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  1. ah
  2. so since I'm uneducated
  3. or rather
  4. since I want AP back
  5. I must be uneducated
  6. interesting
  7.  
  8. [11/8/2018, 11:23 AM]
  9. The Prince:
  10. Why the fuck would you want that back
  11. It was retarded
  12.  
  13. [11/8/2018, 11:23 AM]
  14. t.y.next:
  15. because it's a million times better than trades
  16.  
  17. [11/8/2018, 11:23 AM]
  18. The Prince:
  19. That's not an argument for bringing back AP
  20.  
  21. [11/8/2018, 11:23 AM]
  22. t.y.next:
  23. I'm not gonna repeat what I've said a million times to you, if you've not payed attention then w/e
  24. for months ever since trades came
  25. i said bring back ap
  26.  
  27. [11/8/2018, 11:23 AM]
  28. The Prince:
  29. Explain to me why AP is good without saying that trades are bad
  30.  
  31. [11/8/2018, 11:24 AM]
  32. t.y.next:
  33. boner liked trades at first when they came out
  34. he really liked em
  35. but over time he grew to hate them
  36. AP isn't perfect, neither are trades, but ap just happens to be the lesser of two evils
  37.  
  38. [11/8/2018, 11:24 AM]
  39. The Prince:
  40. I'm not a fan of trades
  41. But AP was a bad mechanic dude
  42. I'm honestly surprised
  43. that you would support it
  44.  
  45. [11/8/2018, 11:25 AM]
  46. t.y.next:
  47. The patch when trades were introduced
  48. I can't remember which one but
  49. I hated it before it even released
  50.  
  51. [11/8/2018, 11:25 AM]
  52. The Prince:
  53. Yeah I don't like trades either
  54. I think they let the 1 in the 1vX get away with playing dumber than one would normally play
  55.  
  56. [11/8/2018, 11:26 AM]
  57. t.y.next:
  58. I just always find it funny that
  59. to make trades works, it's not just 1 mechanic
  60. it's actually about 3 mechanics
  61. that make up one mechanic
  62. first the attack needs to be unflinchable
  63. or it wouldn't work
  64. second, when you're riposting you have to have damage reduction
  65. so you don't get insta one shot
  66. third, you need to have the lockout
  67. or people will just attack into you and parry
  68. so interestingly enough, this mechanic which is so "pristine" and "brilliant"
  69. is actually just 3 mechanics added together
  70. because the base idea is so shit
  71. and you need 3 separate mechanics to make it actually one whole mechanic
  72. how incredible that it
  73. is
  74.  
  75. [11/8/2018, 11:28 AM]
  76. The Prince:
  77. I really don't see why they even needed to have added trades
  78. Does 1vX need a buff to that extent
  79.  
  80. [11/8/2018, 11:29 AM]
  81. t.y.next:
  82. I would just have nothing
  83. but that's not reasonable for casuals
  84.  
  85. [11/8/2018, 11:30 AM]
  86. The Prince:
  87. Wow so you're saying what I've been saying since forever
  88. remove it and replace it with nothing
  89. !!!
  90.  
  91. [11/8/2018, 11:30 AM]
  92. t.y.next:
  93. yeah
  94. except that's unreasonable
  95. so it'd never happen
  96.  
  97. [11/8/2018, 11:30 AM]
  98. The Prince:
  99. I really don't see why it's unreasonable
  100. I think it's actually more intuitive than to have hit trading
  101.  
  102. [11/8/2018, 11:31 AM]
  103. t.y.next:
  104. It's more intuitive than anything - trades or ap
  105. because it's nothingness
  106.  
  107. [11/8/2018, 11:32 AM]
  108. The Prince:
  109. That and because it makes sense that 1vX should be hard. It also makes sense that hitting someone should flinch them
  110. Instead of having it that sometimes attacks flinch and sometimes they don't
  111.  
  112. [11/8/2018, 11:33 AM]
  113. t.y.next:
  114. Giru... he and I debate about AP all the time
  115. He calls blink a retard but
  116. he would never do that with me
  117. we talk for soooo long about it
  118. the one thing that I just won't ever accept
  119. is he brought up this situation
  120. where if I have 2 of me
  121. versus 1 of me
  122. just like clones
  123. that the 1 of me would be able to win some
  124. and i just said no
  125. it'd never happen
  126. it'd be pretty much a 0% success rate
  127. the idea being that
  128. if you have 2 players of equal skill level (which is hard to define, which is why the example is cloning)
  129.  
