WD_Israel IRC conversations

<Olivebirdy> Behemoth surfaced in the Marun Fields, how much damage did he do?
<Olivebirdy> https://imgur.com/a/ZXuKI?
<Olivebirdy> Like, should I assume that Iran is destitute, or should I assume that he was stopped before they had no oil left?
<Wildbow> Oh, the fields are gone.  Iran has other sources of income, but it hurt.
<Olivebirdy> They'll just have to cry into their gas fields.
<Olivebirdy> (look at the red marks on the map)
<Olivebirdy> Hum. The Sunnis have way more oil than the Shiites, then.
<Olivebirdy> Hizbollah and Lebanon are weaker.
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<Olivebirdy> Hamas, PLO, should largely be unaffected.
<Olivebirdy> Iraq might be able to push into Iran.
<Wildbow> Yeah, the greater consequences are what it does to the political landscape
<Olivebirdy> That's actually what I'm trying to figure out :P
<Olivebirdy> I'm being bullied into WD Israel again.
<Olivebirdy> What was done in Saudi Arabia and (Missouri? Texas?) America to keep Behemoth away from the other huge sources of oil?
<Wildbow> They valued oil higher.
<Wildbow> Knowing it might be targeted or lost.
<Olivebirdy> Sellsellsellsellsellsellsell
<Olivebirdy> probably stockpiled huge amounts.
<Wildbow> Stockpiles are dangerous, eh?



<Olivebirdy> So, Winged.
<Winged> ?
<Olivebirdy> What's likely to be the result of Saudi Arabia suddenly getting much richer?
<Olivebirdy> See, in '92, Behemoth killed the competing oil fields in Iran.
<Winged> nothing good
<Winged> I'm no political science student, but saudi arabia has spent ages trying to sell this wahabist thing to everyone else
<Olivebirdy> But Wahabism is against the house of Saud now.
<Winged> and their current cockamamie attempts to restart a caliphate ended up with ISIS
<Winged> is it now?
<Olivebirdy> And the house of saud is in charge of the oil?
<Olivebirdy> hm
* Olivebirdy goes to check the wikipedia article now
<Olivebirdy> *recheck
<Winged> well, wouldn't be surprised if they lost control of the beast they birthed
<Winged> anyway, my point is: they're probably gonna try to start a middle eastern CUI of sorts
<Olivebirdy> Makes sense.
<Winged> though this is hella theocratic and religious, and Scion + parahumans may muck that up. Then again, religion is great at persisting through literally anything
<Winged> but like
<Olivebirdy> Mhm.
<Olivebirdy> It's proof of miracles.
<Olivebirdy> I don't know how much Muslims care about miracles, though
<Winged> especially on the back of fortune literally caused by a giant world crushing demon rising from the pits of the earth
<Winged> bleeding brimstone
<Winged> saudi arabia on a political level is hard to separate from their religious angles
<Winged> and the question is: how do they spin this
<Olivebirdy> Like, I can imagine Jews going 'Well, okay, miracles. So what?'
<Winged> I can entirely imagine a branch of islam that treats parahumans as possessed by demons or something
<Olivebirdy> What, really?
<Olivebirdy> I guess it fits...
<Olivebirdy> maybe not a branch, but definitely a couple of fatwas.
<Winged> imagine you're like, no longer in the west. You're part of the Old World
<Olivebirdy> which may or may not be ignored
<Winged> god is watching, sins and saints are all over the place, neighbouring countries are in bitter sectarian conflict over who's the true prophet
<Olivebirdy> Okay, so I have my tent and my family and my camel.
<Winged> heretics from far west keep trying to bomb you
<Winged> like, your worldview is just a bit mythical, just a bit god touched
<Olivebirdy> I like it.
<Winged> an angelic figure shows up over the ocean. Okay. This is clearly a sign of something.
<Winged> It's very abstract and far away though, probably gabriel or something? maybe?
<Winged> people start getting powers all over the place. Especially the underclasses.
<Winged> Especially women.
<Winged> Witches, all of them
<Winged> I mean, sure, maybe that's not literally a conscious thought you have or justification
<Winged> but this is a world where the Evil Eye is still a thing that people are scared about
<Olivebirdy> but it's understandable
<Winged> and now there are women running around who can fry you with their eyes
<Winged> and stuff
<Winged> it's scary, it's against the natural order of power, stuff
<Winged> so far so good. There's probably some debate, some people saying this means shiia or sunni, etc. etc.
<Olivebirdy> would women have their own villain groups?
<Winged> Then a world destroying 20 story tall Kaiju erupts from the earth, and pretty much murders an entire country
<Winged> next door
<Olivebirdy> lash out against their lack of freedom
<Winged> it came from the pits of hell, it lashed out with lightning and flame, it was immortal
<Olivebirdy> https://imgur.com/gallery/ZXuKI/comment/716946935/1?lr=0
<Olivebirdy> demon
<Olivebirdy> it's definitely a demon
<Olivebirdy> This actually gives more incentive to be religious.
<Winged> right.
<Olivebirdy> Pray as if your life depends on it, because guess what, it does.
<Winged> And like, this is a land where every imaam is constantly trying to galvanize people to do X or Y
<Winged> all the time
<Winged> this is a /field day/ for them
<Winged> as long as there's religious symbolism anywhere, they can spin it into anything they want
<Winged> everything probably went nuts
<Winged> bow touched upon this by turning china into an imperial state
<Olivebirdy> How does a person go about claiming to be good not evil?
<Winged> as a kind of example of Stuff Went Nuts
<Olivebirdy> I guess by being perfect.
<Winged> there very well may be a branch that says parahumans are like, holy
<Olivebirdy> of course there is
<Winged> and meant to fight the endbringers who are evil
<Winged> turning this into Exalted I guess
<Olivebirdy> but then you get the homosex... no wait, I don't know if they would broadcast it.
<Winged> then again you have to deal with the fact that the majority of parahumans in these places will be women
<Winged> either they're ignored or marginalized or people have to acknowledge them
<Olivebirdy> trigger events can get bloody
<Olivebirdy> you have lower classes and women and disgusting homosexuals triggering
<Winged> the thing about trauma based superpowers is that they flip power structures on their heads. It's something I toyed with it an RPG years and years ago
<Winged> in the west this is mostly fine. You're already in a culture built on at least nominal lip service to egalitarianism
<Winged> being saved by a black girl may make someone feel emasculated but it's not like it's unthinkably outside public discourse
<Olivebirdy> Gawd, everything is going nuts.
<Winged> in saudi arabia, women can't drive
<Winged> and priests on television talk about the right way to beat your wife
<Olivebirdy> In Israel, everything is simple, you know?
<Winged> there are kind of strict roles for how everything is supposed to go
<Olivebirdy> common enemy, palestinians against israel, internal vs external
<Olivebirdy> there are teams
<Winged> and then some girl snaps and murders her father who was trying to honour kill her
<Winged> and then what?
<Olivebirdy> Girl groups of paras
<Winged> Israel would be a nightmare
<Winged> maybe open parahuman warfare
<Olivebirdy> I don't know, like I said, Israel has teams
<Winged> ehh, maybe, maybe not
<Winged> these are also places where it's hard to communicate and get the right of assembly
<Winged> they don't really have great unfetted uncensored access to the internet
<Winged> in saudi arabia, a woman can't go to the hospital without a male relative escorting her
<Winged> you're not allowed to do things in public without male relatives
<Winged> it kind of lends itself more to isolation and additional trauma than any kind of cathartic girl power thing
<Olivebirdy> why is that a thing? people don't want to keep their dogs on leashes
<Olivebirdy> I don't get why laziness doesn't prevail
<Winged> you'll just get browbeaten women who are now extra terrified of what they are and whether this means they're now going to hell? probably?
<Winged> like, women are just as much a part of the system that oppresses other women
<Olivebirdy> if I always had to take my sisters around, I'd be annoyed
<Winged> they're true believers too
<Olivebirdy> right.
<Olivebirdy> ...I want to do WD_Saudi Arabia
<Olivebirdy> So tantalizing
<Olivebirdy> I just don't know enough
<Olivebirdy> So, you have this utter chaos.
