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  1. Session Start: Sun Nov 14 18:32:28 2010
  2. Session Ident: #letsbefriends
  3. 03[18:32] * Now talking in #letsbefriends
  4. [18:32] <@CGG> So it is either C outnumbers a, or a ounumbers c, or they are equal
  5. 01[18:32] <flogger> hi
  6. [18:32] <@CGG> hello
  7. [18:32] <@Deana> hiya mr flogger
  8. [18:33] <@CGG> okay so can you both explain your sides?
  9. [18:33] <@CGG> I dunno who should go first
  10. [18:33] <@Cheese> deana
  11. [18:33] <@Deana> we agree'd to war for a cf way back in yr 4 or so?
  12. [18:34] <@Cheese> yes, so other deals along the same lines but without a war clause were made, as a late age big war is always fun
  13. [18:34] <@Deana> the agreement included a bit of rhetoric trickery concerning how this war would start
  14. 01[18:34] <flogger> rhetoric trickery? it seemed fairly straightforward
  15. [18:34] <@Deana> which fine, ok, cgg has said it does kinna read that way, although it was not our intent
  16. [18:35] <@AquaSeaFoam> so from what i've seen, there seems to be some disagreement about the terms of this arranged war. Pulse feels it shoudl start on pulses timing and pulse shoudl get the button allowing them to chain sanc with sanc's army home. Sanc wants to agree to a more convienient start time and wants to ahve a fair war start, not all pulse having the advantage there
  17. 01[18:35] <flogger> "you hit us 4x in aggro, we hit you 3x in aggro, and we have at it"
  18. [18:35] <@Deana> i heard you told megas you tricked aos
  19. 01[18:35] <flogger> logs?
  20. 01[18:35] <flogger> cause I have mine
  21. 01[18:36] <flogger> cheese, CGG, ASF, just stay on the sidelines to avoid the clutter for now, and let this convo happen
  22. [18:36] <@AquaSeaFoam> fromt he logs i thinkt he intend clearly looked to be to have a fair war in th future with flexible terms so as to be fair to both kds
  23. [18:36] <@CGG> agree with flogger
  24. [18:36] <@CGG> deana and flogger tlak first
  25. [18:36] <@Cheese> as you wish
  26. [18:36] <@Deana> we agree'd to arrange a time for said war in yr 8
  27. [18:37] <@AquaSeaFoam> however it also could be stated that flogger gave the impression of a fair war with flexible terms but slipped in some unfair clauses and managed to get them thruogh without objection based on aos thinking it was fair and flexible terms
  28. 01[18:37] <flogger> ASF - you yourself said you didn't see how it was unfair
  29. 01[18:37] <flogger> you want those logs as well?
  30. [18:37] <@AquaSeaFoam> but i think that sanc is willing to stick to those potentially unfair clauses if pulse will agree to not use them unfairly
  31. [18:37] <@AquaSeaFoam> i said that it could be unfair
  32. [18:37] <@Deana> then insolence hit flogger, and our soldier bombs were suspended and flogger approched us with a new deal on renegociating the time
  33. [18:37] <@AquaSeaFoam> if you used them unfairly
  34. [18:37] <@AquaSeaFoam> you also stated you would not use them too unfairly
  35. [18:38] <@AquaSeaFoam> but then refused to go fully to equal terms
  36. [18:38] <@AquaSeaFoam> due to sanc not communicating well enough
  37. 01[18:38] <flogger> <AquaSeaFoam> in a negotiated war, the appearance to me in the talk was to make terms that would be fair, not to give one kd an advantage
  38. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> you keep talkign about appearance
  39. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> "you hit us 4x, we hit you 3x"
  40. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> these are words, not appearances
  41. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> or inferences
  42. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> or innuendos
  43. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> they're terms
  44. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> that were agreed to
  45. 01[18:38] <flogger> <AquaSeaFoam> it was implied you'd then declare immediately after
  46. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> yes
  47. 01[18:38] <flogger> <AquaSeaFoam> is that your intent?
  48. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> yes
  49. 01[18:38] <flogger> <AquaSeaFoam> why would that be a big advantage for either kd?
  50. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> its not really
  51. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> its a race of clusterfuckedness
  52. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> as to whom can send out faster, with us with maybe a 5 second head start
  53. 01[18:38] <flogger> <AquaSeaFoam> well that seems fair as in the intent of the agreement. if you stalled the declare then declared suddenly when you knew when and they didnt
  54. 01[18:38] <flogger> <AquaSeaFoam> that could be an issue
  55. 01[18:38] <flogger> <AquaSeaFoam> that seems reasonable
  56. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> presumably we'd declare within 10 mins of knowing who sent out
  57. 01[18:38] <flogger> <flogger> assuming they anon'd
  58. [18:38] <@AquaSeaFoam> keep on pasting
  59. [18:38] <@AquaSeaFoam> tot he part about declaring at hc
  60. [18:38] <@Deana> [20:37] <&Megas> [11:02] <flogger> well I can't deny I didn't know what I was doing when I did our diplom
  61. [18:38] <@Deana> [20:37] <&Megas> [11:02] <flogger> aos may not have
  62. [18:39] <@Cheese> asf please, let flogger and deana speak for now
  63. 01[18:39] <flogger> so yes, I said that
  64. [18:39] <@AquaSeaFoam> well if flogger is pasting logs can we at least have him finish the rest of the logs before I shut up? =]
  65. 01[18:39] <flogger> I have no control of who sanc sends to do diplomacy, or their relative competency
  66. [18:39] <@Cheese> No, because your comments already have me wishing to speak as well, but I will wait until later. :p
  67. 01[18:40] <flogger> I have no idea what aos thought at the time of agreeing to what we agreed to
  68. [18:40] <@AquaSeaFoam> [15:42:28] <flogger> we'd have a slight advantage but how many seconds would you estimate go by before they know they're in war?
  69. [18:40] <@AquaSeaFoam> [15:42:51] <AquaSeaFoam> well i'd think you could agree to a declare exactly at the hc or something
  70. [18:40] <@AquaSeaFoam> [15:43:44] <flogger> I'm not that generous after waiting this long ;p
  71. [18:40] <@AquaSeaFoam> [15:44:09] <AquaSeaFoam> well, then i can see such things being sticking points :P
  72. 01[18:40] <flogger> basically ASF is saying I agree to tell them the exact second I plan on declaring
  73. [18:40] <@AquaSeaFoam> right, to have it equal
  74. [18:40] <@CGG> We know that pulse can do a wave in 1 minute
  75. [18:40] <@Cheese> I am seeing that deals can be broken based on the competence of those negotiating
  76. 01[18:41] <flogger> which the ENTIRE POINT of me arranging the war terms is because I know 2 orc kingdoms can't agree to arranged war terms, as somoene is turtled
  77. 01[18:41] <flogger> thats why I chose to avoid having this argument by just setting the war declare terms 2 months ago
  78. 01[18:41] <flogger> but now somehow they're in question
  79. [18:41] <@Deana> so, anyway, the time is the problem
  80. [18:41] <@AquaSeaFoam> we should prob have flogger paste the initial deal also
  81. 01[18:41] <flogger> I can do that
  82. [18:41] <@CGG> and then deana said it was renegotiated at some point
  83. [18:42] <@Deana> as flogger asked us to wait after he was hit by insolence
  84. [18:42] <@Deana> and we would discuss it later
  85. 01[18:42] <flogger> I can post every log I've had with anyone on this subject with ease and comfort
  86. [18:42] <@CGG> I hope we don't need every log.
  87. 01[18:43] <flogger> I spoke with dorje about insolence, fully imaginging sanc would want to go for me on Jan 1 YR9 when their CF expired
  88. [18:43] <@AquaSeaFoam> To me, the initial deal looked like more an agreeing in principle to a fair war with flexible fair terms later. the specific terms weren't agreed to by aos, more jsut a "sounds ok" type thing based ont he general intent and principle. I think sanc is still willing to stick to the intent, but flogger is stating that the specific details that he "tricked' aos into not objecting to must stand
  89. 01[18:43] <flogger> ASF - I laid out specific terms and he said yes
  90. 01[18:43] <flogger> he said "sounds ok" to everything I said
  91. [18:44] <@AquaSeaFoam> paste it
  92. 01[18:44] <flogger> and now you are saying "he said sounds ok to the previous line but not the line before that"
  93. [18:44] <@CGG> sounds ok is yes
  94. [18:44] <@CGG> [18:26] <Deana> [11:36] <flogger> [09:33] <flogger> no need to FW or anything or retal war, if you need a little more time or we do we'll just set the right date
  95. [18:44] <@CGG> [18:26] <Deana> [11:36] <flogger> [09:33] <flogger> you guys smack us 4x in aggro, we smack 3x in aggro and we just have it
  96. [18:44] <@CGG> [18:26] <Deana> [11:36] <flogger> [09:37] <flogger> as for the bug, if we can't hit after 2 more ticks, we'll just make a couple doubles to make up for it. and if we can't hit in like 7 more ticks then we'll talk again
  97. [18:44] <@CGG> [18:26] <Deana> [11:36] <flogger> [09:38] <flogger> sound reasonable?
  98. [18:44] <@CGG> [18:26] <Deana> [11:36] <flogger> [09:38] <Aos> sounds okey
  99. [18:44] <@AquaSeaFoam> i don't get that impressionw hen i read it before
  100. 01[18:44] <flogger> which is utterly ridiculous
  101. 01[18:44] <flogger> CGG
  102. [18:44] <@CGG> flogger
  103. 01[18:44] <flogger> their point is I said "you guys smack us 4x in aggro we smack 3x in aggro and have at it"
  104. 01[18:44] <flogger> then "as for the bug, if we can't hit after 2 more ticks...."
  105. [18:45] <@CGG> right
  106. 01[18:45] <flogger> then I said "sounds reasonable"
  107. [18:45] <@CGG> If I was going to say no to something, and yes to something else
  108. [18:45] <@CGG> I would say no at some point
  109. [18:45] <@AquaSeaFoam> and he didn't respond tot hat until you talekd about the bug and then prompted him with "sound reasonable"
  110. [18:45] <@CGG> "as for" is a continuation of the previous statement
  111. [18:45] <@CGG> and then he said yes
  112. 01[18:45] <flogger> both ASF and deana read that as agreeing to what I said at 9:37
  113. [18:45] <@CGG> he never said no
  114. 01[18:45] <flogger> and ignoring what I said at 9:33
  115. [18:45] <@Cheese> If sanc leaders read over this and didnt understand meaning why wouldnt they attempt to clarify it in the last month?
  116. [18:45] <@AquaSeaFoam> i agree aos never objected
  117. [18:45] <@AquaSeaFoam> and agreed tot he principle of warring laer
  118. [18:46] <@AquaSeaFoam> i dont' think he agreed to have finalized set in stone details like giving pulse first wave in war with sanc's troops home
  119. [18:46] <@CGG> If he disagreed then why didn't he say that?
  120. [18:46] <@AquaSeaFoam> i think that it was presented as a "fair war" type thing with gentlemans terms like "no need to fw, we can be fair on start date" etc
  121. [18:46] <@Deana> i just saw it actually Cheese, i was informed that aos did not agree all age
  122. 01[18:46] <flogger> both ASF and deana in the past 24h hours have said that they don't think AOS agreed to my "you smack us 4x in aggro, we smack 3x in aggro" line and instead were agrring to my next line
  123. [18:46] <@AquaSeaFoam> he didn't disagree witha fair gentlemans type war
  124. [18:46] <@AquaSeaFoam> sanc stilla grees with that
  125. [18:47] <@CGG> okay
  126. [18:47] <@CGG> So the issues in dispute are
  127. [18:47] <@CGG> 1) how it starts
  128. [18:47] <@CGG> 2) when it starts
  129. [18:47] <@CGG> correct?
  130. [18:47] <@AquaSeaFoam> yep
  131. [18:47] <@Deana> yes
  132. [18:47] <@CGG> flogger?
  133. 01[18:47] <flogger> whereas from my perspective, I have an entire log of AoS saying nothing but "yes sounds reasonable" which to me means he agreed to everything I said
  134. [18:47] <@Cheese> 3) if all deals are open to abs scrutiny/interpretation
  135. 01[18:47] <flogger> but yes, I agree with 1,2
  136. [18:47] <@Deana> i'd like another week, due to the set back we got due to pulse themselves getting our provinces suspended
  137. [18:48] <@CGG> So, how does pulse want 1 and 2 to happen, and what does sanc want them to be?
  138. [18:48] <@AquaSeaFoam> first, this isn't an abs deal and abs is only "involved" because your alliance made it out to be some sort of alliance deal
  139. 01[18:48] <flogger> <flogger> 01[09:32] <flogger> if they aren't in range in YR9 or one kd is in a conflict
  140. 01[18:48] <flogger> <flogger> 01[09:33] <flogger> obviously it gets pushed back until the earliest possible time
  141. 01[18:48] <flogger> <flogger> [09:33] <Aos> ofc
  142. 01[18:48] <flogger> <flogger> [09:33] <Aos> im looking forward to it =)
  143. 01[18:48] <flogger> <flogger> 01[09:33] <flogger> no need to FW or anything or retal war, if you need a little more time or we do we'll just set the right date
  144. 01[18:48] <flogger> <flogger> 01[09:33] <flogger> you guys smack us 4x in aggro, we smack 3x in aggro and we just have it
  145. 01[18:48] <flogger> <flogger> 01[09:37] <flogger> as for the bug, if we can't hit after 2 more ticks, we'll just make a couple doubles to make up for it. and if we can't hit in like 7 more ticks then we'll talk again
  146. 01[18:48] <flogger> <flogger> 01[09:38] <flogger> sound reasonable?
  147. 01[18:48] <flogger> <flogger> [09:38] <Aos> sounds okey
  148. 01[18:48] <flogger> <Deana> i see 4 minutes passed
  149. 01[18:48] <flogger> <Deana> ignored
  150. 01[18:48] <flogger> <Deana> although yeah, you can toss it up and it reads like he said ok
  151. [18:48] <@Cheese> To fight Old School? I dont think so
  152. 01[18:49] <flogger> so to me, we're arguing over whether he agreed to my 9:33 line
  153. 01[18:49] <flogger> which from me is just flat out absurd
  154. [18:50] <@CGG> <@CGG> So, how does pulse want 1 and 2 to happen, and what does sanc want them to be?
