a guest Dec 13th, 2016 206 Never
Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!
  1. [2016-12-13 15:49:52] <Vereornox> lol scraggly
  2. [2016-12-13 15:49:55] <Vereornox> here's a flyer
  3. [2016-12-13 15:50:15] <Vereornox> 'Where does America go now?'
  4. [2016-12-13 15:50:35] <Vereornox> 'Reasons and consequences of trump being elected'
  5. [2016-12-13 15:53:57] <Vereornox> Somecrazyguy: 'A right, corrupt reality TV entertainer and casino owner, whose chief advisor has ties to Neo fascist organizations and websites, will control the mightiest imperialistic state of the world soon'
  6. [2016-12-13 15:54:26] <Vereornox> I recognize the name on this this. It's by those Marxists who keep standing near the trains and try to give everyone their newspaper
  7. [2016-12-13 15:54:49] <Somecrazyguy> speaking of wonderful germany
  8. [2016-12-13 15:54:59] <Somecrazyguy> how high are the chances of merkel getting re-elected?
  9. [2016-12-13 15:55:10] <Vereornox> too high
  10. [2016-12-13 15:55:17] <Elara> Vern, give? or sell?
  11. [2016-12-13 15:55:40] <Elara> we have some of both kinds here
  12. [2016-12-13 15:55:53] <Vereornox> they pester you unless you take them off their hands to the point where you have to get to the main building of the University for them to leave you alone Elara
  13. [2016-12-13 15:56:00] <Vereornox> Marxist assholes
  14. [2016-12-13 15:56:20] <Elara> not entirely sure how the ones who give it away fund themselves these days, they used to get money from the USSR to keep their paper going
  15. [2016-12-13 15:56:25] <Vereornox> scraggy: the right wing parties are in an upswing
  16. [2016-12-13 15:56:48] <Vereornox> So the central and left parties will throw themselves together into a cluster fuck of coalitions
  17. [2016-12-13 15:56:52] <Vereornox> to avoid them grabbing power
  18. [2016-12-13 15:58:02] <Somecrazyguy> multi-party systems have their upsides and downsides
  19. [2016-12-13 15:58:07] <Somecrazyguy> that's one of the downsides
  20. [2016-12-13 15:58:28] <Vereornox> like I said last time, I'm okay with the status quo
  21. [2016-12-13 15:58:32] <Somecrazyguy> ((by multi-party, I mean having more than just two 'real' parties like here in the states))
  22. [2016-12-13 15:58:40] <Vereornox> and I honestly prefer Merkel to her announced alternative
  23. [2016-12-13 15:58:57] <Somecrazyguy> Trump - Das Boot version
  24. [2016-12-13 15:59:29] <Vereornox> but maybe the right wing parties getting fans will make the left wing parties realize why people are unhappy with things
  25. [2016-12-13 15:59:43] <Somecrazyguy> I really doubt it
  26. [2016-12-13 15:59:49] <Somecrazyguy> Going by what just happened here
  27. [2016-12-13 16:00:10] <Somecrazyguy> Democrats lost pretty much everything
  28. [2016-12-13 16:00:21] <Vereornox> your country is in full upswing of the outrage culture on left and right sides
  29. [2016-12-13 16:00:42] <Somecrazyguy> That's fair
  30. [2016-12-13 16:01:37] <Vereornox> I thought shit was going to be the same here
  31. [2016-12-13 16:01:49] <Somecrazyguy> But I haven't seen many dem's come out and say real reasons they lost. Mostly just 'russia's fault' and 'but my popular vote'.
  32. [2016-12-13 16:01:50] <Vereornox> when people started discussion about bathrooms
  33. [2016-12-13 16:02:10] <Vereornox> as if there weren't make more. important topics
  34. [2016-12-13 16:02:26] <Elara> I've seen plenty of people making the point about voter suppression, SCG
  35. [2016-12-13 16:02:30] <Elara> so y'know
  36. [2016-12-13 16:03:22] <Vereornox> Plainly, the young progressive vote and the 'women's vote' and the 'insert minority here vote' didn't mean jack shit
  37. [2016-12-13 16:03:41] <Vereornox> and every news outlet that used those buzzwords obviously didn't give a fuck about the old people who actually go vote and decided this election
  38. [2016-12-13 16:03:46] <Somecrazyguy> I still refuse to take voter suppression seriously outside of a few extreme cases
  39. [2016-12-13 16:03:56] <Somecrazyguy> Don't you have to show ID in the UK?
  40. [2016-12-13 16:03:56] <Vereornox> based on the electoral system that has been used since forever
  41. [2016-12-13 16:04:13] <Elara> no
  42. [2016-12-13 16:04:14] — Somecrazyguy googles
  43. [2016-12-13 16:04:15] <Somecrazyguy> nope
  44. [2016-12-13 16:04:23] <Somecrazyguy> I was thinking of Canada
  45. [2016-12-13 16:04:24] <Elara> you *can* bring a polling card, if you want to
  46. [2016-12-13 16:04:29] <Elara> but it's not required
  47. [2016-12-13 16:04:55] <Elara> and we have a few cases of personation every year; never even close to enough to swing an election
  48. [2016-12-13 16:05:30] <Somecrazyguy> Different system though
  49. [2016-12-13 16:06:04] <Elara> sure - even small states have more voters, & so generally more margin for error, than the biggest constituencies in our system :P
  50. [2016-12-13 16:08:24] <Somecrazyguy> I think the fact that we have enough fraud in, NYC, for example, that everyone at this point knows about it, is a serious concern.
  51. [2016-12-13 16:08:31] <Elara> I've not seen anyone really dig out the numbers of whether the closing of polling stations, restricted voting hours, ID requirements &c &c across the US had enough effect, in enough states, to swing the election; it's hard to argue it had no effect at all
  52. [2016-12-13 16:08:46] <Vereornox> it doesn't help that all I've seen is shaming and attacks on everyone they decide was to blame for trump
  53. [2016-12-13 16:08:47] <Vereornox> I had a talk with Rhet about that
  54. [2016-12-13 16:09:37] <Somecrazyguy> especially white males
  55. [2016-12-13 16:09:56] <Vereornox> literally the point
  56. [2016-12-13 16:10:10] <Somecrazyguy> thought we'd get that out in the open though.
