Andyy07/14/2019
I don't want to be excluded from the staff team. I want to be in the know and I want to be available to help when needed. and to do that I need to be involved. which I am.
I'm just not interested in getting on to do apps or meet activity quotas when I have nothing to do. Apps I find pointless as nothing I have to say is adding anything that the rest of the team doesn't already know and is just a waste of my time. I don't pretend to be up to date with apps but If i see an app that I have something to add to then I'll add it.

I'm here to help the staff team and the community/server as a whole. If something needs doing I'm often capable of doing it if not the most or only person who is. and I'm happy to get on and do whatever needs doing. I'm happy to be available to aid staff with information or training on discord or in game if they need it. I'm happy to get on when a member asks me to check something or wants a build pasting in or whatever else I can do to help them.
The only things I don't do that I probably should as an admin is get on more and do apps.
If you or the team thinks I'm not doing enough to justify my existence on the team then demote me. I don't want anyone to be kept on the team if they are a drain on it or not contributing sufficiently including myself.
My suggestion to resolve that was to create a sort of consultant rank that is not directly a staff rank but has access to all staff channels and perks so I can continue to help in any way I'm needed but without the expectation that I meet admin activity quotas or keep up with things like apps
rtcabooservb07/14/2019
A consultant rank that is an admin without responsibility is not something that is going to be added. If you want to consult people with knowledge and experience, you are more than welcome to. But I'm not going to give out a special treatment position just so staff responsibilities can be forgone.
I'm happy to continue working with backend stuff and server content creation / feature adjustment with you.
Assuming it's something you want to do and put in the effort for.
But other than that, a new staff rank just to be staff without staff duties is not going to happen.
Andyy07/14/2019
Well then its up to you if I do enough to deserve the admin rank. I've listed everything I do and don't do.
I'm not prepared to step down to creator or whatever the helper rank is. I almost never do back end stuff with you anymore and if I was that rank I'd never be consulted again. that would be the same as stepping down entirely
If you're set that what I don't do disqualifies me from admin then let me know. If I must do something to maintain my ability to help the server then I'll make an effort to do it
rtcabooservb07/14/2019
What you do or don't do shouldn't absolve you of other responsibilities that the position should cover. The double standards is tiring. I'm tired of the back-and-forth arguing that staff are shitty when the same can be said the other way around. The only way to fix staff is to drop all special treatment and favoritism and go back to the guidelines written up years ago for expectations in people of certain positions. The active participating and playing community is what should make up the staff team. Staff should be involved with the community because it's the community that should want to see itself flourish, maintained, and constantly improve. Holding positions for power and waiting until requested to do something to get on is shitty. It should be about taking the initiative and leading the community.

I don't know if you even keep up with the changelog with your inactivity, but creator is not helper. Just because it replaced the helper rank doesn't mean it's filling the position of helper. It's by full intent to be a developer type rank for in-game and out-of-game content creation. Misc stuff building for the community like maps and events, or even backend config changes.

> I almost never do back end stuff with you anymore
That is on you. If you look at the changelog, I've implemented improvements, new features, and fixes for just about every complaint you've had. Everything else that needed testing and feedback, you never got around to it or never took a look at it. Even the mmo configs, those require updated string entries but you still haven't even looked at it after saying you'd take a look. If you want to help with backend stuff, I can't be the only one putting my best foot forward and giving any effort.
> if I was that rank I'd never be consulted again
I can't change how you think the position is or how you perceive it will be. It's a give and take relationship position. I can't be going around dragging you kicking until something gets done either. It's a position to facilitate a need for people to help create content for the community and have a direct channel of discussion with me for how we can improve the server or community features.

> If I must do something to maintain my ability to help the server then I'll make an effort to do it
This has been said over and over again but we always end up in the same position with very little improvement. I'm more than happy to work with you on improving the server, but special treatment so you can remain admin without the commitment to the community isn't something I want to continue. As you said yourself, you have no interest in general admin (staff) duties or interest in playing normally with the community -- and that it won't change. So the only thing I can offer you is the actual dev position for doing server related tasks instead, but if you don't want it, then I don't really know what to say. You can't have it both ways without being hypocritical.
Andyy07/15/2019
You decided that reinstating the old guidelines means I have to have been meeting them up to now and removed me? I assumed you meant you'd lay out the guidelines and everyone would neen to meet then. Not just demote me before I have a chance to meet them. And how can you demote only me?

