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Jumbucks Slack, LBRY Dev AMA

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  1.  
  2. julian [3:00 PM]
  3. OK, i guess we can officially start the LBRY AMA @here
  4.  
  5. kamelnomics [3:00 PM]
  6. Hello
  7.  
  8. eleven [3:01 PM]
  9. Woop woop!
  10.  
  11. stickie [3:01 PM]
  12. hi
  13.  
  14. jack.robison [3:01 PM]
  15. Hello all
  16.  
  17. finer9 [3:01 PM]
  18. Hey folks - so a lot of you know me and have already heard me shill LBRY.io a bit.  @kauffj is our glorious CEO and we also have another founder/lead dev here, @jimmyk (hope that's the right jimmy)
  19.  
  20. [3:01]
  21. Oh and @jack.robison dev extraordinaire as well
  22.  
  23. dogedoggertonog [3:02 PM]
  24. Shill away!
  25.  
  26. julian [3:02 PM]
  27. maybe you can let us all know about what LBRY is too
  28.  
  29. finer9 [3:02 PM]
  30. @kauffj I'll let you intro LBRY itself?
  31.  
  32. julian [3:02 PM]
  33. assuming we don't have a clue
  34.  
  35. kauffj [3:02 PM]
  36. welcome all!
  37.  
  38. julian [3:02 PM]
  39. welcome
  40.  
  41. kauffj [3:02 PM]
  42. so if you were my grand mom i'd say LBRY is a box that you type in and can instantly watch a movie or install a game
  43.  
  44. [3:02]
  45. but what really makes LBRY remarkable is that it's powered by a completely decentralized system
  46.  
  47. [3:03]
  48. so discovery, access, and payment are all extremely robust to censorship
  49.  
  50. [3:04]
  51. you can kind of think of it as bitcoin + bittorrent, but it's actually a lot more than that
  52.  
  53. [3:04]
  54. LBRY is actually a protocol and completely open source
  55.  
  56. [3:04]
  57. we think it will become the cheapest + best way to discover and pay for any movie, book, game, or other static piece of information
  58.  
  59. [3:05]
  60. and at some point we'll have to get into the naming scheme, which is one of the most innovative/exciting parts
  61.  
  62. finer9 [3:05 PM]
  63. Many of you are probably already thinking about storj, maid, alexandria, etc .. yes there are similarities but there are interesting differences too
  64.  
  65. [3:06]
  66. <song and dance>
  67.  
  68. [3:06]
  69. <crickets>
  70.  
  71. kauffj [3:06 PM]
  72. i can just start asking myself questions
  73.  
  74. julian [3:06 PM]
  75. what is the incentive for people to put content on LBRY?
  76.  
  77. kauffj [3:07 PM]
  78. as a content creator or artist, the incentive is to have more control and retain a larger % of profit
  79.  
  80. rezman5 [3:07 PM]
  81. joined #general
  82.  
  83. outragedhuman [3:07 PM]
  84. Do you guys already have a working platform, are you looking for inventors (ICO/ITO/VC style?), how much code has already been done?
  85.  
  86. kauffj [3:07 PM]
  87. we are in test net, fully working alpha
  88.  
  89. cryptokrill [3:07 PM]
  90. How does lbry plan to deal w illegal content?
  91.  
  92. kauffj [3:07 PM]
  93. i'm obviously a terrible shiller because i haven't even mentioned that we have great rewards for alpha testers
  94.  
  95. outragedhuman [3:07 PM]
  96. Working GUI or have to be a programmer to use it?
  97.  
  98. jack.robison [3:07 PM]
  99. The incentive is that they see lbry as a great content delivery and discovery platform, and they want their content to be seen by the maximum number of eyes
  100.  
  101. stickie [3:07 PM]
  102. What keeps someone from uploading a copy of your work and making money off of it?
  103.  
  104. kauffj [3:07 PM]
  105. and if you use os x or linux, you should go to lbry.io/get to install and test it yourself
  106.  
  107. jack.robison [3:08 PM]
  108. The reason why it's a great content platform is rooted in the incentives underlying it
  109.  
  110. kauffj [3:08 PM]
  111. @outragedhuman: we ​*just*​ released our first GUI, os x only there
  112.  
  113. [3:08]
  114. but we'll have GUI on all OSes very soon
  115.  
  116. finer9 [3:08 PM]
  117. win one is getting there
  118.  
  119. vqp [3:08 PM]
  120. joined #general
  121.  
  122. outragedhuman [3:08 PM]
  123. gotcha
  124.  
  125. kauffj [3:08 PM]
  126. @stickie great q, a big part of preventing this is the naming scheme in LBRY
  127.  
  128. outragedhuman [3:08 PM]
  129. And you've done what you have so far from your own funds, or you got some help from somewhere?
  130.  
  131. [3:08]
  132. feel free to answer in any order, i won't be offended
  133.  
  134. kauffj [3:09 PM]
  135. in LBRY, names are not owned, but controlled by the person(s)/parties that have committed the most credits
  136.  
  137. [3:09]
  138. when you commit credits to control a name, they are in a sort of escrow that can be revoked at any time
  139.  
  140. finer9 [3:09 PM]
  141. We have invested our own money but are in the middle of an 'angel' round of investment right now
  142.  
  143. outragedhuman [3:09 PM]
  144. kk
  145.  
  146. finer9 [3:09 PM]
  147. There is also a forthcoming (SoonTM) crowd sale
  148.  
  149. kauffj [3:09 PM]
  150. this means that if someone is using a name like "spiderman" to profit off of content they don't have the rights to, the right holder can fairly immediately seize control
  151.  
  152. stickie [3:10 PM]
  153. interesting
  154.  
  155. cryptokrill [3:10 PM]
  156. Will the total number of credits be fixed  from the start?
  157.  
  158. kauffj [3:10 PM]
  159. this is inspired by nobel prize winning coase theorem, and renowned economist Alex Tabarrok agrees names will flow to those who can get the most value (i.e. the rights holder)
  160.  
  161. jack.robison [3:10 PM]
  162. The idea behind the name scheme is the coase theorem
  163.  
  164. kauffj [3:10 PM]
  165. @outragedhuman: a lot of sweat equity but some significant financial investment as well
  166.  
  167. finer9 [3:10 PM]
  168. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem
  169. 1  
  170.  
  171. [3:10]
  172. :simple_smile:
  173.  
  174. kauffj [3:10 PM]
  175. we are working on closing a 200k round
  176.  
  177. outragedhuman [3:10 PM]
  178. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_theorem
  179.  
  180. kauffj [3:10 PM]
  181. @finer9 can you dig up and link deck?
  182.  
  183. finer9 [3:10 PM]
  184. @outragedhuman: lol
  185.  
  186. outragedhuman [3:10 PM]
  187. lol beat me
  188.  
  189. finer9 [3:10 PM]
  190. Yes
  191.  
  192. rezman5 [3:10 PM]
  193. And how does one acquire more credits, if they are fixed to start? Hits on content? Uploads? Content creation?
  194.  
  195. kauffj [3:11 PM]
  196. @cryptokrill yes, fixed number of credits
  197.  
  198. cryptokrill [3:11 PM]
  199. Total count has already been identified or still under consideration?
  200.  
  201. kauffj [3:11 PM]
  202. @rezman5 you can earn credits from mining, providing your disk space, providing bandwidth, or publishing content
  203.  
  204. jack.robison [3:12 PM]
  205. @rezman5: both
  206.  
  207. [3:12]
  208. Hosting and mining
  209.  
  210. [3:12]
  211. Coins are only created through mining
  212.  
  213. sicarious [3:12 PM]
  214. Thanks for doing the AMA, @kauffj!  I'm late to the party, but reading up the thread now. Great stuff so far
  215.  
  216. kauffj [3:12 PM]
  217. @cryptokrill 1 billion http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/drevil_cover.jpg (25KB)
  218.  
  219.  
  220. dogedoggertonog [3:12 PM]
  221. Also for mining?
  222.  
  223. outragedhuman [3:12 PM]
  224. So it's sort of an amalgamation of storj and alexandria
  225.  
  226. cryptokrill [3:12 PM]
  227. Lol k cool
  228.  
  229. julian [3:13 PM]
  230. installing LBRY alpha now on os x
  231.  
  232. outragedhuman [3:13 PM]
  233. I like that idea
  234.  
  235. finer9 [3:13 PM]
  236. @julian let us know when It's a Wonderful Life plays :simple_smile:
  237.  
