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matthew: Fez Investor, Creator of Judging Software Interview

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  1. Sep 07 14:33:52 <mattheww_>     yeah Flashbang was a studio I ran for a little under 10 years (most of our work was up at blurst.com)
  2. Sep 07 14:33:52 <RogueStar>     but
  3. Sep 07 14:33:56 <RogueStar>     CONFLICT OF INTEREST
  4. Sep 07 14:34:14 <Montie>        Matt, who are you
  5. Sep 07 14:34:17 <RogueStar>     why is your software used for the jury pool, ina contest where you have one of your investments running?
  6. Sep 07 14:34:20 <pace_maker>    Wegned
  7. Sep 07 14:34:29 <pace_maker>    Wegner
  8. Sep 07 14:34:29 <badnews>       https://twitter.com/Livelyivy/status/508718839287541760
  9. Sep 07 14:34:29 <badnews>       jesus these bitches
  10. Sep 07 14:34:29 <Albel> matthew: It's a very serious implication, to be sure. I don't know that you yourself were implicated but I think the whole of IndieFund as a group
  11. Sep 07 14:34:38 <yetsturdy>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJihi5rB_Ek
  12. Sep 07 14:34:48 <Araf>  Okay then, could you state what are the ties between people involved in IGF, in indiefund and indiecade? mattheww_
  13. Sep 07 14:34:50 <RogueStar>     Mattheww : did you make the IGF Jury software, for nominations cycle?
  14. Sep 07 14:34:55 <mattheww_>     why?  because I’m good at writing web software and was contracted to do it because I’m familiar with the process
  15. Sep 07 14:34:56 <zocram>        mattheww_: mind tweeting?
  16. Sep 07 14:35:02 <Araf>  And why Edmund said it was all fucked up
  17. Sep 07 14:35:19 <RogueStar>     mattheeww : not implicating you in ethics, but it does bring conflict of interest man.
  18. Sep 07 14:35:23 <Montie>        This whole thing is too deep
  19. Sep 07 14:35:30 <RogueStar>     your software, is used to judge one of your investments.
  20. Sep 07 14:35:35 <Montie>        We need to directly expose people
  21. Sep 07 14:35:36 <Albel> Personally, I think any contest or convention can get mucked up in bureaucracy and internal politics after running as long as something like IGF has
  22. Sep 07 14:35:37 <pace_maker>    So what's your 'official statement' ? That all of it is bull?
  23. Sep 07 14:35:40 <RogueStar>     that brings conflict of interest man.
  24. Sep 07 14:35:47 *       CyclopsCaveman has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  25. Sep 07 14:35:47 <mattheww_>     one sec, let me clear my other chats if this is going to actually engage me
  26. Sep 07 14:35:55 <RogueStar>     Thanks matthew
  27. Sep 07 14:35:59 <Albel> much appreciated
  28. Sep 07 14:36:13 *       bububu (~bububu@5575BFFA.9085BDAC.DC119D06.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  29. Sep 07 14:36:16 <z0x80> can we verify mattheww_ first
  30. Sep 07 14:36:18 <mattheww_>     zocram:  updated profile on https://twitter.com/mwegner
  31. Sep 07 14:36:25 <RogueStar>     Matheww : ill chat privately if you want.  I was part of the investigation
  32. Sep 07 14:36:32 <ejehardenberg> says hi zocram in twitter
  33. Sep 07 14:36:35 <ejehardenberg> confirmed.
  34. Sep 07 14:36:36 <mattheww_>     I’m happy to answer any questions
  35. Sep 07 14:36:42 <Montie>        Matheww, who are you again
  36. Sep 07 14:36:44 <pace_maker>    No private shit anymore
  37. Sep 07 14:36:45 <zocram>        Thanks
  38. Sep 07 14:36:47 <Montie>        I would like to ask a few
  39. Sep 07 14:36:50 <pace_maker>    Matthew wegner
  40. Sep 07 14:36:57 <mattheww_>     https://twitter.com/mwegner — profile there covers it too
  41. Sep 07 14:37:03 <RogueStar>     Mattheww : does your software run the IGF nominations process?
  42. Sep 07 14:37:16 <mattheww_>     roguestar: the first part of the process
  43. Sep 07 14:37:20 <mattheww_>     so let me explain that first I guess:
  44. Sep 07 14:37:23 <RogueStar>     Thank you.
  45. Sep 07 14:37:23 <Araf>  mattheww_: Okay then, could you state what are the ties between people involved in IGF, in indiefund and indiecade? And why did Edmund from Team Meat state in a radio show that the judging system was broken?
  46. Sep 07 14:37:29 <mattheww_>     IGF gets 600 entries (plus maybe 300 more for student), and has everal hundred judges
  47. Sep 07 14:37:49 <mattheww_>     judges are assigned random games, can play games outside their assignments (up to a limit)—assignments are mostly to ensure all games get a minimum # of votes
  48. Sep 07 14:38:00 *       Hotstarr (~disposan@Rizon-D0C71DF2.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) has left #burgersandfries
  49. Sep 07 14:38:03 <badnews>       https://twitter.com/Phildo211/status/508723593174589440
  50. Sep 07 14:38:03 <Montie>        Mattheww_ Do you think that there has been an overall industry coverup?
  51. Sep 07 14:38:06 *       Hotstarr (~disposan@Rizon-D0C71DF2.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com) has joined #burgersandfries
  52. Sep 07 14:38:07 *       rizonanon (~rizonanon@Rizon-EB722580.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  53. Sep 07 14:38:09 <badnews>       now they're trying to downplay it
  54. Sep 07 14:38:14 <Araf>  Which team was it who said most of their judge didn't play for more than 5 mn?
  55. Sep 07 14:38:15 <RogueStar>     Matheeww : ive heard it was a anonymized and randomized system.
  56. Sep 07 14:38:18 <Thidran>       Stop badnews.
  57. Sep 07 14:38:18 *       Cyberserker sets ban on *!*@Rizon-4C64CC08.sd.sd.cox.net
  58. Sep 07 14:38:24 <Cyberserker>   .k RogueStar
  59. Sep 07 14:38:24 *       GeorgeWashington has kicked RogueStar from #burgersandfries (Requested)
  60. Sep 07 14:38:26 <badnews>       "yeah, but think about THE BIG FAT CATS AT WALLSTREET"
  61. Sep 07 14:38:27 <mattheww_>     I actually tweeted this out in a response to a question this morning, which is the intro video for judges: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8SPvJBtJ-Q&feature=youtu.be
  62. Sep 07 14:38:30 <maximumtacos>  thank you cyberserker
  63. Sep 07 14:38:33 <maximumtacos>  can you also explain to albel
  64. Sep 07 14:38:36 <mattheww_>     no, isn’t anonymized
  65. Sep 07 14:38:36 <maximumtacos>  that he is only a halfop
  66. Sep 07 14:38:37 <maximumtacos>  pls
  67. Sep 07 14:38:47 <herochao>      araf 2 teams reported findings where judges had hardly played their games
  68. Sep 07 14:38:55 *       hihihi_ (qwebirc@BFB5D57B.AC1D6346.B598C9B5.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  69. Sep 07 14:38:56 <mattheww_>     so the point of the judging phase is for judges to help filter games from the 600 down to strong contenders in each category (art, audio, etc)
  70. Sep 07 14:38:56 <Araf>  Yeah, we needto ask that
  71. Sep 07 14:38:57 <Araf>  Why
  72. Sep 07 14:39:07 <Cyberserker>   The second I came on he PM'd me saying "he's not a sperg anymore I promise"
  73. Sep 07 14:39:10 <Tickle>        http://i.4cdn.org/v/1410124777086.gif
  74. Sep 07 14:39:11 <Cyberserker>   I am the law
  75. Sep 07 14:39:12 <mattheww_>     maybe 25% of IGF entries are pretty crappy—newbie devs, or early projects, or whatever
  76. Sep 07 14:39:16 <maximumtacos>  cyber
  77. Sep 07 14:39:24 <Albel> YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW
  78. Sep 07 14:39:24 <maximumtacos>  swap albels and my channel permissions
  79. Sep 07 14:39:24 <maximumtacos>  ;3
  80. Sep 07 14:39:24 <mattheww_>     judges can comment on games (to each other, usually to debate something)
  81. Sep 07 14:39:26 <Cyberserker>   No
  82. Sep 07 14:39:28 <Albel> maximumtacos: you were right, I'm sorry
  83. Sep 07 14:39:34 <Albel> I can be the bigger man :v
  84. Sep 07 14:39:35 <mattheww_>     or can leave private feedback for entrants (emailed out at the end), or private feedback for jury members
  85. Sep 07 14:39:46 <maximumtacos>  >mfw Albel is one of Roguestars headmates
  86. Sep 07 14:39:47 <mattheww_>     the JURY are groups of 15-20 people per category that actually determine the finalists
  87. Sep 07 14:39:51 <Albel> but really I wanted to focus less on the sperging and more on the current events
  88. Sep 07 14:39:57 <maximumtacos>  >mfw we are oppressing a kid with multiple personality disorder
  89. Sep 07 14:39:59 *       CreeperEsq has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  90. Sep 07 14:40:01 <mattheww_>     they have additional tools to sort games by various categories, etc etc
  91. Sep 07 14:40:13 <Montie>        mattheww_: Do you know of any examples of other webistes or devs asking judges to vote on them in exchange for anything?
