irc logs

1449418498 >> <neutrak> you're trying to get a "highly regarded job" but that's not necessarily "a fun job that lets you enjoy life"
1449418528 <zhinandtonic> I don't want that
1449418531 >> <neutrak> no one wants a job they hate (like, by definition)
1449418533 <GargajUD> jobs arent necessrily there for enjoyment, that's why they're called jobs
1449418540 <zhinandtonic> I don't want to play ping pong on the job
1449418545 <GargajUD> i mean there's plenty of middle ground between "shit job" and "amazing fun dream job"
1449418566 <zhinandtonic> my dream is to create works of art and have the world as an audience
1449418576 <zhinandtonic> thats the payoff
1449418580 <GargajUD> if you wanna create works of art, make sure it's not your job
1449418582 <zhinandtonic> having people see it
1449418590 <zhinandtonic> or something like that
1449418591 >> <neutrak> GargajUD: true but the fact is that a huge amount of jobs people have don't actually /need to be done/
1449418600 <GargajUD> cos once money comes into that, you're creating someone else's
1449418604 >> <neutrak> we automate things for a reason
1449418624 >> <neutrak> well, unless you own the means of production yourself, like in a co-op
1449418626 <zhinandtonic> well, if I find myself dissatified
1449418630 <zhinandtonic> I have my plan b
1449418645 <zhinandtonic> retrain
1449418651 >> <neutrak> I agree with GargajUD re: art
1449418655 <zhinandtonic> I asked myself a question recently
1449418669 <zhinandtonic> if I had to choose between dream job and money
1449418670 >> <neutrak> if you try to make it into a job you'll either be poor or lose your freedom of expression
1449418676 <zhinandtonic> I would choose money
1449418685 >> <neutrak> that's like, sad to me
1449418702 >> <neutrak> but whatever floats your boat
1449418723 <zhinandtonic> but for now I'll do my damnedest to make my degree not seem like three years wasted in my life
1449418732 ***<zhinandtonic> neutrak: I'm materialistic, sue me
1449418769 <GargajUD> well money would be part of my dream job tbh :)
1449418794 <zhinandtonic> if you want to explain more, shoot
1449418811 :GargajCNS!~gargaj@catv-188-142-212-47.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout
1449418811 :GargajUD!~gargaj@catv-188-142-212-47.catv.broadband.hu NICK :GargajCNS
1449418853 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: I mean, I guess if you have enough material goods I probably can sue you
1449418864 >> <neutrak> for like, violating antitrust laws or something
1449418884 >> <neutrak> but yeah, idk, that's just a foreign concept to me
1449418885 <GargajCNS> bro do you even humour
1449418892 >> <neutrak> GargajCNS: not usually no
1449418920 >> <neutrak> wanting material things is fine but at a certain point I feel like if you're not satisfied you never will be
1449418947 >> <neutrak> once I can attain a middle class lifestyle, I'll take time over money any day
1449418965 >> <neutrak> because that's what you're doing, you're trading time for money
1449418974 <zhinandtonic> I don't want to settlle
1449418979 <GargajCNS> yea but that "once i" is a pretty big one :)
1449418980 >> <neutrak> it doesn't do me any good to have a super awesome car if the only place I can drive it is too and from work
1449419001 >> <neutrak> GargajCNS: it is, and that's why I currently have a job which takes a ton of my time
1449419026 >> <neutrak> I'm just saying beyond that if you need more, you'll probably never have "enough"
1449419046 <GargajCNS> i'm ascetic by default
1449419050 <GargajCNS> so i dont have that problem :)
1449419056 <zhinandtonic> what does that mean
1449419070 <GargajCNS> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism
1449419071 <tard> <GargajCNS> Asceticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1449419109 <zhinandtonic> seriously? Just like how it's explained?
