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Diaspora Community Codechat, 03-01-2012

DeadSuperHero Mar 1st, 2012 212 Never
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  1. Mar 01 12:05:49 <denniscollective>      lets talk about Bug Mash Monday first!
  2. Mar 01 12:06:02 <denniscollective>      sean, hows that going?
  3. Mar 01 12:06:13 <DeadSuperHero> So yeah, ever since we've started it, we've cut down on a huge amount of bugs.
  4. Mar 01 12:06:25 <madamephilosophe>      That's great !
  5. Mar 01 12:06:27 <DeadSuperHero> Lots of things get fixed every week, and we can take the most annoying problems the community sees and turn it around.
  6. Mar 01 12:06:37 <DeadSuperHero> People get recognition for the changes they make.
  7. Mar 01 12:06:50 <DeadSuperHero> For example, text formatting is now waayyyy better, and discourse on D* is improved because of it.
  8. Mar 01 12:06:59 <DeadSuperHero> And Joe Bivins got great recognition for it.
  9. Mar 01 12:07:16 <DeadSuperHero> The downside is that this week seems to be a slow week. So far, no bugs have been claimed, and this happens sometimes.
  10. Mar 01 12:07:35 <DeadSuperHero> We just want to let potential contributors know that this is still going on, and we want to co-ordinate things with each and every person that shows up.
  11. Mar 01 12:08:05 <DeadSuperHero> The point is not just to fix bugs. The point is to learn how to work with the workflow, get used to D*'s design, and get recognition and "geek cred" from other contributors and even the team.
  12. Mar 01 12:08:34 <DeadSuperHero> Bugfixes in and of themselves are a side effect. This is a community-driven mentoring program, and for the past four or five weeks, it's been really great.
  13. Mar 01 12:09:05 <DeadSuperHero> So we just want to remind the community that if anyone wants to step up and help out, there's a lot you can do. We have everything from tiny CSS bugs to bigger, more complex Ruby ones.
  14. Mar 01 12:09:28 <DeadSuperHero> We have something to offer to everyone, and every user has the potential to help contribute and shape D* in their own special way.
  15. Mar 01 12:09:44 <DeadSuperHero> I myself have fixed two bugs, which makes me a happy guy because I'm not much of a developer.
  16. Mar 01 12:09:58 <denniscollective>      Our pull requests are way up
  17. Mar 01 12:10:00 <madamephilosophe>      Sorry, but how does one participate if one wants to? Where do you go, who do you contact?
  18. Mar 01 12:10:00 <denniscollective>      which is awesome
  19. Mar 01 12:10:02 <DeadSuperHero> But I'm pretty familiar with the workflow now, and hope to contribute more, and I hope that's the case for other contributors. :)
  20. Mar 01 12:10:11 <DeadSuperHero> You go to diaspora-discuss on the mailing list
  21. Mar 01 12:10:13 <DeadSuperHero> OR
  22. Mar 01 12:10:25 <DeadSuperHero> We also allow you to claim a bug in the comments of a BMM post on devblog.joindiaspora,.com
  23. Mar 01 12:10:31 <DeadSuperHero> devblog.joindiaspora.com
  24. Mar 01 12:10:31 <DeadSuperHero> :P
  25. Mar 01 12:10:42 <DeadSuperHero> Bugs are crossed out as they are claimed.
  26. Mar 01 12:10:44 <madamephilosophe>      Where is the link to the diaspora-discuss mailing list
  27. Mar 01 12:10:56 <denniscollective>      or, the github bug tracker, find an obnoxious bug, and slay it
  28. Mar 01 12:11:04 <DeadSuperHero> https://groups.google.com/group/diaspora-discuss
  29. Mar 01 12:11:07 <denniscollective>      http://groups.google.com/group/diaspora-discuss
  30. Mar 01 12:11:11 <DeadSuperHero> SHAZAM!
  31. Mar 01 12:11:12 <denniscollective>      BEAT ME DAMN
  32. Mar 01 12:11:12 <madamephilosophe>      Thanks!
  33. Mar 01 12:11:24 <denniscollective>      Thank you!
  34. Mar 01 12:11:26 <madamephilosophe>      Great minds think alike!
  35. Mar 01 12:11:30 <DeadSuperHero> No!
  36. Mar 01 12:11:34 <DeadSuperHero> Great minds think for themselves!
  37. Mar 01 12:11:38 <DeadSuperHero> Moving on!
  38. Mar 01 12:11:41 <denniscollective>      so sean has been doing a pretty great job riling up the community, which is awesome.
  39. Mar 01 12:11:52 <denniscollective>      our pull requests are way up, which is kinda difficult to stay on top of
  40. Mar 01 12:11:57 <denniscollective>      #goodproblemstohave
  41. Mar 01 12:12:03 <madamephilosophe>      Yes sean is awesome
  42. Mar 01 12:12:10 <DeadSuperHero> Yeah, we always have about 10 pull requests a day, at least.
  43. Mar 01 12:12:20 <denniscollective>      He's also, apparently, taken on the task of slaying the dragon of the wiki
  44. Mar 01 12:12:25 <DeadSuperHero> Oh, the wiki.
  45. Mar 01 12:12:30 <denniscollective>      :)
  46. Mar 01 12:12:40 <DeadSuperHero> So yeah, that's the next big thing I'm focusing on. Our documentation is a little messy.
  47. Mar 01 12:12:46 <denniscollective>      less is moar.
  48. Mar 01 12:12:46 <madamephilosophe>      Can you clarify pull requests? That's a fix that gets integrated in to the base?
  49. Mar 01 12:12:55 *       donnerkarlson (~donnerkar@mnhm-590e4649.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  50. Mar 01 12:13:10 <DeadSuperHero> It's when a user sends in code, we look at it, and decide whether to merge it into the main branch.
  51. Mar 01 12:13:22 <denniscollective>      it's on github
  52. Mar 01 12:13:38 <DeadSuperHero> The wiki is important because it details several things: the code documentation, contributor documentation, and policy documentation.
  53. Mar 01 12:13:39 <denniscollective>      https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/pulls
  54. Mar 01 12:13:48 <DeadSuperHero> It also has some pretty great information on third-party stuff.
  55. Mar 01 12:13:51 <madamephilosophe>      So it's a request, OK, but what do you call it when it actually gets merged?
  56. Mar 01 12:14:01 <DeadSuperHero> A merge.
  57. Mar 01 12:14:05 <madamephilosophe>      Ha ha
  58. Mar 01 12:14:17 *       pirate_chef (~pants@c-98-237-179-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  59. Mar 01 12:14:21 <denniscollective>      so yeah, the wiki has too much stuff in it
  60. Mar 01 12:14:23 <madamephilosophe>      Hey sean I'd be willing to help on the wiki.
  61. Mar 01 12:14:31 <DeadSuperHero> That's great, madamephilosophe !
  62. Mar 01 12:14:32 <DeadSuperHero> :)
  63. Mar 01 12:14:35 <denniscollective>      and people are having a hard time finding relevant information.
  64. Mar 01 12:14:43 <DeadSuperHero> Basically right now what I'm doing is creating a wiki-within-the-wiki
  65. Mar 01 12:14:46 <denniscollective>      sean is, I believe leading the charge on cleaning it up
  66. Mar 01 12:14:46 *       pirate_chef (~pants@c-98-237-179-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has left #diaspora-meeting
  67. Mar 01 12:14:52 <madamephilosophe>      Yes. DC, that is so tryue and my hugest concern.
  68. Mar 01 12:15:06 *       brent_bartlett (~pants@c-98-237-179-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  69. Mar 01 12:15:09 <DeadSuperHero> I've made a simplified alternative frontpage that I'm working on, and I'm sectioning off link headers with descriptions to what the pages are about.
  70. Mar 01 12:15:13 <madamephilosophe>      Hi Brent
  71. Mar 01 12:15:21 *       Filippol (41ff25a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.255.37.167) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  72. Mar 01 12:15:22 <brent_bartlett>        hey madame!
  73. Mar 01 12:15:29 <DeadSuperHero> GitHub's wiki is a little bit limited, but frankly the scope of what it needs to do right now is just convey information.
  74. Mar 01 12:15:35 <madamephilosophe>      :)
  75. Mar 01 12:15:44 <DeadSuperHero> So the best way to tackle that is to section things off, and links don't even need to be changed.
  76. Mar 01 12:15:45 <brent_bartlett>        Just read the comment about the meeting, and looked at the clock .... "Oh, that's right now"
  77. Mar 01 12:16:01 <madamephilosophe>      "Just convey information" isn't that all ishould do?  :)
  78. Mar 01 12:16:07 <DeadSuperHero> Haha, of course.
  79. Mar 01 12:16:15 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe: shouldn't we all?
  80. Mar 01 12:16:17 <vcuculo>       I like your frontpage sean
  81. Mar 01 12:16:20 <DeadSuperHero> But what we're doing also is cleaning up information on the wiki itself.
  82. Mar 01 12:16:32 <DeadSuperHero> Some of it is old and crusty from 15 iterations ago, some of it needs more explanation.
  83. Mar 01 12:16:43 <DeadSuperHero> And some of it, like what raven24 is doing, is utterly incredible.
  84. Mar 01 12:16:45 <necromancer>   DeadSuperHero: i volunteered to do that last meeting, and i have a plan of attack
  85. Mar 01 12:16:53 <DeadSuperHero> necromancer, excellent!
  86. Mar 01 12:16:55 <madamephilosophe>      sorry, isn't that all it should do (is convey information. It deosn't make sandwiches, for example. :)
  87. Mar 01 12:16:57 <brent_bartlett>        What needs to be done?
  88. Mar 01 12:16:57 <DeadSuperHero> Let's collaborate!
  89. Mar 01 12:16:59 <necromancer>   for reorganizing it, that is. still plugging away
  90. Mar 01 12:17:14 <madamephilosophe>      Can you post the link to the front page?
  91. Mar 01 12:17:17 <necromancer>   well, what i propose is that we split the wiki up between github and a self-hosted Gollum wiki at http://doc.diasporaproject.org
  92. Mar 01 12:17:18 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe, it's currently difficult to find relevant information in the wiki
  93. Mar 01 12:17:24 <denniscollective>      because there is so much old stuff in it
  94. Mar 01 12:17:27 <necromancer>   or whatever our domain is these days
  95. Mar 01 12:17:54 <DeadSuperHero> necromancer, I've thought about splitting up the wiki like that, but currently we have to keep in mind that with every new piece of software we rely on, that's potential future maintenance we have to be concerned about.