<Olivebirdy> Religious groups with less parapower than the dozens of girls running around
<Olivebirdy> the homosexuals would be banding together and being hunted
<Olivebirdy> by well, everyone
<Winged> it'll be a mistake to characterize the demographic as mostly girls
<Winged> it'll be majority girls probably, but men lead shitty lives there too
<Winged> shards look for unique trauma, for original experience
<Winged> I think it's the wog reason as to why there are so few rape based triggered parahumans
<Olivebirdy> I have not seen this WoG.
<Olivebirdy> I don't think it's true.
<Winged> https://www.reddit.com/r/Parahumans/comments/4j65s0/can_someone_trigger_while_pregnant/
<Winged> kind of extrapolating from this post I guess
<Winged> if a lot of people have very similar Worst Days Of Their Lives, then the trigger-per-person rate is gonna go down
<Winged> they need to have unique spins on it
<Winged> still means you'll get a lot of girls triggering
<Winged> they explicitly say as much in Worm don't they? majority female, majority from third world
<Olivebirdy> i'm looking for that rn
<Olivebirdy> but doesn't that mean that there will be a majority of women?
<Winged> https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/shell-4-3/
<Winged> “Or why third world countries have the highest densities of people with powers.  Not capes, but a lot of people with powers.”
<Winged> yeah it'll be majority, but probably not 90% majority I guess
<Winged> distribution will be more even that it would seem to be at first blush I think
<Teller> I agree with Winged. Keep in mind it's not just a threshold of trauma - there are plenty of people who have terrible things happen to them and never trigger. The entities pick and choose.
<Olivebirdy> I thought it was that the things that happen are not horrible enough for a trigger event.
<Olivebirdy> Anyway.
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<Olivebirdy> Saudi Arabia is in chaos.
<Olivebirdy> It gets an influx of wealth.
<Winged> disclaimer: I did not grow up in Saudi Arabia
<Winged> my life sucked but it didn't suck that bad
<Olivebirdy> Does it really go for Salafist proselytization instead of trying to put out its own fires?
<Olivebirdy> got it.
<Winged> Dubai is kind of Saudi's liberal younger brother. Or at least, the creepy one who tries to look liberal for the tourists
<Winged> I did have friends in Saudi though. Remember talking to Tanziyah about the religious police
<Olivebirdy> Noted.
<Olivebirdy> Money goes to establishment.
<Olivebirdy> maybe groups try capturing oil fields, but generally money will go to the owners, which is house of saud.
<Winged> you can't just 'capture an oil field'
<Winged> the only way you'll get money for that is through the logistics of selling it to the rest of the world, which is gonna go through standard trade channels probably
<Winged> especially if you're just 5 parahumans and not like a war party of 500 men
<Winged> you could capture it and ransom control back to the government I guess
<Winged> but they don't generate money RTS style
<Olivebirdy> why can't people buy oil from them?
<Winged> sure, they can, they just need to transport the oil out. And risk the country's diplomatic ire unless they do it secretly. And you have access to oil stockpiled at the fields, but if you want to keep using the oil fields you need workers who know how to run and maintain them
<Winged> it's just... distinctly non trivial
<Winged> it's a Coil kind of operation, not a military parahuman squad kind of operation
<Olivebirdy> got it.
<Olivebirdy> so, establishment gets oil.
<Winged> if you want to just fuck with the government though, burning oil fields is pretty easy in comparison
<Winged> terrorism is a thing
<Winged> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_well_fire
<Winged> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwaiti_oil_fires
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<Olivebirdy> Okay, I'm a woman that triggered. I go to my brothers/husband/father and have them tell me what to do.
<Olivebirdy> They would probably try to just keep me at home.
<Olivebirdy> Women don't go out by themselves, they are not soldiers.
<Olivebirdy> The family can't really use me.
<Olivebirdy> I eventually explode, because that's what happens, and then... what? Run away? To whom? Who would have me?
<Olivebirdy> People are being jailed and whipped for witchcraft.
<Olivebirdy> There's just nowhere to go.
<Lacks|away> Worth noting that, while not in Saudi, Pakistan did have at least one group of hardcore Muslim extremist girls going around and attacking people for being not sufficiently Muslim.  In real life, I stress, not even in Worm.
* Lacks|away is now known as Lacks
<Lacks> Not sure how different the culture is in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (probably a lot), but it's evidence that even highly fundamentalist Muslims don't have a problem with using women/girls for their extremism.
* Wildafk is now known as Wildbow
<Olivebirdy> Hiya 'bow.
<Wildbow> o/
<Olivebirdy> We've been discussing trigger events and politics in the Middle East.
<Wildbow> Yes.  I scrolled up
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<Olivebirdy> Hi Div.
<Olivebirdy> I'm wondering if Cauldron would help support the Wahabists.
<Olivebirdy> Larger groups are better, Islamist want everyone to be together...
<Olivebirdy> Plus, well, if people are miserable, that means more triggers.
<Wildbow> Religious extremism didn't get the same traction it did in our world.  So things never took that huge leap backward through the 80s.
<Lacks> I think the absolute number of trigger events was less important to Cauldron (if they even cared) than the stability which allowed more parahumans to survive.
<Winged> aha, fair enough
<Olivebirdy> Of course, they would also have fingers in support structures, the places where the persecuted could run to.
<Lacks> Largely because of the timing of their chosen end-of-the-world scenario.  If they'd let things continue to slide toward chaos, there probably would have been more triggers, but less parahumans would survive for any length of time.
<Olivebirdy> So they want something more stable than the Wahabists would create.
<Olivebirdy> Thing is, 'bow, I'm not sure why that would be. Like Winged said, Scion, the parahumans, the Endbringers, would all be taken as proof of the spiritual.
<Olivebirdy> That huge leap backwards...  I'm thinking of the Muslim Brotherhood denouncing Arabism, due to moral degradation.
<Olivebirdy> sorry, not denouncing arabism
<Olivebirdy> And that still happened, the Muslim Brotherhood is still a thing. So was the Islamic Revolution in Iran.







<Olivebirdy> <Snippyro> Also, It'll get super complicated the more political you get
<Olivebirdy> <Snippyro> You can have the parallels of the knife intiada we had in the summer, except with palestinian triggers hitting as much as they can until "neutrelized"
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> Ooooh
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> Definitely a thing with the ones who feel guilty.
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> 'I will absolve all sins!'
<Olivebirdy> <Snippyro> And it'll fit awesomely in the themes wildbow keeps playing. like, teaming up against common enemies
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> I keep thinking that Israel will put its parahumans into the IDF.
<Olivebirdy> <Snippyro> you probably arn't wrong
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> And I alos keep thinking that it will clash with the very independent thinking Israelis have.
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> maybe not 'thinking'
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> but they hate being suckers
<Olivebirdy> <Snippyro> Stranger & Trump classes in tha mossad, Thinkers in the intellegence...
<Wildbow> Olive, mate
<Olivebirdy> Yes?
<Olivebirdy> I'm not done!
<Olivebirdy> :O
<Wildbow> Pastebin!
<Olivebirdy> ah.
<Olivebirdy> Riiiiight
<Olivebirdy> Thing is, the PLO/Hamas won't want to waste their parahumans on terror strikes.
<Olivebirdy> Parahumans are useful.
<Snippyro> I don't know how much they'll get to keep
<Snippyro> I really do want to believe Palestinian & Israeli heroes *will* team up against both kinds of villans
<Olivebirdy> Like, okay, they'll definitely reward their martyrs, and I'm not sure they'll be able to stop them, but they'd prefer to keep them.
<Snippyro> but then again, peace in the middle east has let me down before :I
<Olivebirdy> Depends on the person, you know?
<Olivebirdy> The PLO did send us fire trucks.
<Olivebirdy> Some want peace, some want war.
<Snippyro> Thats alway is the case. i guess most people always want to carry on peacefully with their lives
<Snippyro> but parahumans will magnify and up the scale of those times when people ... don't
<Olivebirdy> There's also the question of Masks. Once the mask goes on, you can have any opinion you want, and not have it affect your real life.
<Olivebirdy> The Haredi girl who wants to cut loose.
<Olivebirdy> The Left-winger who knows what the government ought to be doing.
<Olivebirdy> The Religious Zionist who considers all the land his from God.
<Olivebirdy> And suddenly they have actual power.
<Snippyro> yup. not all would be responsible adults
<Snippyro> thats nice, because you also get that conflict inside one person and not just between diffrent people
<Snippyro> I think there would be a lot of social pressure to go either hero or villain, and rogues won't really be a thing
<Snippyro> also, Military capes would be a reallly weird concept
<Olivebirdy> Way more pressure to be a fighter in a war zone.
