a guest Dec 11th, 2019 111 Never
Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!
- Hey !
- I totally agree with dream.
- [SPOILER= Thought about FullCeus legality]
- Quick note to start, but I think that the restricted Arceus (only 100EV on all stats) solution shouldn't be focused too much, only FullCeus should be discussed. Ban non-restricted Arceus but allow the restricted Arceus (is) seems a terrible lack of consistency and simplicity, an important aspect of Smogon rules. History shows us that this type of ban should be avoided (Example : Baton Pass, I think that it is safe to say, BP "PS" nerf don't have changed that much that BP have been finally fully banned in SM).
- In my opinion, FullCeus is legal like Farceus, since Level 80 Hall of Origin (=FullCeus) exists in the game. Not even DPP data but DPP games themselves so it is something planned by Game Freak, basically if GF has decided to release Azure Flute it would be 100% legal. It is something rare (I think that only Darkrai and Shyamin were in same case? And both were allowed accoring Fireburn).
- At this point, I will quote something of our past utl, aka Fireburn , from the old thread about DPP Arceus legality :
- As far as I can tell from combing through old PR threads (a trip through memory lane if there ever was one), we follow a simple banning philosophy at our core : whatever is legally obtainable in-game without the help of an external cheating device (example : using a Gameshark to get Wonder Guard Spiritomb or Sheer Cold Machamp) is fair game unless it is explicitly banned by our ruleset. Glitches fall under this definition, and usually they have only been prohibited if they are significantly detrimental to competitive balance or just play in general (Acid Weather, Mimic Glitch, glitchmons in rby). The rationale for allowing the Darkrai and Shaymin obtainable via the tweaking glitch is that they are fully obtainable within the confines of the game itself, without the aid of an external cheating device, and it is possible to start a multiplayer battle with these Pokemon once obtained. This was previously not thought to be possible with the Hall of Origin Arceus, but we now have conclusive proof that it was in fact possible the whole time, ergo it should be allowed under the same rationale that Darkrai and Shaymin were allowed.
- (Note that there isn't a thread I could find titled "Darkrai and Shaymin are now unbanned", but from reviewing the old PR stuff there is enough to indicate they were allowed.)
- The glitch who allow to catch Arceus don't use "external cheating" to bring player to Arceus and start multi-player battle, and, on other hand, do not "significantly detrimental to competitive balance". It all good!
- I'm not familiar at all with the NP Gengar mentionned by M Dragon but after some researchs I can see that the bug allow any pokemon to learn any moves (see the description of glitch), it easily fail under this "prohibited if they are significantly detrimental to competitive balance". By this, I mean, we can't compare the glitch which allow to catch HOO Arceus, witch (HOO Arceus I mean, not the glitch himself) are created by GF, and a glitch who allow to every pokemon to get litteraly... every move.
- Tl;dr Level 80 HOO Arceus IS legal, and shouldn't be "banned" because we are using a glitch.
- Talking about Arceus or not:
- I often play DPP Ubers (so without Arceus), and I am opposed at the introduction of Arceus in DPP Ubers, for two (majors) reasons :
- * Considering how metagame will change after ots introdution - basically 720 BST 17 pokemon, it would mean that the classic DPP Ubers would be changed forever, and this 3 generations after DPP's end. This fact amplify my personal incomprehension about why option 1 are selected in case no option is clearly liked. Introduce Arceus only now would like if we unban Mega-Rayquaza in ORAS, creating a totally new (broken) metagame after the generation end. Moreover it would be in chall-only, let make temporary RoA spotlights ladder aside. I suppose, this metagame, FullCeus or FarCeus, can't reasonably develop and will have hard time to gain plublic samples, ressources to help newer players ect..
- Some people will maybe say, there are some low tiers who have been created after end of generation like DPP PU, but these metagames are actively supported by the community and were even created by players. I believe, it's not the case for Full/FarCeus DPP Ubers. Like dream on this thread or Hugendugen on the 2years-old thread said, the playerbase (and I agree) don't particularly like Full/FarCeus and prefer the current DPP Ubers.
- I think that it worth mentionning that classic DPP Ubers is the only generation of Ubers who have been in Smogon Tour and this without Arceus. The current DPP Ubers is a unique level on Ubers generation and even on overall Smogon , and it should be preserved, at least I feel.
- * All Arceus-forms in DPP are unhealty and potentially broken wocy result in a less enjoyable metagame. This point is a bit tricky due to Ubers policy at this moment but I simply agree with steelskitty and dream here, dream has well explained this aspect, I don't have many things to add, just one more point, unlike BW and later gen, you cannot try to guess Arceus-type, (with for example, "oh my opposant don't have any Yveltal check except Arceus so I expect that it is Fairy or Dark Arceus" or something like this in USUM) since Team Preview is removed.
- tl;dr my preference would go for the Option 3, KEEP ARCEUS BANNED (or officially ban Arceus it is same thing)
- Posting here, on PR is a bit intimidating because I know I'm not exactly the most legitimate person to say such things, since my level isn't high compared at most of people who posted here. But whatever our opinon about Arceus in DPP Ubers, since it could be the final thread about this, I believe that we need to have high participation and it is what have motivated to post here. Thank for reading!
RAW Paste Data