  96. Mar 01 12:18:14 <Spaceghostc2c> DeadSuperHero: What's raven24 doing?
  97. Mar 01 12:18:16 <necromancer>   DeadSuperHero: Gollum is the same technology that powers the GitHub wiki
  98. Mar 01 12:18:18 <DeadSuperHero> First thing's first, organize the information, make it robust and comprehensive, and make it a true resource center for everyone.
  99. Mar 01 12:18:31 <DeadSuperHero> Raven24 is writing beginner's guides with detailed diagrams and explanations.
  100. Mar 01 12:18:34 <necromancer>   will do
  101. Mar 01 12:18:35 <denniscollective>      necromancer: it's not so much about the technology, as the fact that people have to maintain it.
  102. Mar 01 12:18:48 <madamephilosophe>      Is there an information architecture diagram?
  103. Mar 01 12:18:57 <denniscollective>      turns out more sites is more effort.
  104. Mar 01 12:19:11 <necromancer>   denniscollective: agreed
  105. Mar 01 12:19:16 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe: I don't think so.
  106. Mar 01 12:19:33 <DeadSuperHero> Okay, so this is one being done by raven
  107. Mar 01 12:19:34 <DeadSuperHero> https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/wiki/Testing-workflow
  108. Mar 01 12:19:40 *       Ticho (~Ticho@unaffiliated/ticho) has left #diaspora-meeting ("strawberry")
  109. Mar 01 12:19:48 <DeadSuperHero> A complete explanation of testing, and why writing tests are important, with examples of how to do some tests.
  110. Mar 01 12:19:53 <DeadSuperHero> A perfect resource for any newcomer!
  111. Mar 01 12:19:57 <madamephilosophe>      I think if there were a large map of documentation then everyone would know where everyone is. SOrt od like an index or a sitemap with all links in it.
  112. Mar 01 12:20:06 <denniscollective>      so yeah, we're trying to clean up the wiki, sean is leading the charge, I think there is already an active discussion on the mailing list as well.
  113. Mar 01 12:20:10 <diasp> testing workflow well done
  114. Mar 01 12:20:11 <DeadSuperHero> madamephilosophe, duly noted.
  115. Mar 01 12:20:26 <madamephilosophe>      Can I help with that?
  116. Mar 01 12:20:34 <DeadSuperHero> Absolutely! :)
  117. Mar 01 12:20:41 <madamephilosophe>      Yay!
  118. Mar 01 12:20:45 *       andre__ (2eae2638@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.174.38.56) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  119. Mar 01 12:20:51 *       sarahmei (~sarahmei@75-101-111-130.dedicated.static.sonic.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  120. Mar 01 12:20:57 <DeadSuperHero> hi sarahmei
  121. Mar 01 12:20:59 <DeadSuperHero> hi andre__
  122. Mar 01 12:20:59 <sarahmei>      Hiyas
  123. Mar 01 12:21:02 <DeadSuperHero> :)
  124. Mar 01 12:21:08 <madamephilosophe>      Hi Sarahmei!
  125. Mar 01 12:21:10 *       andre__ is now known as Guest41320
  126. Mar 01 12:21:22 <denniscollective>      and so….
  127. Mar 01 12:21:26 <denniscollective>      moving on…..
  128. Mar 01 12:21:40 <DeadSuperHero> So moving along, those are the two really big community-driven things we'll be doing this coming week more, wiki and bugfixing.
  129. Mar 01 12:21:55 <DeadSuperHero> I'll also be making some tutorial videos on the side to explain some things visually.
  130. Mar 01 12:21:55 <denniscollective>      some of you may have noticed the new show pages we shipped this week ;-)
  131. Mar 01 12:22:01 <DeadSuperHero> Yes! They're awesome.
  132. Mar 01 12:22:03 <Guest41320>    hi
  133. Mar 01 12:22:11 <denniscollective>      morning Guest41320
  134. Mar 01 12:22:27 <denniscollective>      so the new show pages this week were step one in giving the user more power to customize their post
  135. Mar 01 12:22:35 <KevinKleinman> And I'll see if I can update the Diasporial tutorials soon ;-)
  136. Mar 01 12:22:45 <denniscollective>      a bunch of people are living for them, some other people have raised some valid concerns around them
  137. Mar 01 12:22:50 <madamephilosophe>      Do you mean the immersive posts?
  138. Mar 01 12:22:55 <denniscollective>      yup
  139. Mar 01 12:22:59 <madamephilosophe>      K
  140. Mar 01 12:23:06 <DeadSuperHero> We're looking at ways that we can help users make their content more expressive.
  141. Mar 01 12:23:19 <DeadSuperHero> Expression and creativity in a social setting is a big idea.
  142. Mar 01 12:23:19 <denniscollective>      the goal is to give the user more power to customize their content
  143. Mar 01 12:23:27 *       petarpetrovic (~petarpetr@stephania.petarpetrovic.com) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  144. Mar 01 12:23:33 <madamephilosophe>      I don't mean to be harsh at all but have users asked to be more expressive?
  145. Mar 01 12:23:54 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe we also wan to keep the barrier to posting low
  146. Mar 01 12:23:59 <KevinKleinman> You join a social networking to express yourself
  147. Mar 01 12:24:17 <madamephilosophe>      Of course.
  148. Mar 01 12:24:17 <DeadSuperHero> KevinKleinman, exactly, but the problem is most current social networks are not very customizable to fit the user.
  149. Mar 01 12:24:24 <KevinKleinman> Hell no
  150. Mar 01 12:24:26 <KevinKleinman> They suck
  151. Mar 01 12:24:28 <DeadSuperHero> The user is often forced to fit the paradigm of the network.
  152. Mar 01 12:24:33 <KevinKleinman> Facebook being on top of the list
  153. Mar 01 12:24:40 <DeadSuperHero> Exactly.
  154. Mar 01 12:24:53 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe some people just want to make quick posts, that is awesome. we want that experience to stay awesome
  155. Mar 01 12:24:56 <bla_>  timeline.
  156. Mar 01 12:25:08 <madamephilosophe>      OK, so the idea is to create flexibility so the user can post more like a blog?
  157. Mar 01 12:25:10 <KevinKleinman> I hate being forced to use a template when I can do something my way
  158. Mar 01 12:25:31 <DeadSuperHero> KevinKleinman, we're looking into that.
  159. Mar 01 12:25:41 <KevinKleinman> Not a Diaspora template mind you Sean!
  160. Mar 01 12:25:44 <DeadSuperHero> Haha.
  161. Mar 01 12:25:45 <DeadSuperHero> :)
  162. Mar 01 12:25:57 <madamephilosophe>      OK, so the idea is to create flexibility so the user can post more like a blog?
  163. Mar 01 12:26:02 <KevinKleinman> More like Excel and Word structures. I like to go off-road and build my thing
  164. Mar 01 12:26:12 <denniscollective>      so we want to give the user the power to customize the way their post is conveyed as much or as little as they want to
  165. Mar 01 12:26:12 <DeadSuperHero> We want to give users more power in regards to what they CAN express.
  166. Mar 01 12:26:23 <KevinKleinman> Madame, the idea is to present content in a way that fits the content
  167. Mar 01 12:26:24 <denniscollective>      if they write a long form blog article, we want that to look awesome
  168. Mar 01 12:26:24 <DeadSuperHero> The potentials are absolutely limitless.
  169. Mar 01 12:26:31 <KevinKleinman> A blog, a quote, a photo, a video
  170. Mar 01 12:26:36 <denniscollective>      if they post a picture and some text we want that to look awesome as well
  171. Mar 01 12:26:54 <denniscollective>      right now we're guessing which template, which has caused some problems to emerge
  172. Mar 01 12:26:54 <madamephilosophe>      I understand. But what about just giving them a publishing tool that allows for HTML, say. I'm not trying to poop on this, just asking questions.
  173. Mar 01 12:27:19 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe: maybe some day something like that
  174. Mar 01 12:27:20 <diasp> yeah but do we have a solution for the federation problems? before we doing some blog post things?
  175. Mar 01 12:27:23 <madamephilosophe>      Like a wsyiwyg like MCE?
  176. Mar 01 12:27:24 <denniscollective>      too hard right now.
  177. Mar 01 12:27:42 *       nunatakker (~nunatak@unaffiliated/nunatak) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  178. Mar 01 12:27:46 <madamephilosophe>      But couldn't it be simpler by just expaning upon Markdown?
  179. Mar 01 12:27:49 <KevinKleinman> Hold on a second people. How about looking at this from a different angle...
  180. Mar 01 12:28:08 <KevinKleinman> Why not focus on ways to improve the template system
  181. Mar 01 12:28:20 <KevinKleinman> The question is not really why, but why not
  182. Mar 01 12:28:35 <denniscollective>      diasp: we'll get to federation in a minute
  183. Mar 01 12:28:37 <KevinKleinman> What makes the template system bad?
  184. Mar 01 12:28:49 <denniscollective>      the broad goal is to give users as much power to customize their content as possible
  185. Mar 01 12:28:53 <madamephilosophe>      But couldn't it be simpler by just expaning upon Markdown?
  186. Mar 01 12:28:59 <KevinKleinman> No
  187. Mar 01 12:29:00 <denniscollective>      we are working in an iterative manner within that system
  188. Mar 01 12:29:09 <madamephilosophe>      Explain please?
  189. Mar 01 12:29:19 <KevinKleinman> Markdown allows you to add formatting to a post
  190. Mar 01 12:29:21 <denniscollective>      posts like this were only made possible by the new system
  191. Mar 01 12:29:22 <denniscollective>      https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1359731
  192. Mar 01 12:29:26 <KevinKleinman> It only tweaks the text
  193. Mar 01 12:29:31 <KevinKleinman> Not the way a full post is shown
  194. Mar 01 12:29:41 <KevinKleinman> Markdown doesn't create front, center attention
  195. Mar 01 12:29:52 <KevinKleinman> The best you could do, is making a shouty title
  196. Mar 01 12:29:54 <denniscollective>      we want to give users the option to not have that happen as well
  197. Mar 01 12:30:02 <madamephilosophe>      So you are talking about the stream version , but then allowing to make that post like a blog as in a webpage that takes the entore window, right?
