Struggle Jones - 04/24/2017
How can I explain this point
Struggle Jones - 04/24/2017
Please help me get through to them
Kiraya - 04/24/2017
I tried
but TBH when I started thinking about jutsus that naturally use melee acc, it started to make sense
I'm still not preciving how it'd be logical to use the melee acc for shooting fireballs though >>
Struggle Jones - 04/24/2017
Okay so will everything be ruled like that for now on?
Do I gain a +2 Buff to anything that uses Gen DC
Kiraya - 04/24/2017
I asked in dev, will wait for their reply
Struggle Jones - 04/24/2017
K
Kiraya - 04/24/2017
why would you get +2 to your gen DC?
where would that even come from?
Struggle Jones - 04/24/2017
Same place this melee accuracy is coming from
Kiraya - 04/24/2017
ok, explain.
Struggle Jones - 04/24/2017
if I can do Sound Nin through Shinobi 101 at gen dc
actually
forget it
I'll just wait on the official dev response
Kiraya - 04/24/2017
lol sure thing, but I just want to know how you converted your weapon's melee/ranged acc into gen DC xD
Struggle Jones - 04/24/2017
Its not weapon
I clearly said Sound Ninjutsu
But it's all good
Kiraya - 04/24/2017
then wheres the +2 gen DC coming from (since we were talking about casting with weapons)
Struggle Jones - 04/24/2017
... I stated in my example man. Honestly that debate drained me so I'm gonna go roll up.
Kiraya - 04/24/2017
in bmod? I'm sorry, I must have missed that, the text was scrolling pretty quickly xD
Struggle Jones - 04/24/2017
This the same stuff that led to inconsistent rulings during the Kinbarii, and Minamoto regimes of Dev.
We're literally saying "Well certain stuff would get affected" but making a blanket without covering the boundaries.
This is not right
Kiraya - 04/24/2017
which is why I'm making sure to verify whatever is unsertain
May 24, 2017
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
I will appologise though for getting a bit heated there
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
You dont need to.
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
just that, I was accused of not listening, not caring, over simplying things for my own convinience and not considering the players on the player level
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
I just shut down when I feel like Im not being heard.
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
oh no, I'm more than happy to listen to your idea
I'm all for bettering the village in any way you can come up with
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
I definitely feel that way. I think you have a bias towards the whole ooc rewards bit. But youre entitled to it.
However this little debate just showed me I need to have things fleshed out so my point can be read and referred to.
In order for that to happen, I need the OOC Areas to be worked on first and then compile a creature guide
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
I do, I wont denie it, I'd rather not give out OOC benifits where theres an option to not give them, I'm also primarily against excelling the player mechanical progression any further than it has been enhanced thus far
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
I dont agree with that but thats my perogative
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
lol most people dont TBF xD
cause I get it, people want more things faster and easier
cause more = better
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
No
Thats not my mindset
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
thats a fairly simple premise to understand
oh?
alright, care to elaborate?
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
Okay, I think there needs to be middle ground. I think that Admin has made leaps and bounds with progressing training, but them a lot of old players also bring up how it took them 6 years to get near capped like its a badge of honor. No one should have to spend 6 years to get near capped level. However it doesnt need to happen in 3 months either. Time is precious and I dont like things that take too long because people lose interest and if its too quick then you lose interest or its unfulilfilling.
So I like to find middle ground, I like to give people a push but not a shove
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
we have already dropped it to 30% of what it used to be
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
Like I dont understand why contract mods have a month to make a post. No one needs that potential one post a month life
I know that...
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
regarding contract: yes, I agree with you on that, the mods need to be faster.
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
Im not disputing that admin has made it less I was here during ncs transitional period from hard life to easier times
I would love to see IC items come back into play. To me even the little sand cloak thing was just  cool to say you had it from the event. Im big into monster and treasure hunting
So I would lean towards environments where players get to keep artifacts and what not that were enchanted with a crpj
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
you mean the equipable inventory thing with the head slot and such?