  57. [2016-12-13 16:10:11] <Vereornox> He posted a pic from a poster from his university
  58. [2016-12-13 16:10:33] <Vereornox> Instead of looking like "we want people to join us"  the poster was a guy beating up another guy
  59. [2016-12-13 16:10:40] <Vereornox> with the name of some right wing speaker
  60. [2016-12-13 16:10:57] <Vereornox> basically saying 'if you're not on our side already, fuck you, scum'
  61. [2016-12-13 16:11:02] <Vereornox> which is retarded
  62. [2016-12-13 16:12:25] <Vereornox> Demonization of an entire group of people doesn't work out
  63. [2016-12-13 16:12:32] <Vereornox> who would have thought
  64. [2016-12-13 16:13:42] <Rhet>
  65. [2016-12-13 16:13:56] * Rhet is now known as Rhet|away
  66. [2016-12-13 16:13:56] <Vereornox> that one
  67. [2016-12-13 16:13:59] <Vereornox> thanks Rhet
  68. [2016-12-13 16:14:21] <Vereornox> did you see the fbi report that was declassified about gamer gate scraggy
  69. [2016-12-13 16:14:33] <Vereornox> proving that the "harassment campaign" was everything but?
  70. [2016-12-13 16:15:08] <Vereornox> every threat was either by some kids who didn't know better or false flags but anti gg trolls who made bomb threats
  71. [2016-12-13 16:15:40] <Vereornox> one of the 'threatening phone calls' was literally made by a number that called the person who reported it repeatedly quite often for long conversations before the whole debacle.  
  72. [2016-12-13 16:17:11] <Vereornox> yet the narrative is still 'gamers are monsters and man children who live in the basement of their parents' because the journalists didn't like being called out on their shitty journalistic integrity.
  73. [2016-12-13 16:19:40] <Somecrazyguy> i didn't see it
  74. [2016-12-13 16:19:43] <Somecrazyguy> but we already knew
  75. [2016-12-13 16:19:48] <Somecrazyguy> also holy shit rhet
  76. [2016-12-13 16:19:56] <Somecrazyguy> that's ridiculous
  77. [2016-12-13 16:20:03] <Vereornox> Of course, but now there's tangential proof and the sjws still ignore it
  78. [2016-12-13 16:20:09] <Vereornox> because it just proves
  79. [2016-12-13 16:20:11] <Vereornox> listen to this
  80. [2016-12-13 16:20:17] <Vereornox> that the fbi is either incompetent
  81. [2016-12-13 16:20:25] <Somecrazyguy> (hahhhhh)
  82. [2016-12-13 16:20:27] <Vereornox> or on the side of the harassers
  83. [2016-12-13 16:21:06] <Vereornox> because you know, those trolls who have no power are actually Russia in the US election
  84. [2016-12-13 16:23:04] <Vereornox> really tickles my pickle old chap
  85. [2016-12-13 16:23:21] <Somecrazyguy> how very droll
  86. [2016-12-13 16:23:30] <Vereornox> ikr
  87. [2016-12-13 16:25:04] <Vereornox> just for you Sarags
  88. [2016-12-13 16:25:07] <Vereornox>
  89. [2016-12-13 16:25:09] <_> [ 1339704 0 FILE 1 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive ] -
  90. [2016-12-13 16:25:11] <Vereornox> the fbi report
  91. [2016-12-13 16:25:18] <Vereornox> In all its redacted declassified glory
  92. [2016-12-13 16:29:21] <Gundor> um
  93. [2016-12-13 16:29:40] <Gundor> I don't have time to engage with this right now
  94. [2016-12-13 16:30:16] <Gundor> but I am concerned that there may be a false dichotomy here
  95. [2016-12-13 16:31:14] → Zeikos joined (
  96. [2016-12-13 16:31:28] <Vereornox> In terms of the fbi report or how the topic of demonizing a whole group led to me mentioning gamer gate?
  97. [2016-12-13 16:33:40] <Vereornox> no actionable leads,fam. Either you claim the fbi is incompetent or you have to admit that the articles about gg being a harassment campaign were simply another narrative media pushed to demonize a group of people who demanded more ethics in game journalism.
  98. [2016-12-13 16:35:00] <Vereornox> There's articles dealing with archived posts which the fbi investigated and a blind person could've seen that claims of harassment were ridiculous, and those that did pan out were kids or anti gamer gate trolls saying they'll bomb pax.
  99. [2016-12-13 16:35:50] <Gundor> That either 'gamer gate' is a campaign by neckbeards in mom's basements to harass people
  100. [2016-12-13 16:36:01] <Gundor> or it's a scandal about ethics in game journalism
  101. [2016-12-13 16:36:27] <Vereornox> The media pushed the former narrative pretty hard.  
  102. [2016-12-13 16:38:16] <Vereornox> the people who support it push the latter narrative pretty hard. Now that the fbi report proved that the former was nothing more than attention seeking by devs who needed to be victims, I'm not inclined to believe any media outlet who pushed the former narrative so hard. This is what fake news are.
  103. [2016-12-13 16:38:30] <Vereornox> Lack of journalistic integrity and outrage articles
  104. [2016-12-13 16:39:27] ⇐ Mishie quit (chatzilla@net-a17.t22.245.173.IP): NickServ (GHOST command used by Mishie_)
  105. [2016-12-13 16:39:27] → Mishie joined (chatzilla@net-8fv.t22.245.173.IP)
  106. [2016-12-13 16:39:27] * Tin_Mother set +o Mishie
  107. [2016-12-13 16:39:45] <Gundor> I think "Lack of journalistic integrity" is insufficiently specific to be half of your definition of fake news
  108. [2016-12-13 16:42:11] <Vereornox> The absolute incompetence of journalists to check for facts instead of citing anonymous sources which seem to always support their ideas, without ever trying to observe both sides of the spectrum.  A lack of disclosure on the sides of journalists about having relationships of any kind with subjects of their articles or members of staff who have worked on or
  109. [2016-12-13 16:42:11] <Vereornox> at subjects of their articles.  
  110. [2016-12-13 16:43:16] <Gundor> That looks even more like a definition engineered to be useful as a weapon in a particular debate
  111. [2016-12-13 16:43:33] <Vereornox> Because it doesn't support your viewpoint?