  238. sicarious [3:13 PM]
  239. At Christmas my wife and I watched It's a Wonderful Life using LBRY :simple_smile:
  240.  
  241. jack.robison [3:13 PM]
  242. Awesome! @julian
  243.  
  244. kauffj [3:13 PM]
  245. @outragedhuman: there are similarities for sure, neither have our naming/discovery mechanisms
  246.  
  247. sicarious [3:13 PM]
  248. she thought i was so weird, lol
  249.  
  250. kauffj [3:13 PM]
  251. we think they make incentive mistakes
  252.  
  253. finer9 [3:13 PM]
  254. @sicarious nice
  255.  
  256. [3:13]
  257. We think a Chromecast integration may be doable
  258.  
  259. jack.robison [3:14 PM]
  260. On a more econ level you could say many projects are trying to base themselves on some digital consumable
  261.  
  262. [3:14]
  263. Lbry is distinct because it's not commoditizing bandwidth nor disk space
  264.  
  265. kauffj [3:14 PM]
  266. tipbot tip @sicarious 1 jbs
  267.  
  268.  
  269. tipbot BOT [3:14 PM]
  270. @kauffj tipped @sicarious 1.0 JBS
  271. wooo a 1.0 JBS tip!
  272. ----------------
  273. https://chainz.cryptoid.info/jbs/tx.dws?a56000f39e734cfee68ff04ff78ee43c9ec31e7dc2c386b2b5b71be90a0d5c02.htm
  274.  
  275.  
  276. jack.robison [3:14 PM]
  277. Rather it's something higher level, content
  278.  
  279. cryptokrill [3:14 PM]
  280. How does lbry plan to deal w illegal content?
  281.  
  282. bobcaticus [3:14 PM]
  283. sounds slightly familiar to the failed altcoin project vidioshare https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=779552
  284. [ANN] VidioShare| ViDioshare.me Platform | Stage 3 Coming! | UPDATE IN 72 HRS!!!
  285.  
  286. jack.robison [3:15 PM]
  287. Some bytes are more valuable than others
  288.  
  289. kauffj [3:15 PM]
  290. another thing to remember is these projects frequently come down to execution
  291.  
  292. outragedhuman [3:15 PM]
  293. @bobcaticus: how do you know they failed? there's an update in 72 hours bro
  294.  
  295. kauffj [3:15 PM]
  296. we have a very strong team with incredible background across tech, business, design, entrepreneurship, marketing, economics, etc.
  297.  
  298. outragedhuman [3:15 PM]
  299. :wink:
  300.  
  301. finer9 [3:15 PM]
  302. @kauffj will discuss the illegal content issue
  303.  
  304. rezman5 [3:15 PM]
  305. Do you have a plan on getting the massive amount of protected content onto lbry initially? Say, the latest avengers movie or something similar.
  306.  
  307. finer9 [3:15 PM]
  308. and he is also right our team is a key strength vs some other crypto projects
  309.  
  310. bobcaticus [3:16 PM]
  311. hahaha
  312.  
  313. kauffj [3:16 PM]
  314. @cryptokrill well, we think the naming system does a lot to deal with illegal content
  315.  
  316. [3:16]
  317. but there will also be a way to blacklist hashes
  318.  
  319. cryptokrill [3:16 PM]
  320. Have you spoken with any notable interested artists? No need to name names
  321.  
  322. finer9 [3:16 PM]
  323. No names, but he's bringing sexy back
  324.  
  325. [3:16]
  326. just kidding
  327.  
  328. kauffj [3:17 PM]
  329. we think the economics of LBRY very much support the enforcement of moral norms, if the community has strong norms against a piece of content being published (there are things worse than illegal movies), the economics support keeping it away
  330.  
  331. kamelnomics [3:17 PM]
  332. wait @finer9 isn’t bringing sexy back?
  333.  
  334. finer9 [3:17 PM]
  335. decentralized naming and moderation
  336.  
  337. [3:17]
  338. @kamelnomics: only when LTC is hoppin'!
  339.  
  340. kauffj [3:17 PM]
  341. @rezman5 and @cryptokrill we have approached artists who are interested
  342.  
  343. [3:17]
  344. it is also worth noting the LBRY gracefully extends BitTorrent, so LBRY can immediately be used as decentralized torrent metadata storage/search
  345.  
  346. cryptokrill [3:18 PM]
  347. Nice!
  348.  
  349. finer9 [3:18 PM]
  350. ...but also has an internal streaming protocol
  351.  
  352. cryptokrill [3:18 PM]
  353. Nice!
  354.  
  355. sicarious [3:18 PM]
  356. Okay, now just to clarify:  by "artist" do we mean somebody I may have heard of before, or Johnny garage band?
  357.  
  358. kauffj [3:18 PM]
  359. @finer9 and i had coffee this AM, he definitely brings sexy back
  360.  
  361. [3:18]
  362. that frosted hair
  363.  
  364. julian [3:18 PM]
  365. how much disk space will LBRY take up? it stores the movies locally?
  366.  
  367. finer9 [3:18 PM]
  368. frosted makes it sound like dyed or something
  369.  
  370. [3:18]
  371. just effing gray
  372.  
  373. [3:18]
  374. hehe
  375.  
  376. cryptokrill [3:18 PM]
  377. Alexandria intends to use btc on front end and flo on backend.  Will lbry involve btc in any way?
  378.  
  379. kauffj [3:18 PM]
  380. oh are you just old?
  381.  
  382. finer9 [3:19 PM]
  383. cryptogrampa
  384.  
  385. jack.robison [3:19 PM]
  386. Depends how much you want to download and how much you want to host
  387.  
  388. kauffj [3:19 PM]
  389. @julian you get to choose that
  390.  
  391. finer9 [3:19 PM]
  392. you can make money on what you host
  393.  
  394. jack.robison [3:19 PM]
  395. Lbry itself isn't very big
  396.  
  397. kauffj [3:19 PM]
  398. so the typical case for publishing something on LBRY is it is broken up into many chunks
  399.  
  400. sicarious [3:19 PM]
  401. Popcorntime started storing movies on user's computers, without fucking telling us.
  402.  
  403. [3:19]
  404. that was annoying to find out
  405.  
  406. kauffj [3:19 PM]
  407. your system blindly observes buy/sell prices for chunks
  408.  
  409. [3:19]
  410. and chooses to host them or not based on our algo or algo of your choice
  411.  
  412. [3:19]
  413. so you will frequently not have the whole file
  414.  
  415. jack.robison [3:20 PM]
  416. Right, you'll have whatever is most profitable for you to host right now
  417.  
  418. kauffj [3:20 PM]
  419. @cryptokrill our coin is required to buy names, but it is not required to pay for anything
  420.  
  421. cryptokrill [3:20 PM]
  422. Ah cool
  423.  
  424. jack.robison [3:20 PM]
  425. Which may be spread out across many files, hosting small chunks of each
  426.  
  427. kauffj [3:20 PM]
  428. our clients will use our coin by default, but the protocol allows any two parties to agree on whatever exchange mechanism they want
  429.  
  430. [3:20]
  431. so if someone wants BTC for data or for a piece of content, that's possible
  432.  
  433. finer9 [3:20 PM]
  434. btw it is called LBC, heh, the 'token'
  435.  
  436. rezman5 [3:21 PM]
  437. Do you have a plan for expanding lbry into the mainstream? From what I understand, a more basic computer user will be completely confused by these concepts.
  438.  
  439. cryptokrill [3:21 PM]
  440. Interesting
  441.  
  442. finer9 [3:21 PM]
  443. so much drama in the LBC
  444.  
  445. cryptokrill [3:21 PM]
  446. Lol
  447.  
  448. kauffj [3:21 PM]
  449. @rezman5 yes, most people don't need to know about any of this
  450.  
  451. [3:21]
  452. you download program and there are sane defaults
  453.  
  454. julian [3:21 PM]
  455. "Connecting to lbrycrdd..." then fail ;_;
  456.  
  457. jack.robison [3:21 PM]
  458. @rezman5: yes, we see lbry as being Internet infrastructure
  459.  
  460. kauffj [3:21 PM]
  461. then you just see credits in the top right and a search box
  462.  
  463. finer9 [3:21 PM]
  464. live tech support!
  465.  
  466. kauffj [3:21 PM]
  467. @julian you and about 1 out of 3 people hahaha, it is an alpha :simple_smile:
  468.  
  469. cryptokrill [3:21 PM]
  470. I had the same @julian
  471.  