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
I would even buy crpj slots just to make them if I had to
Yes
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
yeah, I kinda miss them too TBH xD
we had a crack at trying to bring in unique items which cannot be normally bought or made, but it didnt go well
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
I have way more reward ideas than just herp derp heres stats and yen, but those are essential so its hard not to include them
It could go well if you did things like "one time use item" or whatever
Like off the top of my head
PHOENIX ELIXER: potion made from the tearsrops of a phoenix. If applied to someone who has been force killed within the last 6 ooc hours can be revived
Its a bit much, but that gives you a lot of room to fanangle and work with things. A one time use item from an event and only like 2 of them existense?
Me personally would just think damn that makes your IC experience that much more unique
You are one of the only two people with an elixer
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
yeah, if its something that doesnt change the flow of a battle, it could be a fun thing to include
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
See what I mean, tying ooc isnt always bad it just depends on how
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
now see, normally what people propose falls under 2 categories:
1. what would benifit me?
2. what would make me/someone else (whose in my village) stronger(edited)
thats where the issue stems from normally
because yeah, we had a lot of people who made things where they knew that they'd be the ones who end up getting them
and normally the council wants rewards because it'll make their friends stronger or because their friends will want to participate because they'll get stronger
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
As I have said, corruption follows those in charge. Thats why i come at Council, Dev, Bmod, Admin, etc the way I do when something is wrong. That behavior to sweep something under the rug if you dont use it bothers the absolute hell out of me, or how people who've broken serious rules or tarnished their integrity get put back in the same positions to do it again
I dont know everything, I know sometimes I come off that way but Im just a passionate person especially about integrity and morality
Its how you meter a persons soul
Responsibility and accountability go hand in hand yanno
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
lol thats fair, though I get the concept of "well, yeah, some people do bad things, but we wont because we're not like that", which is no grounds for an exception
thats why for instance we have the "no flight" rule
most players wont abuse it, but some will
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
Or we find work arounds
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
lol, that goes under "dont loophole" xP
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
For example I use anti gravity to glide or float
But I never fly, I always have to land and jump again
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
yeah, we allow that in general
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
Even for my DA transformation, I nake chakra wings but I cant fly lol
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
but escentially it was made so that people wont be able to easily escape through gates and god mod in encounters
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
But like when yogi made the crpj to let him dream dragons it was a clear violation, stuff of that nature isnt cool
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
cause like "I'm 1k"m in the air, so you cant reach me, but I totally can bombard you or just leave and you cant do anything about it" <- thats a no go
Struggle Jones - 05/24/2017
Yep
But it all depends on how you rp too
In umashi and kaji rp fight Umashi used anti gravity to go really high up and kaji shot a zantetsuken
Now normally that wouldnt be the case but we have certain liberties
For me I use ny ooc to determine how I rp my jutsu. So for example I use ny sound jutsu at gen dc and can almost use my entire kit from gen dc(edited)
So I rp my jutsu being laced with an illusion while I attack. Like cloak and dagger, but I still take note that its not a genjutsh
Or it will come from my third eye which is a source of my power
Kiraya - 05/24/2017
hmm, I see
May 26, 2017
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
I made a comment back at him for his joke about water to brine about when he was so hurt about Renzo dying and Kaza taking his body he edited rikudo sennin then quit admin and said he blacked out when he did that cause of his crush on renzo had him so emotional
But you can keep rallying with him if you want. No shade goes unanswered
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
oh lol, I'm not even aware of such a thing happening xD
must have been long before I joined dev/admin xD
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Yes hence why I ignored you and focused on him
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
lol fair enough
thought you were talking about a change which affects our system today xD
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
I could see that
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
what, him changing something without telling anyone?
nah, we keep track of that, nobody does that today xP
as in, I have mod logs of who changed what, when and which IP was used to do that xD
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
What
Dude...