  198. Mar 01 12:30:04 <KevinKleinman> ?
  199. Mar 01 12:30:05 <denniscollective>      so we want to make a "just render the markdown" template
  200. Mar 01 12:30:27 <DeadSuperHero> It's all about empowering users with choice over how their content looks in the system.
  201. Mar 01 12:30:37 <DeadSuperHero> If you want it to be a basic post with just markdown, no problem!
  202. Mar 01 12:30:39 <DeadSuperHero> We can do that. :)
  203. Mar 01 12:30:53 *       nunatak has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  204. Mar 01 12:30:58 *       grippi (~grippi@50-0-128-79.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  205. Mar 01 12:31:02 <denniscollective>      we've got some big dreams for how we would like that to be.
  206. Mar 01 12:31:04 <KevinKleinman> YAY! Hi Grippi!
  207. Mar 01 12:31:06 <DeadSuperHero> But if you want to try something a bit fancier and express things in a more visual manner, we want to explore that too and give the user diferent options to play with it.
  208. Mar 01 12:31:12 <DeadSuperHero> Yay! grippi is here!
  209. Mar 01 12:31:18 <grippi>        hey there
  210. Mar 01 12:31:24 <madamephilosophe>      Hi Daniel. Sorry you are feeling poorly
  211. Mar 01 12:31:26 <Spaceghostc2c> grippi: !
  212. Mar 01 12:31:27 <Spaceghostc2c> :D
  213. Mar 01 12:31:29 <denniscollective>      so our next step is to refactor the publisher so we can improve it.
  214. Mar 01 12:31:38 <grippi>        thx madamephilosophe :)
  215. Mar 01 12:31:46 <denniscollective>      (glad yr not dead grippi ;-p)
  216. Mar 01 12:31:48 <madamephilosophe>      I'm glad you made it!
  217. Mar 01 12:32:01 <grippi>        wooo
  218. Mar 01 12:32:12 <DenSchub>      huhu grippi :)
  219. Mar 01 12:32:14 <madamephilosophe>      How do I make private posts here?
  220. Mar 01 12:32:16 <grippi>        so i don't want to cause any holdup
  221. Mar 01 12:32:20 <grippi>        let's continue!
  222. Mar 01 12:32:24 <grippi>        and i'll catch up
  223. Mar 01 12:32:32 <necromancer>   madamephilosophe: /msg <nickname> <message>
  224. Mar 01 12:32:33 <denniscollective>      so we're gonna re-write the publisher, and hopefully give the users the power to manually choose which template to use
  225. Mar 01 12:32:33 <DeadSuperHero> madamephilosophe, just click a user's name (right click) and choose to open a chat window.
  226. Mar 01 12:32:38 <DeadSuperHero> If using Xchat.
  227. Mar 01 12:32:39 <DeadSuperHero> :P
  228. Mar 01 12:32:46 <madamephilosophe>      THanks all who just privated posted me!
  229. Mar 01 12:32:48 <necromancer>   lol /msg works on all clients lol
  230. Mar 01 12:32:50 <denniscollective>      and not to over promise, but I believe some sort of a preview is on the horizon as well
  231. Mar 01 12:32:57 <DeadSuperHero> :)
  232. Mar 01 12:33:13 <madamephilosophe>      Pistos preview has really changed my experience.
  233. Mar 01 12:33:24 <necromancer>   DeadSuperHero: i really like the concept of github's flavored markdown and the live preview pane
  234. Mar 01 12:33:45 <DeadSuperHero> Live preview is a great way of tweaking a post before sending it out to everyone.
  235. Mar 01 12:33:52 <DeadSuperHero> Also, <3 GF-Markdown.
  236. Mar 01 12:33:57 <KevinKleinman> I'm still wondering why some people think the templates are bad... care to explain?
  237. Mar 01 12:34:08 <DeadSuperHero> Some people just aren't used to them, and that's okay.
  238. Mar 01 12:34:11 <denniscollective>      KevinKleinman: let's move on ;-)
  239. Mar 01 12:34:21 <KevinKleinman> Well, I noticed on problem
  240. Mar 01 12:34:31 <KevinKleinman> Can I quickly tell?
  241. Mar 01 12:34:34 <denniscollective>      yes
  242. Mar 01 12:34:38 <grippi>        sure'
  243. Mar 01 12:34:39 <necromancer>   what i really like about the way they did it is they removed the need for a live preview by making the write/preview interface pills so you have to click something to generate the preview
  244. Mar 01 12:34:58 <KevinKleinman> Post pages used to be referred to by notifications to quickly show comments on posts.
  245. Mar 01 12:34:58 <necromancer>   this speeds up the action on the page, especially if all kinds of other JS shit is going on simultaneously
  246. Mar 01 12:35:15 <KevinKleinman> That flow is kinda broken now, because you need to open the comment section and scroll down
  247. Mar 01 12:35:34 <denniscollective>      thanks for pointing that out
  248. Mar 01 12:35:40 <denniscollective>      we'll think about it :)
  249. Mar 01 12:36:03 <KevinKleinman> And perhaps,perhaps, a way to enlarge the feedback pane, by dragging the top or something
  250. Mar 01 12:36:26 <grippi>        KevinKleinman: that would be rad
  251. Mar 01 12:36:26 <denniscollective>      there is a bunch of stuff that we can/hope to do
  252. Mar 01 12:36:32 <KevinKleinman> I know right
  253. Mar 01 12:36:41 <KevinKleinman> It would feel extremely native for me, being a gamer
  254. Mar 01 12:36:52 <grippi>        yeah
  255. Mar 01 12:36:55 <denniscollective>      this is step one, and we're stoked that you're seeing the awesome possibilities as well
  256. Mar 01 12:37:09 <denniscollective>      moving….
  257. Mar 01 12:37:11 <KevinKleinman> Maybe other people will feel the same
  258. Mar 01 12:37:15 <DeadSuperHero> So that's all that's going on with some of the UI stuff.
  259. Mar 01 12:37:17 <KevinKleinman> Definitely
  260. Mar 01 12:37:21 <DeadSuperHero> What about under the hood, Dennis?
  261. Mar 01 12:37:30 <denniscollective>      so
  262. Mar 01 12:37:38 <denniscollective>      we haven't made any major changes yet
  263. Mar 01 12:37:39 <diasp> federation ;-)
  264. Mar 01 12:37:42 <denniscollective>      but federation has to change
  265. Mar 01 12:37:52 <madamephilosophe>      WHy?
  266. Mar 01 12:38:05 <denniscollective>      j/d is the canary in the coal mine, and we've discovered some flaws in the current system that won't allow the network to gro
  267. Mar 01 12:38:05 <denniscollective>      w
  268. Mar 01 12:38:27 <madamephilosophe>      What are the bullet points of those obstructions?
  269. Mar 01 12:38:28 *       star_ (5e2122d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.33.34.210) has left #diaspora-meeting
  270. Mar 01 12:38:30 <denniscollective>      first j/d is too big, for the current system,
  271. Mar 01 12:38:39 <madamephilosophe>      word
  272. Mar 01 12:38:44 <denniscollective>      so we want to implement federation within jd
  273. Mar 01 12:39:00 <madamephilosophe>      Pods within a pod?
  274. Mar 01 12:39:06 <KevinKleinman> INCEPTION!
  275. Mar 01 12:39:19 <KevinKleinman> Sorry bout that..
  276. Mar 01 12:39:27 <SlackerD>      :P
  277. Mar 01 12:39:34 <denniscollective>      for that to work, we'll have to write a real system for migrating users data between pods
  278. Mar 01 12:39:41 <denniscollective>      which will be great for users to have
  279. Mar 01 12:39:52 <denniscollective>      because then they'll hopefully be able to migrate
  280. Mar 01 12:39:53 <madamephilosophe>      Sorry, DC do you mean Pods within a pod??
  281. Mar 01 12:40:01 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe: maybe
  282. Mar 01 12:40:15 <madamephilosophe>      I am just wanting to get my head around it.
  283. Mar 01 12:40:16 <denniscollective>      this is one possible solution the jd is too big problem
  284. Mar 01 12:40:33 <denniscollective>      I don't want to say *yes* because its not definite
  285. Mar 01 12:40:41 <denniscollective>      but its what we're talking about ;-)
  286. Mar 01 12:40:44 <madamephilosophe>      Sure.
  287. Mar 01 12:40:44 <DeadSuperHero> The team's been looking at this problem from every angle.
  288. Mar 01 12:40:53 <madamephilosophe>      I have a question
  289. Mar 01 12:40:56 <denniscollective>      so that is one problem jd is too big
  290. Mar 01 12:41:04 <madamephilosophe>      Could it be that it has gotten so large because:
  291. Mar 01 12:41:07 <denniscollective>      there are other problems
  292. Mar 01 12:41:17 <madamephilosophe>      1. No one knows that they don't have to stay on the pod.
  293. Mar 01 12:41:28 *       stwf (~stwf_@149.28.3.136) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  294. Mar 01 12:41:30 <madamephilosophe>      2. That people can't leave because they dont' know where to go.