1449419116 <GargajCNS> no
1449419136 <GargajCNS> but i try to avoid being bogged down by a need for things
1449419139 <GargajCNS> i never really had things
1449419144 <zhinandtonic> I see
1449419146 <GargajCNS> so i dont want to start now
1449419152 <GargajCNS> that doesnt mean things that have utility
1449419161 >> <neutrak> I'm not against things, I just think there's an amount that's enough
1449419164 <zhinandtonic> I think
1449419169 <zhinandtonic> I wan't to be like my dad
1449419177 >> <neutrak> things are cool; computers and cars and motorcycles and houses are awesome
1449419179 <zhinandtonic> I want *
1449419189 >> <neutrak> it's just you don't need ever-increasing amounts
1449419197 <zhinandtonic> and I want to be able to help anyone whenever
1449419206 <zhinandtonic> It's the one thing I truly admire
1449419210 <zhinandtonic> about him
1449419218 <zhinandtonic> he's helped so many people
1449419228 <FrenzyBanene> I want to say but I don't know how to form the words
1449419234 <zhinandtonic> not just throwing money at them, though it's mainly the case
1449419253 <FrenzyBanene> Sometimes you go along and you have a chance to make more, even if you don't need it would you go for it?
1449419266 <zhinandtonic> yes
1449419276 ***<FrenzyBanene> Yeah and neutrak?
1449419283 >> <neutrak> no
1449419295 <FrenzyBanene> Would you say, i have enough, I'm not doing that?
1449419300 <zhinandtonic> you don't need it, give it to someone who does
1449419304 >> <neutrak> if I could live my current lifestyle and have time to enjoy the things I have I would never need more
1449419320 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: but you got that money or those things from someone in the first place; it didn't appear out of no where
1449419325 <zhinandtonic> what if you have kids
1449419328 <FrenzyBanene> And if it were incredibly easy, say maybe a few years to get it set up
1449419369 <FrenzyBanene> I don't know if I see that as being content or unambitious
1449419371 >> <neutrak> so I don't see it being useful to give back when you could just leave it in the possesion of others in the first place, unless the people you originally get that money from are richer than the people you're giving the money to
1449419380 <zhinandtonic> lol
1449419396 <FrenzyBanene> And if they don't have to means to obtain it by themselves?
1449419412 <zhinandtonic> I don't NEED to work
1449419419 <zhinandtonic> I could scrounge off my dad
1449419421 <zhinandtonic> I don't want to
1449419430 >> <neutrak> FrenzyBanene: so if there was some way to make a ton of money easily and relatively quickly, I would probably do it, but not to be wealthy, to retire early
1449419461 <zhinandtonic> I'm taking the money from people paying for fashionable clothes, clothes you'd say they don't need
1449419477 >> <neutrak> if there was a way I could make 5 million dollars in like 2 years, yeah, I'd totally do it, but I wouldn't buy things with that money, I'd draw a salary from it every year until I died and continue to live as I do
1449419505 <zhinandtonic> see that just seems so complacent to me
1449419534 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: they don't need those clothes, but it's true that in your particular line of work the customers are generally wealthy, and they're gonna blow their money on something, so it may as well be the stuff you sell
1449419540 <zhinandtonic> in an ideal world Id accomplish things
1449419541 >> <neutrak> so yeah, I don't have a problem with that
1449419550 <zhinandtonic> HELL I'd make my mum happy and do medicine
1449419552 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: I'm not gonna just do nothing; quite the contrary
1449419566 >> <neutrak> I'm gonna do tons of stuff, but it's tons of stuff that doesn't make money and shouldn't make money
1449419576 >> <neutrak> like research
1449419590 >> <neutrak> and mitigating the threats of mass surveillance
1449419604 >> <neutrak> it's not "oh I'll retire and then do nothing"
1449419619 >> <neutrak> and then you could make art and not worry about being impovershed or controlled
1449419622 >> <neutrak> that's freedom to me
1449419637 <zhinandtonic> well its not sitting on a pile of money and doing nothing
1449419641 ***<FrenzyBanene> neutrak: to me being wealthy is the prerequisite to retiring early
1449419642 >> <neutrak> so I don't see that as complacent
1449419655 >> <neutrak> FrenzyBanene: only because of how we have structured our society
1449419674 >> <neutrak> it's not necessarily the case, but in practical terms these days that's what you probably need yes
1449419685 >> <neutrak> I'd rather we just worked fewer hours as we get more robots to do stuff
