OoT History Notes

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  1. OoT history notes by Cosmo
  2. --------------------------
  4. --the beginning--
  6. Mar 31, 2003
  8. TSA: 6:45.17
  11. Hello fellow gamers:
  13. I'd like to report the latest verified classic Zelda accomplishment.
  15. Gamer Michael Damiani who hails from Texas in the USA has set a blisterning pace of 6 hours 45 minutes and 17 seconds from start to finish and takes the place of 1st in the world at this title !!
  17. Zelda fans who want to try their luck at submitting need to know the following time paramters. Your game starts the instant you hit "Start" to start a new game, and ends the instant you deliver the final blow to "Ganon", which is the very last moment you have dominion/control over Link.
  19. So you can best see how you would fare against Michael's pace, here are some achievement thresholds. As the game is moderately linear, I realize that some of you might opt for a different path. However, without giving away Michael's efforts and choice of path, here are some important benchmark events and how quickly he achieved them.
  21. 17:23 - picks up heart from "Queen Ghoma"
  22. 1:09.18 - picks up heart from "King Dodongo"
  23. 1:44.00 - picks up heart from "Barinade"
  24. 2:47.38 - picks up heart from "Phantom Ganon"
  25. 3:25.30 - picks up heart from "Volvagia"
  26. 4:27.34 - picks up heart from "Morpha"
  27. 5:04.46 - picks up heart from "Bongo Bongo"
  28. 6:02.07 - picks up heart from "Twinrova"
  29. 6:33.01 - "Ganondorf" appears ready for battle
  30. 6:40.16 - "Ganon" appears ready for battle
  31. 6:45.17 - final blow delivered to "Ganon"
  33. Okay...that's pretty much all I can divulge without revealing the gamer's decided-upon non-linear activity sequence choices. But these benchmarks are all achieved in (I think) identical sequence unless I am mistaken (and in a huge RPG like "Ocarina of Time" that is entirely possible !!)
  35. Congratulations, Michael, for setting an awesome new RPG record on the classic N64 title "Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time" !!
  37. Robert
  39. ---
  41. post from TSA
  43. "I did get Epona, and I did get the Biggoron Sword. I'll tell you that much. And those two things are not required, either."
  45. ---
  47. Hello all:
  49. Both OoT players did not use the save/quit for purity sake their scores are all on equal ground. Same holds true for the two verified aLttP scores...or rather records, as they are time based.
  51. I believe the final ruling will be...
  53. -> NO save/quit allowe on any Zelda title
  54. -> NO actual game deaths are allowed...fairy revival via captured fairy in a bottle, however, is allowed
  55. -> Special movement exception shall be the "Up+A" option on classic LoZ (NES) as that is in in instruction booklet.
  57. So, it seems that all is well. Please advise if any questions. Thanks !! And thanks for all the commentary thus far.
  59. Robert
  61. ---
  63. post from TSA Jun 12 2003,
  65. Update - I recently exploited a skill of mine that I had not attempted in any of my runs that has significantly put me below the six hour mark. It effectively cuts out a rather out of the way task that many, many people who play this game require.
  67. I'm gonna go ahead and do a run with this this weekend for the N64 version, and send it in. I'm pretty confident this run I am gonna send in is unbeatable. So, I extend a challenge (once it is verified next week) to anyone who thinks they can best it.
  69. ^^ talking about skipping lens of truth
  71. ---
  72. TSA Jun 13 2003
  74. Seriously Rob, mad propz!
  76. BTW, for OoT - I can beat the game without the Lens of Truth. Before you think that is so easy, try "considering" what you have to do with it...
  78. - Shadow Temple...
  79. - Bongo Bongo...
  80. - Poe Guide in Desert...
  81. - Invisible Bridge in Shadow Trial...
  83. You save 12 minutes by bypassing it.
  84. I saved 13 minutes from winning the Epona race first time.
  85. I saved 10 minutes remembering a Deku Stick for Spirit Temple.
  86. I saved about 15 minutes going in a different order of Temples an Adult.
  87. I moved quicker than my previous run, shaved about 15 minutes.
  88. I still get Epona and Biggoron Sword...sorry, it pays off so nicely getting both ASAP when you arrive as an adult.
  90. Now...I haven't done all the above in one run. I did all the above except not get Lens of Truth, that's 65 minutes OFF my 6:45 run, which puts me at 5:40. I got 5:57 something on the tape that was damaged, but I didn't do two temples in the right order (You should do Spirit before Shadow...).
  92. I am going to attempt this run on Sunday of this weekend. I am spending my free time "practicing" crossing the Haunted Wasteland without it. I have a about 1:4 ratio of success. I want it to 1:2 before I spend more than 3/4 the game and screw up there...though I think getting it on the 2nd try won't cost too much time, but I want a mistake free run.
  94. I also think next week I will begin looking into the GCN version, ensuring the path is the same.
  96. ---
  98. Version differences, lots of misinformation
  100. TSA, Jun 17 2003
  102. "Well, the same type of problem arises in the GCN versions as well. The GCN runs an emulated version of OoT/MQ, and it actually runs it slower than the N64.
  104. There are obvious examples...
  106. Rolling in the N64 version makes you "go" faster. It's proven...just clock yourself for a certain distance.
  108. In the GCN version, it doesn't. "
  110. ---
  112. alexpenev talking about crooked cart sequence breaks
  114. "I later heard from "barkera" that Ghost Link [a glitch that lets you go through corners where two walls meet at less than about 70 degrees] could be applied to Ganon's Tower, skipping the 6 barriers entirely, and by "Zerofilter" that CC worked on King Zora - potentially an extra 20 minute improvement overall just for doing things I didn't know about. "
  116. ---
  119. A tester of Ocarina of Time beat the game in 6 hours
  121. ---
  123. funkytoad, July 06 2003
  125. "If anyone cares, in my experience, there is a much faster way of crossing hyrule field than rolling. Simply face Link perpendicular to your destination, and do side jumps the whole way there. It's very quick..."