> I don't know if you even keep
up with the changelog with your inactivity

I keep up with the change log I just don't do much about it unless I see something I need to do that isn't a massive commitment
> If you look at the changelog, I've implemented improvements, new features, and fixes for just about every complaint you've had

yes and this is me being proactive and alerting you of those complaints but we don't work on fixing them together. Nothing other than the complaint involves me and if I'm not staff I have no way to find out that these issues exist to complain about them in the first place.
> Even the mmo configs, those require updated string entries but you still haven't even looked at it after saying you'd take a look

Please show me where I said I'd take a look. I don't recall ever having anything to do with mmo configs
> I can't change how you think the position is or how you perceive it will be

Its not about how I perceive the rank. If I'm not around I'd never be consulted. and If I'm not staff I'm not around. I don't play minecraft, I have no other reasons to get on and be involved beyond my duty as staff. take that away and I'm as good as gone. you'll never contact me for help just as you didn't last time I left.
> This has been said over and over again but we always end up in the same position with very little improvement.

Never have I been told that I won't keep my rank if I don't do apps or be more active. Its been mentioned that my activity is bad. but NEVER have I promised to improve until now because I had no intention of improving and I'm not a lier.
Demoting me for offering to help and saying I'll improve if that's what you want seems weird. But sure get rid of the people that do things. Keep the rest
> but special treatment so you can remain admin without the commitment to the community isn't something I want to continue

nor is it something you'd been doing. I get on and do the work I need to do. apps don't get done but beyond that nothing that is required of me as an admin or a staff member gets neglected.
The only stuff I put off is the extra stuff you ask me to do and its only put off until I get the time and energy to work on it.
I gave you a suggestion, It was not a demand.
If you want me to be more active in general, I'll be more active. if you want me to do apps, I'll make an effort to do apps.
to this point you nor the rest of the team have made any kind of demands of me. other than the odd comment on my activity and app completion. this is not reason for me to change my activity or doing apps. It was never raised as an actual issue

I'm not active because I see no reason to be. I have all the contact with the community that I feel I need with the activity that I have and my constant activity on discord. anything more is just needless socialising that I can do here. but if you want me to be more active then I can be online more, its not like I'm never available i just see no benefit to getting online. If the benefit is that i get to keep my ability to help then I'll do it
rtcabooservb07/15/2019
> You decided that reinstating the old guidelines means I have to have been meeting them up to now and removed me? I assumed you meant you'd lay out the guidelines and everyone would neen to meet then. Not just demote me before I have a chance to meet them. And how can you demote only me?

"I'm not going to do all these things or be staff anymore, demote me if you think I should because this is not going to change."
https://discordapp.com/channels/@me/119102811421147138/600013894530105358

"Why did you demote me?"
https://discordapp.com/channels/@me/119102811421147138/600047750595477526

https://discordapp.com/channels/@me/119102811421147138/557891237957599243
https://discordapp.com/channels/@me/119102811421147138/557907985159028736
https://discordapp.com/channels/@me/119102811421147138/535108003691757579
https://discordapp.com/channels/@me/119102811421147138/471877922639314944
https://discordapp.com/channels/@me/119102811421147138/471857796929945600
https://discordapp.com/channels/@me/119102811421147138/470386715601928234


> And how can you demote only me?

You aren't the only one demoted. Jura stepped down and I spoke to Angel about her activity & future as Admin. Your conversation and the resignation of Jura has sparked me to clean up the perceived bad in the team, as Admins are the first line of defense in having an active, engaged, happy community / staff team.
> yes and this is me being proactive and alerting you of those complaints but we don't work on fixing them together. Nothing other than the complaint involves me and if I'm not staff I have no way to find out that these issues exist to complain about them in the first place.

If you think nothing other than the complaint involves you and that your involvement ends after forwarding the complaint to me, that shows a sorely lacking initiative and drive to step forward to help resolve the complaint. Teamwork is about communicating and figuring out solutions that could work together, not sitting back and waiting for guidance. Waiting to be told what to do and never followinging through on it. If being an equal leader for the community and server is too much work and you can't provide forward moving leadership for the entire team & community, then you shouldn't hold the position hostage.

> Please show me where I said I'd take a look. I don't recall ever having anything to do with mmo configs

Let's not conveniently forget the darkzone foundation runs entirely off the mmo configs.
https://discordapp.com/channels/@me/119102811421147138/595750331036598290
> Its not about how I perceive the rank. If I'm not around I'd never be consulted. and If I'm not staff I'm not around. I don't play minecraft, I have no other reasons to get on and be involved beyond my duty as staff. take that away and I'm as good as gone. you'll never contact me for help just as you didn't last time I left.

You say that but you aren't around now. What a weird juxtaposition.