  130. [11/8/2018, 11:34 AM]
  131. The Prince:
  132. I get it
  133.  
  134. [11/8/2018, 11:34 AM]
  135. t.y.next:
  136. the 1 should never win
  137. ever
  138. regardless of trades or ap or anything
  139.  
  140. [11/8/2018, 11:34 AM]
  141. The Prince:
  142. Yeah that's true
  143.  
  144. [11/8/2018, 11:34 AM]
  145. t.y.next:
  146. they just shouldn't win
  147. coz it's 2 fuckin clones of me
  148.  
  149. [11/8/2018, 11:34 AM]
  150. The Prince:
  151. Yeah that's logical
  152.  
  153. [11/8/2018, 11:34 AM]
  154. t.y.next:
  155. how the fuck are 2 clones of me gonna lose to 1 me?
  156. just odnt make sense
  157.  
  158. [11/8/2018, 11:34 AM]
  159. The Prince:
  160. They never would
  161. Unless
  162. the only way
  163. Is that if by the fact that there are two
  164. Means that a handicap is somehow imparted on them
  165. That reduces them to 50% normal level
  166. so then theoretically that could happen
  167. But there's no such kind of handicap
  168. Because you can negate damage with hyper armor, sure. But that's just one variable. You can't make it so 2 clones wouldn't beat the original lol
  169. But I fail to see how this is an argument in favor of AP
  170. You're just saying that it ultimately wouldn't matter if there was a 1v2 with all players having equal skill
  171.  
  172. [11/8/2018, 11:36 AM]
  173. t.y.next:
  174. well he brought up that scenario
  175.  
  176. [11/8/2018, 11:36 AM]
  177. The Prince:
  178. Because the 2 will always win no matter what
  179.  
  180. [11/8/2018, 11:36 AM]
  181. t.y.next:
  182. to sort of 'highlight' how trades are better vs comp players
  183. and how AP is 'skill capped'
  184.  
  185. [11/8/2018, 11:37 AM]
  186. The Prince:
  187. ehhh... ?
  188. like what
  189. Trades are nearly in the same scenario, except they're not as arbitrary
  190. like you know if someone ripostes, they have hyper armor
  191.  
  192. [11/8/2018, 11:38 AM]
  193. t.y.next:
  194. Here's what crush and giru mean when they say AP is skill capped
  195. basically with old ap
  196.  
  197. [11/8/2018, 11:38 AM]
  198. The Prince:
  199. I get what they mean
  200.  
  201. [11/8/2018, 11:38 AM]
  202. t.y.next:
  203. you could just attack into somenes ap and instantly parry
  204.  
  205. [11/8/2018, 11:38 AM]
  206. The Prince:
  207. I already know the argument
  208. yeah
  209.  
  210. [11/8/2018, 11:38 AM]
  211. t.y.next:
  212. good
  213. but
  214. it's just not right to say that
  215. because you know what adding the lockout does?
  216. it just makes players play 300ms slower
  217. or however long the lockout is
  218. i still do the same thing lmao
  219. i look to hit into someone riposting
  220. I just make sure when i do it
  221. i will be able to avoid the lockout
  222. it doesnt change shit
  223. it just slows it down slightly
  224. and especially if im full health
  225. idgaf trading into someone, parry or not
  226. they're losing health
  227. their collective health pool is lower than 2 players
  228. trades are the skill capped mechanic
  229. because no matter how well you play
  230. you will be traded to death in some scenarios
  231. health is finite, so is stamina
  232. but health significantly moreso
  233. with AP, as the 1, you have an infinite number of solutions to a 1vx scenario within the scope of your stamina
  234. (which, there is plenty of now)
  235. with trades, you're limited
  236. you're almost always going to be taking damage
  237. and fuck the whole idea that they just parry after hitting into your ap
  238. fuckin drag them then
  239. it's the same fuckin thin with trades
  240. no difference
  241. except slightly slower
  242. of course, ideally there should be no artificial mechanics
  243. i win majority of 1vx off of fundamentals
  244. not some bullshit artificial mechanic
  245.  
