got me PAID 43m

A [1846075]08/30/2019
lol, it was so odd because you really didnt seem to have a problem with him getting that mug did you?
i mean unless there was conversation in private or pm, re-reading the channel it seemed like you were chill

F [1598560]08/30/2019
Nah G didn't say shit
Also im sorry if I can across as aggressive didnt mean that at all

A [1846075]08/30/2019
I respect the shit out of all your guys opinions but we gotta work as a team, each one of us are wearing the same NS shirt

G [1993550]08/30/2019
it wasnt i really didnt seem to have a problem... it was that i had zero problem at all
i gave him the money back tho
i thought the whole thing was stupid
im guessing jussi saying he wants them gone in the ns only channel got leaked to him
he then didnt talk to me and flew off the handle and did a public rant
i come back from work with 43m on hand

F [1598560]08/30/2019
Magicdust had the ns role so that was on us
He actually still does
But I'd hope that's a one time thing
Nothing would of happen if he didn't say anything to who ever got that mug

A [1846075]08/30/2019
MagicDust was IN NS at that point
he automatically got that role

G [1993550]08/30/2019
i didnt even care about it, abdullah asked if anyone was taking it and i said nothing but camped anyway because every man for himself :stuck_out_tongue: then when i noticed the dude landed i had no e so i was glad i didnt say shit or no one woulda gotten the mug
we should not allow this magic dust to come back
at all
assuming hes the leaker

F [1598560]08/30/2019
Stretch said he already talked to em so ya I'm guess he is

A [1846075]08/30/2019
What was leaked though?
That is the part I am confused about, all the conversation that I am aware of that happened was in that trading chat wasnt it?

F [1598560]08/30/2019
Nah
Jj was raging in ns only
General I think

B [40876]08/30/2019
it was in the NS-Only #general

A [1846075]08/30/2019
ah k, then yes, likely dusty said something
he was a member of NS2 at the time

H [687643]08/30/2019
When the merge occured JFA knew that Milk had a relationship with Mentos. In the merge, part of it was to honour that relationship, and we have done so by calling them a sister faction, and as such they have access to a few of our channels. I know a few of you guys aren't agreeing with that and the concept of a sister faction, but it is a valuable friend and ally in a game where we really don't have many. The relationship really hasn't caused any problems apart from a couple issues on Discord where people in my opinion get unnecessarily upset. I know some of you guys don't like allies, but they're a necessary evil. Every faction on Torn has them. And the number of Mentos who actually use our server, is really low. It's not like they're always in our channels. I am really torn on this matter. I understand where you guys are coming from, but I think we need to step back and look at the larger picture. Mentos was loyal to Milk forever, and I know you guys are saying this is a new chapter so we have to let go of that, but if it's really not causing us any problems apart from a few discord issues, is this really a big problem? Perhaps we can talk to Mentos and see how they feel about the relationship and what they see the future looks like.
I think we need to put our focus on something more constructive. Instead of going after WP after elimination, let's go for SA and prove ourselves as a faction. Even if we just push a few of their territories to show our strength. We would gain skills at working as a team and prove our strength to Torn.