<Olivebirdy> Military capes would likely be getting court-martialed a lot, unless they get their fill of fighting.
<Olivebirdy> Or maybe they'd need very understanding officers?
<Snippyro> they can & will be blamed for crimes against humanity in international courts
<Olivebirdy> Depends.
<Olivebirdy> International courts weren't really that much of a thing back then?
<Olivebirdy> I think.
<Snippyro> Im thinking IDF might incoporate or work in parallel to a PRT like organization
<Olivebirdy> HaMisrad LaGiburai-Al?
<Olivebirdy> Let's start from the beginning.
<Snippyro> and the army itself might decide it's better not to directly harbor any superpowered people, that being... unconventional?
<Olivebirdy> ?
<Olivebirdy> I dunno, depends on the world sentiment.
<Olivebirdy> If Israel's feeling secure, they'd go 'sure, if the whole world doesn't have parahumans in the military, we won't either'
<Olivebirdy> If not 'Fuck the whole world, we need parahumans in the military. The world hates us anyway.'
<Snippyro> I can see it going both ways
<Snippyro> also, When did israel EVER  feel secure?
<Olivebirdy> This shit is so complicated...
<Snippyro> The middle east is pretty complicated without parahumans, eh?
<Olivebirdy> There are times that we think that the US and some other countries have our back enough that we can feel that we won't be condemned too much.
<Olivebirdy> (Thank you Micronesia, we love you.)
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> Let's start from the beginning.
<Olivebirdy> Scion appears in 1982.
<Olivebirdy> Cold War putters out some years later, I think.
<Olivebirdy> Real world '91, Wormverse earlier.
<Wildbow> Russia/US settle into a firm noncommunicative but peaceful state.  Go their own individual directions.
<Olivebirdy> About what year?
<Snippyro> 82 mean first lebanon war happens w/ parahumans
<Olivebirdy> Some, not many. Secret. They only come out of the shadows in 87
<Snippyro> How common is it for soldiers to trigger, If the usual rate is 3-5%? S:
<Wildbow> Don't have my bible at hand, Ollie
<Olivebirdy> Fair.
<Olivebirdy> Snippy, the trigger has to be interesting, unique.
<Olivebirdy> Can't be just normal fighting.
<Olivebirdy> Normal is boring for shards.
<Olivebirdy> So yeah, Cold War is not going to affect the Lebanon War all that much.
<Olivebirdy> Same as in the real world, Soviet tech going up against American.
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<Olivebirdy> And then we hit the Gulf War.
<Olivebirdy> (There has probably been 5> triggers in the course of the Lebanon War, mostly on the side of the Christians, Muslims. Maybe an Israeli.
<Olivebirdy> )
<Snippyro> when was Iran hit by behemoth, again? maybe Iraq isn't ready to invade Cuwait if Iraq-Iran lingers on
<Olivebirdy> 1992
<Snippyro> Ahh, we got time
<Olivebirdy> War of the Camps in  Lebanon still happens, now augmented by parahumans.
<Olivebirdy> Christians vs Muslims.
<Olivebirdy> We'll figure out what happens later, I guess.
<Snippyro> You have to admit it'd be pretty awesome if parahumans happening would help steer the middle east to peace, on the grand scale of things
<Olivebirdy> Uhhhh
<Olivebirdy> It's not going to happen.
<Wildbow> I haven't really hammered out anything particular for gulf war/thereabouts/thenabouts.  But the general approach to things was that the soviet invasion of Afghanistan didn't happen, no military dictatorship in pakistan, Iranian revolution in 1979 took a different course.
<Wildbow> In the aftermath, rather
<Olivebirdy> But Scion only arrived in 1982?
<Wildbow> Aye.  Aftermath
<Olivebirdy> Ah.
<Snippyro> I took the ayatollah regime a little time to stabilze
<Olivebirdy> (Part of the reason I'm trying to hash this out here is to help. )
<Olivebirdy> (ME is complicated as fuck.)
<Wildbow> Groups pushed back, some powers arose, traction didn't happen, Scion polarized & forced a public discourse on religion and different approach to conflict, etc.
<Olivebirdy> I can really only see that happening if Cauldron bolstered the secular portions with more parahumans.
<Olivebirdy> Because the ME is full of religious people who won't take no for an answer.
<Snippyro> I think it would have an impact nonetheless. maybe, things branching into smaller currents
<Olivebirdy> MEaning?
<Olivebirdy> Sure, you'd have people calling it the End of Times.
<Olivebirdy> But that would make people more likely to polarize, not less
<Olivebirdy> And the polarization does not encourage public discourse, it hasn't so far.
<Olivebirdy> It encourages people to join extremist groups and act out.
<Olivebirdy> More destabilization, not less.
<Olivebirdy> Public discourse won't work when you already have all the answers.
<Olivebirdy> And by nature, extremists act.
<Snippyro> that was what I was implying, If that wasnt clear. except you last sentence, which I didn't get?
<Olivebirdy> When you know that you have God on your side, you go and do what God says. You don't talk it out, you fight.
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<Olivebirdy> Ideologues simplify the world around them, and tend to the conclusion that struggle is necessary.
<Olivebirdy> So yeah. Polarization, then Cauldron floods the less extreme parties with powers, who keep the extremists in line, or only fighting them.
<Snippyro> I like the idea of a multicultural Islamic group Cauldron  can go for
<Olivebirdy> Cauldron would love an Islamic or Pan-Arabist group.
<Snippyro> Like the arabic league. The arabic Justice League :D
<Olivebirdy> Mhm.
<Olivebirdy> Which, of course, terrifies Israel.
<Snippyro> but the MGA will be supported end-to-end by the PRT
<Olivebirdy> Yep.
<Olivebirdy> There are going to be pressures on the AJL, though.
<Snippyro> we gotta find something better then HaMisrad LaGiburai-Al xD
<Olivebirdy> It's true to life!
<Olivebirdy> See, Iraq does not like Iran.
<Olivebirdy> Syria and Lebanon would join, as would Iran.
<Snippyro> Maybe MAGEN, haMisrad leGiborim veNavalim? as it takes care of both affairs.
<Olivebirdy> Noooo
<Olivebirdy> We're not going to make a government office for Villains.
<Snippyro> Registering heroes, incarcereting villains!
<Olivebirdy> ehhh
<Olivebirdy> Jordan would join the Lebanon Axis.
<Olivebirdy> Egypt... I dunno.
<Snippyro> Egypt & jordan make much more sense with the AJL as they are sunni
<Olivebirdy> Pan-Arabic or Islamist huge hero groups would be nice, but they all hate each other....
<Olivebirdy> Um
<Olivebirdy> Okay, I had an idea.
<Snippyro> so does iraq under sadam, IMO. Iran is the one which might find itself on the outside
<Olivebirdy> Cauldron could use Israel as a reason to make that Pan-Arabic League.
<Olivebirdy> Get Israel lots of Paras, make it make threatening moves, forcing them to work together.
<Olivebirdy> Or frame it.
<Olivebirdy> Or give the Greater Israel people powers, have them actually go for it.
<Olivebirdy> Israel is forced back, Palestinians are given their state, the AJL has learned the powers of friendship.
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<Olivebirdy> Hi Lacks
<Snippyro> that hangs on where cauldrons contacts stand.I doubt it will choose to talk to the israeli goverment?
<Lacks> G'day, Olive.  How's it goin'?
<Olivebirdy> http://pastebin.com/sge3k3LE
<Olivebirdy> Snip has made me bring WD Israel up again.
<Olivebirdy> :p
<Snippyro> I neither deny nor confirm.
<Olivebirdy> It might talk to the government. Blackmail works.
<Olivebirdy> It might just talk to the IDF. 'We can get you powers.'
<Olivebirdy> It might just talk to the Greater Israelis.
<Lacks> Ah, I remember a certain amount of discussion like this before, I believe.
<Snippyro> Oh my god i got it!!!
<Olivebirdy> Yep.
<Olivebirdy> It's not the same discussion, it's similar.
<Lacks> Indeed.
<Snippyro> IDF won't confirm or deny utilizing parahumans. like with nuclear ambiguity..
<Snippyro> thinkers in intellegnce? OBVIOUSLY CLASSIFIED.
