Klacelul

9:38 PM - Klace: Hey there :)
9:38 PM - Azure: Oh hello! Sorry, I think I might have accidently ignored your friend request the first time.
9:39 PM - Azure: Is there anything I can help you with?
9:39 PM - Klace: No worries.
9:41 PM - Klace: I was told to talk to you as you're one of the admins of the Furry group on Steam. I'm developing a furry game and I've launched it on Steam early access and it has trading cards and the whole shabang.. I was open to talking business -- such as a cross promotion between the group and the game, or really open the brainstorming anything together that might be beneficial to both parties.
9:42 PM - Klace: A game on Steam gets hundreds of thousands of impressions a day, I was hoping maybe I could send some target market traffic your way also in exchange for the same as your group does have an impressive head count -- and the content of the game appeals to both markets we would be targeting.
9:44 PM - Klace: Of course I can also speak compensation of some sort, as I said I'm open to brainstorming.
9:50 PM - Azure: Yeah, you were probably refered to I since I'm the owner of the group and I deal with these kind of things.
9:52 PM - Azure: To be honest, our group is a very casual one; it has no specific goal, doesn't cater to anyone/anything in particular. It's just a big friendly group for Furries on Steam. It's honestly all about or comments, discussions and our group chat; we do not host any servers apart from our Teamspeak. Numbers just come naturally since we have the most known group on Steam, but I don't think we need any kind of advertisement.
9:55 PM - Klace: Yes, but those who join the group are furries, as are those that play the game. I think there is a synergistic relationship we can work with here -- as this seems to be the first game made for the fandom that has reached such mainstream exposure.
9:58 PM - Klace: I don't think anyone in the group would be opposed to hearing of his title as it caters to the fandom at its heart; without any specific goal, either.
9:59 PM - Klace: Let me know if you change your mind and are willing to discuss compensation or a cut of the sales. The project has been pushing 1000 or so units a day thus far.
10:02 PM - Azure: The thing is, I don't see how this relation could be synergistic; getting more people to join our group really doesn't benefit us; as I said, this is a extremely casual group, and numbers are definitely not important to us. Even if most people would not be against hearing from projects or games such as this, it would be extremely unfair to the dozens of people trying to get us to advertise their stream, projects, games or anything like that we've turned down. I also couldn't really take a money compensation; this wouldn't be fair to all the people who have contributed to the group over the years, and I'm honestly not sure how I could give said money back to the group itself. I can try to think of something, though for now, I don't really see it.
10:05 PM - Klace: I know that it's not about the numbers, however this sense of community you've described -- it wouldn't be that community without the numbers. Myself sending fellow furries your way, and you doing so in return provides both of us with a greater community. Sure, you can scrutinize it down to being about numbers, but my aim would be to increase the furry community presence in both sides.
10:06 PM - Klace: You wouldn't be able to say that you have the most known group on Steam were it not for your numbers.
10:10 PM - Klace: I also don't believe that anyone would think that you are making an exception when you wouldn't plug their stream and project and whatnot -- as I don't believe any of them have been on Steam. A Steam store link posted in a Steam Group actually integrates fully as a little widget.
10:16 PM - Klace: This has been a huge community effort, community maintained and sustained. We have endorsemnts from major furries such as Uncle Kage, Telephon, 2 Gryphon; and contributions from major furries as well, such as NIIC The Singing Dog. I just thought I would like to make the furry channel on Steam a part of this project as well because I believe it will be very special for the fandom to receive such mainstream exposure that doesn't perpetuate any negative fandom stereotypes.
10:28 PM - Klace: Anyways, that's as best a case as I can plead; I'm not going to speak on it further and push your hand. But if you can think of anything, just let me know. I could even put your fursona in the game perhaps. Thinking outside the box for ways we could make an exchange.
10:27 PM - Azure: Yes, but we don't really care about said numbers. We say we're the biggest group on Steam because it ended up happening and we are; we didn't TRY to make it happen.  And don't worry, I know how harsh it is to start something like this that catches on and isn't full of the usual furry bullshit stuff. As I said, I just don't think the benefit of increasing each other's community outweighs the negative of starting to advertise in a group that has been completely neutral about everything for over 8 years. I think this is why our group is more popular than it's ever been (We doubled our numbers in the last year alone); we're just there to be there, to be a hub for furries on Steam, where everyone can discuss small stuff in the discussions as well as meet other people in the chat and comments. I just don't think it would be right to advertise one game in particular.
10:29 PM - Azure: Putting my shark in the game is almost the same thing as the monetary compensation; it wouldn't be fair for me to get something like this on the back of the group.
