Public Pastes
daily pastebin goal
31%
SHARE
TWEET

Veterans on Reddit speak up.

a guest Mar 18th, 2015 337 Never
Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!
  1. [–]Reconsct 4 points 22 hours ago
  2.  
  3. I feel you, I really do. Still to this day I can't sleep in hopes of escaping the dreams of half the horrible shit that happened during my career. Myself, I enlisted pre- 9/11 and truth be told even deployments of "peacekeeping" prior to any actual "war" was just as convoluted and fucked. My story finally ended in Afghan about 3 years ago when I was severely injured, and as posted above just like any other Army property I was replaced. So here I sit now at 34 years old, body broken amd hoping to be taken care of by a system that is just as fucked. (The VA). I always hate when someone "thanks me for my service" the whole time I just think about how if they knew what that truly entailed, they would have probably offed themselves years ago. It's not even a matter a pride somedays but more a burden. Then everyone wonders why the suicide rate amongst military and vets is so damn high. After getting out I finally got a new tattoo. It is a simple phrase, and may seem cliche to many but to me it sums up 18 years and 6 deployments perfectly. "We stop looking for the monsters under our bed when we realize they are inside of us". If only the majority of civilians knew how damn true this phrase really is. Instead I don't feel like explaining, it really feels like a waste of time since you can't really make someone understand that wasn't there. Plus they wouldn't want to believe it anyhow. We aren't like that, we're the good guys. So instead they just thank me for my service, amd I either nod or give a uh huh, but either way I end up dying just a little more on the inside.
  4.  
  5.     permalink
  6.     save
  7.     parent
  8.     report
  9.     give gold
  10.     reply
  11.  
  12. [–]InfantryMatt 2 points 15 hours ago
  13.  
  14. you ever wanna talk about shit I am a quick message away
  15.  
  16.     permalink
  17.     save
  18.     parent
  19.     report
  20.     give gold
  21.     reply
  22.  
  23. [–]foodfighter 1935 points 5 months ago
  24.  
  25.     You grew up wanting so bad to be Luke Skywalker, but you realize that you were basically a Stormtrooper, a faceless, nameless rifleman, carrying a spear for empire
  26.  
  27. Damn, that was really well said.
  28.  
  29.     permalink
  30.     save
  31.     parent
  32.     report
  33.     give gold
  34.     reply
  35.  
  36. [–]mcdrunkin 76 points 1 day ago
  37.  
  38. It made me think of the movie Falling Down when it finally hits Michael Douglas, "I'm the bad guy?"
  39.  
  40.     permalink
  41.     save
  42.     parent
  43.     report
  44.     give gold
  45.     reply
  46.  
  47. [–]faithle55 25 points 1 day ago
  48.  
  49. I remember that as a strong, strong emotional scene. Michael Douglas was never better.
  50.  
  51.     permalink
  52.     save
  53.     parent
  54.     report
  55.     give gold
  56.     reply
  57.  
  58. [–]BONGLORD420 5 points 1 day ago
  59.  
  60. As soon as I read your comment, I stopped redditing to watch this movie. That was two hours ago. Just finished and I'm glad I did, it's great.
  61.  
  62. Thanks!
  63.  
  64.     permalink
  65.     save
  66.     parent
  67.     report
  68.     give gold
  69.     reply
  70.  
  71. load more comments (1 reply)
  72.  
  73. load more comments (1 reply)
  74.  
  75. [–]KvotheKingkilIer 161 points 1 day ago
  76.  
  77. Yeah, this one really hit home
  78.  
  79.     permalink
  80.     save
  81.     parent
  82.     report
  83.     give gold
  84.     reply
  85.  
  86. load more comments (6 replies)
  87.  
  88. [–]ImDALEY 35 points 1 day ago
  89.  
  90. That actually sent chills down my spine.
  91.  
  92.     permalink
  93.     save
  94.     parent
  95.     report
  96.     give gold
  97.     reply
  98.  
  99. load more comments (1 reply)
  100.  
  101. load more comments (6 replies)
  102.  
  103. [–]Mouth2005 807 points 5 months ago*
  104.  
  105. You know the hardest thing for me to grasp after getting out was that our rights and freedoms are basically nothing more than a slogan to pump up our troops. The longer and longer I'm out, I see that we as a people don't protect our rights from our own government; but we tell our boots they need to go protect them from <insert rival force here>
  106.  
  107. we say <insert rival force> is the biggest threat to America at the moment and start handing out rifles; Our young people go, they play a game of "them vs. us" and the winning prize is nothing more than keeping your life.......than you return to America and see the cops are running rampant--people don't care; Christianity is fighting to tare down freedom of religion and separation of church and state-- and no one cares; the middle class is being ripped apart (the group where the overwhelming majority of people currently reside) and no one cares?! businesses are favored in DC and allowed to buy our government--and again no one cares.........what the hell?
  108.  
  109. If we can't stand up for ourselves and our own rights in our own country!! what is the point of any war at all? The #1 ultimate reason for sending troops is to "protect our rights and freedom", "protect our way of life from people who want nothing else to destroy it", but we are destroying it ourself.......except we paint a different picture when we do it, we need to bend this right or that freedom to protect us from <insert current hot word (communist, terrorist, liberal)> it's done systematically, baby steps, but where does this road ultimately lead us?
  110.  
  111. Why should we go to someone else's house and strong arm them into immediately attempting our way of life, which took hundreds of years to create, when we are destroying it our selfs perfectly fine more and more by the day..........it's sad
  112.  
  113.     permalink
  114.     save
  115.     parent
  116.     report
  117.     give gold
  118.     reply
  119.  
  120. [–]Boronx 40 points 1 day ago
  121.  
  122. That's why they send kids to war. Not many middle aged folks would by the "we're protecting our freedoms" bullshit.
  123.  
  124.     permalink
  125.     save
  126.     parent
  127.     report
  128.     give gold
  129.     reply
  130.  
  131. [–]BenvolioMontague 20 points 1 day ago
  132.  
  133. Well you're convieniently ignoring the fact that not too many middle aged folks could handle rucking 30 miles with 150 pounds on their back and then fight for eight hours before they can call it a day. And by call it a day I mean sleep for 2-4 hours and then keep security until new orders are given.
  134.  
  135.     permalink
  136.     save
  137.     parent
  138.     report
  139.     give gold
  140.     reply
  141.  
  142. [–]shas_o_kais 6 points 1 day ago
  143.  
  144. Roman military service was 20 years and they would carry 75 pounds of gear. Back when your average roman was 4'11". No. That's not a typo. Four feet, eleven inches tall. They marched up to 20 miles a day.
  145.  
  146.     permalink
  147.     save
  148.     parent
  149.     report
  150.     give gold
  151.     reply
  152.  
  153. [–]Tetracyclic 4 points 1 day ago
  154.  
  155.     Back when your average roman was 4'11"
  156.  
  157. Huh?
  158.  
  159. Ray Laurence, Health and the Life Course at Herculaneum and Pompeii:
  160.  
  161.     The major samples from Herculaneum and Pompeii reveal the stature of the ancient adult body. The average height for females was calculated from the data to have been 155 cm in Herculaneum and 154 cm in Pompeii: that for males was 169 cm in Herculaneum and 166 cm in Pompeii. This is somewhat higher than the average height of modern Neapolitans in the 1960s and about 10 cm shorter than the WHO recommendations for modern world populations.
  162.  
  163. Jonathan P. Roth, The Logistics of the Roman Army at War: 264 BC-AD 235:
  164.  
  165.     Imperial regulations, though not entirely unambiguous, suggest that the minimum height for new recruits was five Roman feet, seven inches (165 cm., 5'5") [...] a reasonable estimate of a soldier's average height is around 170 cm (5'7").
  166.  
  167.     permalink
  168.     save
  169.     parent
  170.     report
  171.     give gold
  172.     reply
  173.  
  174. [–]shas_o_kais 4 points 1 day ago*
  175.  
  176. I remember when I went to Rome, based on the size of the catacombs that they said they were 4'11". Guess we'll need an askHistorian to clarify.
  177.  
  178. The first quote you gave was from just two cities. I'm wondering of there was a larger sample.
  179.  
  180. But either way, let's go with your numbers. The point I was trying to make was that you don't necessarily need 18 year olds to do the physically hard stuff.
  181.  
  182.     permalink
  183.     save
  184.     parent
  185.     report
  186.     give gold
  187.     reply
  188.  
  189. load more comments (2 replies)
  190.  
  191. load more comments (2 replies)
  192.  
  193. load more comments (2 replies)
  194.  
  195. [–]alecesne 18 points 1 day ago
  196.  
  197. You keep saying "no one cares"... but it seems like everyone you meek CARES... its just that no one knows what to do about it (or everyone has different ideas about what to do and most do nothing because its hard, and expensive, and possibly dangerous).
  198.  
  199.     permalink
  200.     save
  201.     parent
  202.     report
  203.     give gold
  204.     reply
  205.  
  206. [–]arv98s 17 points 1 day ago
  207.  
  208. I have no idea what to do about it.
  209.  
  210.     permalink
  211.     save
  212.     parent
  213.     report
  214.     give gold
  215.     reply
  216.  
  217. load more comments (2 replies)
  218.  
  219. load more comments (1 reply)
  220.  
  221. [–]jaeldi 284 points 1 day ago
  222.  
  223. to quote a bad movie: "So that's how democracy dies, with thunderous applause." - Queen Amidala
  224.  
  225. I always thought it was so strange of Lucas to make a Queen fight for democracy. Seems counter-intuitive.
  226.  
  227.     permalink
  228.     save
  229.     parent
  230.     report
  231.     give gold
  232.     reply
  233.  
  234. [–]DarkwingDuc 69 points 1 day ago
  235.  
  236. Other relevant quotes:
  237.  
  238. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Source unclear, 1930's
  239.  
  240. or
  241.  
  242. "But he saw too that in America the struggle was befogged by the fact that the worst Fascists were they who disowned the word 'Fascism' and preached enslavement to Capitalism under the style of Constitutional and Traditional Native American Liberty." - Lewis Sinclair, 1935
  243.  
  244.     permalink
  245.     save
  246.     parent
  247.     report
  248.     give gold
  249.     reply
  250.  
  251. [–]ramplocals 33 points 1 day ago
  252.  
  253.     When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross
  254.  
  255. They attribute that quote to Sinclair Lewis (maybe incorrectly, though). His Wife Dorothy Thompson had quite a way with words as well, "No people ever recognize their dictator in advance. He never stands for election on the platform of dictatorship. He always represents himself as the instrument — the Incorporated National Will. … When our dictator turns up you can depend on it that he will be one of the boys, and he will stand for everything traditionally American. And nobody will ever say "Heil" to him, nor will they call him "Führer" or "Duce." But they will greet him with one great big, universal, democratic, sheeplike bleat of "O.K., Chief! Fix it like you wanna, Chief! Oh Kaaaay!"
  256.  
  257.     permalink
  258.     save
  259.     parent
  260.     report
  261.     give gold
  262.     reply
  263.  
  264. [–]tagehring 3 points 1 day ago
  265.  
  266. He might not have originated it, but Sinclair Lewis did have a character say it in "It Can't Happen Here," about the rise of a fascist movement in the US in the 1930s.
  267.  
  268.     permalink
  269.     save
  270.     parent
  271.     report
  272.     give gold
  273.     reply
  274.  
  275. [–]thrownaway_MGTOW 2 points 23 hours ago
  276.  