  112. [2016-12-13 16:44:24] <Gundor> Because it bears no resemblance to how I would seek to usefully define the term "fake news" for use in general
  113. [2016-12-13 16:44:24] <Vereornox> how exactly am I asking for too much when I say journalists should disclose if they're friends with an individual in x company when they write an article about x company?
  114. [2016-12-13 16:44:36] <Gundor> You're misunderstanding me I think
  115. [2016-12-13 16:45:02] <Gundor> again, there should not be a dichotomy between "good news" and "fake news"
  116. [2016-12-13 16:45:17] <Gundor> IMO "fake news" is a term that should be reserved for a fairly narrow class of thing
  117. [2016-12-13 16:45:31] <Vereornox>  I think the definition of fake news used to be the definition of tabloid bullshit nobody in their right mind would believe.
  118. [2016-12-13 16:45:40] <Vereornox> (battery running low btw)
  119. [2016-12-13 16:45:52] <Gundor> ok that sounds much closer to how I would define fake news
  120. [2016-12-13 16:46:06] <Elara> Vern, you do seem to be pushing the idea that either Gamergate was about ethics in gaming journalism, OR it was purely about harassment, and that the FBI report blows the latter out of the water
  121. [2016-12-13 16:46:13] <Gundor> ^
  122. [2016-12-13 16:46:48] <Vereornox> it does very clearly say that there were no actionable leads among the 'hundreds of bomb threats' and 'murder threats/harassing calls'
  123. [2016-12-13 16:46:56] <Elara> so?
  124. [2016-12-13 16:47:08] <Elara> not actionable does not mean never happened
  125. [2016-12-13 16:47:14] <Vereornox> So is the fbi incompetent or was the narrative blown out of proportions?
  126. [2016-12-13 16:47:38] <Elara> or, is most rhetoric on the internet not something American law enforcement can do much about?
  127. [2016-12-13 16:47:45] <Gundor> What narrative doesn't get blown out of proportion? <_<
  128. [2016-12-13 16:48:30] <Vereornox> the demonization of an entire group of people based on the word of mouth of devs who claim they received bomb threats that the fbi could prove weren't real isn't blowing out of proportions?
  129. [2016-12-13 16:48:54] <Vereornox> that report is dozens of pages long, it's not about 'one incident'
  130. [2016-12-13 16:49:04] <Vereornox> it's about 'the whole campaign'
  131. [2016-12-13 16:49:32] <Vereornox> are you telling me that in the whole campaign there was nothing that American law enforcement could do about threats and harassment?
  132. [2016-12-13 16:49:38] <Elara> I could believe it
  133. [2016-12-13 16:49:48] <Vereornox> I find that preposterous.
  134. [2016-12-13 16:50:21] <Elara> it's Canada, not the US, but Markuze/Mabus sent *hundreds* of death threats over a period of years before the authorities did anything about it
  135. [2016-12-13 16:50:32] <Vereornox> I'm not saying there wasn't harassment, but there's been leaks that have proven that the anti gamer gate crowd has been doxxing people just like they had accused gg of doing
  136. [2016-12-13 16:50:49] <Elara> and in fact, Canada is generally *more* prepared to go "welp, you crossed the line there" than the US is, when it comes to free speech
  137. [2016-12-13 16:51:07] <Vereornox> yet the narrative was that one the evil gamers were the most horrible people rather than blaming both of them?
  138. [2016-12-13 16:51:12] <Vereornox> because nobody checked their facts
  139. [2016-12-13 16:51:59] <Vereornox> and now that the fbi report comes out going against all those articles, it's suddenly the law enforcement being incompetent instead of the leads actually leading nowhere
  140. [2016-12-13 16:52:30] <Elara> but you agree that there's been harassment
  141. [2016-12-13 16:52:58] <Vereornox> I say it's been on both sides, I've /always/ said it's been on both sides, even months ago when I talked about this with winged and Bel
  142. [2016-12-13 16:53:28] <Vereornox> but back then they were content on holding their ears closed and shouting lallala you're just the exception vern, you actually think it's about ethics in game journalism
  143. [2016-12-13 16:54:40] <Vereornox> what I loathe is the disgusting narrative that demonized one group of people rather than showing, based on facts they chose to ignore, that everyone involved, pro and against, was a horrible human being while using social networks
  144. [2016-12-13 16:55:47] <Vereornox> So I'm awfully happy to accept proof that lookie, the group of people that everyone hates in the media aren't actually that horrible, maybe reconsider the shit you've heard the past 2 years.
  145. [2016-12-13 16:57:01] <Elara> I never expected much of what was going on in the whole kerfluffle to be actionable, so this doesn't surprise me at all
  146. [2016-12-13 16:57:46] → Xtree joined (
  147. [2016-12-13 16:57:51] <Mishie> And the joke is, one side was lying about shit to the extent that the FBI had to get involved
  148. [2016-12-13 17:00:13] <Mishie> And I just find it amusing that such a hilariously shortsighted strategy ended up working perfectly
  149. [2016-12-13 17:00:51] — Gundor is not sure what Mishie means
  150. [2016-12-13 17:01:29] <Mishie> The fact that shit like the bomb threats were fact doesn't really matter
  151. [2016-12-13 17:01:37] <Mishie> people have made up their minds
  152. [2016-12-13 17:02:06] <Mishie> weren't factual*
  153. [2016-12-13 17:02:08] <Mishie> I'm awake
  154. [2016-12-13 17:04:20] <Gundor> Honestly I don't think I've heard of bomb threats related to 'gamer gate' before >_>
  155. [2016-12-13 17:04:30] <Gundor> maybe I heard them, they helped me make up my mind, and then I forgot about them
  156. [2016-12-13 17:04:33] <Gundor> but that seems unlikely
  157. [2016-12-13 17:05:30] <Gundor> the closest link in *my* mind-picture of 'gamer gate' to harassment is that in my conception 'gamer gate' started with a guy writing a rant about how awful his ex is
  158. [2016-12-13 17:05:40] <Elara> I don't remember hearing about bomb threats either
  159. [2016-12-13 17:06:12] <Elara> I was biased against Gamergate by the fact that Vox Day and Milo loved it, and nothing the gators have done since has improved the matter
  160. [2016-12-13 17:06:27] <Gundor> (I put quotes around 'gamer gate' because I hate the -gate form of naming things but don't have a better name for this thing)
  161. [2016-12-13 17:07:00] <Mishie> yeah that shits permastuck now
  162. [2016-12-13 17:07:01] <Mishie> rip
  163. [2016-12-13 17:26:13] <Somecrazyguy> never forget that the anti-gg people had enough pull to make a fucking episode of law and order
  164. [2016-12-13 17:28:10] <Somecrazyguy> Intimidation Game
  165. [2016-12-13 17:28:14] <Somecrazyguy> I think it's on netflix
  166. [2016-12-13 17:31:25] * dragonkid11 is now known as sleepykid11
  167. [2016-12-13 17:32:06] <Somecrazyguy> - from the episode
  168. [2016-12-13 17:32:22] <sleepykid11> I don't think those people understand what 'gate' means anymkre
  169. [2016-12-13 17:32:44] <Elara> that picture's pretty funny
  170. [2016-12-13 17:32:58] <Gundor> what does 'gate' mean?