  127. ---
  129. TSA 5:52:31
  132. Hello fellow gamers:
  134. I'd like to report the latest verified classic Zelda accomplishment. This one is sure to raise a few eyebrows.
  136. Gamer Michael Damiani who hails from Texas in the USA has set an even MORE blisterning pace, decimating his previous submission of 6 hours 45 minutes and 17 seconds from start to finish and really ramps up 1st place spot in the world at this title !! His final time...5 hours, 52 minutes and 31 seconds (5:52:31) !!
  138. Shredding almost a full hour off his previous personal best wasn't easy. There was rarely a free moment when Mike wasn't accelerating normal walking movement with a roll or a hop. Now imagine keeping that pace up for 6 straight hours. Combine that with a few changes in decision-making and strategy, and the results were virtually guaranteed.
  140. Mike's run wasn't absolutely flawless, however, which opens up the very realistic possibility that faster is inevitably possible. For the benefit of Zelda fans and competitors, I listed some noteable instances below where valuable time was lost, so you can best "guesstimate" how fast might be possible.
  142. Zelda fans who want to try their luck at submitting need to know the following time parameters. Your game starts the instant you hit "Start" to start a new game, and ends the instant you deliver the final blow to "Ganon", which is the very last moment you have dominion/control over Link.
  144. Normally, it has been my practice for purposes of information to list key points in the game and the related time of completion. This time, however, at the gamer's request since the competition is becoming fierce, I cannot divulge certain details of his quest egven so far as the order of the areas he completed as it is now a fact that in some cases the gamer has a choice. With that in mind, except for "Queen Ghoma" and entering Ganon's castle, the rest has to be somewhat of a mystery.
  146. 0:16:42 - picks up heart from "Queen Ghoma"
  147. 1:03:49 - picks up heart from "2nd Boss"
  148. 1:32:45 - picks up heart from "3rd Boss"
  149. 2:42:39 - picks up heart from "4th Boss"
  150. 3:15:23 - picks up heart from "5th Boss"
  151. 3:50:44 - picks up heart from "6th Boss"
  152. 4:38:58 - picks up heart from "7th Boss"
  153. 5:06:47 - picks up heart from "8th Boss"
  154. 5:37:32 - "Ganondorf" appears ready for battle
  155. 5:48.41 - "Ganon" appears ready for battle
  156. 5:52:31 - final blow delivered to "Ganon"
  158. Okay...that's pretty much all I can divulge without revealing the gamer's decided-upon non-linear activity sequence choices. However, there is ONE (1) benchmark that is totally linear and I think might be interesting to all OoT players...fastest time to set foot inside the Deku Tree...Mike's time is 8 minutes and 54 seconds (8:54) and is the first time I believe I mentioned this benchamrk in any of my OoT write-ups.
  160. Now then, some other highlights. As I said before, the run, as good as it was, had a few heart-aches.
  162. -> Caught by 2nd set of guards in castle while sneaking in to see Zelda
  164. -> Just misses getting into the Lon Lon ranch before nightfall...has to accomplish this sequence another time
  166. -> Falls off the curved stone path towards the megaton hammer right after opening the chest to set off the treasture timer. According to my calculations, this cost Mike a whopping 1:52
  168. -> Mis-step in the desert leads to about a 1:02 loss
  170. -> Loses 53 seconds in battle with "TwinRova"...the last blow is almost dealt BUT he swings in the wrong direction, and we all know how much time goes by inbetween attacks !! Ah, well.
  172. -> Falls off "invisible" bridge in shadow temple, loses approx 40 seconds
  174. -> Mike was in too much of a hurry to battle "Bongo Bongo" and fell off thre (3) times on the way to dispatch him (it). Costly !! But I failed to write down by how much.
  176. -> In 1st battle with Ganon, the energy ball hits Link instead of rebounding off the sword. Damage taken, and perhaps 11-13 seconds lost.
  178. I am conservatively going to go on record as say that sub-5:40 may be possible, but definitely sub-5:45 for sure.
  180. But for the moment, the time to beat is 5:52:31, and the gamer of the moment is Michael Damiani. Congratulations on behalf of Twin Galaxies on a job well done...and well deserving of a rest after the marathon performance !!
  182. Robert
  184. ---
  186. TSA 2003 Aug 02
  188. "it's quite apparent below 5:40 is a possibility, but below 5:30 is not."
  190. ---
  192. Bottle dupe, gs dupe, and swordless link were known immediately back in the 90s
  193. Acute angle, seamwalking
  196. ---
  198. TwinGalaxies bans bottle duping in Aug 4th 2003
  200. ---
  204. TSA has segmented 5:41, SDA has appeared, will host next oot run.
  206. "The use of any glitch is banned. A glitch is any altering of the game's code, or exposing a game coding flaw. Design flaws, however, can be exposed."
  208. back then, there were not thousands of glitches, so it was easy to ban the few that came up.
  210. ---
  212. alexpenev tested FW trick in shadow, found it didnt work, thought it was because he was on PAL, its actually because the trick does not exist. Trick re-banned for not working on all versions, even though it doesn't work period.
  214. ---
  216. via Speedrunwiki
  218. The first public full speed run attempt of Ocarina resulted in a time of 5 hours 45 minutes (NTSC) and was obtained by Mike Damiani, probably in late 2003 or early 2004. This run was never fully converted to digital format as it was superseded in late March 2004 by Mike's first serious run, which gained him a time of 5 hours 25 minutes. On April 21, 2004, this became the first Zelda run to be hosted by the Speed Demos Archive, and brought Ocarina speed running to the attention of the speed-running community at large.