  277.     His Wife Dorothy Thompson had quite a way with words as well, "No people ever recognize their dictator in advance. He never stands for election on the platform of dictatorship. He always represents himself as the instrument — the Incorporated National Will. … When our dictator turns up you can depend on it that he will be one of the boys, and he will stand for everything traditionally American. And nobody will ever say "Heil" to him, nor will they call him "Führer" or "Duce." But they will greet him with one great big, universal, democratic, sheeplike bleat of "O.K., Chief! Fix it like you wanna, Chief! Oh Kaaaay!"
  278.  
  279. The ultimate irony of course is that when she wrote that, just such a dictator had only recently been elected (in the US itself) a few years prior, and been told exactly that once ensconced in office.
  280.  
  281. Nor was he the first, nor will he be the last.
  282.  
  283.     permalink
  284.     save
  285.     parent
  286.     report
  287.     give gold
  288.     reply
  289.  
  290. [–]LosingMyEdge7 6 points 1 day ago
  291.  
  292. It seemed pretty innocuous at the time but one of the most valuable things I was ever forced to learn in college was a Communications class mandatory for business that taught us about logical fallacies and how to spot them. How susceptible people are to emotional appeals and words with charged meanings or "buzz words" is shocking IMO. Maybe I'm strange but alarms go off in my head when anyone attempts to tug at my heartstrings or uses shitty words that have been used so often they're completely divorced from their original definition. There's a formula for establishing credibility in this day and age. If you don't understand it you'll be manipulated by the people who have mastered it. If you do you'll probably be pessimistic and probably sad more than anything deep down.
  293.  
  294.     permalink
  295.     save
  296.     parent
  297.     report
  298.     give gold
  299.     reply
  300.  
  301. [–]Clewin 3 points 1 day ago
  302.  
  303. Incidentally, Hitler never ran as a Fascist, his party was the National Socialist Party. The Nazi party was seen as the best alternative to the Communist Party because they supported capitalism. Hitler's interpretation of the meaning of socialism is very different than any other I've ever heard - something like "if everyone has food and a place to live, they have socialism."
  304.  
  305. I have a feeling if it comes to America, it will be under a similar veil.
  306.  
  307.     permalink
  308.     save
  309.     parent
  310.     report
  311.     give gold
  312.     reply
  313.  
  314. load more comments (1 reply)
  315.  
  316. [–]cmays90 121 points 1 day ago
  317.  
  318. She was elected queen. It's not like she ruled over a complete monarchy. Naboo is at least a republic.
  319.  
  320.     permalink
  321.     save
  322.     parent
  323.     report
  324.     give gold
  325.     reply
  326.  
  327. [–]DoYouCali 73 points 1 day ago
  328.  
  329. Because electing a teenage girl to be supreme ruler in a time of crisis makes sense.
  330.  
  331. Except it doesn't.
  332.  
  333.     permalink
  334.     save
  335.     parent
  336.     report
  337.     give gold
  338.     reply
  339.  
  340. [–]andhelostthem 84 points 1 day ago
  341.  
  342. Well she was certainly less corrupt than the older Senator they elected...
  343.  
  344.     permalink
  345.     save
  346.     parent
  347.     report
  348.     give gold
  349.     reply
  350.  
  351. [–]DoYouCali 34 points 1 day ago
  352.  
  353. That's a really good point. The prequels harp so much on the importance of democracy, but look what happens when you let these idiots vote!
  354.  
  355.     permalink
  356.     save
  357.     parent
  358.     report
  359.     give gold
  360.     reply
  361.  
  362. [–]Falling_Pies 167 points 1 day ago
  363.  
  364. The point of the prequels isn't the harp on democracy. If you go down the time line from movie 1 to movie 6 then you see a retreat from decadence. The story of the jedi order is a particularly good case study to show the larger albeit buried themes. It had basically become an order that kidnapped children and indoctrinated them into the jedi way. The temple was a billion credit construct in the nicest district of the most important planet of the entire solar system where the jedi council was actively participating in government, which is not the jedi way.
  365.  
  366. The story is often missed because the prequels seem so fucking stupid (which honestly, they highlight all the wrong parts of the journey) but behind the ridiculous love story the point trying to be made is that decadence on such a large scale breeds corruption. Corruption that is so deep that even epic orders of heroes and martyrs are completely unable to stop the rising tide of evil. In fact the corruption is so strong that the champion of the good guys is corrupted and wipes out his own team.
  367.  
  368. Yoda even realizes his mistake, the mistake of the entire jedi order, which was making themselves a centerpiece and losing touch with the force. When Yoda is training younglings in the prequels he tells them basically to white wash their emotions. To just be stoic and uncaring. After the fall, Yoda teaches Luke to be deeply in touch with his emotions and to control how he feels rather than to not feel at all. And to top it all off, the very thing that the prequel jedi trained to suppress, emotions particularly love in this case, saves Luke and defeats the empire.
  369.  
  370. This is a little off my point now, but a beautiful duality in the series is Anakin's love. Anakin wildly loves padme and rebels against the order, changing history forever and then years down the line Anakins love for his son is so powerful that it reignites the light inside of him and in one action Anakin is able to reverse nearly all the damage he has done. Anakin removes himself from the decadence of the Empire and just before he dies, he yearns to be in touch with the world one more time and removes his helmet. In that moment, Darth Vader brings balance to the force through the eradication of the known Sith in the universe. Vader's return to the light ended to rule of 2, ended the decadence of the Empire and prove to Luke that no one was too far gone to do good.
  371.  
  372. Also back on the point of democracy, it's not a powerful man that destroys the democracy but one really well meaning fool who got played. Gotta give it to Jar Jar for being the most unintentionally evil do-gooder ever.
  373.  
  374.     permalink
  375.     save
  376.     parent
  377.     report
  378.     give gold
  379.     reply
  380.  
  381. [–]Grillburg 22 points 1 day ago
  382.  
  383. Bingo! Someone said that the prequels basically make Anakin the equivalent of Jesus in The Last Temptation of Christ. His destiny was to bring balance to the force, but he got sidetracked by his own desires and the world (galaxy) suffered for decades until he fixed his mistake by sacrificing himself to save his son.
  384.  
  385.     permalink
  386.     save
  387.     parent
  388.     report
  389.     give gold
  390.     reply
  391.  
  392. [–]mindhawk 18 points 1 day ago
  393.  
  394. thank you for this you may have just made me want to rewatch the series for the first time, i think you saved star wars for me. here have an upvote.
  395.  
  396.     permalink
  397.     save
  398.     parent
  399.     report
  400.     give gold
  401.     reply
  402.  
  403. load more comments (1 reply)
  404.  
  405. load more comments (13 replies)
  406.  
  407. [–]pikk 6 points 1 day ago
  408.  
  409. you get fucking Jar Jar Binks, who VOLUNTARILY handed over power to palpatine
  410.  
  411.     permalink
  412.     save
  413.     parent
  414.     report
  415.     give gold
  416.     reply
  417.  
  418. load more comments (1 reply)
  419.  
  420. [–]JustAMinuteAnHourAgo 11 points 1 day ago
  421.  
  422. But they were being manipulated, by a war manufactured to generate fear. Which is a lot of what this thread is discussing.
  423.  
  424.     permalink
  425.     save
  426.     parent
  427.     report
  428.     give gold
  429.     reply
  430.  
  431. [–]marwynn 17 points 1 day ago
  432.  
  433. The program she belonged to was meant to train geniuses at a young age since politics is a way of life and you'll need a lifetime's experience with it. Almost like being a Roman Senator.
  434.  
  435.     permalink
  436.     save
  437.     parent
  438.     report
  439.     give gold
  440.     reply
  441.  
  442. load more comments (2 replies)
  443.  
  444. [–]ICanLiftACarUp 15 points 1 day ago
  445.  
  446. it still doesn't make sense, but it wasn't yet a 'time of crisis' when they elected her. Sure there were some people wanting to leave, but naboo was not one of those. It was a peaceful planet with no expectations of war. Then the trade federation shows up and lord sidious is all sithy and stuff.
  447.  
  448.     permalink
  449.     save
  450.     parent
  451.     report
  452.     give gold
  453.     reply
  454.  
  455. [–]majesticjell0 8 points 1 day ago
  456.  
  457. "All sithy and stuff" accurate.
  458.  
  459.     permalink
  460.     save
  461.     parent
  462.     report
  463.     give gold
  464.     reply
  465.  
  466. [–]devals 22 points 1 day ago
  467.  
  468. A young queen once said simply, at her coronation, "I will be good." That was Queen Victoria, age 18. Sometimes youth, innocence, is a plus.
  469.  
  470.     permalink
  471.     save
  472.     parent
  473.     report
  474.     give gold
  475.     reply
  476.  
  477. load more comments (3 replies)
  478.  
  479. [–]zeekaran 49 points 1 day ago
  480.  
  481. You could judge people blindly on age, or think that maybe the people voted for her because she was brilliant and not bought by the Trade Fed or Banking Clan to turn over the planet for profit and whatever other good stuff she did.
  482.  
  483.     permalink
  484.     save
  485.     parent
  486.     report
  487.     give gold
  488.     reply
  489.  
  490. [–]SwenKa 39 points 1 day ago
  491.  
  492. Think of it this way: We're gonna need some extremely young and fresh blood that still holds their ideals high to overturn decades and decades of bought-out corporate monkeys.
  493.  
  494.     permalink
  495.     save
  496.     parent
  497.     report
  498.     give gold
  499.     reply
  500.  
  501. [–]Nimitz87 3 points 1 day ago
  502.  
  503. but how to those young fresh blood who hold their ideals highly become politicians?
  504.  
  505.     permalink
  506.     save
  507.     parent
  508.     report
  509.     give gold
  510.     reply
  511.  
  512. [–]zeekaran 9 points 1 day ago
  513.  
  514. I was talking about Star Wars.
  515.  
  516.     permalink
  517.     save
  518.     parent
  519.     report
  520.     give gold
  521.     reply
  522.  
  523. [–]LanceGD 13 points 1 day ago
  524.  
  525. we're talking about lots of stuff
  526.  
  527.     permalink
  528.     save
  529.     parent
  530.     report
  531.     give gold
  532.     reply
  533.  
  534. load more comments (3 replies)
  535.  
  536. [–]SwenKa 5 points 1 day ago
  537.  
  538. Oh, I am aware. I was saying that, similarly, we will need someone not pre-controlled.
  539.  
  540.     permalink
  541.     save
  542.     parent
  543.     report
  544.     give gold
  545.     reply
  546.  
  547. [–]NotRoryWilliams 2 points 1 day ago
  548.  
  549. You do realize the irony, right? She was pre-controlled and didn't even know it.
  550.  
  551.     permalink
  552.     save
  553.     parent
  554.     report
  555.     give gold
  556.     reply
  557.  
  558. load more comments (1 reply)
  559.  
  560. load more comments (1 reply)
  561.  
  562. [–]charonpdx 25 points 1 day ago
  563.  
  564. Nogales, Arizona had a 19 year old elected mayor a few years ago. He was widely considered the best mayor in a while. (Admittedly, Nogales is a fairly small town, and Nogales, Mexico across the border a much larger city.)
  565.  
  566.     permalink
  567.     save
  568.     parent
  569.     report
  570.     give gold
  571.     reply
  572.  
  573. [–]CanadianWaldo 10 points 1 day ago
  574.  
  575. Talkeetna ak has a cat for a mayor
  576.  
  577.     permalink
  578.     save
  579.     parent
  580.     report
  581.     give gold
  582.     reply
  583.  
