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  2. SRDudeToday at 12:40 PM
  3. Ok
  5. ArcheiaToday at 12:40 PM
  6. Copyright laws still stick with created stuff
  7. Commercial or otherwise
  9. SRDudeToday at 12:41 PM
  10. Ok, let's go with that
  12. ArcheiaToday at 12:42 PM
  13. Its safer to assume that its sacred unless plugin developer says its ok on terms of use
  14. We also take into consideration community health on sold plugins. Rmw is also official to share atuff
  15. We have classifieds for a reason
  16. If we go by vxa sphere
  17. Also im shorthanding a lot since phone
  18. That said i do agree mods are gray area
  19. But selling mods to community is a lot more complicated
  20. We want to protect ppl especially on cases like kaus
  21. Indie resource sellers are in more scrutiny since last 2 years, about 5+ ppl were caught already
  22. Some more private than others
  23. That why i said, you should communicate more with dev now more than ever. Especially if they dont want to be associated
  25. GitHub
  26. rpgtkoolmv/corescript
  27. Contribute to rpgtkoolmv/corescript development by creating an account on GitHub.
  29. Also here
  31. SRDudeToday at 12:51 PM
  32. Fair enough, I would certainly agree that from a moral perspective, it's not as OK.
  34. ArcheiaToday at 12:52 PM
  35. If olivia said she doesnt want ava supporting her plugs, what should ava do?
  37. SRDudeToday at 12:52 PM
  38. Stop
  39. But did that happen?
  41. ArcheiaToday at 12:53 PM
  42. It screws creator too right?
  44. SRDudeToday at 12:53 PM
  45. Yeah, of course
  46. But do you believe this behavior alone justifies the sweeping ban for Ava, however?
  48. ArcheiaToday at 12:55 PM
  49. Iirc one of the reasons Ava was banned for trying to post nsfw stuff on places like rmw which is pg-13
  50. And use innocent images to lure on their nsfw game to bypass around rule after theywere told to stop
  51. And other things
  52. My argument however is its weird hes selling compat plugins from paid asset creators in a storefront
  53. Commission and public storefront is different business
  55. SRDudeToday at 12:57 PM
  56. I don't disagree with that
  57. I just wanted to get more clarification on the subject.
  59. ArcheiaToday at 12:57 PM
  60. Im not on discussing on ban however, its mostly with portal
  62. SRDudeToday at 12:57 PM
  63. :ok_hand:
  65. ArcheiaToday at 12:58 PM
  66. Why i was like yep ban him
  67. I wanna protect kids lol
  69. SRDudeToday at 12:58 PM
  70. I do wish to talk more about the plagiarism however, since that is the crux behind everything I said.
  72. ArcheiaToday at 12:58 PM
  73. Plagiarism wise yanfly already talked about it and im not gonna enter
  74. Its mostly you replied to me first
  75. :ok_hand:
  77. SRDudeToday at 12:59 PM
  78. No no, that's OK, I'm just trying to post my thing before it all gets lost in the conversation. XD
  80. SRDudeToday at 1:07 PM
  81. Regardless of the external accusations, I still do not believe justice was done right in this case when labeling Ava a plagiarist. The original claim before I spoke up was that this plugin literally copy-pasted Yanfly's code and made small adjustments. And that's why they needed to be banned here asap. But that's simply not the case. It's not even close. While the visual design is based off it, the code base is so drastically different there is no room for discussion. Any similarities between the plugins are due to their use of the same RPG Maker API and the fact they're going for a similar look. But the way they accomplish these goals is so drastically different, that plagiarism would be illogical. This person is clearly more than capable and knowledgeable to create it on their own. This idea that they repurposed the entire codebase to such a drastic extent is simply unfeasible. It would be easier just to write it from scratch. Hopefully some of the other coders here could provide some input, because I can't see how the comparisons Yanfly provided have any sort of logic to them.
  83. Both plugins display a "level" stat, so of course the for-loops are 1 more longer. And even in code posted for the for-loops, you can see the drastic differences. YEP redraws a single window, while Ava creates multiple separate windows.
  85. They're both using RPG Maker, so of course you're going use "drawText" and use the player stats? Like, it's one thing if a specific formula from YEP's is being used for the positioning of some things, but there's not even that.
  87. The comparisons made are such unbelievable nitpicks. I have to ask, if this person did not see any YEP Level Up Aftermath code whatsoever, but still attempted to replicate the final design, what would you expect the code base to look like? Could you provide an example of how the compared code would need to look to not be stolen?
  89. That's what I have to say on the matter.
  91. Resi ♥Today at 2:40 PM
  92. @Archeia What does a user being a pedo have to do with work created?