  220. ---
  222. 525 comments:
  224. It's here! Finally, you guys can watch it. Anyway, let's get some stuff out of the way. There is discontinuity in this run that probably nobody would notice, and even though it has zero effect on gameplay or time, I felt the need to still mention it. I "magically" have the Deku Nut icon in my sub menu somewhere through the run, but it reads as zero. How did I get them, and how did I dispose of them? I start/stop record my runs cuz these raw files use up a ton of memory, and I don't have the greatest hard drive in the world. So I have to conserve memory, and I break up files and send then as I do runs, and delete them after they are sent. Thus, it is a real one time run, but I interrupt recording, and we don't factor in the time to change to a new file. Anyway, about the nuts - I accidentally swang my sword in the Lost Woods before going to Goron City, and the bush gave me Deku Nuts. I exposed of them ASAP, and continued on. You will notice I nowhere before that time use them, and I in no way benefitted. So, I just wanted to explain that to you all. (Ed note: this is why the time was rounded up to 5:25 instead of down to 5:24)
  226. This STILL isn't the fastest run I could do, but it is pretty much the fastest route you can do. I mentally forgot to do four things I was suppose to in terms of shortcuts, and I lost about 4 mins thanks to them. I also made about five minutes worth of mistakes, so I think I can get at least 10 mins faster, or around 5:14. I mean, if I could use glitches, I could get sub 5 hours. If I was flawless, I could get close to 5 hours. Either way, with my four tricks I forgot (which I am sure most of you will decipher what they are when you're like "why didn't he do this here?" at certain spots) this is the fastest route. I'll help you out. Three of the tricks involve Farore's Wind, one involves a fighting decision. Again, I won't address the "Hyrule Field" issue of "hopping" vs "rolling". It's a very minor issue, it has very little effect on the run, we're talking about mere seconds you might save overall.
  228. This run is not flawless, so please enjoy yourselves and laugh at a few of my stupid mistakes (like jumping into a pit in the Shadow Temple). These mistakes each cost me seconds at most, but they added up in the end. There is about one mistake per segment you will notice. Remember, this is a five hour run. Your mind wanders eventually. I hope many of you learn the best fighting technique is, of course; Deku Sticks as Young Link, and the quick spin attack as Adult Link. In case you can't figure out from the video, if you execute it on every boss from Morpha on, you can keep hitting them until they die in one series of attacks. No BS. I get close on some, but I am only flawless on Phantom Ganon and Volvagia. I missed some spin attacks on Morhpa, but I had him cornered so he didn't escape, and I blew some chances on Twinrova, Bongo Bongo, and Ganondorf. I say they're not perfect, but most of you are going to go "holy crap, how did he do that?" That was my intent. Either way, this run is going to amaze pretty much everybody. I know people can beat this time now that they will see the best run, but I'm quite happy that I've pretty much come up with the fastest route and techniques, so I know they'll pretty much be credited to my strategy.
  230. If you wish to comment about this, please post here(Gmefaqs) or you may e-mail me or contanct me on AIM @ SolidTSASnake.
  232. ---
  234. Samsim, Jun 24 2004
  236. "In the Boss Key room in the Spirit Temple, don't mess around with switches and stuff. Just hurt yourself on the flame surrounding the chest, then run in and open it while you're temporarily invincible."
  238. ---
  240. Notes about the 5:25
  242. first public oot speedrun
  244. PART 1
  246. - went down ladder at links house
  247. - rolls weren't timed very well
  248. - really awful rupee route, i don't think knew about 5 behind the shop
  249. - no text skips in deku
  250. - damage invincibility for water room :v)
  251. - pushed the block all the way
  252. - no pcs, so the gohma strat was deku js, deku js, deku swing
  254. PART 2
  256. - roll across hyrule field
  257. - no chain rupees, probably not very notable
  258. - gets caught by guard to get malon to appear
  259. - doesn't shortcut past guard on bridge, so didn't get to push block before talon woke up
  260. - 2 crates
  261. - milk bottle, breaks jars on 2nd floor of LLR house LOL
  262. - no epona's song
  264. PART 3
  266. - doesn't know that the stick timer starts over if the stick touches fire
  267. - knows to kill wolfos in 1 hit
  268. - wrong path in sfm
  269. - didn't know about jump distance based on where your rolls stop
  270. - didnt know about backflipping down to DC
  271. - didn't know lizalfos strats
  272. - backflip up dc stairs
  273. - no textskip
  274. - no quick magic text
  276. PART 4
  278. - no cucco through waterfall
  279. - 2 bottles, no backtrack for fish heh heh
  280. - boomerang room strats, no deku nuts, use slingshot
  281. - 1hko miniboss
  282. - no slingshot strats/cool boomerang throw for last room
  283. - no deku nuts yet at barinade
  284. - doesn't know you can slash barinade's body to kill biris
  285. - doesn't know you can force barinade to resurface on final phase
  286. - slow blue warp I guess, very minor
  287. - dins in child 1
  289. PART 5
  291. - 56 dampé
  292. - hookshot -> zr (ride bean) -> ice cavern
  293. - 2 blue fires
  294. - no zora tunic : )
  296. PART 6
  298. - play saria's song for mido
  299. - no textskip/quicktext
  300. - no maze skip
  301. - doesn't know about pausing for the skulltulas
  302. - nice stalfos fight without shield
  303. - sorta odd fw route I guess
  304. - very slow poe sisters (no shield, deku nuts)
  305. - 8 seconds left on amy (24 is best I think)
  306. - interesting PG strat, jumpslash -> quickspins
  308. PART 7
  310. - spliced deku nuts into his run ??? Lol
  311. - goron tunic + 2 bottles
  312. - no small key skip
  313. - no arrows on volvagia, 4 cycle.