1449419701 <zhinandtonic> we got robots to surveil
1449419705 >> <neutrak> not retire early but at least have more time while working to pursue goals unrelated to profit
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1449419730 <zhinandtonic> but you seem uncomfortable with that
1449419748 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: we have robots to do tons of manufacturing and harvesting and lots of other things, but instead of everyone working less, we put them out on the street while the guy who owns the robots gets rich
1449419767 >> <neutrak> yeah I'm against surveillance, but that's not the fault of the robots
1449419791 >> <neutrak> and you know what, we're gonna find a way to get around it, it's not impossible
1449419798 >> <neutrak> technology progressing is fine
1449419815 <zhinandtonic> people who think fast is fine too
1449419817 >> <neutrak> I just want the reward of technology to be better distributed
1449419912 <zhinandtonic> you mean the money?
1449419917 >> <neutrak> honestly I think a huge number of things we do would be better if they were decoupled from profit, and we'd have the time to do them if we just worked less as we got more automation
1449419922 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: time, mostly
1449419937 >> <neutrak> we automate stuff and then we have to do less
1449419954 >> <neutrak> unless you get fired and then you have to find some other pointless thing to do
1449419958 <FrenzyBanene> That doesn't happen
1449419968 >> <neutrak> which doesn't actually need to be done because if it needed to be done someone else would already be doing it
1449419969 <zhinandtonic> we got the computer
1449419975 <zhinandtonic> and work a fuck ton ore
1449419975 >> <neutrak> so we "create jobs" which is just busy work
1449419978 <zhinandtonic> more
1449419983 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: yeah, and that's stupid as hell
1449419991 <zhinandtonic> why
1449419994 >> <neutrak> yes, that is what we currently do, because we're fucking morons
1449420000 :Zirg!zirgion@tiksu.mediaforge.fi NICK :Zirgion
1449420002 <FrenzyBanene> I don't think so
1449420004 >> <neutrak> because why did we make the computer? it wasn't to make our lives harder, surely?
1449420007 <FrenzyBanene> You do more in less time
1449420019 <FrenzyBanene> I don't see what's bad about that
1449420022 >> <neutrak> FrenzyBanene: but we don't /need/ to do /more/ if we can be /satisfied/
1449420037 >> <neutrak> and if we /can't/ be satisfied then we'll deplete our resources and all starve
1449420054 <Mr_G> And thus the fundemental evolutionary problem
1449420068 <zhinandtonic> this is super far fetched
1449420068 >> <neutrak> it's an incredibly simple to fix problem
1449420081 <zhinandtonic> but for me, Id say to strive for perfection
1449420094 <Liiri> Had to remove a tooth from my dog
1449420097 <zhinandtonic> theres a sewing machine that sews for me
1449420107 <FrenzyBanene> If it were that easy to fix it would have been fixed already
1449420113 <Mr_G> It's not a simple problem, really
1449420121 >> <neutrak> FrenzyBanene: no because it's not beneficial to those that control the robots and capital
1449420123 <zhinandtonic> I can now eliminate the hassle of each stick hassling me
1449420127 <Mr_G> Humans, as a species, want to improve and want to get better
1449420132 <zhinandtonic> and focus on perfecting the garment
1449420155 <FrenzyBanene> And that's the root of the problem that cannot be fixed
1449420164 >> <neutrak> Mr_G: we have a finite amount of resources; increasing consumption and population growth simply cannot last; it's a matter of resources and carrying capacity
1449420176 >> <neutrak> FrenzyBanene: it CAN be fixed, we just need to try to fix it
1449420186 >> <neutrak> all I'm hearing is "let's not worry about that and not try because it's not a problem"
1449420198 <Mr_G> Well, it can, we can just find more resources, we've done it thousands of times before
1449420200 <Mr_G> The problem is
1449420202 >> <neutrak> not every change is an improvement but every improvement MUST BE a change
1449420215 <Mr_G> We're 99% sure that there's no more resources left unaccounted for on this planet
1449420217 >> <neutrak> something's gotta break
1449420224 >> <neutrak> and it's about time to fucking break it
1449420232 >> <neutrak> but it's a cultural thing
1449420235 <zhinandtonic> erm
1449420238 <zhinandtonic> remind me
1449420243 ***<zhinandtonic> whats your problem neutrak
1449420244 <zhinandtonic> lol
1449420251 >> <neutrak> Mr_G: there are more resources, but not an infinite amount
1449420257 <Mr_G> Ofc not
1449420257 <FrenzyBanene> How are you going to fix that, the redistribution of wealth?