  472. julian [3:21 PM]
  473. i'll just file a bug
  474.  
  475. kauffj [3:21 PM]
  476. but success rate is climbing every day
  477.  
  478. jack.robison [3:22 PM]
  479. It'll be a part of their web browsing experience and won't require knowing how it works under the hood any more than other Internet infrastructure
  480.  
  481. kauffj [3:22 PM]
  482. if you guys want to join LBRY slack ours devs can do a more thorough debug
  483.  
  484. [3:22]
  485. bug report w/ console output is also very useful!
  486.  
  487. finer9 [3:22 PM]
  488. @jack.robison:  I like that vision
  489.  
  490. kauffj [3:22 PM]
  491. yes, exactly, we want LBRY to be the protocol used to deliver all static internet content
  492.  
  493. rezman5 [3:22 PM]
  494. @jack.robison thx, that makes it even more interesting!
  495.  
  496. kauffj [3:22 PM]
  497. which is half of all traffic, $20B/y
  498.  
  499. [3:23]
  500. ($2T/y spent on all this content by the way)
  501.  
  502. rezman5 [3:23 PM]
  503. What does the team see as the biggest obstacle to overcome at the moment?
  504.  
  505. sterky [3:23 PM]
  506. static content eh, so there would be no way of having something like a livestream on your system
  507.  
  508. finer9 [3:23 PM]
  509. Sorry about the demo issues.  Jimmy and Jack are working hard on it literally every day so it is constantly changing.  Likely something small.
  510.  
  511. kauffj [3:23 PM]
  512. @sterky, live stream is static, it is just an unfinished static piece
  513.  
  514. [3:24]
  515. you could use LBRY to do paid live stream
  516.  
  517. finer9 [3:24 PM]
  518. @sterky was listening trying to find a gotcha
  519.  
  520. [3:24]
  521. hehe
  522.  
  523. kauffj [3:24 PM]
  524. we think it will work great for sports streaming
  525.  
  526. [3:24]
  527. which has some similar UX issues to torrents
  528.  
  529. finer9 [3:25 PM]
  530. anyone code happy please see our GitHub, being open source we welcome input!
  531.  
  532. sterky [3:25 PM]
  533. interesting, so it would theoretically perform better as its mesh distribution of the stream
  534.  
  535. kauffj [3:26 PM]
  536. we think so! the devs working on LBRY are very talented
  537.  
  538. [3:26]
  539. jack and jimmy are two of the smartest people i've met and i'm no slouch myself
  540.  
  541. jack.robison [3:26 PM]
  542. Those willing to pay the most get the rare blobs first, and it would follow these are also the people with the greatest means to make a return on their investment
  543.  
  544. cryptokrill [3:26 PM]
  545. Are you guys somehow funded or just bootstrapping? Do you have other gigs?
  546.  
  547. rezman5 [3:26 PM]
  548. @kauffj True story.
  549.  
  550. kauffj [3:27 PM]
  551. we have some funding also some sweat
  552.  
  553. [3:27]
  554. we are at about 2.5 FTE
  555.  
  556. jack.robison [3:27 PM]
  557. So not only does it have strength of a meshnet, but also a low friction market
  558.  
  559. cryptokrill [3:27 PM]
  560. :)
  561.  
  562. kauffj [3:27 PM]
  563. i run another SaaS company that is fairly successful
  564.  
  565. finer9 [3:27 PM]
  566. I manage AdWords accounts and watch ETH all day so there's time(edited)
  567.  
  568. [3:27]
  569. lol
  570.  
  571. rezman5 [3:27 PM]
  572. What does the team see as the biggest obstacle to overcome at the moment?
  573.  
  574. kauffj [3:27 PM]
  575. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kauffj if you are curious about me
  576.  
  577. jack.robison [3:28 PM]
  578. There aren't enough hours in a day @rezman5
  579.  
  580. kauffj [3:28 PM]
  581. @rezman5 biggest obstacle is let's get the damn thing out!!!
  582.  
  583. finer9 [3:28 PM]
  584. At least 3 of us are full time entrepreneurs
  585.  
  586. kauffj [3:28 PM]
  587. but we are getting really close
  588.  
  589. [3:28]
  590. as someone who really likes iterating to find good solutions, designing blockchain tech poses an additional challenge not seen in other software
  591.  
  592. finer9 [3:28 PM]
  593. Some great advisers too, on the team page
  594.  
  595. kauffj [3:28 PM]
  596. yes, Tabarrok, Kinsella, Huemer
  597.  
  598. finer9 [3:29 PM]
  599. profs/economists
  600.  
  601. kauffj [3:29 PM]
  602. economist, lawyer, ethicist, all well known in their fields
  603.  
  604. finer9 [3:29 PM]
  605. The graphical clients will evolve rapidly for osx and win.  A lot of time has been spent under the hood until this point.
  606.  
  607. [3:29]
  608. ol' tip of the iceberg type thing
  609.  
  610. kauffj [3:30 PM]
  611. if you let me know you are download LBRY right now I tip you JBS :wink:
  612.  
  613. [3:30]
  614. tipbot tip @julian 1.0 JBS
  615.  
  616.  
  617. tipbot BOT [3:30 PM]
  618. @kauffj tipped @julian 1.0 JBS
  619. wooo a 1.0 JBS tip!
  620. ----------------
  621. https://chainz.cryptoid.info/jbs/tx.dws?d8189c3c10f97d2ec68e8409bfa103bfbd344eced69390e2686762f6273006ff.htm
  622.  
  623.  
  624. kauffj [3:30 PM]
  625. i have no idea how many JBS i actually have hahaha
  626.  
  627. outragedhuman [3:30 PM]
  628. Heh, i'm on the page to download it but need to be at home on my vm :wink:
  629.  
  630. kauffj [3:31 PM]
  631. ok I tip you but you better do it later
  632.  
  633. outragedhuman [3:31 PM]
  634. do `tipbot balance`
  635.  
  636. kauffj [3:31 PM]
  637. tipbot tip @outragedhuman 1.0 jbs
  638.  
  639.  
  640. tipbot BOT [3:31 PM]
  641. @kauffj tipped @outragedhuman 1.0 JBS
  642. wooo a 1.0 JBS tip!
  643. ----------------
  644. https://chainz.cryptoid.info/jbs/tx.dws?0149a407b93600c1ce119b2f25503cd004974e8951dfea4ec1d4e05da06b285c.htm
  645.  
  646.  
  647. kauffj [3:31 PM]
  648. i imagine this channel is about 50% "just the tip" jokes when there is no AMA
  649.  
  650. [3:32]
  651. also can we please keep this more about rampart
  652.  
  653. jack.robison [3:32 PM]
  654. Lol
  655.  
  656. outragedhuman [3:32 PM]
  657. hey now, 50% is steep
  658.  
  659. finer9 [3:32 PM]
  660. any technical questions?  thoughts about crowdsale?
  661.  
  662. sicarious [3:33 PM]
  663. I gotta' say, your guy's PR is a lot better than Alexandria's.
  664.  
  665. [3:33]
  666. I'm sorry if you mentioned this above and I missed it, but the crowdsale is open to small investors?
  667.  
  668. kauffj [3:33 PM]
  669. we are still sorting out some legal questions there
  670.  
  671. [3:33]
  672. we are very interested in dotting every i and crossing every t
  673.  
  674. [3:33]
  675. not gonna let this get blown up by a dumb mistake i make early on
  676.  
  677. [3:34]
  678. but it will happen
  679.  
  680. outragedhuman [3:34 PM]
  681. Will all of the tokens be sold in the crowdsale, or just a portion
  682.  
  683. [3:34]
  684. if a portion, how will other coins be utilized
  685.  
  686. fate [3:34 PM]
  687. can you explain more about the naming conventions, how coase theory works with taking over names, and how you can show the name owner is the correct one?
  688.  
  689. finer9 [3:35 PM]
  690. @outraged it will be a portion.  a lot of other coins are allocated to certain orgs and foundations, details forthcoming
  691.  
  692. kauffj [3:35 PM]
  693. coase theorem says property flows to those who can get most return when property rules are clear and transaction costs are low
  694.  
  695. fate [3:35 PM]
  696. we can establish easily the first user in with content could have the highest marks which could not be pushed out by the rightful owner, so how do you mitigate risk?
  697.  
  698. kauffj [3:35 PM]
  699. so we think premises clearly hold
  700.  
