Roundtable summary/Kryten's opinions

Dec 23rd, 2011
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  1. [23:54] KrytenKoro Chitalian
  2. [23:54] KrytenKoro I need an actual summary
  3. [23:54] Chitalian ._.
  4. [23:55] Chitalian Okay, well, the staff issue would go to a forum.
  5. [23:55] Chitalian For merging article content, we agreed that it would be "best from each side". This would involve the dividing of tasks, in what will basically be another audit.
  6. [23:56] Chitalian This one will be much more intensive, since we actually have to judge each wiki's content for ourselves.
  7. [23:56] Chitalian However, due to the increase in manpower, it shouldn't have to take us half a year like the first audit did.
  8. [23:57] Chitalian We also discussed a Music project.
  9. [23:57] Chitalian In which we'd try to flesh out the amount of music files we have, since The Keyhole has access to all of the audio files.
  10. [23:57] Chitalian Revamping of the music page would be ideal, as well as fleshing out the pages of the main recurring themes in the series.
  11. [23:58] Chitalian As for tabbed subpages, there were no objections.
  12. [23:59] Chitalian Also, the merging of ability articles came up.
  13. [23:59] Chitalian Apparently The Keyhole has ability articles that we don't, so those would be carried over.
  14. [00:00] Chitalian And the idea of compressing all of the armor/accessory pages into one page, while still retaining all the info.
  15. [00:00] maggosh Yes.
  16. [00:00] Chitalian Sorting the pages like "List of Armor in Kingdom Hearts".
  17. [00:00] Chitalian I think that's all for the merging article content ._.
  18. [00:01] Chitalian Images and renders
  19. [00:01] Chitalian Continue hosting talk bubble pictures off-site
  20. [00:02] Chitalian Keeping of all of DE's renders, possibly putting the action renders on boss pages/walkthrough pages/ability sections
  21. [00:02] Auror Well, this is all very confusing.
  22. [00:02] LegoAlchristmas Don't interrupt.
  23. [00:02] Chitalian DE's renders replace the main infobox image if it's of terrible quality.
  24. [00:03] Chitalian Meanwhile, we need to try to find better renders if they are unsatisfactory.
  25. [00:03] Chitalian Probably continue using ErryK's .gifs, as they're of better quality
  26. [00:04] Chitalian That was about it for images...
  27. [00:04] =-= Infinity|Dinner is now known as Infinitimas
  28. [00:04] Chitalian Policies
  29. [00:04] Chitalian Have a more relaxed atmosphere, for one.
  30. [00:05] KrytenKoro we have access to all the audio files as well
  31. [00:05] Chitalian Possible allotment of 1 or 2 points of REASONABLE SPECULATION with enough evidence to back it up in the Trivia.
  32. [00:05] KrytenKoro we don't add them in full because that would be ILLEGAL
  33. [00:05] KrytenKoro why was anyone even suggesting that?
  34. [00:05] Chitalian They have 50 second previews, apparently.
  35. [00:05] Chitalian I wasn't that involved in that whole music thing
  36. [00:05] KrytenKoro how does the Keyhole have ability articles we don't?
  37. [00:05] KrytenKoro we have a page for each ability.
  38. [00:05] KrytenKoro were there examples?
  39. [00:05] Chitalian I don't know, but apparently they do, according to Sox.
  40. [00:06] KrytenKoro "And the idea of compressing all of the armor/accessory pages into one page, while still retaining all the info." - not on the khwiki, I hope
  41. [00:06] KrytenKoro that's for the keyhole, right?
  42. [00:06] Chitalian Sox linked me to OATHOBLIVION's contribution page.
  43. [00:06] Chitalian Told me to go down the page, apparently we don't have those articlesBut we really do.
  44. [00:06] KrytenKoro yeah, I'm looking through it
  45. [00:06] Chitalian Kryten, I'd say putting all that into one page isn't a bad idea.
  46. [00:06] KrytenKoro we have all of those
  47. [00:07] KrytenKoro, we're not doing that
  48. [00:07] Chitalian We're not losing any information.