  92. Sep 07 14:40:18 <mattheww_>     and they just discuss amongst themselves on a mailing list—they debate all kinds of shit
  93. Sep 07 14:40:19 *       Oniichan (~chatzilla@Rizon-4D979D5F.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #burgersandfries
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  95. Sep 07 14:40:34 <mattheww_>     maybe the art jury is talking about whether a game has strong execution or a novel art style, and how much of each is important, or whatever
  96. Sep 07 14:40:41 <Albel> maximumtacos: I said I'm sorry :v
  97. Sep 07 14:40:45 <mattheww_>     point being the discussion is pretty soft—I mean you can’t actually measure which game has the “best art"
  98. Sep 07 14:40:45 *       JohnTortellini (~saddam@Rizon-CBAB911A.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  99. Sep 07 14:40:53 <z0x80> shhh let mattheww_ talk
  100. Sep 07 14:40:55 <JohnTortellini>         
  101. Sep 07 14:41:13 *       Oniichan has quit ()
  102. Sep 07 14:41:14 <Albel> mattheww_: ultimately art is about expression and interpretation anyways
  103. Sep 07 14:41:14 <mattheww_>     the actual software system can’t influence this—I mean, I could set a game to +1000 votes in the system and the jury could look at it and go “meh, shadow/outline games are a dumb fad let’s talk about Game X” instead
  104. Sep 07 14:41:23 <Tickle>        I MADE THE BLOCKLIST GUYS
  105. Sep 07 14:41:27 <Montie>        https://twitter.com/Real_Politikal/status/508731760746971138
  106. Sep 07 14:41:28 *       Neptune|Away (Neptune@Rizon-40198B6C.zeta.elitebnc.org) has joined #burgersandfries
  107. Sep 07 14:41:29 <Albel> shhh tickle
  108. Sep 07 14:41:35 <mattheww_>     the finalist selection (and ultimately the winners) are the product of the juries
  109. Sep 07 14:41:38 <DarkHiero>     Tickle: Shut up.
  110. Sep 07 14:41:45 <Thidran>       Just a moment mattheww.
  111. Sep 07 14:41:49 *       Thidran sets mode +m #burgersandfries
  112. Sep 07 14:41:55 <mattheww_>     example of jury is here: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/206546/Influential_game_devs_join_IGF_2014s_jury_panels.php
  113. Sep 07 14:41:58 <Thidran>       Alright, if anyone has questions for mattheww, pm me.
  114. Sep 07 14:42:06 <Cyberserker>   We interview now?
  115. Sep 07 14:42:08 <Cyberserker>   Take it away
  116. Sep 07 14:42:18 *       hihihi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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  118. Sep 07 14:42:34 <Thidran>       Also, sorry for the delay.
  119. Sep 07 14:42:45 <mattheww_>     all of this IGF information is public info, by the way—it’s been covered in various places over the last few years, especially when this new backend was used in 2012 (for the 2013 festival)
  120. Sep 07 14:43:13 *       bluePZ has quit (Quit: Rizon webchat: http://qchat.rizon.net/)
  121. Sep 07 14:43:45 <mattheww_>     while we just idle here, it’s rad to see interest in IGF, although kind of a bummer it’s so tained and negative
  122. Sep 07 14:43:45 *       Thidran takes a moment to check potential questions.
  123. Sep 07 14:44:04 *       Chavez has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  124. Sep 07 14:44:20 <Thidran>       Alright, I guess I can start out with the obvious problem then.
  125. Sep 07 14:44:24 <Albel> mattheww_: I think a lot of the prevailing opinions we've heard from devs is that it's sort of a necessary evil
  126. Sep 07 14:44:26 <mattheww_>     IGF is a huge motivator for teams (and yeah, there’s a big debate amongst devs/judges about how much of the IGF should be a scholarship/spotlight to up-and-coming teams, versus a “best-of” showcase even if a game has already “made it”)
  127. Sep 07 14:44:32 <mattheww_>     the team meat clip that went around was more about that than anything
  128. Sep 07 14:44:39 *       Thidran nods.
  129. Sep 07 14:44:45 <mattheww_>     albel:  the potential conflict of interests being a neccesary evil?
  130. Sep 07 14:44:53 *       TanFlo (~TanFlo@Rizon-C37FFAD2.buckeyecom.net) has left #burgersandfries
  131. Sep 07 14:45:10 *       TanFlo (~TanFlo@Rizon-C37FFAD2.buckeyecom.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  132. Sep 07 14:45:13 <Albel> mattheww_: Basically. Someone I know told me that they basically have to go through things like IGF for the possibility of press but it's entirely possible things will fizzle out
  133. Sep 07 14:45:30 <Albel> it's very sad
  134. Sep 07 14:45:58 <Thidran>       mattheww: First question is from me: Can you elaborate on the conflict of interest allegation Silverstring Media and IGF, as mentioned in the indie-fensible video? If not, then I understand.
  135. Sep 07 14:45:59 *       Neptune|Away has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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  137. Sep 07 14:46:13 <Thidran>       If you need details of it, you are welcome to watch the video itself.
  138. Sep 07 14:46:26 <Thidran>       *between
  139. Sep 07 14:46:35 <mattheww_>     yeah I saw the older video
  140. Sep 07 14:46:44 <mattheww_>     I mean, unless someone was actually on the jury they have very little influence on finalists
  141. Sep 07 14:47:04 <mattheww_>     *I* have almost no influence on the finalists and I run the judging backend on my own servers (the jury talks on a mailing list)
  142. Sep 07 14:47:17 <mattheww_>     ryan clark talked about some of the specific accusations, sec
  143. Sep 07 14:47:23 <Thidran>       Sure thing.
  144. Sep 07 14:47:34 <Thidran>       One other important thing: Did anyone verify this guy is who he says he is?
  145. Sep 07 14:47:40 <Thidran>       I was busy with other spots.
  146. Sep 07 14:47:55 <Albel> wasn't he going to post a tweet or something?
  147. Sep 07 14:48:12 *       Neptune|Away (~Eclipse@Rizon-3002D254.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  148. Sep 07 14:48:27 <mattheww_>     http://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/2f8ey0/ever_wonder_why_your_game_didnt_win_igf_thats/ck84yui
  149. Sep 07 14:48:36 <mattheww_>     I appended “hi zorcam” to my twitter profile
  150. Sep 07 14:48:43 <mattheww_>     but one sec
  151. Sep 07 14:48:44 <Thidran>       Thank you.
  152. Sep 07 14:48:46 <Albel> got it
  153. Sep 07 14:49:17 *       Irock (~Irock@Rizon-BE526677.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  154. Sep 07 14:49:45 <mattheww_>     http://submit.igf.com/baf.txt
  155. Sep 07 14:50:26 *       SpareKesh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  156. Sep 07 14:50:28 <Albel> lol
  157. Sep 07 14:50:31 <Thidran>       Alright, question from Montie: Do you know of any examples of devs coming to judges or outside groups coming to judges and asking them to vote or talk positively about them in exchange for something?