<Olivebirdy> :D
<Olivebirdy> Perfect.
<Snippyro> If only we had them is '73, Yom Kippur won't have happened.
<Olivebirdy> Russia may have given Syria and Egypt bad info too.
<Olivebirdy> What do you think, Lacks? Could an aggressive Israel cause a Pan-Arabic Justice League?
<Olivebirdy> There are things that Israel can do that will piss off the entire Muslim World.
<Snippyro> Also, can you imagine *ALL* the saudi heroines flying with the same looking burkas? :(
<Olivebirdy> Blow up the Al-Aqsa Mosque, mistreat the Palestinians, and start attempting to conquer.
<Olivebirdy> Okay, that's funny.
<Snippyro> TBH parahumans might cause israel to pacify since proper army power isn't as effective anyomre
<Lacks> I dunno, the Muslim world tends to fracture pretty naturally.  Unless you got an ABB-like situation (a crazy strong parahuman welding it all together through personal force) I doubt it would *really* unite.
<Olivebirdy> Cauldron could keep feeding both sides, encouraging parahuman growth and the PAJL.
<Snippyro> unless you have a Superpowered individual, seeking conflict, in charge...
<Lacks> After all, you only need one or two of the right parahumans in the right place to break things apart.
<Olivebirdy> Point.
<Olivebirdy> Perhaps the PAJL is strong enough to hold tight?
<Olivebirdy> Just like you don't piss off the Triumvirate, you might not want to try to fracture the PAJL
<Lacks> It's a possibility, but I imagine it's a somewhat remote one.  After all, we have both observed examples and WoG on what happens when you get too many natural triggers together in the same place.
<Olivebirdy> Cauldron would like to encourage it.
<Olivebirdy> They'd likely have a good core of people who owed them.
<Snippyro> Maybe, but for how long? Imean, until there is an armsmaster-like incident when someone takes advantage of an endbringer attack
<Snippyro> Or some bilateral crisis breaks more stuff
<Olivebirdy> https://goo.gl/images/veNPJP
<Olivebirdy> Not all hijabs are equal :)
<Lacks> I could see Cauldron trying to prop up the existing regimes in the Middle East, if they started early enough, before all the secular progress started to move backwards.
<Snippyro> welll, if there is one solution to a stable middle east, it has to be Contessa.
<Olivebirdy> I'd rather not rely on her, though.
<Olivebirdy> She has enough problems.
<Lacks> Would she care that much?
<Olivebirdy> Cauldron wants big groups they can take over.
<Snippyro> "I want peace in the middle east". okay, 989,799,911 steps. "...Meh."
<Olivebirdy> I don't know if they want stability or conflict, though.
<Lacks> I mean, go back a few decades and the Middle East is a very different place than it is today.  I could see that place being somewhere that Cauldron would want to support.  But if they don't get into the game until later, I can't see them wanting to support a fundamentalist Islamic regime.
<Olivebirdy> Depends. They didn't care much about Africa.
<Snippyro> but the middle east always matter to anyone
<Snippyro> because... oil.
<Olivebirdy> If the regime is powerful enough, if it supplies enough paras, they'd be okay with whatever.
<Olivebirdy> Okay, so. Should I give up on the idea of the PAJL?
<Lacks> Well, we know that Africa had a *vast* number of parahmans, and Cauldron clearly dealt with them on at least some level, as we saw with Moord Nag.
<Lacks> But they didn't observably prop up any African regimes or super-teams.
<Olivebirdy> Split it up into Sunni, Shiite and Secular teams?
<Lacks> I could see having one or two moderately large Muslim super-teams, and a lot of small groups and solo parahumans constantly causing problems.
<Snippyro> but Moord Nag is exceptionally powerfull. i guess cauldron tries to stick it's nose above petty politics as countries are that much weaker frames in the wormverse
<Snippyro> its*
<Olivebirdy> Yeah, I can see that.
<Olivebirdy> Back to Israel.
<Lacks> I mean, for me, when I'm developing anything for a story/game, I tend to model it off real-life examples or circumstances.
<Lacks> So modeling Muslim teams off historical examples of various groups could work.
<Olivebirdy> So, it's not likely to be in Cauldron's interests to make Israel into a dragon for the superteam to slay
<Olivebirdy> Because the Superteam won't stay a superteam.
<Snippyro> But a dragon can only be slain once. fueling bothes sides makes more sense?
<Olivebirdy> Well, yeah.
<Snippyro> both*. ugggh.
<Lacks> Well, by the 80's, the West in general already had a vested interest in keeping Israel strong, so Cauldron would probably have to go a long way to change that.
<Lacks> If they even could.
<Olivebirdy> Sure.
<Olivebirdy> The West sends over the pre-Suits to try to keep things stable, Cauldron helps, but the AJL grows and grows
<Olivebirdy> (Which, incidentally, helps trigger Israelis.
<Olivebirdy> Bunch of Tinkers.
<Lacks> I imagine that the Protectorate would have some presence there too, especially after Behemoth.
<Wildbow> My general feeling was that I wanted to stay away from the issues of the modern era, with ISIS/Al Qaeda dominating the news.  Cauldron works to establish peace and curb religious extremism, things trend back toward where they were prior to the late 70s.
<Lacks> The US government would definitely want a foothold.
<Wildbow> Then Behemoth fucks it up a bit, but the trend remains strong.
<Snippyro> Yes. I doubt the 2011 revolutions still hold any water when scion happens as soon as 1982
<Lacks> Would they do that by having Contessa poke governments, or by giving vials to specific people, or what?
<Olivebirdy> Yes.
<Olivebirdy> :)
<Wildbow> Yeah.
<Olivebirdy> :))))
<Lacks> Like, I can see a lot of change being caused by 10-20 specific, moderate, properly-placed people getting high-quality vials at the right time.
<Olivebirdy> I don't know enough about the secular movements.
<Lacks> They were pretty strong across most of the Middle East through a lot of the 20th century.  You can look at pictures of Iran/Iraq/wherever from the 60's-70's and they look like any modern, Western nation.
<Olivebirdy> Lebanon can be helped towards the secular by helping the Christian side of the War of the Camps, probably.
<Olivebirdy> The later half of the 80's is open to intervention.
<Snippyro> and say Iran stablizes as less religious, more like when the shaa was in power
<Olivebirdy> How does that come about?
<Olivebirdy> It's a theocracy, and has been since Khomenei.
<Snippyro> Scion apearring undermines the religious unity, and behemoth is the final accord to fuck up the rising tensions?
<Olivebirdy> I dislike that thinking, 'Scion appearing undermines the religious unity'
<Olivebirdy> Could you elaborate, so I can be sure I didn't misunderstand?
<Olivebirdy> But sure, I'm sure that Behemoth can rattle things up enough that Cauldron could secularize things.
<Snippyro> Mhmm, we disscused this earlier. scion & paras appearing is interpreted very differently across the same tends, creating and branching more denominations
<Snippyro> i wrotd "tends" but i have no idea what word i meant. felling dyslexic] today :I
<Snippyro> ]
<Lacks> Scion's appearance, and the emergence of parahumans, tend to give both determination and power to smaller groups.  People split apart, rather than gathering together.
<Olivebirdy> Mm. People will just fit it into their view of reality.
<Lacks> Naturally fragmentary groups, like religions tend to be, would often splinter even further, I'd say.
<Olivebirdy> Yeah.
<Olivebirdy> Okay.
<Lacks> In the short term, while parahumans are still reasonably rare, I'd say that secular, legally-based entities like governments would have more power, rather than less.
<Lacks> Any naturally unifying force would, I think.

<Olivebirdy> So yeah, we would have groups coming and attacking Israel.
<Olivebirdy> Small ones, probably.
<Olivebirdy> Either terror or frontal attack.
<Olivebirdy> Secular alliances are on the top, with Cauldron help.
<Olivebirdy> Lower down, you have the Islamic teams, Shiite and Sunni. Still big.
<Lacks> Yeah.  Parahumans tend towards a certain immediacy by their nature, I think.  They don't tend to wait.  So you'd get a lot of them acting out *right away* when they had a belief that something needed to be done.
<Olivebirdy> ^
<Olivebirdy> Then you'd have the fragmentary, reactionary groups.
<Snippyro> when you say terror, are you thinking Superpowered-Jihad or Slaughterhouse 9?
