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  1. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:00:08] <Monkeh>        Beep.
  2. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:00:33] <idl0r> !time
  3. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:00:33] <willikins>     idl0r: Europe - Berlin - Mon May 10 22:00 CEST
  4. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:00:37] <hwoarang>      lets go
  5. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:01:11] <hwoarang>      roll call
  6. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:01:13]          * hwoarang here
  7. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:01:17] <a3li>  .
  8. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:01:20] <Mousee>        moo
  9. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:01:31] <fekepp>        everyone?;)
  10. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:01:32] <quantumsummers>        heyo
  11. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:01:37] <idl0r> here
  12. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:01:39] <ali_bush>      just leaving :|
  13. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:01:43] <opcode0x90>    !time
  14. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:01:43] <willikins>     opcode0x90: use time set <Continent/City> to set your timezone.
  15. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:02:12]          * tove too
  16. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:02:25] <ni1s_eee>      oi
  17. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:02:32] <amoskvin>      hello
  18. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:02:39] <Monkeh>        Decent turnout.
  19. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:02:44] <hwoarang>      indeed
  20. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:03:33] <hwoarang>      before we go into wiki technical stuff
  21. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:03:36] Quit    yporti has left this server (Disconnected by services).
  22. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:03:40] Nick    yporti_ is now known as yporti.
  23. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:04:04] <spatz> here
  24. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:04:05] Join    yporti_ has joined this channel (~yporti@hyadesinc/fieldmarshal/yporti).
  25. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:04:11] <hwoarang>      we need to cooperate with the infra ppl and decide how to handle the infra services
  26. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:04:40] <hwoarang>      robbat2 stated a couple of days ago: [20:04:54] <robbat2> hwoarang, i had asked for details of what you needed, and the initial mediawiki config, and instructions to add it with webapp-config
  27. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:05:17] Quit    yporti has left this server (Quit: Leaving).
  28. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:05:19] <hwoarang>      i don't know if this is possible, but I assume that we can work on a3li wiki page and then sent the configs file to robbat right?
  29. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:05:28] Quit    yporti_ has left this server (Remote host closed the connection).
  30. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:05:38] <darkside_>     basically, we let cfengine install mediawiki, then webapp-config "install" it by hand and hopefully you have a git repo with configuration files
  31. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:05:48] <quantumsummers>        +1
  32. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:05:54] <hwoarang>      work directly on infra machine?
  33. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:05:58] <Mousee>        hwoarang: Minus a few minor config changes, ya
  34. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:06:08] <hwoarang>      i dont mind
  35. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:06:12] <darkside_>     no, you won't have access to the infra machine
  36. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:06:20] <a3li>  maybe we should start with basic questions rather than implementation details.
  37. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:06:22] <hwoarang>      i mean , work directly on wiki located on infra machine
  38. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:06:34] <hwoarang>      a3li: please proceed
  39. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:06:36] <a3li>  we still have no policy drafts, no mission statement.
  40. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:06:48] <a3li>  no timeline.
  41. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:06:54] <Mousee>        we've a "draft missions statement", that's about it
  42. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:06:57] <Mousee>        *mission
  43. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:07:03] <hwoarang>      we got out of timeline since Ben left
  44. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:08:03] <hwoarang>      the mission plan is to host an official wiki on our infra machine
  45. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:08:12] <a3li>  -vvvvv
  46. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:08:16] <hwoarang>      that was the original plan
  47. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:08:16] <a3li>  "an official wiki"
  48. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:08:20] <a3li>  what contents does it have?
  49. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:08:25] <a3li>  how does it differ from g-w.com?
  50. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:08:33] <quantumsummers>        there is the issue of who gets write access. qa on the articles, who are the editors?
  51. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:08:41]          * hwoarang taking notes
  52. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:08:52] <Mousee>        I'll be happy to write up some draft policies if we need a push in that direction (rather than assigning it to someone who may not be interested).