  155. [18:50] <@Deana> id like to start with 2 days of retal war sometime mid week 10
  156. [18:50] <@AquaSeaFoam> i think it looks like aos agreed in principle to a "gentlemans" fair war later and did not specifically see a problem with the start terms but the deal gave the impression that the exact detals were flexible so as to be fair to both dks
  157. [18:50] <@Deana> but im willing to renegociate that
  158. [18:50] <@AquaSeaFoam> so yes it's fair to argue that flogger tricked him intoa bad deal without him knowing it was bad
  159. [18:51] <@CGG> What was the original date established? And was was the renegotaited date?
  160. [18:51] <@Cheese> I dont understand how thats a trick
  161. 01[18:51] <flogger> 1) I indicated I'd be somewhat flexible on this to megas, but now that they've ignored me and since given OS and fratz notice I'm much less flexible, for ANY give on my part they need to re-institute notice with both OS and fratz
  162. [18:51] <@AquaSeaFoam> but it sure seems like the intent was to have a fair gentleman's type agreement war when convienient for both dks
  163. [18:51] <@Cheese> if he doesnt understand what hes negotiating, he shouldnt negotiate
  164. [18:51] <@CGG> It's not a trick. It was either AOS being blind, agreeing to something by mistake, or trying to avoid answering.
  165. [18:51] <@Deana> the original date a was sometime yr 9 unless one kd is in a conflict or if we need a little more time
  166. 01[18:52] <flogger> and it also said we'd war at the earliest possible time
  167. [18:52] <@CGG> So the earliest possible time, in year 9
  168. 01[18:52] <flogger> its not the earliest possible time if in YR9 you give notice to dodge
  169. 01[18:52] <flogger> that was said cause your CFs with the server expired YR8
  170. [18:52] <@Cheese> Indeed, time doesnt include, oh hey, i wanna go hit Fratzia now, bbl
  171. 01[18:52] <flogger> and if you were in one from that it was fair game
  172. [18:52] <@Deana> you asked for a dodge after insolence hit you
  173. 01[18:52] <flogger> I didn't ask for a dodge
  174. [18:52] <@CGG> thats because someone hit him
  175. [18:52] <@CGG> not cause he hit someone else
  176. 01[18:53] <flogger> I told dorje "lets arrange our war" which I assumed was at YR9
  177. 01[18:53] <flogger> Jan 1 YR9
  178. 01[18:53] <flogger> dorje was the one who said he wanted more time
  179. [18:53] <@AquaSeaFoam> i think it was a brilliant trick. extremely well played to offer a fair flexible war in one line with dates that can be changed as both dks need, then the very next line offer other terms that seem to be fair on the surface and don't seem to be fixed in stone, then when no specific acceptance or response is given, change the topic, ask if ti seems reasonable, and get a "sounds ok" out of it
  180. 01[18:53] <flogger> I was more than willing to war Jan 1 YR9 with my bank at a disadvantage
  181. 01[18:53] <flogger> do you want my logs with dorje?
  182. [18:53] <@AquaSeaFoam> that is brilliant trickery to the extent it hink that some of ti was luck more than pure brilliance ;)
  183. [18:53] <@AquaSeaFoam> no offense flogger
  184. 01[18:53] <flogger> well I'm the best
  185. 01[18:54] <flogger> what do you want from me?
  186. [18:54] <@Cheese> Pretty sure you did just mean to offend him, but ok
  187. 01[18:54] <flogger> for me to brag about how good I am?
  188. [18:54] <@AquaSeaFoam> flogger and i go way back cheese :P
  189. [18:54] <@Cheese> So do we, but things change
  190. 01[18:54] <flogger> the fact of the matter is at this point in time, neither kd "needs more time"
  191. 01[18:55] <flogger> neither kd has been in a conflict in a month
  192. 01[18:55] <flogger> if they need an extra day or two for a few provinces to get ready we've said repeatadly they could have them
  193. [18:55] <@Deana> we werent able to, due to the insolence mess
  194. [18:55] <@AquaSeaFoam> sanc could use more time
  195. 01[18:55] <flogger> I asked megas "how much time do your provinces need"
  196. 01[18:55] <flogger> he said "7 days"
  197. 01[18:55] <flogger> I said "7 days is May 1st"
  198. 01[18:56] <flogger> "he said, that sounds good, let me double check"
  199. 01[18:56] <flogger> then I haven't heard from him
  200. 01[18:56] <flogger> do you want those logs?cause I know I posted them to ASF
  201. [18:56] <@AquaSeaFoam> as you know, sanc had their soldier pooled vm provs suspended and they therefore overpop'd and hurt their provs and the overall kds also. in addition it's known that sanc's monarch is currently away for a few days which obviously makes the timing not so great for them too
  202. 01[18:56] <flogger> how fucking long does it take to draft?
  203. 01[18:56] <flogger> I was fully ready in 24h after inso hit me?
  204. [18:56] <@AquaSeaFoam> flogger, he also said he'd check witht he players and get back to you
  205. 01[18:56] <flogger> and he didn't get back to me
  206. [18:56] <@Cheese> All I know is in the meanwhile Sanc plans to fight other Mexican kds
  207. [18:56] <@AquaSeaFoam> he checked with them, it wasn't good, then he didn't get back to you
  208. 01[18:56] <flogger> that's why we're here
  209. [18:56] <@CGG> <CGG> More time can probably get worked out, if they're not hitting someone in between.
  210. [18:56] <@CGG> And if its a reasonable amount of time
  211. [18:57] <@AquaSeaFoam> ya i agree sanc communication hasn't been so good
  212. 01[18:57] <flogger> all pulse wants is a date
  213. 01[18:57] <flogger> I don't care if its may 1
  214. 01[18:57] <flogger> june 1, whatever
  215. 01[18:57] <flogger> you're VASTLY overestimating how screwed you were by not having a soldier stock
  216. 01[18:57] <flogger> pulse was ready in 48
  217. [18:57] <@CGG> Agree to a date, and don't wave someone in between, and we will all agree.
  218. 01[18:57] <flogger> we have calculators that can tell your provinces how long it takes to draft if you want them
  219. 01[18:57] <flogger> my bank was ready in 24h
  220. [18:58] <@CGG> you can draft all your solds in like 30 hours
  221. 01[18:58] <flogger> exactly
  222. 01[18:58] <flogger> and we started discussing this like 5 days ago
  223. 01[18:58] <flogger> and I asked megas how long he'd need
  224. 01[18:58] <flogger> and he said his provinces needed 7 days
  225. [18:58] <@AquaSeaFoam> if you have plenty gc, that's true flogger
  226. [18:58] <@AquaSeaFoam> if you're short on gc, it can hurt
  227. 01[18:58] <flogger> sanc has been pumping for a month without interference
  228. 01[18:58] <flogger> they're short on GC?
  229. [18:58] <@AquaSeaFoam> i think many are
  230. [18:59] <@Deana> the rest of the kingdom was fine, two provinces were farms, and yeah they are almost fixed, they spent 5 days suspended while ya'll wait and pump
  231. 01[18:59] <flogger> well they spent 3 days suspended first off
  232. 01[18:59] <flogger> 5 days was the initial suspension
  233. 01[18:59] <flogger> it got reduced to 3
  234. 01[18:59] <flogger> as dorje told me
  235. [18:59] <@Cheese> and flogger got hit by insolence, shit happens hes still ready to go
  236. [18:59] <@AquaSeaFoam> insolence also gave notice to sanc in that time
  237. [18:59] <@Deana> the suspensions were a result of something pulse did
  238. 01[19:00] <flogger> the sheer notion that 2 random orcs only getting 7 days to prep compared to my bank losing 400 mil GC is ridiculous
  239. 01[19:00] <flogger> I was 8k acres larger than your bank, and now we're even in size
  240. [19:00] <@Cheese> And getting notice is worse then getting hit?
  241. [19:00] <@CGG> <flogger> all pulse wants is a date
  242. [19:00] <@CGG>  <flogger> all pulse wants is a date
  243. [19:00] <@AquaSeaFoam> a date and then sanc also wants fair start terms
  244. [19:00] <@CGG> And if you're waving someone else, then you are ready.
  245. [19:01] <@AquaSeaFoam> i think sanc will do the terms you previously specified if you will also agree on your declaration timing to be equal for both
  246. 01[19:01] <flogger> deana- I'll address this: I had no clue about pulse being responsible for suspensions
  247. 01[19:01] <flogger> I found out 2 days ago, and yes I disapproved greatly as I didn't give 2 shits about you having soldiers stocked
  248. 01[19:03] <flogger> so I'll fully own up to our kd reporting yours, I had no fucking idea we did it, I wouldn't have done it myself, and am mad they did it
  249. [19:04] <@AquaSeaFoam> ok, so in light of this, you agree that you can both work out a date that sanc agrees they can be ready?
  250. [19:04] <@AquaSeaFoam> and will you also be willing to declare at a specified time?
  251. 01[19:04] <flogger> yes, we have always agreed we can let sanc be ready
  252. [19:04] <@Deana> they are telling us we cant hit os or fratzia
  253. [19:04] <@Deana> because we have a war arranged with pulse
  254. [19:04] <@Cheese> If your ready to hit someone else your ready to war pulse
  255. 01[19:04] <flogger> I specifically asked them how long they needed to be ready and megas told me and I said lets do it then
  256. 01[19:05] <flogger> the war terms should be as we agreed all along
  257. 01[19:05] <flogger> they hit us 4x in aggro, we hit them 3x in aggro
  258. 01[19:05] <flogger> we declare shortly thereafter
  259. 01[19:07] <flogger> but seriously it doesn't put you back 2 weeks losing soldier stocks
  260. 01[19:07] <flogger> my bank was 100% unprepared and broke inso in 24h
  261. 01[19:07] <flogger> as CGG said, it takes 30h to draft whatever soldiers you need
  262. [19:07] <@CGG> and they sohuldn't have lost actual military
  263. [19:07] <@CGG> cause the regular soldiers should leave first
  264. [19:08] <@Deana> just soldiers, 50 mil in tb worth
  265. 01[19:08] <flogger> I can't be responsible for sanc not having enough GC after a 6 week pump
  266. 01[19:08] <flogger> thats ridiculous
  267. 01[19:08] <flogger> those TWO provinces are short on GC
  268. 01[19:08] <flogger> the rest of the kd isn't
  269. 01[19:08] <flogger> and I asked megas how long it'd take those TWO provinces to get teh GC
  270. 01[19:08] <flogger> and he said 7 days
  271. 01[19:08] <flogger> which would be May 1st
  272. 01[19:08] <flogger> and megas asked those TWO provinces how long it'd take
  273. 01[19:08] <flogger> and they told him 7 days
  274. 01[19:09] <flogger> I could care less if they were wrong and it was 8 or 9 days and the war date was pushed back a day
  275. 01[19:09] <flogger> but to ignore us on when the war occurred, and give notice to OS and fratz in what we presume is an attempt to get hostile so they can dodge us is unaccaptable
  276. [19:09] <@Cheese> And now, just as with the initial deal, Sanc is deciding that is no longer acceptable? This is true?
  277. 01[19:09] <flogger> which si why the notices with OS and fratz need to be back in place
  278. [19:10] <@Cheese> Who should we neogtiate with in Sanc? for future reference, cause this is just becoming annoying to the point of aggrevation
  279. 01[19:10] <flogger> and like I said, I'm sure we can get fratz and and OS to agree to give sanc plenty of time to recover so not to be vultured
  280. [19:10] <@Deana> me, aos and allanon have been fired
  281. [19:11] <@Cheese> So megas deal is OK then?
  282. [19:11] <@Cheese> or is he fired too
  283. [19:11] <@Deana> although im kinna slow ;) and when you talk a whole lot at once i get lost
  284. [19:11] <@Deana> so reading up
  285. [19:14] <@Cheese> ...
  286. [19:14] <@Deana> you need time to train up to awar us anyway, patience
  287. [19:15] <@Deana> so, we have to let pulse declare war on us and chain us all home and if we want to hit someone else who has no military cause pulse is protecting them we will get gb'd
  288. [19:15] <@Cheese> I have made no threats, done nothing to derail any talks
  289. [19:15] <@Cheese> Dont put words in my mouth, if you dont want me here I will gladly leave
  290. [19:15] <@AquaSeaFoam> [18:36:48] <flogger> <flogger> how does may 1 sound? I think we kinda wana raze inso some
  291. [19:15] <@AquaSeaFoam> [18:36:50] <flogger> <Megas> 4-5 days
  292. [19:15] <@AquaSeaFoam> [18:36:52] <flogger> <Megas> yeah may would be ideal
  293. [19:15] <@AquaSeaFoam> [18:36:53] <flogger> <Megas> although i can tell you exactly after i talk to them
  294. [19:15] <@AquaSeaFoam> [18:36:53] <flogger> <Megas> but it was 7 days they said when they got out of suspension
  295. [19:15] <@AquaSeaFoam> that was the "second deal"
  296. [19:16] <@CGG> how many days has it been since htey were unsuspended?
  297. [19:16] <@AquaSeaFoam> basically megas said he thoguht may would be fien, bu he'd talkt o the players and get back to flogger, then he never got back to flogger
  298. [19:17] <@Deana> does it matter, your possition is if we are ready to hit a smaller weak kd, we are ready to war pulse
  299. [19:17] <@Deana> right?
  300. [19:18] <@AquaSeaFoam> flogger said that though cheese
  301. 01[19:18] <flogger> CGG - 7 days would be May 1st
  302. [19:18] <@Cheese> I speak for myself, no one else does
  303. 01[19:18] <flogger> which is why I thought I was offerring them exactly what they said they needed
  304. [19:19] <@AquaSeaFoam> i don't think deana said you said it though
  305. 01[19:19] <flogger> deana - our position is you agreed to fight us at the earliest possible time in YR9
  306. 01[19:19] <flogger> its Yr9
  307. 01[19:19] <flogger> you can't just up and decide to fight fratz
  308. 01[19:19] <flogger> you could have in Yr8, as your CF's expired with the rest of the server in YR8
  309. [19:19] <@Deana> pushed back you said, not pushed forward
  310. [19:19] <@Deana> and our provinces were suspended then
  311. [19:20] <@AquaSeaFoam> due to pulse ;)
  312. 01[19:20] <flogger> seriously, these provinces being suspended don't slow you down more than 30 hours
  313. 01[19:20] <flogger> you act as if 2 soldier bank getting suspended slow you down 14 days
  314. 01[19:20] <flogger> which is absolutely ridiculous
  315. [19:20] <@AquaSeaFoam> that depends on if you want to pick a fight with two provs suspended and looking like complete farms
  316. [19:20] <@Deana> [11:20] <flogger> if you wanted a war elsewhere, didn't your CFs with everyone else expire YR8, thats why we arranged it for YR9 so you'd have time to fight whomever
  317. [19:20] <@Deana> [11:21] <Deana> yeah, only our provinces got screwed up, insolence hit you, and all plans got put on hold
  318. 01[19:21] <flogger> your provinces got suspended like really really late in YR8, right?