  701. jack.robison [3:35 PM]
  702. Essentially whoever commits the most LBC towards a name controls it, with a little complication added to handle when the update goes into effect
  703.  
  704. kauffj [3:35 PM]
  705. and we also think it's clear people prefer to buy content from rights holder
  706.  
  707. [3:35]
  708. so rights holder can get most value
  709.  
  710. jack.robison [3:35 PM]
  711. Where coase applies
  712.  
  713. outragedhuman [3:36 PM]
  714. Say I publish a video of my kid farting in the pool under the name "Nathan" and it starts gaining traction. And then say @fate sees that it's doing well so he pays tokens to acquire the name "Nathan". Do my fart profits go to @fate right after he steals my name, until I take it back?
  715.  
  716. jack.robison [3:36 PM]
  717. Is that for an efficient outcome property rights must be secure, i.e. Not subject to regime uncertainty
  718.  
  719. [3:36]
  720. And where transaction costs approach zero
  721.  
  722. kauffj [3:36 PM]
  723. once @fate takes over name, future purchases of lbry://fart would go to him
  724.  
  725. [3:36]
  726. but you would have time to respond
  727.  
  728. [3:36]
  729. and not just you, entire community
  730.  
  731. jack.robison [3:36 PM]
  732. Property rights are crypto, there is no regime uncertainty
  733.  
  734. kauffj [3:37 PM]
  735. if you're a game theory guy, the right way to think about it is not how many credits are committed, but how many can ​*credibly*​ be committed
  736.  
  737. jack.robison [3:37 PM]
  738. And transaction costs are extremely low
  739.  
  740. kauffj [3:37 PM]
  741. i predict popular names will frequently be held by low sums because the party can clearly commit a lot of credits
  742.  
  743. fate [3:37 PM]
  744. cause if Im scamming by selling media no one else has, how do you not get sued by the rightful owner? I am pretty sure no one wants to pay the network for their own property to control it
  745.  
  746. outragedhuman [3:37 PM]
  747. So will certain users acquire more "weight" by having more "followers" sorta?
  748.  
  749. kauffj [3:37 PM]
  750. and we will throw our own weight behind any legitimate publishers attacked by trolls/pirates
  751.  
  752. jack.robison [3:37 PM]
  753. It's worth noting that names aren't traded
  754.  
  755. [3:37]
  756. If I outbid you for a name, I'm not transferring credits to you
  757.  
  758. outragedhuman [3:38 PM]
  759. ahh sorta like Twitter verified
  760.  
  761. jack.robison [3:38 PM]
  762. And you can reclaim your committed funds if you want
  763.  
  764. kauffj [3:38 PM]
  765. yes, we will almost certainly offer a verification service but that is a mid-stage thing
  766.  
  767. jack.robison [3:38 PM]
  768. Or put more in and out bid me(edited)
  769.  
  770. kauffj [3:38 PM]
  771. @fate when someone publishes something illegal to network the publisher and downloader are liable
  772.  
  773. [3:38]
  774. our understanding is we are no more liable than the person who created HTTP
  775.  
  776. [3:38]
  777. who's name I should probably learn
  778.  
  779. sicarious [3:38 PM]
  780. tell that to Ross.
  781.  
  782. outragedhuman [3:38 PM]
  783. Can you trace the person who published?
  784.  
  785. fate [3:38 PM]
  786. and you are for harboring hosting element
  787.  
  788. [3:39]
  789. oh no jeremy, no no no
  790.  
  791. outragedhuman [3:39 PM]
  792. tell that to Ross AND Kim Dotcom
  793.  
  794. rezman5 [3:39 PM]
  795. Say I'm MGM, what recourse do I have if I find a movie I made on lbry? Or are you hoping studios will upload their own content?
  796.  
  797. fate [3:39 PM]
  798. read about tpb
  799.  
  800. kauffj [3:39 PM]
  801. @sicarious i support peaceful, voluntary exchange, dread pirate roberts did not create a protocol he ran a website
  802.  
  803. [3:39]
  804. i won't speculate as to whether ross is dpr or not
  805.  
  806. dogedoggertonog [3:39 PM]
  807. Late and may have missed ...is storage of content shared and you can earn credits from providing storage?
  808.  
  809. sicarious [3:39 PM]
  810. @kauffj: Kim Dotcom?
  811.  
  812. fate [3:39 PM]
  813. so I make Disney, I own that name currently on the network, I put out Star Wars
  814.  
  815. outragedhuman [3:40 PM]
  816. @dogedoggertonog: yes
  817.  
  818. fate [3:40 PM]
  819. I know for a fact Disney is not going to pay for their naming rights
  820.  
  821. kauffj [3:40 PM]
  822. yes, it's clear they will make any case possible, no matter how much of a stretch
  823.  
  824. fate [3:40 PM]
  825. you will have to blacklist and pay back damages
  826.  
  827. jack.robison [3:40 PM]
  828. We've got a few things we can do to deter copyright infringements and to make getting legit content easier
  829.  
  830. kauffj [3:40 PM]
  831. that is why we want to be as careful as possible
  832.  
  833. fate [3:40 PM]
  834. they wont pay for the name
  835.  
  836. kauffj [3:40 PM]
  837. yes, we will blacklist our clients
  838.  
  839. [3:40]
  840. clients we release will need a DMCA filter
  841.  
  842. [3:40]
  843. which we will add as soon as the first DMCA arrives :simple_smile:
  844.  
  845. [3:40]
  846. or possibly before
  847.  
  848. jack.robison [3:40 PM]
  849. That's fundamentally all you can do though, make it harder to do the illegitimate things and easier to stay above the board(edited)
  850.  
  851. kauffj [3:41 PM]
  852. but illegal content is added to all kinds of services all of the time
  853.  
  854. [3:41]
  855. and LBRY isn't even a service, it's a protocol
  856.  
  857. fate [3:41 PM]
  858. thats what kim dotcom said
  859.  
  860. kauffj [3:41 PM]
  861. we do not own or control it
  862.  
  863. [3:41]
  864. well, he did some shady things imo
  865.  
  866. [3:41]
  867. when they got DMCA'd they left other references to same file
  868.  
  869. [3:41]
  870. that was really what did them in
  871.  
  872. jack.robison [3:41 PM]
  873. He ran a hosting company...
  874.  
  875. vqp [3:41 PM]
  876. I'm just wrapping my head around this project:   will lbry enable content creators, storage/bandwidth leasers, metadata maintainers (think imdb, subtitles,), and library curators (think MGM or ahem YIFY) all of them getting a piece of the pie?
  877.  
  878. finer9 [3:41 PM]
  879. Also remember Bittorrent is a thriving company/business in San Fran
  880.  
  881. kauffj [3:42 PM]
  882. so they'd have 8 URLs pointing to the same file, have ONE copy of the file on server, get a DMCA against one url, and remove the URL but not the file
  883.  
  884. fate [3:42 PM]
  885. also remember tpb gets raided for hosting links that dont host files or torrent files
  886.  
  887. kauffj [3:42 PM]
  888. we don't host links
  889.  
  890. [3:42]
  891. we host nothing
  892.  
  893. [3:42]
  894. at all
  895.  
  896. fate [3:42 PM]
  897. thats what the pirate bay does
  898.  
  899. kauffj [3:42 PM]
  900. we wrote a completely open source protocol that ​*anyone*​ can implement
  901.  
  902. [3:42]
  903. no, TPB hosts metadata
  904.  
  905. [3:43]
  906. when i search TPB i receive metadata stored on TPB servers
  907.  
  908. [3:43]
  909. which courts have ruled is illegal
  910.  
  911. fate [3:43 PM]
  912. you dont run nodes?
  913.  
  914. dogedoggertonog [3:43 PM]
  915. ​*we*​ host
  916.  
  917. xocel [3:43 PM]
  918. are you concerned at all, that although what you're saying makes perfect sense, it will still be above govt stooges heads?
  919.  
  920. kauffj [3:43 PM]
  921. will we face legal challenges? of course, it's a given
  922.  
  923. [3:44]
  924. but we've been working w/ lawyer since very early (possibly before a line of code was written?)
  925.  
  926. [3:44]
  927. and i'm no lawyer myself, but my understanding is none of the parallels apply
  928.  
  929. fate [3:44 PM]
  930. every bit of this screams fbi raids on every node running
  931.  
  932. vqp [3:44 PM]
  933. popcorntime does not host anything and they harassed the programmers
  934.  