  295. Mar 01 12:41:46 <madamephilosophe>      3. The tools are not mature enough to let them grab their data and migrate?
  296. Mar 01 12:41:55 *       str4ngerZ (5667f5dd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.103.245.221) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  297. Mar 01 12:41:57 <madamephilosophe>      I'm just asking...
  298. Mar 01 12:42:07 <str4ngerZ>     ohla senores!
  299. Mar 01 12:42:09 <KevinKleinman> You're talking about the consequences, not the problem, Madame
  300. Mar 01 12:42:20 <madamephilosophe>      Actually no.
  301. Mar 01 12:42:22 <KevinKleinman> Problem is everyone signs up and gets referred to joindiaspora.com
  302. Mar 01 12:42:35 <madamephilosophe>      I actually would like DC to answer, if that's OK.
  303. Mar 01 12:42:48 <KevinKleinman> I'm adding to that problem, by not inviting people for pods I can't guarantee their stability
  304. Mar 01 12:42:54 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe writing the pods within pods solution would drive out the ability for users to export their data somewhere else
  305. Mar 01 12:42:54 <KevinKleinman> Sure
  306. Mar 01 12:42:58 <denniscollective>      which I think would eb a good thing
  307. Mar 01 12:43:05 <denniscollective>      that said, I think we should also be able to have big pods
  308. Mar 01 12:43:09 <bla_>  maybe it's just the problem, that it's to difficult to set up an own pod?!
  309. Mar 01 12:43:31 <madamephilosophe>      Respectfully, but wasn't the idea to be able to move around pods at will, if one wanted to do that?
  310. Mar 01 12:43:43 <denniscollective>      since federation is rapidly changing, we don't really want to encourage users to set up their own pods until it stabilizes
  311. Mar 01 12:43:52 <Spaceghostc2c> Not that I knew.
  312. Mar 01 12:43:53 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe: that's what we want to build
  313. Mar 01 12:44:02 <madamephilosophe>      OK.
  314. Mar 01 12:44:04 <madamephilosophe>      BUT
  315. Mar 01 12:44:14 <denniscollective>      this isn't the only problem...
  316. Mar 01 12:44:21 <madamephilosophe>      there are pods starting up now that people could move to.
  317. Mar 01 12:44:37 <denniscollective>      the other problem is
  318. Mar 01 12:44:42 <madamephilosophe>      OK, if I'm slowing talk down, please let me know.
  319. Mar 01 12:44:54 <denniscollective>      that the current federation protocol can't deal with a network with very much traffic
  320. Mar 01 12:45:26 <denniscollective>      once you get a few popular people on a pod, your queue length backs up forever
  321. Mar 01 12:45:30 *       raven24 (~florian@vie-078-142-128-038.dsl.sil.at) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  322. Mar 01 12:45:34 <Spaceghostc2c> raven24: :D
  323. Mar 01 12:45:42 <madamephilosophe>      What is queue length exactly?
  324. Mar 01 12:45:51 <madamephilosophe>      Hi raven!
  325. Mar 01 12:46:02 <diasp> more workers doesn't solve this?
  326. Mar 01 12:46:09 <raven24>       hi, sorry, couldn't make it earlier :(
  327. Mar 01 12:46:15 <Spaceghostc2c> madamephilosophe: Jobs that need doing by workers are put on the queue.
  328. Mar 01 12:46:23 <denniscollective>      there are worker processes that handle things like incoming data, since it doesn't have to be real time, there is a queue
  329. Mar 01 12:46:33 <denniscollective>      so more workers theoretically solves it
  330. Mar 01 12:46:40 <denniscollective>      but that places a greater burden on a pod
  331. Mar 01 12:46:50 <madamephilosophe>      Thanks for explaning that!
  332. Mar 01 12:46:59 <denniscollective>      small pods have to have very big databases, and a bunch of workers in the current arcitchetcure
  333. Mar 01 12:47:08 <madamephilosophe>      is that what resque is?
  334. Mar 01 12:47:12 <denniscollective>      we want to change federation so people can run small pods for cheaper
  335. Mar 01 12:47:12 <Spaceghostc2c> Yes
  336. Mar 01 12:47:35 <madamephilosophe>      DC that seems a good goal to me.
  337. Mar 01 12:47:56 <Spaceghostc2c> denniscollective: There'd be a massive pushback, but I'd enjoy using jruby and java and other jvm libs with that sort of goal.
  338. Mar 01 12:47:56 <str4ngerZ>     is resque the only options for workerthreads? are there any experiences with resque-performance on high-volume-installations beside diaspora?
  339. Mar 01 12:48:07 <Spaceghostc2c> madamephilosophe: If you press tab after typing denn it'll autocomplete his name.
  340. Mar 01 12:48:20 <madamephilosophe>      I recall pistos talking about that a month ago.
  341. Mar 01 12:48:22 <denniscollective>      str4ngerZ yes and yes
  342. Mar 01 12:48:24 <Spaceghostc2c> str4ngerZ: There's other background job libs, but I don't think you can improve much in the worker world.
  343. Mar 01 12:48:35 <vcuculo>       how could you limit the growing of a pod? except that with invite system
  344. Mar 01 12:48:39 <diasp> do you want to develop a new Federation Protocol?
  345. Mar 01 12:48:43 <Spaceghostc2c> The worker still needs to load environment.
  346. Mar 01 12:49:14 <denniscollective>      this isn't on the immediate horizon, but it is necessary to change before beta, for the stability of the network
  347. Mar 01 12:49:27 <str4ngerZ>     another question: how are you going to deal with the ever-growing data?
  348. Mar 01 12:50:00 <madamephilosophe>      It would be cool to have voluntary expiration dates.
  349. Mar 01 12:50:02 <denniscollective>      by having pods care about less data, and ask for data more often, maybe
  350. Mar 01 12:50:05 <madamephilosophe>      (on data)
  351. Mar 01 12:50:17 <Spaceghostc2c> denniscollective: Preguntas y commentarios on the jvm stuff?
  352. Mar 01 12:50:17 <str4ngerZ>     i would opt-in for a system that forgets about old posts, if not flagged sticky
  353. Mar 01 12:50:55 <Spaceghostc2c> I guess it'd be a better thing to see the newrelic info on a high traffic pod.
  354. Mar 01 12:51:08 <denniscollective>      Spaceghostc2c: unlikely, the core team isn't that comfortable in java, which would be a block node.js is more likely, but not definite.
  355. Mar 01 12:51:08 <str4ngerZ>     denniscollective: no, this doesnt solve the problem. you'll have mmore networkload then
  356. Mar 01 12:51:10 <DeadSuperHero> str4ngerZ, I dunno about that. Personally, I have some really great old posts with great conversations that I'd be sad to let go if they were dleted.
  357. Mar 01 12:51:30 <denniscollective>      so federation is a challenging problem
  358. Mar 01 12:51:43 <denniscollective>      I'm not saying we have a definite answer yet, but it is clear that something has to change
  359. Mar 01 12:51:44 <Spaceghostc2c> denniscollective: You don't need any java to do jruby.
  360. Mar 01 12:51:48 <madamephilosophe>      That's why it could be voluntary exip date set by the user.
  361. Mar 01 12:52:07 <str4ngerZ>     DeadSuperHero: liek selecting aspects one could select: persistent / delete after 1/3/6 months
  362. Mar 01 12:52:17 <DeadSuperHero> Oh. Well, maybe. I dunno.
  363. Mar 01 12:52:19 <Spaceghostc2c> It's something a lot of people think they have to know. I don't know how to write in the java language, but I know how to work with the JVM and read java. Plus go jvm languages.
  364. Mar 01 12:52:21 <str4ngerZ>     madamephilosophe: you know what i mean ;-)
  365. Mar 01 12:52:31 <Spaceghostc2c> denniscollective: You guys run newrelic on jd, right?
  366. Mar 01 12:52:47 <denniscollective>      Spaceghostc2c: yup
  367. Mar 01 12:52:56 *       Filippol has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  368. Mar 01 12:53:09 <madamephilosophe>      I feel we are getting too far away form federdation, or no?
  369. Mar 01 12:53:12 <Spaceghostc2c> denniscollective: Ever consider publishing some of the graphs and data so people can know what they should work on?
  370. Mar 01 12:53:36 <Spaceghostc2c> We're using it in the corporation I work for.
  371. Mar 01 12:53:40 <Spaceghostc2c> Pretty halpful.
  372. Mar 01 12:53:40 <DeadSuperHero> These are all interesting questions, and we'll be willing to answer them at the end, but let's focus on federation at the moment.
  373. Mar 01 12:53:51 <denniscollective>      that's a decent idea, we don't have very good monitoring in our workers, which is where the problems are
  374. Mar 01 12:54:06 <diasp> do you have a wiki page for the federation stuff?
  375. Mar 01 12:54:08 <madamephilosophe>      word. Space has a good point but I elect we save that ti=opic and revisit?
  376. Mar 01 12:54:40 <denniscollective>      we aren't certain about the solution to federation yet, but it's kind of clear that something has to change.
  377. Mar 01 12:54:48 <Spaceghostc2c> denniscollective: Oh in that case, I've been curious, does the federation cause each message to be broadcast once or multiple times to each recieving node?
  378. Mar 01 12:55:02 <denniscollective>      multiple times.
  379. Mar 01 12:55:03 <Spaceghostc2c> I was fiddling with a federated wikiblag.
  380. Mar 01 12:55:24 <madamephilosophe>      So the problem is that the current model creates unwieldy traffic and there are bottlenecks, is that fair to say?
  381. Mar 01 12:55:25 <denniscollective>      federation works like smtp right now.
  382. Mar 01 12:55:43 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe so much so that pods take each other down.
  383. Mar 01 12:55:46 *       Spaceghostc2c goes and thinkificates on teh idea that it could be possible to broadcast a single message.