  158. Sep 07 14:50:53 <Albel> mattheww_: I think we established that parts of the video were inaccurate and corrections were made
  159. Sep 07 14:51:09 *       Chavez (~Chavez@C636BEA.D518BA6E.7081B02F.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
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  161. Sep 07 14:51:13 <mattheww_>     I haven’t!  And honestly, it’s kind of the other way around—there’s another big debate with the IGF about whether we should keep including judge-to-entrant feedback or not
  162. Sep 07 14:51:21 *       buttseymore (~buttsseym@Rizon-4A93D524.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  163. Sep 07 14:51:28 <Albel> archive.today is broken
  164. Sep 07 14:51:31 *       Drinky_Kraw has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  165. Sep 07 14:51:36 <mattheww_>     lots of people enter games because they really want feedback on it as a game (and care less about actually winning, or don’t think they have a real chance)
  166. Sep 07 14:51:47 <Albel> That's sad.
  167. Sep 07 14:51:48 <mattheww_>     indies tend to take feedback from each other pretty seriously in parts
  168. Sep 07 14:51:54 >Thidran<       can i ask a question
  169. Sep 07 14:52:00 Usage: QUERY [-nofocus] <nick>, opens up a new privmsg window to someone
  170. Sep 07 14:52:02 <mattheww_>     the whole notion of critiquing each other, even harshly, is pretty valued
  171. Sep 07 14:52:08 <Albel> I mean, I really think that's sad that you have to shore up for a contest just to get critique on a game, but that's the world we live in I guess
  172. Sep 07 14:52:12 *       NaxSnax has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
  173. Sep 07 14:52:16 <mattheww_>     well the thing is you don’t
  174. Sep 07 14:52:23 <mattheww_>     there are sections on tigsource or whever that do critiques
  175. Sep 07 14:52:29 <Albel> right
  176. Sep 07 14:52:29 <mattheww_>     but the contest itself is kind of a critique
  177. Sep 07 14:52:44 <mattheww_>     if you submit your game and holy shit you’re a finalist, and the game isn’t anywhere near finished, maybe you should work on it
  178. Sep 07 14:52:47 <Thidran>       Alright, here's the next question: How do you handle conflicts of interest?
  179. Sep 07 14:52:48 <Albel> I'm no artist/gamedev so I suppose it's an outsider take on it
  180. Sep 07 14:52:50 <mattheww_>     Monaco was mentioned in the video
  181. Sep 07 14:52:56 <mattheww_>     but it was basically a prototype that got an IGF nod
  182. Sep 07 14:53:02 <mattheww_>     (and *then* was funded, other way around)
  183. Sep 07 14:53:34 *       mundanematt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  184. Sep 07 14:53:47 <mattheww_>     judges are asked to recuse themselves from the entire process if they’re heavily involved, and one of the rating options for a game is “can’t play; conflict of interesting” (in which case the system will assign to someone else so the # of scores isn’t hurt)
  185. Sep 07 14:54:02 <mattheww_>     there are literally hundreds of judges, and nobody at IGF if full-time, can only ask people to police themselves
  186. Sep 07 14:54:09 <Thidran>       And just to retreat the obvious: You're the maker of the voting software right?
  187. Sep 07 14:54:22 <mattheww_>     I guess people will point at the screen and go “ah ha!” to that, but again, developers respect each other and take this thing seriously
  188. Sep 07 14:54:39 <Thidran>       *retread
  189. Sep 07 14:54:57 <mattheww_>     yes, I wrote: http://youtu.be/y8SPvJBtJ-Q
  190. Sep 07 14:55:11 <mattheww_>     and again, it’s basically an upvote/filter system to seed the jury discussion for each category
  191. Sep 07 14:55:18 <mattheww_>     and jurors do the finalist selection and final winners
  192. Sep 07 14:55:24 <Thidran>       Alright.
  193. Sep 07 14:55:47 *       Buttermancer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  194. Sep 07 14:56:03 <Thidran>       Do you think that Judges with financial ties to game should be in the jury pool?
  195. Sep 07 14:56:05 <mattheww_>     happy to answer any questions on that process (and again, this is all been public forever—there are huge IGF threads on tigsource where it’s all explained)
  196. Sep 07 14:56:12 *       Lisker has quit ()
  197. Sep 07 14:56:19 <Thidran>       *games
  198. Sep 07 14:56:29 *       mamdev (~mamdev@top.heavy.adventure) has joined #burgersandfries
  199. Sep 07 14:56:29 *       GeorgeWashington gives channel operator status to mamdev
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  201. Sep 07 14:56:42 *       GeorgeWashington gives voice to mundanematt
  202. Sep 07 14:56:46 <mundanematt>   WTF I keep getting booted
  203. Sep 07 14:56:47 *       rizonanon has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  204. Sep 07 14:56:57 <Albel> mundanematt: secret hackers
  205. Sep 07 14:56:59 <Thidran>       Hey matt.
  206. Sep 07 14:57:03 <mamdev>        on steroids
  207. Sep 07 14:57:11 <mattheww_>     I mean the obvious answer there is no, serious conflicts of interest should be avoided—I’m sure some year we’ll see a big conflict appear, lots of indies are funding other indies in places
  208. Sep 07 14:57:15 <mundanematt>   I'm trying to read what matthew_ is saying. lol
  209. Sep 07 14:57:16 <Thidran>       Quiet time though, we're having a talk with mattheww_ here.
  210. Sep 07 14:57:25 <Thidran>       Alright.
  211. Sep 07 14:57:35 <mattheww_>     it’s intimidating to be a channel of hundreds!  I haven’t been on IRC this much since the 90s, ha
  212. Sep 07 14:57:35 *       buttseymore has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  213. Sep 07 14:57:41 <Thidran>       It's cool.
  214. Sep 07 14:57:46 <Thidran>       I put it +m for a reason.
  215. Sep 07 14:57:51 <Thidran>       So you wouldn't get flooded.
  216. Sep 07 14:58:01 <Thidran>       ...I am getting hit hard in the PM department though, so excuse my slowness.
  217. Sep 07 14:58:02 *       SpareKesh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  218. Sep 07 14:58:04 <mattheww_>     oh, I could handle the scroll—I spent my youth on efnet
  219. Sep 07 14:58:15 <Albel> lol
  220. Sep 07 14:58:20 <Thidran>       Next question: "Does the IGF have a policy for nominating judges who should recuse themselves from judging a game they have invested in."
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  224. Sep 07 14:59:16 <mattheww_>     there’s specific opt-out functionality for judges in the onramping process (where we collect hardware/platform info)
  225. Sep 07 14:59:17 <mamdev>        This is all a carefully orchestrated plan by EA to make themselves appear ethical by comparison
  226. Sep 07 14:59:30 <mamdev>        I'll be quiet now
  227. Sep 07 14:59:32 <mattheww_>     and a specific way to opt out of a random game assignment (without hurting the game’s average #s in the backend)
  228. Sep 07 14:59:40 <Thidran>       Alright.
  229. Sep 07 14:59:47 <mattheww_>     so I mean, I can answer the tech side of it there
  230. Sep 07 14:59:52 <Thidran>       Next question: "Is there a possibility that an anonymous IGF nominator could nominate a game where they have financial connections, such as being an investor and have profit sharing with a game being judged?"
  231. Sep 07 15:00:36 <mattheww_>     possible?  sure, I mean if a judge wants to hide information from the IGF we certainly don’t have the resources to investigate hundreds of judges’ connections to 600 entries
  232. Sep 07 15:00:46 *       Thidran nods.
  233. Sep 07 15:00:49 <Thidran>       Alright.
  234. Sep 07 15:00:53 <mattheww_>     but one upvote, or one passionately worded message to jury in any category really doesn’t do much
  235. Sep 07 15:01:06 <Thidran>       Fair enough.
  236. Sep 07 15:01:19 <Thidran>       Next question, from pace_maker: Why do igf took their sponsors page down
  237. Sep 07 15:01:34 <mattheww_>     I don’t think it is down?  http://igf.com/05sponsors.html
  238. Sep 07 15:01:46 <Albel> I think what was referred to that for a period some time ago the page showed no sponsors
  239. Sep 07 15:01:48 <mattheww_>     but if it was, probably IT nightmare (look at the source to igf.com, it’s like 8-year-old HTML)
  240. Sep 07 15:01:48 <Thidran>       It was down in the past.
  241. Sep 07 15:01:51 <Albel> This was explained as a glitch
  242. Sep 07 15:01:58 <Thidran>       Anyways.
  243. Sep 07 15:02:14 <Thidran>       Next question, from codeswish: how does a jury select a winner, does the group need to all agree upon a winner or is it a vote?