  935. fate [3:44 PM]
  936. if you went a path where content is verified prior to hosting, i would understand the concerns
  937.  
  938. finer9 [3:44 PM]
  939. @fate that's a little dramatic lol
  940.  
  941. kauffj [3:44 PM]
  942. we can't verify
  943.  
  944. [3:45]
  945. it's the nature of the design
  946.  
  947. sicarious [3:45 PM]
  948. yeah, popcorntime got fucked, but then they relaunched
  949.  
  950. kauffj [3:45 PM]
  951. (btw I will have to go at ~5pm EST)
  952.  
  953. vqp [3:45 PM]
  954. actually they were just threatened
  955.  
  956. rezman5 [3:45 PM]
  957. But popcorntime isn't a protocol is it?
  958.  
  959. vqp [3:45 PM]
  960. popcorntime is just bittorrent
  961.  
  962. sicarious [3:45 PM]
  963. I dunno how it works.
  964.  
  965. rezman5 [3:46 PM]
  966. There ya go, by the time the govt realizes what lbry is, there will be too many nodes to go after. Maybe?
  967.  
  968. vqp [3:46 PM]
  969. is a faceplate that connects torrents from a curator (yify), subtitles and other APIs
  970.  
  971. fate [3:46 PM]
  972. josh, thats how 9yr old girls got sued, they ran oldschool shares that exposed their IP
  973.  
  974. finer9 [3:46 PM]
  975. Here is an important point: some of those ​*want*​ to distribute illegal content.  We don't.  We are designing from the start for rightful content owners.
  976.  
  977. vqp [3:46 PM]
  978. @rezman5:  yes, but nodes will be in remote places too
  979.  
  980. fate [3:46 PM]
  981. whether kazaa, bittorrent, or lbry, IP with content = bad
  982.  
  983. rezman5 [3:47 PM]
  984. Can't you guys just bring back Napster?
  985.  
  986. outragedhuman [3:47 PM]
  987. I don't think I saw an answer earlier, if a publisher has posted content and the IP owner requests information on that publisher, what info would you be able to provide?
  988.  
  989. rezman5 [3:47 PM]
  990. Have you written an eula?
  991.  
  992. dogedoggertonog [3:48 PM]
  993. Great question outraged
  994.  
  995. fate [3:48 PM]
  996. IP and wallet address?
  997.  
  998. [3:48]
  999. thats all i would see available
  1000.  
  1001. kauffj [3:48 PM]
  1002. @outragedhuman: nothing other than what is in blockchain, yes, that's all
  1003.  
  1004. vqp [3:48 PM]
  1005. they don't have to ask that, it will be visible for all participants
  1006.  
  1007. kauffj [3:48 PM]
  1008. yep
  1009.  
  1010. [3:48]
  1011. we can give them nothing they can't get themselves
  1012.  
  1013. jack.robison [3:48 PM]
  1014. if someone is monitoring the dht they might be able to get a bit more info
  1015.  
  1016. fate [3:49 PM]
  1017. i do love the platform and idea, you are just opening the doors for the first tpb type scenario
  1018.  
  1019. jack.robison [3:49 PM]
  1020. but they'd be able to do that just as well as us
  1021.  
  1022. fate [3:49 PM]
  1023. and they will attack you, not the nodes first
  1024.  
  1025. vqp [3:49 PM]
  1026. that is very resilient
  1027.  
  1028. jimmyk [3:49 PM]
  1029. if they're hosting the content, their IP will be publicly visible. otherwise, just wallet addresses
  1030.  
  1031. xocel [3:49 PM]
  1032. seeing how my govt dealt with KDC case has been quite scary. (breaking laws, then rewriting and backdating, so now they aren't breaking laws etc). The decentralized nature itself obviously combats this a lot, cant shut the protocol down etc. however it does mean the only target left is the dev team/services. I really hope everything plays out well for you guys, as its a cool project. very annoying you have to deal with this sort of nonsense.(edited)
  1033.  
  1034. vqp [3:49 PM]
  1035. do you envision clients developed on top of lbry, something like popcorntime maybe?
  1036.  
  1037. fate [3:50 PM]
  1038. jimmy, what if I just hold content for making profit like staking my coins. I am now liable for hosting illegal content even tho I would never want that?
  1039.  
  1040. kauffj [3:50 PM]
  1041. @vqp yes, and we will release clients ourselves
  1042.  
  1043. [3:50]
  1044. we can't expect community to just write one
  1045.  
  1046. vqp [3:50 PM]
  1047. great
  1048.  
  1049. finer9 [3:50 PM]
  1050. @xocel thanks.
  1051.  
  1052. kauffj [3:50 PM]
  1053. you can alpha test ours at lbry.io/get ! rewards! omg! asdklhgaldg
  1054.  
  1055. [3:50]
  1056. yes, we accept we may be targets
  1057.  
  1058. [3:51]
  1059. we accept we may even lose profits
  1060.  
  1061. outragedhuman [3:51 PM]
  1062. I tried to remote into my home computer to download the alpha and my wife is playing WoW
  1063.  
  1064. [3:51]
  1065. I TRIED
  1066.  
  1067. fate [3:51 PM]
  1068. lol
  1069.  
  1070. kauffj [3:51 PM]
  1071. tell her it's time to get a new game
  1072.  
  1073. jimmyk [3:51 PM]
  1074. @fate not a lawyer, but my guess is that depends on whether or not you know what you're hosting
  1075.  
  1076. finer9 [3:51 PM]
  1077. I'll turn witness on kauffj(edited)
  1078.  
  1079. outragedhuman [3:51 PM]
  1080. but ramparts....
  1081.  
  1082. rezman5 [3:51 PM]
  1083. @outragedhuman game is 10 years past its prime
  1084.  
  1085. wheatclove [3:51 PM]
  1086. she's probably cybering for purples
  1087.  
  1088. kauffj [3:51 PM]
  1089. yes really disappointed in the lack of questions about rampart @outragedhuman
  1090.  
  1091. fate [3:51 PM]
  1092. so you make it known what chunks of data we are hosting?
  1093.  
  1094. jimmyk [3:52 PM]
  1095. if you download random encrypted pieces from the network, that would be the only way i could imagine you could avoid being in trouble
  1096.  
  1097. fate [3:52 PM]
  1098. cause I thought I read I host 10gigs or something, I earn coins
  1099.  
  1100. sicarious [3:52 PM]
  1101. Rampart?
  1102.  
  1103. jimmyk [3:52 PM]
  1104. but best to just only rehost content you know is ok for you to host
  1105.  
  1106. kauffj [3:52 PM]
  1107. @sicarious knowyourmeme
  1108.  
  1109. jimmyk [3:52 PM]
  1110. yes, it's publicly known what pieces you're hosting
  1111.  
  1112. sicarious [3:52 PM]
  1113. :stuck_out_tongue:
  1114.  
  1115. fate [3:52 PM]
  1116. so, its exactly like bittorrent for usage and hosting?
  1117.  
  1118. kauffj [3:52 PM]
  1119. no
  1120.  
  1121. outragedhuman [3:52 PM]
  1122. @sicarious apparently it's an AMA joke from when Woody Harrelson did an AMA (IDK I Googled)
  1123.  
  1124. kauffj [3:53 PM]
  1125. if you put bittorrent magnet link in metadata, it works like bittorrent
  1126.  
  1127. jimmyk [3:53 PM]
  1128. not quite, we track each individual piece, rather than the file as a whole
  1129.  
  1130. [3:53]
  1131. we = dht
  1132.  
  1133. kauffj [3:53 PM]
  1134. but if you use LBRY format, it is different, more deniability w/r/t chunk content
  1135.  
  1136. finer9 [3:53 PM]
  1137. @sicarious I told him it was a bad joke
  1138.  
  1139. [3:53]
  1140. lol
  1141.  
  1142. kauffj [3:53 PM]
  1143. all my jokes are bad
  1144.  
  1145. [3:53]
  1146. just live with it
  1147.  
  1148. outragedhuman [3:53 PM]
  1149. Do you need to download the full movie in order to start watching or will it work like a stream
  1150.  
  1151. fate [3:54 PM]
  1152. but when I download something illegal as Disney, Im doing it to sniff IPs
  1153.  
  1154. vqp [3:54 PM]
  1155. are the chunks encrypted? what about the transfers?
  1156.  
  1157. finer9 [3:54 PM]
  1158. TOR
  1159.  
  1160. [3:54]
  1161. jk
  1162.  
