5006 on *ideas (#18356)                       // Fri Nov  5 15:32:56 2010 CDT
  gangland cameras~                            // From: Berrik $
   Category             | Status                // Unassigned
   Game Mechanics       | New                   // +17/ -2 votes

  Make these smashable and EMPable, and only make them work when they're in
    decent repair. It's a camera hanging off of a pole, fuck you.

  An area-wide surveillance system is a powerful thing and IMO it should be
    harder to maintain~

  > Berrik $     changed type: Game Mechanics
    Nov 5 15:33
  > Beortrix     Perhaps it should also be possible to sneak by
    Nov 5 15:34    them, and have them train sneak at about 1/4 the
                   rate of FCPD cams
  > Paranoium    nerf cammsssssss no seriously nerf them
    Nov 5 15:35
  > Damian       possibly their condition would determine how much
    Nov 5 15:35    sneak you need to get by them
  > Mason        I have a feeling NDY is responsible for alot of
    Nov 5 15:37    these +1's
  > Lorden       you are very inituitive
    Nov 5 15:37
  > distress     my text itmes ;_;
    Nov 5 15:37
  > Madieree     Cure the symptoms, ignore the disease. :D
    Nov 5 15:40
  > laser_spider What's stopping you from disabling the network by
    Nov 5 15:45    hacking the cams?
  > Frog         We are too dumb to hack things
    Nov 5 15:45
  > Paranoium    The fact that someone with a rediculous hack total
    Nov 5 15:45    has already hacked the cams?
  > GOKU         MY CAMS
    Nov 5 15:46
  > Damian       hacking is uninteruptable so you're pretty much
    Nov 5 15:46    screwed if they find you
  > laser_spider Then go with a tough dude who can protect your nerd
    Nov 5 15:46    ass.
  > laser_spider But yeah, they should probably get easier to hack
    Nov 5 15:47    the longer it's been since they were last hacked.
  > Alastor      i have to yet to see anything to suggest this is a
    Nov 5 15:47    good idea game mechanic wise. all this would do
                   is make cam hacking useless except for grinding
                   hack or repair ip
  > Midna        Then just make them vulnerable to EMP, but not
    Nov 5 15:48    smashing. That would stop people from just
                   smashing everything on a routine trip through
                   gangland.
  > Paranoium    the real truth: people are being constantly griefed
    Nov 5 15:48    by cops and they want to blame the cams (the
                   blame is probably not misplaced)
  > Venom        and heeaaaar come the tears
    Nov 5 15:49
  > Midna        I do support the concept of making them smashable,
    Nov 5 15:49    though, but only with EMP damage.
  > laser_spider What if EMP damage just scrambled the cam for a
    Nov 5 15:50    little while, perhaps so that you could hack
                   without it immediately alerting the corp who owns
                   it?
  > mazui        Could make the cams hackable over
    Nov 5 15:51    cyberdeck/internet. It would be a little harder
                   to hack but only another hacker can 'combat' you
                   for damage over the net. Basically blow up your
                   DNI
  > Jed          Beortrix, it's already possible to sneak by them.
    Nov 5 15:51
  > Paranoium    Actually, getting hurt in the matrix is already
    Nov 5 15:51    implemented, and you get brainrot. also I like
                   that ideas
  > Madieree     But how did things get to the point where so many
    Nov 5 15:52    people were just afraid of just a few guys? You
                   guy could team up and kill anything ndy and cops
                   could throw at you. They are mortal~
  > Beortrix     Laser: The SAIYANS track down not only the one who
    Nov 5 15:53    hacks cams, but the rest of the corp, anywhere
                   they are. I'll grant you the counterhacking, but
                   when the cost of hacking cams back is getting
                   your low skill players actively hunted down,
                   well, it just makes more sense to just completely
                   ignore gangland them to try and go back hack the
                   cams back.
  > Madieree     They are going to kill you anyway.. maybe you
    Nov 5 15:54    should some diplomacy with other corps and rid
                   gangland of this problem.
  > Midna        Ummm. 'Teaming up', though everybody considers it,
    Nov 5 15:54    doesn't really work unless you're ALWAYS in the
                   same place with several others. And that, aside
                   from being impractical (and improbable), makes
                   you a huge target for explosives. 4 kills for the
                   price of just one clusternuke, for example.
  > distress     aka pay ndy your money for him not to kill you
    Nov 5 15:54
  > Beortrix     Jed: I hadn't realized that. Does it train sneak
    Nov 5 15:55    too?
  > Alastor      the cams have always been a source of conquest and
    Nov 5 15:55    warfare, one corp dominating all the cams is
                   nothing new but actually very old. if you dislike
                   their control of the cams, do something about it.
  > Paranoium    the problem is that everybody is terrified of the
    Nov 5 15:56    corp that has the cams! nobody will stand up to
                   this elite group!
  > Midna        Being able to see people through the cams, however,
    Nov 5 15:56    is a lot newer and a lot more useful, if I
                   recall.
  > Jed          No, training sneak on the cams would be too easy to
    Nov 5 15:57    grind.
  > Lorden       before it was just a way for a corp to get ahead of
    Nov 5 15:57    another by getting extra money, now it's a
                   complete area denial tool, nobody not in COPS or
                   an n-tag goes into gangland whenever any of the
                   saiyans or tuff cops are online.
  > Jed          Sorry guys, hellmoo's not an easy game. You
    Nov 5 15:59    outnumber COPS/SAIYAN 10 to 1, but if you can't
                   bother to work together to fight back against
                   them then they deserve to hold gangland.