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
lol, sorry, been a bit vague there xD
what did you mean by that - just out of curiosity? xD
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
That you qere out of the loop on quite a few things that are before your time
Were
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
ah lol
yeah, thats true
I mean, I caught on some of them TBF
still doesnt know what saito did wrong on dev that got him kicked out TBF
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
It was his attitude
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
ah, yeah, that I heard, but was that all of it?
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
He doesnt like how lazy dev gets and then shoulders everything resulting in him looking like hes trying to run dev
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
like, normally attitude is not enough to get someone off of a team
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
So he gets people to band against the head so we can get progress
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
uh huh
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
You guys are content with half done stuff he wasnt
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
ok, I'm starting to see the issue
lol, believe me, I'm not ok with "half-done", even more so to clear contredictions
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Well your responses make it seem otherwise
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
I mean, you probably remember my rants on dev back in the day
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
How can yall have an entire puppet system but not identify its core issues
Then constantly twist the stuff I say to fit another narrative
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
now see, THAT is a matter of prespective, what is the "core-issue" for you? the lack of puppet-spesific augments?
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Just because i dont kiss ass when I bring up an issue doesn't make me the bad guy.
Have you not seen all the things Ive said about puppets
You think this is over augments
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
thats the portion I saw
and responded to
and you continued saying "but there is a problem with the core-issue" never actually spesifying on what you meant
when I asked you to spesify
you just clamed up and continued repeating the same
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Okay
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
so if you dont explain to me the problem you're having , I wont be able to identify it myself beyond using the information at my disposal and guessing
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Ive explained it many times, to be blunt the problem is the people on dev who sweep issues under the rug
The problem is you guys have half done shit and dont care to change it
The system minus a few things look essentially the same 5 years ago.
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
"you guys", just as a reference for future discussions: I'm not apart of dev
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
K
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
I am admin and I am working with dev on occassion
but not actually apart of the team
likewise with bmod, contract, advertisement and the verious councils
but go on, I'm still going to help however I can
hmm, ok, actually I do have a responce to something you just said
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Okay
Im on mobile btw
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
The problem is you guys have half done shit and dont care to change it

I'm aware that there are things in the system which are not up to date, and things which are for the lack of a better term "wonky".
but the dev team is small and they're constantly working on verious projects (non-stop mind you).
you cant rationally expect them to fix everything and better the system in the same time over night(edited)
ah fair
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Realize none of my concerns stem from overnight, they stem from years of observation and participation
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
true
now, here is another thing that I wanted to mention regarding this
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
I am well knowledged and informed
I Dont bring up stuff on the basis of just starting shit
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
the current dev team is no longer doing quick patches unless its an absolute emergency. they're releasing these things in bulk in system updates
last one revolved weapon updates (and everything related to it) as well as cursed seals and some kin revamps
next time they'll do several other things and s oon
so they'll reach whatever problem you're seeing in the system eventually, they're driving towards most of what you mentioned already either way.
some of the things you mention though - granted are not incompatible with our system, even if they're not at their ideal form, they still function, some of which functions very well too
the augments are actually a very good example to that
you have many augments which are neutral to all weapons, some that are taijutsu spesific and some are for acc-type spesific
like for instance, we have augments geared purely for ranged/projectile weapons
if you're weilding a slashing weapon, that one wont fit for you
I'd agree with you that many some puppet-spesific augments could do our system some good
which is something I'd gladly propose to dev
but its not like puppets are useless or cant recieve augments atm either
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
You realize after years of we working on it people dont care or believe anymore

Kiraya - 05/26/2017
yeah, I heard that complaint before, many times TBF
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Do you think I am the only one who feels like this?