10:29 PM - Azure: ;P
10:30 PM - Klace: That's a pretty impressive number increase for 1 year :)

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11:07 - Klace: Hey...
11:08 - Klace: I'm here to ask why I've been kicked from the [FURRY] group again lol
11:08 - Klace: This time I really didn't do anything... I haven't been in the chat room for weeks or the discussion boards.
11:08 - Klace: Do you kick for inactivity or something?
11:20 - Klace is now Away.
11:23 - Tyrannotaur: I checked the log and it seems like Nutmeg kicked you out of the group yesterday.  No idea why though. =/
11:23 - Klace is now Online.
11:24 - Tyrannotaur: And no, we don't kick for inactivity.
11:24 - Klace: Yeah I definitely didn't do anything.
11:25 - Klace: Haha
11:25 - Tyrannotaur: As long as you're following the rules, I see no reason for you to be kicked, so I am baffled. =/
11:26 - Klace: That's what I thought also!
11:27 - Klace: This is the second time I've had to ask to be let back in after being removed for no reason.
11:30 - Tyrannotaur: I'll ask him about it.
11:30 - Klace: Thanks!
11:49 - Klace: Keep me updated I am also interesting in learning what happened.
12:21 - Tyrannotaur: Well, I don't have the complete facts but I was told something happened involving you and the group within the last few days.
12:21 - Klace: I haven't been in the group chat or the discussion board for a few weeks lol
12:21 - Klace: I just got the removal notice yesterday morning
12:22 - Tyrannotaur: You will have to talk with Nutmeg.  This is out of my hands, sorry.
12:22 - Klace: Would they be willing to talk with me?
12:22 - Klace: They kicked me, after all
12:23 - Klace: This is the reason why there's multiple moderators
12:24 - Klace: There's no reason why I should have been kicked. I haven't been active in the group, it would have been impossible for me to break any rules.
12:26 - Tyrannotaur: I wasn't the one who removed you so you will have to take it up with him.  I can't say whether he will speak to you or not, sorry.
12:26 - Klace: You helped me get back in last time I was removed without explanation.
12:27 - Klace: It's not fair at all to leave this in the hands of a person who removed me without explanation and is unlikely to ever respond to me.
12:28 - Klace is now Offline.
12:28 - Tyrannotaur: Like I said, you have to contact him, sorry.
12:29 - Klace is currently offline, they will receive your message the next time they log in.
12:30 - Tyrannotaur: Alternative is to speak with Azure if you don't like a decision made by one of the admins.
12:30 - Klace is now Online.
12:30 - Klace: Azure doesn't really accept friend requests
12:30 - Klace: It is reasonable for me to expect you to contact your boss and come to a conclusion together
12:31 - Klace: You're an admin
12:31 - Klace: Directing me to someone who obviously just doesn't like me and removed me for no reason is not a way to resolve a conflict
12:33 - Klace: It sends me to a dead end :/
12:36 - Klace is now Online.
12:36 - Tyrannotaur: I've already tried, but I am not in control of the other admins in this group, sorry.
12:37 - Klace is now Online.
12:37 - Klace: You are in control of yourself
12:37 - Klace: And it is within your power to see that I was banned for no reason
12:37 - Klace: There's no logs or posts by me breaking any rules because I haven't been active in weeks in the group
12:38 - Klace: As an admin you can decide to let me back in after your investigation provides no cause
12:38 - Klace: It's not my job to go ask someone who kicked me out why they kicked me out
12:39 - Klace: You even said yourself there was no reason to be seen
12:41 - Klace: If you want me to escalate this to Azure I'll provide this log as evidence that you neglected your duty and told me to take care of it myself. That's not an action befitting an admin.
12:41 - Klace: You have access to chat logs, post history, ban reasons, etc.... as an admin.
12:41 - Klace: It is within your power and duty to investigate these issues.
12:44 - Tyrannotaur: Sorry, but I can't help.  Feel free to show him this log.
12:44 - Klace: I will
12:45 - Klace: You are unable to provide me with a reason for my ban (a reason must actually be inputted when banning someone)
12:46 - Klace: A reason for a ban is required as per the Steam TOS, and a ban without reason or context is against the TOS
12:47 - Klace: The fact that you cannot provide a reason shows that there is none inputted, as you would see it when looking at the administrative actions
12:47 - Klace: And you're directing me to the person that unjustly kicked me out of the group to try and help me get back in?
12:49 - Klace: Tyrannotaur: I checked the log and it seems like Nutmeg kicked you out of the group yesterday.  No idea why though. =/
Tyrannotaur: And no, we don't kick for inactivity.