  49. [00:07] KrytenKoro there's no point in merging it all
  50. [00:07] KrytenKoro into one huge table?
  51. [00:07] KrytenKoro have you seen the infoboxes?
  52. [00:07] Chitalian True, true...
  53. [00:07] KrytenKoro it would be insane to try and merge those into a single table, it wouldn't fit
  54. [00:07] KrytenKoro even in monobook
  55. [00:07] Chitalian Again, there's a follow-up meeting.
  56. [00:07] KrytenKoro and our whole policy is to make pages for EVERYTHING in the KH universe
  57. [00:08] KrytenKoro anyway
  58. [00:08] KrytenKoro in OathOblivion's last 500 edits, I don't see anything we don't already have
  59. [00:08] KrytenKoro soooo...yeah
  60. [00:08] Chitalian Well, anyway.
  61. [00:08] KrytenKoro "have a more relaxed atmosphere"
  62. [00:09] KrytenKoro has anyone actually given a situation by what the hell they mean by this?
  63. [00:09] Chitalian Well, if I may.
  64. [00:09] KrytenKoro go ahead
  65. [00:09] Chitalian It was suggested that Talk pages be allowed for some discussion of what the page is. It doesn't have to be limited to forums.
  66. [00:10] Chitalian Basically, allowing for clarification of the story or what the article illustrates
  67. [00:10] KrytenKoro, the suggestion is to ignore basic policies that even wikipedia has, is that it?
  68. [00:10] Chitalian but not allowing "OMG GUYS THIS KEYBLADE IS THE BEST ONE IN THE GAME"
  69. [00:10] KrytenKoro THAT's what they mean by a "more relaxed atmosphere"?
  70. [00:10] Chitalian That was a piece of it.
  71. [00:10] Chitalian There's more to it.
  72. [00:10] KrytenKoro mkay
  73. [00:10] Chitalian Not that I remember >.>
  74. [00:11] Chitalian They think .net is stricter than it is
  75. [00:11] Chitalian But, what else....
  76. [00:11] KrytenKoro yeah...I can remember tons of incidents from back during while I was on wikia
  77. [00:11] KrytenKoro on khwiki...the only thing I can remember is the Heartless Manufactory...which was to STOP PEOPLE ATTACKING EACH OTHER
  78. [00:12] KrytenKoro if people want a more relaxed atmosphere, they need to give examples of actual policies or behaviors that are obstructive
  79. [00:12] Chitalian Relaxing speculation slightly was also discussed. This is sort of relating to that whole "lock-on" incident the other week.
  80. [00:12] KrytenKoro you can't just say "be relaxed"
  81. [00:12] KrytenKoro ...
  82. [00:13] KrytenKoro if it stays within ":other appearances", I'm willing to give it a lot of leeway, like we've been doing
  83. [00:13] KrytenKoro if they're suggesting allowing that kind of stuff into the body of the article, not a chance in hell
  84. [00:13] Chitalian sifts through logs
  85. [00:14] KrytenKoro my entire duration on the kingdom hearts wiki, the main thing I've been doing is removing false info that stayed in the article because people speculated and then forgot to remove it when it turned out they were completely wrong
  86. [00:14] Chitalian Drafts must remain in userspace, possible allotment of reasonable, supportable speculation in Trivia (which would still be limited)
  87. [00:14] Chitalian ...
  88. [00:15] Chitalian Possible tweaking of the MoS, but we decided that it wasn't necessary.
  89. [00:15] Chitalian Since both wikis have the exact same one >.>
  90. [00:16] KrytenKoro okay
  91. [00:16] KrytenKoro comment break
  92. [00:16] KrytenKoro per speculation: a long time ago, I made a note about who the voice in Sora's Awakening could be
  93. [00:16] Chitalian Mkay.
  94. [00:16] KrytenKoro it cited quotes, and put together a cohesive argument
  95. [00:16] KrytenKoro things of THAT quality, I could agree to having in a "Notes" section
  96. [00:17] KrytenKoro not Trivia
  97. [00:17] KrytenKoro Trivia needs to die
  98. [00:17] Chitalian .-.
