Shooting corpses and desyncs

[16:05] <@Thelo> wow, I accidentally found a trivia about Army of Two vs "Asian values"
[16:05] <@Thelo> in AO2, when you kill an enemy, his corpse stays around in ragdoll
[16:05] <Sotek> oh dear
[16:05] <@Thelo> so you can shoot the corpse and it moves around
[16:05] <Sotek> oh ... dear
[16:06] <@Thelo> with Asian values though, you can't shoot corpses, because that's disrespectful
[16:06] <@Thelo> can only shoot live people
[16:06] <Sotek> wow
[16:06] * FlakManiak21 (bent@A92C20C2.799986EE.47E55A58.IP) has joined #sirlin
[16:06] <CWheezy> wow
[16:06] <CWheezy> so what did they do
[16:06] <Stone> please show respect and only kill the living person
[16:06] <@Thelo> so the asian values build is patched so that the corpses are invulnerable to bullets and can't be moved around
[16:06] <evizaer> sharpobject: new jai talk is up
[16:06] <@Thelo> BUT there exists multiplayer
[16:06] <Sotek> oh no
[16:07] <Sotek> what happens if you have an asian values build against a western values build?
[16:07] <Sotek> or uh
[16:07] <Sotek> not against, I guess
[16:07] <@Thelo> and if asian values shoot a corpse and there's a decadent imperialist around, or vice-versa, that would desync
[16:07] <Sotek> "would"
[16:07] <evizaer> decadent imperialist
[16:07] <@Thelo> and that's why they block asian values and imperialists from matchmaking each other.
[16:08] <Shiri> desync
[16:08] <Shiri> great
[16:08] * FlakManiak2 (bent@A92C20C2.799986EE.47E55A58.IP) Quit (Ping timeout: 183 seconds)
[16:09] <evizaer> desync
[16:09] <evizaer> wow
[16:09] * FlakManiak21 (bent@A92C20C2.799986EE.47E55A58.IP) Quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
[16:09] <~Sirlin> is that fake?
[16:09] <@Thelo> source: http://www.joystiq.com/2008/03/12/ea-explains-army-of-twos-regional-lockout/
[16:09] * FlakManiak2 (bent@A92C20C2.799986EE.47E55A58.IP) has joined #sirlin
[16:10] <@Thelo> « We can't say these explanations will come as much as an appeasement to gamers -- especially not with the likes of Halo 3 and Gears of War lodged in the same genre -- but with American foreign policy growing more insular every day, who really wants to game with other countries anyway? »
[16:10] <Shiri> wait, but why are european and american separated...let's see
[16:11] <Shiri> oh, just networking.
[16:11] <Shiri> that's a bad excuse.
[16:11] <Shiri> thanks.
[16:11] <Shiri> the asian thing is funny at least.
[16:11] <@Thelo> yeah. the asian thing was more interesting
[16:12] * FlakManiak21 (bent@A92C20C2.799986EE.47E55A58.IP) has joined #sirlin
[16:12] <Sotek> good god flak
[16:12] <FlakManiak21> The amount I'm disconnecting is unreal. I know.
[16:12] <Sotek> what is going -on- there
[16:12] <Sotek> is someone dancing on the router?
[16:12] <@Thelo> did he just hsoot a corpse
[16:12] <~Sirlin> A
[16:13] <FlakManiak21> I guess it's just a lot of connections right around here; I'm not at my room or anything and ther are tons of other students with laptops around. And maybe the internet sucks in this building.
[16:13] * FlakManiak2 (bent@A92C20C2.799986EE.47E55A58.IP) Quit (Ping timeout: 185 seconds)
[16:14] <Shiri> surely the desync would only be "in" the movable corpses anyway though, right?
[16:15] <Shiri> because they don't have any effect on anything except being physics-modelled
[16:15] <@Thelo> sure they do, they intercept bullets
[16:15] <Shiri> so that desync wouldn't roll over onto anything that actually - ah
[16:15] <Shiri> could you get "behind" one? :S
[16:15] <@Thelo> and they interact with other physics objects which also intercept bullets, etc.
[16:15] <Shiri> I guess over sufficiently long distances and at the right angle
[16:15] <Shiri> ah
[16:16] <@Thelo> yeah the usual case is when you have two enemies in line with you
[16:16] <@Thelo> and you shoot a volley, where bullet #3 kills the first enemy, then bullets #4, #5, #6 are intercepted by the ragdoll before it moves out of the way
[16:16] <@Thelo> then finally bullet #7 can start hitting the enemy behind
[16:16] <CWheezy> dishonrable
[16:16] <Shiri> that is a pretty weird asian value. I wonder how come they're fine with zombies but not skeletons
[16:17] <@Thelo> or with shooting live people
[16:17] <Shiri> ha
[16:17] <Shiri> that'd be a fine thing for them to be against, now wouldn't it
[16:17] <@Thelo> it'd be + consistency points, at least
[16:17] <FlakManiak21> Wait which game is this?
[16:17] <@Thelo> Army of Two
[16:17] <@Thelo> game I worked on in a previous life
[16:17] <Shiri> some ancient shooter
[16:18] <~Sirlin> I think live people are not that powerful. They're just pawns that a government can control. But a dead person being shot could affect their ghost, which has supernatural powers.
[16:18] <FlakManiak21> And wait why do <<Asian Values>> come into it?
[16:18] <@Thelo> backlog
[16:18] <Thelobot> http://thelo.ca/chat/2015-03-11.txt
[16:18] <Shiri> http://www.joystiq.com/2008/03/12/ea-explains-army-of-twos-regional-lockout/
[16:19] <Shiri> they don't like skeletons, or corpses apparently, being damaged, probably for the reasons sirlin just said
[16:19] <Shiri> don't want to anger the uhngry ghosts
[16:19] <Shiri> hungry*
[16:19] <lettucemode> they probably sync'd using the entire game state anyway
[16:19] <Shiri> so in wow that results in them covering up all the skeletons with flesh, like reverse victorians
[16:19] <Shiri> and in this it results in invincible corpses that prevent them being matched with decadent imperialists
[16:19] <lettucemode> so it'd be more work to leave certain parts out
[16:20] <@Thelo> yeah
[16:20] <Shiri> hmm, is that how they normally do it
[16:20] <Shiri> ?
[16:20] <@Thelo> "they"
[16:20] <Shiri> I don't think it is in other genres, right? otherwise you would have the entire gamestate on your comp
[16:20] <Shiri> so it could be hacked
[16:20] <@Thelo> console shooters using UE3 use that kind of questionable lockstep networking I think
[16:20] <Shiri> like in diablo 3, famously
[16:21] <lettucemode> you usually add up all the variables in the game state, get one number, then send that over to the other player(s)
[16:21] <Shiri> or infamously
[16:21] <lettucemode> if the numbers don't match up, then desync
[16:21] * FlakManiak21 (bent@A92C20C2.799986EE.47E55A58.IP) Quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
[16:21] <@Thelo> but more modern shooters, like Unreal 1, use prediction / rollback
[16:21] <~Sirlin> lol
[16:23] <lettucemode> desync bugs are the worst
[16:23] <@Thelo> yes