  244. Sep 07 15:02:30 <mattheww_>     by the way, zooming out a bit on IGF—I think it’s a huge oversstep to think IGF nomination influences sales at all
  245. Sep 07 15:02:33 <mattheww_>     it’s an approval voting system
  246. Sep 07 15:02:50 <mattheww_>     so you can vote for as many games as you want, game with most votes wins (or games with most votes are finalists)
  247. Sep 07 15:03:14 <mattheww_>     I’m actually not on the mailing lists, but from what I understand most juries play their cards pretty face up in the final voting phase
  248. Sep 07 15:03:23 *       ableist (qwebirc@Rizon-37450A9A.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #burgersandfries
  249. Sep 07 15:03:23 *       Thidran rubs his chin. "Alright.
  250. Sep 07 15:03:31 <mattheww_>     so it’s pretty clear who everyone intends to vote for and arguments are made back and forth as to why Game X is special in some category
  251. Sep 07 15:03:33 *       Drinky_Kraw (~BestCorn@hey.candyass.face.the.wrath.of.tha.ponys.rainbows.jabronie) has joined #burgersandfries
  252. Sep 07 15:04:17 <mattheww_>     I actually haven’t known the winners in advance over the last two years, which is kind of a relief (it’s really weird to talk to someone all week at GDC and know if they win or not on wednesday night)
  253. Sep 07 15:04:23 <Thidran>       Next question:  "What do you think about indie devs actively attacking their fans who support gamergate?
  254. Sep 07 15:04:23 <Thidran>       -
  255. Sep 07 15:04:30 <Thidran>       Oop, my bad for cutting you off.
  256. Sep 07 15:04:35 <mattheww_>     you’re good!
  257. Sep 07 15:04:57 <mattheww_>     before I answer that, I’d like to clarify I’m just trying to answer tech/process questions here
  258. Sep 07 15:05:11 <mattheww_>     I know this will probably be construed as “official IGF statements are made!” or whatever, but I’m just a dude
  259. Sep 07 15:05:22 <mattheww_>     and I do a lot of stuff, IGF contract programming two years ago included
  260. Sep 07 15:05:40 *       Arw has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  261. Sep 07 15:05:49 <mattheww_>     as to the attack, I think this splits it well:  http://kazerad.tumblr.com/post/96623862313/allegiance
  262. Sep 07 15:05:52 <Thidran>       That's okay.
  263. Sep 07 15:06:03 <Thidran>       We're here to get as much information as possible.
  264. Sep 07 15:06:04 <mattheww_>     What you’re seeing right now in GamerGate are these two ideas clashing. On one side, you have people saying “GamerGate is good because its stated goals are good”, and on the other side you have people saying “GamerGate is bad because its supporters are bad”. It’s raising the question of whether GamerGate is a group of people that can be judged by its members or, like feminism, a cause that anyone can join and which sho
  265. Sep 07 15:06:05 <mattheww_>     be judged by its stated ideals. It’s neat watching that pan out.
  266. Sep 07 15:06:06 <mattheww_>     that in particular
  267. Sep 07 15:06:14 *       Arw (~Arw@Rizon-53FE99C8.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #burgersandfries
  268. Sep 07 15:06:22 <mattheww_>     and it’s something both “sides” (which is kind of stupid), should be careful of
  269. Sep 07 15:06:26 <Albel> I feel like a guinea pig sometimes.
  270. Sep 07 15:06:38 <mattheww_>     lots of indie devs are super touchy because indie dev is kind of a depressing creative endeavor in the first place
  271. Sep 07 15:06:45 <Thidran>       True enough.
  272. Sep 07 15:06:48 <Thidran>       It's hard work to make a game.
  273. Sep 07 15:06:49 *       rizonanon (~rizonanon@Rizon-EB722580.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  274. Sep 07 15:07:15 <Thidran>       Again people: If you are PMing me for casual conversation, leave it for later. Only if you have questions.
  275. Sep 07 15:07:17 <mattheww_>     I poked Dan Adelman about getting irate too quickly this morning (long before this video thing): https://twitter.com/mwegner/status/508675593110437889
  276. Sep 07 15:07:29 *       ableist has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  277. Sep 07 15:07:35 <mattheww_>     it’s really easy to “respond” to gamergate by responding like you’re addressing the worst possible harasser
  278. Sep 07 15:07:40 *       immey (qwebirc@Rizon-6E600BA5.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  279. Sep 07 15:07:43 *       immey (qwebirc@Rizon-6E600BA5.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has left #burgersandfries
  280. Sep 07 15:07:53 <Albel> Thidran, can I ask a followup to this?
  281. Sep 07 15:07:56 <Thidran>       Yes.
  282. Sep 07 15:08:06 *       maybeialways (qwebirc@Rizon-6E600BA5.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  283. Sep 07 15:08:08 <mattheww_>     and I guess vice versa, to respond to critique anywhere with a bunch of pent-up frustration
  284. Sep 07 15:08:09 <Thidran>       After you, I'll be voicing temet for a question as well.
  285. Sep 07 15:08:40 <Albel> Matt: By that same token, I feel like a lot of people on the other "side" of this, the indie scene, look at us as tinfoily nutjobs. Is that really the case, at least from your standpoint? Are we just a bunch of rabblerousers with no discernable point?
  286. Sep 07 15:08:44 <Thidran>       Well, not really, but a question from temet.
  287. Sep 07 15:08:59 *       Cxietkenm has quit (Quit: how can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real)
  288. Sep 07 15:09:02 <mattheww_>     “us” is pretty opaque, for what it’s worth
  289. Sep 07 15:09:03 <Albel> I say "side" loosely.
  290. Sep 07 15:09:04 <mattheww_>     I think even here it is?
  291. Sep 07 15:09:13 <Albel> yeah. For lack of a better term.
  292. Sep 07 15:09:15 <mattheww_>     I’ve been lurking here on and off for about a week (not with this name)
  293. Sep 07 15:09:37 <mattheww_>     I don’t know if “nutjob” is the word, but there are elements that are grasping at straws
  294. Sep 07 15:09:42 <Thidran>       We're just a tiny splinter of the #GamerGate thing anyways.
  295. Sep 07 15:09:47 <mattheww_>     it’s pretty weird to be so connected to indie stuff and hear various names thrown about as kingmakers
  296. Sep 07 15:10:09 <mattheww_>     some people here are basically playing some kind of ARG, googling for connections and trying to find things
  297. Sep 07 15:10:26 <mattheww_>     like people show up and ask “are we still on silverstring and IGF? cool I’ll keep googling or try to redpill a dev or something"
  298. Sep 07 15:10:33 <mattheww_>     and I get that, as a fun sort of internet hobby
  299. Sep 07 15:10:33 <Albel> Unfortunately, a lot of the links are tenuous at best so that's where the request for transparency comes from
  300. Sep 07 15:10:39 <mattheww_>     but it’s weird who’s steering the ship
  301. Sep 07 15:10:47 *       ThePatriarch (~ThePatria@Rizon-56C51282.ncstate.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  302. Sep 07 15:10:49 <mattheww_>     I started lurking here because I was really curious what the underlying ire was coming from
  303. Sep 07 15:11:06 <Thidran>       Alright, next question from temet: "May I include the log of this Q and A in with the incoming video?"
  304. Sep 07 15:11:06 <mattheww_>     I was really hoping to see some kind of clear “…and that’s why games are $60 fucking dollars”, or “…and games are always late”, or “…we’re stuck in the same genres"
  305. Sep 07 15:11:11 <Albel> I wouldn't even call it "ire" from my standpoint, just...discomfort I guess? Anyways I'll shush now
  306. Sep 07 15:11:21 *       naeioun_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  307. Sep 07 15:11:39 <mattheww_>     I mean yeah go for it, just don’t contextualize me as some kind of official IGF (or official indie fund) or whatever response, just myself personally
  308. Sep 07 15:11:46 <Thidran>       It will be a bulk log.
  309. Sep 07 15:11:48 <mattheww_>     and those kind of “my opinions are my own” disclaimers are pretty iffy I guess
  310. Sep 07 15:11:59 <Thidran>       Alright.
  311. Sep 07 15:12:01 <mattheww_>     but at the same time I don’t expect any one person here to speak for a whole hashtag
  312. Sep 07 15:12:06 <Thidran>       Indeed.
  313. Sep 07 15:12:14 <Thidran>       This is an interview with you, and I am treating it that way.
  314. Sep 07 15:12:23 *       maybeialways has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  315. Sep 07 15:12:34 *       ofthewatertribe (qwebirc@Rizon-44B50708.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  316. Sep 07 15:12:42 *       Arw has quit ()
  317. Sep 07 15:12:48 *       Sikun has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
  318. Sep 07 15:12:51 <mattheww_>     sure, that’s fine!  (I like engaging personally)
  319. Sep 07 15:14:16 *       Arw (~Arw@Rizon-53FE99C8.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #burgersandfries
  320. Sep 07 15:14:22 *       thoughtsteal has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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  322. Sep 07 15:14:50 *       Thidran mutters.