  94. ArcheiaToday at 2:43 PM
  95. @Resi ♥ it's an example of connections
  96. it's just an example of like do you want your stuff be connected wth someone like that
  97. why you have to ask for permission and why companies do collaboration talks
  98. it's not related to here but we were talking about why asking for permission, esp. for indie is important
  100. Resi ♥Today at 2:44 PM
  101. if someone made something based off my work it doesn't make it a collab
  102. and it doesn't matter who that person, so long as the work provided ends up being useful to others
  104. ArcheiaToday at 2:44 PM
  105. That's not my point though?
  106. we can talk in PM but not here
  107. since SRD and YF are talking about something
  109. Resi ♥Today at 2:45 PM
  110. i just don't understand that analogy is all
  112. PivbooToday at 2:45 PM
  113. the point that Archeia was trying to make
  114. say that I make a Victory Screen Plugin
  115. then someone makes an extension
  116. if you google my plugin
  117. their addon comes up after mine
  118. then; accusations about them being a pedo comes up afterwards
  119. suddenly that person doesn't feel comfortable with my plugin, even if the pedo charges were on the addon creator, not me
  121. Resi ♥Today at 2:46 PM
  122. I tend to forget we live in a reactionary timeline
  124. ArcheiaToday at 2:46 PM
  125. Also remember, the drama with DMC creator?
  127. Resi ♥Today at 2:46 PM
  128. no i don't
  130. PivbooToday at 2:46 PM
  131. nope
  133. ArcheiaToday at 2:46 PM
  134. The lead vocalist was found out to be a child predator
  136. Resi ♥Today at 2:47 PM
  137. does it change the game?
  139. ArcheiaToday at 2:47 PM
  140. they removed the guy from the game
  141. cuz they don't want to be connected with someone like that
  143. Resi ♥Today at 2:47 PM
  144. which DMC
  146. ArcheiaToday at 2:47 PM
  147. DMC5
  148. Yakuza also has a situation like t his
  149. where they had to completely change a 3d model
  150. just because of association
  152. Resi ♥Today at 2:48 PM
  153. it doesn't really matter at the end of the day whether or not these things are removed or not
  155. ArcheiaToday at 2:48 PM
  156. You don't want to support or be associated
  157. with someone like that
  159. Resi ♥Today at 2:48 PM
  160. because people are still going to think "They supported a pedo/rapist/etc"
  162. ArcheiaToday at 2:48 PM
  163. It's why I don't buy chick fil-a food because I know they contribute to hate charity
  165. Resi ♥Today at 2:48 PM
  166. because they're going to remember their outrage more
  168. ArcheiaToday at 2:48 PM
  169. it's the same concept as that one
  170. no, because people will be like, oh they didn't know. And it's good they disassociated
  171. because if you stayed, then it's seen as supporting that person for their activities
  173. Resi ♥Today at 2:49 PM
  174. I guess it doesn't matter to me what one person did to affect what they make for something
  175. A corporation like chik fil a sure
  176. wouldn't support business like that
  178. PivbooToday at 2:50 PM
  179. mind if I could get some clarification on this subject? was the author ever asked to remove the addon?
  181. ArcheiaToday at 2:50 PM
  182. IT doesn't matter to you but for business it's still bad rap to a lot of ppl
  183. no no
  184. our talk wasn't actually about that
  186. Resi ♥Today at 2:50 PM
  187. pivoo is asking about the initial situation now
  188. there's no changing my stance on my indifference toward creation
  190. ArcheiaToday at 2:50 PM
  191. I only mentioned that it's weird that ava was providing some storefront compatibility patch to a paid plugin
  193. Resi ♥Today at 2:50 PM
  194. if someone does something bad that sucks but their work isn't moot because of it
  196. PivbooToday at 2:50 PM
  197. yeah; I didn't really have a chance to throw my gloves in the situation since I was sleeping :sweat_smile:
  199. Resi ♥Today at 2:51 PM
  200. people still love chris brown's music
  202. ArcheiaToday at 2:51 PM
  203. When storefront and commissions are two completely businesses
  204. cuz wouldn't it be better to talk to the paid plugin developer first about their product before making somethjing out of it
  205. if you read up you'll see what me and srd were talking about :joy:
  207. PivbooToday at 2:51 PM
  208. yeah of course
  209. but I never really saw if Olivia had any say about any of that part
  211. ArcheiaToday at 2:52 PM
  212. Olivia's porbably still at school
  214. PivbooToday at 2:52 PM
  215. it seemed mostly like Yanfly just took the situation and rolled with it
  217. ArcheiaToday at 2:52 PM
  218. but I never mentioned anything about the yanfly and olivia thing
  219. I just said
  220. that it's weird
  222. PivbooToday at 2:52 PM
  223. I know; I'm just asking for clarification
  224. I'm trying to come to a conclusion about everything, and that was information that I needed to come to the conclusion