  246. [11/8/2018, 11:43 AM]
  247. The Prince:
  248. Wait what
  249. "fuck the whole idea that they just parry after hitting into your ap"
  250. they wouldn't need to
  251. it flinches the AP guy
  252. The problem with AP was that it could just be parried and then your team could just fuck the AP guy after his AP got parried
  253.  
  254. [11/8/2018, 11:45 AM]
  255. t.y.next:
  256. no
  257. if it's in front
  258. not in back
  259. you hit someone in the front as they're in AP
  260. so they parried it
  261. and you're about to get hit
  262. so you just parry
  263.  
  264. [11/8/2018, 11:47 AM]
  265. The Prince:
  266. Ah I see what you're saying
  267.  
  268. [11/8/2018, 11:47 AM]
  269. t.y.next:
  270. so the same scenario now, if the timings align
  271. you'll get traded
  272. because you can't parry due to the lockout
  273.  
  274. [11/8/2018, 11:47 AM]
  275. The Prince:
  276. Yeah, and so you're saying that they should just drag it if they don't want their AP to be parried
  277.  
  278. [11/8/2018, 11:48 AM]
  279. t.y.next:
  280. right
  281. which is the exact same fuckin thing right now
  282. if i don't want some guy to hit into my riposte
  283. and then parry my riposte
  284. i drag him
  285. there's just no difference
  286. getting hit in the back?
  287. learn to 1vx
  288. not that hard
  289.  
  290. [11/8/2018, 11:50 AM]
  291. The Prince:
  292. Again though that's not really an argument as to why we should have AP
  293. Like, it's still not a good mechanic
  294.  
  295. [11/8/2018, 11:50 AM]
  296. t.y.next:
  297. agreed
  298. it's not great
  299. but it's better than trades
  300.  
  301. [11/8/2018, 11:50 AM]
  302. The Prince:
  303. Well, I disagree.
  304.  
  305. [11/8/2018, 11:50 AM]
  306. t.y.next:
  307. even disregarding the comp experience
  308. because at the comp level everyone experiences something different
  309. ap is just sooooooooooo
  310. much
  311. easier
  312. for noobs to understand
  313.  
  314. [11/8/2018, 11:51 AM]
  315. The Prince:
  316. Yeah, maybe at the noob level AP is better
  317. But at competitive level, trading is better
  318.  
  319. [11/8/2018, 11:51 AM]
  320. t.y.next:
  321. theres a funny clip of klean just being confused when he's trading someone
  322. ill try to find it
  323. fk i cant find it
  324.  
  325. [11/8/2018, 11:52 AM]
  326. The Prince:
  327. I was wondering why goat was saying that AP is better
  328. Now I know why
  329. lol
  330.  
  331. [11/8/2018, 11:53 AM]
  332. t.y.next:
  333. giru is about the only relevant player hating on ap
  334. no offense to your relevancy
  335.  
  336. [11/8/2018, 11:53 AM]
  337. The Prince:
  338. No he's not
  339. Crush doesn't want it either
  340.  
  341. [11/8/2018, 11:53 AM]
  342. t.y.next:
  343. crush isn't relevant as a player
  344. i farm him on eu easily, he admits it
  345.  
  346. [11/8/2018, 11:53 AM]
  347. The Prince:
  348. Plus, it doesn't matter if the player is relevant or not you fucking idiot
  349. what matters is
  350. the logical argument
  351.  
  352. [11/8/2018, 11:53 AM]
  353. t.y.next:
  354. it does in this context
  355.  
  356. [11/8/2018, 11:54 AM]
  357. The Prince:
  358. get your head out of your ass lol
  359.  
  360. [11/8/2018, 11:54 AM]
  361. t.y.next:
  362. you're arguing in a competitive context
  363. you're not competitive
  364. so ???
  365.  
  366. [11/8/2018, 11:54 AM]
  367. The Prince:
  368. Ok, so people should never argue about football if they're not football players
  369. What a dumb fucking statement
  370.  
  371. [11/8/2018, 11:54 AM]
  372. t.y.next:
  373. arguing about the rules of football
  374. yes.
  375.  
  376. [11/8/2018, 11:55 AM]
  377. The Prince:
  378. I imagine Giru probably murders you in these arguments if this is the kind of terrible reasoning you use
  379.  