Okay
So why do I get met like Im irrational
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
"dev doesnt care what people say" "dev doesnt do shit" <- they ate their words when v6.1 came out
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Im not saying anything different than others
It shouldnt take 5 years to fix Genjutsu and Puppets
It shouldn't have taken 2-3 to work Taijutsu out [v5.5]
This is repeated issues we as the player base and someone on bmod see from dev a lot
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
you're met as if you're irrational because you take the approach of "here is my problem, I expect you to fix it right now, nope whatever you're working on is not as important, drop all you're doing and work on my thing"
(I'm lagging a bit so my messages come in late btw)
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Oh really? So you assume what I say
Like I said, you guys twist my narrative
I dont say fix it this very second
I inquire intent and what is being done
Dev always says working on it but takes years
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
from the way you say it, it definatly sound like it, I'll be fair with you there.
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
I inquire intent and what is being done
Like I said my narrative gets twisted, because its easier to sweep it under a rug of convenience
That is my core issue with dev as it has always been
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
dev is not at liberty or obligation to share any of its progress with anyone outside of their team, as an ex-dev member you should know this.
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
But regardless I give up
When I was on dev we strove to keep players informed
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
do you remember what happened to some of the systems when they were talked about before they were actually done?
like ninja path for instance
geesh, still lagging x_x
thats what I'd assume the reason why they dont tell people what they're up to
as for twisting your words comment; behind every request for a change there is intent, which also applies to the topic we had regarding to council
sometimes people complain about the system because they legitimately think that something doesnt work properly,
sometimes they complain because what they use is not strong enough
sometimes its due to their personal opinion - not liking something which is actually not a problem mechanically
and sometimes its to make something weaker because it makes them weaker when confronting it
thats why the "why" behind the "what" is also important
for instance, I'll be blunt but are you asking for "fixing genjutsu and puppets" because you legitimately think its function in a non-proper manner, or is it because its something you're personally interested in and you feel its not strong enough for you to use?
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
I "complain" because its a mess and I do not enjoy how messy it is
I am one of the most honest people on this site and Ive worked for that
I use everything in the system
Even more so Im able to use. I chose two of the most unsupported jutau types in nc as my favorties and theyve been messes since I joined
I learned how to deal with it and adapt
Ill be fine regardless, I bring up stuff because Dev has been lacking and not meeting expectations for a long time
So are you okay with stuff the way it is because it doesnt hurt your build?
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
lol, it definatly hurt my build xD
I lost my passive CP reg which I relied on quite heavily as well as a good chunk of secondaries, all from the last update
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
I asked that in sarcasm.
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
lol, no use using sarcasm with me, without a change of tone I wont get it xP
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
But if it makes you feel better Ive had my own builds nerfed
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
takes everything you say quite seriously
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Chakra Attuned, Human Puppet, etc
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
I dont even know what on your build got nerfed, furthermore, you made said build after the update was released
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Okay stop
Before you confuse yourself
I am saying in the past I got things I used nerfed
In the present current my build is fine. Of course I would like to use puppets but they are abysmal
But Ill probably still use them because thats how I am
But there are a mess of questions when it comes to how they interact with Abilities, Augmemts, BL/CA/Kinjutsu
Because they were changed to ranged acc and more weapon rules
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
ok, one sec I'm restarting my computer, everything lags pretty terribly, be back in like 10 minutes
continue typing though, I'll read it all once I get back xP
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Without changing the stuff that correspond
You cant change something and not account for the rest.