  53. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:08:54]          * quantumsummers would like to think of this as a collab space for docs in progress
  54. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:09:05] <Mousee>        Just need others to review/critique it etc
  55. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:09:12] <quantumsummers>        then the wiki doc gets guildexml-ified
  56. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:09:44] <hwoarang>      quantumsummers: that was a huge conversion on month ago
  57. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:09:55] <hwoarang>      if we need to write everything on guide-xml
  58. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:10:01] <quantumsummers>        I would be happy to assist with writing the converter using mwlib
  59. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:10:02] <hwoarang>      *guild
  60. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:10:29] <hwoarang>      excellent
  61. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:10:56] <spatz> there's no intention to convert everything to guidexml, the wiki is supposed to be separate from official documentation
  62. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:11:13] <hwoarang>      like expand it or cover different aspects
  63. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:11:15] <hwoarang>      ?
  64. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:11:28] <Mousee>        probably a bit of both
  65. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:11:37] <quantumsummers>        I have most of that in place anyway ... the converter that ius
  66. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:11:39] <quantumsummers>        *is
  67. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:11:57] <spatz> both, just look at the content of g-w.com. not everything should be official documentation, and there's no way it can be maintained properly as official documentation
  68. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:11:58] <hwoarang>      i dont mind converting articles to docs
  69. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:12:05] <spatz> that's what the wiki is for
  70. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:12:19] <hwoarang>      spatz: no but it would be nice if we could convert a nice article to doc
  71. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:12:28] <spatz> of course, I'll never be against that
  72. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:12:35] <quantumsummers>        spatz: I agree, not everything. However, important docs can be worked up in the wiki, then with docs team, migrated into official'
  73. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:12:42] <hwoarang>      a3li: answering your question, wiki could be a nice place for devs+users to cooperate
  74. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:12:54] <spatz> nod
  75. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:12:58] <hwoarang>      using bugs+cvs for docs like we do now is not an option
  76. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:12:59] Join    yporti has joined this channel (~yporti@hyadesinc/fieldmarshal/yporti).
  77. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:13:11] <a3li>  cooperate on what?
  78. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:13:14] <quantumsummers>        even with beacon, its not easy
  79. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:13:16] <hwoarang>      docs
  80. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:13:21] <hwoarang>      a3li: writting documentation
  81. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:13:45] <hwoarang>      until now, if a user wanted to write a document, we had to open a bug, attach the diff file, and wait for docs team to merge it
  82. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:14:01] <hwoarang>      wiki will make that a lot easier
  83. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:14:21] <hwoarang>      even for us
  84. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:15:18] <spatz> another use would be for devs: writing agendas for meetings, writing summaries, drafting news items etc.
  85. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:15:18] <hwoarang>      because it is a lot more easier to write articles based on wiki formats rather than guildexml
  86. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:15:32] <quantumsummers>        spatz: yes, that is a good use
  87. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:15:43] <Poly-C_atwork> And its easier to keep documenttion up to date that way
  88. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:15:48] <hwoarang>      nod
  89. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:16:04] <Mousee>        hwoarang: exactly. One of the reasons I think most people are afraid to offer additions/fixes.
  90. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:16:13] <quantumsummers>        esp if we have a little python to convert to xml, easy updates
  91. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:16:30] <hwoarang>      right
  92. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:16:49] <quantumsummers>        now, has anyone here used beaconeditor?
  93. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:16:51] <hwoarang>      of course we can use wiki in both ways, like writing base documentation and some cool tips and tricks etc
  94. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:17:20] <quantumsummers>        its a possibility we could use that as the wysiwy* editor in there
  95. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:17:50] <quantumsummers>        perhaps that is a point for a later discussion
  96. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:17:57] <a3li>  indeed
  97. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:17:59] <hwoarang>      i guess
  98. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:18:09] <quantumsummers>        tabled
  99. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:18:16] <a3li>  so we collaborate with users on documentation and draft meeting agendas and news items.
  100. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:18:19] <a3li>  what else?
  101. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:18:35] <quantumsummers>        there is an events plugin, so meeting planning
  102. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:18:50] <quantumsummers>        calendar in general, conferences
  103. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:18:57] <a3li>  so we collaborate with users on documentation and plan and manage meetings and draft news items.
  104. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:19:12] <quantumsummers>        I like what you are doing there
  105. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:19:16] <hwoarang>      :p
  106. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:19:16] <Mousee>        lol
  107. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:19:29] <hwoarang>      i dont think we should make it too complicated
  108. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:19:32] <quantumsummers>        what else is there to do with a wiki?
  109. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:20:00] <Mousee>        Determining and setting up templates for one.