  171. [2016-12-13 17:33:11] <Gundor> somebody had too much fun making that picture
  172. [2016-12-13 17:34:09] <sleepykid11> Well it means house gate and erm...
  173. [2016-12-13 17:34:17] <Elara> "Video game developer Raina Punjabi (Mouzam Makkar) ignores warnings from online predators as the release date of her game arrives. When a female employee is soon assaulted at a game convention, the detectives ask Punjabi to halt the game's release. When she refuses, Fin and SVU must race to protect her from technically skilled predators that want to see
  174. [2016-12-13 17:34:17] <Elara> Punjabi out of the gaming business."
  175. [2016-12-13 17:34:26] <Elara> is wiki's summary of the episode
  176. [2016-12-13 17:34:34] <sleepykid11> Graduate Applitude Test in Engineering apparently
  177. [2016-12-13 17:35:10] <Gundor> 'gate' also means "alike to watergate"
  178. [2016-12-13 17:35:30] <sleepykid11> ....Jesus fucking Christ, and my classmate is about present that stupid shit show next week?
  179. [2016-12-13 17:35:32] <Gundor> and by alike to watergate alike to the watergate breakin scandal is meant, not alike to the watergate hotel itself
  180. [2016-12-13 17:36:31] <Somecrazyguy> elara please watch it
  181. [2016-12-13 17:36:40] <Somecrazyguy> please
  182. [2016-12-13 17:37:12] <Elara> is it better than an average episode of Castle?
  183. [2016-12-13 17:37:13] <sleepykid11> I fear that watching it would kill Elara by braindeath
  184. [2016-12-13 17:37:37] <Somecrazyguy> if you can enjoy so bad it's great stuff
  185. [2016-12-13 17:37:40] <Somecrazyguy> it's pretty top tier
  186. [2016-12-13 17:37:56] <sleepykid11> Ehhhh, Castle is alright
  187. [2016-12-13 17:38:12] <Elara> heh. I'll drop it on the list, might get to it sometime this decade
  188. [2016-12-13 17:39:11] <Somecrazyguy> i'd rather watch intimidation game 24 times in a row than a season of castle
  189. [2016-12-13 17:39:37] ⇐ Mishie quit (chatzilla@net-8fv.t22.245.173.IP): NickServ (GHOST command used by Mishie_)
  190. [2016-12-13 17:39:37] → Mishie joined (chatzilla@net-2mu.t22.245.173.IP)
  191. [2016-12-13 17:39:37] * Tin_Mother set +o Mishie
  192. [2016-12-13 17:39:41] <Elara> not a fan of Nathan Fillion?
  193. [2016-12-13 17:40:45] <Mishie> [02:37]  sleepykid11 Ehhhh, Castle is alright
  194. [2016-12-13 17:40:47] <Mishie> haaaaa
  195. [2016-12-13 17:40:49] <Mishie> Early seasons were great
  196. [2016-12-13 17:40:50] <Mishie> later seasons kinda just...
  197. [2016-12-13 17:41:28] <Somecrazyguy> Just wasn't a big fan
  198. [2016-12-13 17:41:34] <Somecrazyguy> and seriously
  199. [2016-12-13 17:41:40] <Somecrazyguy> intimidation game is reefer madness tier
  200. [2016-12-13 17:41:54] <Gundor> I liked a few episodes of Castle that I saw
  201. [2016-12-13 17:42:04] <Mishie> oh there were some great ones
  202. [2016-12-13 17:42:12] → Brut joined (
  203. [2016-12-13 17:42:14] <Elara> there are some fantastic episodes
  204. [2016-12-13 17:42:30] <Elara> later series did get a little bit...over-the-top
  205. [2016-12-13 17:42:56] <Brut> Which?
  206. [2016-12-13 17:43:03] * FaustAsleep is now known as Faustus
  207. [2016-12-13 17:43:09] <Elara> Castle, Brut
  208. [2016-12-13 17:43:14] <Brut> Ah
  209. [2016-12-13 17:44:07] ⇐ EllardyAway quit ( Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
  210. [2016-12-13 17:44:18] <Faustus> I love shows that clearly push an agenda Scrags!
  211. [2016-12-13 17:44:32] <Somecrazyguy> what agenda
  212. [2016-12-13 17:44:41] <Somecrazyguy> gamergate was obviously a terrorist cell
  213. [2016-12-13 17:44:45] <Elara> go watch Stargate, Faustus
  214. [2016-12-13 17:44:48] <Somecrazyguy> just like isis but worse
  215. [2016-12-13 17:45:05] <Gundor> what's Stargate's agenda, Elara?
  216. [2016-12-13 17:45:13] <Gundor> I haven't seen enough Stargate to tell, myself
  217. [2016-12-13 17:45:28] <Faustus> Nothing like getting my arguments in a form that is incomprehensible to even the most basic logic, and populated  by strawmen.
  218. [2016-12-13 17:45:45] <Elara> US military = awesome, everybody else is ultimately untrustworthy and might in fact be an evil alien
  219. [2016-12-13 17:45:48] <Elara> approximately
  220. [2016-12-13 17:46:09] <Brut> Like an unironic Starship Troopers...