  315. PART 8
  317. - no early small key in WT
  318. - obtains key in central pillar basement
  319. - backtracks for key by ruto
  320. - no highjump, uses a key
  321. - uses hammer for darklink
  323. - no waterfall jump (wasnt discovered for a long time I think)
  324. - skips pushing block 2 rooms before WT BK
  325. - 5 key water temple.
  326. - 1 cycle morpha, quickspins + slashes.
  328. PART 9
  330. - splices video right before wasteland without lens
  331. - backflipping on 2nd phase of iron knuckles
  332. - kill floormaster
  333. - slow spirit boss key (no invincibility)
  334. - no manipulating twinrova 1st phase
  335. - 2 cycle twinrova 2nd phase ( no pcs )
  337. PART 10
  339. - spliced before shadow (pause on map screen)
  340. - "epic" dead hand fight
  341. - probably spliced truth spinner lol
  342. - pulls block
  343. - pulls other block (doesn't jump to boat or hookshot ladder)
  344. - dins fire for bk
  345. - knew about 1 cycle bongo, failed it
  347. PART 11
  349. - pushin lots of blocks in water trial
  350. - knew about 1 cycle, failed it
  351. - hammer on ganon
  352. - regular slashes on tail on 2nd phase
  354. Overall route:
  355. Deku, ZL, Milk bottle, goron city, lw warp, saria's song, bracelet, dc, zr (plant bean), ruto's letter, jabu, down zr, oot, adult
  357. hookshot (no hylian shield), zr, ice cavern, lw warp, forest temple, goron city warp, goron tunic, bolero, fire, walk to tot, prelude, serenade, water temple, req, spirit child, spirit adult, prelude, nocturne, shadow, ganon's castle
  359. END OF 5:25
  361. ---
  363. speedrunwiki:
  365. On September 5, 2004, after extensive research and radical route-restructuring, Mike reduced his record to 5 hours 4 minutes, coming within an ace of breaking the barely-reachable five hour barrier. Mike said (lied) that he would never speed-run Ocarina again.
  367. TG
  370. ---
  372. SDA comments:
  374. I will have to say this was my most intensive run ever. First, I would like to thank a lot of people who helped make this run possible: Sam Sim and PYLemire or, and Black_Hole of ZHQ. Without their input, this run would not have been possible. I'd also like to thank a lot of people who sent in their suggestions after viewing the original run.
  376. This run truly is, in my opinion, the greatest speed run I have ever done. I came within 285 seconds of doing the impossible, which is beating this game in under five hours. Unless a major breakthrough by somebody is made, which I doubt will happen, this is the fastest single segment run I can do. In actuality, even with saving, I do not feel under SDA's timing that sub five hours is possible. Maybe if they have emulator recording and save state videos one day, such a video will exist. Under Twin Galaxies' timing, sub five hour I do not believe is possible, under any circumstances.
  378. This run is pretty much error free. One "mistake" might be the "block pushing" near Hyrule Castle, where I could have just pushed one block instead of two, to cross the moat. But in my version, on trial runs, I could not cross the moat this way. In Goron's City, when I am getting the Prelude of Light (en route), I used the longshot to go up the left side, rather than the right. I also didn't have a good as a boss battle with Phantom Ganon as in the last. However, these are mere seconds I missed saving. They do not in total add up to even a significant percent of the additional time I needed to save to break five hours.
  380. I know people will argue that some of the 285 seconds "may" have been saved by "side hopping" and "back flipping" all the time. Well, when you play 5 hours and can do that flawlessly, be my guest. It's not going to save you those nearly 5 minutes of time. This isn't a 2D game where you can have precise input with a device like an emulator to make perfect runs. There will never be a perfect run in this game. If you see somebody claim one exists, send them to me and I'll point out the mistakes.
  382. I would like to take a moment to say how much I love the quick spin attack, as I finally owned Bongo Bongo and Ganondorf. I feel the Ganondorf fight in particular will amaze everyone. I also utilized all the strategies I could think of for the dungeons. These are the best dungeon strategies around. The over world route was also new. Sam Sim came up with the new dungeon order and the revised Water Temple route, although I amended it a bit. I would like to also comment on the "Shadow Temple Farore's Wind" warp trick. You see, Farore's Wind is a clever thing, but too clever for its own good. When you set a Warp Point with it, not only does it set it at the entrance of the last door you went through (or entrance of dungeon), it also saves the "state" of the room. My best example of the negative side of this is in the Spirit Temple, the rooms with the Lizalfos, the mirrors, and the light you must reflect through different areas. It is faster to set Farore's Wind in the room with the "platform" that lowers into the room with the statue, then do the mirrors, and warp back. If you do this, you will find you not only warp back to the entrance closer to where you need to be, but that none of the mirrors are "changed". It's as if you did nothing. Now, back to the Shadow Temple. If you fall into that area down by that room with the ship, Farore's Wind will always set back up in the spinning blade room above. No exceptions. I'm not sure who "claimed" this trick worked first, or that it worked on certain versions, but I, along with you all, were tricked. This trick does not work, in any version.
  384. With this, I am announcing I am done with speed running Ocarina of Time. Feel free to try to beat this time all you want, but I will not be attempting anymore runs on this game. I'm glad to say I probably am never going to play this game again. Time for it to collect dust in my drawer. But that's not the end of my speed runs! I think I'm heading back into the Dark World for my next run...