  584. load more comments (1 reply)
  585.  
  586. load more comments (2 replies)
  587.  
  588. [–]codenewt 5 points 1 day ago
  589.  
  590. Well, then I recommend you read this. Enjoy. :)
  591.  
  592.     permalink
  593.     save
  594.     parent
  595.     report
  596.     give gold
  597.     reply
  598.  
  599. [–]spikedkushiel 4 points 1 day ago
  600.  
  601. She was trained in politics, went to a prestige college so its not like she was just a little girl they happens to pick up off the streets and say want to be queen?
  602.  
  603.     permalink
  604.     save
  605.     parent
  606.     report
  607.     give gold
  608.     reply
  609.  
  610. [–]Halligan1409 5 points 1 day ago
  611.  
  612.     Because electing a teenage girl to be supreme ruler in a time of crisis makes sense.
  613.  
  614.     Except it doesn't.
  615.  
  616. Almost like North Korea.
  617.  
  618.     permalink
  619.     save
  620.     parent
  621.     report
  622.     give gold
  623.     reply
  624.  
  625. [–]MeaMaximaCunt 4 points 1 day ago
  626.  
  627. You mean all those elections and choices they have?
  628.  
  629.     permalink
  630.     save
  631.     parent
  632.     report
  633.     give gold
  634.     reply
  635.  
  636. [–]Clewin 3 points 1 day ago
  637.  
  638. North Korea has elections every 5 years. You can vote for Kim or get sent to a detention camp along with every family member within 3 generations of you.
  639.  
  640. Seeing that the position is queen, it could also be a traditional hereditary position and the vote is essentially a show of faith and would only be cast against her if she were a really bad queen. I believe there might be real world examples of this.
  641.  
  642.     permalink
  643.     save
  644.     parent
  645.     report
  646.     give gold
  647.     reply
  648.  
  649. load more comments (2 replies)
  650.  
  651. [–]Halligan1409 2 points 1 day ago
  652.  
  653. No. More like the teenage girl part as supreme leader
  654.  
  655.     permalink
  656.     save
  657.     parent
  658.     report
  659.     give gold
  660.     reply
  661.  
  662. load more comments (10 replies)
  663.  
  664. load more comments (1 reply)
  665.  
  666. [–]Raven_Biter 10 points 1 day ago
  667.  
  668. As bad as the prequels were. That line was magnificent.
  669.  
  670.     permalink
  671.     save
  672.     parent
  673.     report
  674.     give gold
  675.     reply
  676.  
  677. [–]rrasco09 3 points 1 day ago
  678.  
  679.     So that's how democracy dies, with thunderous applause.
  680.  
  681. At the time the prequels were coming out I always thought it was intriguing how the coorelation was made between the movies and current events in the US. I always presumed that was done intentionally to highlight what was going on in the world "today".
  682.  
  683.     permalink
  684.     save
  685.     parent
  686.     report
  687.     give gold
  688.     reply
  689.  
  690. load more comments (1 reply)
  691.  
  692. [–]creatorhoborg 1 point 1 day ago
  693.  
  694. I always saw it as a Constitutional Monarchy, similar to what we have here in the UK.
  695.  
  696.     permalink
  697.     save
  698.     parent
  699.     report
  700.     give gold
  701.     reply
  702.  
  703. load more comments (10 replies)
  704.  
  705. [–]mopecore 72 points 5 months ago
  706.  
  707. Exactly, bro. Exactly this. He who would trade essential liberty for some temporary security will lose both and deserves neither.
  708.  
  709. We need to stop being so goddamned scared of each other.
  710.  
  711.     permalink
  712.     save
  713.     parent
  714.     report
  715.     give gold
  716.     reply
  717.  
  718. [–]rumsfeldish 24 points 1 day ago
  719.  
  720. Dude, most of us do feel this way. It is the media and politicians who keep things going in this direction. Perpetual war is a business. We have to find a way to start using are votes to back specific legislation not politicians.
  721.  
  722.     permalink
  723.     save
  724.     parent
  725.     report
  726.     give gold
  727.     reply
  728.  
  729. [–]igiveonefuck 21 points 1 day ago
  730.  
  731. "No problem can be solved by the same level of consciousness that created it". We need to do what Iceland did and rewrite some shit.
  732.  
  733.     permalink
  734.     save
  735.     parent
  736.     report
  737.     give gold
  738.     reply
  739.  
  740. [–]matrim611 18 points 1 day ago*
  741.  
  742. We're already rewriting shit. We need to change who is rewriting shit.
  743.  
  744. EDIT: I'm not talking about just putting another politician into power, or even different congressional persons. I'm getting at a... well, there's no other word for it; Radical shift in the way our Democracy functions.
  745.  
  746. For a (supposed) Democratic Republic our general citizenry has a frighteningly small voice in how Government actually functions. I, personally, strongly feel that it's time for that to change.
  747.  
  748. For starters: Abolish the Electoral College.
  749.  
  750.     permalink
  751.     save
  752.     parent
  753.     report
  754.     give gold
  755.     reply
  756.  
  757. [–]mindhawk 3 points 1 day ago
  758.  
  759. its important to realize how radical the recent legal changes are, tpp, financial services modernization act, nclb,charter schools, etc etc these are radical not conservative changes.
  760.  
  761.     permalink
  762.     save
  763.     parent
  764.     report
  765.     give gold
  766.     reply
  767.  
  768. [–]war-scribe 2 points 1 day ago
  769.  
  770. And term limits. We have elected officials making policy decisions that have been in office since before we had a space program! That is not the person I want making subject matter expert level decisions.
  771.  
  772.     permalink
  773.     save
  774.     parent
  775.     report
  776.     give gold
  777.     reply
  778.  
  779. load more comments (1 reply)
  780.  
  781. [–]rumsfeldish 8 points 1 day ago
  782.  
  783. There is big business, big government, but no big public..
  784.  
  785. What about a crowd-funding tool where the people can endorse specific legislation with either money or their votes (depending on if its an election year)? Not saying we should have to pay to get legislation passed but it's something that might work. And make people feel like there votes actually have some influence again.
  786.  
  787.     permalink
  788.     save
  789.     parent
  790.     report
  791.     give gold
  792.     reply
  793.  
  794. load more comments (5 replies)
  795.  
  796. [–]salsasymphony 6 points 1 day ago
  797.  
  798. As someone who recently ran for a local county seat spoke to me, the nature of politics in America requires so much subversion and compromise of one's personal values, that by the time even a well-intentioned candidate reaches a level high enough to initiate change, they are not the same person as when they started.
  799.  
  800.     permalink
  801.     save
  802.     parent
  803.     report
  804.     give gold
  805.     reply
  806.  
  807. load more comments (3 replies)
  808.  
  809. [–]Alonminatti 3 points 1 day ago
  810.  
  811. /r/benfranklin
  812.  
  813.     permalink
  814.     save
  815.     parent
  816.     report
  817.     give gold
  818.     reply
  819.  
  820. load more comments (2 replies)
  821.  
  822. [–]ZK1371 2 points 1 day ago
  823.  
  824. Hey, I'm Zack. I did two tours to Afghanistan and I can't agree with you more. I was incredibly moved by this post and created /r/VeteransAgainstWar for more things like this to be discussed by veterans and civilians alike. The things that we saw wherever we were need to be told to the voters. Hope to see you around and I hope everything's going well
  825.  
  826.     permalink
  827.     save
  828.     parent
  829.     report
  830.     give gold
  831.     reply
  832.  
  833. load more comments (15 replies)
  834.  
  835. [–]NightlyReaper 65 points 1 day ago
  836.  
  837. 22 year retiree here. The time you spent "in- theater" I spent in GTMO helping babysit terrorists. I didn't spend any time at the front. I had a chance to go with another unit that had a vacancy I could fill but my unit got deployed to GTMO and I decided to deploy with my unit. The guy they found to fill my spot in the other unit died in a fiery helo crash 3 months later. I never even saw Iraq, but I still have guilt.
  838.  
  839. I am not sorry that I never saw combat. I have never met anyone who shot someone in the line of duty that was happy about it.
  840.  
  841. After I retired, I was forced to question many of these same issues. I too found myself realizing that the truth is far different from the propaganda and that "the troops" are just a tool. A tool often wielded by madmen drunk on power and money.
  842.  
  843. The worst realization of all is that just by making these remarks I could wind up on some CIA watch-list because of all of the surveillance now. This is not the freedom that we were fighting for! This is wrong! Everyone sees it. No one cares. Wake up America!
  844.  
  845.     permalink
  846.     save
  847.     parent
  848.     report
  849.     give gold
  850.     reply
  851.  
  852. [–]mcdrunkin 9 points 1 day ago
  853.  
  854. Many of us are awake. But now what do we do?
  855.  
  856.     permalink
  857.     save
  858.     parent
  859.     report
  860.     give gold
  861.     reply
  862.  
  863. [–]randywatson666 4 points 1 day ago
  864.  
  865. Don't hide it. Help wake others up. Spread the knowledge. Help people understand.
  866.  
  867.     permalink
  868.     save
  869.     parent
  870.     report
  871.     give gold
  872.     reply
  873.  
  874. [–]lennybird 3 points 1 day ago
  875.  
  876. I recommend reading and watching docs about the Vietnam soldiers who opposed the war and conscientiously objected. Start with the documentary, Sir! No Sir! I have no military background, but I think this helps illuminate the impact dissenters or even retired can have.
  877.  
  878. [–]mopecore 5063 points 5 months agox22
  879.  
  880.     How do you as a people walk around head held high, knowing that every few months you are committing a 9/11 event to other people. Imagine if the 9/11 terror attacks were happening in america every few months. Again and again, innocent people dying all around you. Your brothers and sisters. For no reason.
  881.  
  882. Many of us are unable. Many of us watched 9/11, and accepted the government and media's definition of the attack as a act of war rather than a criminal action. A smaller portion, drifting along passively thought a major war was coming, that people we knew were going to fight and die. Some of us maybe worried about our younger brother being drafted, despite being in college. Now, it seems stupid, but in the 72 hours after 9/11, some Americans, maybe suffering from depression, certainly with a mind shaped by comic books and action movies, ate up the "us vs. them" good vs. evil rhetoric spouted by the cowboy in chief. After all, he was the president, and no matter how bright you might think yourself, you can still be swayed by passion and emotion, led to terrible decisions.
  883.  
  884. Some of us, therefore, left our dorm rooms, and walked down Main Street to the recruiter's office. Some of us were genuinely surprised the office wasn't full to bursting of young men eager to avenge their fallen countrymen. Some of us were genuinely surprised when we had to push the recruiter to stop trying to sell desk jobs and just let us join the damn Infantry.
  885.  
  886. Some of us got enlisted, then, and went down to Georgia, head high to mask the anxiety and fear they might have helped. Perhaps some number of Americans in this situation discovered that maybe it hadn't been the best idea, but would be goddamned if they were going to admit it, and let everyone back home smuggly remark on how right they were.
  887.  
  888. So they persevere. They learn to work as a unit, to look past personality issues, to see each other as Soldiers rather than as a race, or economic status, or any of the other things people hate about each other.
  889.  
  890. They learn to kill.
  891.  
  892. Then some of these people, perhaps while sitting hungover in the platoon area in the Republic of Korea hear that we have invaded Iraq. They have "Big Scary Bombs", and Saddam Hussein, the secular Arab dictator had somehow colluded with the devoutly religious OBL to attack the US. They hated our freedom, you see.
  893.  