  221. [2016-12-13 17:46:27] <Elara> I mean, individual episodes aren't so bad
  222. [2016-12-13 17:47:11] <Gundor> oh like the Senator villain?
  223. [2016-12-13 17:47:24] <Gundor> Robert Kinsey, apparently
  224. [2016-12-13 17:49:05] <YewnyxWork> I wouldn't call gamergate terrorists, but  prominent gamergate people *did* actively organize targeted harassment
  225. [2016-12-13 17:49:40] <Gundor> oh dar
  226. [2016-12-13 17:49:42] <Gundor> *dear
  227. [2016-12-13 17:49:42] <Brut> I'm still laughing over the Rick Perry news
  228. [2016-12-13 17:49:48] <Elara> been done before, Yew. slymepit &c
  229. [2016-12-13 17:50:04] <Brut> Just... Jesus, America
  230. [2016-12-13 17:50:51] <Gundor>
  231. [2016-12-13 17:50:51] <_> [ Colbert SuperPac Commercial #1 - YouTube ] -
  232. [2016-12-13 17:51:16] → FosSleep joined (
  233. [2016-12-13 17:51:49] * FosSleep is now known as FossilLord
  234. [2016-12-13 17:59:21] → CallOfTheVern joined (
  235. [2016-12-13 18:01:15] <CallOfTheVern> Back
  236. [2016-12-13 18:01:22] <CallOfTheVern> Checking the IRCCloud Logs.
  237. [2016-12-13 18:01:39] <CallOfTheVern> YewnyxWork> I wouldn't call gamergate terrorists, but  prominent gamergate people *did* actively organize targeted harassment
  238. [2016-12-13 18:02:01] <YewnyxWork> hm?
  239. [2016-12-13 18:02:05] <CallOfTheVern> Yes, Yew, but the claim it was a harassment campaign to the point that the FBI had to get involved
  240. [2016-12-13 18:02:10] <CallOfTheVern> Is like saying every trump supporter is a nazi
  241. [2016-12-13 18:02:18] <CallOfTheVern> Because there are prominent people who voted trump that support that dogma
  242. [2016-12-13 18:02:36] <YewnyxWork> hm?
  243. [2016-12-13 18:02:37] <CallOfTheVern> The argument I had earlier was that I was unhappy with the fact that the entire group was demonized
  244. [2016-12-13 18:02:40] <YewnyxWork> i didn't make that claim
  245. [2016-12-13 18:02:56] <CallOfTheVern> Not you, but your point helps me make my claim :v
  246. [2016-12-13 18:03:04] <YewnyxWork> I have no time for that
  247. [2016-12-13 18:03:05] ← YewnyxWork left ( "Textual IRC Client:"
  248. [2016-12-13 18:03:13] <CallOfTheVern> rip
  249. [2016-12-13 18:03:22] <Gundor> it's a deep rabbit hole
  250. [2016-12-13 18:04:44] <Elara> that much is true
  251. [2016-12-13 18:04:57] <FossilLord> It's about ethics in video game journalism: is it ethical to harass video game journalists until they need police protection? The answer is no.
  252. [2016-12-13 18:05:11] <CallOfTheVern> How long have you been in the channel, FossilLord
  253. [2016-12-13 18:05:20] <CallOfTheVern> because if the answer is "a few minutes" go back 2 hours and read the channel.
  254. [2016-12-13 18:05:39] <FossilLord> Happy to see the logs just woke up
  255. [2016-12-13 18:07:58] <CallOfTheVern> The point is, people on both sides were shitty. if GG is a harassment campaign, then so is the anti-GG crowd. If, as the FBI has shown, there's no accountable proof that GG is a harassment campaign, especially considering evidence such as "this number you claim harassed you has been having conversations with you for months, why won't you tell us who this is?"
  256. [2016-12-13 18:08:07] <CallOfTheVern> Then it just shows that neither side is a harassment campaign, and surprise surprise
  257. [2016-12-13 18:08:09] <CallOfTheVern> Shitty people on the internet
  258. [2016-12-13 18:08:16] <CallOfTheVern> Are shitty people on the internet
  259. [2016-12-13 18:08:31] <CallOfTheVern> Regardless of what they believe.
  260. [2016-12-13 18:08:34] <Gundor> and therefore?
  261. [2016-12-13 18:08:54] <Faustus> Opinions are for losers
  262. [2016-12-13 18:09:13] <CallOfTheVern> And therefore every journalist who went ahead with the "GG is basement dwelling neckbeards that have no real say in the world and harass women" narrative
  263. [2016-12-13 18:09:19] <CallOfTheVern> Should either take a huge step back and check the facts again
  264. [2016-12-13 18:09:27] <Elara> thing is though, Vern, there's a whole bunch of people who are opposed to gamergate without being "anti-GG"
  265. [2016-12-13 18:09:30] <CallOfTheVern> Or avoid writing ridiculous shit in their next life
  266. [2016-12-13 18:09:32] → Lacks joined (
  267. [2016-12-13 18:09:32] * Tin_Mother set +h Lacks
  268. [2016-12-13 18:09:40] <Elara> that's the real issue with "both sides do it" as an explanation
  269. [2016-12-13 18:10:04] <Elara> well, one of the larger issues, anyway
  270. [2016-12-13 18:10:08] <CallOfTheVern> being opposted to GG is literally what anti-GG means.
  271. [2016-12-13 18:10:15] <Brut> No
  272. [2016-12-13 18:10:18] <Elara> nah
  273. [2016-12-13 18:11:09] <Brut> Anti-GG implies being actively against them
  274. [2016-12-13 18:11:16] <Brut> Not liking them is just not liking them
  275. [2016-12-13 18:12:14] <Elara> the generality of the internet is broadly opposed to gamergate, because most of the internet has the impression that gamergate is a harassment campaign (whether or not you think that impression is fair or accurate)
  276. [2016-12-13 18:12:46] <Elara> that doesn't make the generality of the 'net part of "anti-gamergate"
  277. [2016-12-13 18:12:52] <CallOfTheVern> And why does that generality exist?
