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  1. Snow 2017-11-20 02:13PM
  2. Hey man,
  3. like mute
  4. 159 Responses
  5. Report abuse
  6.  
  7. Snow 3 hours ago
  8. Sara advised that I talk to you about being called out, privately, and clear the air a bit!
  9. Snow 3 hours ago
  10. Straight up, man, there isn't much that grinds my gears more than victim-posturing, which something that a lot of your idle conversation referring to Hakkyuu's 'hard times' keeps rubbing off as.
  11. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 hours ago
  12. ...victim-posturing?
  13. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 hours ago
  14. (unsure)
  15. Snow 2 hours ago
  16. (unsure) yeah! or, that's what it rubs off as?
  17. Snow 2 hours ago
  18. Like, man, Kell's had intense consequences. That fucker literally died.
  19. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 hours ago
  20. I don't think it's unreasonable to say, yes, Hakkyuu has seen the person he cares about most getting literally gutted, had someone die in his arms, and is watching some generally bad shit go down.
  21. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 hours ago
  22. But Hakkyuu, ICly, has kept this stuff to himself.
  23. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 hours ago
  24. So I may be confused about where and what you're taking about--but feel free to point me to what you mean.
  25. Snow 2 hours ago
  26. Thank you for being understanding and giving me the moment to express myself.
  27. Snow 2 hours ago
  28. Talking specifically about the party nonsense ---
  29. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 hours ago
  30. Hm. I see.
  31. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 hours ago
  32. tbh Snow, that's not victimhood. That's me stating that, yes, I am still seeing impacts of that party--it's one of the things that is being used to make Kell and Hakkyuu's bad rep travel right now.
  33. Snow 2 hours ago
  34. But 'made a faux pas'
  35. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 hours ago
  36. It's an IC fact and I won't pretend it's not there.
  37. Snow 2 hours ago
  38. He had an NPC advise him to cool his jets; he didn't.
  39. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 hours ago
  40. No, he didn't, because of unclear OOC information.
  41. Snow 2 hours ago
  42. What was unclear, precisely?
  43. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 hours ago
  44. I mentioned this months ago, we didn't agree on it. It's fine. But it is still impacting him IC and it's tiring OOCly, tbh.
  45. Snow 2 hours ago
  46. /waves a hand
  47. Snow 2 hours ago
  48. Let me be utterly clear. The consequences Hakkyuu have suffered post party gaffe are the result of him going in cocked and loaded, then refusing to modify his behavior after IC advice,
  49. Snow 2 hours ago
  50. and after OOC clarifications that he didn't even need to be there if he was so opposed even to the notion.
  51. Snow 2 hours ago
  52. The issue I take with statements like 'still feeling the effects of a faux pas months ago' isn't the 'feeling the effects' part,
  53. Snow 2 hours ago
  54. But the minimizing of Hakkyuu's willing participation in creating his own situation.
  55. Snow 2 hours ago
  56. Does that make sense? To me, it feels like... creating a narrative which absolves Hakkyuu of responsibility. Which may not at all be what you're doing, and which is why I wanted to clarify my position.
  57. Snow 2 hours ago
  58. I don't like hounding you, which I know must feel what it comes off as. I feel like a friend of yours who's a cop, who keeps having to say when you bring up the awful accident you were in a few months ago,
  59. Snow 2 hours ago
  60. 'well, it's also true that you caused the auto collision'
  61. Snow 2 hours ago
  62. only after months of piping up with the same thing, is sighing and reaching for a beer,
  63. Snow an hour ago
  64. 'yeah, that goddamn collision that you caused, jesus. '
  65. Snow an hour ago
  66. Because I feel that you're not treating the event honestly and with due accountability. And it's my position to be that accountability, for everyone, to ensure that people oocly don't walk away with misconceptions which affect how they play.
  67. Snow an hour ago
  68. And that was all very long-winded, and I really apologise, I know your work has been ridiculous.
  69. Snow an hour ago
  70. tl;dr -- I feel that you're communicating something you don't intend that has me feeling exhaustedly consistently like a meter-officer writing tickets and has you exhaustedly collecting tickets. I wanted to communicate why I have this instinct so that, moving forward, we can both modify ourselves a little to mutual benefit.
  71. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  72. And to me it honestly feels like I can't discuss my own character and what he's impacting without you, or FC tbh, jumping to snipe at me.
  73. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  74. You also can't say "he was warned in the party" in a thread with multiple written things going on at the same time.
