nonsense

Some thoughts that I wrote up a while ago:

Quote:
Most of you know that there are flaws in our current suspect system. It works, yeah, but it could be better. I've been reading stuff in policy review about the rating system on PO, the suspect process, nominations et cetera.

There are a few problems with the suspect process. The round starts, we have an extended period to test the metagame and assess suspects, then nominate to ascertain suspects to be voted on. There's a double standard though. A notable portion of the community jump at the chance to ban something, but if you ask them to bring something down from ubers, you're shot mid-sentence. This creates problems. If a Pokemon is banned conditionally (manaphy) it has next to no chance of seeing OU ever again. I'm glad that so many people embraced a manaphy retest last round, but I was (IIRC) the first, and one of the only people to mention it. If people were suggesting a drizzle ban, there should have been mentions to test manaphy, as its uber status was largely due to drizzle. There seems to be some unspoken rule that states "Once it's uber it stays."

This factor, along with the length and complexity of suspect rounds seems to make voting results a kind of set in stone ultimatum. "We'd better be damn sure that drizzle is broken before we ban it, because it'll never come back." "We can't test Ho-Oh in OU because once we do, it'll be too difficult to reban it."

What I'm saying is that there's no flexibility in the suspect system. It's too easy to ban things, and way too difficult to unban things. Once we make a tiering decision, that's it. You've probably seen me talking about what I call the uber stigma before. Once something is in the uber tier it's automatically deemed to be horribly overpowering, soul crushingly broken, and would rip the OU tier from it's very foundations if it were to be unleashed. If we had freedom and flexibility we could test anything. I'm talking about a suspect ladder. I think we had something similar to this back on shoddy; A separate testing ground we could use to make changes to the metagame without upsetting the balance. There are several things we could do with this. The drizzle debate still rages, but we can't quantify the effects that drizzle has on the metagame without removing it. If we banned drizzle on the suspect ladder we could note what changes and see it's actual influence, if the metagame thrives without it, if sand really is held in check by it ect. We could then make informed decisions whether to ban it based on proof.

We could also test ubers. It might seem like I'm haphazardly suggesting random stuff for no good reason. I'm not. I believe that some ubers have a shot in OU, and should be given a chance. Why do it though? Why bother? Because it's part of the suspect process. If a pokemon is too much for OU it should be tested and banned, not exiled by default. It should go without saying that this doesn't apply to every uber, but I'm doubtful about some of them. Arceus and mewtwo are almost certainly uber material, but stuff like ho-oh and zekrom aren't so clear cut.

Some of you may think that testing ubers is a waste of time because they're ubers. They're all obviously too powerful, any test would be a waste of time, and it would almost ceratainly be a month of aboslute hell that would render the game unplayable.

I understand that I'm on the bad side of the argument here. It's my job to convince all of you, but I can't do it without a test. The problem is that nobody wants a test because it's a commitment. At the moment, all we can do is theorymon and ban. This requires commitment, because that's just the nature of the system. Imagine this scenario:

Someone wants to ban tyranitar. There are several concerns though, like "is the problem tyranitar or sand?" or "we can't ban tyranitar because he checks so many other things that banning him would uproot the metagame." These problems exist because we can't test a tyranitar ban. We can't ban him from the suspect ladder and see what happens, see if we can actually ban him safely. We just have to decide whether to ban him. Then what? Do we ban him then wait for someone to realize that it was a bad choice, renominate him, drag our feet, and finally reinstate him? Do we ban him for a month only? There's always the danger that, once banned, it could generate arguments on either side, and draw out the process even further. Due to the uber stigma, people might not want to unban him even if it were necessary. How many times have you read stuff like "Blaziken was proven too strong for OU and had to be banned." People would inevitably start making claims like this. The community's perception of tyranitar would change if it were banned. Not the whole community, but enough to create problems. This is the commitment problem that I'm talking about. If we could break the uber stigma, it would lessen the impact of tiering decisions and make the community more open towards complex tests. I think that this kind of action is necessary to deal with drizzle. Because it's not a single pokemon or a single effect, it's too hard to pinpoint the problem and say "right, there's the problem, ban that." We need to test it inside and out in controlled conditions if we're going to take every aspect and possibility into consideration.