  380. [11/8/2018, 11:55 AM]
  381. t.y.next:
  382. no i change it
  383. im just telling you your opinion in a competitive sense doesnt rlly matter
  384. because you dunno how to 1vx
  385. so how can you comment on what is better?
  386. when you dont even know?
  387.  
  388. [11/8/2018, 11:56 AM]
  389. The Prince:
  390. "you dunno how to 1vX" is such a weird thing to say
  391. Like
  392. Most people don't consistently win 1vXs
  393.  
  394. [11/8/2018, 11:56 AM]
  395. t.y.next:
  396. I've seen june do it
  397. I know goat and shuugs are capable
  398. I'm sure blink sort of is as well
  399.  
  400. [11/8/2018, 11:56 AM]
  401. The Prince:
  402. I win 1vXs probably about as much as goat shuugs blink and june
  403.  
  404. [11/8/2018, 11:56 AM]
  405. t.y.next:
  406. Not from what I've seen
  407.  
  408. [11/8/2018, 11:56 AM]
  409. The Prince:
  410. Which is to say, not a lot
  411. Ok man, you're just ego stroking at this point, you aren't reallly arguing anything. I'm able to use reasoning to see why AP is not good in a competitive context
  412.  
  413. [11/8/2018, 11:57 AM]
  414. t.y.next:
  415. In any case, if we're arguing within the scope of competitiveness
  416. like I said, it all boils down to experience
  417. its' why giru and i differ
  418. we can't agree or disagree with each other
  419. because we've had different experiences
  420.  
  421. [11/8/2018, 11:57 AM]
  422. The Prince:
  423. Uhuuuh
  424. I'm pretty sure he can disagree with you that AP would be good in a competitive context
  425.  
  426. [11/8/2018, 11:58 AM]
  427. t.y.next:
  428. Oh he does, but he doesn't agree with my points
  429.  
  430. [11/8/2018, 11:58 AM]
  431. The Prince:
  432. ...
  433.  
  434. [11/8/2018, 11:58 AM]
  435. t.y.next:
  436. rather
  437. he doesnt' dismiss them*
  438. what happens is i tell him ap is bad, here's why
  439. i give him a scenario
  440. he says that scenario doesnt happen (because it never happened to him i guess)
  441. he gives me a scenario saying ap is bad
  442. gives me a scenario
  443. which ive never came across
  444. and so ultimately im like
  445. hmm, if that scenario did happen
  446. then yeah, that makes sense
  447. but ive not personally experienced that playing
  448. so how can i say?
  449. and back and forth
  450. and that's how it goes
  451.  
  452. [11/8/2018, 12:00 PM]
  453. The Prince:
  454. Well apparently nobody you fight against is actually competitive
  455. so how would you know what a competitive experience is like lol
  456.  
  457. [11/8/2018, 12:00 PM]
  458. t.y.next:
  459. Didn't say that
  460. just said you aren't
  461.  
  462. [11/8/2018, 12:00 PM]
  463. The Prince:
  464. hahahaha
  465.  
  466. [11/8/2018, 12:00 PM]
  467. t.y.next:
  468. I'd consider shuugs and goat and raw competitive
  469. and we 2v2 all the time
  470.  
  471. [11/8/2018, 12:00 PM]
  472. The Prince:
  473. So you're just insulting me then
  474.  
  475. [11/8/2018, 12:00 PM]
  476. t.y.next:
  477. even june i MIGHT consider competitive
  478.  
  479. [11/8/2018, 12:00 PM]
  480. The Prince:
  481. Because I'm definitely on the level of June when it comes to team fights
  482. Not as good a dueler, but I contribute as much if not more during our team fights
  483.  
  484. [11/8/2018, 12:01 PM]
  485. t.y.next:
  486. Well if you're going to make bold statements with huge certainty and associate yourself as competitive, then yeah
  487. gotta put you in your place
  488.  
  489. [11/8/2018, 12:01 PM]
  490. The Prince:
  491. You are the one making bold statements
  492. And you're doing them just to insult
  493.  
  494. [11/8/2018, 12:01 PM]
  495. t.y.next:
  496. [1:51 PM]
  497. Rolo:
  498. Yeah, maybe at the noob level AP is better
  499. But at competitive level, trading is better
  500. "But at competitive level, trading is better"
  501.  