  386. If you wish to comment about this, please post here or you may e-mail me or contanct me on AIM @ SolidTSASnake.
  388. ---
  390. notable stuff:
  392. Watch the 5:25 and 5:04, samsim figured out the water temple / dungeon order stuff, the rest was probably TSA
  394. ---
  396. run notes for 5:04
  398. PART 1
  399. - no intro cutscene
  400. - backflips off ladder this time
  401. - still rough rupee route
  402. - rupee behind counter
  403. - 10 sticks, damn
  404. - splice entering deku tree
  405. - adding sidehops to the run, altho they are slow
  406. - no vine text skip
  407. - no door text skip
  408. - no block text skip
  409. - same gohma strat (2 deku js, 1 deku swing)
  410. - 10 sticks after deku
  412. PART 2
  413. - roll across field again
  414. - owl then reload the castle to get malon to appear
  415. - splice found at hyrule castle, map screen
  416. - 2 boxes again
  417. - no lonlon ranch this time
  418. - still doesn't know about how deku stick timer works
  419. - ??? wolfos in multiple hits, but he 1 shot it last run
  420. - still right path in sfm
  421. - backflips down
  423. PART 3
  424. - lizalfos strats
  425. - no razor text skip
  426. - map screen splice at bomb equip
  427. - stopping for wallskulltula is still not known?
  428. - no quickmagic
  429. - no chicken thru waterfall
  431. PART 4
  432. - slow boomerang room again
  433. - still slow last switch (doesnt even sidehop down)
  434. - 2nd phase hits body w/ quickspins
  435. - doesn't roll into last phase
  436. - dins in child 1
  438. PART 5
  439. - another 56 dampé
  440. - map screen splice after goron tunic
  442. PART 6
  443. - map screen splice in fire temple
  444. - still uncertain about damage values
  445. - no small key skip, that was found way later
  446. - fw down to sot block lol ?
  447. - 4 cycle volvagia
  448. - still no mido skip
  449. - no text skip sfm / no quicktext / no maze skip
  451. PART 7
  452. - another splice forest temple
  453. - kinda slow poes but he knows he can hit them multiple times
  454. - 8 sec left on Amy again.
  456. PART 8
  457. - jump from side in ice cavern
  459. PART 9
  460. - no cracked wall early
  461. - FW and serenade after key 1
  462. - I suppose it wasn't known how to reach the top of the water temple except through the entrance, so samsim came up with playing serenade to reach the top again.
  463. - return to FW after middle key, cracked wall is key#3
  464. - I also guess the jump to the highest water level wasn't known either, so uses a key to get up.
  465. - hammer dark link
  466. - still goes long way around to boss key (I think this wasn't found for quite awhile)
  467. - 1 cycle morpha like the 5:25
  469. PART 10
  470. - wasteland splice. again.
  471. - another splice equipping dins
  473. PART 11
  474. - splice entering shadow temple
  475. - kills the dead hands, js/backflip strat not known / no mashing out either ?
  476. - pushes block
  477. - pushes other block again
  478. - 1 cycle bongo (quickspins)
  480. PART 12
  481. - more cheating blah blah
  482. - no flame storage in child spirit
  483. - throw bomb at iron knuckle LOL
  484. - still doesn't know about 2nd phase of iron knuckles
  486. PART 13
  487. - cheating again
  488. - samsim's BK strat was used.
  489. - no hookshot strats on twinrova
  490. - 2 cycle twinrova (quickspins)
  492. PART 14
  493. - cheating again
  494. - slow forest, water trials
  496. PART 15
  497. - 1 cycle dorf w/ quickspins
  498. - map splice
  499. - no jumpslashes on mr ganon
  501. adult route
  502. hookshot (no shield) -> goron tunic -> bolero -> fire temple -> lw warp -> minuet -> forest temple -> lw warp to ZR -> ice cavern -> serenade -> water temple -> gerudo's card -> requiem -> play bolero -> nocturne -> prelude -> shadow -> child spirit ->
  504. ---
  508. TSA jan 09 2005
  510. 1.  I know on my Ocarina of Time run, the initial rupee collection path can be improved, the Deku Stick gathering can be spaced out to incorporate different locations to save time, and I know there are, of course, the route mistakes.  That would be not using the block to jump over the moat, not drawing the Master Sword and going to the Spirit Temple when I was getting the Prelude of Light, and a wrong hookshot maneuver to the opposite side of Goron City.  Again, the thing I stated was in a single segment run, I doubt anyone could beat my time by any significant margin unless a new major breakthrough came out.  Segmented runs, of course, could gain mins on my time, but really don't show as much overall skill, in my opinion.
  512. 2. Skipping the Blue Mail in ALttP is the most obvious thing to do to beat my time.  People brought up doing the Swamp Ruins before Misery Mire after getting the flippers, so that I would have the hookshot in Misery Mire.  It would save the time it took me to side-dash the blocks to bounce over that gap.  Besides these two things, I'm not sure what other obvious things exist to improve the time.
  514. 3. There is a penalty for using the UP+A tactic.  You revert to 3 filled hearts, no matter how many you had filled before.  So you will be going on fewer filled hearts.
  516. ---
  518. On July 17, 2005, after even further research and micro-optimisation, Mike again broke his own record and obtained a new record of 4 hours 57 minutes. Mike again announced that he was done forever with speed running OoT, although he is currently working on a segmented run.
  520. ---
  522. ---
  524. 457
  526. This is the greatest speed run I have ever done, period. I should retire now because I will never outdo this speed run. By all comparisons, I suck at the other Zelda games when compared to this one. I may not view it as the best Zelda game of all time, but I sure as hell view it as the greatest Zelda game to speed run. Many thanks are in order, as this run was the culmination of an entire community. Acryte and FierceLinkMaster for bringing up some really high precision tricks that paid off nicely. Thanks to SamSim for refining the Ocarina of Time route and for being an Ocarina of Time guru. Thanks to the guys who supported this run, since I know the Ocarina of Time runs are extremely popular with the gaming community. Hopefully this run is worth being mentioned in the same breadth as some of the awesome runs in existence, and makes up for my average runs on the other Zelda games.