  1163. fate [3:54 PM]
  1164. so the nodes know they hosted this file
  1165.  
  1166. kauffj [3:54 PM]
  1167. @outragedhuman yes you can stream
  1168.  
  1169. fate [3:54 PM]
  1170. cause its public
  1171.  
  1172. jimmyk [3:54 PM]
  1173. chunks are encrypted by our client (it's an open protocol so you're free to write your own client that doesn't do that)
  1174.  
  1175. fate [3:54 PM]
  1176. but I didnt know I bought from a scammer
  1177.  
  1178. kauffj [3:54 PM]
  1179. @fate yes you can identify a host IP, but our understanding is a host IP is not liable if it is hosting blindly, though this ​*is*​ gray area
  1180.  
  1181. [3:54]
  1182. but essentially each node is acting as a blind host
  1183.  
  1184. [3:54]
  1185. nodes would have to respond to DMCAs
  1186.  
  1187. finer9 [3:54 PM]
  1188. good discussion!
  1189.  
  1190. outragedhuman [3:54 PM]
  1191. yuk ^
  1192.  
  1193. kauffj [3:55 PM]
  1194. and we will publish a subscribable blacklist
  1195.  
  1196. outragedhuman [3:55 PM]
  1197. oops, not you finer :stuck_out_tongue:
  1198.  
  1199. finer9 [3:55 PM]
  1200. heh
  1201.  
  1202. jimmyk [3:55 PM]
  1203. nodes which host content that they're not allowed to have would have to respond to dmcas
  1204.  
  1205. fate [3:55 PM]
  1206. a blind host, but its public we know what we host?
  1207.  
  1208. rezman5 [3:55 PM]
  1209. How does the lbry team plan on making money from this?
  1210.  
  1211. jimmyk [3:55 PM]
  1212. people using the system legitimately dont have to deal with that
  1213.  
  1214. outragedhuman [3:55 PM]
  1215. can individual clients choose to blacklist certain content based on hash, or certain publishers based on something else?
  1216.  
  1217. sicarious [3:55 PM]
  1218. hidden premine :wink:
  1219.  
  1220. kauffj [3:55 PM]
  1221. @fate as a host you blindly choose to host without knowing what's inside, you just see <hash>, <time>, <price>
  1222.  
  1223. finer9 [3:55 PM]
  1224. lol
  1225.  
  1226. kauffj [3:55 PM]
  1227. you can't see what's inside the cunk
  1228.  
  1229. jimmyk [3:55 PM]
  1230. @outragedhuman: absolutely, the client has total control over what they host
  1231.  
  1232. kauffj [3:55 PM]
  1233. chunk*
  1234.  
  1235. xocel [3:56 PM]
  1236. seems like you guys are taking a great approach to this :simple_smile: looking forward to seeing this evolve further
  1237.  
  1238. fate [3:56 PM]
  1239. i asked that 3x in different ways, you said i know what im hosting cause its public
  1240.  
  1241. kauffj [3:56 PM]
  1242. yes, the fact that you have the chunk is public
  1243.  
  1244. fate [3:56 PM]
  1245. so, i dont know what im hosting and im still fucked by the man
  1246.  
  1247. kauffj [3:56 PM]
  1248. but you do not know what is in the chunk(edited)
  1249.  
  1250. vqp [3:56 PM]
  1251. deniability
  1252.  
  1253. fate [3:56 PM]
  1254. but then as a node im liable to dmca cause i hosted it
  1255.  
  1256. rezman5 [3:56 PM]
  1257. You choose what you host? That's what it sounded like
  1258.  
  1259. fate [3:57 PM]
  1260. so confused
  1261.  
  1262. finer9 [3:57 PM]
  1263. @rezman5 mostly the value of the tokens we will hold.  we think they will rise in value proportionally to the amount of content that is transacted on the network
  1264.  
  1265. jack.robison [3:57 PM]
  1266. the way it works is the name record on the blockchain points to a particular file on the lbry dht, similar to a magnet link
  1267.  
  1268. finer9 [3:57 PM]
  1269. @rezman5 but some other opportunities
  1270.  
  1271. kauffj [3:57 PM]
  1272. running out of time, get your gotchas in
  1273.  
  1274. jack.robison [3:57 PM]
  1275. this file then tells you what the other pieces are called on the dht, analogous to a list of magnet links
  1276.  
  1277. finer9 [3:57 PM]
  1278. Yah an hour wow
  1279.  
  1280. jack.robison [3:57 PM]
  1281. each piece is encrypted
  1282.  
  1283. rezman5 [3:57 PM]
  1284. @finer9 thx!
  1285.  
  1286. kauffj [3:57 PM]
  1287. lbry.io/join-list !
  1288.  
  1289. [3:57]
  1290. lbry.io/get !
  1291.  
  1292. finer9 [3:57 PM]
  1293. Thanks for putting this together @julian
  1294.  
  1295. kauffj [3:57 PM]
  1296. twitter.com/lbryio
  1297.  
  1298. jack.robison [3:57 PM]
  1299. so you may have a piece, but you don't know what's in it
  1300.  
  1301. kauffj [3:57 PM]
  1302. facebook.com/lbryio
  1303.  
  1304. outragedhuman [3:58 PM]
  1305. I will lbry.io/get when my Wife stops WoW
  1306.  
  1307. jack.robison [3:58 PM]
  1308. and if you don't have that header chunk you don't even know what name it's a part of
  1309.  
  1310. finer9 [3:58 PM]
  1311. @outragedhuman: you MAY be able to watch It's a Wonderful Life :simple_smile:
  1312.  
  1313. jimmyk [3:58 PM]
  1314. @fate if you don't want to deal with dmca, then only host content you know is legal for you to host. don't blindly download chunks from the internet without knowing what they belong to
  1315.  
  1316. kauffj [3:58 PM]
  1317. reddit.com/r/lbry
  1318.  
  1319. rezman5 [3:58 PM]
  1320. @outragedhuman ded game is ded. Good questions though!
  1321.  
  1322. vqp [3:58 PM]
  1323. please tell me that the client you will be writing will have native btc support
  1324.  
  1325. xocel [3:58 PM]
  1326. can i chose to host say 7/8 chunks of a file?
  1327.  
  1328. fate [3:58 PM]
  1329. ok, so i can select what chunks
  1330.  
  1331. jimmyk [3:58 PM]
  1332. @xocel yes
  1333.  
  1334. outragedhuman [3:58 PM]
  1335. @rezman5: yes I stopped playing long ago
  1336.  
  1337. jimmyk [3:58 PM]
  1338. @fate yes
  1339.  
  1340. fate [3:59 PM]
  1341. how do i know its legit if a scammer owns a name then?
  1342.  
  1343. outragedhuman [3:59 PM]
  1344. I see the potential to re-write the algo and get some extra profit
  1345.  
  1346. xocel [3:59 PM]
  1347. awesome, problem solved. thats how a big ISP here gets away with caching torrents for its users (so they dont have to keep going via international pipeline). they seed 99% of file. :wink:
  1348.  
  1349. kauffj [3:59 PM]
  1350. yes, LBRY enables data provision entpreneurship
  1351.  
  1352. finer9 [3:59 PM]
  1353. @xocel interesting
  1354.  
  1355. vqp [4:00 PM]
  1356. free CDN!
  1357.  
  1358. outragedhuman [4:00 PM]
  1359. Well it was a good chat fellas :simple_smile:
  1360.  
  1361. kauffj [4:00 PM]
  1362. ok guys I am going to bounce, if you found this interesting don't miss the chance to get involved early
  1363.  
  1364. [4:00]
  1365. big rewards
  1366.  
  1367. jimmyk [4:00 PM]
  1368. @fate the answer will probably be something like: you subscribe to someone you trust to only tell you to rehost good content, and then only rehost that, unless you want to personally check everything out
  1369.  
  1370. kauffj [4:00 PM]
  1371. and a lot of fun :simple_smile:
  1372.  
  1373. jack.robison [4:00 PM]
  1374. @xocel: this is one of my favorite aspects of lbry, self-organizing efficient allocation of hosting resources
  1375.  
  1376. kauffj [4:01 PM]
  1377. doesn't @jack.robison write the best sentences
  1378.  
  1379. fate [4:01 PM]
  1380. makes more sense now
  1381.  
  1382. outragedhuman [4:01 PM]
  1383. He's obviously doing the promo material
  1384.  
  1385. vqp [4:01 PM]
  1386. the client you will be writing will have native btc support?