  502. [11/8/2018, 12:01 PM]
  503. The Prince:
  504. Yeah, and you didnt' ask me my reasoning, you just went straight to insult
  505.  
  506. [11/8/2018, 12:02 PM]
  507. t.y.next:
  508. you should already be explaining to me
  509. as i see it, burden is on you to explain to me
  510.  
  511. [11/8/2018, 12:02 PM]
  512. The Prince:
  513. Sure
  514. I'll explain it
  515. It's the argument that's been given a million times
  516. by players like Giru and Crush
  517. Why at high levels, AP becomes obsolete
  518. Because a player will just parry it and then it is gone, it doesn't actually help with 1vX
  519. When players know what they're doing
  520. It's easily negatable
  521. Whereas trading is NOT easily negatable
  522. It covers your whole body
  523.  
  524. [11/8/2018, 12:03 PM]
  525. t.y.next:
  526. But with trades if someone parries your riposte
  527. there goes your hyperarmor
  528. and everything that comes with it
  529. how is that different?
  530.  
  531. [11/8/2018, 12:04 PM]
  532. The Prince:
  533. Because at at least with trades, the amount of scenarios where someone can easily negate your hyper armor is less than the amount of scenarios where someone can negate your AP
  534. They HAVE to parry the riposte, they can't finch you out of it
  535. tell me I'm wrong
  536. lol
  537.  
  538. [11/8/2018, 12:05 PM]
  539. t.y.next:
  540. So... you just don't like getting hit in the back?
  541. That's basically what that sort of line of thought comes down to
  542. As I see it, these two situations are 1:1
  543. 2 guys in front of you
  544. if 1 parries you, you lose your artifical mechanic bonus
  545. ap or trade
  546. whatever it is
  547. the difference comes when someone is behind you
  548.  
  549. [11/8/2018, 12:06 PM]
  550. The Prince:
  551. I just explained why they're not 1:1 The # of scenarios where AP can easily get fucked is way higher than the # of scenarios where trading can be easily fucked u
  552. up
  553.  
  554. [11/8/2018, 12:06 PM]
  555. t.y.next:
  556. ok, can you give me scenarios where ap is fucked
  557. other than one player being behind the ap'er
  558.  
  559. [11/8/2018, 12:07 PM]
  560. The Prince:
  561. Yeah
  562. first, if it gets parried
  563. second, if you get hit in the back
  564. third, if you get kicked
  565.  
  566. [11/8/2018, 12:07 PM]
  567. t.y.next:
  568. "if it gets parried" I see no difference between trades and ap in this regard, you're gonna have to explain to me what the difference is
  569. if you get hit in the back
  570. yes, ap is worse in that regard
  571. but
  572. get better fundamentals?
  573. get better footwork?
  574. if you're in that situation you should die anyway
  575. with a player behind you
  576. no?
  577. if you get kicked? can be modified to make trades/ap fine
  578.  
  579. [11/8/2018, 12:08 PM]
  580. The Prince:
  581. If you're arguing for better fundamentals and better footwork, you'll get no argument from me, but then why even have AP
  582. lol
  583.  
  584. [11/8/2018, 12:08 PM]
  585. t.y.next:
  586. kicks used to flinch riposte, remember?
  587. got changed
  588.  
  589. [11/8/2018, 12:09 PM]
  590. The Prince:
  591. To your first point
  592. There's no difference between AP and trades in that regard
  593.  
  594. [11/8/2018, 12:09 PM]
  595. t.y.next:
  596. I'm simply saying for the fundamentals part, if one player is behind you
  597. regardless of trades or ap, you're probably dead anyway
  598.  
  599. [11/8/2018, 12:09 PM]
  600. The Prince:
  601. With trades you have a better chance of living because of hyper armor 66% dmg reduction
  602. and you wouldn't be getting flinched
  603. Look, like... I've explained in concrete reasons why trading is just better for the 1 in 1vX. There's more scenarios where you can get fucked in AP
  604. Less in trades
  605. That's my point
  606. Now maybe you can make good arguments for why it's bad for the X to have trades
  607. vs why it's bad to have AP for the X
  608.  