  384. Mar 01 12:56:24 <str4ngerZ>     please no broadcast.
  385. Mar 01 12:56:42 <Spaceghostc2c> str4ngerZ: You'd rather send the messages individually to your swarm?
  386. Mar 01 12:56:57 <denniscollective>      there could be a lot of progress that can be made with incremental improvement to our current system, which is how we'll try and approach things first, but it's clear that there will probably need to be something more, for the network to be more stable
  387. Mar 01 12:57:04 <diasp> so what's the roadmap for federation? 1) write down your thoughts 2) create a prototype? 3) write some tests...?
  388. Mar 01 12:57:06 *       denniscollective ponders
  389. Mar 01 12:57:32 <Spaceghostc2c> denniscollective: Is your message id uniqueness relatively solid?
  390. Mar 01 12:57:48 <denniscollective>      we're working on getting an actual roadmap on the wiki
  391. Mar 01 12:57:55 <madamephilosophe>      wait. let's let dennis get it out.
  392. Mar 01 12:57:56 <denniscollective>      Spaceghostc2c: yes
  393. Mar 01 12:58:19 *       dave_y (~dave_y@mobile-198-228-221-009.mycingular.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  394. Mar 01 12:58:24 <vcuculo>       did u thought to implement federation using xmpp?
  395. Mar 01 12:58:27 <madamephilosophe>      Hi dave!
  396. Mar 01 12:58:28 <denniscollective>      we want to let you guys know what our goals for the project are, and we want to put that on the wiki.
  397. Mar 01 12:58:37 <Spaceghostc2c> denniscollective: Mkay. Is there a page on the github wiki?
  398. Mar 01 12:58:45 <madamephilosophe>      I'll fill you in on what you missed, OK?
  399. Mar 01 12:58:49 <denniscollective>      not one that is recent yet.
  400. Mar 01 12:58:59 <DeadSuperHero> madamephilosophe, we'll put logs up of the chat. :)
  401. Mar 01 12:59:27 <str4ngerZ>     Spaceghostc2c: i use a central key/value store (memcache for the win ;-) but on another project. broadcasts will kill the network.
  402. Mar 01 12:59:50 <Spaceghostc2c> str4ngerZ: Broadcasts can't kill the network anymore than sending the same message to each recipient does.
  403. Mar 01 13:00:05 <Spaceghostc2c> Send one message for others to read or send it muiltiple times individually.
  404. Mar 01 13:00:18 <Spaceghostc2c> str4ngerZ: I prefer orientdb for my work.
  405. Mar 01 13:00:25 <str4ngerZ>     some intelligent push/pull - algorythms
  406. Mar 01 13:00:36 <Spaceghostc2c> str4ngerZ: How does that lower overhead though?
  407. Mar 01 13:00:48 <Spaceghostc2c> It's still passing messages individually in the swarm.
  408. Mar 01 13:00:49 <denniscollective>      diasp: write now the federation workflow is more like have a conversation have more conversation make a toy prototype have more conversation
  409. Mar 01 13:01:10 <diasp> yes thats the way i like it ;-)
  410. Mar 01 13:01:11 <denniscollective>      the problem is that the ideas move so fast
  411. Mar 01 13:01:13 <Spaceghostc2c> denniscollective: Have you seen the work that went into bitcoin?
  412. Mar 01 13:01:20 <denniscollective>      nope
  413. Mar 01 13:01:31 <Spaceghostc2c> Regarding the stack of checksums used to verify reality.
  414. Mar 01 13:01:39 <denniscollective>      so we're trying to figure stuff out, so that it is relatively stable enough to write it down
  415. Mar 01 13:01:56 <str4ngerZ>     Spaceghostc2c: you push on updates to one source and pull on request from that source.
  416. Mar 01 13:01:57 <Spaceghostc2c> Basically each node downloads a 'stack' of checksums. Each time some event happens, it adds onto the stack and federates the changes.
  417. Mar 01 13:02:05 <Spaceghostc2c> str4ngerZ: Sorry, that won't work in a federated world.
  418. Mar 01 13:02:14 <madamephilosophe>      Repectfully, can we let dennis get it out?
  419. Mar 01 13:02:15 <str4ngerZ>     yes, i know ;-)
  420. Mar 01 13:02:35 <madamephilosophe>      Sorry, I didn't mean to sound suggestive!  :)
  421. Mar 01 13:02:36 <Spaceghostc2c> madamephilosophe: This is IRC, it's a place where people can chat actively. If you'd like, you're welcome to ignore my messages with your client.
  422. Mar 01 13:02:48 <denniscollective>      lets play nice :)
  423. Mar 01 13:02:49 <Spaceghostc2c> denniscollective: Did you want us to hush for a bit?
  424. Mar 01 13:03:25 <madamephilosophe>      Some people can only be here for a limited time an they came to hear what the dev crew has to say, is all.
  425. Mar 01 13:03:25 <Spaceghostc2c> You could use channel modes to filter non-voice from talking temporarily.
  426. Mar 01 13:03:25 <denniscollective>      not particularly, that said federation is very very complicated, it needs to be fixed before beta, but its not what the core team is thinking about right now
  427. Mar 01 13:03:43 <DeadSuperHero> Well I mean, they are thinking about it.
  428. Mar 01 13:03:47 <DeadSuperHero> But there's a lot to do.
  429. Mar 01 13:04:26 <denniscollective>      we're going to get a roadmap up soon so that everyone can be on the same page
  430. Mar 01 13:04:49 <DeadSuperHero> And I promise we'll make it easy to find.
  431. Mar 01 13:04:56 <vcuculo>       I know that federation is the first priority, but I would like to receive a feedback about chat feature
  432. Mar 01 13:04:59 <madamephilosophe>      Roadmap that is up to date is very importnat. May I suggest that DATES are included?
  433. Mar 01 13:05:03 <vcuculo>       which are the plans
  434. Mar 01 13:05:05 <denniscollective>      hopefully after we get stale info off the wiki, we can make a smaller wiki we'll be up to date
  435. Mar 01 13:05:08 *       napster has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  436. Mar 01 13:05:22 <vcuculo>       since me and diasp are working to put ideas togheter
  437. Mar 01 13:05:30 <Spaceghostc2c> denniscollective: If we moved to a fire and forget on the publishing server, where the message is checksummed or whatever mechanism into a stack of those values and then a sort of "everyone update" message is tossed out into the swarm, then everyone can pull from that server and verify against each other in a peer-to-peer fashion.
  438. Mar 01 13:05:35 <madamephilosophe>      I mean dates that the content was published.
  439. Mar 01 13:05:40 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe: dates are largely lies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development
  440. Mar 01 13:05:50 <denniscollective>      we can make some estimates
  441. Mar 01 13:05:56 <Spaceghostc2c> Distributing not only the message, but the verifications and metadata via peer to peer technology.
  442. Mar 01 13:06:11 <madamephilosophe>      No I don't mean dates as deadlines, I mean dates of when the roadmap items were posted.
  443. Mar 01 13:06:36 <Spaceghostc2c> I'd get a little ugh if the message isn't stored on receiving nodes. But could be mitigated.
  444. Mar 01 13:06:40 *       TakinOver (~sabayonus@pool-98-112-50-173.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  445. Mar 01 13:07:04 <denniscollective>      they haven't been posted yet, I would say today, or tomorrow, but the core team is sick in bed, so "soon" will have to suffice
  446. Mar 01 13:07:09 *       dave_y has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
  447. Mar 01 13:07:15 <denniscollective>      wherein soon is a function of us not being in bed.
  448. Mar 01 13:07:25 <madamephilosophe>      :)
  449. Mar 01 13:07:28 <Pistos>        Aw, get well soon.
  450. Mar 01 13:07:32 <denniscollective>      thanks
  451. Mar 01 13:07:39 <DeadSuperHero> Yeah, I'm literally the only guy with D* that isn't sick, and I work from bed anyway.
  452. Mar 01 13:07:48 <DeadSuperHero> :P
  453. Mar 01 13:07:49 <denniscollective>      broadly
  454. Mar 01 13:07:53 <KevinKleinman> I believe Vittorio asked an interesting question that needs answering
  455. Mar 01 13:07:58 <madamephilosophe>      Maybe if we all get in bed, you'll all get better?
  456. Mar 01 13:08:08 <denniscollective>      chat is a long conversation that I don't know that much about
  457. Mar 01 13:08:31 <KevinKleinman> The thing is that chat functionality never had a clear vision
  458. Mar 01 13:08:44 <madamephilosophe>      I think there's a lot of potential for chat tp be sure.
  459. Mar 01 13:08:50 <KevinKleinman> Vittorio has worked on it for a long time and he doesn't know where he stands, neither does anyone else know
  460. Mar 01 13:09:12 <vcuculo>       KevinKleinman, ?
  461. Mar 01 13:09:18 <madamephilosophe>      But could we go back to federation?
  462. Mar 01 13:09:18 <KevinKleinman> Is it worth the effort or is he wasting his time?
  463. Mar 01 13:09:27 *       proooova (973055e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.48.85.226) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  464. Mar 01 13:09:43 <denniscollective>      has there been talk on the mailing list recently?
  465. Mar 01 13:09:56 <KevinKleinman> About the chat?
  466. Mar 01 13:09:58 <madamephilosophe>      I think chat is worth it. And I'm grateful to have it, but I also want to hear about federation
  467. Mar 01 13:09:59 <brent_bartlett>        Was this XMPP-based, or something else?
  468. Mar 01 13:10:10 <vcuculo>       yes brent_bartlett
  469. Mar 01 13:10:15 <DeadSuperHero> Yeah, we haven't heard much about the chat recently, aside from I know that diasp was interested in working on it.