  1387.  
  1388. jack.robison [4:01 PM]
  1389. if a piece is rare but in demand it commands a higher price, making it less rare
  1390.  
  1391. kauffj [4:01 PM]
  1392. not first release @vqp
  1393.  
  1394. [4:01]
  1395. MVP
  1396.  
  1397. [4:01]
  1398. does not have BTC
  1399.  
  1400. vqp [4:02 PM]
  1401. MVP is your player?
  1402.  
  1403. jimmyk [4:02 PM]
  1404. @vqp we're waiting on them to get out a lightning network or equivalent
  1405.  
  1406. kauffj [4:02 PM]
  1407. minimum viable product
  1408.  
  1409. [4:02]
  1410. start up term
  1411.  
  1412. outragedhuman [4:02 PM]
  1413. RTM
  1414.  
  1415. vqp [4:02 PM]
  1416. sounded like smth Video Player
  1417.  
  1418. kauffj [4:02 PM]
  1419. ok signing off!
  1420.  
  1421. vqp [4:02 PM]
  1422. ha
  1423.  
  1424. finer9 [4:02 PM]
  1425. later @kauffj
  1426.  
  1427. vqp [4:03 PM]
  1428. finer9 you stay?
  1429.  
  1430. finer9 [4:03 PM]
  1431. Yah it will be LBC only but it is extensible to any crypto really
  1432.  
  1433. [4:03]
  1434. I can stay for a bit.
  1435.  
  1436. jack.robison [4:03 PM]
  1437. it's extendable beyond crypto even
  1438.  
  1439. finer9 [4:03 PM]
  1440. that too :simple_smile:
  1441.  
  1442. jack.robison [4:03 PM]
  1443. you could conceivably use credit cards, etc
  1444.  
  1445. vqp [4:03 PM]
  1446. what's easiest way to buy some LBC?   shapeshift.io?
  1447.  
  1448. finer9 [4:03 PM]
  1449. I'm more on the growth/business/funding/whatever side so I probably can't debate theory quite as well :simple_smile:
  1450.  
  1451. [4:04]
  1452. @vqp not quite yet
  1453.  
  1454. vqp [4:04 PM]
  1455. I would like to buy some
  1456.  
  1457. [4:04]
  1458. what are the steps?
  1459.  
  1460. jack.robison [4:04 PM]
  1461. we're still in testnet phase, so it's not a traded item yet, but you can mine it and try it out
  1462.  
  1463. finer9 [4:04 PM]
  1464. There will be a crowd-sale followed by it being on Bittrex, minimum.
  1465.  
  1466. [4:04]
  1467. And we will let you know well in advance about the crowd sale
  1468.  
  1469. [4:05]
  1470. Make sure to sign up on the email list
  1471.  
  1472. vqp [4:05 PM]
  1473. is it  a SHA256 mining thing?
  1474.  
  1475. jimmyk [4:05 PM]
  1476. it's proof of work, but we have a unique algorithm
  1477.  
  1478. vqp [4:05 PM]
  1479. ok, that is better yet
  1480.  
  1481. finer9 [4:06 PM]
  1482. It will be CPU mining until someone writes a GPU miner I guess
  1483.  
  1484. [4:06]
  1485. or we do?  No idea
  1486.  
  1487. jimmyk [4:06 PM]
  1488. yup, we're keeping it a secret until mining starts
  1489.  
  1490. [4:06]
  1491. so cpu miners get a good shot at mining
  1492.  
  1493. vqp [4:06 PM]
  1494. oh, I thought you already started the mining
  1495.  
  1496. jimmyk [4:07 PM]
  1497. testing purposes only, lacks some important features
  1498.  
  1499. vqp [4:07 PM]
  1500. now I'm confused, if there are no coins yet, what are you crowd-selling?
  1501.  
  1502. finer9 [4:07 PM]
  1503. the eventual coins :simple_smile:
  1504.  
  1505. [4:07]
  1506. once the sale is over, the network launches and you get your coins
  1507.  
  1508. jimmyk [4:07 PM]
  1509. the genesis block gives us some coins
  1510.  
  1511. [4:07]
  1512. we are selling those
  1513.  
  1514. vqp [4:07 PM]
  1515. oh
  1516.  
  1517. [4:08]
  1518. when will mining start?
  1519.  
  1520. finer9 [4:08 PM]
  1521. ah yes there is some premine, it will be detailed
  1522.  
  1523. jimmyk [4:08 PM]
  1524. we havent set a date
  1525.  
  1526. vqp [4:08 PM]
  1527. ETA?
  1528.  
  1529. finer9 [4:08 PM]
  1530. heh
  1531.  
  1532. jimmyk [4:08 PM]
  1533. the blockchain stuff is pretty much ready to go
  1534.  
  1535. finer9 [4:08 PM]
  1536. I like the enthusiasm!
  1537.  
  1538. fate [4:08 PM]
  1539. then how do you use the alpha?
  1540.  
  1541. vqp [4:08 PM]
  1542. well, is free money
  1543.  
  1544. jimmyk [4:08 PM]
  1545. the question is getting out the rest of the stuff
  1546.  
  1547. fate [4:09 PM]
  1548. set everything to free?
  1549.  
  1550. jimmyk [4:09 PM]
  1551. the alpha is using the testing blockchain
  1552.  
  1553. finer9 [4:09 PM]
  1554. @vqp part of the delay is that we are currently raising some angel investment
  1555.  
  1556. [4:09]
  1557. so the crowd sale will be second
  1558.  
  1559. vqp [4:09 PM]
  1560. ok, np just asking
  1561.  
  1562. [4:10]
  1563. so your coin will only be necessary to host names? all other content producers can use any crypto or be free right?
  1564.  
  1565. jimmyk [4:10 PM]
  1566. yes
  1567.  
  1568. jack.robison [4:10 PM]
  1569. LBC are used for the name claim process
  1570.  
  1571. [4:10]
  1572. but payments for data can be whatever
  1573.  
  1574. jimmyk [4:10 PM]
  1575. our client will only support LBC until BTC gets out a lightning network, when we plan to switch to that as the default payment
  1576.  
  1577. [4:10]
  1578. then LBC will remain necessary for buying names
  1579.  
  1580. vqp [4:10 PM]
  1581. the directory of names is also on the distributed database , right? along with the chunk directory?
  1582.  
  1583. outragedhuman [4:11 PM]
  1584. So when someone goes to download "some content" (let's stick with the pool fart video) does a price appear and they click a button to pay, how does that work?
  1585.  
  1586. jack.robison [4:11 PM]
  1587. name records are in the blockchain
  1588.  
  1589. jimmyk [4:11 PM]
  1590. the names are stored in the blockchain, and chunks are located via our DHT
  1591.  
  1592. [4:11]
  1593. two different fully decentralized systems
  1594.  
  1595. finer9 [4:11 PM]
  1596. @outraged basically.  the implementations can be varied
  1597.  
  1598. vqp [4:11 PM]
  1599. oh I see
  1600.  
  1601. jimmyk [4:12 PM]
  1602. @outragedhuman that's about right, a price shows up and they click download and the client sends the credits where the name holder said to send them
  1603.  
  1604. outragedhuman [4:12 PM]
  1605. gotcha
  1606.  
  1607. jack.robison [4:12 PM]
  1608. the overall process will be something like: 1. Retrieve name record, 2. Download metadata blob, 3. Retrieve price quotes for each piece
  1609.  
  1610. [4:13]
  1611. then add on the key fee, and you've got a total estimated cost
  1612.  
  1613. outragedhuman [4:13 PM]
  1614. One payment unlimited access, or multiple levels of payments possible?
  1615.  
  1616. [4:13]
  1617. Subscriptions possible?
  1618.  
  1619. jimmyk [4:13 PM]
  1620. that depends on what clients people write
  1621.  
  1622. vqp [4:14 PM]
  1623. @outragedhuman: that can be easily done in the client
  1624.  
  1625. jimmyk [4:14 PM]
  1626. ours currently only pays once when you save the file
  1627.  
  1628. outragedhuman [4:14 PM]
  1629. hmmm, how would the client control that
  1630.  
  1631. jack.robison [4:14 PM]
  1632. another thing to consider is that lbry stores content, data
  1633.  
  1634. outragedhuman [4:14 PM]
  1635. seems the name record would have to control that to avoid exploitation (I modify my client to never require any payment)
  1636.  
  1637. jack.robison [4:14 PM]
  1638. that's not necessarily a straight .mp4 file
  1639.  