<Olivebirdy> The extremists, the right-nowists.
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<Olivebirdy> Superpowered Jihad, I haven't even gotten into normal villains.
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<Lacks> Another issue about parahumans is that you can never predict when or where they'll show up, how strong they'll be, or what form their power will take.  So if they're a problem for you, chances are they'll keep being a problem, slowly wearing things away at an increasing pace as time goes on.
<Snippyro> Is it still Jihad if you are invincible? if not, this makes defending easier.
<Lacks> Holding the line can work in the short term, especially with parahumans of your own, but it'll inevitably get harder over time.
<Olivebirdy> Boy is it going to be fun in the ME.
<Snippyro> need some fatwas on superpowers there.
<Olivebirdy> They'd be all over the place. Some would say they should only be used for Holy Things, some would call them witchcraft, some would say it's from god and other would say it's from Satan.
<Snippyro> I can imagine people blaming israel for endbringer attackes...
<Olivebirdy> No shit
<Olivebirdy> You think it's coincidence that Behemoth went after the oil fields?
<Snippyro> well obviously Behemoth went there because the zionists control the media.
<Olivebirdy> Dude, no. Correlation is not causation. Zionist control Behemoth and the media.
<Snippyro> I stand corrected
<Lacks> Not that I've got a problem with jokes along those lines, but just as a reminder, try not to get too close to #politics content.
<Olivebirdy> Sorry, sorry.
<Snippyro> I loled xD
<Lacks> No worries.
<Olivebirdy> So. What do I need to do to set up WD_Israel?
<Snippyro> Pick a major-not-too-major city.
<Olivebirdy> Lebanon War is done, has there been a war after?
<Olivebirdy> Gulf War, yeah?
<Snippyro> I think WD_Israel can be more on the state level and less reigonal if you choose so
<Olivebirdy> I know, I know, I just need to get this all straight in my head.
<Olivebirdy> Okay, maybe not need
<Lacks> You'd want WD_(name of city) rather than WD_Isreal, I'd say.
<Snippyro> Inb4 WD_Ashdod
<Olivebirdy> So what happens with the intifada?
<Olivebirdy> Does it still happen? I'd think it does.
<Snippyro> Thinker powers allow you to predict which busses are targeted
<Snippyro> and it solves the "single terrorist" problem IDF has porblems with
<Olivebirdy> Eh. Sounds like a copout.
<Olivebirdy> Also, we probably don't have Thinkers that stong.
<Olivebirdy> *strong
<Snippyro> I didn't say no intifada! but we need more thinking
<Olivebirdy> Maybe a Tinker for detecting?
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<Olivebirdy> Hi Teller.
<Teller|GM> Hi.
<Teller|GM> How's it going?
<Lacks> Rather than thinking of how existing historical events played out, you might have better luck creating a new one to expand on, Olive.
<Olivebirdy> Where's the divergence point?
<Lacks> Up to you.  Could be almost anywhere you want it to be.
<Olivebirdy> The same stresses occur to create similar situations.
<Wildbow> I think you're a bit locked in there, Ollie
<Olivebirdy> A bit, yeah
<Olivebirdy> I agree.
<Olivebirdy> Just make a city, make trigger events, and don't worry about the geopolitics?
<Snippyro> Worry ambigously.
<Lacks> Don't worry *too much*, at least.  You can create something more in the abstract, if you want.  Or focus on one defining event that shapes the region the way you want.
<Wildbow> Or just create a name and refer to it when explaining why things are more secular/peaceful
<Lacks> But I will say that it's almost certain that your players will care more about the city-level politics that directly affect them than they will about the politics of the region.  And they'll care about the politics of the region a lot more than they'll care about the history that shaped those politics.
<Wildbow> Lacks speaks wisdom
<Lacks> I do, it's true.
<Olivebirdy> :)
<Lacks> I suppose one question to ask yourself would be what sort of city would interest you to set a game in.  Then you can work backwards from there.
<Snippyro> And thus, WD_Haifa is born
<Olivebirdy> I do like Haifa...
<Snippyro> It's large enough, but it's not tel aviv or jerusalem and you can avoid too much politics on the state level
<Snippyro> prefect :>
<Olivebirdy> Ooooh, Jerusalem!
<Lacks> Jerusalem would almost inevitably involve religion and politics in the game.  That could work if your players are familiar and interested in that sort of thing.  But if they don't know anything about the region, it might fall flat.
<Lacks> As a GM, you always need to consider who your players are, and what their interests are, then build off that.
<Wildbow> You'd need either a cheat sheet or a shakeup
<Wildbow> The shakeup being something that means they don't have to care about such and you can parcel it out
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<Antioch> Lemme make Moshiach ben Joseph as a cape. >:)
<Snippyro> Maybe a throwaway name for a jerusalem cape.
<Snippyro> Jerusalem would be unavoidable for the palestinian-israeli conflict thou
<Snippyro> better stick with haifa and have jerusalem constantly up in the news?
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<Olivebirdy> Thing is, I like the politics :|
<Olivebirdy> And the players don't have to know them, all they have to do is stick to their own side of the ideological divide.
<Olivebirdy> That's the beauty of it, they can all go 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong so I can ignore them.'
<Olivebirdy> :)
<Teller|GM> That's a sort of forced ignorance though, is it not?
<Lacks> Well, there's nothing wrong with worldbuilding if you enjoy it, of course.  My longest-running D&D game has a really detailed setting that the players have only seen a small amount of, at this point.
<Lacks> Just gotta realize that it should generally come second to the stuff necessary to make the game work.





<Olivebirdy> You know, I might actually do the WD Israel!
<Olivebirdy> :D
<Olivebirdy> It's so coool
<Olivebirdy> Mm, Cauldron is not going to be very active at the time I want to do the first set, but in general, they would be in favor of an Islamist mutinational cape group, yeah?
<Wildbow> They're in favor of large groups in general
<Olivebirdy> And also in favor of Israle surviving?
<Olivebirdy> For you know, general stress.
<Olivebirdy> Triggers, whatnot.
<Olivebirdy> What's the general chance Scion intervenes in any given conflict?
<Olivebirdy> Eh, one sec.
<Olivebirdy> Right, so would he act to end wars, or just to end one thing?
<Wildbow> Yes
<Olivebirdy> Say, I have a battle between Israel and the PLO. What chance is there that Scion rolls in and stops the battle?
<Wildbow> Depends
<Olivebirdy> 001%?
<Olivebirdy> How big the battle is?
<Wildbow> I honestly wouldn't bring scion into WD at this point
<Olivebirdy> How many people have heard of it--
<Olivebirdy> Hm.
<Olivebirdy> Alright, guess I won't 'roll 1d100 for Scion appearance'.
<Olivebirdy> Ugh. “Just five years after Scion’s first appearance the superheroes emerged from the cover of rumor and secrecy."
<Olivebirdy> Does this mean no paras start triggering until then?
<Wildbow> They trigger, they just exist in the background as isolated incidents.
<Wildbow> not really interacting with other capes
<Olivebirdy> Ah, that's fine. I just make 'em rare.
<Olivebirdy> It's actually better for my first real GMing.
<Wildbow> Might be a little dry though
<Olivebirdy> I have so much I can do, though. :)
<Olivebirdy> Well, sort of.
<Olivebirdy> If I can't find something fun to do in the middle of a civil war...





<Olivebirdy> Oh god, I'm so bored
<soulpelt|> mhm
<Olivebirdy> Panth, run a game~
<soulpelt|> go work on that Israel campaign, Olive.
<Olivebirdy> Well, that is interesting, admitted.
<Olivebirdy> Hm,
<panth> And toxic personality. Heh.
<panth> I run no games, Olivebirdy
<Mazinja> Blar. I wanna get in a game <:[
<panth> I have a Let's Read and a PMMM quest to maintain that already consume time
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<Olivebirdy> :<
<soulpelt|> panth: hence why I went Cartel this time around. Toxic personality + laser based Tinker = PAIN
<panth> The PMMM quest in particular, being a Gamer crossover, has necessitated five spreadsheets and four word documents to keep track of /everything/
<Olivebirdy> Fun, eh?