  278. [2016-12-13 18:13:13] <Gundor> [11:05:29] <@Gundor> the closest link in *my* mind-picture of 'gamer gate' to harassment is that in my conception 'gamer gate' started with a guy writing a rant about how awful his ex is
  279. [2016-12-13 18:13:27] <Elara> because there's a wider internet out there, involving people who never heard of Anita Sarkeesian or Zoe Quinn and don't give a shit
  280. [2016-12-13 18:13:49] <Elara> they don't want to get involved in dumb internet arguments that end up with people being harassed
  281. [2016-12-13 18:13:58] <Elara> or they've got their own battles to fight
  282. [2016-12-13 18:13:59] <Elara> or whatever
  283. [2016-12-13 18:14:00] <CallOfTheVern> That's a pretty accurate summation, Gundor. Though it was more nuanced, the actual claim was that she slept with journalists who wrote articles over her text game. She became pretty irrelevant after a month or two.
  284. [2016-12-13 18:15:23] <CallOfTheVern> Elara: No, the I think the generality exists because major media outlets, such as BBC and CNN, have swallowed the information from things like Kotaku/GawkerMedia and decided it must be true
  285. [2016-12-13 18:15:28] * Faustus is now known as Faustus|Chase
  286. [2016-12-13 18:15:55] <Elara> so?
  287. [2016-12-13 18:15:58] <CallOfTheVern> Media outlets publishing lies based on the word of mouth of devs who claim they've been harassed, when the FBI report has shown that there was no campaign going on, and now people refuse to believe the FBI report.
  288. [2016-12-13 18:16:06] <CallOfTheVern> How do you not see anything wrong with that?
  289. [2016-12-13 18:16:14] <Elara> have you ever heard of the slymepit, Vern?
  290. [2016-12-13 18:17:19] <CallOfTheVern> I heard the term, but I don't think so.
  291. [2016-12-13 18:17:53] <Elara> it's a forum that kicked off in ~2012 to organise harassment of atheist and skeptic bloggers. I'm pretty sure it's still going. some of the *exact same people* got involved with Gamergate. do you think they stopped engaging in harassment in an organised way, just because they were suddenly fighting SJWs in "gaming" rather than SJWs in "atheism"?
  292. [2016-12-13 18:19:17] <Elara> there was enough organisation of harassment on 4chan that moot tried to shut it down, and some of the people responsible decamped to 8chan in protest
  293. [2016-12-13 18:19:42] <Elara> this stuff was, as best I remember it, within *weeks* of the whole thing kicking off
  294. [2016-12-13 18:19:59] <CallOfTheVern> And that makes GG a harassment campaign, a very distinct term, how? Compare it to the claim that every Trump voter must be a facist who wants to burn black people and jews. People actually believe that, but the claim is just retarded.
  295. [2016-12-13 18:20:41] <Elara> can you blame people for seeing something that started off as a harassment campaign, and still has a harassment campaign mixed in with it, and writing it off as just a harassment campaign?
  296. [2016-12-13 18:21:08] <CallOfTheVern> What started off as that? GG?
  297. [2016-12-13 18:21:10] <CallOfTheVern> It's a generalization that the media swallowed because they wanted to have a scapegoat, and refuse to back down from after being called out for shitty practises such as lack of disclaimers and shoddy sources.
  298. [2016-12-13 18:21:54] <CallOfTheVern> There's been websites who lost advertising money from advertisors pulling their ads when they ran the "gamers are dead" articles, and decided to be even worse in their accusations as if they weren't to blame for their own fuckup.
  299. [2016-12-13 18:22:01] <CallOfTheVern> how is that ethical?
  300. [2016-12-13 18:26:26] → petepat joined (petepat@net-s95.t1i.18.5.IP)
  301. [2016-12-13 18:30:00] <Somecrazyguy> it's actually about ethics in journalism
  302. [2016-12-13 18:30:04] <Somecrazyguy> gn
  304. Dez 13 22:11:19 <keyonte0>  Spend a little time on 8chan and then tell me if you still think GG is a positive thing.
  305. Dez 13 22:12:02 *   Mahasim has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
  306. Dez 13 22:12:13 <keyonte0>  The are basically on the opposite end of the horseshoe from radical "SJWs"
  307. Dez 13 22:13:40 <keyonte0>  It's NOT about ethics in journalism. It's about SJWs in journalism. They don't give a fuck about anything else.
  308. Dez 13 22:14:43 <keyonte0>  They are completely silent about any unethical thing that doesn't involve that.
  309. Dez 13 22:16:14 <Faustus|Chase> The group varies in what it believes, and taking it as a monolithic whole isn't quite accurate. Much in the same way taking some of the parts of tumblr as a cross-section of the entire anti-GG opinion is inaccurate.
  310. Dez 13 22:19:06 <keyonte0>  I visit their hubs regularly. The primary thing they do is build a hitlist of enemies to witchhunt out of the industry.
  311. Dez 13 22:20:22 <keyonte0>  And you can make the list by doing something as simple as having an opinion they don't like or associating with someone they don't like.
  312. Dez 13 22:21:56 <Fulvus2>   You're talking as if there's some kind of mafioso group bogeyman.
  313. Dez 13 22:22:11 <Fulvus2>   They're just nerds on the internet that get pissed off an riled up easily.
  314. Dez 13 22:22:15 *   Fulvus2 is now known as Fulvus
  315. Dez 13 22:23:48 <Faustus|Chase> There are plenty of movements that do that on both ends of the scale
  316. Dez 13 22:25:25 <keyonte0>  I reiterate that getting people fired is like 90% of what is discussed on their main hubs.
  317. Dez 13 22:26:15 <keyonte0>  I hate job lynch mobs regardless of what side they're on
  318. Dez 13 22:27:42 <Faustus|Chase> But as you shouldn't take that as the norm for third wave feminism, you probably shouldn't take that as the norm for GG. I'm certain there are people in GG who actually do discuss ethics in games journalism.
  319. Dez 13 22:27:50 <Fulvus>    You're being really melodramatic, and what do you mean by "main hubs"? Just 8chan?
  320. Dez 13 22:30:06 <keyonte0>  It's the "norm" for almost every western activist movement nowadays.
  321. Dez 13 22:30:34 <keyonte0>  They don't want to convert the opposition, they want to destroy it.
  322. Dez 13 22:31:01 <Faustus|Chase> So... we all agree that both sides are terrible as Vern said about 12 hours ago?
  323. Dez 13 22:33:10 <keyonte0>  Videogame journalism has been wracked with cronyism and corruption forever but nobody gave a fuck until some dyed haired woman fucked around.