  226. ArcheiaToday at 2:53 PM
  227. Olivia and Yanfly's stuff aren't MIT
  228. which makes it extra weird for me
  229. I understand RPG maker MV corescript
  230. cuz MV corescript is MIT
  231. Olivia and Irina both asked Yanfly for his permission first before doing anything with it for selling in particular
  233. PivbooToday at 2:54 PM
  234. true
  236. ArcheiaToday at 2:55 PM
  237. welp gotta start packing I hope I make more sense now
  239. 🐇🐇🐇Today at 2:56 PM
  240. Alright, I'm back from errands
  241. I've have an awful time out there today so forgive me if my tongue is harsher than normal
  242. Especially added on top of a worse night sleep than usual
  243. In any case
  244. SRD, are you fucking serious?
  245. I just pointed out all the reasons why the code is lifted and you just ignore it all?
  246. The pieces are all there
  248. PivbooToday at 2:57 PM
  249. he didn't ignore it though???
  251. 🐇🐇🐇Today at 2:57 PM
  252. He did
  253. Second off: if you really are an experienced programmer, you will know for certain that there is no way there's only one way to code something
  254. Third off: and since you did acknowledge the fact you did take inspiration from my code for at least the timeout, did you at least comply with what is asked by me in the Terms of Service?
  255. All that's required is credit
  256. In your plugin and in Ava's, neither is there
  257. Now, I'm cutting things short because I don't feel like explaining things for nth time
  258. Especially not in detail since I'm not in the mood right now
  259. If you wish for me to explain further, then don't press me now, press me later when I'm in a situation to care
  260. I'll also say that since I've turned a blind eye to this for the past three years now, it won't hurt me to turn a blind eye to it again
  262. PivbooToday at 3:01 PM
  263. it sounds like a simple addition of credit would solve the issue then?
  264. at least for SRD's issue
  266. 🐇🐇🐇Today at 3:01 PM
  267. SRD, yes
  268. But if you ask me
  269. What he considers the grey area doesn't align with what I consider plagiarism
  270. Ava, however, I'm not so keen on
  271. There's a more specific attempt to hide the workings
  272. Like I said before
  273. Why i = 0; i < 9; i++ ?
  274. Why not
  275. drawLevel()
  276. for loop 1 < 8?
  277. You cannot say that it's the more efficient thing to do because there's no such thing in this context.
  278. The person in question also knows drawLevel as a function so that does not exclude the fact that's a possibility from their level of knowledge
  279. I can go deeper and deeper but the point is already made
  280. Now, in regards to me influencing how other people code, sure, I can buy that, but if that's the case, why not take from the other examples I've made down the line and only this specific one?
  281. All in all, the more questions I ask here, the less likely it is that Ava made the code all original
  283. PivbooToday at 3:07 PM
  284. no offense and all; but I do think that your actions did jump the gun a bit, there's evidence that it's been plagiarized; but there's no concrete proof that he didn't simple reference your code due to an issue he was having. I think asking him to remove the code, redo the code, or ask for credit for the code would have been far better ways to handle it; Plagiarism is a huge issue, I get that. but it's also something that you shouldn't be lightly in accusation. Not to mention that there's better avenues to solve the issue
  286. 🐇🐇🐇Today at 3:08 PM
  287. First off, the one who called the suspicions for plagiarism is Irina, but this is not to throw Irina under the bus
  288. Irina is one who can tell when something is plagiarized or not from the get go, as I'm sure a few of you here are aware
  290. PivbooToday at 3:08 PM
  291. oof the shade I love it XD
  293. 🐇🐇🐇Today at 3:08 PM
  294. Second off, the person wasn't willing to comply or defend themselves, so why would they have followed what I said in the first place?
  296. PivbooToday at 3:09 PM
  297. actually; another clarification I would need for my conclusion
  299. TatsumakiBOTToday at 3:09 PM
  300. :up:  |  Pivoo leveled up!
  303. 🐇🐇🐇Today at 3:09 PM
  304. Third off, the article was a call to awareness, not a witch hunt for plagiarism
  306. PivbooToday at 3:09 PM
  307. what was the timespan that this happened on?
  309. 🐇🐇🐇Today at 3:10 PM
  310. Better question: does the timespan have any relevancy to this conflict?
  312. PivbooToday at 3:10 PM
  313. yanfly; I'm sure you're aware that the idealism behind and the result of something don't always line up
  315. 🐇🐇🐇Today at 3:10 PM
  316. And what's that supposed to mean?
  318. PivbooToday at 3:11 PM
  319. you can have the intent to just call attention to, but in the end of the day if people are being burned at the stake, then it's still a witch hunt
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