Klace: Yeah I definitely didn't do anything.
Klace: Haha
Tyrannotaur: As long as you're following the rules, I see no reason for you to be kicked, so I am baffled. =/
12:49 - Klace: There's proof that I haven't broken the rules and you're unwilling to repeal my ban even with the evidence in front of you.
12:51 - Klace: I will escalate this to Azure and report the group to Steam (I'm a Steamworks Developer) for breaking the Community Guidelines regarding unruly bans if this issue is not fixed on your end promptly.

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2:52 PM - Azure: Oi, can I help you?
2:53 PM - Azure: Sorry for the abrupt removal; I tend to clean up my friends list very often.
2:53 PM - Klace: Well, I was kicked from the group by a "Nutmeg" for no reason yesterday. I haven't been active therefore I can't have broken any of the group rules.
2:54 PM - Klace: There's no reason given for the ban, as another admin has told me. But instead of helping me in any way they directed me to Nutmeg -- the person who removed me for no reason, who obviously would not be willing to talk to me about this.
2:55 PM - Azure: Yeah, that's how we deal with things here; we don't unban other people's ban, you have to talk with whoever banned you.
2:56 PM - Klace: So you're saying I'm screwed?
2:56 PM - Azure: Has he refused to talk to you?
2:56 PM - Klace: Because Nutmeg isn't willing to talk to me, nor have they provided a reason for my ban.
2:56 PM - Klace: As the group owner you have the tools to investigate and see that there's no reason or context for this ban.
2:57 PM - Klace: Think about it logically. What rule could I have broken to get banned yesterday when I haven't really been active for weeks?
2:58 PM - Klace: You can see chat logs and discussion board posts, etc...
2:58 PM - Azure: I'll check it out, but I have to say, I really don't appreciate you threatening our group over this.
2:59 PM - Azure: There is also no such thing as chat logs.
3:00 PM - Klace: I'm not threatening. There was no reason given for the ban which is against Steam's TOS.
3:00 PM - Klace: This is above me and Nutmeg now. This has to be a matter you take into your own hands. And you may want to discuss abuse of power with Nutmeg.
3:01 PM - Klace: You were very firm on your stance that your group values community, and you've shut down hate/drama in the past.
3:02 PM - Azure: Honestly curious, where in Steam TOS does it say we have to give reasons for chat bans?
3:02 PM - Klace: I'm talking about the group ban, the chat ban came with it.
3:03 PM - Klace: I believe they either did it on accident as there is no reason, or perhaps they saw some of the hate towards me and just thought I was a bad person and removed me.
3:04 PM - Klace: Because I have not been active in the group chat for weeks. Nor have I posted in the group forum.
3:05 PM - Klace: Tyranotaur said now that something seems to have happened between me and the group over the last few days or something like that.
3:05 PM - Klace: Without me being active in the group the only possible option is that drama about me or my game came to the group.
3:06 PM - Azure: Sorry, I have a visitor; I'll be back with you shortly :x
3:07 PM - Klace: Alright
3:10 PM - Klace: I think it's fair though to assume that we both agree someone needs a reason to be banned. No one should be banned without reason and especially not under the influence of bandwagon drama and hate. I cannot think of any logical reason for my ban, as I have simply not been active in the group over the last few weeks at all. I understand that in the future I will be banned if I break any of the groups rules, but my inactivity makes it an impossibility to have broken a single rule.
3:33 PM - Azure: Hmkay.
3:34 PM - Azure: Also, for your information, this is essentially a private group; we do not need a reason to kick, ban, remove or whatever from our group, as long as we don't break any of the global Community Guidelines.
3:35 PM - Klace: The copy of the Community Guidelines Steam gave to me for the group of my game says always provide as detailed a reason you can for a ban. That's where I got that from is all.
3:35 PM - Azure: And saying ''You're not threatening'' when you basically told one of my admins that ''As a Steamworks Developer you would report our group to Steam'' is rather silly.
3:35 PM - Azure: I talked with a Steam Community Moderator just now, and there is no such thing for non-official groups.
3:36 PM - Klace: Alright
3:36 PM - Klace: Well the reasoning they gave me is that it reflects badly on your group and public appearance to ban without reason.
3:37 PM - Klace: I think that's universal whether or not it's a rule on unofficial groups.
3:36 PM - Azure: As long as the Global Community rules  ( https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4045-USHJ-3810 ) are not broken, we are free to do as we please.
3:38 PM - Klace: I didn't know it was different, my apologies.