  99. [00:17] KrytenKoro it is, by definition, unimportant and irrelevant waste
  100. [00:17] KrytenKoro but in a notes section, yes, that would be supportable
  101. [00:17] Chitalian So, "Notes and references" could actually not just be "references"?
  102. [00:18] KrytenKoro no
  103. [00:18] KrytenKoro
  104. [00:18] KrytenKoro like that
  105. [00:18] KrytenKoro it would need to be RELEVANT and well-supported
  106. [00:18] KrytenKoro but then, yes, that would be fine
  107. [00:18] Chitalian Seems reasonable.
  108. [00:18] KrytenKoro however, any continuation of this whole "The Mad Dog is the first purple Heartless to be able to bark" needs to die
  109. [00:19] Chitalian Yeah, that's probably not what we're going for ._.
  110. [00:19] KrytenKoro That is allowing a relaxed atmosphere to the point of making a laughingstock of your credibility, and again, not even wikipedia llows it
  111. [00:19] Chitalian FFWiki was brought up on a few occasions.
  112. [00:20] KrytenKoro I'm not going to talk about the ffwiki
  113. [00:20] KrytenKoro that won't be good for anyone
  114. [00:20] Chitalian It maintains a user-friendly atmosphere, while also promoting productive editing.
  115. [00:20] =-= MerryCrono is now known as Crono|Bath
  116. [00:20] KrytenKoro I'm not going to talk about it
  117. [00:20] KrytenKoro because it won't be good for anyone
  118. [00:20] Chitalian If you say so.
  119. [00:20] KrytenKoro the only thing I'll say with respect to other wikis is that tfwiki should be used as a model
  120. [00:21] KrytenKoro if we're going for a "fun, comprehensive wiki"
  121. [00:21] KrytenKoro then tfwiki is the best model for that, NOT ffwiki
  122. [00:21] KrytenKoro anyway
  123. [00:21] Chitalian Templates and Walkthroughs will be discussed at the follow-up, so that leaves combining forums.
  124. [00:22] KrytenKoro per speculation: as long as it is well-supported and clearly distinct from the confirmed, canon facts in the rest of the article, I can't see any problem with it.
  125. [00:22] KrytenKoro The substance of the "Lock-On" dispute was that Erry was designing the ENTIRE ARTICLE to assume that Lock-On was confirmed
  126. [00:22] KrytenKoro which was not true
  127. [00:23] Chitalian We also discussed possibly including Dead Fantasy.
  128. [00:23] Chitalian We have El Centro y el Reino.
  129. [00:23] Chitalian It's KH related, so it wouldn't be a bad thing to have.
  130. [00:23] Chitalian Though, it should definitely focus on the KH aspects of it.
  131. [00:24] Chitalian We do, after all, aim to cover everything KH.
  132. [00:25] KrytenKoro El Centro y el Reino is officially license
  133. [00:25] KrytenKoro *licensed
  134. [00:25] KrytenKoro it is not produced by SE as canon, but it is officially licensed
  135. [00:25] Chitalian Is it?
  136. [00:25] maggosh KrytenKoro: Which tfwiki?
  137. [00:26] KrytenKoro transformers
  138. [00:26] LegoAlchristmas transformers.
  139. [00:26] Chitalian Then my mistake.
  140. [00:26] maggosh Bah.
  141. [00:26] maggosh
  142. [00:26] KrytenKoro transformers was one of the first wikia wikis to go independent, and is powerful enough that half of the senior staff are actually contributing to the franchise itself
  143. [00:26] |<-- Darkheart3 has left freenode (Quit: merry christmas)
  144. [00:26] KrytenKoro and it's policy is to have an article for EVERYTHING
  145. [00:26] maggosh *its
  146. [00:26] KrytenKoro teamfortress might also be of good quality, but as far as I know, it doesn't have the size and influence that tfwiki has
  147. [00:26] KrytenKoro yes, I always type that wrong
  148. [00:27] KrytenKoro Dead Fantasy: I'd like to know how exactly it is any more official than a doodle on deviantart
  149. [00:27] KrytenKoro I also have concerns about whether it's considered copyright infringement or not
  150. [00:27] maggosh Teamfortress wiki is backed and hosted by Vanve servers, and have multilingual articles.