Dev doesnt feel like its serious, but most of the answers I receive just borderline general laziness
Because theres no reason we still have messy shit from 7 years ago with core abilities
There is no reason things like aburame should still be referencing meters and knockback
Because theres no reason we still have messy shit from 7 years ago with core abilities
There is no reason why the system is still a patchwork of ideas, designs, and numbers from different versions

Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
The core issue that you and enzan tried to devalue by assuming I considered puppets the core problem, is in fact what Im trying to make you understand
That laziness and doing a half-assed job will only cause more problems than it solves
The core issue that you and enzan tried to devalue by assuming I considered puppets the core problem, is in fact what Im trying to make you understand
That laziness and doing a half-assed job will only cause more problems than it solves
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
ok there we go
the reason why I was talking about puppets was because you were refering to them in the beginning of the conversation, so I assumed you were still talking about them, I'm guessing so was enzan
as for the old things not recieving a proper update - honestly that always bothered me too, but I know that they'll get to it
as for things not being accounted for when making changes - yep, thats something that'll occure unfortunatly, a small team working endlessly on tons of projects are bound to miss somethings, they're not paid to do this and they have life outside of NC, so I dont expect them to go over the same thing a million times until everything is accounted for especially when it doesnt occure to anyone on the team that a particular item is now out of sync because something else was changed despite them working VERY hard to avoid such a thing (notice the changelog on v6.1)
they'll get to everything at one point or another, the fact that you dont think they would is your opinion, not their fact.
also, them being "lazy" is super inaccurate considering how much they work on the system
but then again, you also need to understand (as I have told you before and as you should have known already) they have priorities, which they decide on and they will act upon them in the order they choose. If you feel that something YOU think takes more priority should be worked on sooner, the fastest way to achieve that is to litterally join dev
and I wont denie it, we do have some things which work better than others within each jutsu type, each build type and so on, but its also possible to get a solid and powerful build out of a collection of things which one would initially think they're infirior, just depends on your style
also; if you dont like how something is made, dont use it, you have SO MANY OPTIONS in our system that you can work with practically an endless combination of things which suit you best and you being ok with them and the way they work.
but hey, everyone are entitled to have their own petpeeves, everyone are entitled to their opinion as well
but we also need to respect each other and conduct ourselves in a professional manner.
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
I wont join Dev, I jave been there plenty, tried plenty, but I refuse to stress myself to work with Katsuo again. He got it
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
shrugs
thats up to you
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
It js
Is
And how dare you tell me to conduct myself in a professional manner when you watch people like Katsuo and Enzan talk shit and be snarky in their response
Yet they get no reprimand
Yall can shove that favortism right back where you found it
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
lol, excuse me? do you think I'm not talking to them in DMs too?
I told all three of you to be respective
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Excuse me no I dont when yall gang up on me during responses and dont even read what I put down
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
but so far only you're slinging shit at me
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Oh okay
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
also, did I ask enzan or kaen to chime in on the affinity move topic?
he joined in and cleared things up on his own accord
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Alright.
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
I mean, what have you accused me of so far: not caring, favorism, not listening, twisting people's words and a bunch of other things I cant remember nor will I bother to check
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
You have twisted my words I pointed out where
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
that what, I said that your core issue is the puppet system?
that was in the way you conducted the conversation, sorry.
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
You have not listened and a lot of times you add on a bunch of other information that obscures the point
Annnd its all my fault?
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
I see all of that information as relevant to the conversation
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Im in control of how you read and respond?
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
you're in control of how you phrase yourself and explain yourself <- that is the information I need to work with, if what I said was wrong correct me and say what you meant, I even asked you to explain in the bmod chat several times, you refused to do that.
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
So are you not allowed to be remiss if you feel like the person isnt understanding you like you seem to be "when I clam up"
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
when I feel that someone doesnt understand me, I do my best to explain myself
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Then you tell me that you wont bother to read what I put when you feel like Im slinging shit at you
So why would I keep persisting if I cant get through to you?
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
what I didnt bother to RE-read was exactly what you accused me of
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Cool cause if you did maybe you would see Im not coming at you
I can apologize for the generalization about dev  but beyond that I only directed the way the enzan conversation went
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
so you wanna say that this is not hostile?