  75. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  76. We're not all sat at a table
  77. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  78. This is a written format
  79. Snow an hour ago
  80. I... pardon?
  81. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  82. "He had an NPC advise him to cool his jets; he didn't."
  83. Snow an hour ago
  84. Please forgive me if I'm misremembering, but as well as I recall --
  85. Snow an hour ago
  86. I had Derimus talk to Kell to ask him to cool off,
  87. Snow an hour ago
  88. and Antheia speak to Hakkyuu to do the same
  89. Snow an hour ago
  90. So, not just ambient writing, but a direct scene and conversation with Hakkyuu.
  91. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  92. Yes, which was going on at the same time as I was having other threads.
  93. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  94. But I said above, we talked about this months ago and I kind of don't want to rehash it.
  95. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  96. But I will not recant that he is still feeling the effects of that party, because he is--it one of the points being raised to extend his and Kell's bad reputation.
  97. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  98. But beyond that, ICly, he has rolled with all these punches.
  99. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  100. He hasn't spoken back to anyone.
  101. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  102. He has listened, he has taken steps to do things he didn't want to.
  103. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  104. He has kept himself relatively in check, but the impacts are still being felt.
  105. Snow an hour ago
  106. Again, I'm really not asking that you recant the impacts, or denying them,
  107. Snow an hour ago
  108. They're absolutely, utterly there.
  109. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  110. I also have to say that I have NOT been saying much about the party at all and I think you're conflating things that I've said with othres.
  111. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  112. I haven't been in the chat channel much at alll.
  113. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  114. I have not been making many plurks to talk before the last two weeks and each one, honestly, is getting me some weird slap on the wrist for things unrelated to the party because I am not playing the world's smallest violin here.
  115. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  116. If you can show me where I'm consistently doing these things beyond Fai-player's plurk, that's fine, but for the most part I am consciously sticking to myself.
  117. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  118. With the consistent experience that when I step out I am told to step back.
  119. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  120. And that's exhausting and disheartening.
  121. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  122. Especially when I'm trying, despite the frustration and my workload, to stay present and relevant and active.
  123. Snow an hour ago
  124. I hear you. I promise, I do. That's... why I wanted to talk, because I know it's got to be frustrating, and,
  125. Snow an hour ago
  126. stepping back is neither good for you or your character, and I don't want this to be a source of frustration.
  127. Snow an hour ago
  128. And I want to clarify again, that I'm really not at all arguing that Hakkyuu has suffered consequences! He absolutely has, and they've been not great.
  129. Snow an hour ago
  130. To say the absolute least.
  131. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  132. But that is not how you started this. You came in here telling me he was victim-posturing and that Kell was the one who had reason to not Hakkyuu.
  133. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  134. Do you not see how that is, frankly, damn insulting?
  135. Snow an hour ago
  136. /exhales slowly
  137. Snow an hour ago
  138. I said that I felt that you were victim posturing.
  139. Snow an hour ago
  140. And also that I felt that it's not what you're trying to do, or communicate.
  141. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  142. Then why are you bringing this up and where else am I doing it when I'm barely present OOCly for commentary, period?
  143. Snow an hour ago
  144. I realize it's insulting. But I'm here in the interest of communicating honestly and openly, letting you know how I feel and why I feel that way, so that from a place of better understanding we can move forward more productively.
  145. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  146. Yes, but show me the pattern, not a single instance.
  147. Snow an hour ago
  148. If that would be helpful to you, I'm happy to.
  149. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 an hour ago
  150. Please.
  151. Snow 43 minutes ago
  152. Alright! Linking things as I find them when doing calls.
  153. Snow 43 minutes ago
  154. https://i.imgur.com/UxTLBbV.png
  155. Snow 42 minutes ago
  156. ^ Hakkyuu's behavior was in part why people were feeling the need to cozy up??
  157. Snow 41 minutes ago
  158. just a lot of this plurk,
  159. Snow 41 minutes ago
  160. https://www.plurk.com/p/mhuc9t
  161. Snow 40 minutes ago
  162. But, for some specific pull quotes,
  163. Snow 40 minutes ago
  164. https://i.imgur.com/60wA9qg.png
  165. Snow 39 minutes ago
  166. ^ Hakkyuu wasn't shunned because of not trusting Irkalla, but because his behavior at the feast was perceived to be dangerous