<panth> soulpelt|: I don't think you being in the cartel will make things easier XD
<panth> Olivebirdy: oh, it's fun
<soulpelt|> plus as a cartel member I'll always be active within the last 12 hours. :D
<soulpelt|> eh I wanted something else besides PRT
<panth> Heh
<panth> I actually decided to make it so my guy doesn't know he's a cape yet
<soulpelt|> (join ussss Panth)
<panth> He'll be more predisposed to join the PRT of course, but if you guys can make a convincing argument...
<soulpelt|> (we can get you super EbolAIDS.)
<panth> Remember though he's Middle-Eastern
<lostavocado> Hey are you still free to run a session olive?
<panth> ME dude in a Mexican cartel hahaha
<panth> Though I'm quite liking his skill spreadout
<panth> Not great with range, but get within melee and he's a bruiser.
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<soulpelt|> Think I'll need to have Bungee be both
<soulpelt|> bit of ranged bit of melee
<panth> Yeah, Cure specialises a bit more
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<Dol|ZzZ> Hi Char
<ErisMaenad> Howdy Gwennles!
<Dol|ZzZ> That's definitely a new one! Ha
<ErisMaenad> Adele's Hello was definitely worth the three year wait. My friend sent me a torrented version ten minutes ago, and I've been playing it on repeat.
<Dol|ZzZ> The album?
<ErisMaenad> It was a single.
<ErisMaenad> It is a single.
<Dol|ZzZ> ohhh
<Olivebirdy> oooh, gwennie.
<Dol|ZzZ> Hello, Olive
<Olivebirdy> :)
<Olivebirdy> Hi
<Olivebirdy> Excuse me a sec.
<Olivebirdy> Soulpelt you asshole, you sent me on a wiki-walk!
<soulpelt|> welcome
<Olivebirdy> I've got 10 wikipedia articles open!
<Olivebirdy> ><
<Dol|ZzZ> No way, Spelt being a jerk?
<ErisMaenad> Spelt is nothing if not angelic,
<Olivebirdy> (Nah, he was being nice)
<soulpelt|> :P
<ErisMaenad> Well we didn't specify if he was fallen...
<ErisMaenad> Ollie, Satan is attractive apparently
<Olivebirdy> And I know more about arab nationalism, socialism, the Baath, PLO, Fatah...
<Olivebirdy> Lebanon War, Black September, Jordan...
<Olivebirdy> xP
<ErisMaenad> Share, I know close to nothing of my israeli/middle eastern heritage!
<Olivebirdy> Um, hm.
<Olivebirdy> You can join my game when I make it :)
<ErisMaenad> Coolio
<Olivebirdy> There's a lot.
<Shemetz> A lot of what?
<Olivebirdy> HIstory, philosophy, splinter groups.
<Olivebirdy> Politics, of course.
<Olivebirdy> I think what I'm going to do, is make a mess of Trigger Events specifying what alignment you have.
<Olivebirdy> You were stabbed in Tel Aviv, you were interred at a refugee camp, recruited by Black September and now you are hunted, being shot at by the opposing army...
<Shemetz> recruited by the Black Panthers you mean?
<Olivebirdy> And a mess of wild card triggers.
<Shemetz> = normal triggers?
<Olivebirdy> Yep.
<Olivebirdy> No, Black September.
<soulpelt|> I would keep the number of players low, Ollie
<Olivebirdy> Were part of the PLO, splintered off.
<Olivebirdy> Er.
<Olivebirdy> They were part of Fatah, which was part of the PLO.
<Olivebirdy> They tried to make a cout de etat is Jordan, overthrow King ...Abdullah?
<Olivebirdy> Were exiled from Jordan, went mostly to Lebanon.
<Olivebirdy> Every group has a history, a philosophy, a name.
<Olivebirdy> This is going to be so muh fucking fun.
<Olivebirdy> "D
<Dol|ZzZ> Marvelous
<Olivebirdy> And this is only 80's Lebanon/Israel!
<Olivebirdy> I could do a whole other game for the 90's, the 00's.
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<Luna> Oh fun.
<Olivebirdy> The Entities must loooove Israel :D
<Olivebirdy> Well, the Middle East... crap.
<Olivebirdy> Hoo boy, more research!
<Luna> Africa could be a gold mine as well :D
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<Olivebirdy> (Because I need to look into the other conflicts going on then)
<soulpelt|> I would ask 'bow if he can give some info on the situation in the middle east
<soulpelt|> I know Big B fucked up their oil fields.
<Olivebirdy> He talked to me a while ago.
<soulpelt|> what'd he say?
<Olivebirdy> Yeah, B got some oil fields.
<Olivebirdy> He told me to remember Cauldron will have a stake in the whole thing.
<Olivebirdy> I think they would just keep sides from winning conclusively.
<Olivebirdy> They want conflict, conflict means more capes.
<Olivebirdy> Hm..
<soulpelt|> There would obviously be a Cauldron Shadow Broker type person
<Olivebirdy> They would attempt to make some sort of large organization.
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<Shemetz> not necessarily
<Dol|ZzZ> Hey Teller
<Shemetz> Maybe many small idependent ones
<Olivebirdy> It's what they do, Shem.
<Teller> Hey Dol.
<soulpelt|> ayyyyy Teller
<Olivebirdy> Their MO.
<Teller> Morning all.
<ErisMaenad> The feminine of Bastard should be Bastardess.
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<Olivebirdy> I can't see a Arab Nationalist/Socialist organization accepting Israeli capese.
<Olivebirdy> We're too Western.
<Olivebirdy> So, if Cauldron manages to build an Arab coalition of capes, they would try to bolster Israel to keep conflict going.
<Olivebirdy> Selling lots of vials to Israel, getting the Suuits involved.
<Shemetz> I don't think so
<Shemetz> about the Suits
<Olivebirdy> Of course, there's  a balancing effect. Worse things get for Israel, more triggers needed.
<Shemetz> Suits = Europe, right?
<Olivebirdy> And happen.
<Olivebirdy> Yep. They have an international arm.
<Olivebirdy> Not sure when they were founded....
<Luna> Apropos campaigns. How's Paris going ErisMaenad?
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<Shemetz> Israel is too self-centered / independent / whatever to allow the Suits to do anything there
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<Olivebirdy> ...
<Olivebirdy> Thank you Shem, I shall now disregard your opinion,
<Shemetz> Thank you
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<Olivebirdy> seeing as Israel has no problem accepting foreign aid.
<ErisMaenad> Good, Luna, I'm letting people trigger and work on their capes with the limited information I give them.
<Olivebirdy> Shem, seriously, there's a pan-Arab nationalist cape group (being torn apart by internal stuff) and Israel won't accept foreign aid?
<Shemetz> Foreign aid of *people*?
<Olivebirdy> Explain.
<Shemetz> AFAIK Israel mostly gets weapons and funding and possibly tech, right now
<Shemetz> Right now isn't 20 years ago, but it should be similar enough, I think?
<ErisMaenad> Seele_01 has Nephil done, Lostavocado is nearly done with Firebrand.
<Olivebirdy> Nope.
<ErisMaenad> Luminifera has attempted to start her new cape.
<Luna> Interesting setup!
<Shemetz> What sort of involvement were you imagining?
<Olivebirdy> See, Israel has a history of attempting to get aid, weapon deals, oil from euopean Countries.
<Olivebirdy> Weapons, submarines, ships, planes.
<Luminifera> yup eris
<Luminifera> :)
<Luminifera> bye now
<ErisMaenad> bye now
<Olivebirdy> (It also has a history of embarrassing countries that default)
<Dol|ZzZ> Farewell, Lumi
<Shemetz> Weapons, submarines, ships, planes
<Shemetz> but people?
<Olivebirdy> Of course?
<Shemetz> Non-Jewish people?
<Luna> Adiez Lumi
<Olivebirdy> Yep.
<Shemetz> Haven't heard of any soldiers from other countries helping Israel in any war
<Shemetz> Haven't heard as in...no famous names, heros, dead soldiers
<Olivebirdy> So, you haven't heard of the 1972 war?
<Olivebirdy> *3
<Shemetz> Yom Kippur?
<Olivebirdy> That was when Egypt closed the Suez canal.
<Olivebirdy> Yep.
<Olivebirdy> I think, top of my head, that Brits and French and us went against Egypt.
<Olivebirdy> US and Israel do a lot of joint training.
<Shemetz> browsing Wikipedia right now...US gave israel tons of supplies
<Olivebirdy> If a country wants antiterroism training? They come to Israel.