Last time you left, you weren't part of any dev position or wanting to continue backend work to contribute back to the community. This is what the creator rank is and is something I'm offerring to you if you want it. Not everyone can get the creator rank as it's exclusively for those who have had a longstanding history of supporting the server and can be trusted with the power. It's power to create content without the staff responsibility - exactly what you are describing you want to do.

If you don't have the fortitude to get on and work on features, then I can't help you. You have to find your own reasons to play and push yourself to work on things you want to work on without being dragged along the floor. It's on you to stick your hand out and put in the effort to communicate to work on things. #feedback exists as a communication channel for the entire community to discuss ideas and features, so does #polls and so does messaging me directly. The community also has the capability to ping creators to discuss things for improvement.
> Never have I been told that I won't keep my rank if I don't do apps or be more active. Its been mentioned that my activity is bad. but NEVER have I promised to improve until now because I had no intention of improving and I'm not a lier.
> Demoting me for offering to help and saying I'll improve if that's what you want seems weird. But sure get rid of the people that do things. Keep the rest

We have had this type of conversation a million times and very little has actually changed to improved. The lack of effort put forward bleeds through and shows. If you think others don't do anything at all, well, I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps they don't do some of the harder work that is more involved behind the scenes, but very little sustaining effort is actually done by you too after doing the bare minimum. It's about taking whatever help I can get so my burden is lessened overall, since I still do the bulk majority of all backend work primarily myself.

Outside of initial implementations, has any of the features you've worked on been continuously improved on? What about keeping up with community engagement of those features so they don't die off? DarkZone has been lacking bare essentials that the original one had, which has entirely been down to putting in the effort to actually iterate on it. Everything has been ready waiting for the effort to actually step forward to accomplish it. Many things you've worked on also end up just being reverted because the community ends up not liking it -- but you wouldn't know if you don't engage with the active community yourself or play to see how fun it is. I believe the biggest takeaway for staff is actually being active and involved with the community because it's the community that should make up the staff team. Everything else should follow closely behind.
> nor is it something you'd been doing. I get on and do the work I need to do. apps don't get done but beyond that nothing that is required of me as an admin or a staff member gets neglected.

If we asked around, I doubt everyone would share that same sentiment.

> The only stuff I put off is the extra stuff you ask me to do and its only put off until I get the time and energy to work on it.

If you can't work on that extra stuff, you should not put yourself out there volunteering for it. Saying you'll do something and never following through with it is worse than volunteering in the first place. It's the same thing that has happened with other Admins and shows to me very little care is given after generating good will with me.

> If you want me to be more active in general, I'll be more active. if you want me to do apps, I'll make an effort to do apps. to this point you nor the rest of the team have made any kind of demands of me. other than the odd comment on my activity and app completion. this is not reason for me to change my activity or doing apps. It was never raised as an actual issue

It was raised as an issue numerous times by me to you, others to you, and others to me.

> I'm not active because I see no reason to be. I have all the contact with the community that I feel I need with the activity that I have and my constant activity on discord. anything more is just needless socialising that I can do here. but if you want me to be more active then I can be online more, its not like I'm never available i just see no benefit to getting online. If the benefit is that i get to keep my ability to help then I'll do it

You aren't losing your benefit to help. If you want to help, you can still continue to help. However it's on you to show the effort to help and strive to try.
Andyy07/15/2019
>Let's not conveniently forget the darkzone foundation runs entirely off the mmo configs.

oh mmoitems. thought you meant mcmmo for some reason. and yes fine I said I'd work on them and I planed to. Given its not in any way important that it happens right away and its only been a few days. I was waiting for fabsii to be back so we could work on it together as we had before.

>Last time you left, you weren't part of any dev position or wanting to continue backend work to contribute back to the community.

last time I left I was stepping down as staff due to real life but I still had time to help with anything else that needed doing and I was still around on the server but not once did you or anyone talk to me. its impossible to be involved with you have no contact. I took the hint.

>Not everyone can get the creator rank as it's exclusively for those who have had a longstanding history of supporting the server and can be trusted with the power.

and yet yetkinler got it despite a lack of longstanding history of supporting and a fairly long standing history or trolling and working to better ellie's agenda. Hard to believe not anyone can get it when he got it. not that it matters. it has no real power.

>We have had this type of conversation a million times and very little has actually changed to improved. The lack of effort put forward bleeds through and shows. If you think others don't do anything at all, well, I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps they don't do some of the harder work that is more involved behind the scenes, but very little sustaining effort is actually done by you too after doing the bare minimum.
If you believe we've ever had a discussion where we discussed my activity or work in any form that indicated the effort i put in was not enough then we have been having 2 different conversations. It has been mentioned but never put forward as an issue that needed fixing at threat of demotion. In previous conversations you were fine with it as long as I offered enough else to benefit the server. If you believe removing me means losing nothing then I guess you've not been looking at what I do.