3:38 PM - Azure: We have well over 1500 bans by now. As I've already explained before, we really don't care about public appearance or whatever. It's just a big group to gather furries from all around the world. If someone's causing any kind of trouble and is removed, no one really cares.
3:38 PM - Klace: Well I would like to be part of the community and I haven't really done anything to deserve getting banned.
3:39 PM - Klace: I don't believe that I broke any of the group rules.
3:41 PM - Klace: I would very much like to be a part of the community.
3:43 PM - Klace: Is there anything we can do? I really don't feel like I broke any rules because I haven't utilized the group too much in the last few weeks.
3:47 PM - Azure: From what I understood, you told a friend (which was also friends with one of us) that we were liars and fuckwits. This is also after you were already on a pretty thin rope for advertising your game in the chat.
3:48 PM - Klace: I don't curse, so that can't be too accurate
3:48 PM - Klace: And with the hate I was receiving I know much better than to spread lies about people behind their backs lol
3:49 PM - Klace: I posted a link to the Greenlight in chat once before the game was Greenlit and was warned to refrain from doing that
3:49 PM - Klace: But that was months ago
3:49 PM - Azure: That wasn't the only time :v
3:49 PM - Klace: What was the other?
3:49 PM - Klace: Wait
3:50 PM - Klace: One time I believe I explicitly asked an admin in the chat if it would be okay to post a link
3:50 PM - Azure: You weren't too subtle when you joined the chat and went like ''Aw damn, I just crafted the badge for my game Minor/Major but I didn't get the Steam Background I wanted!''
3:51 PM - Klace: That's advertising?
3:51 PM - Klace: What if I said Call of Duty Black Ops III instead of Major\Minor is that still advertising?
3:51 PM - Azure: Please. :v
3:51 PM - Klace: Please what?
3:52 PM - Klace: I also think you know me a little better than to think I'd go around calling people "liars and fuckwits" especially given the topics of our previous conversations.
3:52 PM - Azure: It's the only thing you said and you left the chat shortly after.
3:52 PM - Azure: And I honestly don't know you, so I wouldn't know.
3:52 PM - Klace: Many of our previous conversations have been about unwarranted hate and drama and talking about people behind their back.
3:53 PM - Klace: You even linked me to a person who was doing it about me.
3:53 PM - Klace: Why would I have a reason to call you guys "liars and fuckwits"?
3:53 PM - Klace: You've been nothing but kind to me and even helped make me aware of some of the stuff that was spreading about me.
3:54 PM - Klace: Well also if that does count as advertising then I won't even mention my game in the group chat in the future.
3:56 PM - Klace: I don't even know what it would be possible for you or your group to have lied about.
3:55 PM - Azure: I'll be honest here, unless something like, the admin who banned the person not being part of the team anymore happens, it's pretty much always up to whoever banned someone to decide if they unban them or not.
3:56 PM - Klace: But you're the group owner.
3:56 PM - Azure: Sure am, but that's how we've ran things for 7 years.
3:56 PM - Klace: My profile was private and I wasn't accepting any friend requests for weeks.
3:57 PM - Klace: I would never talk trash about you or your group.
3:58 PM - Klace: Please can't you just let me back in?
3:58 PM - Klace: I don't think Nutmeg would even be willing to talk to me even moreso if they think I called you all liars and fuckwits.
3:58 PM - Klace: Furthermore, why would  I want back in if that's the impression I had of the group...?
3:59 PM - Klace: It doesn't make much sense and I know you can see that as well.
4:00 PM - Klace: You can be guaranteed that I'll never talk about my game again in the group chat.
4:00 PM - Klace: But as for what evidently said in a personal chat (with no proof mind you), are you now allowing admins to moderate people based on their own personal conversations?
4:00 PM - Azure: Absolutely.
4:00 PM - Azure: o.o
4:01 PM - Azure: It's not a democracy. The people I have as admins are people I've known for years and that I completely trust.
4:02 PM - Klace: So you honestly think that I'd go to such lengths to get back into a group I thought was owned by people I previously called liars and fuckwits?
4:02 PM - Klace: It makes no sense.
4:02 PM - Klace: You know the amount of fabricated evidence and hate that was going around about me previously.
4:02 PM - Klace: You even helped me with some of it.
4:05 PM - Klace: Is it not entirely possible that they saw some of the fake evidence, or someone (and there are many) who had it out for me falsely brought up this "liars and fuckwits" claim because they wanted to have me removed?
4:11 PM - Klace: I'm leaving it up to you as the owner of the group.
4:11 PM - Klace is now Offline.