  470. Mar 01 13:10:45 <KevinKleinman> What I thought is that the core team didn't want to run any chat for joindiaspora.com because of the required resources
  471. Mar 01 13:10:57 <denniscollective>      as stated, chat is a long conversation that I don't know that much about, the mailing list would probably be a more appropriate place to discuss, as I don't know enough about the history to comment authoritatively right now
  472. Mar 01 13:11:12 <vcuculo>       yes DeadSuperHero we have started to write a wiki about it
  473. Mar 01 13:11:19 <diasp> status quo: https://github.com/vcuculo/diaspora/wiki/XMPP-chat-feature
  474. Mar 01 13:11:20 <vcuculo>       and to put ideas togheter
  475. Mar 01 13:11:22 <denniscollective>      there is a discussion to be had, and not a definite answer squeezed out immediately
  476. Mar 01 13:11:28 <KevinKleinman> I think Vittorio deserves to know whether it's worth his time to develop a chat for Diaspora. So much uncertainty.
  477. Mar 01 13:11:31 <vcuculo>       diasp, exactly
  478. Mar 01 13:11:47 *       petarpetrovic has quit (Quit: petarpetrovic)
  479. Mar 01 13:11:53 <vcuculo>       we can plan this discussion
  480. Mar 01 13:12:00 <KevinKleinman> Should
  481. Mar 01 13:12:06 <vcuculo>       a chat meeting about chat
  482. Mar 01 13:12:08 <vcuculo>       :)
  483. Mar 01 13:12:13 <madamephilosophe>      :)
  484. Mar 01 13:12:17 <KevinKleinman> I'd come
  485. Mar 01 13:12:40 <vcuculo>       first of all I would to know
  486. Mar 01 13:12:50 <denniscollective>      KevinKleinman stop trying to be such a champion, I don't want to make a definite answer because one does not exist right now, there is a discussion that I don't know about, If you want to force me to say "yes" or "no" to something I have very little idea about I can, make something up, but it won't be true
  487. Mar 01 13:12:52 <necromancer>   hey here's an idea
  488. Mar 01 13:13:01 <necromancer>   why aren't we using XMPP for federation? :)
  489. Mar 01 13:13:12 <vcuculo>       wich is the roadmap, what pod will become
  490. Mar 01 13:13:15 <diasp> the roadmap should answers questions like this - when vittorio can restart the chat development
  491. Mar 01 13:13:22 <madamephilosophe>      Can we reschedule the convo for chat featuere to another time?
  492. Mar 01 13:13:28 <KevinKleinman> Geez, sorry dude
  493. Mar 01 13:13:28 <vcuculo>       so that they can affort an xmpp server on them or not
  494. Mar 01 13:13:31 <TakinOver>     Yes, for getting some answers about the future of chat / IM and yes to getting some answers about federation.
  495. Mar 01 13:13:37 <madamephilosophe>      I thinkk DC asked if we could talk about that on the maillist right?
  496. Mar 01 13:13:47 <madamephilosophe>      Is that OK with vcvculo?
  497. Mar 01 13:13:51 <necromancer>   you don't need XMPP for chat
  498. Mar 01 13:13:52 <necromancer>   btw
  499. Mar 01 13:13:57 <denniscollective>      KevinKleinman, it's all good, we're all trying to work together.
  500. Mar 01 13:14:04 <necromancer>   and generally i don't think this feature is that important
  501. Mar 01 13:14:17 <necromancer>   plus it's a FEATURE and we need to focus on getting BUGS fixed so we can launch this damn thing already
  502. Mar 01 13:14:27 <KevinKleinman> I understand you may not be familiar with the topic; Max is, Dan probably as well
  503. Mar 01 13:14:46 <necromancer>   xmpp is kinda clunky for web-based chat these days, imo. if you just want chat you can do it with Faye
  504. Mar 01 13:14:46 <madamephilosophe>      So then it's probably a waste to talk about it here, since Max isn't here.
  505. Mar 01 13:14:48 <brent_bartlett>        You don't NEED XMPP for chat, but it's a free, open standard
  506. Mar 01 13:14:49 <DeadSuperHero> Regardless of opinion, we encourage people to talk about it on the mailing list.
  507. Mar 01 13:14:57 <necromancer>   brent_bartlett: so is ajax
  508. Mar 01 13:14:58 <DeadSuperHero> We're getting way off-topic.
  509. Mar 01 13:15:01 <KevinKleinman> I don't want contributors to be hurt by their work not being merged
  510. Mar 01 13:15:02 <KevinKleinman> Yeah
  511. Mar 01 13:15:10 <denniscollective>      XMPP is very heavy, and requires a lot of resources to run.
  512. Mar 01 13:15:11 <necromancer>   KevinKleinman: i'm sure their butts will heal
  513. Mar 01 13:15:25 <TakinOver>     Necromancer, I think they have to decide one way or the other, because their decision will open or close the door for the future.
  514. Mar 01 13:15:39 <vcuculo>       good, I guess a chat meet about chat is needed to dont go off-topic here
  515. Mar 01 13:15:43 <necromancer>   TakinOver: then "no"
  516. Mar 01 13:15:48 <vcuculo>       and to discuss about alternatives
  517. Mar 01 13:15:57 <necromancer>   because we are done adding features
  518. Mar 01 13:15:58 <madamephilosophe>      That's great.
  519. Mar 01 13:15:59 <vcuculo>       and possible implementations
  520. Mar 01 13:16:11 <denniscollective>      vcuculo <3
  521. Mar 01 13:16:21 <denniscollective>      lets take it to the mailing list :)
  522. Mar 01 13:16:23 <brent_bartlett>        I just thought that using something that'd already been developed would save a lot of time and resources. But if it's not appropriate, it's not appropriate
  523. Mar 01 13:16:27 <necromancer>   denniscollective: +1
  524. Mar 01 13:16:27 <vcuculo>       we'll keep in touch in ml about it
  525. Mar 01 13:16:28 <madamephilosophe>      Dennis the last thing I think you said had to do with the roadmap and getting htat pdated?
  526. Mar 01 13:16:31 <vcuculo>       yeep
  527. Mar 01 13:16:48 <DeadSuperHero> Right, so we want to get everyone on the same page.
  528. Mar 01 13:16:58 <madamephilosophe>      I think that is REALLY important.
  529. Mar 01 13:17:04 <denniscollective>      I agree :0
  530. Mar 01 13:17:06 <DeadSuperHero> It really is.
  531. Mar 01 13:17:09 <denniscollective>      that ws meant to be :)
  532. Mar 01 13:17:28 <madamephilosophe>      I think a lot of problems come from crossed messages.
  533. Mar 01 13:17:45 <denniscollective>      agreed.
  534. Mar 01 13:17:47 <madamephilosophe>      I think everyione here means well, but there is some lag and then people miscontrue.
  535. Mar 01 13:18:03 <DeadSuperHero> Cohesion is everything.
  536. Mar 01 13:18:05 <madamephilosophe>      If there were a roadmap and even announcements that it was updated on the stream, that might help?
  537. Mar 01 13:18:15 <DeadSuperHero> Absolutely agree.
  538. Mar 01 13:18:25 <denniscollective>      thankfully we've got sean and kayla to help us do that stuff now.
  539. Mar 01 13:18:26 <madamephilosophe>      Sorry, there IS a roadmap, but I mean t=one that was actively current.
  540. Mar 01 13:18:31 <DeadSuperHero> denniscollective, that's right! :)
  541. Mar 01 13:19:13 <Pistos>        The number one problem with Diaspora Inc is and has been insufficient communication.  Any other effort they undergo becomes crippled or undermined by this root problem.  #thatisall
  542. Mar 01 13:19:14 <denniscollective>      its very hard for one person to manage coding, support, and community documentation
  543. Mar 01 13:19:21 <denniscollective>      thankfully we have more people to help now
  544. Mar 01 13:19:34 <DeadSuperHero> :)
  545. Mar 01 13:19:50 <denniscollective>      Pistos, i think communication has improved since the beginning of the year
  546. Mar 01 13:19:50 <madamephilosophe>      Well it has to do with appearance in a way.
  547. Mar 01 13:19:54 <denniscollective>      and is continuing to improve
  548. Mar 01 13:19:56 <DeadSuperHero> We want to get our information out there so that it can be as helpful as possible.
  549. Mar 01 13:20:04 <Pistos>        denniscollective: Yes, I grant you that.  I applaud it, support it, encourage it, and affirm it.
  550. Mar 01 13:20:06 <DeadSuperHero> So that everyone can know where we're at.
  551. Mar 01 13:20:18 <Pistos>        denniscollective: There's more improvement yet that's needed in this regard, though.
  552. Mar 01 13:20:22 <denniscollective>      open source projects benefit greatly from having core teams work on them full time, diaspora inc wants to make that possible
  553. Mar 01 13:20:22 <madamephilosophe>      I would say that you also need to get the community involved too in pushing out info.
  554. Mar 01 13:20:37 <DeadSuperHero> That'll be my job, madamephilosophe :)
  555. Mar 01 13:20:41 <madamephilosophe>      And you need a "valve system" for also getting info to you.
  556. Mar 01 13:20:54 <denniscollective>      sean@joindiaspora.com ?
  557. Mar 01 13:20:58 <DeadSuperHero> Yus
  558. Mar 01 13:21:06 <madamephilosophe>      Sean would be the interface between the devs and the community
  559. Mar 01 13:21:21 <DeadSuperHero> I read and respond to literally all of my JD.com emails.
  560. Mar 01 13:21:22 <madamephilosophe>      ut you need another layer, another onion skin going out.
  561. Mar 01 13:21:27 <Pistos>        DeadSuperHero: I very much applaud your efforts, especially in the last couple weeks.