I don't think that others don't do anything at all. but at the very most they do the minimum that I do. Its rare that anything of any significance happens in the staff team without me being involved. If you haven't seen that then you should be more involved with the staff team yourself as you've clearly missed a lot.
> Outside of initial implementations, has any of the features you've worked on been continuously improved on? What about keeping up with community engagement of those features so they don't die off? DarkZone has been lacking bare essentials that the original one had, which has entirely been down to putting in the effort to actually iterate on it.

The Darkzone came to a standstill when other things became more important on the server. The new version of the darkzone was never intended to have all the features of the first. Bosses were an entirely rushed and poorly developed feature last time and  I have no intention of adding them back without making them worth while. which required plugins. and since we were waiting to update to 1.14 forever how could I work on it?
The darkzone is a passion project when I have time. I've done everything I can to get the community involved in its development but very few want to help. So its all on me, which is fine. but I get nothing but shit when I do stuff alone.
I can't win. I do stuff alone the server hates me. I do stuff slowly to get help, you hate me.
> You aren't losing your benefit to help. If you want to help, you can still continue to help. However it's on you to show the effort to help and strive to try.

I don't mean to help you. I mean to help the community and the server. without staff powers I'm entirely powerless to help anyone.
I can't work on the darkzone without the test server. I can't help people ingame without admin powers. I can't help staff without access to them.
rtcabooservb07/15/2019
> last time I left I was stepping down as staff due to real life but I still had time to help with anything else that needed doing and I was still around on the server but not once did you or anyone talk to me. its impossible to be involved with you have no contact. I took the hint.

You're demanding to be involved without telling anyone you want to be involved or reaching out yourself to get involved. By that flawless logic, I'm sure everyone is in the wrong but yourself.

> and yet yetkinler got it despite a lack of longstanding history of supporting and a fairly long standing history or trolling and working to better ellie's agenda. Hard to believe not anyone can get it when he got it. not that it matters. it has no real power.

Yetkinler "got it" because he was the only person stepping forward to work on enhancements and new things for the community in the arena front. He wanted to assist before we had any type of assistant position. To help facilitate this, the position was created to aid him in his limited (focused) agenda and has formed into what it shall exist as and become into. Whether or not Yetkinler lives up to the standards of a creator and the extra benefits given to it over time depends entirely on his continued support, effort, and trust. If he is done assisting and won't be doing any future work, then he won't be held in the position for eternity. However Yetkinler doesn't dictate what the position is and what powers are given to it, nor is this about him.
> If you believe we've ever had a discussion where we discussed my activity or work in any form that indicated the effort i put in was not enough then we have been having 2 different conversations. It has been mentioned but never put forward as an issue that needed fixing at threat of demotion. In previous conversations you were fine with it as long as I offered enough else to benefit the server. If you believe removing me means losing nothing then I guess you've not been looking at what I do.

If you are to be given double standards and exceptions as staff, then the extra work and effort you put forward would have to be sustainable and substantial enough to warrant letting you off the hook. This has not always been the case and putting in a little bit of effort every couple of months does not justify the special treatment.

I was never fine with it, as all staff should be equal. I've brought it up numerous times to you in hopes to bring it to light for improvement, but only the lack of attention and little care was returned. Of course I realize there is something to be lost, but if you are not putting in any active effort or work, very little actually changes if you've already been absent and checked out. This should not be something blindsiding you out of the blue and as you've said yourself, "demote me as that won't change".
> The Darkzone came to a standstill when other things became more important on the server. The new version of the darkzone was never intended to have all the features of the first. Bosses were an entirely rushed and poorly developed feature last time and  I have no intention of adding them back without making them worth while. which required plugins. and since we were waiting to update to 1.14 forever how could I work on it?

The DarkZone is and has always been independent from the server features. You can't skirt the line and blame 1.14 when all darkzone features have been present on the server for the longest time. Nothing broke with 1.14 and nothing broke when we were on 1.13. You could have always concepted and tested on the main or test server to play around with custom mobs and bosses or other things, but didn't. Even migrating to 1.14, the configs for those features did not change -- only got more intuitive. Using your own words against you, you did not even want to update to 1.14 because it's "stupid" to update and break things, that we should stay on one version for stability and longterm support instead of chasing newer versions of the game.