  324. Dez 13 22:33:35 *   Lexicon ( has joined
  325. Dez 13 22:34:37 <Faustus|Chase> That's how issues like this work. Nobody cares until something very blatantly wrong happens.
  326. Dez 13 22:35:04 <keyonte0>  Far worse than that bullshit happened on the regular.
  327. Dez 13 22:36:50 <Faustus|Chase> But the headlines for it weren't as eye-catching.
  328. Dez 13 22:37:20 <Fulvus>    It wasn't because she was a woman, it was because websites started kneejerk banning people from talking about it and that made people flip their shit because they sniffed conspiracy.
  329. Dez 13 22:37:57 <Fulvus>    Being told you're not allowed to talk about something without consequence really incites people, more news at 11.
  330. Dez 13 22:38:06 <keyonte0>  Where was GG when Eidos got a guy fired for giving their game a bad review.
  331. Dez 13 22:39:50 *   Brut ( has joined
  332. Dez 13 22:40:30 <keyonte0>  They only cared because of Zoe's political affiliation. They are mysteriously absent whenever there isn't a feminist or something to witch hunt.
  333. Dez 13 22:41:45 <keyonte0>  Nobody is on Rockstar's ass for paying PIs to stalk modders.
  334. Dez 13 22:43:02 <keyonte0>  The various game Youtubers that are basically being payed to shill games without disclosure? Who cares!
  335. Dez 13 22:43:34 <Lacks|away>    There are people who care about those things, and make videos on it, or try to raise awareness.  Inside GG and out.
  336. Dez 13 22:43:44 <Faustus|Chase> But Key
  337. Dez 13 22:44:02 <Faustus|Chase> It's actually about ethics in games /journalism/
  338. Dez 13 22:44:19 <Lacks|away>    But nobody pays as much attention to them, the same way they've been ignoring issues in game journalism for decades.  It goes both ways, in the end.  People pay more attention when there's a woman involved, both in terms of the media and in terms of the audience.
  339. Dez 13 22:44:24 <Faustus|Chase> Youtube isn't journalism
  340. Dez 13 22:44:25 <Lacks|away>    So that sort of stuff gets a lot of coverage.
  341. Dez 13 22:44:49 <Lacks|away>    Whether or not it's a majority of what's going on, it certainly is the majority of what people pay attention to.
  342. Dez 13 22:44:56 <keyonte0>  They went after one of Bioware's writers because of how she writes games. That isn't technically journalism.
  343. Dez 13 22:45:29 *   Camtist is now known as Camtist|GM
  344. Dez 13 22:45:46 <Lacks|away>    Well, I can't think of much more relevant to games than game writing.
  345. Dez 13 22:47:09 *   Lacks|away is now known as Lacks
  346. Dez 13 22:47:09 <keyonte0>  The worst part is that instead of condemning the more insane radicals, they just deny their existence or claim they are all false flags or something.
  347. Dez 13 22:47:35 *   Faustus|Chase is now known as Faustus
  348. Dez 13 22:47:40 <Lacks> That happens with all leaderless groups.  Nothing new or special.
  349. Dez 13 22:47:43 <keyonte0>  They make no effort to rein in the crazies but refuse to take responsibility.
  350. Dez 13 22:47:57 <Lacks> Nobody can control who is or isn't part of GG, so they just do their own thing and ignore the rest.
  351. Dez 13 22:48:15 <Fulvus>    ^
  352. Dez 13 22:48:18 <Lacks> How are they going to rein them in?  There's no barrier to entry.  No leaders.  No manifesto.  No rules or regulations.
  353. Dez 13 22:48:33 <Fulvus>    Only sentence I've read so far where saying "nobody" and just referring to "they" was warranted.
  354. Dez 13 22:48:39 <Lacks> It's just a bunch of people angry on the internet.
  355. Dez 13 22:49:27 <Faustus>   It's remarkably close to the Feminist community, and the Anti-Feminist community, and the Atheist community.
  356. Dez 13 22:49:45 <Faustus>   None are actually comprehensive groups, just movements
  357. Dez 13 22:49:51 <Lacks> Same as all leaderless groups, like I said.  There may be prominent members, but there's nobody in charge.
  358. Dez 13 22:54:53 <Peng_> Lacks: People control who they themselves associate with. Non-trash people could quit "GG" and start an okay, and perhaps actually organized, group.
  359. Dez 13 22:55:24 <Peng_> Serious question. If you care about ethics in video game journalism, how does associating with GG benefit you or your cause?
  360. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 13 22:55:43 2016
  362. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 13 22:55:43 2016
  364. Dez 13 22:55:55 <Lacks> Nobody ever does that.  Once a group has an established name, they almost always stick together, regardless of whether or not extremist assholes also associate themselves with the name.
  365. Dez 13 22:56:01 <Faustus>   People control who they themselves associate with. Non-trash people could quit "[insert any group here]" and start an okay, and perhaps actually organized, group.
  366. Dez 13 22:56:13 <Faustus>   Now we have no groups
  367. Dez 13 22:56:23 <Faustus>   Because there are far too many splinter cells
  368. Dez 13 22:56:45 <JoulesVern>    Or the stigma is already there
  369. Dez 13 22:56:47 <Peng_> Faustus: Why do you think there are 500 socialist organizations for every 100 commies? :)
  370. Dez 13 22:56:57 <JoulesVern>    And the new group is already held in contempt due to holding the same beliefs that the extremist claim to hold
  371. Dez 13 22:57:06 <Lacks> Part of the reason is because people can associate them with the name, whether they themselves do or not.  If you want to talk about ethics in videogame journalism these days, you get painted with the GG brush, whether you want to be or not.  So why not involve yourself in the group, get the support and exposure that comes with it?
  372. Dez 13 22:57:09 <Faustus>   And why do you think Communism is a joke?
  373. Dez 13 22:57:14 <Peng_> :P
  374. Dez 13 22:58:03 <Lacks> Good example, the socialism/communism thing.  Anyone who calls themself a socialist can be tarred with the communist brush by their enemies, gaining all the disadvantages incurred by that regardless of what their actual beliefs are.