  319. [19:21] <@Deana> when you got hit
  320. [19:21] <@Deana> it was like within that hour
  321. [19:22] <@CGG> I still blame insolence
  322. [19:22] <@CGG> random reports from pulse, vs insolence recruiting people to report
  323. [19:22] <@CGG> and then the timing
  324. [19:22] <@CGG> right after flogger got hit and insolence gave you n otice
  325. [19:22] <@CGG> BAM suspension
  326. 01[19:23] <flogger> ok, so yeah that was early in YR8
  327. 01[19:24] <flogger> Jan 23rd YR8
  328. [19:24] <@CGG> Deana, what makes sanc unready?
  329. [19:24] <@Deana> need more land
  330. [19:24] <@CGG> specifically
  331. [19:24] <@CGG> lol
  332. [19:24] <@Deana> well :/
  333. 01[19:24] <flogger> your bank was 8k behind mine before inso happenned and now we're the same size and you want more land ;p
  334. [19:25] <@CGG> I don't think more land is a good answer
  335. [19:25] <@Deana> it is the answer though
  336. [19:25] <@Deana> and why we wanted to wave others before fighting pulse
  337. [19:25] <@Deana> in yr 8
  338. [19:25] <@Deana> only we couldnt
  339. 01[19:25] <flogger> how does fighting others make y ou more prepared for pulse
  340. 01[19:26] <flogger> it seems like you'd be less prepared after that
  341. [19:26] <@Deana> we are tacticians, but yeah we would have a split to fix i assume
  342. [19:27] <@Deana> mostly it was to get land on our bank i guess, and true enough the hits on you by insolence made that not as needed i guess
  343. 01[19:27] <flogger> yeah, land on your bank doesn't compare to the disadvantages of having your bank convert a week earlier
  344. 01[19:28] <flogger> adding land on your bank while I was pumping just gives me more to farm
  345. 01[19:28] <flogger> I was the #1 bank with the most GC stocks by far, and one convert fucked me fairly significantly for future bank fights
  346. 01[19:29] <flogger> banks need at least 2 weeks to prep in-between bank fights
  347. 01[19:29] <flogger> which is also why giving notice to OS/fratz makes no sense
  348. 01[19:29] <flogger> if your intentions were to war us and just force them to train
  349. [19:30] <@Deana> they dont have military
  350. 01[19:30] <flogger> we lose 30k leets and 20k dspecs every hit traded
  351. 01[19:30] <flogger> after 2 days of trading hits your bank won't be ready to fight another bank
  352. [19:30] <@CGG> well, I don't think they'd really be...
  353. [19:30] <@CGG> "trading hits" exactly
  354. 01[19:31] <flogger> you get teh dspecs back in spec creds, but you're going to be down 200-300 mil GC from elites/build costs just from trading hits
  355. [19:31] <@CGG> They'd be... um... taking the acres
  356. 01[19:31] <flogger> for example I was very happy your bank hit inso for 800a in exchange for 30k leets lost
  357. 03[19:31] * Proteus (nN@absalom-63691366.c3-0.eas-ubr9.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) has joined #letsbefriends
  358. [19:34] <@CGG> i wanted 800 acres
  359. [19:34] <@CGG> assholes
  360. 02[19:38] * Proteus (nN@absalom-63691366.c3-0.eas-ubr9.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Quit: 12( www.nnscript.com 12:: NoNameScript 4.21 12:: www.esnation.com 12))
  361. [19:39] <@CGG> okay we need a solution
  362. [19:39] <@Deana> yeah
  363. 03[19:39] * Ryan (dorje@absalom-31F7172.pk.shawcable.net) has joined #letsbefriends
  364. [19:40] <Ryan> deana I need a sandwhich
  365. [19:40] <Ryan> get back in there
  366. 03[19:40] * Ryan (dorje@absalom-31F7172.pk.shawcable.net) has left #letsbefriends
  367. 03[19:40] * CGG sets mode: +i
  368. [19:40] <@Deana> ^ showed my council logs
  369. [19:40] <@Deana> thanks
  370. [19:40] <@CGG> What do you need to be prepared other than more land?
  371. 03[19:40] * MegasX (x@79FC2D16.6DD6E786.EBB20F19.IP) has joined #letsbefriends
  372. 01[19:46] <flogger> <@CGG> What do you need to be prepared other than more land?
  373. 01[19:46] <flogger> I asked megas and he said he needed to May 1st, as the two suspended provs needed 7 days, which was may 1st
  374. [19:46] <MegasX> i never agreed
  375. [19:46] <MegasX> clearly
  376. [19:46] <MegasX> i said i need to ask
  377. [19:47] <MegasX> want logs again?
  378. 03[19:47] * Ryan (dorje@absalom-31F7172.pk.shawcable.net) has joined #letsbefriends
  379. [19:47] <Ryan> this sitll active?
  380. [19:47] <@Cheese> And youd get back to him 24 hours ago? Hows that working out?
  381. [19:47] <MegasX> yes
  382. [19:47] <@Deana> he claims he isnt going to troll ^ i seriously dont like feeling bullied here
  383. [19:47] <Ryan> pause.
  384. [19:47] <@CGG> do you guys have access to join any channel regardless of invite or something?
  385. [19:47] <Ryan> I'd like to go back to where aos says "sounds okey"
  386. [19:48] <Ryan> the phrase sounds okey does not imply full agreeance
  387. [19:48] <Ryan> <Ryan> for example
  388. [19:48] <Ryan> <Ryan> "hey kevin, lets go to mexico this summer it will cost 500 dollars on a cruiseship if we drive there"
  389. [19:48] <Ryan> <Ryan> kevin says "sounds okay"
  390. [19:48] <Ryan> <Ryan> doesnt mean hes coming
  391. [19:48] <@AquaSeaFoam> i think we're past this ryan and trying to figure out detaisl that will work now
  392. [19:48] <Ryan> give me a sec
  393. [19:48] <Ryan> now case 2
  394. [19:49] <Ryan> we are all good players
  395. [19:49] <Ryan> now why would aos agree to terms like that officially
  396. [19:49] <Ryan> considering we are tact and they are warrior?
  397. 01[19:49] <flogger> I know you never agreed megas
  398. 01[19:49] <flogger> you agreed to talk to them and get back to me within 24h
  399. 01[19:49] <flogger> and had you said "we need another 2 days" I woulda said "fine"
  400. [19:49] <Ryan> our advantage is the oow stuff prior to war
  401. [19:50] <Ryan> jumping into war vs bigger warriors = fail
  402. [19:50] <Ryan> anybody who has played utopia for awhile is aware of that
  403. 01[19:50] <flogger> but if you don't get back to me within 24h, and 48h pass, and you give OS and fratz notice after 48h
  404. 01[19:50] <flogger> I have a problem with that
  405. 01[19:50] <flogger> ryan, we we were warriors when you made the deal in YR4
  406. 01[19:50] <flogger> we didn't randomly get to change our personality
  407. [19:50] <Ryan> yes but then we never agreed to how war would start
  408. 01[19:50] <flogger> you exchanged a war for getting a free bank
  409. [19:50] <Ryan> yes we agreed to war
  410. 01[19:50] <flogger> you guys wanted a bank
  411. 01[19:50] <flogger> that we could hit twenty times
  412. 01[19:50] <flogger> and we gave it to you
  413. 01[19:51] <flogger> and now its the same size as me
  414. [19:51] <Ryan> that's great, we know we agreed to war
  415. 01[19:51] <flogger> who was the #1 bank at the time
  416. [19:51] <Ryan> but we never agreed to how the war would start
  417. [19:51] <MegasX> well i tried to sort out things with ppl and they wasnt sorted so i couldnt back to you
  418. [19:51] <Ryan> now in the aftermath of that
  419. [19:51] <MegasX> and we arent saying we dont want war
  420. 01[19:52] <flogger> well it would have been better to say "trying to get ahold of them" instead of not responding when you said you'd message me on either IRC or in-game if I wasn't on IRC, and then proceed to give notice to others, eh megas?
  421. 01[19:52] <flogger> and ryan, aos clearly agreed to how the war would start
  422. 01[19:52] <flogger> by anyone whose impartial's viewpoint
  423. [19:52] <Ryan> giving notice to others doesnt precedent we are going to wave them
  424. [19:52] <Ryan> like I said before
  425. [19:52] <Ryan> we dont want them pumping during our conflict
  426. 01[19:52] <flogger> whether he communiciated that to the rest of the council isn't my concern
  427. [19:53] <Ryan> nor can we give them notice during our conflict
  428. 01[19:53] <flogger> well you lost that ability to force them to train by dodging me
  429. 01[19:53] <flogger> quite frankly
  430. [19:53] <@CGG> listen we already discussed this stuff, we don't need more people coming and restarting the convo
  431. [19:53] <Ryan> your original convo is biased and wrong
  432. [19:53] <@CGG> You have representatives present to discuss it
  433. 01[19:54] <flogger> I'm loving how "sounds okay" doesn't mean "yes I agree to what you said"
  434. 01[19:54] <flogger> this is a fun conversation
  435. [19:54] <MegasX> why would we be forced to war you when it suits you? original deal stated we would discuss it in yr8
  436. [19:54] <Ryan> it doesnt
  437. [19:54] <Ryan> then you guys trying to bully us
  438. [19:54] <Ryan> threatening GB
  439. [19:54] <Ryan> how does that help?
  440. 01[19:54] <flogger> megas - it suits both of us, neither of us has been in a conflict for over 4 weeks
  441. 01[19:54] <flogger> except for my bank
  442. 01[19:55] <flogger> which only gives you an advantage
  443. [19:55] <Ryan> insolence breaking your deal was a unforseeable circumstance
  444. 01[19:55] <flogger> yes, and it did nothing but hurt me
  445. 01[19:55] <flogger> which shouldn't affect you
  446. 01[19:55] <flogger> I was 8k acres larger than you and now my bank is the same size as yours
  447. [19:55] <Ryan> can that be used against us?
  448. [19:55] <Ryan> no.
  449. 01[19:56] <flogger> no, but its not an excuse for you not being ready either
  450. 01[19:56] <flogger> you've had 4 weeks of no conflict
  451. [19:56] <Ryan> so using that statement or something similar in court would bring up "objection"
  452. [19:56] <@Cheese> He isnt the one trying not to fight, you are
  453. 01[19:56] <flogger> our entire kd is completely out of pump mode
  454. 01[19:56] <flogger> look at our kd page
  455. [19:56] <Ryan> <dont have a problem with the war
  456. 01[19:56] <flogger> we have 4 provinces under 170 NWPA
  457. 01[19:57] <flogger> apparantly you have a problem with a war with the terms you agreed to however
  458. [19:57] <Ryan> I'm just here to state that how the war will start and when isnt decided
  459. [19:57] <@AquaSeaFoam> ok, Ryan, you've said your part, anything else you feel needs to be said, please ask dana to say it on your behalf, ok?
  460. [19:57] <Ryan> no terms on that were official
  461. [19:57] <@AquaSeaFoam> deana
  462. 01[19:57] <flogger> to claim him saying "sounds okey" isn't agreeing is fairly ridiculous
  463. [19:57] <Ryan> deana stepped away
  464. [19:57] <@Deana> im here
  465. [19:57] <Ryan> I;m representing now
  466. 01[19:58] <flogger> cheese, CGG can I get some backup on that?
  467. [19:58] <Ryan> <Ryan> for example
  468. [19:58] <Ryan> <Ryan> "hey kevin, lets go to mexico this summer it will cost 500 dollars on a cruiseship if we drive there"
  469. [19:58] <Ryan> <Ryan> kevin says "sounds okay"
  470. [19:58] <@CGG> We already discussed this
  471. [19:58] <@CGG> We don't need to rediscuss it
  472. [19:58] <@CGG> I don't know why new people have joined
  473. [19:58] <Ryan> that is not an official agreement
  474. 01[19:58] <flogger> for ryan humor me
  475. 03[19:58] * AquaSeaFoam sets mode: +o flogger
  476. [19:58] <@CGG> We didn't agree
  477. [19:58] <@CGG> We continued past it
  478. [19:58] <@CGG> To get to a compromise
  479. [19:58] <@CGG> we do not need to restart it
  480. [19:58] <Ryan> okay
  481. [19:59] <@CGG> you are unaware of hte discussions so far, or are ignoring what htey actually were
  482. [19:59] <Ryan> I read the entire log
  483. [19:59] <@CGG> You can participate, but we can't start over
  484. [19:59] <@CGG> Tell us what makes you unready
  485. [19:59] <@CGG> and what you need to do to make yourselves unready
  486. [19:59] <MegasX> ok then question is why are we forced to start war when pulse wants it
  487. [19:59] <@CGG> ready*
  488. [19:59] <@CGG> you're not forced to start it when they want it
  489. [19:59] <MegasX> thats clear bullying
  490. 01[19:59] <@flogger> <MegasX> ok then question is why are we forced to start war when pulse wants it
  491. [19:59] <@CGG> when do you want to start it?
  492. 01[19:59] <@flogger> because we agreed to it in order for you to get a bank?
  493. [20:00] <Ryan> I'd like to note the threats of GB from fratzia and pulse threatening to break their notice to us if we didnt give those notices back
  494. [20:00] <MegasX> <@flogger> because we agreed to it in order for you to get a bank?
  495. [20:00] <@CGG> You can start it in a reasonable amount of time, after the agreed upon date, with a valid reason why you're not ready.
  496. [20:00] <MegasX> yea and i am not saying we wont war you we will war you as per the deal
  497. [20:00] <@CGG> flogger does not have hte authority to gangabng anyone
  498. [20:00] <MegasX> but it doesnt mean we cant wave other kds prior to that
  499. [20:00] <@CGG> So you can be angry at him, but its not relevent to the current discussion
  500. [20:00] <Ryan> giving notices to fratz and OS by no means, means we arent going to war pulse
  501. [20:01] <MegasX> as far as we war pulse this age deal is on
  502. [20:01] <@CGG> It means you aren't going to war them in a reasonable time
  503. [20:01] <MegasX> thats what agreement was
  504. [20:01] <Ryan> 1. we gave notices so fratz/OS couldnt pump while we were in war with pulse
  505. 01[20:01] <@flogger> its frickin March of YR9
  506. [20:01] <MegasX> what is reasonable time?