  167. Snow 39 minutes ago
  168. Again, it's just a... pattern, of minimizing Hakkyuu's influence on his own position
  169. Snow 37 minutes ago
  170. Or that's what it feels like, from my perspective. Would you like me to keep getting direct quotes?
  171. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 36 minutes ago
  172. These are not signs of victomhood, Snow. These are expressions of why he is not thrilled with the hypocritical actions and opinions going on ICly and I am honestly worried to know that you're conflating "this is what Hakkyuu's take is and why he's reacting this way"
  173. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 36 minutes ago
  174. With "omg life is so harrrrrrd for Hakkyuu and he is suffering so much! Bawww" victim-posturing
  175. Snow 36 minutes ago
  176. I think you're misunderstanding, a little.
  177. Snow 35 minutes ago
  178. When I say victim-posturing, I mean that you don't seem to be demonstrating, contextually, that he had a hand in creating the situations he is experiencing.
  179. Snow 34 minutes ago
  180. I don't feel that you're unrealistically exaggerating what he's going through!
  181. Snow 34 minutes ago
  182. I feel that you're not demonstrating that he bears some responsibility. Does that make sense? I'm really trying to be precise, and not... continue our trend of miscommunication!
  183. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 26 minutes ago
  184. In a word, I disagree. I have consistently, ICly and OOCly, had Hakkyuu own his shit and you can't on the one hand talk about how harsh and hard the setting and it's characters are then get frustrated when those things are being discussed and brought up like this.
  185. Snow 25 minutes ago
  186. Again, I'm not frustrated that you're bringing up his consequences,
  187. Snow 25 minutes ago
  188. But feel that you don't OOCly contextualize his predicament with his involvement with it. Those quotes, and the thing this morning, are just a few instances when I've felt the need to provide that context for you.
  189. Snow 24 minutes ago
  190. I know that it's not what you're intending to communicate, which is why I'm here, speaking with you.
  191. Snow 23 minutes ago
  192. And telling you that... I feel you're communicating things you don't intend, consistently enough that it is not just affecting our ooc interactions,
  193. Snow 23 minutes ago
  194. but your experience with the game and other players.
  195. Snow 22 minutes ago
  196. And I want to work through that in a way that's helpful and productive, and yields a positive improvement all around!
  197. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 21 minutes ago
  198. And yet no-one else I talk to OOCly seem confused about where I'm coming from in these instances of commentary.
  199. Snow 20 minutes ago
  200. I'm not confused, Ghost.
  201. Snow 19 minutes ago
  202. And I don't think anyone else is. I think that you've been giving me, and other people, a certain impression that you really don't intend to be giving. Which is what I'm trying to help you see?
  203. Snow 19 minutes ago
  204. But-- I know you're frustrated, and feeling unheard.
  205. Snow 18 minutes ago
  206. It was communicating how I felt to Sara that even had me think that you might not realize how you sometimes come off, and what prompted me to try and speak with you.
  207. Snow 18 minutes ago
  208. I really encourage you to share the log of this with her? She's... been really invaluable to me, at least, and knows how I feel, and might be able to help you understand my point in a way I clearly can't communicate.
  209. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 16 minutes ago
  210. Honestly, whatever point you are trying to make is not landing to me.
  211. Snow 16 minutes ago
  212. I know. :-(
  213. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 16 minutes ago
  214. What I am getting is that you think I am talking about Hakkyuu in detextualised ways.
  215. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 16 minutes ago
  216. But you linked to something about why Hakkyuu was shunned in a context where he was ACTIVELY listening and not making excuses. So immediate change and willingness to listen.
  217. Snow 16 minutes ago
  218. I.... pardon?
  219. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 16 minutes ago
  220. Are you sure it's me who is the one who is decontextualising, Snow?
  221. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 15 minutes ago
  222. The things you linked to above as examples of this on-going behaviour that you're trying to make me aware of.
  223. Snow 14 minutes ago
  224. Ghost... Maybe you're misremembering, but Hakkyuu did not listen immediately?
  225. Snow 14 minutes ago
  226. Or try to remedy the situation, immediately?
  227. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 14 minutes ago
  228. Are you talking about the party
  229. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 14 minutes ago
  230. Or the aftermath?
  231. Snow 14 minutes ago
  232. I'm taking about the shunning comment.
  233. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 14 minutes ago
  234. Because the examples you are linking? Relate to the immediate aftermath (ie., with Symon) where he WAS listening and willing.