  375. Dez 13 23:00:21 <JoulesVern>    I repeat what I love to say, because it remains true. Convincing other people to join your cause isn't achieved by demonizing them and trying to make it look like you're on the right side of history.
  376. Dez 13 23:00:36 <JoulesVern>    i.e. that picture that Rhet linked again a bit ago
  377. Dez 13 23:01:09 <JoulesVern>    Which screamed "fuck you white assholes, if you're not already part of our group we don't want you", not "join our cause because we're good people".
  378. Dez 13 23:04:38 <JoulesVern>    And even then, not just with socialism. You're absolutely right, Lacks. Let's get the other great divide. Let's say I claim that feminists are actually genocidal facists who want to exterminate half the world. Sounds ridiculous, right? Why don't the normal, not-violent feminists remove themselves from the label 'feminist' because it's obviously full of insane people? They make no effort to rein in the crazies and refuse to take
  379. Dez 13 23:04:38 <JoulesVern>    responsibility!
  380. Dez 13 23:05:29 <Lacks> Part of the problem with GG is that they have a point.  Gaming journalism is bad, for all sorts of reasons.  So when they talk about that, they're speaking the truth.  You can't really get rid of any movement that's actually *right*, no matter what some of their members do.  Because they can just say, "oh, ignore those assholes, they don't represen
  381. Dez 13 23:05:29 <Lacks> t us ,and they're probably false-flags anyway", and anybody that cares about the core issue will accept that.
  382. Dez 13 23:05:33 <Lacks> So there will always be support.
  383. Dez 13 23:05:48 <JoulesVern>    Every sides has their points
  384. Dez 13 23:05:51 <JoulesVern>    Every sides has their assholes.
  385. Dez 13 23:06:49 <Lacks> I mean, look at womans' suffrage.  There were women in that group committing literal acts of terrorism.  Fire-bombing stores, gang-beating people, arson, you name it.  All in the name of getting women the vote.  And since the group had a genuine, legitimate point, all the terrorism only served to get the group more attention, and people were forced
  386. Dez 13 23:06:49 <Lacks>  to say 'yeah, you kinda have a point' once they were aware of it.
  387. Dez 13 23:07:04 <JoulesVern>    Going to 4chan or 8chan to make yourself an image of a group is by far one of the worst ways to do it. Those websites are shitpostings centrals because the only way to post there is to shitpost. There's no person, ever to go into an 8chan thread for the sake of a normal discussion and come out actually having one.
  388. Dez 13 23:07:59 <Lacks> Honestly, I'm not that familiar with 4/8chan these days.  I used to visit 4chan regularly, but I haven't been back for years.
  389. Dez 13 23:08:45 <JoulesVern>    It didn't really change much. The owner is now Japanese and people who look for child porn on the /b/ board have since left for greener pastures.
  390. Dez 13 23:09:15 <JoulesVern>    Usually I'm on /v/ or /co/ and the former is just a contrarian shithole in which you occasionally have a legitimate discussion about your favorite games you feel nostalgic about
  391. Dez 13 23:09:29 <JoulesVern>    And the latter is waifu posting shitheads in various comic and cartoon threads
  392. Dez 13 23:13:48 <Lacks> Well, to be fair, when I say 'for years' I mean 7-8 years, at this point.
  393. Dez 13 23:13:56 <Lacks> Haven't been on the site since some time in my 20's.
  394. Dez 13 23:14:30 <Lacks> I remember that I left... I think a year or two after /tg/ got created, when all the artists and writers more or less got forced off.
  395. Dez 13 23:15:22 <ThalAI>    There is no good reason to be on a chan
  396. Dez 13 23:16:01 <Faustus>   Character art threads on /tg/
  397. Dez 13 23:16:25 <Faustus>   Quests (Though not a lot after being relegated to a board)
  398. Dez 13 23:16:34 <ThalAI>    Did you here what I just said?
  399. Dez 13 23:16:41 <ThalAI>    :P
  400. Dez 13 23:16:44 <ThalAI>    NO GOOD REASON
  401. Dez 13 23:17:12 <Faustus>   Member the Fine Bros?
  402. Dez 13 23:17:56 <Brut>  Lacks, you listening to anything in Canadian politics lately?
  403. Dez 13 23:18:23 <keyonte0>  There's actually a lot of people who were formally allied with GG but distanced themselves because of how crazy a lot of people got.
  404. Dez 13 23:18:35 <keyonte0>  formerly*
  405. Dez 13 23:19:03 <Lacks> I don't generally keep up, Brut, but I binge once in a while, when something gets brought to my attention.
  406. Dez 13 23:19:10 <keyonte0>  GG tends to consider those people no better than their enemies.
  407. Dez 13 23:19:42 <keyonte0>  There's a very "with us or against us" mindset.
  408. Dez 13 23:19:43 <Brut>  You hear the talk of O'Leary wanting to go for PC leadership?
  409. Dez 13 23:20:20 <Brut>  I'm tired of television personalities in politics. I hope Chong gets it
  410. Dez 13 23:20:41 <keyonte0>  And Honestly I believe a lot of the journalist that say they were harassed simply because literally anyone who is controversial on the internet gets harassed regardless of their beliefs.
  411. Dez 13 23:21:16 <Brut>  Yeah, I'm with you on that
  412. Dez 13 23:21:33 <Brut>  You write a comment on reddit people don't like and it's real easy to get some fucked up messages
  413. Dez 13 23:21:40 <keyonte0>  You can get death threats for criticizing anything.
  414. Dez 13 23:21:47 <Fulvus>    I'm pretty sure I like using 4chan because I just really hate humans.
  415. Dez 13 23:22:15 <ThalAI>    #KillAllHumans
  416. Dez 13 23:22:19 <Fulvus>    ^
  417. Dez 13 23:22:22 <Fulvus>    Good video game.
  418. Dez 13 23:22:24 <Brut>  Nah man, Destroy all Humans
RAW Paste Data
We use cookies for various purposes including analytics. By continuing to use Pastebin, you agree to our use of cookies as described in the Cookies Policy. OK, I Understand