  894. Then some of these young American men might transfer back to Georgia and be assigned to the 3rd Infantry Division, and end up in Iraq in January of 2005. And maybe these kids, still drunk on Fox News and fantasies of glory and renown being enough to win their ex-girlfriends back, are excited to go to Iraq. Sure, we hadn't found any WMDs yet, and we had Hussein in custody, but they were still somehow a threat and had to be dragged kicking and screaming into Jeffersonian democracy. Inside every dirka is a good American, yearning to be free.
  895.  
  896. So you fight. You kill. Watch friends die. Its usually quick, almost never quiet, but for the rest of your life, when you remember sitting at the bar with them, they're blown open. You picture the nights you spent downtown at Scruffy Murphy's, but instead of the stupid hookah shell necklace, your boy's jaw is blown off, and his left eye is ruined, and he's screaming.
  897.  
  898. You fight, you kill, you watch friends die, and you notice a distinct lack of change. You kick in doors and tell terrified women to sit on the floor while you and your friends ransack their home, tearing the place apart, because they might be hiding weapons. There is no reason to believe this house in particular is enemy, same for the next one, and the one after that, or the seven before; they just happened to be there, and maybe they had weapons. Probably not, they almost never did. There were a few times when we had deliberate raids based on solid intel and we'd turn up some stuff, but generally we were just tossing houses because we could.
  899.  
  900. Then maybe your FISTer forgets to carry the remainder, and drops a mess of mortars on the village your supposed to protect. Maybe the big Iraqi running at you screaming was just mentally ill. Of course, you won't know this until after you've but seven rounds through his ribcage, and his wailing, ancient mother is cradling his body, spitting at you.
  901.  
  902. Maybe when you get back to the FOB, the Platoon Sergeant tells you you did the right thing; next time, it might be a suicide bomber. They tell you it was an honest mistake, it wasn't your fault. They tell you to go get some chow, take a shower if the water works, and sleep it off. You did good work that day, apparently.
  903.  
  904. During chow, the TV is on AFN, and they are rebroadcasting some Fox News show, and you're hearing about drone strikes, and all the great things we're doing, and you can't help but see that poor dumb assholes face, looking past his mother as he bleeds to death. He's in pain, obviously, but he has the most perfectly confused look on his face. He doesn't comprehend what's happening. Little more hot sauce on your eggs doesn't really help.
  905.  
  906. Then you realize you haven't seen anything to support the idea that these poor fuckers are a threat to your home. You look around and you see all he contractors making six figure salaries to fix your shit, train Iraqis, maintain the ridiculous SUVs the KBR dicks ride around in. You consider the fact that every 25mm shell costs about forty bucks, and your company has been handing those fuckers out like shrapnel flavored parade candies. You think about all the fuel you're going through, all the ammo and missiles and grenades. You think about every time you lose a vehicle, the Army buys a new one. Maybe you start to see a lot of people making a lot of money on huge amounts of human suffering.
  907.  
  908. Then you go on leave, and realize that Ayn Rand has no idea what the fuck she's talking about. You realize that Fox News and Limbaugh and John McCain don't respect you or your buddies. They don't give a fuck if you get a parade or a box when you get home, you're nothing to them but a prop.
  909.  
  910. Then you get out, and you hate the news. You hate the apathy, and you hate the murder being carried out in your name. You grew up wanting so bad to be Luke Skywalker, but you realize that you were basically a Stormtrooper, a faceless, nameless rifleman, carrying a spear for empire, and you start to accept the startlingly obvious truth that these are people like you.
  911.  
  912. Maybe your heart breaks a little every time some asshole brags about a "successful" drone strike.
  913.  
  914. Your statement is correct enough; if all of America was one dude, that dude would not give a shit about the little brown people we're burning and crushing and choking to death. We aren't all like that, but it makes me incredibly, profoundly sad to see what my country actually is.
  915.  
  916. Some of us care, and I think there are more every day.
  917.  
  918.     permalink
  919.     unsave
  920.     parent
  921.     report
  922.     give gold
  923.     reply
  924.  
  925. [–]InfantryMatt 192 points 1 day ago
  926.  
  927. a year ago my unit asked why I wouldn't re enlist. I was a great leader they said, I knew my shit, I was going places. It's hard to re enlist when you work for a company that says they are saving people. When you are in ambush with 15 "enemies" on the rooftop next to your building and you pull in a 17 year old kid whos bathroom you have been holed up in all night basically hiding, you have to pull him in, have to put him face down in a pile of his own shit. So he doesn't go blabbing to everyone that you are there waiting to ambush any enemy nearby. Then someone in charge of you asks if you would tell if they killed that boy, for no reason other than he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. They had a drop pistol taken off another enemy from a previous date. We could kill him, say he pulled a pistol and be done with it. No one would ever know. When they asked if I would tell anyone, and I said no, and I meant it. Thats the moment I realized I wasn't a hero, but an enemy. A terrible person. Thats the day I realized we really were monsters and terrorists, just as bad as the enemy.
  928.  
  929. We didnt kill that kid, but something inside me died that day, and thats the real reason I cant re enlist, and be apart of this. I want to gain my humanity back
  930.  
  931.     permalink
  932.     save
  933.     parent
  934.     report
  935.     give gold
  936.     reply
  937.  
  938. [–]drinkmorecoffee 67 points 1 day ago
  939.  
  940. You and mopecore should write a book. Seriously. Stories like this need to be told. They're so far off from what we're spoonfed on the news that it's sickening.
  941.  
  942. Civilians have no way of knowing what you go through unless you tell us. No one else will.
  943.  
  944.     permalink
  945.     save
  946.     parent
  947.     report
  948.     give gold
  949.     reply
  950.  
  951. [–]ZK1371 33 points 1 day ago
  952.  
  953. Hi, I'm an Afghan vet and it took me a little while, but I started making myself ok with telling people about the horrible shit we had to do there. I figured that these people have to vote and hopefully through democratic means, we can stop anyone else from having to do that shit
  954.  
  955.     permalink
  956.     save
  957.     parent
  958.     report
  959.     give gold
  960.     reply
  961.  
  962. [–]Pipstydoo 21 points 1 day ago
  963.  
  964. Why do you think they worked so hard to shape the media starting with things like not showing the flag-wrapped coffins coming back?
  965.  
  966. The horror stories coming out of Vietnam galvanized people into action at home because they were actually allowed to see them.
  967.  
  968. Keep telling people your stories because they need to know.
  969.  
  970.     permalink
  971.     save
  972.     parent
  973.     report
  974.     give gold
  975.     reply
  976.  
  977. [–]foobar5678 11 points 1 day ago
  978.  
  979. Nah, the only difference (at least the only one that matters) between those two wars is that there was a draft for Vietnam. The government learnt their lesson. If you draft people, there will be riots. Much easier to pump out propaganda.
  980.  
  981.     permalink
  982.     save
  983.     parent
  984.     report
  985.     give gold
  986.     reply
  987.  
  988. [–]elbenji 12 points 1 day ago
  989.  
  990. Yup. When the kids of doctors and lawyers started getting picked up, people gave a shit. Not Joey from Kansas City, Miguel from Brownsville, or DeAndre from the South Side
  991.  
  992.     permalink
  993.     save
  994.     parent
  995.     report
  996.     give gold
  997.     reply
  998.  
  999. load more comments (1 reply)
  1000.  
  1001. [–]fanofyou 9 points 1 day ago
  1002.  
  1003. This is what bugs me most about the phrase "support the troops" - if I really supported the troops wouldn't I want to get them out of places where they're being shot at daily for no real reason.
  1004.  
  1005. I love how the justification went from "must get the WMDs" to "well, we can't leave now we're already here" almost overnight.
  1006.  
  1007.     permalink
  1008.     save
  1009.     parent
  1010.     report
  1011.     give gold
  1012.     reply
  1013.  
  1014. [–]SlitScan 6 points 1 day ago
  1015.  
  1016. except the reason never did change. it was always because the wrong billionaire oil family controlled Iraq and caused problems for the 'good' billionaire oil families in Saud and Texas.
  1017.  
  1018.     permalink
  1019.     save
  1020.     parent
  1021.     report
  1022.     give gold
  1023.     reply
  1024.  
  1025. [–]TheChance 2 points 22 hours ago
  1026.  
  1027. The sickening part is that, by the time they've switched their justification to, "well, we can't leave now," it's true.
  1028.  
  1029. And then we leave anyway. And look what happens.
  1030.  
  1031.     permalink
  1032.     save
  1033.     parent
  1034.     report
  1035.     give gold
  1036.     reply
  1037.  
  1038. [–]funknut 4 points 1 day ago
  1039.  
  1040. America thought we had learned our lesson to stop fighting unjust wars after Vietnam, yet election after election seems to offer no reprieve. Aside from revolution, it would seem that the only solution would be to be to stop enlisting and stop arms production, which seems an impossible feat.
  1041.  
  1042.     permalink
  1043.     save
  1044.     parent
  1045.     report
  1046.     give gold
  1047.     reply
  1048.  
  1049. [–]ClutchHunter 4 points 1 day ago
  1050.  
  1051. Absolutely. I'd read it/them.
  1052.  
  1053.     permalink
  1054.     save
  1055.     parent
  1056.     report
  1057.     give gold
  1058.     reply
  1059.  
  1060. [–]roskatili 3 points 18 hours ago
  1061.  
  1062. This.
  1063.  
  1064. All ex-militaries of Reddit who came to the same conclusion about Afghanistan and Iraq's futility (lost friends, lost faith, realized that they're the enemies, etc.) should band together and publish a compendium of their experiences. It could be anonymized. e.g. rank, location, date – just for context – but otherwise no name.
  1065.  
  1066.     permalink
  1067.     save
  1068.     parent
  1069.     report
  1070.     give gold
  1071.     reply
  1072.  
  1073. load more comments (5 replies)
  1074.  
  1075. [–]McNamaraWasRight 4 points 1 day ago
  1076.  
  1077. I fully understand the reasons as to why you do not wish to speak of your experiences in the theater of war, but sometimes I wonder whether the situation were different if soldiers just spoke about what happened to them.
  1078.  
  1079. You guys come back home and you remain silent, because you feel nobody can relate. That may be true.
  1080.  
  1081. But your testimony could change things around.
  1082.  
  1083.     permalink
  1084.     save
  1085.     parent
  1086.     report
  1087.     give gold
  1088.     reply
  1089.  
  1090. [–]InfantryMatt 5 points 1 day ago
  1091.  
  1092. Ill speak of my experiences all day long, I have no problems telling people, I would rather talk to people not in the army than in the army. I was 28 when I joined, I relate more to outsiders that the brainwashed kids that come in at 18 knowing nothing of the real world
  1093.  
  1094.     permalink
  1095.     save
  1096.     parent
  1097.     report
  1098.     give gold
  1099.     reply
  1100.  
  1101. load more comments (2 replies)
  1102.  
  1103. [–]OracleFINN 3 points 1 day ago
  1104.  
  1105. Thank you so much for sharing your personal breaking point.
  1106.  
  1107.     permalink
  1108.     save
  1109.     parent
  1110.     report
  1111.     give gold
  1112.     reply
  1113.  
  1114. [–]Reconsct 4 points 22 hours ago
  1115.  