  235. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 14 minutes ago
  236. NOT the party itself.
  237. Snow 14 minutes ago
  238. He was NOT listening or willing?
  239. Snow 13 minutes ago
  240. You may want to re-read the thread?
  241. Snow 13 minutes ago
  242. And that meeting happened after a lot of other IC backlash had already occurred.
  243. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 13 minutes ago
  244. You know what.
  245. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 13 minutes ago
  246. I think you misread what I do with Hakkyuu consistently.
  247. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 12 minutes ago
  248. Yes, Snow, he was willing with Symon
  249. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 12 minutes ago
  250. "What do you need, Symon?"
  251. "I'm not making excuses."
  252. "Let me tell you where I'm coming from, but I'll take your advice."
  253. Snow 12 minutes ago
  254. ...... Ghost,
  255. Snow 12 minutes ago
  256. "What do you need, Symon?"
  257. Snow 12 minutes ago
  258. "Write a letter of apology."
  259. Snow 12 minutes ago
  260. "No."
  261. Snow 11 minutes ago
  262. It took several comments and a lot of ooc exhaustion,
  263. Snow 11 minutes ago
  264. before he agreed to write the damn letter.
  265. Snow 11 minutes ago
  266. If he were willing, he would have just agreed. That thread would have been three comments long.
  267. Snow 11 minutes ago
  268. And that thread happened after a good bit of other IC fallout,
  269. Snow 10 minutes ago
  270. and then after it you didn't get with me about him actually writing the letter for, what, a week? two weeks? I don't recall precisely how many days but I can go back and look.
  271. Snow 10 minutes ago
  272. In the thread with Symon, Hakkyuu relented, but only after resisting.
  273. Snow 9 minutes ago
  274. And I was not the second, third, or fourth person to be baffled by it.
  275. Snow 9 minutes ago
  276. Your subsequent treatment of that situation that he was ready and willing has been no less baffling.
  277. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 7 minutes ago
  278. This is... so insulting, Snow.
  279. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 7 minutes ago
  280. He gave reasoned explanations on why he was resistant
  281. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 7 minutes ago
  282. "I wasn't planning on it--apologising that is. And not because I'm too proud or whatever. I just figured it would seem as utterly, transparently disingenuous and actually antithetical to the goal at this stage. I was planning on making right by doing what I'm actually good at, which isn't playing nice at parties and to delicate nobles."
  283. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 6 minutes ago
  284. "So y'know what? Letters of apology are actually fine. I can do that, and I will. My reservations were based on logic for how it'd look, not out of some pig-headed petulance. If you're convinced this is the game to play then I'll trust your judgement and I'll put it to paper. That's not an issue to me"
  285. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 6 minutes ago
  286. Willingness does NOT mean bending the moment someone says to and honestly this is now coming across as he was wrong for not just nodding and saying "Yes, Symon, you're right."
  287. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 5 minutes ago
  288. And that is not the character I am playing.
  289. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 5 minutes ago
  290. So this consistently feels more and more like you don't like Hakkyuu's IC actions
  291. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 5 minutes ago
  292. But trust me
  293. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 4 minutes ago
  294. I know he is resistant and prickly, but it would be OOC for Symon to walk in, tell Hakkyuu to do something he is fundamentally and politically opposed to and have him immediately agree
  295. Snow 4 minutes ago
  296. Ghost, his reasoned explanation was utterly counter-intuitive to what he even learned at the fete.
  297. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 4 minutes ago
  298. So he gave his take on things, was not angry, was not shitty
  299. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 3 minutes ago
  300. Again, this sounds like you do not like him as a character
  301. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 3 minutes ago
  302. And that's fine
  303. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 3 minutes ago
  304. You are not obligated to
  305. Snow 3 minutes ago
  306. /rubs face
  307. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 3 minutes ago
  308. But your dislike of his actions should not be reason to come and tell me off in OOC commentary in plurks.
  309. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 minutes ago
  310. And if you are trying to communicate something else here, I having a very hard time identifying it.
  311. Snow 2 minutes ago
  312. I am. Please, just take the log of this to Sara.
  313. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 2 minutes ago
  314. I will do that.
  315. Snow 2 minutes ago
  316. Thank you very much.
  317. Snow 2 minutes ago
  318. Again, I really apologise that I can't seem to communicate myself clearly to you,
  319. Snow a minute ago
  320. But, tl;dr --
  321. Snow a minute ago
  322. I feel that you are often communicating things you do not intend, oocly.
  323. Snow a minute ago
  324. They make me feel the need to correct you and often offer context, which is as unfun for me as it is for you.
  325. 【ＳＨＡＤＯＷＳＴＥＰＳ】 just now
  326. You may be doing the same.
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