> The darkzone is a passion project when I have time. I've done everything I can to get the community involved in its development but very few want to help. So its all on me, which is fine. but I get nothing but shit when I do stuff alone.
>I can't win. I do stuff alone the server hates me. I do stuff slowly to get help, you hate me.

If you don't put yourself out there and ask for help from the staff or community, no one's going to come to your aid. A passion project that isn't being actively improved weekly or at the very least monthly is nothing more than a dead feature for players to slowly lose interest in. It's on you to keep up and iterate on it. Otherwise it falls into being something I have to take over myself to improve because no one else cares to give it attention.
> I don't mean to help you. I mean to help the community and the server. without staff powers I'm entirely powerless to help anyone. I can't work on the darkzone without the test server. I can't help people ingame without admin powers. I can't help staff without access to them.

"I have no interest in general admin duties "
"I'm here to do what I can to help the server I'm not here to be staff anymore."
"I've always been here to help the server and to work with you on improvements and changes."

Helping the server is helping me. Helping the community is doing your responsibilities as staff and participating / involving yourself in the community. Creator is an ever-evoling position that will be given permissions as-needed in the scope creators need to have access to work under. It's not going to be given literally every command as a pseudo admin, but given access when it is found lacking in an area and needs something for the on-going contributing work. If creator needs access to the test server for on-going testing, then it will be provided on request. However it's not something going to be given out just to have access to it if it's never actually used to work on things.

You can't have it both ways where you don't want to do anything but have the power to do anything whenever you want.
Andyy07/15/2019
> This should not be something blindsiding you out of the blue and as you've said yourself, "demote me as that won't change".

I never said demote me as it won't change.
I said demote me if I'm not doing enough and I have no interest in doing apps or getting online without something to do. But i do have an interesting in helping the server and being staff. If that means I have to get on more then I deserve a chance to make an effort.

> If you don't put yourself out there and ask for help from the staff or community, no one's going to come to your aid.

I created the darkzone development channel for exactly that and not a single person offered to help. I cannot make all of the decisions on my own because I get grilled and bullied by the rest of the team for taking control of everything. And I get no help. I cannot win.
> Helping the community is doing your responsibilities as staff and participating / involving yourself in the community.

I do the bulk of my responsibilities. I only don't do the ones you've previously been okay with me not doing.
I participate and involve myself with the community
rtcabooservb07/15/2019
> I never said demote me as it won't change.

https://discordapp.com/channels/@me/119102811421147138/600013894530105358

See other links in above reply too...

> I created the darkzone development channel for exactly that and not a single person offered to help.

No one should be expected to come forward to your aid. You have to be the one to make the first step and reach out to others asking for assistance if needed or requested. You can't demand others to help you and sit as a king on top of the throne expecting it to come. It's the job of Admins to take the initiative and provide leadership.

> I participate and involve myself with the community

Again, if we asked around, I'm sure others wouldn't share that same sentiment. Having little to no activity online is not involving yourself with the community. You have to be present and playing the game to know what goes on, socializing with people who are around.
Andyy07/15/2019
> See other links in above reply too...

my interest won't change. I'll never care about apps, as I have nothing to add to them. but I can do them if thats what you require of me.
> No one should be expected to come forward to your aid. You have to be the one to make the first step and reach out to others asking for assistance if needed or requested.

I don't expect anyone to come forward. I simply made it simple to be involved if anyone wanted to be. nobody did. I did take the first step and reach out to others to ask for assistance. Thats what the channel was. I announced that I wanted help and allowed anyone to help. nobody offered.

Anything that I work on alone I get shit for doing whatever I want and not listening to others. Nobody ever tells me what they want, I have to ascertain that myself. and I make decisions based on what I think everyone wants.
I'm sick of trying to work on things alone and getting shit for it. So I've done what everyone wants me to do and only work on things that everyone agrees on, which means almost nothing gets done.
> Again, if we asked around, I'm sure others wouldn't share that same sentiment. Having little to no activity online is not involving yourself with the community. You have to be present and playing the game to know what goes on, socializing with people who are around.

then ask around. don't make assumptions.

I'm always around on discord, I talk to staff I keep up with members that are active. I'm consulted on lots and I'm online enough to keep up with whats going on.
rtcabooservb07/15/2019
> yes fine I said I'd work on them and I planed to. Given its not in any way important that it happens right away and its only been a few days. I was waiting for fabsii to be back so we could work on it together as we had before.

It's been two weeks for something that should only take 15 minutes maximum to update. I wasn't asking you to go through and test all the new features and settings implemented, only to correct configs that required new string inputs and changes to function. When you compare what little you are contributing back with the monstrous amount of changes, updates, and fixes I've been pushing in changelog leading up to and after 1.14, sure seems one-sided in the amount of effort and attention given.