  1116. I feel you, I really do. Still to this day I can't sleep in hopes of escaping the dreams of half the horrible shit that happened during my career. Myself, I enlisted pre- 9/11 and truth be told even deployments of "peacekeeping" prior to any actual "war" was just as convoluted and fucked. My story finally ended in Afghan about 3 years ago when I was severely injured, and as posted above just like any other Army property I was replaced. So here I sit now at 34 years old, body broken amd hoping to be taken care of by a system that is just as fucked. (The VA). I always hate when someone "thanks me for my service" the whole time I just think about how if they knew what that truly entailed, they would have probably offed themselves years ago. It's not even a matter a pride somedays but more a burden. Then everyone wonders why the suicide rate amongst military and vets is so damn high. After getting out I finally got a new tattoo. It is a simple phrase, and may seem cliche to many but to me it sums up 18 years and 6 deployments perfectly. "We stop looking for the monsters under our bed when we realize they are inside of us". If only the majority of civilians knew how damn true this phrase really is. Instead I don't feel like explaining, it really feels like a waste of time since you can't really make someone understand that wasn't there. Plus they wouldn't want to believe it anyhow. We aren't like that, we're the good guys. So instead they just thank me for my service, amd I either nod or give a uh huh, but either way I end up dying just a little more on the inside.
  1117.  
  1118.     permalink
  1119.     save
  1120.     parent
  1121.     report
  1122.     give gold
  1123.     reply
  1124.  
  1125. [–]InfantryMatt 2 points 15 hours ago
  1126.  
  1127. you ever wanna talk about shit I am a quick message away
  1128.  
  1129.     permalink
  1130.     save
  1131.     parent
  1132.     report
  1133.     give gold
  1134.     reply
  1135.  
  1136. [–]foodfighter 1935 points 5 months ago
  1137.  
  1138.     You grew up wanting so bad to be Luke Skywalker, but you realize that you were basically a Stormtrooper, a faceless, nameless rifleman, carrying a spear for empire
  1139.  
  1140. Damn, that was really well said.
  1141.  
  1142.     permalink
  1143.     save
  1144.     parent
  1145.     report
  1146.     give gold
  1147.     reply
  1148.  
  1149. [–]mcdrunkin 76 points 1 day ago
  1150.  
  1151. It made me think of the movie Falling Down when it finally hits Michael Douglas, "I'm the bad guy?"
  1152.  
  1153.     permalink
  1154.     save
  1155.     parent
  1156.     report
  1157.     give gold
  1158.     reply
  1159.  
  1160. [–]faithle55 25 points 1 day ago
  1161.  
  1162. I remember that as a strong, strong emotional scene. Michael Douglas was never better.
  1163.  
  1164.     permalink
  1165.     save
  1166.     parent
  1167.     report
  1168.     give gold
  1169.     reply
  1170.  
  1171. [–]BONGLORD420 5 points 1 day ago
  1172.  
  1173. As soon as I read your comment, I stopped redditing to watch this movie. That was two hours ago. Just finished and I'm glad I did, it's great.
  1174.  
  1175. Thanks!
  1176.  
  1177.     permalink
  1178.     save
  1179.     parent
  1180.     report
  1181.     give gold
  1182.     reply
  1183.  
  1184. load more comments (1 reply)
  1185.  
  1186. load more comments (1 reply)
  1187.  
  1188. [–]KvotheKingkilIer 161 points 1 day ago
  1189.  
  1190. Yeah, this one really hit home
  1191.  
  1192.     permalink
  1193.     save
  1194.     parent
  1195.     report
  1196.     give gold
  1197.     reply
  1198.  
  1199. load more comments (6 replies)
  1200.  
  1201. [–]ImDALEY 35 points 1 day ago
  1202.  
  1203. That actually sent chills down my spine.
  1204.  
  1205.     permalink
  1206.     save
  1207.     parent
  1208.     report
  1209.     give gold
  1210.     reply
  1211.  
  1212. load more comments (1 reply)
  1213.  
  1214. load more comments (6 replies)
  1215.  
  1216. [–]Mouth2005 807 points 5 months ago*
  1217.  
  1218. You know the hardest thing for me to grasp after getting out was that our rights and freedoms are basically nothing more than a slogan to pump up our troops. The longer and longer I'm out, I see that we as a people don't protect our rights from our own government; but we tell our boots they need to go protect them from <insert rival force here>
  1219.  
  1220. we say <insert rival force> is the biggest threat to America at the moment and start handing out rifles; Our young people go, they play a game of "them vs. us" and the winning prize is nothing more than keeping your life.......than you return to America and see the cops are running rampant--people don't care; Christianity is fighting to tare down freedom of religion and separation of church and state-- and no one cares; the middle class is being ripped apart (the group where the overwhelming majority of people currently reside) and no one cares?! businesses are favored in DC and allowed to buy our government--and again no one cares.........what the hell?
  1221.  
  1222. If we can't stand up for ourselves and our own rights in our own country!! what is the point of any war at all? The #1 ultimate reason for sending troops is to "protect our rights and freedom", "protect our way of life from people who want nothing else to destroy it", but we are destroying it ourself.......except we paint a different picture when we do it, we need to bend this right or that freedom to protect us from <insert current hot word (communist, terrorist, liberal)> it's done systematically, baby steps, but where does this road ultimately lead us?
  1223.  
  1224. Why should we go to someone else's house and strong arm them into immediately attempting our way of life, which took hundreds of years to create, when we are destroying it our selfs perfectly fine more and more by the day..........it's sad
  1225.  
  1226.     permalink
  1227.     save
  1228.     parent
  1229.     report
  1230.     give gold
  1231.     reply
  1232.  
  1233. [–]Boronx 40 points 1 day ago
  1234.  
  1235. That's why they send kids to war. Not many middle aged folks would by the "we're protecting our freedoms" bullshit.
  1236.  
  1237.     permalink
  1238.     save
  1239.     parent
  1240.     report
  1241.     give gold
  1242.     reply
  1243.  
  1244. [–]BenvolioMontague 20 points 1 day ago
  1245.  
  1246. Well you're convieniently ignoring the fact that not too many middle aged folks could handle rucking 30 miles with 150 pounds on their back and then fight for eight hours before they can call it a day. And by call it a day I mean sleep for 2-4 hours and then keep security until new orders are given.
  1247.  
  1248.     permalink
  1249.     save
  1250.     parent
  1251.     report
  1252.     give gold
  1253.     reply
  1254.  
  1255. [–]shas_o_kais 6 points 1 day ago
  1256.  
  1257. Roman military service was 20 years and they would carry 75 pounds of gear. Back when your average roman was 4'11". No. That's not a typo. Four feet, eleven inches tall. They marched up to 20 miles a day.
  1258.  
  1259.     permalink
  1260.     save
  1261.     parent
  1262.     report
  1263.     give gold
  1264.     reply
  1265.  
  1266. [–]Tetracyclic 4 points 1 day ago
  1267.  
  1268.     Back when your average roman was 4'11"
  1269.  
  1270. Huh?
  1271.  
  1272. Ray Laurence, Health and the Life Course at Herculaneum and Pompeii:
  1273.  
  1274.     The major samples from Herculaneum and Pompeii reveal the stature of the ancient adult body. The average height for females was calculated from the data to have been 155 cm in Herculaneum and 154 cm in Pompeii: that for males was 169 cm in Herculaneum and 166 cm in Pompeii. This is somewhat higher than the average height of modern Neapolitans in the 1960s and about 10 cm shorter than the WHO recommendations for modern world populations.
  1275.  
  1276. Jonathan P. Roth, The Logistics of the Roman Army at War: 264 BC-AD 235:
  1277.  
  1278.     Imperial regulations, though not entirely unambiguous, suggest that the minimum height for new recruits was five Roman feet, seven inches (165 cm., 5'5") [...] a reasonable estimate of a soldier's average height is around 170 cm (5'7").
  1279.  
  1280.     permalink
  1281.     save
  1282.     parent
  1283.     report
  1284.     give gold
  1285.     reply
  1286.  
  1287. [–]shas_o_kais 4 points 1 day ago*
  1288.  
  1289. I remember when I went to Rome, based on the size of the catacombs that they said they were 4'11". Guess we'll need an askHistorian to clarify.
  1290.  
  1291. The first quote you gave was from just two cities. I'm wondering of there was a larger sample.
  1292.  
  1293. But either way, let's go with your numbers. The point I was trying to make was that you don't necessarily need 18 year olds to do the physically hard stuff.
  1294.  
  1295.     permalink
  1296.     save
  1297.     parent
  1298.     report
  1299.     give gold
  1300.     reply
  1301.  
  1302. load more comments (2 replies)
  1303.  
  1304. load more comments (2 replies)
  1305.  
  1306. load more comments (2 replies)
  1307.  
  1308. [–]alecesne 18 points 1 day ago
  1309.  
  1310. You keep saying "no one cares"... but it seems like everyone you meek CARES... its just that no one knows what to do about it (or everyone has different ideas about what to do and most do nothing because its hard, and expensive, and possibly dangerous).
  1311.  
  1312.     permalink
  1313.     save
  1314.     parent
  1315.     report
  1316.     give gold
  1317.     reply
  1318.  
  1319. [–]arv98s 17 points 1 day ago
  1320.  
  1321. I have no idea what to do about it.
  1322.  
  1323.     permalink
  1324.     save
  1325.     parent
  1326.     report
  1327.     give gold
  1328.     reply
  1329.  
  1330. load more comments (2 replies)
  1331.  
  1332. load more comments (1 reply)
  1333.  
  1334. [–]jaeldi 284 points 1 day ago
  1335.  
  1336. to quote a bad movie: "So that's how democracy dies, with thunderous applause." - Queen Amidala
  1337.  
  1338. I always thought it was so strange of Lucas to make a Queen fight for democracy. Seems counter-intuitive.
  1339.  
  1340.     permalink
  1341.     save
  1342.     parent
  1343.     report
  1344.     give gold
  1345.     reply
  1346.  
  1347. [–]DarkwingDuc 69 points 1 day ago
  1348.  
  1349. Other relevant quotes:
  1350.  
  1351. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Source unclear, 1930's
  1352.  
  1353. or
  1354.  
  1355. "But he saw too that in America the struggle was befogged by the fact that the worst Fascists were they who disowned the word 'Fascism' and preached enslavement to Capitalism under the style of Constitutional and Traditional Native American Liberty." - Lewis Sinclair, 1935
  1356.  
  1357.     permalink
  1358.     save
  1359.     parent
  1360.     report
  1361.     give gold
  1362.     reply
  1363.  
  1364. [–]ramplocals 33 points 1 day ago
  1365.  
  1366.     When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross
  1367.  
  1368. They attribute that quote to Sinclair Lewis (maybe incorrectly, though). His Wife Dorothy Thompson had quite a way with words as well, "No people ever recognize their dictator in advance. He never stands for election on the platform of dictatorship. He always represents himself as the instrument — the Incorporated National Will. … When our dictator turns up you can depend on it that he will be one of the boys, and he will stand for everything traditionally American. And nobody will ever say "Heil" to him, nor will they call him "Führer" or "Duce." But they will greet him with one great big, universal, democratic, sheeplike bleat of "O.K., Chief! Fix it like you wanna, Chief! Oh Kaaaay!"
  1369.  
  1370.     permalink
  1371.     save
  1372.     parent
  1373.     report
  1374.     give gold
  1375.     reply
  1376.  
  1377. [–]tagehring 3 points 1 day ago
  1378.  
  1379. He might not have originated it, but Sinclair Lewis did have a character say it in "It Can't Happen Here," about the rise of a fascist movement in the US in the 1930s.
  1380.  
  1381.     permalink
  1382.     save
  1383.     parent
  1384.     report
  1385.     give gold
  1386.     reply
  1387.  