  110. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:20:03] <a3li>  hwoarang: KISS it is. but we shouldn't start builidng that wiki recklessly and with no clue what we /want/
  111. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:20:15] <hwoarang>      a3li: yes
  112. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:20:28] <fekepp>        think about more special cases too, like a special combination of packages + configuration. that's maybe not general enough for an official doc page, even if it is good documented, so the wiki would be a good place
  113. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:20:41] <a3li>  it is proven that extra time spent in the analysis and planning phases of a project result in less time spent in implementation.
  114. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:20:50] Join    dansan has joined this channel (~daniel@ppp-70-242-114-8.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net).
  115. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:20:54] <hwoarang>      of course
  116. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:21:13] <quantumsummers>        in that line fekepp, it might be nice to document "workarounds" perhaps
  117. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:21:31] <hwoarang>      dont we have forums for that?
  118. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:21:37] <quantumsummers>        yes
  119. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:21:45] <hwoarang>      and why use workarounds for ebuilds. just fix them
  120. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:21:45] <hwoarang>      :p
  121. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:21:47] <quantumsummers>        that can be a morass at times
  122. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:21:58] <quantumsummers>        time dependent, as they will be invalidated by bug fixes
  123. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:22:11] <Mousee>        Perhaps workarounds as in "Things that haven't been fixed by upstream yet"? I dunno
  124. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:22:11] <dansan>        Are we not supposed to use the word HOWTO in article titles? I'm not seeing other articles that do & I'm writing one.
  125. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:22:44] <quantumsummers>        that is sometimes taken as a category
  126. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:23:00] <dansan>        ok
  127. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:23:14] <quantumsummers>        a3li: please restate your collection for us
  128. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:23:43] <a3li>  so we collaborate with users on documentation and plan and manage meetings and draft news items.
  129. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:23:50] <a3li>  not sure what to do with the "workarounds"
  130. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:23:57] <quantumsummers>        axe it
  131. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:24:15] <quantumsummers>        needs better formalization
  132. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:24:20] <Mousee>        indeed
  133. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:24:24] Join    rafaelmartins has joined this channel (~rafael@unaffiliated/rafaelmartins/x-162351).
  134. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:24:35] <hwoarang>      i cant think of anything else
  135. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:24:55] <quantumsummers>        then :w
  136. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:24:57] <Mousee>        Well again, what about templates that are to be used?
  137. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:24:59] <fekepp>        if there is somebody who has time to write some qualified docu about something that is worth enough to write about it is good. connected to perhaps a lot of those documents the question of wiki-structure becomes more important, e.g. categories, index, etc.
  138. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:25:18] <Mousee>        How are we going to determine which ones to add and which ones not to bother with?
  139. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:25:35] <a3li>  'templates'?
  140. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:25:55] <fekepp>        templates are predefined formats for some kind of text
  141. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:26:05] <Mousee>        Templates as in {user|date|comment} and such. Give me a sec and I'll grab an example.
  142. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:26:16] <quantumsummers>        ok. so we need a list of needed articles and their hierarchy.
  143. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:26:24] <Mousee>        http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Index:Templates
  144. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:26:26] <hwoarang>      this is way too hard to define it
  145. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:26:31] <Mousee>        templates like that
  146. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:26:46] <fekepp>        quantumsummers: at least about needed categories, and of course important articles
  147. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:26:54] <quantumsummers>        yes, we need that
  148. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:27:39] <a3li>  categories and structure. let's talk about that.
  149. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:28:02] <quantumsummers>        we could base it off of the existing doc structure http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/ #2
  150. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:28:13] <quantumsummers>        expanded http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/list.xml
  151. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:28:43] <quantumsummers>        perhaps off of system profiles
  152. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:28:48] <hwoarang>      i like that stracture
  153. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:29:07] <a3li>  thing is that wikis are not quite made for taxonomies
  154. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:29:38] <a3li>  we basically can do one level of proper subclassing with namespaces
  155. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:29:53] <quantumsummers>        that is all? only 2 levels?
  156. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:30:21] <fekepp>        as a wiki evolves also the structure evolves, but a wise choosen structure at the start which can be extended later could be useful
  157. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:30:51] <a3li>  quantumsummers: we can fake a hierarchy. but it'd still be faked.