  562. Mar 01 13:21:28 <denniscollective>      that's why we hired him :)
  563. Mar 01 13:21:32 <DeadSuperHero> Pistos, <3
  564. Mar 01 13:21:48 <madamephilosophe>      Sean is doing a great job. But It's a LOT for one person.
  565. Mar 01 13:21:58 <DeadSuperHero> I've got a handle on it.
  566. Mar 01 13:21:58 <madamephilosophe>       Use the community. ask for volunteers to help?
  567. Mar 01 13:22:01 <str4ngerZ>     Pistos: DeadSuperHero: yes, sean, nice job
  568. Mar 01 13:22:01 <DeadSuperHero> Yes.
  569. Mar 01 13:22:32 *       bla_ (b21a2455@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.26.36.85) has left #diaspora-meeting
  570. Mar 01 13:22:34 <str4ngerZ>     and good comments i must say.
  571. Mar 01 13:22:35 <madamephilosophe>      Sorry, I don't mean to belittle your efforts that you can't handle is.
  572. Mar 01 13:22:42 *       Guest41320 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  573. Mar 01 13:22:43 <denniscollective>      we're working on it
  574. Mar 01 13:22:57 *       shmerl (~hillel@pool-72-68-165-236.nycmny.east.verizon.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  575. Mar 01 13:23:10 <madamephilosophe>      But there could be a representative system from each pod perhaps.
  576. Mar 01 13:23:14 <TakinOver>     I agree. Sean is doing a good job.
  577. Mar 01 13:23:14 <DeadSuperHero> Community is everything, and I'm going to explore initiatives to get the community involved and more communicative.
  578. Mar 01 13:23:15 <denniscollective>      we're leaning how to do this stuff, and we're getting better at it.
  579. Mar 01 13:23:28 <Pistos>        I hope so.  Because as far as I'm concerned, the strength or weakness of communication will make or break your project.
  580. Mar 01 13:23:37 <madamephilosophe>      Pistos is right.
  581. Mar 01 13:23:37 <DeadSuperHero> Pistos, I agree.
  582. Mar 01 13:23:38 <denniscollective>      our project.
  583. Mar 01 13:23:40 <Pistos>        madamephilosophe: Now that's a great idea.
  584. Mar 01 13:23:41 <necromancer>   Pistos: +1
  585. Mar 01 13:24:14 <DeadSuperHero> Regardless, we're all going to need each other.
  586. Mar 01 13:24:28 *       JMSilla (~jmsilla@2.Red-2-138-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  587. Mar 01 13:24:33 <madamephilosophe>      Yes. but we have to design how not to get in each others way.
  588. Mar 01 13:24:38 <denniscollective>      look at wordpress
  589. Mar 01 13:24:44 <Pistos>        If I might add one more thing: Consider calling for discussion _before_ you work on stuff, _before_ you surprise people with new things.
  590. Mar 01 13:24:54 <madamephilosophe>      It's hard IRL to work as a team, there's an extra layer that is harder online.
  591. Mar 01 13:25:01 <denniscollective>      wordpress has wordpress.com and wordpress.org, wordpress.com funds people to work on wordpress full time
  592. Mar 01 13:25:13 <denniscollective>      and the organization benefits greatly
  593. Mar 01 13:25:16 <DeadSuperHero> But Wordpress.org is the steward.
  594. Mar 01 13:25:28 <DeadSuperHero> Wordpress.com cannot affect the codebase of wordpress.org.
  595. Mar 01 13:25:30 <madamephilosophe>      That's right. I'm not calling for anarchy.
  596. Mar 01 13:25:48 <diasp> we need some milestones https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/issues/milestones
  597. Mar 01 13:25:49 <madamephilosophe>      I'm just calling for representation for comunicating purposes.
  598. Mar 01 13:26:08 *       stultus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  599. Mar 01 13:26:20 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe, overly formal systems in open source software can be a huge burden.
  600. Mar 01 13:26:32 <DeadSuperHero> One such example of that was the OpenSolaris project.
  601. Mar 01 13:26:41 <DeadSuperHero> It literally had so many committees that nothing got done.
  602. Mar 01 13:26:44 <shmerl>        Hi.
  603. Mar 01 13:26:45 <DeadSuperHero> An extreme example, to be sure.
  604. Mar 01 13:26:56 <denniscollective>      so it's about finding the middle ground
  605. Mar 01 13:26:57 <DeadSuperHero> We DO want organization and community participation, there's no disputing that.
  606. Mar 01 13:26:58 <denniscollective>      hi shmerl
  607. Mar 01 13:27:01 <DeadSuperHero> Exactly, Dennis.
  608. Mar 01 13:27:04 <shmerl>        illumos/OpenIndiana fare much better now.
  609. Mar 01 13:27:09 <DeadSuperHero> Oh yes.
  610. Mar 01 13:27:11 <madamephilosophe>      I'm talkign about fostering communication with the community, I'm not discussing governance.
  611. Mar 01 13:27:30 <denniscollective>      aren't we fostering communication right now ;-)
  612. Mar 01 13:27:44 <TakinOver>     Yes, Illumos benefits because there's no Sun bureaucracy in its way.
  613. Mar 01 13:27:44 <madamephilosophe>      Yes, but its very opaque for many in the community/
  614. Mar 01 13:27:48 <str4ngerZ>     DeadSuperHero: check the PEP system in the python-community. very nice way to improve the system throught open discussion
  615. Mar 01 13:27:51 <denniscollective>      we're working on it, we're learning how, we're getting better at it, and things are largely improving
  616. Mar 01 13:27:52 <DeadSuperHero> Regardless, this kind of communication will improve in the future.
  617. Mar 01 13:28:12 <DeadSuperHero> But, to wildly misquote Hillary Clinton, it takes a village.
  618. Mar 01 13:28:36 <TakinOver>     Dennis: yes and no. Non-developers do not like IRC or mailing lists.
  619. Mar 01 13:28:38 <madamephilosophe>      All I'm suggesting is a signalling system or etiqutte or whatever so that people who want to pitch in can, without offending or causing gossip.
  620. Mar 01 13:29:00 <madamephilosophe>      The gossip has been really bad.
  621. Mar 01 13:29:01 <denniscollective>      str4ngerZ: though look at who commits to python, mostly quido.
  622. Mar 01 13:29:02 <shmerl>        Instead of IRC you can use XMPP chat rooms. Not too different, but more secure.
  623. Mar 01 13:29:12 *       proooova has quit (Quit: ciaociao)
  624. Mar 01 13:29:16 <vcuculo>       have to go guys
  625. Mar 01 13:29:18 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe: help combat the gossip?
  626. Mar 01 13:29:20 <vcuculo>       will keep in touch
  627. Mar 01 13:29:23 <denniscollective>      later vcuculo
  628. Mar 01 13:29:26 <denniscollective>      >3
  629. Mar 01 13:29:28 <denniscollective>      <3
  630. Mar 01 13:29:34 <shmerl>        But if someone doesn't like chats, they don't like any chats I guess.
  631. Mar 01 13:29:42 <madamephilosophe>      If you don't know what is actually going on, then it is hard to compbat gossip.
  632. Mar 01 13:29:56 *       vcuculo has quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
  633. Mar 01 13:30:02 <DeadSuperHero> We will do what we can to keep people up to date on what's going on.
  634. Mar 01 13:30:03 <madamephilosophe>      That is why I'm thinking representatives.
  635. Mar 01 13:30:12 <str4ngerZ>     denniscollective: not much guido in here: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/
  636. Mar 01 13:30:15 <madamephilosophe>      Or something like that.
  637. Mar 01 13:30:44 <TakinOver>     Not sure that representatives would help, Madame. Too many intermediaries also fogs up the message.
  638. Mar 01 13:31:03 <madamephilosophe>      If we can get the communication blpocks sorted, this community will be a steamroller.
  639. Mar 01 13:31:04 <denniscollective>      ask sean what's up
  640. Mar 01 13:31:08 <DeadSuperHero> We'll figure something out. :)
  641. Mar 01 13:31:37 <DeadSuperHero> Heck, I'll put something together just to handle a sort of "street team" of people that are in the know and can keep other people up to date, if I have to.
  642. Mar 01 13:31:45 <madamephilosophe>      That is what I'm saying.
  643. Mar 01 13:31:56 <DeadSuperHero> Sometimes it's difficult taking all the information that's out in the open and putting it into a comprehensive message that everyone can easily readily understand.
  644. Mar 01 13:31:56 <denniscollective>      :)
  645. Mar 01 13:31:58 <DeadSuperHero> So I'd be good for that.
  646. Mar 01 13:31:58 <torrancew>     denniscollective: one problem with the "Just ask us or sean" approach is that the coverage is limited to (more or less) US time zones
  647. Mar 01 13:31:59 <madamephilosophe>      ID high rep people who you and the community trusts.
  648. Mar 01 13:32:11 <denniscollective>      So its about time for me to pass out, because I feel really yucky.
  649. Mar 01 13:32:12 <DeadSuperHero> torrancew, I have an irregular sleep schedule.
  650. Mar 01 13:32:16 <DeadSuperHero> I'm literally up all the time
  651. Mar 01 13:32:17 <torrancew>     DeadSuperHero: don't we all?
  652. Mar 01 13:32:19 <DeadSuperHero> and only work on DIASPORA
  653. Mar 01 13:32:28 <TakinOver>     Let us also not overload Sean.
  654. Mar 01 13:32:33 <torrancew>     Right
  655. Mar 01 13:32:33 <madamephilosophe>      Is there more to say about fedeartion?
  656. Mar 01 13:32:43 <madamephilosophe>      Is there anything to say about guestimated beta release?
  657. Mar 01 13:32:44 *       Sorekz has quit ()
  658. Mar 01 13:32:50 <torrancew>     my main point is that 5 people in 2 time zones having to cater to the whole world's questions is a burden
  659. Mar 01 13:32:50 <DeadSuperHero> Max will probably be getting around to a blog post soon to talk about the more technical natures of the vbeast.
  660. Mar 01 13:33:01 <DeadSuperHero> *beast
  661. Mar 01 13:33:05 *       donnerdrummel has quit (Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org)
  662. Mar 01 13:33:06 <madamephilosophe>      vbeast?
  663. Mar 01 13:33:08 <shmerl>        There was a neat idea proposed in the Pistos's long post. About directing to the list of pods during registration.