1449420266 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: the unsustainability of consumerist culture
1449420267 <Mr_G> Hense the fundemental evolutionary problem
1449420273 <zhinandtonic> WELP
1449420275 <FrenzyBanene> You really can't just march in, take their money and give it out
1449420281 <zhinandtonic> I have a degree in fashion
1449420283 <FrenzyBanene> It's what they worked hard to attain
1449420288 <zhinandtonic> I am part of that culture haha
1449420313 <Liiri> Fashion has more dimensions thatn just consumerism
1449420317 <Liiri> than*
1449420318 :AquaKnight!~AquaKnigh@pool-173-63-209-246.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#imgurians
1449420330 >> <neutrak> FrenzyBanene: do your job, but as we get technology to make you 5x more efficient, instead of firing 4/5s of the workforce, give everyone the same salary and just let them work 1/5th as much
1449420346 >> <neutrak> as we get automation, let people actually benefit
1449420346 <zhinandtonic> Liiri: true but thats where the main income comes from
1449420353 >> <neutrak> instead of "fighting robots for your job"
1449420356 <Liiri> There are tons of movements that involve sustainable fashion, the rise of thrift-shops is a major deal, etc
1449420359 <FrenzyBanene> What sense does that make in economics
1449420374 <FrenzyBanene> Go, take my money, go enjoy yourself, don't work
1449420386 <Mr_G> So, question: why would anyone research any technology if it doesn't actually make things run better/cheaper?
1449420388 <Liiri> Yeah but also, consumerism is more about the buy thing, use thing once or twice, throw away, buy new thing
1449420401 ***<zhinandtonic> neutrak: have you thought that maybe the don't want to work less hours
1449420412 >> <neutrak> Mr_G: it does and people do and would research it, they just wouldn't be profit-centered
1449420417 <zhinandtonic> that these people whomever they are want to move onto the next step
1449420422 <Mr_G> If you can employ people costing X and getting a result of Y why would you put an additional cost of Z for no impact on X and Y
1449420432 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: they are free to do whatever they want in the time they have, and that's of course open to continuing to do what they do, only more
1449420453 <FrenzyBanene> And what you're thinking of assumes everyone starts on the same level, that everyone is equally capable and should be paid equal amounts
1449420456 <Liiri> I love that Sweden is now introducing the 6hr workday
1449420461 <Liiri> Same pay as 8hr workday
1449420463 <Mr_G> I want to move to Sweden
1449420463 >> <neutrak> Mr_G: okay instead of 1/5th as much, you can work 2/5ths as much until the initial cost is repaid; that's not that hard to solve
1449420465 <Mr_G> So bad
1449420466 <Mr_G> Cause of that
1449420468 <zhinandtonic> so get paid for five hours and then completely unpaid for however longer they stay to work for example?