  158. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:31:02] <quantumsummers>        ok.
  159. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:32:03] <quantumsummers>        does media wiki support some form of tagging?
  160. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:32:11] <amoskvin>      It has categories
  161. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:32:29] <a3li>  categories work. there's other tagging solutions as well.
  162. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:32:36] <fekepp>        in my opinion the structure at the beginning should cover the most general parts of possible articles, it should be not too special (extended later) to get not lost
  163. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:32:41] <a3li>  (including a full-blown semantic web extension)
  164. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:32:43] <Mousee>        Ya categories are essentially "tags". You can have several types of categories listed for a single page.
  165. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:33:09] <fekepp>        beside categories there are indexes too
  166. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:33:27] <hwoarang>      cool
  167. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:33:36] <quantumsummers>        the index pages should be used extensively
  168. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:35:04] <hwoarang>      ok
  169. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:35:12] <hwoarang>      anything else?
  170. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:36:00] <amoskvin>      how would pages describing multiple package versions be dealt with?
  171. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:36:23] <amoskvin>      as in, when would information for old packages be cleaned off?
  172. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:36:38] <a3li>  when the packages are no longer in the tree
  173. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:36:41] <amoskvin>      I think it's a major problem with gentoo-wiki.com
  174. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:36:43] <hwoarang>      i guess this is up to the editor to keep it up to date
  175. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:36:54] Join    slep has joined this channel (~slep@195.13.166.253).
  176. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:37:05] <a3li>  so we've slipped into policies
  177. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:37:12] <hwoarang>      silently
  178. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:37:23] <hwoarang>      http://gentoowiki.a3li.li/index.php?title=Gentoo_Wiki:Policies
  179. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:37:28] <amoskvin>      sorry if we're not there yet
  180. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:37:46] <a3li>  it's fine. there was no agenda.
  181. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:37:49] <ni1s_eee>      on g-w.com its often killed when it leaves the tree and diffrent version are talked bout under diffrent headings
  182. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:38:27] <hwoarang>      sounds about right. I wonder if we should delete the articles or just mark them as "old" "depcreated" or what
  183. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:38:37] <hwoarang>      some ppl might have very old systems
  184. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:39:55] <amoskvin>      as an example, I recently used the nouveau guide (a fairly new article). In one page, it tries to describe three versions of how to install nouveau, all intermingled together
  185. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:39:55] <fekepp>        one thought to the lines above: keep in mind that a wiki much more dynamic than static docu, it evolves. there should be a framework of guidelines which but everything in the right direction but do not make it difficult for ppl to write (/me makes a coffee now)
  186. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:40:18] <amoskvin>      It's extermely difficult to follow
  187. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:40:28] <Mousee>        We could always duplicate a page and throw it into an "archive" of sorts. You'd still have to create a policy on when to flush the archives out though. It'd add a bit of extra work.
  188. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:40:33] Join    lk4d4 has joined this channel (~lk4d4@mail.gentoo.ru).
  189. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:41:08] <a3li>  the word 'duplicated' made me twitch
  190. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:41:27] <a3li>  there's the revision history. people needing old info can see old revisions
  191. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:41:31] <ni1s_eee>      amoskvin, sometimes it takes awhile for an article to find its "flow", especially if its an article on X stuff for some reason
  192. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:41:33] <Mousee>        it's a copy of the document as it was, before the old version was removed
  193. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:41:52] <Mousee>        a3li: That's what I would say. Makes things much easier.
  194. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:41:53] <hwoarang>      a3li: +1
  195. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:42:58] <hwoarang>      When are articles locked down?
  196. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:43:01] <ni1s_eee>      a page with with really old stuff could just have a {{Warning}} at top
  197. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:43:02] <amoskvin>      maybe add links, like "This article is for kernel 2.6.XX. For this kernel version 2.6.OLD, use this revision"
  198. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:44:25] <quantumsummers>        at some point, it will need an "unmaintained" mark
  199. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:44:42] <hwoarang>      indeed
  200. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:44:43] <ni1s_eee>      i've found that its easier to seperate bits after portage seperation of stable and testing, and not specific versioning
  201. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:44:57] Quit    opcode0x90 has left this server (Quit: Leaving).