  1388. [–]thrownaway_MGTOW 2 points 23 hours ago
  1389.  
  1390.     His Wife Dorothy Thompson had quite a way with words as well, "No people ever recognize their dictator in advance. He never stands for election on the platform of dictatorship. He always represents himself as the instrument — the Incorporated National Will. … When our dictator turns up you can depend on it that he will be one of the boys, and he will stand for everything traditionally American. And nobody will ever say "Heil" to him, nor will they call him "Führer" or "Duce." But they will greet him with one great big, universal, democratic, sheeplike bleat of "O.K., Chief! Fix it like you wanna, Chief! Oh Kaaaay!"
  1391.  
  1392. The ultimate irony of course is that when she wrote that, just such a dictator had only recently been elected (in the US itself) a few years prior, and been told exactly that once ensconced in office.
  1393.  
  1394. Nor was he the first, nor will he be the last.
  1395.  
  1396.     permalink
  1397.     save
  1398.     parent
  1399.     report
  1400.     give gold
  1401.     reply
  1402.  
  1403. [–]LosingMyEdge7 6 points 1 day ago
  1404.  
  1405. It seemed pretty innocuous at the time but one of the most valuable things I was ever forced to learn in college was a Communications class mandatory for business that taught us about logical fallacies and how to spot them. How susceptible people are to emotional appeals and words with charged meanings or "buzz words" is shocking IMO. Maybe I'm strange but alarms go off in my head when anyone attempts to tug at my heartstrings or uses shitty words that have been used so often they're completely divorced from their original definition. There's a formula for establishing credibility in this day and age. If you don't understand it you'll be manipulated by the people who have mastered it. If you do you'll probably be pessimistic and probably sad more than anything deep down.
  1406.  
  1407.     permalink
  1408.     save
  1409.     parent
  1410.     report
  1411.     give gold
  1412.     reply
  1413.  
  1414. [–]Clewin 3 points 1 day ago
  1415.  
  1416. Incidentally, Hitler never ran as a Fascist, his party was the National Socialist Party. The Nazi party was seen as the best alternative to the Communist Party because they supported capitalism. Hitler's interpretation of the meaning of socialism is very different than any other I've ever heard - something like "if everyone has food and a place to live, they have socialism."
  1417.  
  1418. I have a feeling if it comes to America, it will be under a similar veil.
  1419.  
  1420.     permalink
  1421.     save
  1422.     parent
  1423.     report
  1424.     give gold
  1425.     reply
  1426.  
  1427. load more comments (1 reply)
  1428.  
  1429. [–]cmays90 121 points 1 day ago
  1430.  
  1431. She was elected queen. It's not like she ruled over a complete monarchy. Naboo is at least a republic.
  1432.  
  1433.     permalink
  1434.     save
  1435.     parent
  1436.     report
  1437.     give gold
  1438.     reply
  1439.  
  1440. [–]DoYouCali 73 points 1 day ago
  1441.  
  1442. Because electing a teenage girl to be supreme ruler in a time of crisis makes sense.
  1443.  
  1444. Except it doesn't.
  1445.  
  1446.     permalink
  1447.     save
  1448.     parent
  1449.     report
  1450.     give gold
  1451.     reply
  1452.  
  1453. [–]andhelostthem 84 points 1 day ago
  1454.  
  1455. Well she was certainly less corrupt than the older Senator they elected...
  1456.  
  1457.     permalink
  1458.     save
  1459.     parent
  1460.     report
  1461.     give gold
  1462.     reply
  1463.  
  1464. [–]DoYouCali 34 points 1 day ago
  1465.  
  1466. That's a really good point. The prequels harp so much on the importance of democracy, but look what happens when you let these idiots vote!
  1467.  
  1468.     permalink
  1469.     save
  1470.     parent
  1471.     report
  1472.     give gold
  1473.     reply
  1474.  
  1475. [–]Falling_Pies 167 points 1 day ago
  1476.  
  1477. The point of the prequels isn't the harp on democracy. If you go down the time line from movie 1 to movie 6 then you see a retreat from decadence. The story of the jedi order is a particularly good case study to show the larger albeit buried themes. It had basically become an order that kidnapped children and indoctrinated them into the jedi way. The temple was a billion credit construct in the nicest district of the most important planet of the entire solar system where the jedi council was actively participating in government, which is not the jedi way.
  1478.  
  1479. The story is often missed because the prequels seem so fucking stupid (which honestly, they highlight all the wrong parts of the journey) but behind the ridiculous love story the point trying to be made is that decadence on such a large scale breeds corruption. Corruption that is so deep that even epic orders of heroes and martyrs are completely unable to stop the rising tide of evil. In fact the corruption is so strong that the champion of the good guys is corrupted and wipes out his own team.
  1480.  
  1481. Yoda even realizes his mistake, the mistake of the entire jedi order, which was making themselves a centerpiece and losing touch with the force. When Yoda is training younglings in the prequels he tells them basically to white wash their emotions. To just be stoic and uncaring. After the fall, Yoda teaches Luke to be deeply in touch with his emotions and to control how he feels rather than to not feel at all. And to top it all off, the very thing that the prequel jedi trained to suppress, emotions particularly love in this case, saves Luke and defeats the empire.
  1482.  
  1483. This is a little off my point now, but a beautiful duality in the series is Anakin's love. Anakin wildly loves padme and rebels against the order, changing history forever and then years down the line Anakins love for his son is so powerful that it reignites the light inside of him and in one action Anakin is able to reverse nearly all the damage he has done. Anakin removes himself from the decadence of the Empire and just before he dies, he yearns to be in touch with the world one more time and removes his helmet. In that moment, Darth Vader brings balance to the force through the eradication of the known Sith in the universe. Vader's return to the light ended to rule of 2, ended the decadence of the Empire and prove to Luke that no one was too far gone to do good.
  1484.  
  1485. Also back on the point of democracy, it's not a powerful man that destroys the democracy but one really well meaning fool who got played. Gotta give it to Jar Jar for being the most unintentionally evil do-gooder ever.
  1486.  
  1487.     permalink
  1488.     save
  1489.     parent
  1490.     report
  1491.     give gold
  1492.     reply
  1493.  
  1494. [–]Grillburg 22 points 1 day ago
  1495.  
  1496. Bingo! Someone said that the prequels basically make Anakin the equivalent of Jesus in The Last Temptation of Christ. His destiny was to bring balance to the force, but he got sidetracked by his own desires and the world (galaxy) suffered for decades until he fixed his mistake by sacrificing himself to save his son.
  1497.  
  1498.     permalink
  1499.     save
  1500.     parent
  1501.     report
  1502.     give gold
  1503.     reply
  1504.  
  1505. [–]mindhawk 18 points 1 day ago
  1506.  
  1507. thank you for this you may have just made me want to rewatch the series for the first time, i think you saved star wars for me. here have an upvote.
  1508.  
  1509.     permalink
  1510.     save
  1511.     parent
  1512.     report
  1513.     give gold
  1514.     reply
  1515.  
  1516. load more comments (1 reply)
  1517.  
  1518. load more comments (13 replies)
  1519.  
  1520. [–]pikk 6 points 1 day ago
  1521.  
  1522. you get fucking Jar Jar Binks, who VOLUNTARILY handed over power to palpatine
  1523.  
  1524.     permalink
  1525.     save
  1526.     parent
  1527.     report
  1528.     give gold
  1529.     reply
  1530.  
  1531. load more comments (1 reply)
  1532.  
  1533. [–]JustAMinuteAnHourAgo 11 points 1 day ago
  1534.  
  1535. But they were being manipulated, by a war manufactured to generate fear. Which is a lot of what this thread is discussing.
  1536.  
  1537.     permalink
  1538.     save
  1539.     parent
  1540.     report
  1541.     give gold
  1542.     reply
  1543.  
  1544. [–]marwynn 17 points 1 day ago
  1545.  
  1546. The program she belonged to was meant to train geniuses at a young age since politics is a way of life and you'll need a lifetime's experience with it. Almost like being a Roman Senator.
  1547.  
  1548.     permalink
  1549.     save
  1550.     parent
  1551.     report
  1552.     give gold
  1553.     reply
  1554.  
  1555. load more comments (2 replies)
  1556.  
  1557. [–]ICanLiftACarUp 15 points 1 day ago
  1558.  
  1559. it still doesn't make sense, but it wasn't yet a 'time of crisis' when they elected her. Sure there were some people wanting to leave, but naboo was not one of those. It was a peaceful planet with no expectations of war. Then the trade federation shows up and lord sidious is all sithy and stuff.
  1560.  
  1561.     permalink
  1562.     save
  1563.     parent
  1564.     report
  1565.     give gold
  1566.     reply
  1567.  
  1568. [–]majesticjell0 8 points 1 day ago
  1569.  
  1570. "All sithy and stuff" accurate.
  1571.  
  1572.     permalink
  1573.     save
  1574.     parent
  1575.     report
  1576.     give gold
  1577.     reply
  1578.  
  1579. [–]devals 22 points 1 day ago
  1580.  
  1581. A young queen once said simply, at her coronation, "I will be good." That was Queen Victoria, age 18. Sometimes youth, innocence, is a plus.
  1582.  
  1583.     permalink
  1584.     save
  1585.     parent
  1586.     report
  1587.     give gold
  1588.     reply
  1589.  
  1590. load more comments (3 replies)
  1591.  
  1592. [–]zeekaran 49 points 1 day ago
  1593.  
  1594. You could judge people blindly on age, or think that maybe the people voted for her because she was brilliant and not bought by the Trade Fed or Banking Clan to turn over the planet for profit and whatever other good stuff she did.
  1595.  
  1596.     permalink
  1597.     save
  1598.     parent
  1599.     report
  1600.     give gold
  1601.     reply
  1602.  
  1603. [–]SwenKa 39 points 1 day ago
  1604.  
  1605. Think of it this way: We're gonna need some extremely young and fresh blood that still holds their ideals high to overturn decades and decades of bought-out corporate monkeys.
  1606.  
  1607.     permalink
  1608.     save
  1609.     parent
  1610.     report
  1611.     give gold
  1612.     reply
  1613.  
  1614. [–]Nimitz87 3 points 1 day ago
  1615.  
  1616. but how to those young fresh blood who hold their ideals highly become politicians?
  1617.  
  1618.     permalink
  1619.     save
  1620.     parent
  1621.     report
  1622.     give gold
  1623.     reply
  1624.  
  1625. [–]zeekaran 9 points 1 day ago
  1626.  
  1627. I was talking about Star Wars.
  1628.  
  1629.     permalink
  1630.     save
  1631.     parent
  1632.     report
  1633.     give gold
  1634.     reply
  1635.  
  1636. [–]LanceGD 13 points 1 day ago
  1637.  
  1638. we're talking about lots of stuff
  1639.  
  1640.     permalink
  1641.     save
  1642.     parent
  1643.     report
  1644.     give gold
  1645.     reply
  1646.  
  1647. load more comments (3 replies)
  1648.  
  1649. [–]SwenKa 5 points 1 day ago
  1650.  
  1651. Oh, I am aware. I was saying that, similarly, we will need someone not pre-controlled.
  1652.  
  1653.     permalink
  1654.     save
  1655.     parent
  1656.     report
  1657.     give gold
  1658.     reply
  1659.  
  1660. [–]NotRoryWilliams 2 points 1 day ago
  1661.  
  1662. You do realize the irony, right? She was pre-controlled and didn't even know it.
  1663.  
  1664.     permalink
  1665.     save
  1666.     parent
  1667.     report
  1668.     give gold
  1669.     reply
  1670.  