  507. [20:01] <@CGG> a reasonable time is as soon as you are ready after the agreed date
  508. [20:01] <Ryan> 2. we cant give notices to them while we are in hostile/war
  509. 01[20:01] <@flogger> our agreement was to war at the earliest possible time
  510. [20:01] <MegasX> date wasnt agreed
  511. 01[20:01] <@flogger> you have not been in a fight in 4 weeks
  512. 01[20:02] <@flogger> the earliest possible time is prior to you fighting someone else
  513. 01[20:02] <@flogger> you cannot just up and fight someone esle in the interim
  514. [20:02] <@CGG> If you give htem notice, then they're clearly going to pump
  515. [20:02] <@AquaSeaFoam> by pump I think he means sit on low draft stocking gc
  516. [20:02] <@CGG> If they can't pump fast enough, then they will likely go to fake war, where if you exchange hits with them you will have a prolonged hostile which make it not in a reasonable time
  517. [20:02] <Ryan> yes and sci
  518. [20:02] <@CGG> They already have millions of gc and elites
  519. [20:03] <MegasX> since pulse is pumped and have noone else to hit they are forcing us to war as per theur convinience
  520. [20:03] <@CGG> all they need to do is draft
  521. 01[20:03] <@flogger> megas, we are forcing you to war because you agreed to do so
  522. [20:03] <@CGG> they didn't force you to agree to war
  523. [20:03] <@CGG> you agreed to war them
  524. [20:03] <Ryan> yes but we haven't agreed to how it will start
  525. [20:03] <MegasX> flogger i will war you
  526. [20:03] <Ryan> which is the delay
  527. 01[20:03] <@flogger> well you're an idiot ryan, quite frankly
  528. [20:03] <MegasX> we never said we wont
  529. 01[20:03] <@flogger> because those logs are fairly clear
  530. [20:03] <Ryan> sorry my understanding of the english language is better?
  531. 01[20:04] <@flogger> ok, here's the deal
  532. 01[20:04] <@flogger> I'm quite tired of debating semantics
  533. [20:04] <Ryan> agreed
  534. 01[20:05] <@flogger> I understand you guys made a bad deal
  535. 01[20:05] <@flogger> fucking man up and live up to it
  536. [20:05] <Ryan> we agreed to war
  537. [20:05] <Ryan> but on the note of agreeing how it started can be argued both ways
  538. 01[20:05] <@flogger> it really can't
  539. 01[20:05] <@flogger> but okays
  540. [20:05] <Ryan> therefore inconclusive
  541. [20:05] <Ryan> yes it can
  542. 01[20:05] <@flogger> well our position is that it can't
  543. [20:05] <@CGG> the time can't be argued though
  544. [20:06] <@CGG> how it starts we can discuss
  545. [20:06] <@CGG> bu tthe time can't
  546. [20:06] <Ryan> I used the phrased "sounds okey" in another situation and it by no means justifies firm agreeance
  547. 01[20:06] <@flogger> CGG I'd say the oppossite
  548. [20:06] <@CGG> well whatever
  549. 01[20:06] <@flogger> how it starts was fairly clear in our logs
  550. [20:06] <@CGG> lets focus on when it starts first
  551. [20:06] <@CGG> If you can't be ready, then tell us why you can't be ready
  552. [20:06] <@CGG> No one has told us that that yet
  553. [20:06] <Ryan> we never agreed to how it starts
  554. 01[20:06] <@flogger> well cause they've been pumping for a month and a half
  555. 01[20:06] <@flogger> ofc they can't say why they're not ready ;p
  556. [20:06] <@Deana> they claim we did, and refuse to budge on it
  557. 01[20:07] <@flogger> claim???????
  558. [20:07] <MegasX> why cant we discuss when it starts?
  559. 01[20:07] <@flogger> no one has said I've docotored logs
  560. 01[20:07] <@flogger> and I understand english
  561. 01[20:07] <@flogger> flogger is getting angry
  562. 01[20:07] <@flogger> I had the pleasure of having my favorite celebrity sighthing a few days ago
  563. 01[20:08] <@flogger> kenny banya from seinfeld
  564. 01[20:08] <@flogger> so I'm in a seinfeld mode
  565. [20:08] <Ryan> and im in lawyer mode considering I just watched the defenders
  566. [20:08] <@Deana> yeah claim, it wasnt clear, you said so yourself, aos may not have understood
  567. 01[20:08] <@flogger> jerry o connell FTFW!
  568. [20:09] <@CGG> can we resolve thigns in steps
  569. [20:09] <@CGG> starting with the start date?
  570. [20:09] <@Deana> dorje, who saw the logs also didnt understand
  571. 01[20:09] <@flogger> alrighty here's the deal
  572. 01[20:09] <@flogger> <flogger> 01[09:33] <flogger> you guys smack us 4x in aggro, we smack 3x in aggro and we just have it
  573. 01[20:09] <@flogger> <flogger> 01[09:37] <flogger> as for the bug, if we can't hit after 2 more ticks, we'll just make a couple doubles to make up for it. and if we can't hit in like 7 more ticks then we'll talk again
  574. 01[20:09] <@flogger> <flogger> 01[09:38] <flogger> sound reasonable?
  575. 01[20:09] <@flogger> <flogger> [09:38] <Aos> sounds okey
  576. [20:09] <Ryan> okay
  577. [20:09] <@Cheese> We're sorry Aos is stupid, next?
  578. 01[20:09] <@flogger> if everyone in this room doesn't agree that this is fairly clear and cut
  579. 01[20:09] <@flogger> I'm waving you in an hour
  580. [20:09] <Ryan> stop.
  581. [20:09] <Ryan> let me phrase something
  582. 01[20:09] <@flogger> lets stop
  583. 01[20:09] <@flogger> if everyone in this room doesn't agree this is clear and present english
  584. 01[20:09] <@flogger> my kingdom is waving you in an hour
  585. 01[20:10] <@flogger> I'm tired of debating semantics
  586. 01[20:10] <@flogger> and my kd is 180 NWPA
  587. [20:10] <Ryan> cheese says "ryan, would you like to have a threesome with me and my girlfriend? no guy on guy stuff etc, no foreplay"
  588. [20:10] <Ryan> cheese says "sounds reasonable?"
  589. [20:10] <Ryan> ryan says "sounds okey"
  590. [20:10] <Ryan> yea
  591. [20:10] <Ryan> it "sounds okay"
  592. [20:10] <Ryan> SOUNDS
  593. [20:10] <Ryan> key word
  594. [20:10] <Ryan> doesnt mean we agree
  595. [20:10] <Ryan> end of story
  596. 01[20:10] <@flogger> 59 minutes now
  597. [20:10] <Ryan> doesnt mean im going to go have the threesome
  598. [20:10] <MegasX> threats dont work flogger
  599. [20:10] <@Deana> its rhetoric and he expected for aos to be confused
  600. [20:11] <MegasX> you try to fuck us this age
  601. [20:11] <MegasX> we will do same when we get opportunity
  602. [20:11] <@AquaSeaFoam> there was a clear agrement to have a war. i think that the exact details were open to being worked out within the context of that agreement for a fair war
  603. [20:11] <Ryan> megas dont resort to their level
  604. [20:11] <Ryan> we dont do that
  605. 01[20:11] <@flogger> I don't think the details were open
  606. 03[20:11] * CGG sets mode: +m
  607. 01[20:11] <@flogger> I had a clear intention when I did the negotiations to explicitly determine how the war would start
  608. 03[20:11] * AquaSeaFoam sets mode: +v MegasX
  609. 01[20:12] <@flogger> so I'm going batshit insane and this is still in question
  610. [20:12] <@AquaSeaFoam> ryan, if you have mroe to add, have megas or deana add it for you
  611. [20:12] <@CGG> This is whats happening. You need to agree to a reasonable date, and come to some agreement on terms, or pulse is going to wave you.
  612. [20:12] <@CGG> No one can stop this unless you start to agree to something now.
  613. [20:12] <@CGG> This is your time to avoid it.
  614. [20:12] <@CGG> I don't want it to escalate beyond that.
  615. 01[20:12] <@flogger> if you can't trust aos to know what the fuck he is talking about when he agrees to things
  616. [20:12] <@CGG> I doubt anyone does.
  617. 01[20:12] <@flogger> then don't send him to do diplom
  618. 01[20:12] <@flogger> its not my fault
  619. [20:13] <@CGG> You can avoid it now. So tell us when you can be ready, or why you can't be ready.
  620. 01[20:13] <@flogger> but to argue that he agreed to what I said is just an insult to me
  621. 01[20:13] <@flogger> I'm more than willing to back off of those terms
  622. [20:14] <@Deana> ready to give them a button with only 4 armies out :/ for them to surprise declare us
  623. 01[20:14] <@flogger> but to tell me to my face that he didn't agree ot them upsets me
  624. 01[20:14] <@flogger> so here's what you do
  625. [20:14] <@Deana> you seemed to agree he didnt understand it maybe
  626. 01[20:14] <@flogger> tell me "yeah he agreed to that"
  627. 01[20:14] <@flogger> then I'll back off of them
  628. [20:14] <@Deana> he didnt
  629. 01[20:14] <@flogger> and we'll work it out
  630. Session Close: Sun Nov 14 20:14:42 2010
  631.  
  632. Session Start: Sun Nov 14 20:38:18 2010
  633. Session Ident: #letsbefriends
  634. 03[20:38] * Now talking in #letsbefriends
  635. 01[20:38] <flogger> so we've agreed to not to insult my intelligence?
  636. [20:38] #letsbefriends You need voice (+v) (#letsbefriends)
  637. [20:38] <@CGG> ok
  638. [20:38] <+Megas> so discuss next point like i said if we feel like we can gain land elsewhere and get advantage to some extent would it be wrong?
  639. 01[20:39] <flogger> well ok you can insult my intelligence
  640. [20:39] #letsbefriends You need voice (+v) (#letsbefriends)
  641. 01[20:39] <flogger> that's fair game
  642. [20:39] #letsbefriends You need voice (+v) (#letsbefriends)
  643. [20:39] <+Ryan> it is wrong
  644. [20:39] <+Ryan> cause we are making pulse wait longer
  645. [20:39] <@CGG> agreed
  646. [20:39] <@CGG> its significant amount of time past the original date
  647. 03[20:39] * CGG sets mode: +v flogger
  648. 01[20:40] <+flogger> so we've agreed at this point "ok" means "ok"?
  649. 01[20:40] <+flogger> glad to get that behind us
  650. 01[20:40] <+flogger> I was worried for a second "ok" did not in fact mean "ok"
  651. [20:41] <+Ryan> without the word sounds yes
  652. [20:41] <@CGG> okay
  653. [20:41] <@CGG> next
  654. [20:41] <@CGG> Ryan, do you want to say what you said to me in pm?
  655. [20:42] <@CGG> If the others agree to waht you said
  656. [20:42] <+Ryan> what is next topic?
  657. [20:42] <@CGG> time of war, how it starts, and cfs with os/fratzia
  658. [20:42] <+Ryan> paste it
  659. [20:42] <@CGG> as long as you don't hit them before entering conflict with pulse, then I think its OK for them to have expired by the time you exit war
  660. [20:43] <@CGG> [23:17] <CGG> how do you want it to start, and when? And will you agree to not hit os/fratzia before then?
  661. [20:43] <@CGG> [23:18] <Ryan> something like 96-120 hours of oow retal war + we'd like pulse to break then remake cf's to all of their allies near size
  662. [20:43] <@CGG> [23:18] <Ryan> so we can ensure they arent farming gc
  663. [20:43] <@CGG> [23:19] <CGG> and will you agree to not hit os/fratzia before then? and when would this start?
  664. [20:43] <@CGG> [23:21] <Ryan> we will be in active hostile to pulse then but we arent stopping our notices to os/fratz
  665. [20:43] <@CGG> [23:21] <Ryan> so they can continue pumping
  666. [20:43] <@CGG> [23:22] <CGG> So you will bei n active hostile with pulse, before your notices are up?
  667. [20:43] <@CGG> [23:22] <Ryan> we want those notices served and expired by the time were oow with pulse
  668. [20:43] <@CGG> I think thats the relevent parts
  669. 01[20:44] <+flogger> lets just agree to a 4-6 day war opposed to a 4 day hostile
  670. 01[20:44] <+flogger> you're worried about us farming GC???
  671. 01[20:44] <+flogger> get us in war and we can't
  672. [20:45] <+Ryan> that doesnt help with your size, speed, and military advantage
  673. [20:45] <@CGG> Time machine?
  674. [20:45] <@CGG> reselect races
  675. 01[20:45] <+flogger> we had a size, speed and military advantage when you agreed to war us 5 weeks ago
  676. 01[20:45] <+flogger> we were #1 and you were our last CF
  677. [20:45] <+Ryan> we were tactician then
  678. [20:45] <+Ryan> and we are now
  679. 01[20:45] <+flogger> we were warriors vs your tacts then
  680. 01[20:45] <+flogger> what has changed?
  681. [20:46] <+Ryan> tact benefit is oow vs warrior
  682. [20:46] <+Ryan> primarily
  683. 01[20:46] <+flogger> kd benefit is having a bank vs not
  684. 01[20:46] <+flogger> and you wanted a bank
  685. 01[20:46] <+flogger> so you agreed to war
  686. [20:46] <+Ryan> that is irrelevant
  687. 01[20:46] <+flogger> ummm how is that irrelevant?
  688. [20:46] <+Ryan> we agree that we agreed to war
  689. 01[20:46] <+flogger> we agreed to not hit your bank 20 times in exchange for a war
  690. [20:46] <+Ryan> bringing that up is pointless that you "let" us coqw
  691. 01[20:46] <+flogger> not for a 4 day hostile
  692. [20:46] <+Ryan> cow*
  693. 01[20:46] <+flogger> how is that pointless?
  694. [20:47] <+Ryan> if you're going to add that then
  695. [20:47] <+Ryan> shall I mention we didnt have a cow originally due to meter glitch
  696. [20:47] <+Ryan> on 24th
  697. [20:47] <+Ryan> giving whoever it was ops
  698. [20:47] <@CGG> fratzia
  699. [20:47] <+Ryan> to take advantage of that glitch
  700. [20:47] <@CGG> what glitch?