  323. Sep 07 15:14:53 <mattheww_>     ha
  324. Sep 07 15:14:56 *       Thidran restarts good old firefox.
  325. Sep 07 15:15:03 <mattheww_>     muttering is good!
  326. Sep 07 15:15:04 <Thidran>       Ahh shoot, as I was going to save the confirmation, it crashed.
  327. Sep 07 15:15:07 <mattheww_>     I will mutter at those tweets
  328. Sep 07 15:15:08 *       Judge_Komarov (~Mujahadee@Rizon-7987BAD3.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net) has left #burgersandfries (Got shoah'd)
  329. Sep 07 15:15:13 <Thidran>       Could I get confirmtion once more from you?
  330. Sep 07 15:15:15 *       il_shitlord has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
  331. Sep 07 15:15:28 <Thidran>       I obviously believe you, but I'd like to keep proof on hand because of the obvious.
  332. Sep 07 15:15:30 *       divnr (~ArstanNec@Rizon-60BA574D.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  333. Sep 07 15:15:42 <mattheww_>     yeah, feel free to make this some kind of personal interview (as opposed to representing organizations)
  334. Sep 07 15:15:48 <mattheww_>     or do you mean the url proof?
  335. Sep 07 15:15:49 *       HonestSleep (~HonestSle@losing.sleep.losing.friends) has left #burgersandfries
  336. Sep 07 15:15:57 <Thidran>       I mean proof that you are who you say you are.
  337. Sep 07 15:16:04 <Thidran>       I believe you and all, just wasn't able to save it.
  338. Sep 07 15:16:05 <Thidran>       For later.
  339. Sep 07 15:16:15 <Thidran>       It was awful timing on firefox's end there. Heh.
  340. Sep 07 15:16:30 *       Gamera (gamera@Rizon-338476DF.cpe.vividwireless.net.au) has joined #burgersandfries
  341. Sep 07 15:17:02 *       Miruku (~LouisRoR@Rizon-2D479908.cable.virginm.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  342. Sep 07 15:17:05 <mattheww_>     yeah I just deleted it, sec
  343. Sep 07 15:17:13 <mattheww_>     http://submit.igf.com/baf.txt
  344. Sep 07 15:17:30 <Thidran>       Thanks.
  345. Sep 07 15:17:38 *       Broand (~chatzilla@F60E0E92.D7712F2E.6775CEDE.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  346. Sep 07 15:17:44 <Thidran>       Yeah, this wasn't exactly planned, so pardon my dust.
  347. Sep 07 15:18:01 <mattheww_>     no worries—I was lurking for a bit, figured I’d start talking
  348. Sep 07 15:18:13 *       ofthewatertribe (qwebirc@Rizon-44B50708.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has left #burgersandfries
  349. Sep 07 15:18:20 *       voodoochild has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  350. Sep 07 15:18:36 <mattheww_>     hopefully I don’t regret this for some stupid reason or anything (point being that the attitude here is pretty caustic to the point where people will go “seee??? what is he hiding that he will regret?!  he has regrets!!”)
  351. Sep 07 15:18:39 *       ofthewatertribe_ (qwebirc@Rizon-44B50708.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  352. Sep 07 15:18:44 <Thidran>       Heh.
  353. Sep 07 15:18:51 <Thidran>       Yeah, fair enough.
  354. Sep 07 15:18:51 *       voodoochild (~chatzilla@Rizon-734D840B.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  355. Sep 07 15:19:02 *       codeswish has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  356. Sep 07 15:19:04 <mattheww_>     also, “turn on themselves” is pretty ignorant of the IGF’s history
  357. Sep 07 15:19:09 <Thidran>       The IRC is free for everyone anyways.
  358. Sep 07 15:19:13 <mattheww_>     there are IGF controversies every year internally (internal to the indie developer community, I mean)
  359. Sep 07 15:19:14 <Thidran>       Been wanting more people to come in and actually talk.
  360. Sep 07 15:19:18 *       LankyLord (~LankyLord@6A60BC76:CD0A3F31:C07DC14C:IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  361. Sep 07 15:19:19 <Albel> Meh, I try to be moderate in how I see the players in this whole thing
  362. Sep 07 15:19:28 <mattheww_>     huge debates over scholarship-vs-merit, exposure, how experimental the IGF is, lack of interactive fiction, etc etc etc
  363. Sep 07 15:19:31 <mattheww_>     there’s something every year
  364. Sep 07 15:19:35 *       Thidran nods.
  365. Sep 07 15:19:46 *       LankyLord (~LankyLord@6A60BC76:CD0A3F31:C07DC14C:IP) has left #burgersandfries
  366. Sep 07 15:19:47 *       codeswish (~dan@Rizon-4AFC5162.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  367. Sep 07 15:19:58 <mattheww_>     the sky is always falling, and has been for years—but that’s because there are 600 entrants, which is probably representative of 1000 games that year
  368. Sep 07 15:20:10 <mattheww_>     that’s a lot of viewpoints, a lot of games, a lot of opinions about what games are and could/should be, etc etc
  369. Sep 07 15:20:10 <Albel> Quick followup?
  370. Sep 07 15:20:13 <mattheww_>     sure!
  371. Sep 07 15:20:26 <mattheww_>     I gave up on actually coding anything today when that video went up, heh
  372. Sep 07 15:20:37 *       Zero_1343 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  373. Sep 07 15:20:38 <Albel> Should we, as gamers, have any sort of voice in that do you think? Obviously we aren't professional critics, but still
  374. Sep 07 15:20:52 <mattheww_>     in the IGF, you mean?
  375. Sep 07 15:20:54 <Albel> not directly
  376. Sep 07 15:21:07 <Albel> obviously that would be too much of a quagmire
  377. Sep 07 15:21:19 <mattheww_>     in general, hell yes—I would love to see gamers have more voice with indie stuff
  378. Sep 07 15:21:26 <Albel> but at least some point where we the people who will inevitably consume the product get to get involved
  379. Sep 07 15:21:42 *       Alazred has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  380. Sep 07 15:21:45 <mattheww_>     I think that’s why teams like Tommy and Edmund have such a following, because they can talk directly with people (and Indie Game: The Movie helped a lot with making them seem like real people)
  381. Sep 07 15:22:03 <Albel> I would like to rebut that but it's a personal rebuttal and has nothing to do with this convo - it can wait until after the fact :v
  382. Sep 07 15:22:06 *       Albel shushes
  383. Sep 07 15:22:11 *       codeswish has quit ()
  384. Sep 07 15:22:26 <mattheww_>     I’d be curious about that rebuttal too!  I mean I’ve been making games for 10+ years and I’m pretty much an unknown
  385. Sep 07 15:22:39 <mattheww_>     it’s fascinating to see which personalities break out of the internet and into the “real world”
  386. Sep 07 15:22:42 <Albel> yeah but other people have questions and I don't want to monopolize them
  387. Sep 07 15:22:42 *       codeswish (~dan@Rizon-4AFC5162.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  388. Sep 07 15:22:45 *       Alazred (~admin@Rizon-C27CF28.rev.sfr.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  389. Sep 07 15:22:49 <mattheww_>     and fuck, the internet is a tiny bubble, #gamergate is a tiny bubble
  390. Sep 07 15:22:53 *       ofthewatertribe_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  391. Sep 07 15:22:56 <mattheww_>     while you’re pasting the next one!  on bubbles:
  392. Sep 07 15:23:10 <mattheww_>     I was at the dentist once, reading a Time magazine to kill time, and it was “the 50 most influential people in the world”
  393. Sep 07 15:23:11 <mamdev>        will the term 'indie' die like it did for music in the 90s when it got appropriated
  394. Sep 07 15:23:23 *       Anoyingmoose has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  395. Sep 07 15:23:31 <mattheww_>     top 10 were:  obama, celebrities doing big humanitarian work, etc etc, but like 20+ onwards were names I had literally never seen in print before (genetic scientists doing things, etc)
  396. Sep 07 15:23:35 *       HeadModOfV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  397. Sep 07 15:23:54 <Albel> they do a lot of digging for that list
  398. Sep 07 15:23:54 <mattheww_>     makes you realize that games are a tiny bubble at all (ask anyone on the street who made even Mario, right?), and that indie is a tiny bubble, and on downwards