  202. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:46:22] <hwoarang>      deprecate or mark something as unmaintained it is more preferable than deleting an article
  203. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:46:30] <fekepp>        a3li: if there is a change for old versions you are not able to edit the historic version. i would suggest to write some hints at the end of an article if there are only small differences, or use an own wiki page only for the old version if there are big differences. in that case it must be explicited marked as old and maybe linked to the new version article. something like unmaintained of course possible too
  204. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:46:48] <amoskvin>      ni1s_eee: well if you take the nouveau page, which would be the one for testing? With kernel 2.6.33 or 34_rc? It's not really thar clear-cut infortuantely
  205. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:46:58] <amoskvin>      *unfortunately
  206. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:47:44] <a3li>  fekepp: true, but old stuff shouldn't change. if it is old enough to be no longer included in the latest revision, there should be nothing to change.
  207. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:48:29] <fekepp>        yes of course, i would suggest to keep only text about in-tree-versions
  208. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:48:36] <ni1s_eee>      amoskvin, yeah thats not really possible for that article, as nouveau is so new,
  209. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:48:42] <hwoarang>      fekepp: yes
  210. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:49:16] <a3li>  22:42 <@hwoarang> When are articles locked down?
  211. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:49:18] <a3li>  ^
  212. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:49:21] <a3li>  edit wars.
  213. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:49:36] <hwoarang>      heh
  214. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:49:50] <a3li>  or teams request pages to be locked (x11 if my memory serves)
  215. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:50:09] <hwoarang>      I agree
  216. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:50:17] <Mousee>        ya that makes sense
  217. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:50:17] Part    lk4d4 has left this channel.
  218. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:50:28] <fekepp>        which leads to the question: who has the right to moderate, and how are they become moderators (and maybe somehow "controlled")
  219. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:50:30] <hwoarang>      pages which describe core packages should be handled with care and restrict edit on them
  220. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:50:44] <hwoarang>      i was thinking about a core team actually
  221. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:51:14] <hwoarang>      consisted from 4-5 people. Like QA team or something
  222. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:51:39] <hwoarang>      like you do have modearators and super moderators
  223. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:52:24] Away    You are now marked as being away.
  224. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:52:25] Away    You are no longer marked as being away.
  225. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:53:44] <hwoarang>      this team will try to coordinate editors<->moderators<->gentoo projects
  226. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:55:03] Quit    slep has left this server (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
  227. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:55:04] <winterheart>   it is admins and bureaucrats technically
  228. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:55:13] <fekepp>        by the way, one unrelated question: what will be the url? wiki.gentoo.org?
  229. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:55:21] <quantumsummers>        likely
  230. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:55:33] Join    slep has joined this channel (~slep@195.13.166.253).
  231. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:55:46] <fekepp>        would be most intuitive;)
  232. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:56:04] <quantumsummers>        indeed
  233. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:56:55] <winterheart>   how about i18n then?
  234. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:57:07] <winterheart>   fr.wiki.gentoo.org?
  235. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:57:21] <hwoarang>      or wiki.gentoo.org/fr
  236. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:57:25] <quantumsummers>        or wiki.gentoo.org/LANG
  237. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:57:31] <quantumsummers>        latency
  238. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:57:38] <quantumsummers>        ;0
  239. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:57:40] Quit    crimer has left this server (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
  240. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:57:41] <hwoarang>      i dont know how wiki handles i18n
  241. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:57:55] <a3li>  not.
  242. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:58:01] <winterheart>   then there must be  wiki.gentoo.org/en first
  243. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:58:10] <a3li>  besides having a way to link to other languages.
  244. [Monday 10 May 2010] [16:58:37] <hwoarang>      i see
  245. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:00:22] <hwoarang>      so 1 hour passed, should we stop here, update the wiki page and start working on several stuff from now on?
  246. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:00:34] <fekepp>        something for the ppl who go into the technical details. but more abstract: there should be a multi-lang wiki?
  247. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:00:43] <fekepp>        hehe
  248. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:01:07] <a3li>  (the project is lead-less atm, too)
  249. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:01:08] <ni1s_eee>      oh, the artsy stuff, design and layout, templete style and such
  250. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:01:10] <a3li>  (just btw)
  251. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:02:07] <Mousee>        fekepp: I think that's what we were talking about. Looking on mediawiki's site it seems they work as "wiki.gentoo.org/en", etc
  252. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:03:11] <Mousee>        We could probably setup a "dropdown" list of sorts on the main (english) page so you could set your language that way, first, and then later set it in your profile. But I haven't ever dealth with mediawiki's i18n setup before, so not sure if that would work well even.