And how dare you tell me to conduct myself in a professional manner when you watch people like Katsuo and Enzan talk shit and be snarky in their response
Yet they get no reprimand
Yall can shove that favortism right back where you found it
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
And you see that as my fault
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
just to get one example
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
And not anything to do with the way you came in
Expanding on a side you knew nothing of
But its good
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
huh? how was I supposed to know what you were talking about when you didnt bother to state what you were refering to? I wasnt even defending enzan, I was trying to understand what you were saying
heres something that people dont always consider: I'm not a mind reader, I do not psychicly know what you guys are saying without you clearly stating what it is you're trying to convey.
overall, I think that a majority of our problem is a miscommunication.
however, regardless of who done what wrong, I'm asking you as I've asked the rest to conduct yourself professionally, if you want to accuse someone of something you better find some grounds for said accusation, otherwise do not evenstate it. you're angry, I get it, our conversation got heated and things where said in a not an optimal manner. and yes, maybe I too should have conducted myself in a calmer manner than I have (I'm a human too, when I'm being insulted I'll also get upset just like anyone else, and you've been doing it a lot in our last two conversations, maybe I've too, I tried not to but if I have, I appologise). regardless of that, I still wish to help you however I can if you'd need help with anything.
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Okay Im on my phone I cant respond to this the way I want but I will respond
While I do not agree with you I appreciate you trying to have a conversation. Regardless of what you think of me I am a person of integrity
Therefore my words and responses will question intent but sometimes people think Im coming at their integrity when I speak on the integrity of our system
I am passionate about it because I've invested years into seeing a cleaner more complete system by pointing out whats wrong whether Im in a position to change it or not
When Im wrong I apologize
When I have a point I want to be heard and Ive argued with the entiee Dev Team on occasions that sometimes I'd be wrong and have to take the L or they realize Im right
I wont press an issue if it doesnt exist, I ask many small questions to gather a concrete ground on the matter
I spent hours researching the puppet issue before bringing a responsento Shiori but Im on my phone and cant give an amazing response
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
But I can make my point heard otherwise Im not upholding my end to the site by not attempting to draw attention to whats wrong. Am I supposed to believe Dev is aware of everything I bring up
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
oh no, you asking questions is quite alright.
you expressing concern regarding our system's features is also quite alright.
groundless accusation, assult on staff and general misbehaivure is a problem though.
granted, I had to explain to you how dev conducts things and why because it occured to me that you might not be aware of it or maybe did not consider their position on this spectrum. at least from the way that the conversations were conducted.
because, honestly, I've heard it all before about how dev is supposedly functioning from the prospective of the players, and their critisism stems from the lack of knowledge of what is going behind the curtains as well as the lack of consideration of what might be going on behind the curtains.
since as far as they're concerned, no updates = no work being done (which is incorrect)
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Its more so the non chalant attitude when problems are brought up and the constant Dev is working on it
It doesn't seem like it, and we understand that it's a job with no pay but they chose it
They also choose who they allow and while everyone may not have the mind for Dev they deserve a uniform, well taken care of system
My general issue is that the system has more or less been this same mess since v5.5 started and things still linger from 6 years ago in an unhealthy way and an entire system of jutsu werent fixed was not okay
AE Ruined the system for non nin users, and made everything an utter ness
Mess
People complained for a long time until Taijutsu got fixed
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
yep, dev considered the AE issue too xP
(sorry, had to jump in there)
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Ok
However Genjutsu got shafted for a long time and even lost their buffing genjutsu
Puppets got the worse end of the stick
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
was sad that the buffing gen was gone, still am
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
With nearly no way to buff them other than by branching out to use Genjutsu to buff overall damage, puppets fall off, they lost their augments???, given the augments of taijutsu stuff but the bl ca kin and abilities that work with weapons weren't audited tonaccount for puppets, they also do not have as many jutsu as Taijutsu which is essentially their counterpart now. Traps are treated like jutsu in price but feel like less reliable augments styled as conditionals and the god awful creativity from ripping yugioh cards names and effects
I was not okay with this when it was going when Shiromaru was in control of Dev and I dont like the decisions ported over but thats just  me observing one part of the system
Yet it interacts with numerous parts
It's okay to say working on things, but after years of watching people throw things they dont use or care for to the side it creates bad shows of integrity
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
oh, buffing gen: BL/CA, abilities, augments for weapons, jutsus, class bonus, genjutsu, sensory affinity moves (gen)
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Also Enzan made it clear why puppets got shafted because no one cared
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
oh sorry, curse seals (instead of "genjutsu")
and I believe theres a style too?