<Shemetz> no soldiers participating, though
<Olivebirdy> Paras are Law Enforcement.
<Olivebirdy> Be the same as UN Peacekeeping, and likely as effective.
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<Olivebirdy> Well, Law Enforcement != UN Peacekeeping, but you get the idea.
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<ErisMaenad> Gaah, when can we finish your session
<Olivebirdy> Suits hang out along the border.
<Pink> Parahumans vary widely enough that it is hard to pigeonhole them.
<Shemetz> I don't get why Israel needs extra cape support from other countries
<Olivebirdy> Eris, do mine!
* AceOfSpade catch the apples and eat them because hey, free apples
<Shemetz> Dense country and more than the average amount of conflict
<Pink> Twist- they are horse apples.
<Olivebirdy> Like I said, the worse it gets, the more triggers,
<Shemetz> Which is why Israel doesn't need help
<AceOfSpade> I'm free, we can play right now
<Olivebirdy> but still, they are very outnumbered...
<Olivebirdy> Hmmm
<Luna> Eris throwing apples....
<Olivebirdy> Arab Nationalism went down after the Six Day War.
<Luna> ... and no one comments on it?
<Shemetz> Israel is the strongest military force, definitely
<Shemetz> Maybe the palestines would get extra support, but from other arab countries
<AceOfSpade> Luna, it's alright as long as they aren't golden
<Luna> Huh. True. So you're golden then ^^
<Olivebirdy> Well, I'm sure they would.
<Shemetz> But I have no idea about their relations with other arab countries, so... no idea
<Olivebirdy> Saudi, Muslim Brotherhood from Egypt, if they are existant.
<Shemetz> "Muslim Brotherhood" = "The Muslim Brothers"?
<Olivebirdy> And yes, if Cauldron gets together a Parahuman Pan-Arab(sorta) Group?
<Olivebirdy> Yep.
<Olivebirdy> Then the Arab Nationalism rises.
<Olivebirdy> Arab Nationalism rises, supported by a very large parahuman base? Israel is fucked.
<soulpelt|lab> Israel would have their own stuff, no doubt
<Shemetz> ^
<Olivebirdy> Yes, there will be more triggers, but do you think Israel won't ask for political support?
<Shemetz> And they still got much better equipment, control of the area, tech
<Olivebirdy> Thus, Suits.
<Shemetz> And why would the Suits want to help?
<Olivebirdy> Cauldron wants them to.
<Shemetz> Why would they want to get involved in that mess?
<Shemetz> The suits, I mean
<Olivebirdy> Cauldron wants two things.
<soulpelt|lab> I suspect Israel would have a higher parahuman-to-Baseline ratio
<Shemetz> Cauldron definitely doesn't need the suits to participate
<Olivebirdy> One, Israel's survival, because Israel causes triggers in all directions.
<Shemetz> Cauldron is the one that gives both sides more vials
<Shemetz> And controls both governemnts at least a little bit
<Olivebirdy> Two, a very large parahuman group, consisting of many Middle Eastern countries.
<Shemetz> Is exactly what Cauldron already wants?
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> Cauldron wants two things.
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> One, Israel's survival, because Israel causes triggers in all directions.
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> Two, a very large parahuman group, consisting of many Middle Eastern countries.
* ErisMaenad has first dibbs on joining
<Olivebirdy> Now, I am cosidering how this plays out.
<Olivebirdy> I think the numbers say that Israel is outclassed.
<Shemetz> I definitely disagree
<Shemetz> even without the Suits
<Olivebirdy> MEaning, Israel needs foreign support.
<Olivebirdy> Either Cauldron, Suits, PRT, US, or all of the above.
<ErisMaenad> Unlikely the later ones
<Olivebirdy> Eh.
<Olivebirdy> Depends on how the Cold War plays out.
<soulpelt|lab> US maybe
<Luna> You're setting works on the premise that there'd be a greater arabic coalition, OB. Which is a dubious premise.
<Shemetz> Israel has control over the country, they literally have walls surrounding Gaza and pretty strong military in every city or around it
<Olivebirdy> I know it's dubious.
<Olivebirdy> Why, are you talking about Israel vs Gaza?
<Olivebirdy> I'm not.
<Shemetz> Israel VS palestines inside Israel, no?
<Olivebirdy> Luna, yes, it's dubious.
<Olivebirdy> No.
<ErisMaenad> I'd put money on a combination of, Cauldron/Suits and possibly a foreign party not involved in the Cold War majorly.
<Shemetz> You're talking about Egypt and Jordan and syria?
<Olivebirdy> The entire Middle East, SHem.
<Olivebirdy> Mostly Israel, because that's what I know.
<Olivebirdy> I'm going to brach out from here.
<Olivebirdy> SO.
<Olivebirdy> LUNA
<Olivebirdy> <Luna> You're setting works on the premise that there'd be a greater arabic coalition, OB. Which is a dubious premise.
<Luna> Aye!
<Olivebirdy> True!
<Olivebirdy> Very true.
<Luna> Which I think was something Shem didn't take into account. But... okay?
<Shemetz> Yeah
<Olivebirdy> However. A) There is already a arab nationalistic philosophy.
<Shemetz> I thought arab countries weren't exactly friendly with each other
<Olivebirdy> Saying all arabs should work together.
<Luna> Ahhhh.
<Olivebirdy> Shem, that is also true.
<Shemetz> How strong is it, though?
* AceOfSpade is now known as Ace|Evilution
<Luna> Well. Infighting, thy name is Middle-East.
<Olivebirdy> The Arab nationalistic philosophy took a hit with the death of Nasser, and with the quick defeat of the secular, nationalistic Jordan, Syria, and Egypt, in the Six Day WAr.
<Shemetz> What's different between the situation IRL right now and the situation in Worm? All countries get pretty much the same percentages of capes, more or less. Why would they all band together against israel?
<Olivebirdy> Goddamn it Shem
<Olivebirdy> Let me fucking talk
<Shemetz> I'm letting you, I'm just also speaking during it
<Olivebirdy> Okay?
<Shemetz> go ahead, yeah
<Olivebirdy> Great.
<Olivebirdy> Okay.
* ErisMaenad pats Shem and Ollie on the head
<Olivebirdy> With the powers, smaller groups can get more say. Look at the Empire
<Shemetz> Empire?
<Ace|Evilution> !roll 1d6+2 dodge
<O\\\O> Ace|Evilution> Rolled 1d6+2 (4): 6 < Tagged "dodge"
<Olivebirdy> I am going to look into the smaller groups, see what they want.
<soulpelt|lab> E88 shem
<Olivebirdy> E88
<ErisMaenad> !roll 1d6+1 Fire
<O\\\O> ErisMaenad> Rolled 1d6+1 (3): 4 < Tagged "Fire"
<Shemetz> Ah, yup
<ErisMaenad> Roll for stealth AceOfSpade
<Olivebirdy> But, seeing as Cauldron wants a Pan Arab Group, and the fact that Israel is probably not invited...
<Shemetz> Why does Cauldron suddenly want that? Why does everyone agree to this?
<Ace|Evilution> !roll 1d6+2 stealth
<O\\\O> Ace|Evilution> Rolled 1d6+2 (3): 5 < Tagged "stealth"
<Shemetz> Cauldron wants conflict, but they don't just rally every single nation on earth to war
<Olivebirdy> And the fact that Arab Nationalism is an actual philosophy that is brought down by tribalism and other stuff.
<Olivebirdy> Shem.
<Shemetz> 6-day war, yom kippur war, both happened before Scion
<Olivebirdy> Cauldron has had a hand in making all the big groups.
<Olivebirdy> Yese, I know.
<Shemetz> so arab nationalistic phylosophies should be any stronger or weaker
<Olivebirdy> *shouldn't
<Shemetz> I agree that small terrorist groups will be more powerful
<Olivebirdy> Yes, I know.
<Luna> I'd leave Cauldron out of it. Maybe a proxy team of powerful capes who may or may not be sponsored by Cauldron? A good thinker at the right place - and bingo.
<Shemetz> But I disagree that any country, as a whole, will suddenly start a war with another
<Olivebirdy> Also small Cristian groups, small Haredi groups
<Shemetz> Yup
<Olivebirdy> <Shemetz> But I disagree that any country, as a whole, will suddenly start a war with another
<Olivebirdy> ?
<Olivebirdy> Eh?