  399. Sep 07 15:24:11 <Thidran>       Alright, next question is from temet: "What is your favorite programming language?"
  400. Sep 07 15:24:49 <mattheww_>     Favorite?  I always like the insanity of Perl.  Currently I’m working in Unity with C# (which is pretty standard for anyone in Unity—the other two don’t get much work)
  401. Sep 07 15:25:30 <mattheww_>     that’s not quite the hard-hitting question I was expecting!
  402. Sep 07 15:25:54 *       Thidran chuckles softly. "Not all of them are hard."
  403. Sep 07 15:25:55 *       Naiko (~Axistame@Rizon-646A9E5B.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au) has joined #burgersandfries
  404. Sep 07 15:25:59 *       Chavez has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  405. Sep 07 15:26:03 <Thidran>       I appreciate you taking the time out to talk to us though.
  406. Sep 07 15:26:10 <Thidran>       I know that you're a busy man.
  407. Sep 07 15:26:33 <mattheww_>     I might have to cook up some counter-questions myself
  408. Sep 07 15:26:44 <Thidran>       Indeed.
  409. Sep 07 15:27:02 *       OMF (~OMF@86CBCFE9.612F4364.1DFEE886.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  410. Sep 07 15:27:42 <Albel> What platforms are best for someone with no experience to make games?
  411. Sep 07 15:28:18 <mattheww_>     pretty much anything that makes sense to you, honestly
  412. Sep 07 15:28:26 <Thidran>       Alright, next question from Montie: "Do you think that Gamergate is changing the way journalists and devs work together"
  413. Sep 07 15:28:44 <mattheww_>     unity is a pretty common example today (full disclosure!  I’ve been using Unity since 1.x and have done contract work with them to help curate their own conference), but it’s also pretty deep and wide
  414. Sep 07 15:28:51 <mattheww_>     game maker is totally valid, and lots of cool stuff comes out of that
  415. Sep 07 15:29:00 <mattheww_>     and modding is way more rare today, but still a great inroad
  416. Sep 07 15:29:23 *       chamomile (~neugroove@jive.turkey) has left #burgersandfries
  417. Sep 07 15:29:45 <mattheww_>     depends on the devs—big AAA devs, maybe not so much, because they’re pretty well insulated from direct contact via publishers
  418. Sep 07 15:29:52 <mattheww_>     (at least, that’s my undestanding, but I’ve never held a AAA job)
  419. Sep 07 15:30:09 <mattheww_>     smaller teams, probably more so, but I’m still honestly unclear what was shaken so fundamentally with the outcry
  420. Sep 07 15:30:13 <mattheww_>     which I guess is a counter-question:
  421. Sep 07 15:30:24 *       Mastema has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  422. Sep 07 15:30:51 <mattheww_>     I get that journalistic integrity is a big calling card for the anger, and that trust was violated, but what did that trust actually mean in gaming press?  Like whether the new CoD franchise entry is actually any good with the new dev switch behind it, or something?
  423. Sep 07 15:31:02 *       Broand has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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  426. Sep 07 15:31:19 <mattheww_>     the point here about enthusiest press is really good about that (makes the point that game writers are already biased because they are people who love games, etc etc): https://medium.com/@upstreamism/to-fair-minded-proponents-of-gamergate-7f3ce77301bb
  427. Sep 07 15:31:27 *       Thidran nods.
  428. Sep 07 15:31:38 <mattheww_>     but honestly I’m pretty disconnected from games and gaming press these days
  429. Sep 07 15:31:41 <Thidran>       For me, it's more along the lines of being able to at least say where your bias is coming from.
  430. Sep 07 15:31:43 *       absolalone111 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
  431. Sep 07 15:31:49 <mattheww_>     like, most of my time is spent heads down on Aztez and hoping we can finish eventually and that it won’t totally tank
  432. Sep 07 15:31:53 <Thidran>       For instance, Patricia and Anna Anthropy.
  433. Sep 07 15:32:01 <mattheww_>     but there are two of us, so even if it’s a modest “okay” for a few years we’ll be able to pay rent for a bit
  434. Sep 07 15:32:03 <Thidran>       And her writing positive press and plugging her despite having lived with her.
  435. Sep 07 15:32:13 <Albel> I can agree with that. Being able to say "hey, I did this with this person so my views might be a bit slanted" isn't inherently bad; it's something that people need to know
  436. Sep 07 15:32:16 <Thidran>       Again, apologies for interrupting.
  437. Sep 07 15:32:17 <mattheww_>     if I were a 150-person AAA dev I’d probably be a lot more worried about strategy
  438. Sep 07 15:32:42 <mattheww_>     yeah, I do think more disclosures like that are totally appropriate!
  439. Sep 07 15:32:54 <mattheww_>     but for some pieces it’s almost irrelevant—like a “human story” piece about a personality
  440. Sep 07 15:33:05 *       Thidran nods.
  441. Sep 07 15:33:06 <Albel> fair
  442. Sep 07 15:33:19 <mattheww_>     I mean, to use indie game: the movie as an example, it wouldn’t matter if James and Lisanne were old childhood friends of everyone in that film or not
  443. Sep 07 15:33:22 <mattheww_>     it was was still interesting
  444. Sep 07 15:33:26 <Albel> Then you get into questions about where the lines blur between factual and opinionated journalism which is an entirely different beast
  445. Sep 07 15:33:38 <mattheww_>     but if they write an opinion piece about how Xbox One is doomed to failure, and they’re childhood friends with PS4 guys, then sure
  446. Sep 07 15:33:48 <mattheww_>     absolutely
  447. Sep 07 15:34:05 <mattheww_>     I mean one way “out” from this kind of mess is to just highlight great pieces
  448. Sep 07 15:34:09 *       SnaxBot|13196 (KiwiIRC@Rizon-506F3DC5.dc.cable.static.telemach.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  449. Sep 07 15:34:10 <mattheww_>     to encourage more like them
  450. Sep 07 15:34:13 <Albel> I think journos know what we mean by asking for transparency. "I had lunch with Rami" isn't needed; "I provided consultation for Rami" is.
  451. Sep 07 15:34:39 *       Chavez (~Chavez@C636BEA.D518BA6E.7081B02F.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  452. Sep 07 15:34:46 <mattheww_>     oh totally!
  453. Sep 07 15:35:09 <Albel> and to a degree, as we've seen with ZQ, parts of personal lives can intermix with professional lives and need to be addressed
  454. Sep 07 15:35:21 <Thidran>       Albel: You are welcome to continue this conversation with mattheww, but we're in the middle of an interview.
  455. Sep 07 15:35:26 *       SnaxBot|13196 has quit ()
  456. Sep 07 15:35:31 <Albel> sorry, just wanted to address his counter-q. I'm good
  457. Sep 07 15:35:32 <Thidran>       So if we could just wrap this up, you can continue talking with him afterward.
  458. Sep 07 15:35:34 *       RoyalFiddle (~RoyallyFi@Rizon-98373F0A.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  459. Sep 07 15:35:39 *       RoyalFiddle (~RoyallyFi@Rizon-98373F0A.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has left #burgersandfries
  460. Sep 07 15:35:42 <Thidran>       Thank you.
  461. Sep 07 15:35:54 <Thidran>       One last question from temet: "Do you feel you have a conflict of interest in Fez being nominated, since the IGF uses your software for the judging process, and you have an investment in Fez?"