  609. [11/8/2018, 12:11 PM]
  610. t.y.next:
  611. alright, but the way you've explained it
  612. the first point jsut bleeds over into the second
  613. how are you getting flinched unlses they're behind you??
  614.  
  615. [11/8/2018, 12:12 PM]
  616. The Prince:
  617. We're not arguing about fundamentals or footwork here
  618. We're just arguing about the actual mechanic itself
  619.  
  620. [11/8/2018, 12:12 PM]
  621. t.y.next:
  622. ok
  623. then lets use a scenario to make this easier on our brains
  624. 2 guys in front of you
  625. you can assume they're shoulder to shoulder
  626. so no real access to your back
  627.  
  628. [11/8/2018, 12:12 PM]
  629. The Prince:
  630. Alright
  631.  
  632. [11/8/2018, 12:12 PM]
  633. t.y.next:
  634. how is getting parried in that specific scenario
  635. with trades/ap different
  636.  
  637. [11/8/2018, 12:12 PM]
  638. The Prince:
  639. I've already said it's not
  640.  
  641. [11/8/2018, 12:13 PM]
  642. t.y.next:
  643. ok then
  644. that point is null, second point
  645. where they are behind you
  646. yes, trades are 'better' in that sense
  647. because you wont get flinched
  648. so that is a scenario where ap gets fucked more than trades
  649.  
  650. [11/8/2018, 12:13 PM]
  651. The Prince:
  652. and you won't take full damage from getting hit in the back
  653.  
  654. [11/8/2018, 12:13 PM]
  655. t.y.next:
  656. right
  657. as for the kicking scenario, it happened with trades as well and essentially it can be fixed for either
  658. remember that kicks used to flinch riposte
  659.  
  660. [11/8/2018, 12:14 PM]
  661. The Prince:
  662. Sure, I'll grant you that
  663. It's an easy fix
  664.  
  665. [11/8/2018, 12:14 PM]
  666. t.y.next:
  667. so that leaves us with a whole whopping ONE scenario
  668.  
  669. [11/8/2018, 12:14 PM]
  670. The Prince:
  671. if they wanted to do it
  672.  
  673. [11/8/2018, 12:14 PM]
  674. t.y.next:
  675. where ap gets fucked more than trades
  676. and that's if they're behind you
  677.  
  678. [11/8/2018, 12:15 PM]
  679. The Prince:
  680. The amount of times players are going to be surrounding you is FAR greater than the amount of times they'll be shoulder to shoulder right in front of you
  681. especially in a comp scenario
  682. Come on
  683.  
  684. [11/8/2018, 12:15 PM]
  685. t.y.next:
  686. ok ok fair enough
  687.  
  688. [11/8/2018, 12:15 PM]
  689. The Prince:
  690. MAYBE in a 2v2, if your team mate dies, you get your ideal scenario
  691.  
  692. [11/8/2018, 12:15 PM]
  693. t.y.next:
  694. but
  695.  
  696. [11/8/2018, 12:15 PM]
  697. The Prince:
  698. shoulder to shoulder guys
  699. but in a 3v3, 4v4, anything bigger
  700. You're going to be surrounded 90% of the time
  701.  
  702. [11/8/2018, 12:15 PM]
  703. t.y.next:
  704. the point of contention then is the idea that whether or not you have AP or trades, you're likely going to die
  705. if some guy is behind you
  706. trades slows it down maybe
  707. coz you're not taking full damage right
  708.  
  709. [11/8/2018, 12:16 PM]
  710. The Prince:
  711. Yes.
  712.  
  713. [11/8/2018, 12:16 PM]
  714. t.y.next:
  715. but
  716. you're still gonna die in majority of scenarios
  717. where there's a guy behind you
  718. essentially sandwiching you
  719.  
  720. [11/8/2018, 12:17 PM]
  721. The Prince:
  722. We can just use some simple statistics. In a million scenarios, all different, some where you're fighting two guys in front of you, some where you are surrounded, the AP scenario will make you survive maybe 100,000, but the trade scenario will probably make you survive 400,000
  723. Just for the simple virtue of having a greater amount of ways to save your ass
  724. But yes, you'll die in a majority, regardless
  725. That's the nature of 1vX
  726.  