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Also Genjutsu: Hit or miss normally, not many bl ca that support it nor do they have a decent amount of genjutsu, most Genjutsu buffs are very minimal and they have 1 style, 2 augments,
They have like 6 abilities
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
yep, they get the least amount of support - you still have plenty of sources to draw from though
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Do you want to go over the support Taijutsu and Ninjutsu have to compare
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
pfft hell no
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
There's not plenty and Id rather not go down that road with you right now
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
I know that gen gets the least xD
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Puppets get the least
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
puppets are now weapons, therefor they get all the support taijutsu gets minus some augments
heck, you can make a neat hawkeye-puppeteer build
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
They have no style, the augment port wasnt really considerate of them, it looks like it was to make them simple
No you cannot
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
lol, yeah you can xD
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Already asked
Ranged and Projectile weapon buffs dont apply to puppets
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
hawkeye gives you buffs for weapons that use ranged acc (in most cases), which puppets fall into that exact category
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
No they dont
I already asked
Also when is the last time you actually reviewed all the weapon oriented bl ca? I did last night, they are restricted to a specific weapon type or taijutsu explicitly
This is what I mean by if they cared they would have defined puppers interactions as weapons with bl ca
And Kinjutsu
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
yep, you're right, puppeteers wont make good hawkeyes
checked again, was convinced it was talking about acc type instead of weapon type
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Puppeteering only works with raw accuracy buffs. However they have no way to buff their damage or play with their effects
They also do not have a lot of jutsu, only 3 A ranks?
It is heavily skewed and tossed to the way side
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
3 A rank per type
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
so really 9 A rank jutsus
still less than tai/gen, granted
but puppets also get traps
which taijutsu doesnt have
besides, that whole thing with "puppet checks work on ranged acc VS ranged acc" is gold because most people put their ranged acc on low
so you as a puppeteer get +8 passively against most people not counting your actual acc buffs
as for damage, tbf if you can get something that buffs attacks using ranged acc or something that generally gives you plus damage naturally, you're good
though I wanna agree with you that puppets are not getting fair treatment IMO in comparison to the rest of the jutsu types
IMO what they should do is just turn puppets all the way into taijutsu to give them access to anything related to ranged/projectile weapons (jutsus included) as well
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Exactly, if youre gonna blanket then do it more inclusively
Make them to a degree a sub type of Taijutsu
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
but if that happens, remove the "ranged acc vs ranged acc" thing because that'd make puppets broken
if they get all the benifits of taijutsu but also are the superior choice between a weapon and 3 puppets
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
I guess, traps are one time deals and take a lot of ap
But their jutsu works off puppet types
See we have two different ideas of this blanket
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
yep
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Youre thinking of them at the core just weapons from taijutsu
They are their own thing but are not represented when it comes to WEAPON oriented bl ca and kin
They also lack jutsu
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
hmm, ok, so new idea: make them applicable only as ranged/projectile weapons but they still do not gain access to the taijutsu ranged/projectile jutsus
then you have the puppet's unique jutsus applying only to puppets and no other jutsus are bleeding into puppets (although they currently can if you equip them with trick weapon), you also have each puppet with 3 augments (meaning 9, some of which could have passive effects like passive regeneration or DR)
so ok, you have less jutsu veriety per type, but all together, if you have all three out, your vierety will be quite vast
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
And thats another thing, Im like 95% sure they werent thinking about ...