  462. Sep 07 15:37:04 <mattheww_>     that’s a good question!  honestly it didn’t cross my mind until this morning
  463. Sep 07 15:37:29 <mattheww_>     the group that mentioned on the video was really early into fez’s development
  464. Sep 07 15:37:44 *       Drinky_Kraw has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  465. Sep 07 15:38:00 <EvilBob>       wait wait wait
  466. Sep 07 15:38:08 <mattheww_>     it was only part of fez’s history
  467. Sep 07 15:38:13 <EvilBob>       is this the other based matthew?
  468. Sep 07 15:38:20 <mattheww_>     other based?
  469. Sep 07 15:38:26 <Albel> EvilBob: this is Matthew from Indiefund
  470. Sep 07 15:38:27 <Albel> not from TFYC
  471. Sep 07 15:38:30 <EvilBob>       Oh well.
  472. Sep 07 15:38:31 <EvilBob>       Alright.
  473. Sep 07 15:38:35 <Thidran>       Bob: No.
  474. Sep 07 15:38:37 <EvilBob>       Shows how much I'm paying attention.
  475. Sep 07 15:38:56 *       SnaxBot|27876 (KiwiIRC@Rizon-9DEC8866.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  476. Sep 07 15:38:57 <Thidran>       Follow up question from Kapow: can you ask him how early?
  477. Sep 07 15:38:59 <mattheww_>     when fez submitted the 2nd time he wasn’t in contact with that group, which is a pretty vague way of explaining something that shouldn’t be hard to track down
  478. Sep 07 15:39:12 <mattheww_>     I guess I’ll use indie game: the movie as reference, which covers some of the details
  479. Sep 07 15:39:29 *       GoozmDoozm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  480. Sep 07 15:39:31 <mattheww_>     but he locks down new funding at some point in the film (his new business partner in the pax east scene), and that’s *after* this round
  481. Sep 07 15:39:47 <EvilBob>       Sorry, been warring on twitter for the past four hours.
  482. Sep 07 15:39:53 <Thidran>       Alright, so when was your round of funding?
  483. Sep 07 15:40:19 *       divnr (~ArstanNec@Rizon-60BA574D.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) has left #burgersandfries (Leaving)
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  486. Sep 07 15:40:34 <mattheww_>     it’s in the fez doxx, actually, which is where the names today came from
  487. Sep 07 15:40:38 *       ArstanNeckbeard (~ArstanNec@Rizon-60BA574D.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  488. Sep 07 15:40:39 *       LockeAndKey (~chatzilla@E65BF2E6:2BF1B0C8:909673C5:IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  489. Sep 07 15:40:50 *       Thidran nods.
  490. Sep 07 15:40:54 *       Atavist (~Atavist@get.busy.committee) has joined #burgersandfries
  491. Sep 07 15:40:55 *       Riker (~chatzilla@Rizon-56DB91DC.lightspeed.crmlin.sbcglobal.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  492. Sep 07 15:41:01 <mattheww_>     speaking off, doxxing someone like that is deplorable, and “disgruntled polytron employee” is bullshit when polytron is renaud and phil (and renaud is a saint)
  493. Sep 07 15:41:11 <mattheww_>     I don’t know, I can look it up, one sec
  494. Sep 07 15:41:18 *       AndChat|457281 has quit (Quit: Bye)
  495. Sep 07 15:41:32 <Albel> Some people say Phil doxxed himself. I have no idea, really.
  496. Sep 07 15:41:46 *       MahdDogg has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!)
  497. Sep 07 15:41:57 <Thidran>       Agreed mattheww: Whoever did it is a complete douchebag.
  498. Sep 07 15:42:01 <Albel> ^
  499. Sep 07 15:42:04 <mattheww_>     looks like 2009
  500. Sep 07 15:42:08 <Thidran>       Alright.
  501. Sep 07 15:42:16 *       io- has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  502. Sep 07 15:42:17 <mattheww_>     so I can speak personally about that, because that group of people is pretty wide
  503. Sep 07 15:42:55 *       DQN (~DQN@59CB9FB1.D16B7BB5.89FE9F33.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  504. Sep 07 15:42:57 <mattheww_>     I put $2,500 into fez from my company (which was 6 people at the time at $2k/month each, which is a pittance)
  505. Sep 07 15:43:07 <mattheww_>     but 6 person companies burn shitloads of money, it’s kind of crazy to be in that position
  506. Sep 07 15:43:10 <Thidran>       2,500 USD right?
  507. Sep 07 15:43:13 <mattheww_>     yes USD
  508. Sep 07 15:43:16 <Thidran>       Alright.
  509. Sep 07 15:43:24 <mattheww_>     but I believed in the idea of indies trying to bootstrap other indies financially to help out
  510. Sep 07 15:43:34 *       Taman_Shud has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  511. Sep 07 15:43:39 <mattheww_>     Fez eventually shipped (what, 2012?), and that money did come back, but for awhile I totally figured it wasn’t
  512. Sep 07 15:43:51 <mattheww_>     let’s assume IGF, by some miracle, adds a 30% boost to a game’s sales
  513. Sep 07 15:43:56 *       Zero_1343 (~Zero1343@Rizon-F20F2C70.range31-50.btcentralplus.com) has joined #burgersandfries
  514. Sep 07 15:44:08 <mattheww_>     in reality it’s probably literally nothing—the effect will help unknown games without buzz, and that wasn’t Fez in the slightest
  515. Sep 07 15:44:32 <mattheww_>     the notion that I would deliberately and consciously mainpulate a system (or even realize a thing and turn a blind eye) so I could get a 30% increase on $2.5k is pretty insulting to my personal integrity
  516. Sep 07 15:44:46 <mattheww_>     and yeah, everyone judges everyone else on their actions and themselves on their intentions and all
  517. Sep 07 15:44:58 <mattheww_>     (which everyone on earth should re-read like a thousand times)
  518. Sep 07 15:45:13 <mattheww_>     but no, as to the question, I don’t think it was a conflict of interest
  519. Sep 07 15:45:22 <mattheww_>     I would *totally* think it was a conflict of interest if I simply decided who the finalists were
  520. Sep 07 15:45:41 <mattheww_>     but as I covered earlier, even setting a game to +1000 votes in the software just means the jury would automatically see its name up for discussion
  521. Sep 07 15:45:42 <Thidran>       But you just handle the voting software, right?
  522. Sep 07 15:45:44 <mattheww_>     doesn’t actually make it a finalist
  523. Sep 07 15:45:45 *       Zero1343 (~Zero1343@Rizon-F20F2C70.range31-50.btcentralplus.com) has joined #burgersandfries
  524. Sep 07 15:46:06 <mattheww_>     the “8/10” number in the video was made-up nonsense (and totally wrong, Jonathan Blow and others in indie fund were never judges)
  525. Sep 07 15:46:14 *       Miruku has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  526. Sep 07 15:46:20 *       karuta (~karuta@goldaline.my.dear) has joined #burgersandfries
  527. Sep 07 15:46:51 <mattheww_>     to answer the question more broadly, yeah, indie stuff is pretty interconnected, and people do need to careful of conflict of interest stuff
  528. Sep 07 15:46:59 *       Thidran nods.
  529. Sep 07 15:47:06 <Thidran>       Because that area's a small world overall.
  530. Sep 07 15:47:15 *       penguinman (~penguin@3D6BEA94:F8CF9C08:439035BC:IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  531. Sep 07 15:47:16 *       LockeAndKey (~chatzilla@E65BF2E6:2BF1B0C8:909673C5:IP) has left #burgersandfries
  532. Sep 07 15:47:27 *       NumberThirteen (~chatzilla@E65BF2E6:2BF1B0C8:909673C5:IP) has joined #burgersandfries
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  536. Sep 07 15:48:12 *       temet notices matheww_ lives a city away from him
  537. Sep 07 15:48:12 *       #burgersandfries :Cannot send to channel
  538. Sep 07 15:48:27 *       Zero1343 has quit ()
  539. Sep 07 15:48:30 *       argusdusty (qwebirc@Rizon-FE15F5E1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  540. Sep 07 15:48:31 <Thidran>       Next question from Brotron: Has matthew experienced in some manner bullying from the cabal of judges or some sort of cliqueism type stuff?