  253. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:03:24] <fekepp>        for me it sounds good, english should be default, but wikis for other languages should be configured as soon as there are user willed to write in that language
  254. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:03:34] <fekepp>        and pages cross-linked
  255. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:04:09] <Mousee>        aye cross-linking would work like "{{Languages|MediaWiki/fr}})"
  256. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:04:25] <Mousee>        which would redirect to something such as:  http://fr.wiki.gentoo.org
  257. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:04:43] <fekepp>        yes... i know it from wikipedia, so it should work somehow;)
  258. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:04:46] <a3li>  nack on the linking
  259. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:04:56] <a3li>  [[fr:Foo]]
  260. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:05:03] <winterheart>   interwiki
  261. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:05:04] <a3li>  is what is built-in in mw
  262. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:05:20] <Mousee>        a3li: ya that's the template I just mentioned :P
  263. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:05:31] <a3li>  that is not a template.
  264. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:05:43] <amoskvin>      it goes in the sidebar
  265. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:05:53] <Mousee>        [[fr:Foo]] is calling a template
  266. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:06:03] <ni1s_eee>      Mousee, link
  267. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:06:09] <Mousee>        http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Languages
  268. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:06:45] <a3li>  not what we're talking about
  269. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:07:29] <Mousee>        aye it's not the same template you're referring to
  270. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:09:58] <hwoarang>      small notice: I have to get back to the army camp now but I will read the backlog later
  271. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:10:35] <quantumsummers>        hwoarang cheers
  272. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:11:14] <hwoarang>      well we do have to talk about more stuff but I dont know how do you want to handle it
  273. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:11:36] <hwoarang>      like start working on what we discussed or first define a clear design plan and then move forward
  274. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:12:01] Join    crimer has joined this channel (~crimer@p54A0CBBE.dip.t-dialin.net).
  275. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:16:14] <quantumsummers>        the concept of "portals" are interesting
  276. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:16:18] Quit    Quantum_ has left this server (Quit: Leaving).
  277. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:17:08] <quantumsummers>        we could have system, desktop, server, multimedia, security, hardware portals
  278. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:18:46] <ni1s_eee>      yes, I would rather have that than ToC templates
  279. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:19:28] <quantumsummers>        as a general, high-level organization, how does that above sound?
  280. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:19:35] <quantumsummers>        need more, less, etc?
  281. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:19:56] <quantumsummers>        perhaps system, should be toolchain && system set
  282. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:20:33] <quantumsummers>        that can be further dissected for hardened & non-hardened
  283. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:20:34] <Mousee>        How are specific architectures handled then, in such a portal layout?
  284. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:21:11] <quantumsummers>        each portal has outlines for the arches
  285. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:21:26] Quit    slep has left this server (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
  286. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:21:46] <quantumsummers>        profiles still seem to me a good way of organizing thing as well
  287. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:21:59] <ni1s_eee>      another idea is to have them per purpose or endeavour, i.e system, web server, spam bot, etc.
  288. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:22:29] <winterheart>   Portals is maybe some replacement for existing projects on g.org
  289. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:22:48] <quantumsummers>        seems too large a set, to use a per-endeavor schema
  290. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:23:28] <quantumsummers>        the various projects could have portals, yes. or we have a portal for all projects, which are then represented in outlines
  291. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:24:57] <ni1s_eee>      perhaps, i suspect there's going to be overlaps all over the place regardless of the portal 'mode'
  292. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:26:42] <Mousee>        quantumsummers: the later idea sounds more "user friendly", in terms of navigation, at least
  293. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:29:31] Quit    pbogdan has left this server (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0).
  294. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:30:58] <quantumsummers>        seems reasonable
  295. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:31:56] <quantumsummers>        at a point, we just have articles afterall, and then ways of getting to them. if we make a nice set of indices, and a good seach iface we'll be in business
  296. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:33:35] <ni1s_eee>      that and a proper url
  297. [Monday 10 May 2010] [17:33:56] <Mousee>        heh indeed
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