  701. 01[20:47] <+flogger> the meter has changed on the 23rd for like 4 ages now
  702. 01[20:47] <+flogger> how did you miss that?
  703. [20:47] <+Ryan> jdorje doesnt sit online monitoring all outgoing hits
  704. [20:47] <@CGG> abs is aware of this, thats just how the game works
  705. [20:48] <+Ryan> average kd members aren't aware
  706. [20:48] <@CGG> then post them in orders during conflict
  707. 01[20:48] <+flogger> I've personally been in abscouncil advising that the meter switches on the 23rd
  708. [20:48] <+Ryan> and being aware of the glitch proves it is a glitch
  709. [20:48] <@CGG> You can't hold other people accountable for your players not knowing game mechanics
  710. [20:48] <@Deana> what does this have to do with it, and can we expect to be waved in 12 minutes still
  711. [20:48] <+Ryan> they aren't expected to be aware of glitches and loopholes
  712. [20:49] <@AquaSeaFoam> i don't think fratzia is relevant, but likewise it hink it's a bit of a stretch to claim sanc wouldn't ahve had a cow without agreeing to war pulse
  713. 01[20:49] <+flogger> deana - you all seemed to agree that "ok" means "ok"
  714. 01[20:49] <+flogger> so I'm willing to discuss more
  715. 01[20:49] <+flogger> ASF
  716. [20:49] <@Deana> ah, this is like the meaning of if
  717. 01[20:49] <+flogger> sanc wouldn't have had a cow
  718. 01[20:49] <+flogger> it had like 185k defense IIRC
  719. [20:49] <@AquaSeaFoam> flogger, they'd have jsut vm'd their cow, you'd have cf'd them before the 3 days was up
  720. [20:50] <@CGG> So at minimum it woudl have lost 3 days
  721. [20:50] <@AquaSeaFoam> this was before jolt decided vm wasnt' allowed for sucht hings
  722. [20:50] <@CGG> and it had, what... 700k peasants?
  723. [20:50] <@CGG> something like that
  724. [20:50] <@CGG> my income with 665k peasants wiht 2.5M netchange
  725. [20:50] <@CGG> 2.5*72 = 180
  726. [20:50] <@AquaSeaFoam> it'd ahve slowed their cow, but they'd still ahve one
  727. [20:50] <@CGG> 180M gc minimum difference
  728. [20:50] <@CGG> so the range is 180M gc less, vs not havin git
  729. [20:50] <@CGG> probably would have gotten it up somehow
  730. [20:51] <@CGG> at least to where rages is
  731. [20:51] <+Ryan> anyways none of the above is relevant at all
  732. [20:51] <+Ryan> lol
  733. 01[20:51] <+flogger> and it would have lost plenty of acres
  734. [20:51] <@CGG> yeah, its not really relevent
  735. 01[20:51] <+flogger> as we had people home ready to hit it, but its not relevant
  736. [20:51] <@AquaSeaFoam> ya it would ahve been harmful and slowing on it
  737. [20:51] <+Ryan> that's like us saying
  738. [20:51] <@AquaSeaFoam> but time to move on
  739. [20:51] <+Ryan> you're lucky we didnt bounce ur cow 5 days into the age
  740. [20:51] <+Ryan> etc
  741. 01[20:52] <+flogger> you were busy losing wars to fratz 5 days into the age
  742. [20:52] <+Ryan> or you are lucky we didnt have killers etc
  743. [20:52] <+Ryan> all irrelevant
  744. [20:52] <@CGG> except those aren't based on you agreeign to anything
  745. [20:52] <@CGG> those are based on you deciding not to do them
  746. [20:52] <+Ryan> still irrelevant
  747. [20:53] <@CGG> Well, moving on...
  748. [20:54] <@Deana> who gets to chain orc leets is a big issue
  749. 01[20:55] <+flogger> then don't agree to getting orc leets chained?
  750. [20:55] <@CGG> Can you just agree on an hour change for declare?
  751. [20:55] <@Deana> cant see when war starts very well
  752. [20:55] <@Deana> ok flogger lets not agree to that
  753. [20:55] <@CGG> a specific hour change, if that was unclear
  754. 01[20:57] <+flogger> I'm willing to come up with some sort of agreement on whose orcs are out or not if you retract your respective notices
  755. [20:58] <@Deana> i gave the notices because you refused to bend on the how
  756. 01[20:58] <+flogger> I didnt refuse to bend on the how at all
  757. 01[20:58] <+flogger> I told megas I would
  758. 01[20:58] <+flogger> you started talking about your spy son
  759. 01[20:58] <+flogger> as if you were drunk
  760. [20:58] <@Deana> :/
  761. [20:58] <@Deana> you want to insult my kids now?
  762. 01[20:59] <+flogger> I thought I was more insulting you sounding drunk when you were likely sober
  763. [20:59] <@Deana> maybe
  764. [20:59] <+Ryan> pull his hair deana
  765. [21:00] <@Deana> i more wanted you to talk sense, instead of more rhetoric that needed a cryptological interpreter
  766. 01[21:00] <+flogger> I was speaking perfectly understandable english
  767. 01[21:00] <+flogger> I thought you were more being annoying
  768. 01[21:00] <+flogger> opposed to actually not understanding plain english
  769. [21:00] <@Deana> [11:32] <flogger> the reason we set the terms of how the war starts back when we CF'd was cause its hard to ever get 2 sides to agree on how to start a war
  770. [21:00] <@Deana> [11:32] <flogger> so we just set the way it starts back when we originally CF'd
  771. [21:01] <@Deana> it looks like you are refusing to change to me
  772. 01[21:01] <+flogger> well ok, we want to change the terms
  773. [21:01] <@CGG> well he's agreeing now
  774. [21:01] <@CGG> so move forward
  775. 01[21:01] <+flogger> ONE side has to have elites home, how do we solve this problem?
  776. [21:01] <@Deana> great
  777. 01[21:02] <+flogger> my point stays the same, neither side wants elites home
  778. [21:02] <@Deana> sure
  779. 01[21:02] <+flogger> yet one side has to have them home
  780. [21:02] <@CGG> you can agree to a very specific time
  781. [21:02] <+Ryan> well
  782. [21:02] <@CGG> or you can chain provs with troops out
  783. [21:02] <@CGG> the ones that started the war
  784. [21:02] <@Deana> but getting multiple prvinces chained down with army home wins the war
  785. 01[21:02] <+flogger> well we'll win the war cause I'm awesome
  786. 01[21:02] <+flogger> but going back to the point
  787. [21:02] <@Deana> dorje isnt here, it wont even count ;)
  788. [21:03] <+Ryan> ye im gunna get a sitter
  789. [21:03] <+Ryan> idc
  790. [21:03] <+Ryan> dont think our kd even feels like warring
  791. [21:03] <+Ryan> u could sit our entire kd
  792. [21:03] <+Ryan> war urself
  793. [21:03] <+Ryan> :P
  794. 01[21:03] <+flogger> megas said your kd was bored to shit and wanted to war ;p
  795. [21:03] <@Deana> yeah, they want to war
  796. [21:03] <@CGG> they wanna war insolence!
  797. [21:03] <+Ryan> how do u know that deana
  798. [21:04] <+Ryan> they never talk
  799. [21:04] <+Ryan> lol
  800. [21:04] <+Ryan> unless u mean soshaan
  801. [21:04] <+Ryan> that's all he cares about
  802. [21:04] <@Deana> not helpful
  803. [21:04] <@Deana> one way to not get chained with all leets home is to retal war into it
  804. [21:05] <@Deana> another is the hc set time
  805. 01[21:05] <+flogger> I don't see why you think a retal war is helpful
  806. 01[21:05] <+flogger> our bank is dwarf
  807. 01[21:05] <+flogger> yours is human
  808. [21:05] <+Ryan> whoever sends out quicker once in war wont have elites home
  809. [21:05] <+Ryan> but will have lower def
  810. 01[21:05] <+flogger> every exchanged hit helps our bank
  811. [21:05] <+Ryan> so there's an advantage to both
  812. 01[21:06] <+flogger> the main advantage your kd has is its bank should be much more ready and prepared to farm ours
  813. 01[21:07] <+flogger> extending it doesn't help any
  814. 01[21:08] <+flogger> we're warriors, we don't have to anon in retal wars and you do, so how long can 5h worse attack time help you?
  815. [21:09] <@Deana> doesnt sound like it would to me
  816. [21:09] <+Ryan> exactly why we dont want a short term
  817. [21:09] <+Ryan> your size
  818. [21:10] <+Ryan> more military
  819. [21:10] <+Ryan> and speed
  820. 01[21:10] <+flogger> I'm fine with agreeing to a 4 day war
  821. [21:10] <+Ryan> tactician = econ
  822. [21:10] <+Ryan> doesnt solve anything cause your 2nd wave is first
  823. [21:10] <+Ryan> which is huge advantage
  824. 01[21:11] <+flogger> the 2nd wave isn't much of a factor
  825. 01[21:11] <+flogger> its ending the war up a wave
  826. [21:11] <+Ryan> wrong
  827. [21:11] <@CGG> second wave takes out x amount more provs
  828. [21:11] <@CGG> which wont be involved in their second wave
  829. 01[21:11] <+flogger> our 2nd wave will involve trying to chain people with 1k + acres incoming in an hour or two
  830. 01[21:11] <+flogger> what good does that do us?
  831. [21:12] <+Ryan> quit playing stupid, and if you arent acting then..............
  832. [21:12] <@Cheese> Sanctuary agreed to a war?
  833. 01[21:12] <+flogger> I'm not playing stupid!
  834. [21:12] <@Deana> dont think that was ever the issue Cheese
  835. [21:12] <+Ryan> gg
  836. 01[21:12] <+flogger> generally I don't like chaining people with alotta acres incoming in an hour or two
  837. [21:12] <@Cheese> Then why are we debating what might or might not happen in it
  838. [21:14] <+Ryan> is fb chat not working
  839. [21:14] <@Deana> how it starts was the issue
  840. [21:14] <@Deana> who cares :/
  841. 01[21:14] <+flogger> does you guys full waving 1x'ing solve the issue?
  842. 01[21:15] <+flogger> just saying "we decalre at 12:14AM" just seems like a clusterfuck of stress
  843. 01[21:15] <+flogger> of both sides trying to get armies out
  844. [21:15] <@Deana> we dont want to wait around for you do declare
  845. [21:16] <@CGG> So you can agree to a specific time
  846. 01[21:16] <+flogger> you'll wave and we'll declare within like 15-20 mins
  847. [21:16] <+Ryan> so u can chain us?
  848. [21:16] <+Ryan> lol...
  849. [21:16] <+Ryan> wtf?
  850. 01[21:16] <+flogger> well you agreed to give us the button already
  851. 01[21:16] <+flogger> and agreed to do it with only 4 armies out
  852. [21:16] <+Ryan> where was this
  853. 01[21:16] <+flogger> I thought we agreed to not insult my intelligence alreayd?
  854. [21:16] <+Ryan> was that the part that included "sounds"
  855. [21:17] <+Ryan> ?
  856. 01[21:17] <+flogger> can we get this noob outta here before I wave you?
  857. [21:17] <+Ryan> what are we even discussing then?
  858. [21:17] <+Ryan> cgg?
  859. [21:17] <+Ryan> if he's still expecting that part
  860. [21:17] <@CGG> how to start war I believe
  861. [21:17] <+Ryan> yes
  862. [21:17] <+Ryan> and the convo started with us saying 96-120 hour oow retal war
  863. 01[21:18] <+flogger> u want a 3 to 4 day retal war?
  864. [21:18] <@CGG> 96/24 = 4
  865. [21:18] <@CGG> 120/24 = 5
  866. [21:18] <@CGG> thats 4-5 day retal war
  867. 01[21:18] <+flogger> errr 4-5 day retal war
  868. [21:18] <+Ryan> lol
  869. 01[21:18] <+flogger> when I speificially made the war terms such to avoid a retal war?
  870. 01[21:18] <+flogger> that you agreed to no less
  871. [21:18] <+Ryan> omg...
  872. 01[21:18] <+flogger> that's ridiculously
  873. [21:18] <+Ryan> not this again
  874. [21:18] <@CGG> I think you can agree to a very specific time for war, or you can only chain provs with troops out, or you can both do a full wave oow and declare
  875. [21:19] <+Ryan> I thought you said this would be a FAIR war
  876. 01[21:19] <+flogger> ryan, I only rejoined this channel under the premise that you agreed that you agreed to the terms posted
  877. [21:19] <+Ryan> did you not?
  878. 01[21:19] <+flogger> I said I would be willing to adjust those terms
  879. 01[21:19] <+flogger> only if you would agree that you agreed to what I said
  880. 01[21:19] <+flogger> if you continue to tell me that "ok" doesn't mean "ok"
  881. 01[21:19] <+flogger> I'm going to rage again
  882. [21:20] <+Ryan> yes were discussing to adjust them
  883. [21:20] <+Ryan> <+flogger> well you agreed to give us the button already
  884. [21:20] <+Ryan> <+flogger> and agreed to do it with only 4 armies out
  885. [21:20] <+Ryan> <+Ryan> where was this
  886. [21:20] <+Ryan> <+flogger> I thought we agreed to not insult my intelligence alreayd?
  887. [21:20] <@CGG> can we discuss a different point for a second
  888. [21:20] <+Ryan> but apparently
  889. [21:20] <@CGG> and continue this in a second?
  890. [21:20] <@Deana> you said you would back off them, but you are back to them again
  891. [21:20] <+Ryan> you arent open to it
  892. 01[21:20] <+flogger> yes, but I thought we all agreed that you had agreed to the terms that were posted
  893. 01[21:20] <+flogger> I'm not open to ADJUSTING them
  894. [21:20] <+Ryan> LOL?
  895. [21:20] <@CGG> <@CGG> can we discuss a different point for a second
  896. [21:20] <@CGG> <@CGG> can we discuss a different point for a second
  897. [21:20] <@CGG> <@CGG> can we discuss a different point for a second
  898. 01[21:20] <+flogger> but if you keep telling me you didn't agree to them
  899. [21:20] <+Ryan> <+flogger> I said I would be willing to adjust those terms
  900. [21:20] <+Ryan> <+flogger> only if you would agree that you agreed to what I said
  901. [21:20] <+Ryan> ?
  902. 01[21:20] <+flogger> yes
  903. 01[21:21] <+flogger> If you can stop telling me that you didn't agree to what I said
  904. [21:21] <+Ryan> so you want us to agree to them and then u wont adjust them
  905. 01[21:21] <+flogger> then I will adjust that
  906. [21:21] <+Ryan> thats cool?