  541. Sep 07 15:48:45 <mattheww_>     (I can almost hear the internet grumbling “bullshit…” under their breath, argh)
  542. Sep 07 15:48:57 *       Zero_1343 (~Zero1343@Rizon-F20F2C70.range31-50.btcentralplus.com) has joined #burgersandfries
  543. Sep 07 15:49:13 <mattheww_>     I haven’t, but I’m actually pretty removed from the process—I don’t vote on games, or participate in the jury mailing lists, etc
  544. Sep 07 15:49:19 *       NumberThirteen has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  545. Sep 07 15:49:34 <mattheww_>     as for clique stuff, I think trends play a part in IGF judging overall
  546. Sep 07 15:49:42 *       NumberThirteen (~chatzilla@E65BF2E6:2BF1B0C8:909673C5:IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  547. Sep 07 15:49:42 <mattheww_>     there isn’t any way to objectively measure anything in a game
  548. Sep 07 15:49:47 <Thidran>       Very true.
  549. Sep 07 15:49:51 <mattheww_>     a person plays a game, and then says what they think about that game (art/audio/etc)
  550. Sep 07 15:49:52 <Thidran>       Because it's a creative process.
  551. Sep 07 15:50:10 <mattheww_>     a block-style minecraft-a-like is going to get shot down by any visual art jury now
  552. Sep 07 15:50:18 <mattheww_>     doesn’t matter how well-executed it is
  553. Sep 07 15:50:52 *       ebola-chen is now known as ebola-chan
  554. Sep 07 15:50:57 <mattheww_>     and maybe things will wrap around, where some game appears to be a minecraft-a-like, and then uinfolds into some matrix-style fourth wall shit, and that becomes a neat thing not possible before it was just another art style
  555. Sep 07 15:50:57 <Thidran>       Because it has been done before, repeatedly.
  556. Sep 07 15:50:58 <mattheww_>     who knows
  557. Sep 07 15:51:11 <mattheww_>     but I think clique-wise those kinds of things influence IGF way more than actual who-knows-who cliques
  558. Sep 07 15:51:23 *       AdmiralSlug (~MegaSlug@Rizon-2932A20B.mq.edu.au) has joined #burgersandfries
  559. Sep 07 15:51:33 <mattheww_>     because anbody interested in innovation in games, or new art styles in games, etc, has all been seeing the same things on their feeds over the last yaer
  560. Sep 07 15:51:41 *       SnaxBot|99499 (KiwiIRC@7EB64AF0.64A7050D.CE56287A.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  561. Sep 07 15:51:41 *       Riker (~chatzilla@Rizon-56DB91DC.lightspeed.crmlin.sbcglobal.net) has left #burgersandfries
  562. Sep 07 15:51:45 *       Riker (~chatzilla@Rizon-56DB91DC.lightspeed.crmlin.sbcglobal.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  563. Sep 07 15:51:51 *       Arw has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  564. Sep 07 15:52:21 *       Thidran nods.
  565. Sep 07 15:52:23 *       SnaxBot|99499 has quit ()
  566. Sep 07 15:52:31 <EvilBob>       Notch's dev art runed cubes imo
  567. Sep 07 15:53:01 *       Neptune_ (Neptune@Planet.Neptune) has joined #burgersandfries
  568. Sep 07 15:53:05 *       ebola-chan is now known as ebola-chen
  569. Sep 07 15:53:12 *       Rupang (~Rupang@Rizon-7350F30C.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #burgersandfries
  570. Sep 07 15:53:25 *       InNOutChef (~InNOutChe@Rizon-64DBBEFB.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #burgersandfries
  571. Sep 07 15:53:25 *       GeorgeWashington gives channel operator status to InNOutChef
  572. Sep 07 15:53:27 *       Rupang has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  573. Sep 07 15:53:32 <InNOutChef>    Guys
  574. Sep 07 15:53:36 <Albel> so apparently the Polygon block list includes PorygonNews
  575. Sep 07 15:53:43 <Albel> wrong ch
  576. Sep 07 15:53:44 <InNOutChef>    The Escapist spoke to the hacker person known as "4 chan"
  577. Sep 07 15:53:45 <InNOutChef>    http://i.4cdn.org/v/1410129925224.jpg
  578. Sep 07 15:53:57 <Thidran>       Chef: Later, thanks.
  579. Sep 07 15:54:03 <Thidran>       Anyways...
  580. Sep 07 15:55:18 *       Tharena_ (Tharena@C20880F3.6F7A5C5C.40B6D0E9.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  581. Sep 07 15:55:20 <Thidran>       mattheww: hamplanet asks: No matter how baseless you think the claims of racketeering are, they are still extremely serious accusations, why are you in a public IRC? Why not get a laywer?
  582. Sep 07 15:55:23 *       ebola-chen is now known as Big_Guy
  583. Sep 07 15:55:43 *       Big_Guy is now known as For_You
  584. Sep 07 15:55:50 <mattheww_>     people are throwing that word around with zero idea of what it means
  585. Sep 07 15:55:54 *       For_You is now known as ebola-chen
  586. Sep 07 15:56:24 <mattheww_>     and honestly, using that word and then saying things like “we reached out <list of people>” without actually doing that is super rocky legal ground
  587. Sep 07 15:56:53 <Thidran>       True enough.
  588. Sep 07 15:56:53 *       hihihi_ has quit (Quit: Rizon webchat: http://qchat.rizon.net/)
  589. Sep 07 15:57:00 <mattheww_>     I guess the answer to that is: the notion that, even if absolutely true, this is racketeering is so hilarious to me that I feel it isn’t even a threat?  and I don’t say to start a fight from some position of corruption or whatever
  590. Sep 07 15:57:12 *       BwakaBwaka (~steenuil@Rizon-460F3A5C.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #burgersandfries
  591. Sep 07 15:57:20 <mattheww_>     I say that as a dude who mostly makes games—like, my today started off as worrying about how to move food around the aztec empire simulation in our game
  592. Sep 07 15:57:23 <Thidran>       Makes sense.
  593. Sep 07 15:57:36 *       QSGBird (~qsgbird@Rizon-D095FF30.res.wpi.net) has left #burgersandfries
  594. Sep 07 15:57:40 <mattheww_>     there’s this weird starting point with some of this stuff that you’re hunting some kind of corrupt cabal
  595. Sep 07 15:57:44 <mattheww_>     and not just normal people?
  596. Sep 07 15:57:45 *       Tharena has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  597. Sep 07 15:58:00 <Albel> That is a disconnect that some people need to dispel, yeah.
  598. Sep 07 15:58:05 <mattheww_>     the other answer is that the IGF has terms and conditions, like any contest, and they’re pretty wide-sweeping
  599. Sep 07 15:58:37 <mattheww_>     (also that finalists aren’t determined simply by software or whatever—it isn’t a corruptable system through technology, and I just wrote the technology)
  600. Sep 07 15:59:20 *       lemon (~chatzilla@desu.ka) has joined #burgersandfries
  601. Sep 07 15:59:22 <Thidran>       Okay, next question's from pace_maker: Is there a notable push to expand on interactive fiction?
  602. Sep 07 15:59:48 <mattheww_>     good question!  I actually don’t know much about the IF scene, it seems pretty rooted in academia?
  603. Sep 07 16:00:02 <mattheww_>     IGF added a “Narrative” category last year mid-stream to try to accomodate it, but isn’t specifically interactive fiction
  604. Sep 07 16:00:06 *       Thidran nods.
  605. Sep 07 16:00:09 <mattheww_>     could also be a game that tells some kind of amazing story through some other means
  606. Sep 07 16:00:25 *       ebola-chen is now known as ebola-ran
  607. Sep 07 16:00:37 <Thidran>       Well, if there is a "Narrative" category, why not include Visual Novels in there?
  608. Sep 07 16:00:43 <mattheww_>     kind of fascinating the strongest narrative games in AAA have become CoD things
  609. Sep 07 16:01:08 <mattheww_>     well, narrative was deliberately left open—it was kind of a punt to the jury that was assembled to hash that out on their mailing list
  610. Sep 07 16:01:12 <mattheww_>     those kinds of things happen a lot, actually
  611. Sep 07 16:01:16 <Thidran>       Ahh, I see.
  612. Sep 07 16:01:34 <mattheww_>     IGF dropped tech, but back when tech was around that jury constantly argued about whether tech meant “solid execution”, or “new innovation”, etc etc
  613. Sep 07 16:01:47 <mattheww_>     same sort of debate with art on execution-vs-idea
  614. Sep 07 16:01:56 <mattheww_>     (and these are the kinds of debates I would love to see gamers tune in on!)
  615. Sep 07 16:02:32 <Thidran>       Indeed, I have a keen interest in some of that actually.
  616. Sep 07 16:02:33 *       Flounder (~Flounder@EBF39466.A1D8F11E.1295013D.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
  617. Sep 07 16:04:17 <Thidran>       Just a moment, cleaning out another 40 PM boxes...
  618. Sep 07 16:04:20 *       Thidran mutters.
  619. Sep 07 16:04:33 <mattheww_>     I will quick empty/refill bladder
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