Nevermind
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
hmm?
now you got me curious xD
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
No please dont dig
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
ok ok xD
but yeah, as it stands now, as far as I know, you can have 6 jutsu sub-types with your puppets
if each has trick weapon
since they're weapons, they can gain access to taijutsu subtypes this way
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Anyways I see you are just coming up with work arounds. Why are people against  just  actually changing the weapon bl ca to say weapon on their moves instead of doing taijutsu purely
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
so imagen sending your puppet to do fist of sin: wrath on someone xD
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
What...
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
puppet equipped with trick weapon (unarmed) which gives you access to unarmed jutsus, right?
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
I guess
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
so, while that puppet is equipped, you can use unarmed jutsus through that puppet
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Okay
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
so puppet -> fist of sin
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Youre just making work arounds at that point
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
I am
is being creative with what he is given
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
So we arent really discussing what...
Do you assume Im not?
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
didnt say that
I said I am being creative, didnt say anything about you xP
man, now you're twisting my words
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Making work arounds is what I said
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
geesh
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
I never said you were being creative
If youd chill the heck out and wait youd see why I said that
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
=_=
are you fucking serious right now?
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
I said making work arounds because thats what we have to do but Im discussing the problems
I dont need to shop work arounds bro
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
I tried to theory craft with you and be chill and all, but you just keep assulting me
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Im assaulting you by asking you a question
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
"Struggle Jones - Today at 6:17 PM
Making work arounds is what I said
Kiraya - Today at 6:17 PM
geesh
Struggle Jones - Today at 6:18 PM
I never said you were being creative
If youd chill the heck out and wait youd see why I said that"
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
My nigga you got emotional and if I was assaulting you then you'd know
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
is that so?
you know what, I tried to be patient with you, I tried to help you figure out ways to use something you view as "bad" and "lacking" in a potent way, and the responce I hear is all battering.
thanks for that.
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Youre just making work arounds at that point is what I said, I never touched on tbe creativity of it you brought that up, im trying to stay on point
Aight
Youre not trying to understand me though,  youre trying to assuage me into this idea that its not that bad and how to make band aids but Im not trying to discuss band aids
And you wanted to help me but do you even know what I want help with?

Kiraya - 05/26/2017
the way I see it currently you just want to point out things you see as system flaws
you dont want to talk about "how to make it better" or "how to use it better", but just complain
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Okay and if thats all you gain from me  why do I need to keep explaining? Thats what I mean youre minimalizing my issue because you see a work around.
So everything I say is fucking complaining and you dont give it validity until I go through 500 words of explaining but you selectively read what I write?? Come on son
Im open to making a draft which is what I would have rather had help on
Not making band aids because I can do that on my own.
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
who said I dont give it validity, well, I do but only to those which I THINK are valid points, sure I responded only to several of them, not all (you dont WANT me to respond to all of them, instead you tell me that I keep interupting you), you also dont seem to want to talk about what can change into what or what can be used better in the way it exists today, instead you want to hear "you're right" and thats it, it'd seem. great, I'll agree with you that puppets dont get as much love as other things, I'll also say that there are other things in our dear system which doesnt function in the best way possible.
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Thats not what I want to hear but remember you said Im putting words in your mouth when youre assuming my intent
And I'm telling you my intent
Im writing it out and over explaining but this is your conclusion
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
considering the way you conduct yourself, yes.
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
You also realize Ive raised concern for BL CA Kinjitsu, Taijutsu, Genjutsu and Puppets
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
sighs
ok, want to have a productive conversation (as in dialogue) regarding some things you dislike about our system and what can be done about it, lets go for it. HOWEVER if its going to be a monologue about things you dont like and thats it, then I dunno how to continue from there.
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
If you only view it as a monologue then we dont have much to talk about.
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
its a monologue if every time I jump into the conversation you tell me "chill the fuck down and let me finish"
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
Okay.
Kiraya - 05/26/2017
so, the ball's in your coart, you choose where we go on from here.
Struggle Jones - 05/26/2017
You got it.