> my interest won't change. I'll never care about apps, as I have nothing to add to them. but I can do them if thats what you require of me.

It's more than just apps. And as I've mentioned, if you didn't want the staff responsibility or to participate with the community every day, the creator rank is exactly what you are looking for doing just "dev" work. Unless you aren't true to your own words, I'm just taking exactly what you have said.

> I did take the first step and reach out to others to ask for assistance. Thats what the channel was. I announced that I wanted help and allowed anyone to help. nobody offered.

Which you did have people commenting. If you don't follow through with suggestions and work on play-testing changes, new features, custom mobs, etc. why should people continue to give feedback? You can't make a channel and say "give me initial feedback", take none of it, and never iterate on the darkzone with more updates. People will only have engagement if attention is being given back to them and that feature. It's about having a continuous open channel with back and forth discussion to get help. If something new needs help, you ask again for assistance, not sit waiting and expecting it.
> I'm sick of trying to work on things alone and getting shit for it. So I've done what everyone wants me to do and only work on things that everyone agrees on, which means almost nothing gets done.

That excuse is a fallacy. You are suppose to mix both to find a middle ground. Taking the initiate to get stuff done and listening / speaking to others to work together. True leadership.. Not do everything yourself how you think things should be which ends up with with no one liking the feature or it being not fun, or solely waiting on others to do all the work until there is agreement so nothing gets accomplished. You see assistance and experiment until there is a happy middleground based around logic.

> then ask around. don't make assumptions.
> I'm always around on discord, I talk to staff I keep up with members that are active. I'm consulted on lots and I'm online enough to keep up with whats going on.

I have asked around. I have also looked at analytics for activity. Why don't you ask around and see how people feel in regards to your activity, your work ethic, and engagement with the community? And I don't mean just speaking to people you are close with like Jura or Fabsii, truly ask around. It's not an isolated incident and has been brought up to me by many staff (mods/admins) and many members (including ellie and owen - even if they do bring their own set of trouble, some concerns are valid).
Andyy07/15/2019
> When you compare what little you are contributing back with the monstrous amount of changes, updates, and fixes I've been pushing in changelog leading up to and after 1.14, sure seems one-sided in the amount of effort and attention given.

I have very little to do compared to you. I've never been involved with updates to new versions and I don't have anything on that scale that I could do.

> if you didn't want the staff responsibility or to participate with the community every day, the creator rank is exactly what you are looking for

Its not that I don't want the responsibility I like getting on and being involved with the community. I like helping everyone out and being around to assist. I just don't see any point in me doing things like apps where I offer no new insight.

> Which you did have people commenting. If you don't follow through with suggestions and work on play-testing changes, new features, custom mobs, etc. why should people continue to give feedback?

I didn't have anyone commenting. the channel only ever had me and fabsii discussing things. you messaged in there maybe once and maybe 1 other person once and neither of them were something I could act on.
I've done a lot to find a middle ground. I don't want to work on things alone. For everything I do i see advise and assistance from other staff members or community members that are interested. but I get nothing back. If other people aren't willing to put in any effort I can only work alone, I've held tons of staff meetings where I've tried to discuss a new feature of idea with the staff team to gather their thoughts on it so I can make it work how we all want and every time they either reject it entirely or refuse to discuss it citing their lack of interest or lack of ideas. Leaving it with me. the mall was the same, nobody wanted to discuss and I tried for months to get everyone to help me. so in the end i did what we agreed on and everyone hated it. It was not even close to what I wanted and yet everyone blamed me for doing whatever I wanted.
>It's not an isolated incident and has been brought up to me by many staff (mods/admins) and many members

I quite frankly don't believe this. If many staff members and members have come to you to complain about me then they have done so because of something I did that they don't like. not because of my activity or work ethic as there are many on the staff team with far worse of both of those things than me and I don't believe I'd be the only one they complained about. and since I'm the only one demoted they clearly weren't complaining about anyone else
rtcabooservb07/15/2019
> I have very little to do compared to you. I've never been involved with updates to new versions and I don't have anything on that scale that I could do.

In comparison, the answer is maybe. But that doesn't mean there is nothing to do. There has always been things to do, things that can be improved, and things that can be worked on. A lot of what I did could have been helped or completed by others, let alone all the stuff that needs done that I have not taken up myself (darkzone). I can only rephrase statements so many different ways. If you don't take the initiative yourself, it's on you to live with the consequences. People are promoted to Admin and Mod to assist where I cannot in my stead. Admins have always existed to act in a capcity on my behalf. I'm not going to be dragging people kicking and screaming to get stuff done if they care very little to show a little initiative and effort to help.