<Shemetz> What you were saying is that most middle eastern arab countries fight against Israel, no?
<Olivebirdy> Luna: Could be that is all that Cauldron needs.
<Olivebirdy> No.
<Shemetz> Heavily support palestines?
<Olivebirdy> Yes.
<Shemetz> The countries, or just other extremists in said contries?
<Olivebirdy> Both.
<Olivebirdy> More cooperation.
<Olivebirdy> Hmmm
* Dol|ZzZ has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
<Olivebirdy> In name only, or not....
* Vern (uid111218@brockwell.irccloud.com) has joined
<Olivebirdy> Shem, there will obviously be a lot of tension within the countries, and between them.
<Shemetz> They should have a lot of infighting, in my opinion. Religious fights within them, more small groups, less cooperation between groups in the same country
<Olivebirdy> I don't doubt, how- Yes, exactly.
<Shemetz> The more advanced/rich/powerful a country is, they cooperate better. See US, europe, africa for the opposite
<Shemetz> also north korea, I guess?
<Olivebirdy> <Olivebirdy> Shem, seriously, there's a pan-Arab nationalist cape group (being torn apart by internal stuff) and Israel won't accept foreign aid?
<Olivebirdy> Note the parentheticals.
<Olivebirdy> I know what I'm doing :)
<Shemetz> I'm saying Israel won't need it
<Shemetz> I think ISrael is just strong enough to withstand it on their own
<Olivebirdy> Look at a map sometime.
<Olivebirdy> Sorry Shem, I'm being snippy
<Olivebirdy> If it turns out Israel doesn't need it, they won't get aid, okay?
<ErisMaenad> Codename ideas for Lumi's cape? https://docs.google.com/document/d/15qWQ6mXMfOHSa17IqSyxXHiNrW5lJtaRvFKz09T8ILo/edit#
<_> [ lumi cape #2 - Google Docs ] - docs.google.com
<Olivebirdy> If they do, then lots of groups have an interest in helping out.
<Luna> A small country, beset on all sides by enemies, rife with inner struggle. A superficially peaceful pan-arabic coalition. Burning oil fields. Suits called in, but what is Europe's stake -exactly-? Sounds like a lovely and interesting setup.
<Olivebirdy> IKR :D
<Luna> No matter whether you agree on Israel accepting help or not :D
<ErisMaenad> Poor Israel
<Olivebirdy> I want to set up a Cauldron-sponsered group.
<Olivebirdy> Or two.
<Shemetz> Israel has an army, one that the citizens *must* join for a while in their lives
<Shemetz> A constantly maintained army
<ErisMaenad> If they were smart, they wouldn't accept help from any country, but instead they would accept it from a neutral organization, like the Suits.
<Olivebirdy> Yes, I know. I gave up three years of my life for it.
<Shemetz> The armies of other nations don't really compare, as they haven't had to fight for their survival for quite a while
<Olivebirdy> Wow, you think the Suits are neutral?
<Olivebirdy> ...
<ErisMaenad> No, but they're immune to any nation.
<Olivebirdy> Shem, what was the Gulf War?
<ErisMaenad> They're definitely swayed by Cauldron, but they're not affiliated with any country.
<Olivebirdy> What caused it?
<Olivebirdy> Now, if you want to say that you meant after the coalition...
<Olivebirdy> ?
<Olivebirdy> Eris, they are affiliated with the EU.
<Olivebirdy> EU is not neutral.
<Shemetz> Inter-middle-east wars, one country versus another, have there been any lately?
<Olivebirdy> YEp.
<Olivebirdy> One sec.
<Shemetz> Iran-Iraq?
<Olivebirdy> 1991, definitely.
<Olivebirdy> Yep.
<Ace|Evilution> Mmmm gold statue and a guardian projection... I feel like there is a term for exactly that... a name that would fit to a T... but I can't remember it...
<Olivebirdy> Iraq-Kuwait
<Olivebirdy> ISIS, of course.
<Olivebirdy> Saudis kind of outsource their wars, sending their kids elsewhere.
<Olivebirdy> When was the Armenian Massacre/Genocide?
<Olivebirdy> Darfur was in Africa, yeah?
<Luna> Lumi's name: I know! Some kinda greek myth, I would think.
<Shemetz> armenian massacre was ~1910, I think?
<Olivebirdy> So yeah, Shem. Iran-Iraq going on for about a decade.
* Foxtail has quit (Quit: )
<Olivebirdy> Then the Gulf War happened.
<Shemetz> Eris - "house-bred him"?
<Shemetz> Like, he had puppies?
<Olivebirdy> I did not realize, that Arab Nationalism was replaced by Islamist philosoph.
<Olivebirdy> *y
<ErisMaenad> Did I say, Housebred...
<ErisMaenad> Redact, sorry, not sure why I added that.
<Shemetz> :P
<Shemetz> Sounds like a pretty neat trigger
<Olivebirdy> Meaning, same multi country ideal, but this time, it's for Muslim countries, not just Arab ones.






Pop! Chart - 07/28/2017
You have written nothing olive
I'M ON TO YOU OLIVE
Olivebirdy - 07/28/2017
So, I have no idea what sort of peace deal if any there'd be with the Palestinians  and Israelis, but I'd be focusing on Jerusalem.
I made an exhaustive list of groups that Vern made me delets.(edited)
claudythoughts - 07/28/2017
wow, mean Vern
Olivebirdy - 07/28/2017
Reality is complex, and so is poitics!
Doctor_Mod - 07/28/2017
Are you writing Worm Middle East?
or some kind of OC verse?
Olivebirdy - 07/28/2017
Simplifying so that I'm not swamped with opposing groups is probably a good idea, but it's really dissatisfying.
Worm Jerusalem.
I'm thinking teeager gang war.
Doctor_Mod - 07/28/2017
Oh wow
that sounds neato.
We get practically nothing about the ME.
even from WoG
Olivebirdy - 07/28/2017
Like, Jerusalem is where they all show up and act out, while the military and the police try to kick them out because their going to ignite the political/religious situation
'bow stays away from religion
Doctor_Mod - 07/28/2017
fair nuff
Olivebirdy - 07/28/2017
I identified the main groups.
Sensei of Trashfic - 07/28/2017
13+ groups whose movements you need to keep track of in a setting is not viable to run fam.
Olivebirdy - 07/28/2017
I knooooow
but it still breaks my heart to leave them out
There's the religious groups that are each trying to 'protect' the Temple Mount from each other.
You've go the Israel Arsim who will occasionally beat up Arabs and people who get in their way. They're into the whole clubbing scene. Religious, they help out the Religious Zionist group.
You've got the assorted acting-out groups.
Each denomination has these tight rules and roles, of course you'd have rebels.
You have the IDF, where the parahumans are meant to sign up.
You'd have suicide bomber parahumans, the ones unstable enough that either go terrorize by themselves or that Hamas decides aren't worth keeping.
You'd have the city on the brink of exploding, because why the fuck are these fuckheads doing this in literally the worst place to do it?
But I don't have a plot.
Doctor_Mod - 07/28/2017
Sounds real interesting
and TENSE
like you can cut it with a spork
Olivebirdy - 07/28/2017
I was thinking that it could start with the action, the first session has the 'Defenders of the Temple' trying to take it over.
But then everything would explode. Is that a good thing?
Holy shit, I'm good enough at the geography that I could write a siege.(edited)
Verrrrrn
come yell at me more
Sensei of Trashfic - 07/28/2017
tsk
I recommend you run some one shots
take a small slice of your setting
A siege could be possible, an Israeli soldier who during a firefight develops powers
a Palestinian rebel who triggers as he's being bombed
Doctor_Mod - 07/28/2017
I can yell at you Olive
Sensei of Trashfic - 07/28/2017
I recommend you grab Faustus
Or perhaps Wellwick
Just do
Olivebirdy - 07/28/2017
Faustus or Wellwick why?
Sensei of Trashfic - 07/28/2017
Good players
Good GMs
Faustus offers good criticism
Wellwick is new enough to help you out with things
🔔Magnitude🔔 - 07/28/2017
אתה חייב לכלול מקרה 53 שבצורת פרה אדומה
Suipe - 07/28/2017
I recognize some of those symbols!
Olivebirdy - 07/28/2017
Huh. That would kinda makes sense. The Red Cow could be a powerful symbol.
You probably just recognize the aleph.