  727. [11/8/2018, 12:19 PM]
  728. t.y.next:
  729. Well then, if you think trades are worth having so that you survive maybe one or two more scenarios
  730. then so be it lmao
  731. But of course, that would have to be weighed up against all the scenarios where you just die because of trades
  732. (ie, getting traded to death)
  733.  
  734. [11/8/2018, 12:19 PM]
  735. The Prince:
  736. That is only part of the argument in favor of trades
  737. It's not only about having a mechanic that helps you in 1vX
  738. It's about having a mechanic that is consistent. If you recall, AP was not consistent whatsoever.
  739. Sometimes you'd expect it to work and it just wouldn't
  740.  
  741. [11/8/2018, 12:20 PM]
  742. t.y.next:
  743. You're right, it wasn't until near the end
  744. when it became a force-field basically
  745. I think that by the end it was near 100% consistent, and of course, it could be tuned
  746. remember the premise that I don't think AP is perfect, certainly not
  747. trades are just a lazy and ugly solution
  748. not giving a fuck and just casting aside a mechanic which is fundamentally sound
  749. which, yes, needed a lot of work
  750.  
  751. [11/8/2018, 12:21 PM]
  752. The Prince:
  753. I think it was fundamentally flawed from the get go, but maybe they could've kept trying to work on it.
  754. Don't think it would've done much good. Just remove it, imo, which they did
  755. But they had to replace it for some reason
  756.  
  757. [11/8/2018, 12:22 PM]
  758. t.y.next:
  759. Well the ultimate justification for its removal was "not visually identifiable"
  760. which is just a lazy cunty excuse
  761. I could stretch and say that trades aren't identifiable as well
  762. which I won't, because I don't believe that
  763. I guarantee that to a new player they won't be able to identify it though
  764. that's for sure
  765.  
  766. [11/8/2018, 12:23 PM]
  767. The Prince:
  768. It wasn't visually identifiable
  769. They probably could've made it so that it was
  770. But that's not a false statement
  771. Once a new player learns what a riposte is
  772. He can simultaneously know what hyper armor is
  773. You're honestly better off using your time to argue against trades
  774. Instead of arguing for AP
  775. Because your arguments for AP basically boil down to "trades suck"
  776.  
  777. [11/8/2018, 12:25 PM]
  778. t.y.next:
  779. why should i be forced to take damage
  780. trades are spammy and don't feel good (because you can't do anything about it)
  781. at least with AP if your teammate feeds
  782. you can still parry
  783. if your teammate feeds a maul and you happened to be attacking
  784. you're just fucked
  785. you're dead
  786. nothing you can do. literally.
  787.  
  788. [11/8/2018, 12:26 PM]
  789. The Prince:
  790. Don't attack into a riposte lol
  791. The lockout isn't so bad that you can't parry most of the time
  792.  
  793. [11/8/2018, 12:26 PM]
  794. t.y.next:
  795. im saying that if you were attacking some guy
  796. and then a teammate happens to attack as well and his attack is like 100ms faster
  797. the maul parries your teammate
  798. and suddenly you've died
  799. it's not about nto attacking into riposte
  800. you couldn't do anything to prevent it
  801.  
  802. [11/8/2018, 12:27 PM]
  803. The Prince:
  804. Yeah I agree those scenarios suck ass
  805.  
  806. [11/8/2018, 12:27 PM]
  807. t.y.next:
  808. your teammate fuced you
  809. which isnt a hbuge problem on comp level
  810. but more for noob level
  811. it's going to happen a lot man
  812.  
  813. [11/8/2018, 12:27 PM]
  814. The Prince:
  815. Those scenarios though
  816. are fairly rare, in my experience
  817. They do happen
  818. But not a lot
  819.  
  820. [11/8/2018, 12:28 PM]
  821. t.y.next:
  822. yeah im not sure how often they happen as i dont really pub you know
  823. but i imagine in 32vs32
  824. it'd happen frequently enough to make noobs angry
  825. here's a little luxury point about archers:
  826. ap is soooooooo nice vs archers and proj in general
  827. trades you're still taking significant damage
  828.  
  829. [11/8/2018, 12:29 PM]
  830. The Prince:
  831. IDK about that. If you get shot with a longbow in the chest with t3 armor + hyper armor
  832. You're likely taking like...
  833. 10 or less damage
  834. Maybe not. Let's say like LB damage to t3 chest is 35
  835.  