  1671. load more comments (1 reply)
  1672.  
  1673. load more comments (1 reply)
  1674.  
  1675. [–]charonpdx 25 points 1 day ago
  1676.  
  1677. Nogales, Arizona had a 19 year old elected mayor a few years ago. He was widely considered the best mayor in a while. (Admittedly, Nogales is a fairly small town, and Nogales, Mexico across the border a much larger city.)
  1678.  
  1679.     permalink
  1680.     save
  1681.     parent
  1682.     report
  1683.     give gold
  1684.     reply
  1685.  
  1686. [–]CanadianWaldo 10 points 1 day ago
  1687.  
  1688. Talkeetna ak has a cat for a mayor
  1689.  
  1690.     permalink
  1691.     save
  1692.     parent
  1693.     report
  1694.     give gold
  1695.     reply
  1696.  
  1697. load more comments (1 reply)
  1698.  
  1699. load more comments (2 replies)
  1700.  
  1701. [–]codenewt 5 points 1 day ago
  1702.  
  1703. Well, then I recommend you read this. Enjoy. :)
  1704.  
  1705.     permalink
  1706.     save
  1707.     parent
  1708.     report
  1709.     give gold
  1710.     reply
  1711.  
  1712. [–]spikedkushiel 4 points 1 day ago
  1713.  
  1714. She was trained in politics, went to a prestige college so its not like she was just a little girl they happens to pick up off the streets and say want to be queen?
  1715.  
  1716.     permalink
  1717.     save
  1718.     parent
  1719.     report
  1720.     give gold
  1721.     reply
  1722.  
  1723. [–]Halligan1409 5 points 1 day ago
  1724.  
  1725.     Because electing a teenage girl to be supreme ruler in a time of crisis makes sense.
  1726.  
  1727.     Except it doesn't.
  1728.  
  1729. Almost like North Korea.
  1730.  
  1731.     permalink
  1732.     save
  1733.     parent
  1734.     report
  1735.     give gold
  1736.     reply
  1737.  
  1738. [–]MeaMaximaCunt 4 points 1 day ago
  1739.  
  1740. You mean all those elections and choices they have?
  1741.  
  1742.     permalink
  1743.     save
  1744.     parent
  1745.     report
  1746.     give gold
  1747.     reply
  1748.  
  1749. [–]Clewin 3 points 1 day ago
  1750.  
  1751. North Korea has elections every 5 years. You can vote for Kim or get sent to a detention camp along with every family member within 3 generations of you.
  1752.  
  1753. Seeing that the position is queen, it could also be a traditional hereditary position and the vote is essentially a show of faith and would only be cast against her if she were a really bad queen. I believe there might be real world examples of this.
  1754.  
  1755.     permalink
  1756.     save
  1757.     parent
  1758.     report
  1759.     give gold
  1760.     reply
  1761.  
  1762. load more comments (2 replies)
  1763.  
  1764. [–]Halligan1409 2 points 1 day ago
  1765.  
  1766. No. More like the teenage girl part as supreme leader
  1767.  
  1768.     permalink
  1769.     save
  1770.     parent
  1771.     report
  1772.     give gold
  1773.     reply
  1774.  
  1775. load more comments (10 replies)
  1776.  
  1777. load more comments (1 reply)
  1778.  
  1779. [–]Raven_Biter 10 points 1 day ago
  1780.  
  1781. As bad as the prequels were. That line was magnificent.
  1782.  
  1783.     permalink
  1784.     save
  1785.     parent
  1786.     report
  1787.     give gold
  1788.     reply
  1789.  
  1790. [–]rrasco09 3 points 1 day ago
  1791.  
  1792.     So that's how democracy dies, with thunderous applause.
  1793.  
  1794. At the time the prequels were coming out I always thought it was intriguing how the coorelation was made between the movies and current events in the US. I always presumed that was done intentionally to highlight what was going on in the world "today".
  1795.  
  1796.     permalink
  1797.     save
  1798.     parent
  1799.     report
  1800.     give gold
  1801.     reply
  1802.  
  1803. load more comments (1 reply)
  1804.  
  1805. [–]creatorhoborg 1 point 1 day ago
  1806.  
  1807. I always saw it as a Constitutional Monarchy, similar to what we have here in the UK.
  1808.  
  1809.     permalink
  1810.     save
  1811.     parent
  1812.     report
  1813.     give gold
  1814.     reply
  1815.  
  1816. load more comments (10 replies)
  1817.  
  1818. [–]mopecore 72 points 5 months ago
  1819.  
  1820. Exactly, bro. Exactly this. He who would trade essential liberty for some temporary security will lose both and deserves neither.
  1821.  
  1822. We need to stop being so goddamned scared of each other.
  1823.  
  1824.     permalink
  1825.     save
  1826.     parent
  1827.     report
  1828.     give gold
  1829.     reply
  1830.  
  1831. [–]rumsfeldish 24 points 1 day ago
  1832.  
  1833. Dude, most of us do feel this way. It is the media and politicians who keep things going in this direction. Perpetual war is a business. We have to find a way to start using are votes to back specific legislation not politicians.
  1834.  
  1835.     permalink
  1836.     save
  1837.     parent
  1838.     report
  1839.     give gold
  1840.     reply
  1841.  
  1842. [–]igiveonefuck 21 points 1 day ago
  1843.  
  1844. "No problem can be solved by the same level of consciousness that created it". We need to do what Iceland did and rewrite some shit.
  1845.  
  1846.     permalink
  1847.     save
  1848.     parent
  1849.     report
  1850.     give gold
  1851.     reply
  1852.  
  1853. [–]matrim611 18 points 1 day ago*
  1854.  
  1855. We're already rewriting shit. We need to change who is rewriting shit.
  1856.  
  1857. EDIT: I'm not talking about just putting another politician into power, or even different congressional persons. I'm getting at a... well, there's no other word for it; Radical shift in the way our Democracy functions.
  1858.  
  1859. For a (supposed) Democratic Republic our general citizenry has a frighteningly small voice in how Government actually functions. I, personally, strongly feel that it's time for that to change.
  1860.  
  1861. For starters: Abolish the Electoral College.
  1862.  
  1863.     permalink
  1864.     save
  1865.     parent
  1866.     report
  1867.     give gold
  1868.     reply
  1869.  
  1870. [–]mindhawk 3 points 1 day ago
  1871.  
  1872. its important to realize how radical the recent legal changes are, tpp, financial services modernization act, nclb,charter schools, etc etc these are radical not conservative changes.
  1873.  
  1874.     permalink
  1875.     save
  1876.     parent
  1877.     report
  1878.     give gold
  1879.     reply
  1880.  
  1881. [–]war-scribe 2 points 1 day ago
  1882.  
  1883. And term limits. We have elected officials making policy decisions that have been in office since before we had a space program! That is not the person I want making subject matter expert level decisions.
  1884.  
  1885.     permalink
  1886.     save
  1887.     parent
  1888.     report
  1889.     give gold
  1890.     reply
  1891.  
  1892. load more comments (1 reply)
  1893.  
  1894. [–]rumsfeldish 8 points 1 day ago
  1895.  
  1896. There is big business, big government, but no big public..
  1897.  
  1898. What about a crowd-funding tool where the people can endorse specific legislation with either money or their votes (depending on if its an election year)? Not saying we should have to pay to get legislation passed but it's something that might work. And make people feel like there votes actually have some influence again.
  1899.  
  1900.     permalink
  1901.     save
  1902.     parent
  1903.     report
  1904.     give gold
  1905.     reply
  1906.  
  1907. load more comments (5 replies)
  1908.  
  1909. [–]salsasymphony 6 points 1 day ago
  1910.  
  1911. As someone who recently ran for a local county seat spoke to me, the nature of politics in America requires so much subversion and compromise of one's personal values, that by the time even a well-intentioned candidate reaches a level high enough to initiate change, they are not the same person as when they started.
  1912.  
  1913.     permalink
  1914.     save
  1915.     parent
  1916.     report
  1917.     give gold
  1918.     reply
  1919.  
  1920. load more comments (3 replies)
  1921.  
  1922. [–]Alonminatti 3 points 1 day ago
  1923.  
  1924. /r/benfranklin
  1925.  
  1926.     permalink
  1927.     save
  1928.     parent
  1929.     report
  1930.     give gold
  1931.     reply
  1932.  
  1933. load more comments (2 replies)
  1934.  
  1935. [–]ZK1371 2 points 1 day ago
  1936.  
  1937. Hey, I'm Zack. I did two tours to Afghanistan and I can't agree with you more. I was incredibly moved by this post and created /r/VeteransAgainstWar for more things like this to be discussed by veterans and civilians alike. The things that we saw wherever we were need to be told to the voters. Hope to see you around and I hope everything's going well
  1938.  
  1939.     permalink
  1940.     save
  1941.     parent
  1942.     report
  1943.     give gold
  1944.     reply
  1945.  
  1946. load more comments (15 replies)
  1947.  
  1948. [–]NightlyReaper 65 points 1 day ago
  1949.  
  1950. 22 year retiree here. The time you spent "in- theater" I spent in GTMO helping babysit terrorists. I didn't spend any time at the front. I had a chance to go with another unit that had a vacancy I could fill but my unit got deployed to GTMO and I decided to deploy with my unit. The guy they found to fill my spot in the other unit died in a fiery helo crash 3 months later. I never even saw Iraq, but I still have guilt.
  1951.  
  1952. I am not sorry that I never saw combat. I have never met anyone who shot someone in the line of duty that was happy about it.
  1953.  
  1954. After I retired, I was forced to question many of these same issues. I too found myself realizing that the truth is far different from the propaganda and that "the troops" are just a tool. A tool often wielded by madmen drunk on power and money.
  1955.  
  1956. The worst realization of all is that just by making these remarks I could wind up on some CIA watch-list because of all of the surveillance now. This is not the freedom that we were fighting for! This is wrong! Everyone sees it. No one cares. Wake up America!
  1957.  
  1958.     permalink
  1959.     save
  1960.     parent
  1961.     report
  1962.     give gold
  1963.     reply
  1964.  
  1965. [–]mcdrunkin 9 points 1 day ago
  1966.  
  1967. Many of us are awake. But now what do we do?
  1968.  
  1969.     permalink
  1970.     save
  1971.     parent
  1972.     report
  1973.     give gold
  1974.     reply
  1975.  
  1976. [–]randywatson666 4 points 1 day ago
  1977.  
  1978. Don't hide it. Help wake others up. Spread the knowledge. Help people understand.
  1979.  
  1980.     permalink
  1981.     save
  1982.     parent
  1983.     report
  1984.     give gold
  1985.     reply
  1986.  
  1987. [–]lennybird 3 points 1 day ago
  1988.  
  1989. I recommend reading and watching docs about the Vietnam soldiers who opposed the war and conscientiously objected. Start with the documentary, Sir! No Sir! I have no military background, but I think this helps illuminate the impact dissenters or even retired can have.
  1990.  
  1991.     permalink
  1992.     save
  1993.     parent
  1994.     report
  1995.     give gold
  1996.     reply
  1997.  
  1998. load more comments (3 replies)
  1999.  
  2000. load more comments (1 reply)
  2001.  
  2002. [–]bigbootypanda 59 points 1 day ago*
  2003.  
  2004. Hey man, I did some poking around in your history and noted that you had a GoFundMe set up a few months ago, but you never hit your goal. Are you still in need of assistance?
  2005.  