1449420471 >> <neutrak> that's still a vast improvement
1449420473 <Mr_G> And I don't even have a normal job
1449420485 <Liiri> The results are super promising
1449420511 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: pretty much yes, but remember that their pay for those five hours is equal to the pay they were previously getting for more time
1449420530 >> <neutrak> so they're still making the same amount of money they were before
1449420532 <Liiri> People can accomplish just as much as an 8hr workday but they are less tired when they get home and they have more energy to vitalize themselves by having a hobby or spending more time with the family
1449420544 <zhinandtonic> what of its not pro rata
1449420550 <zhinandtonic> if*
1449420550 >> <neutrak> Liiri: and hobbies are a huge benefit, honestly
1449420556 <Liiri> Yes
1449420570 <Liiri> Emloyers benefit from healthy, rested employees so much
1449420573 <Mr_G> Can the work day not start until 11am, I know I'd be happier
1449420576 >> <neutrak> people do tons of stuff for hobbies that would be hugely beneficial if people had time to work on them
1449420581 <Liiri> The cost that comes from sick employees is huge
1449420593 <GargajCNS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh1t2MJDbrs
1449420594 <tard> <GargajCNS> Carrie Fisher Dishes on Return to 'Star Wars' - YouTube
1449420619 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: I mean, obviously there are lots of things to consider, and I'm open to suggestions on how problems might be fixed
1449420620 <Liiri> Mr_G: i've heard that in IT that's actually possible
1449420635 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: I am not however open to the suggestion that there is no problem and the status quo is fine, because it's clearly not
1449420635 <Liiri> To start your workday at 8-10am, whenever you feel like it
1449420643 <Liiri> And then go home at 16-18
1449420644 >> <neutrak> if you have a better suggestion I'm all ears
1449420648 <Mr_G> Well in the YouTube industry(?) people never come into the office before 10am
1449420655 <Mr_G> And no-one starts recording until at least 12
1449420667 <Mr_G> It's very laid back
1449420671 <Liiri> I love going to work early
1449420679 <Liiri> I much rather go to work at 6 and get off at 12
1449420683 <AquaKnight> youtube industry?
1449420690 <AquaKnight> do you mean making videos for a living
1449420692 ***<zhinandtonic> neutrak: your suggestion is for a very small sect of people in the grand scheme of things
1449420735 <zhinandtonic> our demand for doctors is ever-growing and the supply isn't there
1449420735 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: not so; every job will eventually be automated
1449420745 >> <neutrak> it's just a question of time
1449420747 <Liiri> In Sweden they started piloting the 6hr workday in homes for elderly and private hospitals
1449420761 :Proview!~proview@CPE0c473dd44b11-CM0c473dd44b10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#imgurians
1449420764 <zhinandtonic> hell some operations can last over a shift
1449420785 <Proview> i've got my flannel on
1449420790 ***<AquaKnight> <+neutrak> FrenzyBanene: do your job, but as we get technology to make you 5x more efficient, instead of firing 4/5s of the workforce, give everyone the same salary and just let them work 1/5th as much  <-- yeah but this isnt going to work
1449420793 <Proview> getting ready to cut down a tree
1449420793 <zhinandtonic> sick?
1449420795 <Liiri> Yeah there will be robotic surgeons at some point, i'm sure of it
1449420795 >> <neutrak> for right /now/ I agree that a huge number of people need to continue working, however the fact that people are unemployed means that clearly we don't need /everyone/ working this much
1449420803 <AquaKnight> you're forgetting about the human element
1449420804 >> <neutrak> Liiri: exactly
1449420805 <Proview> like a true outdoorsman
1449420820 <Liiri> Proview: lumbersexual much?
1449420821 <AquaKnight> robots can likely replace everything in the world im sure
1449420822 >> <neutrak> AquaKnight: I realize that the current owners of capital are opposed to this, and you're missing the point
1449420830 <AquaKnight> no you dont understand
1449420835 <AquaKnight> what happens when there is no work
1449420843 >> <neutrak> AquaKnight: we have hobbies and art?