> Its not that I don't want the responsibility I like getting on and being involved with the community. I like helping everyone out and being around to assist. I just don't see any point in me doing things like apps where I offer no new insight.

"It's not that I don't want responsibility, I just don't want responsibility."

Again, you can click through and read all the links I posted here. There's probably some more but you've made it clear to me that you don't want to do server or community work. I gave you an alternative option to being staff that lets you do backend dev work still in a similar capacity, so it's take it or leave it at this point.
https://discordapp.com/channels/@me/119102811421147138/600285772196741139
> For everything I do i see advise and assistance from other staff members or community members that are interested. but I get nothing back. If other people aren't willing to put in any effort I can only work alone,

All meaningless if you don't drive the engagement and experiment with implementations. Admins should steer conversation, focus down the testing ideas and iterate on actual work, not speak only in concepts until people agree. Leadership and initiative... Doing actual things instead of being lazy. Working with people and constantly deferring back to engagement from the community to assist and participate.

> I quite frankly don't believe this.

Then ask around for honest opinions today from everyone. All staff, all community members, people you like, people you don't like, people you've had problems with, everyone.

>  I don't believe I'd be the only one they complained about. and since I'm the only one demoted they clearly weren't complaining about anyone else

You aren't, but concerning staff have already left, been spoken to, resigned, are being watched, or have received the talk to improve here on forward or consider stepping down until the situation improves.

One of the biggest issues people have is with your work ethic. You shut people down outright without listening to what they have to say. It's the reason nobody feels like arguing with you and conversations to move forward end up not happening very often. Even in some situations such as me taking words you have said and you don't have a rebuttal or excuse to something I've brought up or directly quoted you on, you move on past it and ignore it. So I don't know what to tell you.
Andyy07/15/2019
Its up to you what role you want me in. I'm prepared to continue as an admin and working to improve the server as I always have. If you want more activity and doing apps then I can do that. It seems you demoted me for not doing extra stuff that admins aren't expected to do anyway. despite all the extra stuff that I do do.
If you don't want me in that role then I respect your decision. But I'm not prepared to take a nothing role like creator where I can't do anything I enjoy and am expected to still get online all the time in the hopes that I can find something to work on because I've done that, I know exactly how that'll go and I'd rather not waste both of our times.
rtcabooservb07/15/2019
I demoted you because I called you out on your bluff when you thought that was probably never going to happen. You said so yourself to demote you because you aren't going to change and do staff / community work or engage socially with the community. You've even said numerous times in the last year to demote you if you are causing a problem because you don't want to be an issue (links above). Your start of this conversation has sparked change for me to make it so admins who have low to no engagement, activity, or work will be removed.

Special treatment is not something that will be given out to anyone anymore, yourself included. As it is a cancer that eats away at the foundation of the staff team, requirements, and responsibility. You expect to retain all power and status without any of the required work or engagement.

If you believe creator to be a nothing role that won't improve over time and isn't something you want to "dev" on to do backend stuff, then so be it. Creators aren't required to be online but they are required to do actual work to benefit the community on occasion if they wish to retain the power and engage with the community to know what the community wants to see improved. I'll remove it from you then. You must have incredible foresight to know how things will turn out already.
Andyy07/15/2019
I've been here for years. I've seen how you work and how the server works. I know its a role you'll ignore as you believe people need to put their own effort in to find work. but they can't ask you for work, they can't get work from the staff team or the community. They have to be active and find it on their own. I know the server inside and out, I know what there is to do and I know that I'll have nothing to do unless people want stuff and without being staff I'll never know what they want.
I've been here long enough to know that admins are the ones that do anything major. nothing I try to do will be allowed unless I'm admin.
you'll give the job to an admin
rtcabooservb07/15/2019
I have nothing else to contribute or say to you Andy. If you don't want to strive and put in the effort to give it a chance, then so be it. Speak with others if you want to hear what they honestly think. Creator is a new position that hasn't even been given the opportunity to shine when it's entire purpose is to do dev work without being staff. If you don't care to even try it and put your best foot forward to work on things you want to work on, then I'm not going to drag you by force until you do it. Anyone who has requested work from me has always been given a list of tasks that can be worked on, you should know better.
This conversation is over, there's nothing else to say and nothing will change your mind.
Andyy07/15/2019
You aren't and don't have to. I was capable of working on the things I wanted to work on. now I'm not
Andyy07/15/2019
If you don't believe that I contribute enough to the server to be worth giving a chance then I guess I failed you.
but you didn't call my bluff. I didn't say to demote me thinking you wouldn't do it. I was and have been prepared to be demoted for ages. If you or the team felt I didn't belong then I don't want to be there.