  527. If you want to know how the hell I did something like this, beyond the help of the great people who aided me along the way, the answer is "no life". Not anymore, of course! But back in the day, I played Ocarina of Time more times than I can count. I was quoted as saying I played this game for 10,000+ hours, when in actuality, it's probably closer to 25,000 hours. I mean I played this game non-stop for over two years. It's not even a matter of ability anymore when it comes to Ocarina of Time. It's just part of my nature when it comes to this game, it's just so natural. I'm sure there are others out there who share this same experience with other games.
  528. The goal of this run was not simply to get under five hours. It was a given this would happen with the plethora of tricks revealed in the wake of my 5:04 run. The goal of this run was to emulate the greatness and high level of skill seen in such videos as the Super Mario 64 video, the Mega Man Zero videos, or the 007 Goldeneye Videos. I wanted to show that I could do something that great in this game.
  529. I will, as a courtesy for this being my last Ocarina of Time run, and probably the last single-segment, minimalist run to be done, break down the entire run. I was considering doing an audio track, but Radix wasn't going to host two separate versions of the run. So this will have to make do.
  530. Before getting into the area comments, I need to explain something many of you casual gamers or even some hardcore Zelda fans probably won't get. Why the hell am I "crouching" and "stabbing" at an enemy? Where are all the quick spins? Well, brought up by FierceLinkMaster (though the original discoverer is yet to be found), there is a way to trick out Link's attacks through a weird bug that is later fixed by Majora's Mask. If you perform any attack, if you crouch after it and don't use any other items or swing your sword again before crouching, you can preserve the strength of that attack "stabbing" while you crouch. This trick is known as the Power Crouch Stab. So for the Gohma battle, I jump attack once with the Deku Stick, and then crouch stab twice. Those two crouch stabs had the power of a jump attack with a Deku Stick. Saves you items, and it's faster. The only downside is that unlike the Quick Spin Attack, it is not quick enough to keep enemies down. However, this problem doesn't arise till Adult Link's bosses, and then the Power Crouch Stab has uses. For bosses in which Quick Spins don't work and you can get in multiple hits, such as Phantom Ganon, you can get in multiple Jump Attack level strikes quickly. For enemies that can stay down but only by Quick Spins, it is best to use the Power Crouch Stab and then after a few convert over to quick spins. This is done on Bongo Bongo and Ganondorf. Anyway, I wanted to clarify that so you don't think it is cheating or some cheat code. Onto the area comments!
  531. Kokiri Forest: The rupee route is unmatched. This is the fastest rupee route. It's not as easy as it looks to do, it's a lot of quick adjustments to perform back walks and side hops.
  532. Great Deku Tree: It is possible to do some more high precision tricks on this stage, but they are meant for a segmented run or a future TAS, should we come to that some day. The strategy for getting the Slingshot is faster than my previous attempt. Also, I execute getting up to the ledge a bit faster from the block in the water room. I also use the lit Deku Stick in a much more efficient way when lighting the web to get to the hole to crawl through. I also light the Deku Stick in the room with the web on the floor much more quickly with the mid-air equip after jumping at the torch. I wonder if that torch was put there for this very reason. The power crouch stab on Queen Gohma is the fastest way to beat her without using codes or cheats.
  533. Hyrule Field: Back walking pays off. I get into the castle market without the music ending.
  534. Hyrule Castle: Notice how you can pull out the Cucco during that text, rather than waiting for it to end. I pull off the jump attack to the edge with only pushing one block slightly over the edge of the moat. I also think you will be impressed with the strategy to get passed the guards. It's very high precision and timing is crucial. It's extremely difficult to pull off.
  535. Kakariko Village/Death Mountain: Back walking in one shot to the entrance of Kakariko is very crucial. I could have done more back walking in Kakariko, but I figure it wasn't worth the mistake if I was off course. Scaling Death Mountain also benefits from back walking.
  536. Sacred Forest Meadow: I could have been slightly faster in the maze part, but back walking up the steps to get passed the last two Deku Scrubs is nice. I could have been quicker navigating the Lost Woods.
  537. Dodongo's Cavern: Back walking to the ladder is faster than waiting for the platforms to rise. Back walking in the Baby Dodongo chamber also is a plus. You only need to fight off one Lizalfos and the remaining one will not flee. This preserves your Deku Sticks, even though two per enemy would be faster, but the time to get extra Deku Sticks outweighs this option. Better bomb choice in the stairs room with the bombs. Text skip trick in the spike trap maze before you have to toss a bomb at a wall. I pulled off tossing both bombs into the eyes. I had a slightly faster Dodongo Battle by being closer to him, tossing bombs earlier, and hitting him earlier.
  538. Death Mountain Summit: I messed up near the very end of back walking in the rock falling part, but it was nothing major. Back walked to Fairy steps, triggered Ocarina Song sequence earlier.
  539. Zora's River/Zora's Domain: Faster navigation of river using Cucco. Took a bit more time to get extra Deku Sticks and Deku Seeds, but it pays off later. Back walked up steps to King Zora.
  540. Inside Jabu-Jabu's Belly: Discovered some cool tricks like reaching the Spiritual Stone early, but nothing helped. Better fights, better boss battle helped.
  541. Temple of Time: Long cut scene, but I skip Din's Fire for later.
  542. Graveyard/Goron City: I wasn't trying to set any record against Dampe because you don't have the hookshot anyway. I got Hylian Shield so I could do Power Crouch Stabs as Adult.
  543. Fire Temple: Cut out some uses of Farore's Wind, improved time on the Flame Dancers.
  544. Sacred Forest Meadow: Faster navigation, though one of the Moblins gets me at the end, though I use an invincibility trick to get back at him.