  907. 01[21:21] <+flogger> do you understand english?
  908. [21:21] <+Ryan> what is the point of that?
  909. [21:21] <+Ryan> there is none
  910. [21:21] <+Ryan> only gives u grounds to hold us to it
  911. 01[21:21] <+flogger> I said "you agree that you said "yes" "
  912. [21:21] <+Ryan> under false pretences
  913. 01[21:21] <+flogger> and then I'll adjust them
  914. [21:21] <@CGG> Can sanc agree to that they won't attack oldschool or fratzia until war/hostile/whatever with pulse is concluded?
  915. 01[21:21] <+flogger> well I know you won't agree ot them
  916. 01[21:22] <+flogger> if you're just lying out your ass because you think I'm going to hold you to them
  917. 01[21:22] <+flogger> that upsets me
  918. 01[21:22] <+flogger> you don't have to hold up to anything
  919. 01[21:22] <+flogger> all I'm saying is
  920. [21:22] <+Ryan> huh?
  921. 01[21:22] <+flogger> sanc : " I agree we made a bad deal"
  922. [21:22] <+Ryan> you are contradicting yourself
  923. 01[21:22] <+flogger> pulse : "we'll adjust teh deal"
  924. 01[21:22] <+flogger> but don't for a second tell me you didn't agree to it
  925. [21:22] <+Ryan> pulse "but we dont adjust it if you dont agree you made it"
  926. [21:22] <+Ryan> wont*
  927. 01[21:23] <+flogger> I will adjust it, as has been said here
  928. 01[21:23] <+flogger> if you stop telling me you didn't agree to it
  929. 01[21:23] <+flogger> agreed to it
  930. [21:23] <+Ryan> <+flogger> when I speificially made the war terms such to avoid a retal war?
  931. [21:23] <+Ryan> <+flogger> that you agreed to no less
  932. 01[21:23] <+flogger> but if you keep with this bullshit that you never agreed to it
  933. [21:23] <+Ryan> we were already passed that
  934. [21:23] <+Ryan> until u blatantly said u werent open to adjusting it
  935. 01[21:23] <+flogger> when did I say that?
  936. 01[21:23] <+flogger> I'm open to adjusting it
  937. 01[21:23] <+flogger> I said that to megas 2 days ago
  938. [21:24] <@CGG> he's not open to addign retal war
  939. [21:24] <+Ryan> <+flogger> that's ridiculously
  940. 01[21:24] <+flogger> I said it before I ragequit this channel
  941. [21:24] <@CGG> he's open to changing how war starts
  942. [21:24] <+Ryan> retal wars are how wars start
  943. [21:24] <@CGG> how war starts was previously you make 4 hits, then make 3
  944. [21:24] <+Ryan> common sense no?
  945. [21:24] <@CGG> not all wars
  946. 01[21:24] <+flogger> all wars start with retal wars in ryan world?
  947. [21:24] <@CGG> in my day
  948. [21:24] <+Ryan> yes
  949. 01[21:24] <+flogger> sometimes people wave and others declare, no?
  950. [21:24] <@CGG> you declared war
  951. [21:24] <@CGG> and it happened
  952. [21:24] <+Ryan> arranged marriage is for indians
  953. [21:25] <+Ryan> okay i agree not all wars start with oow hostilities first
  954. [21:25] <+Ryan> well
  955. [21:25] <+Ryan> technically
  956. [21:25] <+Ryan> they do
  957. [21:25] <+Ryan> all of them
  958. [21:25] <+Ryan> =P
  959. [21:25] <+Ryan> but
  960. [21:26] <+Ryan> this is all apart of how war starts
  961. [21:26] <@AquaSeaFoam> here's the issue i see. to me it looks like sanc didn't object and said it sounds ok, but it looks like aos was mainly agreeing that an agreed war where terms were flexible to be fair to each side sounded ok. Now if you want to get technical, you can say that flogger added in some specifics and only said other specifics were flexible, not the start ones, however if youw ant to get technical, i't salso fair to point out that there was never a
  962. [21:26] <+Ryan> which we are discussing
  963. [21:26] <@Cheese> i't salso fair to point out that there was never a
  964. [21:26] <@Deana> there was never a <<-- cut off AquaSeaFoam
  965. 01[21:26] <+flogger> ASF - saying that AoS didn't agree to specific terms of how the war upsets me
  966. [21:26] <+Ryan> the truth upsets u?
  967. [21:26] <+Ryan> =/
  968. [21:26] <+Ryan> be fair man
  969. [21:26] <+Ryan> common
  970. [21:27] <@AquaSeaFoam> salso fair to point out that there was never a formal stating of agreements and an official agreement. Therefore, I think it's most fair to not get too technical and instead look at the intent and the intent was to agree to a fair arranged war
  971. 01[21:27] <+flogger> alrighty, can we agree to boot ryan at this point?
  972. 01[21:27] <+flogger> he's like donny and he's out of his element
  973. 03[21:27] * AquaSeaFoam sets mode: -v Ryan
  974. [21:27] <@AquaSeaFoam> solved?
  975. 01[21:27] <+flogger> yes
  976. [21:27] <@AquaSeaFoam> i think that aos said the deal sounded ok
  977. [21:27] <+Megas> calm down just discuss how war can be evenly arranged
  978. [21:27] <+Megas> thats what sanc wants
  979. [21:27] <@CGG> It can be changed how it starts, but I don't think they're going to agree to add retal war into it
  980. 01[21:28] <+flogger> I just liked getting a lebowski quote in there
  981. [21:28] <@AquaSeaFoam> as a whole, but i think he was also under the possibly mistaken impressiont hat the deal was for a fair war where the details would be flexible
  982. [21:28] <@AquaSeaFoam> your flexibility ont he timing and such gave this impression
  983. [21:28] <@Deana> you can, but you said you would back off the 4 hits to hostile thing and make new arrangements, but then you say you wont
  984. 01[21:29] <+flogger> well propse me another solution deana - i made the terms because neither side wants to get hit turtled, so propose me something else?
  985. 01[21:29] <+flogger> I apologize for realizing in YR4 orcs dont want to get hit turtled and aos didn't
  986. [21:29] <@Deana> <@CGG> I think you can agree to a very specific time for war, or you can only chain provs with troops out, or you can both do a full wave oow and declare
  987. 01[21:29] <+flogger> but propose somethign else
  988. 01[21:30] <+flogger> well the very specific time ends up with one side getting hit turtled and just a clicking game
  989. 01[21:30] <+flogger> so someone's getting hit turtled
  990. [21:30] <@CGG> well, its posisble they don't
  991. [21:30] <@Deana> we both will know the time
  992. [21:30] <@CGG> maybe you chain people and they agically get armies out real quick
  993. [21:30] <@CGG> its pretty impossible to predict
  994. 01[21:30] <+flogger> and I've asked if you guys all 1x'ing solves the problem which fits the "you can only chain provs with troops out"
  995. [21:32] <@Deana> not really, it just means we have everyone out on a max gains annon and have very little armies to chain with
  996. [21:32] <@Deana> you get two waves to chain
  997. [21:32] <@Deana> which you being warriors, will be the case reguardless
  998. 01[21:32] <+flogger> we get 2 waves to chain under any scenario
  999. 01[21:32] <+flogger> and like I said
  1000. [21:32] <@Deana> cept the retal war one
  1001. [21:33] <@Deana> although then we are also out on max gain anon hits
  1002. [21:33] <@Deana> and you get two waves
  1003. [21:33] <@CGG> set an amount of provs to send out to start the chains, let pulse have input on which ones, pulse declares and chains the provs with troops out, sanc responds with their chain
  1004. [21:33] <@CGG> imo
  1005. 01[21:33] <+flogger> chaining people an hour b2fore they got a lot of acres incomging isn't the best strategy
  1006. 01[21:35] <+flogger> why on earth would we want to chain people with 1500a incomign though?
  1007. [21:36] <@AquaSeaFoam> because then sanc would do the same to you?
  1008. [21:37] <@AquaSeaFoam> so it'd be fair?
  1009. [21:37] <@Cheese> so this is a war where no one gets hurt?
  1010. 01[21:37] <+flogger> at this point if sanc retracts the notice with OS and fratz we'll take that
  1011. [21:37] <@AquaSeaFoam> i'm sure ppl will get hurt even if they agreed to not give one kd a special advantage to chain the other all home to start
  1012. [21:38] <@Cheese> well they didnt like the full waving idea
  1013. [21:38] <@AquaSeaFoam> let's prepare the full terms then and see if we can get an agreement on all terms or where the contention points remain
  1014. [21:38] <@Cheese> seems to me they just dont want to war period
  1015. 01[21:38] <+flogger> well I plan on hitting more than 4 provs on the open wave, to start
  1016. [21:40] <@Deana> Megas ^
  1017. 01[21:40] <+flogger> both sides are going to be 2-3x'ing eachother to start at least
  1018. 01[21:41] <+flogger> I'm not planning on 20 hits per orc
  1019. [21:41] <@Deana> you dont want the specific time thoug
  1020. [21:41] <@Deana> or you do?
  1021. 01[21:41] <+flogger> alrighty, lets do the specific time thing
  1022. 01[21:41] <+flogger> and just have a fun race
  1023. 01[21:42] <+flogger> you give us 4 hits in aggro, and we'll tell you the minute we declare
  1024. 01[21:42] <+flogger> in advance
  1025. [21:42] <@Deana> how far in advance :/
  1026. 01[21:42] <+flogger> 15 mins?
  1027. [21:44] <@CGG> can you set which hour in advance?
  1028. [21:44] <@CGG> and then the specific minute, 15 minutes in advance?
  1029. 01[21:44] <+flogger> sure, June 4th
  1030. 01[21:44] <+flogger> and we'll do it at the 30 min mark
  1031. [21:45] <@CGG> and restore notice to os/sanc, and you can give it to them on june 3rd
  1032. [21:45] <@CGG> i mean
  1033. [21:45] <@CGG> um...
  1034. [21:45] <@CGG> fratzia!
  1035. [21:45] <@CGG> thats them
  1036. 01[21:45] <+flogger> they can give it to us early June 4th fo what I care
  1037. [21:47] <@Deana> minute flogger
  1038. 01[21:47] <+flogger> woulda been easier if you had taken this minute 5 weeks ago with AoS, but sure ;p
  1039. [21:49] <@Deana> can we go a bit earlier, like may 23rd or so
  1040. 01[21:50] <+flogger> we'd have to put a prov or two on sitting
  1041. 01[21:50] <+flogger> cause they're at work
  1042. 01[21:51] <+flogger> don't want to force someone to be sat for our only action all age
  1043. 01[21:51] <+flogger> although that timing works much much better for me
  1044. 01[21:51] <+flogger> as I'd have to call outta work to be on the 4th
  1045. [21:52] <@CGG> I wonder if I'm getting farmed onbf
  1046. [21:52] <+Megas> did i?!
  1047. [21:52] <@Deana> you are turtles
  1048. [21:52] <@CGG> no, but asmo got plundered
  1049. [21:53] <@Deana> thats like 3 am for asians though and thats like half our kd
  1050. [21:54] <@Deana> unless im subtracting wrong
  1051. 01[21:54] <+flogger> blame juncture!
  1052. 01[21:54] <+flogger> she's the one who can't logon at work
  1053. 01[21:54] <+flogger> our original wave you date was may 20th
  1054. 01[21:54] <+flogger> she pushed it back to the 4th
  1055. [21:56] <@CGG> can she attack earlier?
  1056. [21:56] <@CGG> or can they promise not to chain her?
  1057. 01[21:56] <+flogger> we'd have to sit her
  1058. [21:56] <@CGG> you gotta make 3 hits anyway
  1059. 01[21:57] <+flogger> she cant logon at work
  1060. 01[21:57] <+flogger> and she's banging johnsnowstorm
  1061. [21:57] <@CGG> can she attack before work though?
  1062. 01[21:57] <+flogger> she she has some weight
  1063. [21:57] <@CGG> is she hot?
  1064. [21:57] <@CGG> do I have her on facebook?
  1065. [21:57] <@Deana> we havent really even deviated from the original much, just want a time you will declare
  1066. 01[21:58] <+flogger> June 4th at the 30 minute mark works for us
  1067. 01[21:58] <+flogger> we're half euro
  1068. [21:58] <@CGG> does she work the day before? or after?
  1069. [21:58] <@CGG> can you issue her A GOD DAMN COMPANY PHONE??
  1070. 01[21:58] <+flogger> works terribly for me
  1071. [21:58] <@CGG> you SEIROUSLY have people that can't login??
  1072. 01[21:58] <+flogger> as its like noon or 1PM my time on a workday
  1073. [21:58] <@Deana> i dont even think Megas can log in then
  1074. [21:59] <@Deana> and he is playing two provinces + would need to run chains
  1075. 01[21:59] <+flogger> see here's how pulse works
  1076. 01[21:59] <+flogger> I try to avoid getting yelled at by curdie
  1077. [21:59] <@Deana> unless he can do it from mobile
  1078. 01[21:59] <+flogger> and curdie wants to be home for it
  1079. 01[22:00] <+flogger> curdie is like a male exci
  1080. [22:03] <@CGG> what time is before work for juncture?
  1081. 01[22:05] <+flogger> asking, dunno if she's on now
  1082. [22:06] <@CGG> can you do later than 4th?
  1083. [22:06] <@CGG> 7th or 8th?
  1084. [22:07] <@CGG> its the 13th now, so thats...
  1085. [22:07] <@CGG> 5-6 hours before now
  1086. [22:07] <@Deana> 2 am euro?
  1087. [22:07] <@CGG> so thats...
  1088. [22:08] <@CGG> 7-8pm EST
  1089. [22:08] <@CGG> 2-3am euro
  1090. 01[22:08] <+flogger> yeah, any drastic timechance will require me asking people who aren't online now
  1091. 01[22:08] <+flogger> but I imagine 2-3am euro isn't ideal
  1092. [22:09] <+Megas> so push it further? 4-5 hrs
  1093. [22:09] <+Megas> 10:30 am for me 6 am for euros?
  1094. [22:09] <+Megas> or 7 am
  1095. [22:10] <@Deana> 10-2am for north america
  1096. [22:11] <@Deana> would be accetable alternative if ya'll cant do the 20th-24th
  1097. 01[22:11] <+flogger> I'm fine with going for any time period that works, I just can't agree to it this second with my council offline
  1098. 01[22:11] <+flogger> they know better than I do what time works
  1099. 01[22:12] <+flogger> and I
  1100. 01[22:12] <+flogger> and I'd like a hard date set so I can sleep and get ppl off my back
  1101. [22:12] <+Megas> as far as its not a horrible date like 2:30 am or so early morning
  1102. [22:12] <+Megas> i am ok
  1103. 01[22:13] <+flogger> which date is that?