  > Frog         Basically, Gangland is unusuable because of the
    Nov 5 16:00    cams. Get someone with ridiculously high hack, a
                   few good combat people to kill the weakling who
                   try to hack it. The cams should be harder to
                   maintain for the massive benifits they give to a
                   corp.
  > Midna        This isn't feasible for reasons I just outlined: as
    Nov 5 16:00    soon as you disband you're entirely vulnerable
                   again. It's not like in some kind of movie in
                   which the enemies you kill stay down; they can
                   reclone, just like you can.
  > Paranoium    yes the entire discussion is beyond the real point:
    Nov 5 16:00    make the cams harder to maintain.
  > Madieree     I agree with Jed on this one. I think you guys need
    Nov 5 16:01    to talk to each other more. They kill you all the
                   time anyway and there is a limited amount of
                   times they can nuke you. Just get it done :P
  > Jed          Nothing's preventing you and your friends from
    Nov 5 16:01    getting good at hacking and murdering. If the
                   benefits are that good, feel free to do that and
                   then take cams for yourself.
  > Paranoium    there is a problem with your argument jed: nobody
    Nov 5 16:02    cooperates in hellmoo save for rare instances and
                   those involving payment
  > Alastor      dudes in COPS cooperate. you do not cooperate.
    Nov 5 16:02    therefore, you lose.
  > Grunthawg    a big problem is a lot of hellmoo can't even walk
    Nov 5 16:03    around without fucking it up ... this is just a
                   fact of mud gaming imo, and the solution is more
                   goons
  > distress     ^
    Nov 5 16:03
  > Jed          Yes, but that's *your* problem. We're not going to
    Nov 5 16:03    make you be good at hellmoo. Like Alastor said,
                   the cam owners are cooperating while you're
                   whining here about how you can't cooperate. Do
                   what they do, and you can have what they have.
  > Grunthawg    and for non goons, more time spent playing hellmoo
    Nov 5 16:04    with heavy typing classes
  > Paranoium    It isn't taking any cooperation! It takes one
    Nov 5 16:04    person to hack the cams, and then one person
                   later to defend them if anyone even tries.
  > Madieree     I just hacked a cam with 25 total hack. that isn't
    Nov 5 16:06    very hard :P
  > Beortrix     I second paranoium. Its not a question of the
    Nov 5 16:13    ACTUAL hack. Thats not too hard. Its the
                   retaliation. There is no real cooperation between
                   cops and saiyan, other then saiyan having access
                   to the cam signal. Even if we cooperated, there
                   isn't much that can be done other then having
                   every non cop/saiyan in gangland fighting over
                   the cams.
  > GOKU         Cops and saiyan are on a ventrilo server at all
    Nov 5 16:16    times, we have 5 people who can and will seek
                   you. Dont idle in your appartments, we will track
                   you down and add this data to our privet wiki.
                   Let me assure you now that you have no hope.
  > Midna        The sad thing is that I can attest to this.
    Nov 5 16:16
  > Berrik $     I was originally gonna idea just making cameras
    Nov 5 16:28    disableable temporarily with emp grenades, but
                   those are kind of expensive considering how many
                   you'd have to fry to get to somewhere useful.
                   Also, it's not like the person smashing cameras
                   wouldn't show up on the cameras.
  > Chinaski $   Increase clone times for all members of COPS and
    Nov 5 17:22    SAIYAN
  > Madieree     Also, isn't there a scramble suit that helps avoid
    Nov 5 18:09    cams?
  > Benthic      I'll start off by saying that I do have an alt in
    Nov 5 18:38    COPS, but I rarely log on, and for obvious
                   reasons, I haven't been doing any PvPing for
                   quite a long time now, so I might be missing out
                   on some new things that COPS put together. That
                   said, I think that most of you are
                   misinterpreting the situation. Aside from the
                   ventrilo server, the large number of mediums,
                   massive stashed stickycam network, control of the
                   FC mayoral office, gangland cams, and huge number
                   of planes and high end homes, COPS/SAIYAN doesn't
                   have much at all. It would probably be very easy
                   to hack the gangland cams back. Alternately, if
                   you do not have hacking skills, you could
                   probably avoid being targeted by SAIYAN simply by
                   not carrying things worth stealing. You probably
                   do not need a fine katana to kill serial killers
                   and crackfiends, for instance.
  > Midna        Is this advice that you actually follow, or is this
    Nov 5 18:38    just common sense? Because common sense doesn't
                   really apply in HellMOO.
  > Benthic      Really, though, in all of my time as a player, I
    Nov 5 18:41    have almost always avoided carrying valuables,
                   and it works out great. Try to avoid carrying
                   anything that you can't get for free at a minimum
                   of effort and danger.
  > GREYHOUND    don't bring anything you aren't afraid to lose !
    Nov 5 18:53    - also pretty much just don't be a fag and you
                   won't be griefed
  > Edwin        Also if you whine and cry about being griefed it'll
    Nov 6 07:29    just happen even more. So what I'm saying is
                   after I've killed you tell me how awesome I am
                   and make me feel good about myself and I probably
                   won't grief you again.
 ______________________________________________________________________________