1449420848 <Proview> i'll try to do some seductive poses
1449420853 >> <neutrak> we do research because we like it instead of because it makes money?
1449420858 <Proview> don't show dark mark though
1449420865 <Proview> if he sees me with a christmas tree he may get aroused
1449420869 <AquaKnight> do you really feel that all humans are going to agree on that though
1449420883 <Liiri> Why wouldnt they
1449420886 <AquaKnight> history as shown us time and time again there's always people who want to rise above
1449420887 <FrenzyBanene> One more thing
1449420889 >> <neutrak> AquaKnight: I'm not opposed to people working /more/ to get /more/ but when everything is automated some baseline level of substinence shouldn't require work
1449420898 <FrenzyBanene> You assume everyone makes enough to be content to go do hobbies
1449420898 <Liiri> Why wouldnt people want robots to do all the manual shit and let humans do all the fun stuff
1449420901 >> <neutrak> AquaKnight: yes and that's a cultural problem that needs fixing
1449420908 >> <neutrak> Liiri gets it
1449420915 <AquaKnight> but you can't 'fix' that
1449420917 <AquaKnight> that's human nature
1449420928 >> <neutrak> AquaKnight: I disagree; it's not my nature, and I'm a human
1449420929 <Liiri> Human nature is like the poorest of excuses ever
1449420936 >> <neutrak> counterexample
1449420940 <AquaKnight> but you're not ALL humans though
1449420942 <AquaKnight> you're just you
1449420946 <Liiri> We've proven that humans are capable of many things that are not of "human nature"
1449420952 >> <neutrak> true but there's no inherent reason all humans /couldn't/ do that
1449420955 <FrenzyBanene> If some people make less, too little, they may not necessarily want more time for hobbies, they may rather work more hours for more money
1449420960 <AquaKnight> but that's the issue, its something no amount of science can account for
1449420963 <AquaKnight> the free will of humans
1449420990 >> <neutrak> FrenzyBanene: and that's their option; so long as it doesn't conflict with others who don't want to work more for material gains I don't actually have a problem with
1449421012 <AquaKnight> if you want to pursue that avenue wouldnt 'do something you love' make more sense
1449421019 <AquaKnight> then some debate its no longer work
1449421024 >> <neutrak> AquaKnight: that's just silly; humans aren't magic; at some point science will be able to determine what every neuron in the brain is doing
1449421026 <AquaKnight> but you still get paid to do it
1449421029 >> <neutrak> granted that's probably centuries off
1449421060 >> <neutrak> AquaKnight: doing something you love is fine, but you're more free to do something you love if you don't have to potentially do something you hate to survive
1449421075 ***<AquaKnight> i feel that the bigger issue you're not understanding though neutrak is you're oversimplifying a pretty difficult issue
1449421076 >> <neutrak> it's hard to switch jobs when you have one you hate and you need it to not starve
1449421090 <AquaKnight> you speak in ideals but it isnt realistic at all
1449421106 >> <neutrak> AquaKnight: I'm proposing a goal to strive towards
1449421114 <AquaKnight> while i agree that robots will probably take over most if not all human jobs
1449421115 >> <neutrak> not an instant "if I was in charge it'd be fixed" solution
1449421123 >> <neutrak> I'm saying this is what we should shoot for
1449421135 >> <neutrak> realizing that small steps along the way and a lot of bumps are ahead for it
1449421149 <AquaKnight> alright; how do people have money in your ideal society then
1449421159 <AquaKnight> or does your society use money at all
1449421194 >> <neutrak> basic necessities (food, water, shelter) provided by robots, no money needed
1449421228 <zhinandtonic> I think
1449421231 >> <neutrak> luxury goods work exactly as they do now; people make them and sell them for money, which allow those people who want to participate to attain a higher quality of life
1449421232 <zhinandtonic> you don't want profit
1449421234 <zhinandtonic> finw
1449421236 <zhinandtonic> fine
1449421242 <zhinandtonic> but you can't speak for others
1449421259 <zhinandtonic> I work in a shop
1449421262 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: this is true and it wasn't my intent to tell you not to want things
1449421270 <zhinandtonic> Its open at certain hours
1449421283 <zhinandtonic> you're suggestion the cut my shift buy half lets say
1449421291 >> <neutrak> I'm not against profit, what I am against is /growth/
1449421303 <zhinandtonic> growth?