  1104. [22:13] <+Megas> 4th is 2:30 am for me
  1105. 01[22:13] <+flogger> 4th means I gotta tell my bosses I'm coming to work 3 hours late for me!
  1106. [22:13] <@CGG> he doens't want 4th
  1107. [22:13] <+Megas> so i dont want that
  1108. [22:13] <@CGG> he want back to the 23rd, or forward some hours
  1109. 01[22:14] <+flogger> wake your ass up at 2:30AM!
  1110. [22:14] <+Megas> ermm too much work
  1111. 01[22:14] <+flogger> you've banked many ages!
  1112. [22:14] <@Deana> hard to run a chain on mobile
  1113. 01[22:14] <+flogger> why are you on a mobible at 2:30 AM?
  1114. 01[22:14] <+flogger> aren't just just either sleeping or not?
  1115. [22:15] <+Megas> running bank was on mobile :)
  1116. 01[22:15] <+flogger> aren't you just either sleeping or not I mean?
  1117. [22:15] <@Deana> not if you live in india with your whole family
  1118. 01[22:15] <+flogger> is the 2:30AM only a problem cause you're prefer to sleep?
  1119. [22:16] <+Megas> i only get up odd time to start something to dl and sleep next moment thats about it
  1120. [22:16] <+Megas> i would avoid odd timing if at all possible
  1121. 01[22:16] <+flogger> i've got work and deadlines due, the 4th is shittay timing for me in california but I can make due
  1122. 01[22:16] <+flogger> if its just a matter of sleep that's not that big of a deal IMO
  1123. [22:17] <+Megas> not really we can set date afew hrs behind if u want
  1124. [22:17] <+Megas> since we do have choice
  1125. 01[22:17] <+flogger> well the 4th is what 1PM for me?
  1126. 01[22:17] <+flogger> I need to call out of work
  1127. 01[22:18] <+flogger> presumably its easier to say "I'll be in at 2"
  1128. 01[22:18] <+flogger> then it is to say "I'll be in at 4"
  1129. 01[22:18] <+flogger> if its just a matter of staying up till 2:30AM just tough it out
  1130. 01[22:19] <+flogger> I'm agreeing to a radically different war terms than we already agreed to out of both the goodness of my heart and how much this annoys me
  1131. 01[22:19] <+flogger> you can at least wake up to accomodate my time
  1132. [22:20] <@AquaSeaFoam> what radically different terms are you agreeing to?
  1133. [22:20] <@CGG> seems similarish
  1134. [22:20] <@Deana> :/
  1135. 01[22:21] <+flogger> agreeing to a specific time
  1136. [22:21] <@Deana> the spirit of the agreement seemed to include knowing a declare time to me
  1137. [22:22] <@Deana> since we pick time, we hit, you hit, declare
  1138. [22:22] <@AquaSeaFoam> agreeing to the time definately seemed implied to me also
  1139. [22:22] <@AquaSeaFoam> so i think radically different is quite a stretch
  1140. 01[22:23] <+flogger> defining the minute and making it a race to hit the other side turtled is a stretch
  1141. 01[22:24] <+flogger> sanc agreed to a bad deal
  1142. 01[22:24] <+flogger> which I'm allowing them to back out of
  1143. 01[22:25] <+flogger> I apologize for sanc sending a noob to do the diplom
  1144. [22:25] <@AquaSeaFoam> nothing in this deal is against what you originally said
  1145. [22:25] <@AquaSeaFoam> and the intent implied in the full taks ws definately to have a fair deal so this is in line with the intent expressed at the time
  1146. 01[22:26] <+flogger> I don't get why you think the intent was to make a perfectly fair deal
  1147. 01[22:26] <+flogger> the point of utopia is to make deals that benefit you
  1148. [22:26] <@AquaSeaFoam> that's the way the deal was presented
  1149. [22:26] <@AquaSeaFoam> i don't mean your secret intent
  1150. [22:26] <@AquaSeaFoam> jsut the intent expressed in the negotaitions
  1151. 01[22:26] <+flogger> sorry for being good at diplom?
  1152. [22:26] <@AquaSeaFoam> ya it was good
  1153. [22:27] <@AquaSeaFoam> but it's also reasonable for the otehr party to expect the expressed and implied intent to be upheld
  1154. [22:27] <@AquaSeaFoam> which now it is
  1155. [22:27] <@Cheese> I havent seen anything agreed on yet
  1156. [22:27] <@AquaSeaFoam> so just figure otu a common time that works
  1157. [22:28] <@Cheese> And I dont think there is mulligans in diplomatic agreements
  1158. 01[22:28] <+flogger> I thought I avoided having to decipher expressed implied intent for making the terms simple to understand
  1159. 01[22:28] <+flogger> but I've found out today that simple terms might not be that simple
  1160. 01[22:30] <+flogger> hitting someone four times and having someone else hit someone three times seems relatively simple to understand at the time
  1161. 01[22:31] <+flogger> but I did not take into account the expressed implied intent
  1162. [22:31] <@AquaSeaFoam> well, i'm sure you could ahve reiterated the poitns youw anted and got aos to agree to them all specifically or as a concise summary to elimiate the debate
  1163. [22:31] <@AquaSeaFoam> but you didn't seal it as cleanly as you could have either
  1164. 01[22:31] <+flogger> they seemed more concerned with not gettign their bank hit twenty times at the time
  1165. 01[22:32] <+flogger> so agreed to whatever I said
  1166. [22:32] <@AquaSeaFoam> perhaps didn't want to risk an objection when you already had something that looked ok
  1167. 01[22:32] <+flogger> and so I didn't hit their bank twenty times
  1168. [22:32] <@AquaSeaFoam> hitting their bank 20 times wouldn't do much more than hitting it 6 times
  1169. [22:32] <@AquaSeaFoam> but ok
  1170. 01[22:32] <+flogger> I said it quite quite clearly
  1171. [22:32] <@Cheese> ah, its our fault now
  1172. [22:32] <@AquaSeaFoam> and he didn't respond
  1173. 01[22:32] <+flogger> the hangup seems to be based on how long aos took to reply
  1174. [22:32] <@Cheese> took longer to get to then normal
  1175. 01[22:32] <+flogger> which I fail to see how it is my fault
  1176. [22:33] <@AquaSeaFoam> no cheese, you are not involved in the deal at all so it's not yoru fault
  1177. 01[22:33] <+flogger> I still fail to see how the duration of time it took aos to reply to my terms is somehow me manipulating things
  1178. [22:33] <@Cheese> i said our
  1179. [22:33] <@AquaSeaFoam> yes, aos didn't reply until after when you changed the topic to discussing the bug
  1180. [22:33] <@Deana> why are we back to this again
  1181. [22:33] <@AquaSeaFoam> you arent in pulse are you cheese?
  1182. [22:34] <@Cheese> No? I am here now though
  1183. 01[22:34] <+flogger> well cheese is here for the same reason you are
  1184. [22:34] <@Deana> you tell us we can war on the 4th and refuse to budge
  1185. [22:34] <@Deana> :/
  1186. [22:34] <@AquaSeaFoam> ok, so any aspects of the deal are not your fault
  1187. [22:34] <@AquaSeaFoam> nor are they mine
  1188. [22:34] <@Cheese> just floggers fault
  1189. [22:34] <@Cheese> is what i meant
  1190. [22:34] <@AquaSeaFoam> yes flogger and aos
  1191. 01[22:34] <+flogger> I'm saying the fact that megas doesn't want to wake up at 2:30 AM isn't really a reason to reject the date
  1192. 01[22:34] <+flogger> when I have to adjust my schedule to accomodate that date
  1193. [22:35] <@Cheese> just aos from where i am sitting, but ok
  1194. 01[22:35] <+flogger> as if the roles were reversed I'd gladly be awake at 2:30 AM to get this settled
  1195. 01[22:36] <+flogger> and waking up at 2:30 AM really isn't much of a stretch to assume for an abs council member whose banked
  1196. [22:36] <@AquaSeaFoam> i'd say aos messed it up more but if flogger wanted to really "get" him, he should have clarified the agreement a bit mroe by having aos specifically agree to fixed terms
  1197. [22:36] <@AquaSeaFoam> instead of implying terms could be flexible and could be figured out later
  1198. [22:36] <@AquaSeaFoam> and then aos not responding
  1199. [22:36] <@AquaSeaFoam> and calling that an agreement
  1200. 01[22:36] <+flogger> he didn't respond for a total of 4 minutes
  1201. 01[22:36] <+flogger> its not as if there was a day lag there
  1202. [22:37] <@Deana> its not about him just waking up, he lives in india with his family, he cant be on pc in the middle of the night
  1203. [22:37] <@Deana> he logs on mobile
  1204. [22:37] <@Deana> so its a very bad time for us
  1205. [22:37] <@AquaSeaFoam> he didn't respond at all to the stuff about that, only responded after you said:
  1206. [22:37] <@AquaSeaFoam> flogger> as for the bug, if we can't hit after 2 more ticks, we'll just make a couple doubles to make up for it. and if we can't hit in like 7 more ticks then we'll talk again
  1207. 01[22:37] <+flogger> ASF - it was a 4 minute lag!
  1208. [22:37] <@AquaSeaFoam> so he didn't respond at all specifically about those terms
  1209. [22:38] <@AquaSeaFoam> and you asked a new question before his response
  1210. 01[22:38] <+flogger> and not to mention how upset pulse was that all the sudden a bug occurred where sanc was the only kingdom on the server we couldn't hit
  1211. [22:38] <@AquaSeaFoam> not jsut about the time
  1212. [22:38] <@AquaSeaFoam> i'm jsut saying, if you want to get technical ont he details, you also didnt' lock up the log as well as you should ahve
  1213. [22:39] <+Megas> u did get to hit according to the deal anyway
  1214. [22:39] <+Megas> bug or not you would have gotten acres
  1215. [22:39] <@AquaSeaFoam> eitehr way, the current agreement is following the terms you proposed that there is some question on if aos accepted as is or accepted in principle based on ebing able to be figured out later
  1216. [22:39] <@AquaSeaFoam> but it's still doing exactly as proposed by you
  1217. [22:39] <@AquaSeaFoam> jsut also has one extra stipulationt hat you also tell themt eh time you declare which seemed to be implied int he spirit of the deal
  1218. 01[22:40] <+flogger> well there's questioned by completely biased and in my opinion an idiodic point of view
  1219. 01[22:40] <+flogger> but I suppose there's a question ;p
  1220. 01[22:40] <+flogger> but going forward
  1221. 01[22:40] <+flogger> as for the time, what range of times works for sanc
  1222. 01[22:40] <+flogger> we'll figure out what works for us, and get back to you within a day
  1223. 01[22:41] <+flogger> and we'll agree to find a time in that range that works, and you agree to re-institute your notice with fratz and OS
  1224. 01[22:41] <+flogger> and then we can all get to bed
  1225. [22:43] <+Megas> about notices
  1226. [22:43] <+Megas> we wont be taking back notices
  1227. [22:44] <+Megas> we will war you before others
  1228. [22:44] <+Megas> but we retract notices
  1229. [22:44] <+Megas> wont*
  1230. 01[22:44] <+flogger> well thats a deal breaker
  1231. [22:44] <+Megas> nah
  1232. [22:44] <@Deana> i gave the notices due to your refusal to renegociate, you still have pretty much refused to renegociate
  1233. [22:44] <+Megas> no deal breaker
  1234. 01[22:44] <+flogger> I have refused to negotiate?
  1235. 01[22:44] <+flogger> I've agreed to everything you've wanted?
  1236. [22:45] <+Megas> deal is in place we wont hit others before we war you
  1237. 01[22:45] <+flogger> and during our negotiations you were the one to stop talking to me
  1238. [22:45] <+Megas> so i dont see where we break the deal?
  1239. [22:45] <@Cheese> Ill take your word for it?
  1240. [22:45] <@Deana> and now you have added to it not wanting to agree to a time good for both sides
  1241. [22:45] <@Cheese> :)
  1242. 01[22:45] <+flogger> <@Deana> and now you have added to it not wanting to agree to a time good for both sides
  1243. 01[22:45] <+flogger> <+flogger> as for the time, what range of times works for sanc
  1244. 01[22:45] <+flogger> <+flogger> we'll figure out what works for us, and get back to you within a day
  1245. 01[22:45] <+flogger> <+flogger> and we'll agree to find a time in that range that works,
  1246. 01[22:45] <+flogger> deana no offense
  1247. 01[22:45] <+flogger> but are you fucking retarded?
  1248. 01[22:46] <+flogger> I mean seriously
  1249. 01[22:46] <+flogger> its like talking to a four year old
  1250. 01[22:46] <+flogger> and it upsets me greatly
  1251. [22:47] <@Deana> im not supposed to take offence to that :/
  1252. 01[22:47] <+flogger> you are
  1253. 01[22:47] <+flogger> but are you retarded?
  1254. 01[22:47] <+flogger> stop staying stupid ass shit if you don't want to be offended
  1255. [22:48] <@Deana> you also said you would renegociate the original deal, then wouldnt
  1256. 01[22:48] <+flogger> I have already
  1257. 01[22:49] <+flogger> you keep just making lines up which have no sense
  1258. [22:50] <@AquaSeaFoam> nothign changed from the original deal, however some additional clauses were added to it
  1259. 01[22:50] <+flogger> but 5 seconds ago she claimed I wouldn't agree to times that are good to both side
  1260. 01[22:50] <+flogger> and I just quoted what I said
  1261. 01[22:50] <+flogger> is english comprehension a problem here?
  1262. 01[22:51] <+flogger> how on earth is this not me agreeing to her time?
  1263. 01[22:51] <+flogger> <+flogger> <+flogger> as for the time, what range of times works for sanc
  1264. 01[22:51] <+flogger> <+flogger> <+flogger> we'll figure out what works for us, and get back to you within a day
  1265. 01[22:51] <+flogger> <+flogger> <+flogger> and we'll agree to find a time in that range that works,
  1266. [22:51] <+Megas> she was referring to 4th date you didnt want to change
  1267. 01[22:51] <+flogger> <+flogger> <+flogger> as for the time, what range of times works for sanc
  1268. 01[22:51] <+flogger> <+flogger> <+flogger> we'll figure out what works for us, and get back to you within a day
  1269. 01[22:51] <+flogger> <+flogger> <+flogger> and we'll agree to find a time in that range that works,
  1270. [22:51] <@CGG> and then he offerd to change
  1271. 01[22:51] <+flogger> this is me saying I'd change it!!!!!