  2006. Edit: Just got home, but /u/PhilSwn has the link below, but it appears the GoFundMe is no longer taking donations. Hopefully if OP is still in need of help, they'll reach out to someone on Reddit or create a new campaign.
  2007.  
  2008.     permalink
  2009.     save
  2010.     parent
  2011.     report
  2012.     give gold
  2013.     reply
  2014.  
  2015. [–]sean_incali 9 points 1 day ago
  2016.  
  2017. post the link?
  2018.  
  2019.     permalink
  2020.     save
  2021.     parent
  2022.     report
  2023.     give gold
  2024.     reply
  2025.  
  2026. [–]PhilSwn 12 points 1 day ago
  2027.  
  2028. Found it! http://np.reddit.com/r/gofundme/comments/2lwgyf/my_wife_set_this_up_and_frankly_im_a_little_bit/ http://www.gofundme.com/h2ear0
  2029.  
  2030.     permalink
  2031.     save
  2032.     parent
  2033.     report
  2034.     give gold
  2035.     reply
  2036.  
  2037. [–]bonerparte1821 5 points 1 day ago
  2038.  
  2039. found her on FB, I don't like the fact that go fund me skims off the donations.
  2040.  
  2041.     permalink
  2042.     save
  2043.     parent
  2044.     report
  2045.     give gold
  2046.     reply
  2047.  
  2048. [–]dvidsilva 2 points 9 hours ago
  2049.  
  2050. shall we donate? will they receive the money? or what's up...
  2051.  
  2052.     permalink
  2053.     save
  2054.     parent
  2055.     report
  2056.     give gold
  2057.     reply
  2058.  
  2059. load more comments (4 replies)
  2060.  
  2061. [–]Minky_Dave_the_Giant 239 points 5 months ago
  2062.  
  2063. I think this is the best comment I've ever read on Reddit.
  2064.  
  2065.     permalink
  2066.     save
  2067.     parent
  2068.     report
  2069.     give gold
  2070.     reply
  2071.  
  2072. [–]thisisfun2 10 points 1 day ago
  2073.  
  2074. Completely agree.
  2075.  
  2076.     permalink
  2077.     save
  2078.     parent
  2079.     report
  2080.     give gold
  2081.     reply
  2082.  
  2083. load more comments (2 replies)
  2084.  
  2085. [–]_VisualEffects 280 points 5 months ago
  2086.  
  2087. I really appreciate you taking the time to write this. Thank you.
  2088.  
  2089.     permalink
  2090.     save
  2091.     parent
  2092.     report
  2093.     give gold
  2094.     reply
  2095.  
  2096. [–]Zig_Zagged 120 points 5 months ago
  2097.  
  2098. /r/bestof all time.
  2099.  
  2100.     permalink
  2101.     save
  2102.     parent
  2103.     report
  2104.     give gold
  2105.     reply
  2106.  
  2107. [–]wonmean 31 points 1 day ago
  2108.  
  2109. Gave me chills and made me tear up.
  2110.  
  2111. Damn.
  2112.  
  2113.     permalink
  2114.     save
  2115.     parent
  2116.     report
  2117.     give gold
  2118.     reply
  2119.  
  2120. load more comments (1 reply)
  2121.  
  2122. load more comments (1 reply)
  2123.  
  2124. [–]BabylonDrifter 241 points 5 months ago
  2125.  
  2126. As a regular American who cares about people - the first thing I thought after 9/11 was - the aftermath of this is going to be so bloody that it will defy description. They've awakened a sleeping giant. A sort of drunk giant, with daddy issues. The sad part is this: that was exactly what the 9/11 hijackers were trying to do. They were trying to provoke an overreaction by the west, to start a war against Islam which will galvanize the Muslim world and recruit militants from Indonesia to New York City. When we invaded Iraq - I screamed that they were doing exactly what the terrorists wanted. The rise of ISIS is just Bin Laden's long game coming to fruition. We fell for it. The terrorists won.
  2127.  
  2128.     permalink
  2129.     save
  2130.     parent
  2131.     report
  2132.     give gold
  2133.     reply
  2134.  
  2135. [–]XperiMental21 101 points 1 day ago
  2136.  
  2137. I think the powers that be knew it was bin laden's plan. They just didn't care. They were happy for the excuse to go to war because of all the money the military contractors make from it. And that gets them reelected. They probably saw it as a gift
  2138.  
  2139.     permalink
  2140.     save
  2141.     parent
  2142.     report
  2143.     give gold
  2144.     reply
  2145.  
  2146. [–]dankman13 21 points 1 day ago
  2147.  
  2148. Responding to a 5 month old thread.
  2149.  
  2150. That's a bold strategy cotton, let's see if it pays off.
  2151.  
  2152.     permalink
  2153.     save
  2154.     parent
  2155.     report
  2156.     give gold
  2157.     reply
  2158.  
  2159. [–]Edrondol 26 points 1 day ago
  2160.  
  2161. It was just linked to /r/bestof today, so...
  2162.  
  2163.     permalink
  2164.     save
  2165.     parent
  2166.     report
  2167.     give gold
  2168.     reply
  2169.  
  2170. [–]dqsg22 21 points 1 day ago
  2171.  
  2172. I feel like we're excavating reddit ruins together.
  2173.  
  2174.     permalink
  2175.     save
  2176.     parent
  2177.     report
  2178.     give gold
  2179.     reply
  2180.  
  2181. [–]Thoreaued 9 points 1 day ago
  2182.  
  2183. Here, grab a shovel.
  2184.  
  2185.     permalink
  2186.     save
  2187.     parent
  2188.     report
  2189.     give gold
  2190.     reply
  2191.  
  2192. load more comments (1 reply)
  2193.  
  2194. [–]MentalSewage 6 points 1 day ago
  2195.  
  2196. It did... Quite well actually...
  2197.  
  2198.     permalink
  2199.     save
  2200.     parent
  2201.     report
  2202.     give gold
  2203.     reply
  2204.  
  2205. [–]DrunkleDick 4 points 1 day ago
  2206.  
  2207. This thread has been resurrected via /r/bestof and is picking up steam. It should fare well for new posters. Let's see of anyone comments on the end of ISAF and the recent new campaign.
  2208.  
  2209.     permalink
  2210.     save
  2211.     parent
  2212.     report
  2213.     give gold
  2214.     reply
  2215.  
  2216. load more comments (3 replies)
  2217.  
  2218. [–]ninjaclown 30 points 1 day ago
  2219.  
  2220. The terrorists won when you said okay to the beginning of air port strip searches and the Patriot Act. The rest are details.
  2221.  
  2222.     permalink
  2223.     save
  2224.     parent
  2225.     report
  2226.     give gold
  2227.     reply
  2228.  
  2229. [–]Valdrax 39 points 1 day ago*
  2230.  
  2231. No, the terrorists started winning when they actually seized territory and started calling themselves a Caliphate. That was their actual, publicly stated goal. Everything else is details.
  2232.  
  2233. They don't care about Americans restricting their own freedoms out of fear. No member of Al Qaeda clapped their hands with glee when we started making people take of their shoes and said, "Yes! Our plan was a total success!" 9/11 was about telling us to back off the Middle East as a risky venture (especially Saudi Arabia). You can hardly expect them to be happy that we instead committed ourselves further just because we "gave up our freedoms" to do it.
  2234.  
  2235. It's not all about us. Repeat after me: "The world does not revolve around us."
  2236.  
  2237. Terrorists aren't irrational madmen or mustache-twirling black hats whose bitter hearts are gladdened whenever the world turns a shade darker. They are zealots, working hard to achieve world change that benefits them and their beliefs. They work rationally to those ends, albeit with a sick disdain for the lives of those that disagree with them and often with a joy for causing those people suffering for being "evil" in their eyes.
  2238.  
  2239. They. Do. Not. Care. About. Our. Freedoms.
  2240.  
  2241.     permalink
  2242.     save
  2243.     parent
  2244.     report
  2245.     give gold
  2246.     reply
  2247.  
  2248. [–]uhuhshesaid 8 points 1 day ago
  2249.  
  2250. So well put. I wish more people understood this. Osama literally wrote it all out. It was put into a book, translated into English. I have read it. I have no doubt those in the government read it. It clearly states he wants to drive the US into wars that will ruin it economically and establish a caliphate.
  2251.  
  2252. And we did exactly what they wanted us to. It blows my fucking mind.
  2253.  
  2254. The same thing is happening now with ISIS. They also publicly state they want boots on the ground, they want bombing, they want a war. When someone dies there, it is celebrated as another step towards the ultimate goal.
  2255.  
  2256. And we are playing into their hands again. And I cannot fucking believe it.
  2257.  
  2258.     permalink
  2259.     save
  2260.     parent
  2261.     report
  2262.     give gold
  2263.     reply
  2264.  
  2265. load more comments (1 reply)
  2266.  
  2267. [–]leidend22 4 points 1 day ago
  2268.  
  2269. You are right but it should be mentioned that they really do hate America. America is like no other country in its meddling in foreign affairs, especially in the middle east, since WWII. They also see Israel as an extension of America.
  2270.  
  2271.     permalink
  2272.     save
  2273.     parent
  2274.     report
  2275.     give gold
  2276.     reply
  2277.  
  2278. load more comments (3 replies)
  2279.  
  2280. [–]0l01o1ol0 2 points 1 day ago
  2281.  
  2282.     It's not all about us. Repeat after me: "The world does not revolve around us."
  2283.  
  2284.     They. Do. Not. Care. About. Our. Freedoms.
  2285.  
  2286. I don't agree. Imagine a Soviet citizen saying to another, "The Americans don't care about Marxism. The world does not revolve around us."
  2287.  
  2288. The Cold War was defined by an obsession with one side by another, and I don't think this new series of wars is any different.
  2289.  
  2290. While the world is multipolar, the radicals see things not just in a Islam/West split, but in a materialist/spiritualist split, so for example they see the Saudi and Gulf states governments as corrupt materialists on the Americans' side. From their perspective, what Americans call "Freedom" is really just a code world for materialism, worldliness, or selfishness, and they certainly do see it as a negative.
  2291.  
  2292.     permalink
  2293.     save
  2294.     parent
  2295.     report
  2296.     give gold
  2297.     reply
  2298.  
  2299. [–]Valdrax 3 points 1 day ago*
  2300.  
  2301. Granted, but they don't particularly care if our secular government adds more rules to make our lives less free if those rules are not inspired by the divine. Heck, they wouldn't count it as a win if we did turn more theocratic if it was the wrong theocracy.
  2302.  
  2303. Any time someone says, "The PATRIOT Act means the terrorists win," they are completely ignoring that fact. I agree that I think the newest global ideological divide is one of secular materialism vs. fundamentalist religion, but I don't think that "the terrorists win" unless a negative change actually brings them closer to their goals, and western powers turning more authoritarian in the direction of the wrong philosophy doesn't do that any more than Red Scare hysteria made the US more communist.
  2304.  
  2305.     permalink
  2306.     save
  2307.     parent
  2308.     report
  2309.     give gold
  2310.     reply
  2311.  
  2312. [–]bonerparte1821 4 points 1 day ago
  2313.  
  2314. Safe to say the reasons are deeper but much simpler than that. Call me anti semitic, but Israel is really the flash point for this mess.
RAW Paste Data
We use cookies for various purposes including analytics. By continuing to use Pastebin, you agree to our use of cookies as described in the Cookies Policy. OK, I Understand
Pastebin PRO 'AUTUMN SPECIAL'!
Get 60% OFF Pastebin PRO accounts!
 
Top