1449421307 <zhinandtonic> foreal?
1449421317 >> <neutrak> the requirement than a society must expand and continue to make and use more
1449421318 <Proview> just stop arguing with him
1449421320 <Proview> he is not grounded in reality
1449421323 >> <neutrak> yes, it's unsustainable
1449421327 <Proview> hes moronic when it comes to this stuff
1449421329 >> <neutrak> there are a finite amount of resources
1449421368 >> <neutrak> Proview: care to tell me how? because I'm open to being wrong
1449421374 <Proview> no you aren't
1449421387 <Proview> and i've tried 100 times before
1449421390 <Proview> you arne't dragging me into this one
1449421421 <zhinandtonic> growth in a company could lead to them being able to take part in charity causes, or becoming more sustainable
1449421425 >> <neutrak> I'm not trying to drag you into anything
1449421437 <Proview> zhin whyyyy
1449421446 <zhinandtonic> growth?!
1449421447 <Proview> bbl
1449421449 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: true, growth must occur in initial stages in order to reach a certain level
1449421451 :Proview!~proview@CPE0c473dd44b11-CM0c473dd44b10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com PART #imgurians :
1449421452 <FrenzyBanene> I don't understand why you're against growth
1449421456 >> <neutrak> however there must be a limit
1449421465 <zhinandtonic> A LIMIT.
1449421485 <zhinandtonic> we should stop looking for ways to be sustainable?
1449421489 >> <neutrak> FrenzyBanene: because we only have a certain number of resources, and we will eventually use them up and be /unable/ to grow
1449421497 >> <neutrak> zhinandtonic: you're misunderstanding me
1449421531 >> <neutrak> looking for ways to be sustainable is important, but sustaining /growth/ is different from sustaining /existence/
1449421580 <zhinandtonic> dude you're putting me out of a job with your ideal
1449421624 >> <neutrak> you can have a job if you want one, but I'm proposing removing the you-must-have-a-job-or-you-die requirement
1449421645 <zhinandtonic> I for one think having a job gives you purpose
1449421662 <zhinandtonic> I grew up with my mum not working
1449421673 :disc0rdia!53590baf@webchat.ircnet.net JOIN :#imgurians
1449421675 <zhinandtonic> she was never as lively as she was now
1449421676 >> <neutrak> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY this is an economics professor's lecture from about 2001 (the title is stupid but just ignore it)
1449421685 ***<tard> <neutrak> The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See (part 1 of 8) - YouTube
1449421688 <zhinandtonic> I mist depart
1449421689 <zhinandtonic> must
1449421697 <zhinandtonic> I have a deadline
1449421698 >> <neutrak> if you're genuinely curious about why growth can be a problem (FrenzyBanene); you might check it out
1449421701 >> <neutrak> okay later zhinandtonic
1449421703 >> <neutrak> no hard feelings
1449421705 >> <neutrak> good discussion
1449421707 <zhinandtonic> I have grossly digressed
1449421710 <zhinandtonic> sure
1449421715 >> <neutrak> :)
1449421717 >> <neutrak> still friends?
1449421756 <zhinandtonic> yeah
1449421760 >> <neutrak> :)
1449421769 >> <neutrak> have a nice day, zhinandtonic
1449421771 <zhinandtonic> agree to disagree etc
1449421773 >> <neutrak> mhm