I'll be around if you need me. not that you'll admit it if you do.
Andyy07/16/2019
https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/bedwars-rel.6799/

If you can get that working in 1.14 it would likely be a very fun minigame/arena for people to play. I built most of a map that wenger can probably clone a few times and change a bit to keep it fresh.
SpigotMC - High Performance Minecraft
Bedwars-Rel

rtcabooservb07/16/2019
Is it something people even want? I don't want to add minigames that people play once and never touch again. Like blockball, HG, etc.
A lot of arenas part of our same framework were removed because no one played them for that very reason.
Andyy07/16/2019
It was something the staff team was fond of adding a while ago.
It would be more of an event than an arena. sort of how walls was.
rtcabooservb07/16/2019
Does it need a framework to run optimally? Because otherwise then it may be better off as a separate server like how we use to run mega events. Isolated and self contained just for that event.
Andyy07/16/2019
Not sure. I haven't looked into the plugin much. It was just the most up to date one I could find when I had a quick look around.
I don't know that it would be popular enough to justify its own server. Its the sort of thing that can be played by anywhere from 3-4 single team players to 25-30 or more multiple player teams.
I wouldn't expect Eos to be able to pull together many multiple player teams for an event unless its hyped like crazy
rtcabooservb07/16/2019
If it's going to be an event, it shouldn't exist on the main server for 24/7 access. It would and should be hyped up as a special day mega event that is ran on its own pocket server for when it's to be hosted.
Events that require plugins and extensive setup I'd consider to be mega events. Stuff that's community ran and created, smaller normal events.
Andyy07/16/2019
fair but last time we had an events server no1 used it.
If its out of the way people lose interest/forget. If its a mega event then it generally will require you to run it.
If it can be setup like walls was so any admin can just turn it on, host a game or two then turn it back off it would be more accessible
rtcabooservb07/16/2019
So we don't bring back a hub event server. We just have a separate server that's only started up when that specific event is ran. But my biggest concern is keeping it updated with main if it's hardly used.
Andyy07/16/2019
it almost certainly will be hardly used
rtcabooservb07/16/2019
Then it isn't something we should add.
Simple as that.
Andyy07/16/2019
It would only be hardly used because staff will never host it.
people may want to play it a lot but without someone hosting it they can't. If its a mega event then it'll be used exactly as much as you are willing to host it. which if past promises of mega events are anything to go by will be almost never
AndyyLast Sunday at 3:16 AM
> I demoted you because I called you out on your bluff when you thought that was probably never going to happen. You said so yourself to demote you because you aren't going to change and do staff / community work or engage socially with the community. You've even said numerous times in the last year to demote you if you are causing a problem because you don't want to be an issue (links above). Your start of this conversation has sparked change for me to make it so admins who have low to no engagement, activity, or work will be removed.

I said to demote me to get you to hold the team to some standard. I didn't expect you'd just demote me especially when I was far from the worst offender of all of the reasons you have for demoting me. I expected to be held to the standard with the rest of the team and to be given a chance to meet the standard. I didn't expect you'd just decide I don't deserve a chance after everything I've done. .
> Special treatment is not something that will be given out to anyone anymore, yourself included. As it is a cancer that eats away at the foundation of the staff team, requirements, and responsibility. You expect to retain all power and status without any of the required work or engagement.

Special treatment is something you gave me of your own free will. Nobody made you do that and maybe I became a bit complacent with it. That's on me but surely I've if I've done anything it's prove that Im capable of far exceeding any standard you could possibly make up. Maybe not recently but I don't consider it possible to Excell as I once did in the environment we have now. I've come to accept that there is nothing I can do to improve the staff team or hold them to any sort of mark when you aren't prepared to do the same so things slip. If you're really committed to holding people to stuff now, great. Hold me to it.

Not once before now have you or anyone expressed any serious concerns about my activity, how well I do staff duties or anything and I've definitely never been told to improve with any kind of punishment for not improving.

Yes you've expressed that you wanted the team and me to be better and yes I failed to improve but the same is true of every other admin and yet im the only one punished for it.

All I want and all I've ever wanted is to be part of the team to help shape the sever and make it a fun place for the community. I know you know that even if you think otherwise at the moment. I've been staff for close to 5 years and have contributed what I believe to be more than every other staff member combined. Past and present. I get that this does not grant me immunity from the rules and it doesn't make me God. But i would like to be allowed a chance to prove to you in still in it for the server and can meet whatever rules you want to set on staff