  836. [11/8/2018, 12:30 PM]
  837. t.y.next:
  838. that's fair, but lets say you're getting shot by 2 archers at once
  839. you're almost taking full damage essentially
  840. proj do a lot as well
  841. its not a huge thing, i thnk
  842. it's just a luxury of ap
  843.  
  844. [11/8/2018, 12:31 PM]
  845. The Prince:
  846. It's a little luxury, sure.
  847. Since no projectiles flinch anymore
  848. If they still did
  849. God that would be a nightmare for AP
  850. Anyway
  851. I'm trying to help you lol
  852. Look at the private feedback channel
  853. it's now a debate on trades vs AP
  854. Because of you
  855. And you're going to lose that debate like every time
  856. You should've framed it as
  857. "Let's get rid of trades, here's why."
  858. That could've actually gone somewhere
  859. But your dumb little brain didn't think that far ahead I guess because you don't reason very well
  860.  
  861. [11/8/2018, 12:33 PM]
  862. t.y.next:
  863. nah i just know how crush thinks
  864. and he wouldnt accept "lets remove trades"
  865. and i didnt start this btw
  866. it was stouty
  867. whatevers going on in private feedback
  868.  
  869. [11/8/2018, 12:33 PM]
  870. The Prince:
  871. I think it was actually Blink
  872. which was why Giru was shitting on him
  873. I don't think anyone wants to answer my damn question lol
  874.  
  875. [11/8/2018, 12:37 PM]
  876. t.y.next:
  877. he's probably casting it aside as too retarded
  878. i told you
  879. he can't think
  880. outside of his realm
  881. he casts it off as radical
  882.  
  883. [11/8/2018, 12:38 PM]
  884. The Prince:
  885. niggardly crush
  886. Cranium Crush
  887.  
  888. [11/8/2018, 12:38 PM]
  889. t.y.next:
  890. lol
  891.  
  892. [11/8/2018, 12:38 PM]
  893. The Prince:
  894. Trying to think of what Trump would call him
  895. Caveman Crush
  896. Damn dude, it's like, I spam the chat, but it has no effect. The conversation is still AP vs Trades
  897. It's the wrong conversation
  898. honestly
  899.  
  900. [11/8/2018, 12:40 PM]
  901. t.y.next:
  902. lol
  903.  
  904. [11/8/2018, 12:41 PM]
  905. The Prince:
  906. fuck it lol I'm not gonna bother
  907. stupid community
  908.  
  909. [11/8/2018, 12:42 PM]
  910. t.y.next:
  911. ahahaha
  912.  
  913. [11/8/2018, 12:42 PM]
  914. The Prince:
  915. Sad!
  916.  
  917. [11/8/2018, 12:42 PM]
  918. t.y.next:
  919. Sad!
  920.  
  921. [11/8/2018, 12:42 PM]
  922. The Prince:
  923. Maybe explain to Boner what I've said to you
  924. and consider changing the argument around
  925.  
  926. [11/8/2018, 12:43 PM]
  927. t.y.next:
  928. oh he thinks it wouldn't be a bad idea either
  929. he already knows of it
  930. but he says the game's timings aren't friendly enough for the idea to work
  931. which is probably true
  932.  
  933. [11/8/2018, 12:43 PM]
  934. The Prince:
  935. Of having no trade or AP?
  936.  
  937. [11/8/2018, 12:43 PM]
  938. t.y.next:
  939. ye
  940.  
  941. [11/8/2018, 12:43 PM]
  942. The Prince:
  943. That's a problem with the game's timings, tbh
  944. Shouldn't need to add artificial mechanic as a bandaid fix
  945. Mordhau is almost like a boat with like 30 different massive holes in it
  946.  
  947. [11/8/2018, 12:44 PM]
  948. t.y.next:
  949. and yet it sails still
  950.  
  951. [11/8/2018, 12:44 PM]
  952. The Prince:
  953. With a bunch of bandaids on the holes, making it so the ship doesn't sink
  954. But the bandaids themselves are somehow acidic and creating more holes
  955. The solution?
  956. ADD MORE BANDAIDS!!!
  957. Eventually the boat is going to be made of fucking bandaids
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