  545. Forest Temple: New route, though I don't know how much time it really saved. The other route was cooler abusing the Twisted Corridor. A better Poe Battles thanks to quick spins. Improved Phantom Ganon battle, even better than the video you all saw on the EGM DVD.
  546. Ice Cavern: Like that high precision trick on the blocks?
  547. Water Temple: New strategy. I hope you like it. This now makes the Water Temple the shortest temple to complete by far. I improved the Morpha battle.
  548. Gerudo's Fortress/Haunted Wasteland: New fighting strategy on Gerudo Guards, but I think it is just as fast and perhaps cornering them would be the fastest way. New way across Haunted Wasteland without Lens of Truth, I hope this impresses people.
  549. Warp back to Young Link: Get Din's Fire now, saves time so you can warp away.
  550. Spirit Temple (Child): Use Power Crouch Stab on Iron Knuckle to save time.
  551. Shadow Temple: I lose time at one spot because my theory in my 5:04 video was not correct. In fact, you can only guess on the Bird Statue part near the beginning. I get it on 3rd guess, which is not so bad. I make up the time with a nice trick in the spiked ceiling room with the block in the invisible wall. Damage boosts rule in Zelda. The Bongo Bongo battle is the fight of the game.
  552. Spirit Temple (Adult): Koume and Kotake battle was awesome thanks to me figuring out a small strategy change. You spot the one that will shoot you with magic in first person mode, then in 3rd person, tilt Link around to eye the other if it is not in site. If you keep the one firing in your peripheral, and find the other, just hold the shield out then and you at least have a shot at hitting them, instead of times when you face forward and don't see the other and have to guess.
  553. Ganon's Castle: A few small improvements on the trials.
  554. Ganondorf Battle: Eck, mistake of the run. Why didn't he do what he was supposed to at the start? Oh well. Took two attack sequences to beat him because I fail to continue quick spinning (hands are tired by now folks). Funny thing is the battle time is about the same as my 5:04, meaning if I executed this strategy perfectly, it's probably 20 more seconds shaved off.
  555. Ganon Battle: There is a more advanced strategy by standing under his legs the entire time and swinging your hammer, but I didn't risk it. Ganon runs into a wall and slashes at it, causing some loss. Somebody told me Light Arrows do more damage, but that wasn't true, but it didn't slow me down. Nothing special about the fight.
  556. With this, sadly (or happily for you competitors), I am forever done with speed running Ocarina of Time, even if somebody beats this time. I have no plans at the moment to do Master Quest because it is on GCN and I hate the GCN controller for all the Zelda games on it (see TWW comments). I'm not sure when I will begin my next run, but I now plan to achieve a sub 32 (or close to it) run of The Legend of Zelda for NES. If you are wondering, should I claim the Legend of Zelda title again, I will also retire from speed running that game as well. I think I will then do a final run of The Adventure of Link after that. By the time I finish these next two runs, Twilight Princess should be coming out. I know you all are looking forward to that game. I might have a present in store for you all, too.
  557. If you wish to talk about this run, or Zelda in general, you can IM me at ZeldaSpeedRuns.
  559. ---
  561. 457 comments:
  563. - BACKWALKING@!!!!
  564. - spamming backflips for no reason!
  565. - 3 deku sticks, not 10
  566. - no vine text skip still
  567. - no door text skip
  568. - I need to go check thread to see if text skips were known
  569. - changes to shoot ladder for slingshot room
  570. - didnt push block all the way
  571. - slingshot -> deku js -> pcs -> pcs gohma fight
  572. - skipping Deku Tree heart container.
  574. - hyrule field backwalk
  575. - backwalking was "new" and is uncomfortable
  576. - 1 box
  577. - STILL doesn't know about torch timer thing
  578. - throw bombflower + backflip at same time (messed up though)
  579. - loses shield in DC
  580. - no bomb refill this time at end of DC
  581. - quick magic!!!!!!!!
  583. - no cucco behind waterfall
  584. - still a slow boomerang fight.
  585. - still slow last room
  587. - shield in graveyard
  588. - 56 again
  590. - fire temple FW to SoT block still..
  591. - another 4 cycle volvagia
  593. some notes about fire temple
  594. - small key skip is not discovered until later
  595. - skipping the pillar is not discovered until later (but not much later)
  597. - hookshot up goron city this time
  598. - no mido skip yet
  599. - SFM TEXT SKIP! ! ! !
  600. - no maze skip
  601. - shield for poes Lol
  602. - no nuts for poes
  603. - 1 cycle poes
  604. - 10 sec amy puzzle
  606. lower water
  607. bow key
  608. fw to top
  609. 2nd water level
  610. cracked wall key
  611. hookshot up
  612. jump to ledge (skip small key)
  613. dark link
  614. summary: 4 key WT w/ backtrack for cracked wall key. does long way to boss key.
  615. morpha w/ crouch stabs in corner
  617. dins in child 2 then play requiem.
  618. good IK strats
  620. poor dead hand strats still
  621. kills hands for no reason
  622. tried first truth spinner
  623. trap jump
  624. didnt push block this time
  625. 1 cycle bongo (weird thingies) (hold down at start of fight )
  627. no hookshot strats on twinrova
  628. 1 cycle twinrova
  630. new route forest trial
  631. gainer was not known
  633. climb up strats for dorf
  634. pcs -> quickspins
  636. on ganon, doesn't use hammer power crouch stab to finish first phase in 3 hits.
  637. still no JS on tail
  642. overall route
  643. - hookshot (get shield), goron tunic, bolero, fire temple, goron city warp, minuet, forest temple, lw warp, ice cavern, serenade, water temple, requiem, play bolero, get nocturne, prelude, dins, child spirit, shadow, adult spirit, prelude -> ganons castle
  645. Major points from TSA's runs:
  647. 1. Skipping Biggoron Sword
  648. - casual player might want to get it or somehow assume it is worth it to get it, because of the time saved in combat but way the hell slower in reality.