  1640. [4:15]
  1641. you can have applications stored on lbry that do complex things
  1642.  
  1643. jimmyk [4:15 PM]
  1644. probably not easily, would require a binary and DRM
  1645.  
  1646. jack.robison [4:15 PM]
  1647. yeah
  1648.  
  1649. outragedhuman [4:15 PM]
  1650. i'll have you know that DRM gets cracked millions of times a day, lol
  1651.  
  1652. jack.robison [4:15 PM]
  1653. for most it just isn't worth it
  1654.  
  1655. finer9 [4:16 PM]
  1656. there's always going to be ​*some*​ way with any tech right
  1657.  
  1658. jimmyk [4:16 PM]
  1659. well our clients are certainly not going to try to implement any DRM
  1660.  
  1661. jack.robison [4:16 PM]
  1662. media companies don't make their bread and butter chasing the niche of those who are determined to pirate, they make it by making it easy and cheap enough that the niche is small
  1663.  
  1664. sigwo [4:17 PM]
  1665. what is the benefit of a regular consumer using this instead of paying $25 a year to apple and listen to whatever they want?
  1666.  
  1667. vqp [4:17 PM]
  1668. The more I used torrents the more I'm eager to pay for somebody to curate/organize the content
  1669.  
  1670. outragedhuman [4:17 PM]
  1671. for the right price yes ^
  1672.  
  1673. jack.robison [4:17 PM]
  1674. and on top of that people value doing the legitimate thing, not breaking the law, when following the law isn't prohibitively expensive people can be expected to do so
  1675.  
  1676. outragedhuman [4:18 PM]
  1677. Eh, somewhat. Take a valuable suite of software like Photoshop or Solidworks/Autocad and those lines can blur
  1678.  
  1679. jack.robison [4:18 PM]
  1680. and the cherry on top is that people value directly dealing with the content creator
  1681.  
  1682. finer9 [4:18 PM]
  1683. @sigwo the truth is that maybe Netflix is a better value for a while, obviously.  The idea is that longer term there will be a much wider variety of content available for a better price.
  1684.  
  1685. vqp [4:18 PM]
  1686. exactly my netflix catalog sucks big time
  1687.  
  1688. [4:19]
  1689. and all due to lawyers and old dinosaurs
  1690.  
  1691. sigwo [4:19 PM]
  1692. all about who will pay enough to list the content
  1693.  
  1694. [4:19]
  1695. :wink:
  1696.  
  1697. jack.robison [4:19 PM]
  1698. it's also due to the fact netflix is offering a bundle, not a single good
  1699.  
  1700. finer9 [4:19 PM]
  1701. or who wants to utilize the protocol etc
  1702.  
  1703. jack.robison [4:19 PM]
  1704. they have to determine what to put in that bundle to maximize total revenue
  1705.  
  1706. outragedhuman [4:19 PM]
  1707. A La Carte cable tv...........the blockchain does that
  1708.  
  1709. finer9 [4:19 PM]
  1710. pretty cheap bundle tho
  1711.  
  1712. jack.robison [4:19 PM]
  1713. right
  1714.  
  1715. finer9 [4:19 PM]
  1716. but yes
  1717.  
  1718. sigwo [4:20 PM]
  1719. pretty rad stuff
  1720.  
  1721. fate [4:20 PM]
  1722. if you attract content providers
  1723.  
  1724. vqp [4:20 PM]
  1725. bundles are attractive to people, Nick Szabo has an article about "selecting choices is mind expensive" or smtg
  1726.  
  1727. fate [4:20 PM]
  1728. which would need money streams that avoid any tokens
  1729.  
  1730. [4:20]
  1731. LBC and BTC and such
  1732.  
  1733. jack.robison [4:20 PM]
  1734. from the user standpoint it doesnt really look different
  1735.  
  1736. sigwo [4:20 PM]
  1737. but will the content providers ​_want_​ to curate and advertise and market their own stuff?
  1738.  
  1739. jack.robison [4:20 PM]
  1740. you search lbry and find what you want, little do you know it's coming from a thousand different sources
  1741.  
  1742. sigwo [4:20 PM]
  1743. all the things they get for just being ​_on_​ netflix or Apple Radio or Spotify
  1744.  
  1745. finer9 [4:20 PM]
  1746. maybe it is market-curated :simple_smile:
  1747.  
  1748. jack.robison [4:21 PM]
  1749. you search netflix and find what you want (hopefully), and it comes straight from them
  1750.  
  1751. sigwo [4:21 PM]
  1752. ^^ tracking
  1753.  
  1754. jack.robison [4:21 PM]
  1755. to the user they don't care what server hosts the content, they just want cheap, easy, and trustworthy access
  1756.  
  1757. vqp [4:21 PM]
  1758. @finer9 "market curated"  will you have some stats on the most downloaded hashes and the like?
  1759.  
  1760. finer9 [4:22 PM]
  1761. @vqp No idea, I just made that up ... but I think you know just what I mean, sure
  1762.  
  1763. [4:22]
  1764. :simple_smile:
  1765.  
  1766. [4:22]
  1767. it's like well, how is reddit and digg etc curated
  1768.  
  1769. vqp [4:22 PM]
  1770. you can even pay a dime to a content provider that provide exactly that: a list of content curators ordered by user-ratings
  1771.  
  1772. jack.robison [4:23 PM]
  1773. @sigwo: the idea is that content creators aren't necessarily content distributors
  1774.  
  1775. [4:23]
  1776. you can own content and be paid for it, and let someone else worry about how it gets to the consumer
  1777.  
  1778. sigwo [4:23 PM]
  1779. yes, like netflix :simple_smile:
  1780.  
  1781. jack.robison [4:23 PM]
  1782. that's why they use publishers and whatnot
  1783.  
  1784. [4:23]
  1785. yeah
  1786.  
  1787. [4:23]
  1788. what this does is connect the content creators to the distributors in a competitive and very low friction way
  1789.  
  1790. vqp [4:24 PM]
  1791. another question: i've seen other projects similar to this one
  1792.  
  1793. [4:24]
  1794. what are them and why are you better?
  1795.  
  1796. finer9 [4:25 PM]
  1797. Alexandria is one of them.  Probably has the most similarities.  Many others that people compare are really more for storage, like storj.   Also Maid, Decred, few others
  1798.  
  1799. [4:25]
  1800. The unique naming system is important, plus a team that can execute.
  1801.  
  1802. jack.robison [4:25 PM]
  1803. i don't think there are any other projects that have either a name space system or a data marketplace, never mind both
  1804.  
  1805. [4:25]
  1806. there are similar projects to be sure
  1807.  
  1808. finer9 [4:25 PM]
  1809. and hopefully fundraise, which we are doing now
  1810.  
  1811. vqp [4:26 PM]
  1812. I wish you the best of lucks
  1813.  
  1814. [4:26]
  1815. *luck
  1816.  
  1817. finer9 [4:26 PM]
  1818. appreciate the engagement @vqp!
  1819.  
  1820. [4:26]
  1821. I have to split, but you guys know I'm always around here.
  1822.  
  1823. [4:26]
  1824. Anyone has interest in the LBRY slack let me know
  1825.  
  1826. vqp [4:26 PM]
  1827. were are you guys located? EST?
  1828.  
  1829. finer9 [4:27 PM]
  1830. Yes
  1831.  
  1832. vqp [4:27 PM]
  1833. *where
  1834.  
  1835. finer9 [4:27 PM]
  1836. NH/MA/PA
  1837.  
  1838. vqp [4:27 PM]
  1839. Pitt anyone?
  1840.  
  1841. finer9 [4:27 PM]
  1842. I'm in the Philly area, but not so close to Pitt
  1843.  
  1844. [4:28]
  1845. 3 people are around Manchester, NH
  1846.  
  1847. vqp [4:28 PM]
  1848. ok, great thanks for the AMA
  1849.  
  1850. finer9 [4:28 PM]
  1851. All that Libertarian goodness :simple_smile:
  1852.  
  1853. [4:28]
  1854. Thank you all
  1855.  
  1856. jimmyk [4:28 PM]
  1857. thanks!
  1858.  
  1859. sigwo [4:34 PM]
  1860. sorry, kiddo bathtime called
  1861.  
  1862. [4:35]
  1863. thanks for the info LBRY!
  1864.  
  1865. jack.robison [4:36 PM]
  1866. if anyone on os x has issues with the alpha feel free to pm me!
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