As for ubers, I believe that the following are viable candidates for an initial test:

Manaphy (with or without drizzle)
Reshiram
Zekrom

I should point out that reshiram and zekrom were never tested in OU when gen V began.
Basically, an action plan for drizzle that includes implementing a suspect ladder. This round seems to have slowed to a standstill. Noone's really discussing suspects at this point. What do you all think about drizzle at the moment?

As for Reshiram and Zekrom, I'll make a case for them below.

Firstly, Resh and Zek were never tested in OU. As far as I know, they weren't even discussed. I did some research and found these two threads:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79694

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81568

Neither were mentioned in either thread. It seems to me that everyone said "Box legends with 680BSTs, uber."

A pokemon should never be judged on base stats. These two deserve a fair test in OU to properly ascertain their tiering. I realize that arceus has never been tested in OU either, but we had little to no experience with resh and zek back then.

Thoughts on Zekrom:

How exactly is this thing uber? What the hell does it do?

Pros:

Reasonably bulky.
Quite powerful.
Dragon/Electric typing gives it good neutral coverage and some nice resistances.
Teravolt breaks through sturdy and multiscale.

Cons:

Barren movepool. Learns no physical ground or fighting moves, and only had focus blast on the special side. No fire moves either.
Slow.
Dragon, ice and ground weaknesses.
Walled by ferrothorn and excadrill.

Why exactly is it uber? Decent bulk with 150 attack? Bolt strike? It seems so mediocre on paper. Base 150 attack is nothing to write home about. We already have haxorus, who has an eqaully powerful outrage, mold breaker EQ to deal with steels, and access to swords dance and dragon dance. Offensively, haxorus outshines zekrom by miles.

Let's see how it performs in OU. I'll use this spread:

Zekrom @ Life orb
Nature: Lonely
136 Atk / 252 SpA / 120 Spe

Draco Meteor
Bolt Strike
Outrage
HP Fire

It's the standard attacker from the uber analysis with the HP EVs relegated to speed to hit 245.

Ferrothorn

Resists dragon and electric. Can leech seed stall and twave in return.

Bolt strike: 34% - 40%
Outrage: 32% - 38%
Draco Meteor: 25% - 30%
HP Fire: 69% - 81%

Tyranitar

Bandtar:

Zekrom uses:
Bolt Strike: 71% - 83%
Draco Meteor: 46% - 54%

Tyranitar uses:
Stone Edge: 76% - 90%
Crunch/Pursuit: 61% - 72%
Earthquake: OHKO

Scarftar:
Zekrom:
Bolt Strike: 84% - 99%
Draco Meteor: 54% - 64%

Tyranitar:
Stone Edge: 46% - 55%
Crunch/Pursuit: 37% - 44%
Earthquake: 62% - 73%

Scizor

Can't do much.

Politoed

Nope.

Gliscor

Draco Meteor: 67% - 79%
Outrage: 52% - 61%

Earthquake: 58% - 68%

Latios (Specs)

Zekrom:
Bolt Strike: 61% - 73%
Outrage: OHKO
Draco Meteor: OHKO

Latios:
Draco Meteor: 201% - 237%

Rotom-W (Standard)

Bolt Strike: OHKO
Draco Meteor: 98% - 116%

Excadrill (Adamant LO)
Outrage: 59% - 70%
Draco Meteor: 54% - 64%
HP Fire: 73% - 86%

+0 Earthquake: OHKO

Thundurus
Dragonite
Heatran
Jirachi
Reuniclus
Skarmory
Garchomp
Conkeldurr
Gengar
Jellicent
Starmie
Magnezone
Gyarados
Blissey
Haxorus
Terrakion
Volcarona
Infernape
Ninetales
Espeon
Forretress
Salamence
Vaporeon
Toxicroak
Landorus
Latias
Tentacruel
Breloom
Hydreigon
Celebi
Virizion
Deoxys-S
Bronzong
Metagross
Scrafty
Swampert
Mamoswine
Lucario
Cloyster
Hippowdon
Chandelure
Mienshao
Venusaur
Darmanitan
Machamp