  650. 2. Skipping the Zora Tunic
  651. - casual player would assume you need it to pass the Water Temple
  653. 3. Skipping Lens of Truth
  654. - bigger one, memorizing how rooms work in Shadow Temple / memorizing wasteland path via the terrain / experience with killing Bongo without lens.
  656. 4. Dungeon Order
  657. - not immediately obvious what you can and cannot do in what order.
  659. 5. Skipping Epona
  660. - casual player might assume you need it to cross the Gerudo bridge, but you can longshot across.
  662. 6. Skipping Fire Arrow
  663. - casual player might assume this is required to pass parts of Ganon's castle, but there are workarounds.
  665. --
  667. Next major points:
  669. Movement
  670. - rolling is faster than walking
  671. - timed rolling is faster than mash rolling
  673. - sidehopping is fast, but getting the angle you need can be hard.
  674. - timing it can be hard
  676. - backwalking
  677. - not known for awhile, needs a long stretch to be worth it usually.
  679. Fighting
  680. - deku stick is as powerful as Master Sword
  681. - quickpins can be good
  682. - jumpslash does double
  683. - can 1 cycle bosses
  684. - power crouch stab
  686. Gohma
  687. - Slingshot stuns longer than Nuts
  688. - Deku JS -> Deku JS -> Deku Slash
  689. - Deku JS -> PCS -> PCS
  691. King Dodongo
  692. - 2x Deku JS / PCS
  694. Barinade
  695. - attack body on phase 2 kills biris
  696. - stun immediately on phase 3
  697. - deku nuts can kill the biris faster (wasn't used)
  698. - wasn't known about getting hit on last phase.
  700. PG -> sound + visual
  702. Volvagia -> TSA 4 cycled every time, arrows were later
  703. bomb strat is way later
  705. Morpha -> trap in corner
  707. Bongo -> 1 cycle is possible
  709. Twinrova -> hookshot strats not used for awhile, 1 cycle is possible after pcs.
  711. Ganondorf -> quickspins to hold him down. climb on main plat for quick hit
  712. pcs / isg later
  714. Ganon -> slow
  715. superslide into cutscene
  716. hammer pcs
  718. ---
  720. speedrunwiki:
  722. On November 15, 2006, Mauri Mustonen, with a PAL system and utilizing several new tricks found since, broke Mike's record, obtaining the current single-segment world record of 4 hours 46 minutes.
  724. ---
  726. TwinGalaxies
  728. Shadow temple FW "banned glitch" that doesn't exist:
  731. Stephen Kohler claimed if you use FW in cage, it will place FW at the door down below, it doesn't actually do that cause he came in from that door. TwinGalaxies banned this trick, even though it doesn't work.
  748. TSA 4.57
  755. February 2005: StefanvanDijke says that it is possible to enter Jabu Jabu without a fish.
  756. February 2005: Minuet of Forest skip using Longshot. By FierceLinkMaster
  757. February 20 2005: Radix finds the torch trick in the Deku Tree. Armos Statues in Dodongo's Cavern to reach the button faster.
  758. August 11 2005: Skip the Iron Knuckle fight before the Mirror Shield in the Spirit Temple. By Acryte.
  759. March 3 2006: Early Shadow Temple. Found by Kazooie
  760. March 6 2006: Aka found out that you only need the Shadow and Spirit medallions.
  761. March 17 2006: Early Bottom of the Well without using Song of Storms. By YautjaElder
  762. March 20 2006: Gerudo Bridge skip with Cucco. Found by Kazooie
  763. March 20 2006: Castle Moat with Bombchus. Found by Kazooie
  764. March 21 2006: Manocheese confirms that you can skip Goron Bracelets by getting the Silver Gauntlets instead.
  765. March 24 2006: Dekudude comes up with the Cucco cutscene dive, for early Bottom of the Well. Petrie confirms that this is indeed working. Kazooie later said that he had found it before, but not mentioning it.
  766. March 2006: Kazooie discovers Farore's Wind Dive.
  767. April 2006: Ground Jump by Kazooie
  768. 15 December 2007: Cosmo uploads how to escape the Deku Forest, hovering method.
  769. 27 March 2008: Early Master Sword, by Kazooie.
  771. February 9, 2005: FierceLinkMaster says he is able to skip almost a whole dungeon. Which and how, he didn't say.
  772. February 12, 2005: FLM says he found a way to become invincible
  773. February 2005: FLM mentioned that you can get Golden Scale as a child.
  776. Some old topics:
  787. TSA 5:25 (spliced, deku nut lie)
  789. fierce tells TSA about PCS
  791. TSA 5:04
  792. TSA 4:57
  794. mitjitsu run
  797. cs run
  799. ---
  801. first japanese player runs
  805. 5:05, this was after TSA's 4:57, on english.
  814. ???
  816. Kazooie arrives on the scene
  817. - damage boosting
  818. - shadow early (kazooie)
  819. - trials skip (acryte)
  823. TheHeroMX - Infinite Sword Glitch
  825. Kazooie says it is old in the comments.
  827. [14:49:47] <@ZFG> the first video of hovering according to fierce
  830. - cucco jump, child wasteland, bombchus early
  832. - segmented or bust :(
  834. Swordlesslink: I was TASing Majora's Mask and I was doing the Deku Palace and I did a superslide, right? Then after that, I was trying to change angle to get into the maze part and he just slid!!!! I was like, wtf?! Then a few months went by before I analysed it more and found that you had to hold a little bit off neutral to change angles and keep the slide
  836. - Gregortixlkyns warped from deku -> dc, discovered temp flags
  837. - mzxrules?? finds temp flag in ganons tower
  838. - sockfolder makes it possible.
  839. '
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