  1272. [22:51] <@CGG> and he comment came after
  1273. 01[22:51] <+flogger> READ WHAT I SAY
  1274. [22:52] <@Deana> yeah, im retarded apparently
  1275. [22:52] <@AquaSeaFoam> ok, it's late
  1276. [22:52] <@AquaSeaFoam> ppl prob need sleep
  1277. [22:52] <@AquaSeaFoam> i know i do
  1278. [22:52] <+Megas> so anything aside 3-7 is ok
  1279. [22:52] <@Cheese> Nothings been settled?
  1280. [22:53] <+Megas> you need to read i think
  1281. [22:53] <+Megas> aside from war time most things settled
  1282. 01[22:53] <+flogger> so anything aside from 3-7 is fine on the time
  1283. [22:53] <+Megas> seems english comprehension problem is on both side
  1284. [22:53] <@Cheese> What else was there?
  1285. 01[22:53] <+flogger> as I said before
  1286. 01[22:53] <+flogger> we will get get back to you within a day
  1287. 01[22:54] <+flogger> once I talk to people about a time
  1288. 01[22:54] <+flogger> and when I say I'll get back to people
  1289. 01[22:54] <+flogger> I'll actually, like, get back to people
  1290. [22:54] <+Megas> read and u will understand i am not going over whole logs and find it out for you
  1291. 01[22:54] <+flogger> but the notice issue is still outstanding
  1292. 01[22:55] <+flogger> we flat out aren't going to make any sort of deal without the notice being retracted
  1293. 01[22:55] <+flogger> and there's no budging on that from our end
  1294. [22:55] <+Megas> giving notice has nothing to do with war with you
  1295. 01[22:55] <+flogger> as it make 0 sense for you to want to get vultured
  1296. [22:55] <@Deana> there was no deal with you concerning who we give notice to when
  1297. 01[22:55] <+flogger> this is me backing up my allies
  1298. [22:55] <+Megas> yea
  1299. 01[22:55] <+flogger> and I'm not going to leave them hanging
  1300. [22:55] <+Megas> we dont care about your allies
  1301. 01[22:55] <+flogger> well I don't care to deal then
  1302. [22:55] <+Megas> deal is we warring you
  1303. [22:55] <+Megas> which we are
  1304. 01[22:56] <+flogger> I've given enough concessions
  1305. [22:56] <+Megas> deal never included anything regarding allies
  1306. [22:56] <@Deana> what concessions?
  1307. [22:56] <+Megas> this is between pulse and sanc
  1308. [22:56] <+Megas> i dont remember seeing sanc cant give notice to other kd's
  1309. 01[22:56] <+flogger> there's no way fratz and OS are going to allow me to tell them that we will war sanc after their notice expires
  1310. 01[22:56] <+flogger> sanc can't give notice to other kds after you stalled me
  1311. [22:57] <+Megas> stalled?
  1312. 01[22:57] <+flogger> yes
  1313. [22:57] <+Megas> u got stalled by insolence
  1314. [22:57] <+Megas> not us
  1315. 01[22:57] <+flogger> megas you personally told me you'd give me a final answer over 24 hours ago
  1316. 01[22:57] <+flogger> and that did not occur
  1317. [22:57] <+Megas> does it change the fact we cant give notice to them? we are agree'ng to the deal
  1318. 01[22:57] <+flogger> I can get fratz and OS to both give you plenty of time to recover and not vulture
  1319. [22:58] <+Megas> we will war you
  1320. 01[22:58] <+flogger> this is non-negotiable
  1321. [22:58] <+Megas> time to recover?
  1322. [22:58] <+Megas> arent they fee'ng from challenge?
  1323. [22:58] <+Megas> running away*
  1324. [22:59] <+Megas> why do u care if we get vultured after war
  1325. 01[22:59] <+flogger> you can't get me to agree to give you notice which we didn't have, tell me you'll negotiate with me, stall me, then give my allies notice
  1326. [22:59] <+Megas> we want to take them on right after your war
  1327. [22:59] <+Megas> so thats our problem
  1328. 01[22:59] <+flogger> well then give them notice once we're in war
  1329. 01[22:59] <+flogger> but the notice WILL NOT expire before we war
  1330. [22:59] <+Megas> we wont hit them thats my word
  1331. 01[23:00] <+flogger> well then I'll leave that up to cheese
  1332. 01[23:00] <+flogger> cheese?
  1333. [23:00] <+Megas> you are free to hit us as if we do that
  1334. [23:00] <@CGG> You won't hit them before when?
  1335. [23:00] <+Megas> no
  1336. [23:00] <+Megas> we wont
  1337. [23:00] <@CGG> summarize it into 1 clear line
  1338. [23:00] <@CGG> "Sanctuary will not attack oldschool or fratzia before war with pulse is over"
  1339. [23:00] <@CGG> or similar
  1340. [23:01] <@Cheese> How do I know we wont be sitting here in 24 hours time because you didnt like that deal either, and wanted to hit them and then renegotiate that one too?
  1341. [23:01] <@Cheese> I dont feel comfortable placing my word in your hands
  1342. [23:01] <+Megas> "deal is sanc wont hit anyone else before pulse war,notices will not be retracted"
  1343. 01[23:01] <+flogger> I'm fine with that
  1344. 01[23:01] <+flogger> fratz I'm sure is
  1345. [23:01] <@CGG> Deana also agree?
  1346. 01[23:01] <+flogger> just gotta clear it with mod
  1347. [23:01] <@Deana> agree
  1348. [23:02] <@CGG> is AquaSeaFoam still here?
  1349. [23:02] <@AquaSeaFoam> cheese, i'm not sure what you are saying, but OS and fratzia are at sanc's word no matter waht
  1350. [23:02] <@Cheese> are at?
  1351. [23:02] <@AquaSeaFoam> as in if sanc wants to hit them they can
  1352. [23:02] <@AquaSeaFoam> but they gave their word they woudlnt
  1353. [23:02] <@AquaSeaFoam> so either youa ccept that or don't, right?
  1354. [23:02] <@AquaSeaFoam> jsut make sure that it's said clearly
  1355. 01[23:03] <+flogger> I'm fine with it
  1356. 01[23:04] <+flogger> have no earthly idea why they'd want that over retracting the notice
  1357. [23:04] <@Deana> me either :/
  1358. 01[23:04] <+flogger> but whatever
  1359. [23:04] <@AquaSeaFoam> me either, i could see a benefit to agreeing to war pulse no matter what but leaving it open to potentially hit OS/frat also
  1360. [23:05] <@AquaSeaFoam> and perhaps inviting a 2v1 to themselves
  1361. 01[23:05] <+flogger> why not just retract the notice if we all agree that's bad for sanc?
  1362. [23:05] <@AquaSeaFoam> but i dont see why cancel notices and also agree to not hit
  1363. 01[23:05] <+flogger> I just don't get it
  1364. [23:05] <@AquaSeaFoam> well i guess megas doesnt agree
  1365. [23:05] <@AquaSeaFoam> so it's up to sanc really
  1366. [23:05] <@Deana> im pretty confused myself
  1367. 01[23:05] <+flogger> so talk to your councilmate?
  1368. [23:06] <@Deana> trying to
  1369. [23:06] <@Deana> not replying
  1370. [23:06] <+Megas> what i am saying is why debate on this thing if we have all set things in place
  1371. 01[23:07] <+flogger> what we're saying is why are you set on doing something that in no way can be good for your kingdom?
  1372. 01[23:08] <+flogger> i.e. agreeing to drop notice with OS and fratz but agreeing not to hit them till after our war is over
  1373. 01[23:09] <+flogger> believe it or not I do enjoy non-vulturing relatively fair fights (sorry for picking warrior vs your tact)
  1374. 01[23:09] <+flogger> and we can probably get both OS and fratz to give you plenty of time to recover from the fight you're agreeing to with us
  1375. 01[23:10] <+flogger> why you'd want to hit or fight them immediately after EoA CF with us is a bit of a mystery to all involved
  1376. 01[23:10] <+flogger> errr I mean an EoW CF
  1377. 01[23:11] <+flogger> including apparantly your own councilmates
  1378. [23:11] <@CGG> <+Megas> "deal is sanc wont hit anyone else before pulse war,notices will not be retracted"
  1379. [23:11] <@CGG> -
  1380. [23:11] <@CGG> can we add to this
  1381. [23:11] <+Megas> main purpose of serving notice was originally not to let other cows pump freely
  1382. [23:11] <@CGG> "effective pending approval of mod, when he wakes up"
  1383. [23:11] <@CGG> ?
  1384. [23:12] <+Megas> anyone can understand that much
  1385. 01[23:12] <+flogger> well can't they pump freely anyways if you agree not to hit them?
  1386. [23:12] <@Deana> id think so
  1387. [23:12] <@AquaSeaFoam> yeah i'm not sure the point
  1388. [23:13] <@AquaSeaFoam> what would mod disagree with, that he wants sanc to be able to hit him?
  1389. [23:13] <@CGG> I don't know
  1390. [23:13] <@CGG> cheese says he doens't want to speak for mod
  1391. [23:13] <@Deana> 6 hours of negociating here though
  1392. [23:13] <@CGG> I assume he will accept it
  1393. 01[23:13] <+flogger> mod will be quite suspicious of us agreeing to war AFTER teh notice expires
  1394. [23:13] <@CGG> but maybe he says he doesn't accept it, then I guess sanc can hit him
  1395. [23:13] <@AquaSeaFoam> ther eis nothign at all mod needs to accept
  1396. [23:13] <@Deana> and we really havent accomplished much
  1397. 01[23:14] <+flogger> we've accomplished alot I think
  1398. [23:14] <@AquaSeaFoam> sanc agreed to not hit mod, it doesnt even say mod can't hit sanc
  1399. [23:14] <@CGG> okay then
  1400. [23:14] <@CGG> sounds good to me
  1401. [23:14] <@CGG> cheese?
  1402. [23:14] <@Cheese> agreed
  1403. [23:15] <@CGG> so, AquaSeaFoam, CGG, Cheese, Deana, flogger, and megas all agree to the statement <+Megas> "deal is sanc wont hit anyone else before pulse war,notices will not be retracted"
  1404. 01[23:15] <+flogger> fair enough, so we'll war sometime in May/June not to be June 3rd to 7th, we'll come back with the exact date, it won't be before May 20th, and we're settled
  1405. [23:15] <@Deana> i think id prefer to revoke the cf's if thats ok with you all
  1406. [23:15] <@CGG> everythign else is between sanc and pulse
  1407. 01[23:16] <+flogger> revoke the Cf's or revoke the notice gives?
  1408. [23:16] <@CGG> what do you mean revoke the cfs?
  1409. 01[23:16] <+flogger> we're fine with revoking the notice gives, I have no idea why you wouldn't want to yourself
  1410. [23:16] <@Deana> notice gives
  1411. 01[23:16] <+flogger> that's fine with us
  1412. [23:17] <@CGG> sigh
  1413. [23:17] <@CGG> megas/
  1414. [23:17] <@CGG> ?
  1415. [23:17] <@Cheese> holy shit
  1416. [23:17] <@Deana> i know
  1417. [23:17] <@Deana> and about that may thing
  1418. [23:17] <@Deana> we wont be ready til mid day
  1419. [23:18] <@Deana> thats not even 36 hours away?
  1420. 01[23:18] <+flogger> just tell me teh range you want
  1421. [23:18] <+Megas> we need about 45 tics to be ready exact
  1422. 01[23:18] <+flogger> and we'll accomodate
  1423. [23:18] <+Megas> ^
  1424. [23:18] <+Megas> so after that we can war
  1425. [23:18] <+Megas> no problem
  1426. 01[23:18] <+flogger> just tell me a date range
  1427. [23:19] <+Megas> and if you all insist on retracting notices then be it,so we can settle matter quickly
  1428. [23:19] <+Megas> anything after may 8th?
  1429. [23:20] <+Megas> upto may 24th
  1430. [23:20] <@Cheese> ????????????? we had agreed to just take your word for it, then you guys changed your mind and went back to asking to just retract notices, we didnt insist on shit
  1431. [23:20] <@Cheese> I swear
  1432. [23:20] <@CGG> deana insists, lol
  1433. [23:20] <@Deana> yeah, we dont do utopia handshakes
  1434. [23:20] <+Megas> u did now u didnt want to take my word
  1435. [23:20] <+Megas> dont u understand simple english?
  1436. [23:21] <@CGG> I'm going to need $10,000 deposits from everyone to guarentee these deals
  1437. [23:21] <@Cheese> CGG changed my mind and I had agreed
  1438. [23:21] <@CGG> you can paypal them to me
  1439. [23:21] <@Deana> thats the same cf arangement we had with 4:40
  1440. [23:21] <@Cheese> then you guys went back to what we asked for originally like an hour ago
  1441. [23:21] <@Deana> they just promised to not hit us
  1442. [23:21] <+Megas> u said i dont trust sanc for not hitting us
  1443. [23:21] <@Cheese> I dont, but cgg does
  1444. [23:21] <@Cheese> and i trust him
  1445. [23:21] <@Deana> well, i didnt want to agree at all
  1446. [23:21] <@Deana> but since Megas insisted
  1447. [23:21] <+Megas> cgg isnt sanc
  1448. [23:22] <+Megas> so
  1449. [23:22] <+Megas> you are dealing with us or not at all
  1450. 01[23:22] <+flogger> well OK, you said teh range is may 8th to May 24th, can we add june 8th to the 24th?
  1451. 01[23:22] <+flogger> as our originaly date was June 4th
  1452. [23:22] <@Deana> yeah flogger
  1453. [23:22] <+Megas> yeah anything after may 8th is ok
  1454. 01[23:23] <+flogger> ok, we will have a date in that range within 24h
  1455. 01[23:23] <+flogger> and hopefully within 12 hours
  1456. 01[23:23] <+flogger> we will declare at exactly the 30 minute mark of that hour
  1457. 01[23:23] <+flogger> you will hit us 4x the hour before
  1458. 01[23:24] <+flogger> or lets say at the start of said hour
  1459. 01[23:25] <+flogger> so are we agreed?
  1460. [23:26] <@Deana> agreed flogger
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