  151. [00:28] maggosh *Valve
  152. [00:28] KrytenKoro then it sounds like it's near the same level as tfwiki
  153. [00:28] KrytenKoro it's probably a good model as well
  154. [00:29] Chitalian Anyway
  155. [00:30] Chitalian Forums. You should probably just learn what each of The Keyhole's forums deals with.
  156. [00:30] KrytenKoro anyway, dead fantasy
  157. [00:30] Chitalian ._.
  158. [00:30] =-= maggosh is now known as maggosh|Away
  159. [00:30] KrytenKoro as we've said before, the keyhole will remain as a wiki-style fansite sort of thing
  160. [00:31] KrytenKoro coverage of the fandom (seriously, did anyone ever look at the fans wiki? they have articles ”on the fandoms themselves”)
  161. [00:31] KrytenKoro a wiki that covers the major webcomics, fansites, etc.
  162. [00:31] KrytenKoro would be perfect
  163. [00:31] KrytenKoro but anyway
  164. [00:31] Chitalian Forums?
  165. [00:31] KrytenKoro I really see no reason why the Dead Fantasy coverage would be better on the khwiki, than to remain on the keyhole
  166. [00:31] Chitalian =.=
  167. [00:32] KrytenKoro and I have serious qualms about exactly how legal the dead fantasy series is
  168. [00:32] LegoAlchristmas Is there anyone among your community capable of unning a wiki like that?
  169. [00:32] LegoAlchristmas *our
  170. [00:32] LegoAlchristmas *running
  171. [00:32] KrytenKoro you start a page for "Kingdom Hearts Ultimania (fansite)"
  172. [00:32] KrytenKoro you start typing
  173. [00:32] KrytenKoro if someone has a membership, you invite khu to edit the article through them
  174. [00:33] KrytenKoro it's pretty straightforward, you just have to start doing it
  175. [00:33] KrytenKoro hell, the Digimon Wiki
  176. [00:33] KrytenKoro it is INTENSELY restrictive
  177. [00:33] KrytenKoro but we let people edit articles about their fan Digimon, or articles about major fansites, fansub groups, etc.
  178. [00:33] KrytenKoro and those articles are thriving
  179. [00:34] KrytenKoro really, it's just a matter of starting the article, and then anons will fill it up quick as you can think
  180. [00:35] KrytenKoro anyway, forums
  181. [00:35] KrytenKoro I don't care about the forums
  182. [00:35] Chitalian ._.
  183. [00:35] KrytenKoro people can do as they wish, I have no real concerns either way
  184. [00:35] Chitalian You wanted a summary >.>
  185. [00:35] KrytenKoro okay
  186. [00:35] KrytenKoro and I'm giving my comments
  187. [00:35] Chitalian ._.
  188. [00:35] -->| Randomnessity (d07bec68@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #wikia-kingdomhearts
  189. [00:35] KrytenKoro 'cause I'm not going to be available for any of these
  190. [00:35] Chitalian Again, get acquainted with those.
  191. [00:35] KrytenKoro I already told you guys that
  192. [00:36] KrytenKoro Unless one of those is a "here's where you plan how to vandalize", I really have no concerns about merging or not merging them
  193. [00:36] Chitalian The Beach and Seat of War are probably getting scrapped due to redundancy
  194. [00:36] KrytenKoro oh!
  195. [00:36] Chitalian And as for Cornerstone hill
  196. [00:36] KrytenKoro or if one of them is "here's where you get pirated stuff"
  197. [00:37] Chitalian It was suggested by ErryK that it becomes a full-fledged KHWiki: page.