  664. Mar 01 13:33:21 <shmerl>        Especially when some pod is filled up.
  665. Mar 01 13:33:22 <TakinOver>     Federation: just make sure whatever is done is clearly documented.
  666. Mar 01 13:33:27 <brent_bartlett>        haha, I thought of Visual Basic
  667. Mar 01 13:33:27 <madamephilosophe>      Shmerl that's a good idea.
  668. Mar 01 13:33:31 <denniscollective>      pod size isn't the only problem
  669. Mar 01 13:33:39 <DeadSuperHero> We currently do something like that with diasporafoundation.org, shmerl
  670. Mar 01 13:33:57 <shmerl>        The point is to do it when someone new comes to register.
  671. Mar 01 13:34:04 <shmerl>        They don't know about many sites yet.
  672. Mar 01 13:34:15 <shmerl>        They just found one pod first.
  673. Mar 01 13:34:17 <DeadSuperHero> Federation is still a new idea to a lot of people, too.
  674. Mar 01 13:34:17 <madamephilosophe>      Schmerl is right, get it before the seed plants.
  675. Mar 01 13:34:17 *       sarahmei_ (~sarahmei@mobile-166-205-138-144.mycingular.net) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  676. Mar 01 13:34:39 <TakinOver>     Diasp has a podlist with uptimes posted. That's where I direct people when I talk about Diaspora.
  677. Mar 01 13:35:15 <shmerl>        Imagine a case - someone heard about Diaspora, searched for it. and found joindiaspora.com
  678. Mar 01 13:35:28 <str4ngerZ>     shmerl: +1
  679. Mar 01 13:35:33 <shmerl>        They come to the site, and it says "pod is full"
  680. Mar 01 13:35:36 <madamephilosophe>      Is it significant in load balancing to have people geogrphincally near their home pod?
  681. Mar 01 13:35:51 <shmerl>        They have no idea what to do - in most cases they just wait
  682. Mar 01 13:36:03 <brent_bartlett>        shmerl: Yuck, that happened to me...2 or 3 times
  683. Mar 01 13:36:08 <denniscollective>      okay so… this is very difficult to talk to, but open source projects benefit greatly from having core teams work on the full time
  684. Mar 01 13:36:32 <brent_bartlett>        Even after I gave them the diasp.org URI, they still went to joindiaspora.com
  685. Mar 01 13:36:36 <denniscollective>      the hope is to one day have j/d to be able to fund that
  686. Mar 01 13:37:00 <shmerl>        Such users should be directed to the list of alternative pods right there.
  687. Mar 01 13:37:04 <denniscollective>      so it's a good thing for the diaspora ecosystem, if the core team has a big pod.
  688. Mar 01 13:37:19 <denniscollective>      that said, users should be free to move around the ecosystem
  689. Mar 01 13:37:29 <denniscollective>      which is the whole point, and we want to make that experience better
  690. Mar 01 13:37:31 <madamephilosophe>      I think jd should be the gateway, but there should be encouragement to spread out.
  691. Mar 01 13:37:45 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe: that's our plan
  692. Mar 01 13:37:58 *       sarahmei has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  693. Mar 01 13:38:00 <madamephilosophe>      So then we need more encouragement, don't we?
  694. Mar 01 13:38:01 *       sarahmei_ is now known as sarahmei
  695. Mar 01 13:38:09 <TakinOver>     What do you mean 'gateway'
  696. Mar 01 13:38:14 *       str4ngerZ has quit (Quit: bye)
  697. Mar 01 13:38:19 <denniscollective>      the network isn't ready for it
  698. Mar 01 13:38:23 <madamephilosophe>      I mean like it's their first contact to the D* network.
  699. Mar 01 13:38:27 <denniscollective>      we need to work federation out before we encourage that
  700. Mar 01 13:38:37 <shmerl>        It can be a gateway only when moving between pods will be very easy
  701. Mar 01 13:38:42 <denniscollective>      after federation is worked out
  702. Mar 01 13:38:42 <brent_bartlett>        madamephilosophe: Exactly
  703. Mar 01 13:38:50 <denniscollective>      we want to make single user pods really easy
  704. Mar 01 13:38:50 <madamephilosophe>      As they testdrive it and understand the notion of federation, because of wonderful newbie training, they will be motivated to move out to other pods.
  705. Mar 01 13:39:19 <denniscollective>      but with our current system it will be difficult to make that possible
  706. Mar 01 13:39:24 <shmerl>        But directing to the list of other pods when pod is full is a simple user friendliness.
  707. Mar 01 13:39:28 <madamephilosophe>      I think we are in agreement o the goal, but it's a question of process, right?
  708. Mar 01 13:39:35 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe: yes.
  709. Mar 01 13:39:53 <madamephilosophe>      So it seems we've gone a little circular.
  710. Mar 01 13:39:53 <denniscollective>      so I'm sick, I'm join to bed, any (brief) last questions?
  711. Mar 01 13:40:00 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe:  <3
  712. Mar 01 13:40:15 <madamephilosophe>      guestimate beta release?
  713. Mar 01 13:40:18 <madamephilosophe>      :)
  714. Mar 01 13:40:24 <madamephilosophe>      <3
  715. Mar 01 13:40:32 <denniscollective>      we all want to see diaspora succeed, and we are working together to learn how to make that possible. we work better together :)
  716. Mar 01 13:40:37 <TakinOver>     Deadsuperhero: you gonna post a transcript?
  717. Mar 01 13:40:39 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe: 3-6 months, I hope
  718. Mar 01 13:40:55 <DeadSuperHero> TakinOver, that's the plan!
  719. Mar 01 13:41:02 <madamephilosophe>      What can we do in the community to help take logs out of the road?
  720. Mar 01 13:41:48 <DeadSuperHero> Communicate with us, above all else. Use the mailing lists, use whatever you need to get a hold of the team, contributors, and the community.
  721. Mar 01 13:41:53 <DeadSuperHero> And find awesome ways to collaborate.
  722. Mar 01 13:42:05 <DeadSuperHero> We will help you, because we always have needs to fill, and you're more than happy to help.
  723. Mar 01 13:42:08 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe: I agree that we need to be able to answer that question better
  724. Mar 01 13:42:18 <TakinOver>     Dennis, you don't have to answer today, but maybe make us aware of pressing issues sooner, including funding.
  725. Mar 01 13:42:25 <madamephilosophe>      But we need to have assurances that someone will come to the surface with good info.
  726. Mar 01 13:42:50 <DeadSuperHero> Agreed.
  727. Mar 01 13:42:52 <madamephilosophe>      I don't want to beat a dead horse.
  728. Mar 01 13:43:01 <madamephilosophe>      of course of course.
  729. Mar 01 13:43:14 <denniscollective>      madamephilosophe, seriously feel free to email sean@joindiaspora.com when your not sure, I'm sure he doesn't mind
  730. Mar 01 13:43:22 <denniscollective>      then you can be your own representative and get the info out
  731. Mar 01 13:43:32 <DeadSuperHero> I really don't.
  732. Mar 01 13:43:32 <TakinOver>     We all know it takes money to keep servers running and devs fed. Don't be afraid to say it.
  733. Mar 01 13:43:36 <DeadSuperHero> I literally have nothing to do but work.
  734. Mar 01 13:43:36 *       johpunk (~johpunk@unaffiliated/johpunk) has joined #diaspora-meeting
  735. Mar 01 13:43:37 <madamephilosophe>      But we need a network of folks.
  736. Mar 01 13:43:42 <DeadSuperHero> I'll put together a network.
  737. Mar 01 13:43:48 <madamephilosophe>      that's great.
  738. Mar 01 13:43:54 <denniscollective>      If anyone feels comfortable speaking in english, maybe we could Skype some time or something, I don't know
  739. Mar 01 13:43:54 <DeadSuperHero> Keep people in the loop.
  740. Mar 01 13:43:56 <denniscollective>      :)
  741. Mar 01 13:43:58 <DeadSuperHero> :)
  742. Mar 01 13:44:00 <DeadSuperHero> Yay!
  743. Mar 01 13:44:06 <madamephilosophe>      I know a lot of people who would want to help.
  744. Mar 01 13:44:30 <madamephilosophe>      Or even a forum so we can deal with the time zones.
  745. Mar 01 13:44:40 <DeadSuperHero> Possibly. We'll think on it.
  746. Mar 01 13:44:40 <brent_bartlett>        Don't we have a forum?
  747. Mar 01 13:44:43 <madamephilosophe>      Just a balloon.
  748. Mar 01 13:44:44 <DeadSuperHero> Not officially.
  749. Mar 01 13:44:56 <DeadSuperHero> Dennis, we good? Everyone?
  750. Mar 01 13:45:10 <denniscollective>      <333
  751. Mar 01 13:45:12 <DeadSuperHero> <333333
  752. Mar 01 13:45:16 <madamephilosophe>      Thanks dennis!
  753. Mar 01 13:45:22 <denniscollective>      thanks madamephilosophe!
  754. Mar 01 13:45:26 <denniscollective>      thanks everyone!
  755. Mar 01 13:45:27 <DeadSuperHero> Okay, thanks everyone for coming out today and participating in this discussion.
  756. Mar 01 13:45:28 <DenSchub>      :)
  757. Mar 01 13:45:29 <shmerl>        Thanks
  758. Mar 01 13:45:33 <madamephilosophe>      I hope you feel better soon. As with all the team who are down and out.
  759. Mar 01 13:45:33 <DenSchub>      Get well soon everybody
  760. Mar 01 13:45:34 <brent_bartlett>        thanks
  761. Mar 01 13:45:34 <DeadSuperHero> We hope to have more like this.
  762. Mar 01 13:45:36 <raven24>       :) <3
  763. Mar 01 13:45:39 *       denniscollective has quit (Quit: <3333333)
  764. Mar 01 13:45:43 <brent_bartlett>        bye
  765. Mar 01 13:45:43 <stwf>  bye all, enjoyed lurking!
  766. Mar 01 13:45:46 <DeadSuperHero> Logs going up in 15 minutes!
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