  198. [00:37] The17master ...Crap. I overslept
  199. [00:37] |<-- Randomnessity has left freenode (Client Quit)
  200. [00:37] Chitalian [20:57] <@ErryK> Like the page will include various tips, hints, etc and any questions go into the talk page.
  201. [00:37] KrytenKoro is it basically just a gamehelp forum?
  202. [00:37] KrytenKoro that sounds like it would be perfect for building the walkthroughs
  203. [00:37] KrytenKoro I absolutely think it should be merged
  204. [00:37] The17master Does anyone have th log?
  205. [00:37] Chitalian Except it'll be along the lines of an FAQ.
  206. [00:37] Chitalian More of a question-answer thing.
  207. [00:38] KrytenKoro but that we should have a policy that old or closed forums get merged into the walkthrough
  208. [00:38] KrytenKoro that seems fine
  209. [00:38] Chitalian Oh, also, The Keyhole had the brilliant idea of storing away old forums into a separate category.
  210. [00:38] KrytenKoro why?
  211. [00:38] Chitalian So they would not get resurrected.
  212. [00:38] KrytenKoro why not just leave them where they were?
  213. [00:38] Chitalian So people aren't commenting on them years after they've been closed.
  214. [00:38] KrytenKoro (1) how would that keep them from being resurrected, and (2) why is that even a bad thing?
  215. [00:39] KrytenKoro if someone has something to say on the same issue, I'd much rather them see what's already been said and just add to it, rather than having us run through the whole thing again
  216. [00:39] Chitalian The description is "Archived or purged articles that are kept only for later reference."
  217. [00:39] Chitalian So it's basically telling people "Don't go in here".
  218. [00:39] KrytenKoro I've never understood why old threads get locked, especially on bug report forums or the achievement/trophy forums
  219. [00:40] KrytenKoro ...I guess I'll have to bring it up in a forum, 'cause I really don't understand what the bad thing is about bringing these things back up
  220. [00:40] Chitalian Bug reports got locked? ._.
  221. [00:40] KrytenKoro on computer forums, yeah
  222. [00:40] KrytenKoro they throw a fit if you revive an old thread for the EXACT BUG YOU HAVE
  223. [00:40] KrytenKoro which is imbecilic
  224. [00:40] KrytenKoro whatevs
  225. [00:40] -->| wolf5000 (~chatzilla@ has joined #wikia-kingdomhearts
  226. [00:41] Chitalian Anyway, that seems like I've covered anything.
  227. [00:41] Chitalian *everything ._.
  228. [00:41] Chitalian I'm logging this right now, would you like it published somewhere?
  229. [00:43] KrytenKoro but again, I really need an answer: given that this is a wiki, where consensus or whatnot is always allowed to change and discussions aren't usually "closed" on talk pages
  230. [00:43] KrytenKoro let's assume someone has exactly the same topic in mind as in an "old" thread
  231. [00:43] KrytenKoro what would be the need to have them start a new thread?
  232. [00:43] KrytenKoro that seems to be the opposite mindset we use in the wiki itself
  233. [00:44] Chitalian Dunno.
  234. [00:44] Chitalian But, wikia also did archive practically all their talk pages.
  235. [00:44] Chitalian Which is good, since often on talk pages, it's talking about issues that have been either resolved, or are no longer relevant.
  236. [00:45] KrytenKoro mmm
  237. [00:45] KrytenKoro I'm fine with archiving stuff that says "hey this is a problem" and the problem is resolved
  238. [00:45] KrytenKoro that's fine
  239. [00:45] KrytenKoro but with forums...abandoned topics are automatically moved to the back of the queue anyway
  240. [00:46] KrytenKoro I just don't see the purpose of creating a whole separate forum and moving pages just to accomplish what the software does automatically
  241. [00:46] KrytenKoro especially in cases where the same issue ”does” pop up again, and previous decisions and context would be helpful if easily accessible
  242. [00:46] KrytenKoro whatever
  243. [00:47] KrytenKoro yeah, you can post a log of this with the other logs
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